Discussion Forum (Unnecessary Pap Smears: Part Two)

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion.

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog. (click on title or graphic to go to comments)

About forwomenseyesonly

Hi. My name is Sue and I am interested in promoting holistic and respectful health care.
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2,560 Responses to Discussion Forum (Unnecessary Pap Smears: Part Two)

  1. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Someone showed me something on Youtube today that was incredibly confronting, I’m not going to link it. It happened in Brazil, a young female policewoman is suspected of taking some money, her pants and underwear are forcibly removed by her male colleagues while other male policemen look on, she’s completely exposed. This happened in a police station so these men would have been her workmates. I think there might have been one female policeman involved as well.
    She did have money concealed in her underwear, but you have to wonder about a police force that thinks that’s an appropriate way to conduct a body search.

    I’ve heard some concerning things about Argentina and Brazil and they way they treat their women, for example:
    “Over the past few decades, most preventive campaigns for the early detection of cervical cancer in Argentina and Brazil have relied on the use of colposcopies and Pap tests as ‘routine procedures,’
    and this
    “The education department of Sao Paulo state requires female prospective teachers to undergo a pap smear to prove they are free of a variety of cancers, or to present a doctor’s statement verifying they have not been sexually active.
    Until recently, it also required women to have a colposcopy, a type of visual examination used to detect disease.”
    “The public management department for Sao Paulo said all tests ordered follow the standards and recommendation of the country’s health ministry for public servants as well as state law.
    In a statement, it also said other states and federal agencies had similar requirements.”
    – See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/world/sthamerica/2014/08/09/women-rally-in-brazil-over-pap-smear-testing.html#sthash.qIKs7AgS.dpuf

    Just shocking…it must be a frightening place to be a woman.

    • Alex says:

      Brazil is like that with law enforcement. Actually, they have a situation called “revista vexatoria” where they do shit to both women & kids. There’s lots of variations, but imposed nudity is included & this is in front of the kids as well as directed AT the kids. If you look up “Brazil strip searches” you’ll hit what I was talking about. Apparently, torture is something that’s entrenched in law enforcement from olden times & this is just something they do when left to their own devices.

  2. Chaste4life says:

    I actually believe that, although we are coerced into exams for the men’s sake, it is also partly some women’s fault (as far as healthcare workers). I think that many of these female healthcare workers fell for the lines about going to a gyno at 14, the idea that all women have to lose their virginities at 18 or something is “wrong” with them, etc. Nevertheless, this overlooks the fact that women by nature are modest until they are abused or otherwise emotionally damaged. I think these women go on to finally get married (although they innately do not feel that it is special when everyone else has already seen ‘everything’ before the husband), have several children (while exposed more than necessary), have their vaginas ripped apart more with unnecessary post-birth exams that use a speculum three times as wide as their already sore female parts, and they endure all of this for years. When these female healthcare workers with their damaged vaginas meet young virginal women that are educated and refusing unnecessary female exams, I think they become jealous that they were not informed and that they are already “damaged” while these young women have a chance a normal relationships and normal s_x lives the way that it was meant to be before these silly exams were invented. Because of this, they yell, manipulate, tell us we’re being irresponsible, and lie all to get us naked and on that table being ripped apart when what they really need is psychological help for their issues of being violated in the past through the female healthcare system and societies expectations.

    • Emily says:

      I agree chaste…I remember when I was just shy of 18 and taking abx for strep I developed an infection and when I refused to let the dr (middle aged, male, too eager for comfort) take a look the younger female nurse tried to get me to do it by saying “this is something all women do. You’ll have to do it at some point” and “Don’t worry. we won’t tell your parents you’re not a virgin.” I WAS a virgin! and I didn’t want the first time anyone touched me there to be some creepy dr shoving his hands and tools inside. I wanted it to be someone who loved me and cared about me. 2 1/2 years later I met my beloved eric and I truly feel that if I had allowed that to happen it would have felt different. I don’t think it would’ve been as wonderful and special.

      Even now people still try to convince me that it’s “responsible” and “Something all women do.” well most women don’t have a monogamous relationship with another former virgin. after doing some basic research and finding out appr 95% of cc is from HPV I did some math and calculated my odds of getting cc. it was 1 in about half a million. turns out you and I have the same chances of getting cc (or any STDs for that matter) and people call us crazy, stupid and irresponsible for not running off to the gyno so they can damage our bodies and minds on some crazy witch hunt for things that aren’t there. I pity the women who know nothing more than the lies theyve been told. We know better, don’t we dear ;)

      • bethkz says:

        Good for you, Emily! I’m glad you stuck by your guns, and did not allow something contrary to your alignment occur.

        Yes, there is a TINY probability of getting CC without HPV or intercourse. What they don’t tell you is that those cancers are the ones that PAP just plain cannot pick up. It wouldn’t do you any good in even that very rare case of CC.

        Moreover, as unsterile and outright dirty as most medical equipment is, unsanitary conditions for washing and (not) sterilizing between patients, and risks from the glove box and the improper conditions that gloves are used, there was some probability of getting nearly any STD AT that appointment. The problem would be to prove that it happened *there* and that you had not had a sexual encounter of some type outside the office.

  3. kleigh us says:

    What about men they can get/ spread disease too. Why is it differen? I have two uncels that had prostate cancer and one uncle who had a infection in his testecols. Why is it defrent for men?

  4. Mary says:

    This is for Elizabeth. Hi Elizabeth.
    I read today that they are going to have a look at all the Medicare payments and want to stop paying for unnecessary tests and procedures. Of course the doctors are going to fight this tooth and nail. Sussan Ley said “She wants to hear from health professionals and patients about any services, tests or procedures they have come across in the Medicare system that are unnecessary or unsafe.”
    I intend to email her. If you can too, so I don’t sound like a lone nutter, that would be great.


    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      Thanks, Mary, I’ve written to her before, but will do so again, so your letter will hopefully mean I’m not the lone nutter! I see “Four Corners” are looking at the billions wasted doing unnecessary tests and procedures too, it’s being aired tonight. They mention PSA testing but doubt they’ll have the guts to tackle pap testing/HPV testing or mammograms.
      Breast screening is highly controversial, we definitely should not be extending the program.
      Our new cervical screening program is excessive too, HPV testing at age 25 is a disaster and will catch a lot of young women, most likely sent for immediate colposcopy/biopsy and we’ll test far too often…AGAIN.
      It’s not rocket science, basic research confirms these points, there is no doubt in my mind the Govt has left these programs to vested interests. The many years of harmful excess with our cervical screening program and the long delay making any changes is mostly about vested interests jockeying for position, it has little to do with the evidence and what’s best for women.
      Hope all goes well with your studies too.

      • Alice (Australia) says:

        Elizabeth, you are so prompt and diligent! I was just about to post this link.
        “Many of us are receiving tests or treatments we don’t need, and some of these are harmful.”
        How long did it take them to figure it out?! People like you have been writing about it for years. Now it’s in the “news”.

      • Alice (Australia) says:

        That 4 Corners program discussed the research, which found that at least half of medical tests, procedures, prescribed medications and treatments are at least useless, and often harmful. They reiterated quite boldly that patients should always question every test or procedure their doctors recommends or sends them to. The 4 Corners’ advice was to always ask the doctors: what’s the evidence that this test/program/procedure/treatment/surgery is safe and beneficial?

        Now, what’s the evidence that pap tests and cervical screening program is safe and beneficial? None! There has never been a single controlled randomised trial that proved pap smears are safe, reliable and do more good than harm.

        Pap tests were invented nearly a century ago, because the science, technology and medicine didn’t know any better back then. Most tests and procedures of that age have been since retired or even banned. Yet pap smears survived, despite causing massive harm to women all over the world. Pap smears are cheap, easy for doctors to perform, they are a good excuse for the medical system to keep women under surveillance, and they lead to all sorts of money-making activities. A woman is trapped into a whirlpool of regular screening, colposcopies, treatments, follow ups, more screening, subsequent complications, surgeries, miscarriages, more treatments and more smears…

        4Corners didn’t dear to even mention the female screening. The same 4 Corners were brave enough to investigate massive police corruption back in 70s, and they made a huge difference for this country’s police accountability and trust. However, vested medical interests are too strong in Australia. Apparently, even stronger than criminal corruption and drug trafficking, because even 4 Corners were afraid to tackle it. Female health “care” is too political and too lucrative.

      • Teresa Lovejoy says:

        I too have written to Four Corners about how a group of rogue doctors deliberately fabricated I had cancer and forced me into a totally unnecessary radical hysterectomy at teaching hospital Monash Medical Centre. I did not learn until after I was butchered that this surgical racket has been rampant for well over a hundred years, but the whole corrupt system covers ups these insidious surgical mutilations against women here in Australia.. They are not interested in doing my story, or any stories told by patients who have been tricked or harmed following unnecessary surgeries they didn’t want or need in the first place…

    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      Did the Australians on this site watch ABCs “4 Corners” program on Monday night? Unnecessary tests and surgeries are costing us LOTS of money. You don’t say…
      There’s been a bit in the papers too, and as expected, the AMA have come out swinging, they refuse to work with anyone, we get outrage and obstruction, no co-operation at all, they refuse to work with midwives, pharmacists and anyone else they view as a threat to their market and profits. Whatever happened to proper care for patients? Ethical standards? First do no harm?

      I’ve sent something off to Sussan Ley, but the Review Panel doesn’t fill me with hope, some serious vested interests there. I’m sure they won’t touch women’s cancer screening, except perhaps, no cover for the routine CA125 blood test.

      If they want to save money, easy, take the Pill off script for a start, don’t extend the breast screening program, change the new cervical screening program to no HPV testing before 30 and then only 5 tests in total and offer HPV self-testing. I know they probably fear a real backlash if they exclude women under 30, some may ask why they’ve been having 2 yearly pap tests since they were 16 or so, good Q, and of course, all the young “survivors”. “I’d be dead if I didn’t have that pap test at 17!”…

      We kept testing (and over-screening) young women for a few reasons, one reason was to complete some research on Gardasil – they were comparing pap test records with vaccination records, of course, women did not consent to this research. So we carried on screening and over-screening knowing we’d harm a lot of young women, but the research came first and the great profits generated by all the false positive results. (that will continue with about 40% of those aged 25 to 29 testing HPV+)

      We also need to make sure women have access to balanced information on breast screening, then instead of focusing on the target, we could start winding it down, we know when women understand the risks and actual benefit, fewer want to screen.

      It still surprises me though the responses I get to my comments on many Australian sites, it says to me many women here have no idea there is a dark side to screening. UK & American women seem to have a better understanding, perhaps, that’s because our doctors and others have been silent for decades and this is the first time many of our women are hearing about over-screening, false positives and over-diagnosis/over-treatment.

      • Alice (Australia) says:

        Elizabeth, it’s too true, and too sad. But for as long as we have a bunch of criminal bureaucrats and paternalistic dinosaurs under the name of Australian Medical Association (AMA) ruling healthcare in this country, there will never be any proper care for patients, ethical standards, or “first do no harm”.

        And I’m not afraid using the word criminal, because anyone who knowingly causes harm by their actions to another person would be trialled in a criminal court in Australia. Anyone, except medical bureaucrats.

      • adawells says:


        I think it’s one huge public relations exercise to prepare the public for the “shocking” news that screening tests aren’t all they are cracked up to be. They are preparing them for the terrible news that all these tests are rubbish. The brainwashed and duped need to be let down slowly, or they’ll be a revolt. They want the sheeple to think “Hmm, maybe if that test doesn’t work….what about the others?”. I think they are trying to get the penny to drop in their own minds.

        In the Michael Mosley BBC programme he made a passing mention of cervical screening, but other than that, this was one test he conspicuously didn’t cover. Thank goodness Iona Heath was there to rip the breast screening programme to pieces, which was the best demolition job of mammography that has ever been aired to date, and there was no way she was getting up on the couch for the obligatory on-screen pap test favoured by the young bimbo quacks who’ll do anything to boost their TV careers!

  5. Si says:

    So not only are a lot of these procedures unnecessary, there’s also the risk of injury from medical mishaps. The dismissive attitude to her complaint is appalling and unfortunately consistent with how the medical profession treats women in general.

  6. kkk@yahoo.com says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11515870 “A young woman was badly burned and feared she may never have children after a horrifying medical blunder – and then offered a $50 fuel voucher by way of apology.

    The 21-year-old, whom the Herald on Sunday has agreed not to name, faced a costly and traumatic three-month recovery after the error during what was supposed to be a routine 15-minute procedure.”

    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      Completely avoidable damage, you don’t perform pap testing on 21 year old women to start with, “abnormal” results (false positives) are more likely in those under 30 and even more likely in those under 25. The procedure itself is bad enough, and then this happens, serious burns. This “simple” test so often leads to ugly and harmful places.
      Leave young women alone and even better, leave all HPV- women alone and that’s almost all of us. So many women are healthy and happy until this testing starts…

    • Alice (Australia) says:

      The most terrifying thing is that the patient probably told the quacks that it hurts, but they dismissed her complains, told her that the procedure is “painless” and must be done to save her life. Butchers!

    • Moo says:

      This is terrible. But remember that more than one woman was harmed.

      I used to work in a lab so I know that glacial acetic acid causes second degree burns when spilled on the skin. But any pharmacist in the world knows that glacial acetic acid when diluted to 5% is essentially normal distilled household vinegar. There is no reason to purchase reagent grade acetic acid and have it diluted by a pharmacist. It is only to add to costs. Some colpolscopy clinics just buy large jugs of food grade 5% distilled vinegar.

      This “accident” just shows how careless this clinic is. You have to wonder if they sanitize surfaces or even sterilize equipment when they get the vinegar wrong. I did hear of another case of a woman being damaged when a doctor mixed up cleaning solution from a spray bottle instead of vinegar in her vagina.

      • kat rehman says:

        The whole thing is bizarre. Who came up with the idea of painting solutions on cervixes anyway? It’s like a grotesque painting by numbers except this is women’s lives and dignity!

      • adawells says:

        Kat, thank you so much for adding your comments to the NHS site about helping patients decide whether screening is the right choice for them. Anne Mackie is director of screening services in the UK and it is remarkable that not only have our comments stayed up, but she has kindly replied to two of them. And on an NHS website too. Pete Taylor’s comments were excellent.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        I posted this on the NHS site:

        “I think informed consent is largely an academic exercise in women’s cancer screening and sometimes in practice, there is no consent at all. Coverage is the thing that matters and protecting the program. (not women) Take note of the language used in women’s cancer screening, “capturing” women, “non-compliant women” or “the unscreened” or “overdue” or “failed to attend” or “all women must” or “all women should”.
        I don’t see or hear anything that suggests we have a real choice about testing. Opportunistic screening is also openly encouraged with GPs rewarded for reaching screening targets. (but this potential conflict of interest is never mentioned to women)

        I don’t understand how the medical profession could possibly think this is an appropriate way to treat women, it says to me there are some serious issues and inappropriate attitudes within the profession. You don’t have the right to make screening decisions for us, to accept risk on our behalf and our bodies belong to us, not to the medical profession and these programs.

        Some women are ambushed in the consult room with a power dynamic that means some will unwillingly submit to the test, we might not care who looks at our sprained ankle, but a pap test is a very different matter. I also believe that predatory doctors have used this program to take advantage of women who enter their consult room for any reason, the lack of respect for consent and informed consent means these doctors can safely pressure or even coerce women into a pap test.
        I’m 57 and have never had a pap test. I did some early research and rejected them, but quickly found that, “no, thank you” was unacceptable, we were all just expected to screen and scolded and judged if we didn’t. There is an anger, an impatience with women who refuse to submit when directed to do so.
        I’ve listened to this program mislead women for decades, violate our legal rights and know many women who’ve been traumatized and harmed by this program. Some women now avoid all medical care because of past pap test/false positive/excess biopsy/over-treatment trauma or pap test pressure. Almost all of the damage was avoidable with an evidence-based program and informed consent.

        We see the same thing with breast screening, the same disrespectful and inappropriate attitudes and unethical practices. (I’ve declined to screen, an informed decision)

        When you have screening targets in place and when you reward GPs for reaching targets, when you dismiss informed consent (and even consent itself) this can’t be cancer screening, it’s medical abuse.
        I hope there is some justice one day for all the women abused by this program.
        Informed consent…it’s missing in women’s cancer screening programs. We might get lip service, but it’s business as usual at the surgery level. The language says it all, unscreened, non-compliant, overdue, should, must, necessary, failed to attend etc. etc.”

        Let’s see if it gets past the moderators.

      • Alice (Australia) says:

        Elizabeth, I often wonder how many women you saved from psychological trauma, severe problems in sexual life, butchered reproductive organs, miscarriages, pain, humiliation and depression… Just by letting them know the truth about the “life-saving” (actually, life-wrecking) pap smears, hidden agenda and vested interests withing the medical system. I bet no doctor in the world saved so many women trough his/her whole career!

  7. adawells says:


    Trial in UK finds that less than half of population took up offer of new bowel screening test offered at age 55. Plan is for UK national roll out to take place by 2018, and get 75% uptake by 2020.

    Seeing as this test is also for men, it would be interesting to see how the propaganda shapes up. I wonder what colour the ribbon will be? Brown?

    • Mint says:

      The same old story – a screening test gets rolled out, it’s invasive and the powers that be can’t understand why more people didn’t jump at the chance! The new trial sent out invitations – no informed consent, then there are plans to raise the uptake – informed consent anyone?

      I do like the idea of a brown ribbon.

      • adawells says:

        Yes, brown with red spots with a nice satiny sheen would be just the ticket.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        Yet they readily understood why so many men refused a digital rectal exam, I read so many times that a non-invasive test was required as soon as possible. Whenever pap testing was raised, “oh, well, women are used to these exams, they have them their entire lives and they go through pregnancy and childbirth”.
        Talk about a double standard, more to the point, men are viewed differently by the medical profession and they’d never dream of using coercion or other tactics to force men into screening. Our privacy, dignity, health and legal rights don’t matter, that was the take home message.
        Of course, PSA testing is highly controversial, there is no formal program and never will be and the DRE is not recommended either. Some doctors recommend these tests, others don’t, but at least men are aware it’s a controversial subject and that testing is entirely a matter for them…wouldn’t that be a nice change?

      • kat rehman says:

        So it’s a person’s right to decline or accept but they want to increase uptake and break down barriers (brainwash)! Cynical naughty kat

      • kat rehman says:

        Women probably have had more than enough invasive screening and are thinking oh god not again not up my backside this time! Hence more men this time?

    • kat rehman says:

      No worries adawells! I did leave another one but don’t think that got passed the moderator but 2 outta 3 ain’t bad!

      • kat rehman says:

        Let’s hope finally thanks to women like sue, Elizabeth adawells, Linda to name but a few that attitudes to screening are finally changing!

      • linda says:

        Thanks kat. I had a fab opportunity yesterday. I went into a 6th form were they were discussing smear tests. In one blow i have saved about twenty girls directly if not the entire 6th form as you know how they talk. I also taught some sociology. Was able to incorporate smear tests as an example of how we all follow the current thinking without questioning. It was a great day for those girls!

      • kat rehman says:

        Linda that’s amazing I only hope my girl (at uni now) has tutors like u)

    • kat rehman says:

      Elizabeth.. I love it!!

  8. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    As usual we’re rewriting history, what about the Dutch? I understand HPV self-testing will be available there under their new program. (that starts early next year)
    It also irks me the attitude that now HPV self-testing is an option for the never-screened or those way “overdue”, that there is no “excuse” we must all screen now.
    These people just don’t get it, screening is an option, not a law, whether they like it or not. I will never take part in any Australian program, I know what’s been going on for decades. I don’t trust these people, and don’t want to be part of any central register or my results being used in research or anything else.
    I’ll continue to decline…and I hope women who want to screen and would prefer self-testing demand immediate access or know they can buy a self-test kit online.

    • Alice says:

      Same here Elizabeth. I am and will continue opting out, declining, deregistering and deleting my personal data from everything I possible can. Pap crap registers, any other screening and mass butchering “programs”, eHealth, PCEHR, MyHR, whatever else our “caring” govt invents.

      These registers and databases cannot be trusted with one bit of our personal information. It will be immediately misused to the profit of the system, not to the benefit of the patient.

  9. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    The noose tightens…you can opt out, but if you test then your details go onto the register.
    I heard that GPs will be able to search the register to check whether their patients have screened, not sure about that, I’m trying to get to the detail. It will be interesting to see whether women have to register with a medical practice, that would concern me because it suggests they might get print-outs of the “overdue” and “unscreened” and women may face even more pressure to screen.

    • Alice says:

      I wish Australian government would stop wasting our tax money on there disgusting registers. Pressure, propaganda, invasion of privacy, surveillance and harm. Nothing else comes from there registers.

    • Alice (Australia) says:

      The register will provide an ongoing data feed to DoH’s enterprise data warehouse, which will be responsible for all strategic reporting to register stakeholders, except individuals. The PCEHR will be the mechanism that provides information to individuals.

      As usual: the whole enterprise gets all our personal data, except for us, the individuals. Instead, we will be forced to use the PCEHR privacy-invading behemoth.

    • linda says:

      Hi Eliz & Alice. I had no idea Aust is such a totalitarian state. Sounds like the gov is on the verge of making all these cancer tests compulsory. You have to do your part in making thus as hard for them as poss.

  10. Ozphoenix says:

    Hi guys!

    I haven’t posted for while but I still get comments sent to my email, which is a great way to keep up.

    I had to get some pathology tests done recently, and I noted on the pathology form (it’s Australian, NSW) that the cervical screening register is now ‘opt-out’!! What the?!?! Also very disappointing and disgusting to see that the pap test is highlighted right up the top of the form in big letters. Because as we all know, nothing about womens health is more important than the pap test (we’re all just walking cervixes, right?? Heart health, other organs, anything else – nah! Just the vajay-jay). Pretty disgusting.

    I tried calling the phone number provided on the cervical screening homepage to see if you can ‘opt-out’ over the phone, but surprise, surprise, you CANNOT call the number from your mobile phone, only a landline. Obviously smelling a big rat here… that must be why the webpage says you have to WRITE A LETTER to opt-out of the program (and do your parents/husband/boyfriend/partner have to sign it too?) if you missed the little ‘opt-out’ box (and it is absolutely tiny) on the pathology form.

    I have written the following complaint to the NSW cervical register. I expect the usual response about helping little girls not get cancer, or just no response at all. I do mean the bit about contacting Fair Trading NSW though. The program is a customer service after all – even if the program itself acts like a prison service and we’re all inmates.

    ‘Dear NSW Cervical Register,

    I have been reading that the register is now an ‘OPT-OFF’ register, instead of ‘OPT-IN’, thereby not allowing women the right (and privacy) to NOT be automatically included in a ‘program’.

    The webpage makes some rather startling admissions about the program and how women are treated.

    My concerns are this:

    Women are not being treated as mature adults who can be responsible for their own health – instead they have to be talked down to and rounded up into programs.

    The register is in NO WAY voluntary if women have to work out for themselves (or go trawling through the small speak on the webpage to get information) how not to be included in the program. They have to be alert and into the details to see the little ‘opt-out’ box on the pathology form. Most doctors would not tell women they can ‘opt-out’ – then they might actually, opt-out! Imagine that… The majority of women have no idea that cervical screening is voluntary at all. Why should they? The message has always been ‘must’, ‘should’ and in past cases, ‘have to’ (if you listen to most GP’s).

    The suggestion that women have to write a letter to be removed from the register is utterly preposterous. Do they also need their parents/boyfriend/husband to sign it as well and authuorise it?? Like naughty 5-year-old-schoolgirls? I tried calling the contact number with my mobile to confirm if merely calling will get you off the register but the number does not accept calls from mobile phones. Very strange when the majority of the population only has a mobile phone and not a landline anymore!

    It also says that the date-of-birth and test results will NOT be removed from the register. That is very high-handed and condescending. Again, women are not being treated as mature people with rights. The notion that you are keeping these details and you think you HAVE the right to keep them is ridiculous. As a scientist myself I can see why you would want to keep them, but it is completely ignoring basic human rights and requests for your own benefit (are you helping and respecting women or not? It does appear to be not!).

    There’s a very common thread here with this register that women apparently have to be told what to do, are not allowed to make requests about their own information, and have very little rights at all.

    I think a complaint to Fair Trading about the forced ‘opt-out’ procedure and wether you actually have the right to keep information on women when they request to opt-out (date-of-birth and test results) is the nest step. Because honestly, I find the actions of the register (and indeed, the cervical screening program) to be out of the middle ages, and condescending and insulting towards women.

    The women I talk to describe the cervical screening program and register as ‘pressure, propaganda, invasion of privacy, surveillance and harm’ – and I entirely agree…

    Thank you.’


    • Alice says:

      Thank you for the warning, and for making the complaint!
      Even more reason to check all the medical paperwork down to the last tiny detail. The sneaky system does not hesitate to tuck very important opt-out boxes in tiny font in the far corner. I just feel sorry for people who don’t have perfect vision or time to scan through the heaps of text.

      We all should be doing the same with the upcoming opt-out eHealth (PCEHR, MyHR, Australian electronic health records, piracy-invading monster, or whatever else the health dictators in the Australian government are going to rename it to). OPT OUT at all costs!!! We will never be told in advance what the govermnent is going to use our private information for, but one thing is guaranteed: once the information is in their database, it will never be deleted, even if they say it was. In the modern databases, the data is only marked as “deleted”, yet it remains in the database and can be accesses by those who run it, or hack it.

      It isn’t hard to foresee that our medical records data will be passed onto researchers for inventing new ways of cutting corners in the health care, onto medical bureocrats for developing new strategies of control and surveliance, onto screening registers for bombarding us with reminders and pressuring the non-compliant rebels into their “life-saving” programs. Whatever the use of our personal information is going to be, it will not be for our benefit. We already learned it from our “very successful” Pap test program.

      • Ozphoenix says:

        Hi Alice!

        Yes, I heard a while ago about the upcoming change to the eHealth records. The government is very upset that they’ve spent so much money on it, and the take-up rate for it has been rather glacial. Instead of addressing concerns about privacy, they keep pushing the convenience message – all your records in one place, the right hand and left hand know what they are doing, conflicting medicines won’t be prescribed, they’ll know our allergies, etc, etc. Not much of a peep about privacy or that the information won’t be used against us.

        I did go to a new doctor recently, and he seemed to know a lot more about me than what I had just told him. I think I’ll ask if somehow I’ve already been ‘opted-in’ and I have an active eHealth record. I am suspicious.

        I agree, opting out does not delete your current information, it just means the doctor can’t access it (I think we should take that promise with a grain of salt) and new information won’t be added into it, I think.

      • Alice says:

        Ozphoenix, they do promise (as much as we can trust Australian govt about medical records and privacy), that if we opt out from the very start, we won’t have a record at all, and no new data will be added to the database. That’s why it is important to keep an eye on Australian eHealth, and opt out ASAP, once the system is changed from opt-in to opt-out.

  11. Ozphoenix says:

    Oh, and just to add – making the cervical screening register ‘opt-out’ instead of ‘opt-in’ surely must have nothing to do with the falling screening rates due to informed women, could it? Nah…

    • Alex says:

      Well, it makes it kind of confrontational- that someone has to go & “deactivate” the sitaution in contrast to the other party. No offense, but men are usually more okay with that & other people use that.

      Maybe it helps for someone to be able to put words to it (or just a qualitative assessment & not necessarily needing words)?

  12. Ozphoenix says:

    Was pottering around on the internet when I came across this little gem on the Health Complaints Commissioner Tasmania website (for international people, Tasmania is a state of Australia) –

    “BreastScreen Tasmania Refusal to perform a mammogram in absence of consent to share information with AIHW”

    “A woman complained that she was denied a mammogram by BreastScreen Tasmania because she did not tick all the boxes in the consent for screening section of the registration form. She had not agreed to the release of her personal information to the Australian Institute of Health & Welfare (AIHW) and other organisations.
    She was aware that a refusal to provide personal information to other medical practitioners may result in her not being able to participate in the BreastScreen Program, but did not understand how a refusal to share information with AIHW would have any bearing on the quality and outcome of the service being provided. She was seeking a change in policy and procedure, and access to the service.
    BreastScreen advised that it receives funding from both the State and Commonwealth governments and that the provision of information to the AIHW is a requirement of the Commonwealth funding. They acknowledged that the consent for screening section of the form had led to a number of women believing that they could access the service without consenting to the release of this information and the form would be reviewed.
    Our Office asked BreastScreen to include a paragraph in its form explaining the funding arrangements and advising that in order to access the service, the patient / client is required to consent to information being released to other organisations for research purposes. This recommendation was adopted by BreastScreen.
    The woman subsequently indicated that she had another appointment with BreastScreen and had consented to all aspects of the consent section of the registration form enabling her to have a mammogram.”

    Glad to see this poor intelligent woman stood her ground for a little while, at least.

    As for Breastscreen, well, well, well, it ain’t all about helping women at all, is it now? Courtesy of a little ‘funding’ problem which means you freely hand over all the information of the women you call in for screening with all those lovely invitations, to anyone you feel like. Please note the sentence which says, “release of her personal information to the Australian Institute of Health & Welfare (AIHW) and OTHER organisations”. I wonder who the ‘other’ organisations are?

    I’m willing to bet that women going to Breastscreen have no flipping idea about any of this. It’s all been kept very quiet, I think. I’m also willing to bet that exactly the same thing happens with Papscreen. After all, why wouldn’t it? Selling information is profitable. Immoral and wrong, especially with very private, medical information, but profitable.

    How much more will it take to shatter the flowers and fairies view of cancer screening organisations? The caring, smiling photographs of women on their websites? The media releases
    carefully tailored to suck in women with the ‘we care about you!’ propaganda?

    Here’s the link to the website if you want to read more. Quite frankly, reading the other cases there makes for sobering reading. Neither doctors nor hospitals appear to be held to account for anything much. Read the complaint made by a woman that the medical clinic refused to call a ambulance for her dying husband stricken in the medical clinic carpark. The recommendation was that the clinic staff become ‘more flexible’ and ‘deal with an emergency in a more considerate way’. Yeah, use the words please, thank you and sorry when you refuse to call an ambulance because you don’t think it is appropriate when someone is dying a few metres away….

    • Alice says:

      The way Australian government is behaving, with it’s new mantra “everything is for sale”, I’m afraid, the “other organisations” will eventually include insurance companies.

      Insurance companies, especially the ones that provide life insurance, health insurance, loss of income insurance, accident insurance, car insurance and prepaid funeral, will be glad to pay enormous amount of money to get access to our medical records. Will the government resist the lucrative offer? I doubt it!

  13. jola says:

    Hello Everybody

    I’ve found the following article somewhere on the internet about 2 weeks ago, but it is not there any more. The webpage must have been removed for obvious reasons, which you’re going to find out when you read the article. I managed to copy the text and paste it in Word as I was looking for some information about immunisation.
    Here it is:



    Poland is a country situated in Central Europe. Yet, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Poland considerably differs from the vast majority of the other European countries and Russia in such an important and basic aspect of life as human rights. These human rights concern immunisations.

    Let us have a look at the vaccination policy IN POLAND. Every specified item below will purposefully contain  the repeated words: IN POLAND or POLAND in capital letters so that the reader can remember exactly where the inhumane practices take place. 

    IN POLAND, vaccines are given to newborn babies within the first 24 hours after their birth! These vaccines are against TABERCULOSIS and HEPATITIS B.

    IN POLAND, swabs from the ear, nose or throat are hardly ever taken during an infection of a disease, so the doctor does not  know exactly what kind of disease it is – viral, bacterial, parasitic or allergic.

    POLAND is the only country in Europe which has never ratified the European Bioethics Convention. What does it mean? There is an extremely important resolution in the European Bioethics Convention which says that human life and health are the superior values and under no cirumstances can they be subjected to the general well-being. It is IN POLAND that any new medicines and vaccines can be freely tested on people. Well, it can be said that POLAND is the experimental polygon of any pharmaceutical companies.

    In 16 European countries there is no compulsion of vaccinations. In 13 European countries and Russia as well there are compensations for the victims of unwanted vaccine side effects, whereas IN POLAND not only vaccines are compulsory, but also there are no compensations at all for the victims of unwanted vaccine side effects.

    IN POLAND, an institution called the Sanitary and Epidemiological Inspectorate (Pl. Sanepid) is the distributor of vaccines and their supervisor. IN POLAND, trainings for doctors and nurses are run by people cooperating with pharmaceutical companies.
    IN POLAND, a Mamber of Parliament Lidia Gądek who belongs to the Civic Platform Party (Pl. PO – Platforma Obywatelska), introduced a plan made by the mentioned party of including four additional vaccines in the compulsory immunisation calendar. These vaccines are against pneumococcus, meningococcus, chicken pox and the very controversial vaccine against HPV called Gardasil (IN POLAND also named Silgard being the anagram of the word Gardasil). The vaccine is said to be against cervical cancer, but it is becoming known more and more widely that the HPV vaccine is causing fatal side effects. IN POLAND, the Gardasil is to be for free. However, there is a reason for fear because, unfortunately, IN POLAND, when it comes to medical practices,”for free” means ”compulsory”. It is terrifying that POLAND as the first and only country in the world is introducing the controversial HPV vaccine as compulsory. The HPV vaccine has been strongly criticised and protested against in other coutries.  In France, many doctors filed a written petition against using the Gardasil vaccine (http://sanevax.org/french-petition-hpv-vaccines/), and in Japan the Department for Health withdrew their approval for the HPV vaccine (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/806645). It is appaling that the number of the HPV vaccine is still growing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gCVCP8BFrU  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5GquxhjDRY  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO2i-r39hok  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZbwSpf-sc

    Well, it looks like Polish girls are next in turn. IN POLAND, there exists the so called STOP NOP FOUNDATION (Pl. NOP – Niepożądane Odczyny Poszczepienne – Unwanted Side Effects of Vaccines). Every week, the organisation receives  a great number of reports from parents / carers of babies and teenagers as well as adults about serious side effects of vaccines (miscellaneous ones). The STOP NOP work very hard helping the harmed victims and their families with legal aspects concerning the procedures of side effects of vaccines. Nevertheless, the STOP NOP are not either respected or taken seriously at all by the Polish Government. In July 2015, when the STOP NOP representatives participated in the meeting of the National Health Committee of Health regarding the new vaccine regulations, they were not allowed to speak, though they had pass permits as the meeting participants! One of the MPs even questioned their presence in the meeting asking what they were doing there. It implies that the reports of as many as 17.000 parents who informed the STOP NOP about serious side effects of vaccines were totally ignored, just thrown away.
    One of the main associated members of the employers’ union IN POLAND is INFARMA. Infarma consists of 29 pharmaceutical companies. In such circumstances, lobbying and pressure for the new vaccine law to be passed are unavoidable. Furthermore, the INFARMA wants to secretly push through a law which will allow to introduce vaccines against influenza in regulations of workplaces IN POLAND. This law is going to be compulsory as well. IN POLAND, there are plans to vaccinate newborn babies against influenza. The issue of vaccinating pregnant women against influenza is being also considered, which is more and more often mentioned in advertisements and medical recommendations. However, there is no information in the influenza vaccine leaflets about any clinical research on the prenatal development. Nobody has done it so far and it looks like pregnant women are supposed to be medical guinea pigs. Unfortunately, this vaccine may cause a permanent damage of the foetus. It seems vital to mention, however, that 95% OF MEDICAL STAFF IN POLAND DO NOT GET VACCINATED! Well, if the 95% were immunised, the vaccination plan would be carried out, wouldn’t it?
    Let’s come back to the topic of the introduction of the HPV vaccine – Gardasil (also known as Silgard in Poland). When 11 and 12-year-old girls were vaccinated with Gardasil IN POLAND, a great number of their parents were not informed at all about the side effects of the vaccine! Even though parents have reported the side effects, often serious ones, they have been simply ignored by the medical staff. They simply hear from doctors that what has happened to their daughters has nothing in common with the vaccine!
    In Denmark, a great number of girls have been permanently harmed by the HPV vaccine.
    Similarly, 300 girls in Columbia experienced serious side effects of the same vaccine, where it caused paralysis and consciousness loss.
    IN POLAND, the same incidents take place, but THEY ARE NOT SPOKEN ABOUT! Once, a teacher from one of smaller junior high schools IN POLAND was horribly shocked to see that SEVERAL DOZENS of girls vaccinated against HPV fainted, lost consciousness and got seizures after returning to school. Before that, they had been fetched to a medical centre and given the HPV Gardasil vaccine. When the teacher wanted to call for an ambulance, the school headteacher infromed her that if she did this, she would be dismissed from work immediately! The whole incident was barefacedly camouflaged! Nobody got to know about this! There are lots of incidents IN POLAND in which GIRLS, WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS’ KNOWLEDGE, ARE TAKEN TO MEDICAL CENTRES AND VACCINATED WITH GARDASIL (THE HPV VACCINE)! To make matters worse, IN POLAND only 1% of doctors report side effects of any vaccines that children’s parents inform them about! Well, how come that IN POLAND, merely 1% of doctors act in accordance with the rules of the medical ethic? Polish girls are aimed to be medical guinea pigs on whom HPV Gardasil is being tested. Large numbers of girls all over the world who have been vaccinated with Gardasil, have been experiencing dramatic side effects, which mostly are: 
    -memory and concentration disorders
    -sleeping problems
    -changes in the sleep rhythm
    A great number of girls experience:
    -hypersensitivity to bright light and have blurred vision
    -dysponea during physical activity. The dysponea is combined with heart palpitation.
    -muscular fatigue which impedes walking
    The mascular fatigue experienced by the HPV vaccine victims is felt as if numbness of arms and legs, or as paralysed arms and shoulders as well as legs which makes it really impossible to walk.
    The next side effects of the Gardasil vaccine are:
    -nausea and stomachache
    -lots of girls suddenly experience a wide range of food allergy, which makes them change their diet.
    -large numbers of girls suffer from unintentional movements, muscle cramps especially in their hands and legs. Plenty of the girls report their muscles are weakened and many of them move on wheelchairs.

    More horrifying issue is that the HPV Gardasil vaccine is closely linked to premature menopause in girls and young women who experience lack of menstruation even as early as at the age of 16. Gardasil makes ovaries stop working. There is the evidence of the potential of the HPV vaccine to trigger a life-disabling autoimmune condition. How dreadful and distressing it must be for young women to face the fact that they will not be able to have children in the future. http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/studyhpv-vaccine-linked-to-premature-menopause-in-young-girls/
    Not only does Gardasil bring about serious health deterioration, but it also causes infertility. Can it be concluded that the specific HPV vaccine WAS PURPOSEFULLY (not unintentionally!) PRODUCED TO DEPOPULATE NATIONS (especially Slavic)?
    In spite of so many experienced, proven and testified dramatic side effects of the HPV vaccine (Gardasil) , THE POLISH GOVERNMENT VOTED FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF THE FATAL VACCINE. It seems important to mention that the vast majority of Members of Parliament IN POLAND voted for this controversial vaccine. Amongst 432 MPs, as many as 406 voted for the lethal HPV vaccine, 25 were against it, whereas only 1 MP abstained from the vote. To top it all, the Senate of the Republic of Poland  voted for it as well! Finally, the new President of POLAND, Andrzej Duda signed the new law, according to which the HPV vaccine (Gardasil) IS TO BE COMPULSORY IN POLAND FROM THE BEGINNING OF 2017.
    What can people IN POLAND who do not wish to immunise their children do now? It needs to be emphasised that they do not give their consent to vaccinating their children not because they simply do not wish to do so for some weird reasons. They do so for fear of very serious and often horrifying side effects that many children have been experiencing, or because their children have got side effects after being given previous vaccines. What can parents IN POLAND do when their daughters are fetched to medical centres, OFTEN SECRETLY, to be given an HPV jab? What can they expect in case they decline the vaccine? What will happen to them and their children if they decline the HPV Gardasil and other vaccines? They realise severe consequences of the TOTALITARIAN AND TOTALLY ROTTEN MEDICAL SYSTEM IN POLAND against which they have to fight. This is the ill system which charges them with huge amounts of money to pay for not having their child / children vaccinated.
    The medical practices IN POLAND can be undoubtedly described as absolutely inhumane. The question is when Polish parents, who live IN POLAND will have the legal right to decide about their children’s health and well-being. How is it possible that IN POLAND people are forced to undergo a medical procedure without their giving prior informed consent to having such a procedure done?!
    Despaired parents from POLAND.

    • Alex says:

      Hey, Jola. Poland was trying to mandate all kinds of mandatory probing for women that were looking to get jobs, too- if I remember a few of your posts correctly. It certainly sounds like Nazi occupation stained Poland’s style of doing things (although I’ve heard the Soviet era had some similarities).

      How are things otherwise? Are you getting slammed with the migrant stuff where you live? I remember thinking of you when I heard Poland’s reaction to all that, even though it seems you & there don’t mix so well on some issues.

      P.S.: I know it’s not the same country, but how does the Czech Republic compare? I remember you suggesting it to me way back & it still seems like a good place that I’m very keen on moving to. I’m still trying to tie up some things with citizenship & it seems that the Czechs might leave the EU over all this immigration/invasion bullshit (although I’ve heard you can get residency with quite a few countries if you buy property there- Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Latvia are the only ones I know, but it seems there are others).

  14. Megan says:

    I was at university in the early 90s and started to get some shoulder and neck pain every now and again. It happened for a couple of days and then went away for a week, then it came suddenly back for another day or so. It happened again a few weeks later and it was really bad for two days and I had to miss an essay deadline that was quite important.

    I went to see a uni doctor, who was a man probably in his 50s. He had me get down to my bra and knickers and felt my back and shoulders and stuff, then made me bend over in front of him while he felt my back and hips. Then he examined my hips while I stood up straight, and his hip exam seemingly included running his hands over my bum!!

    He said he didn’t know what the problem was and that I needed to see him again the next week. The prick wouldn’t give me a medical note until the second appointment, so I had to go back and strip down for him again. The pain actually didn’t come back, and he never figured out what it was, but he did give me the note.

    About a year later, a friend of mine went to see the same doctor with some tummy problems. She said he made her take off her top, trousers and knickers (so she was just in a bra). He felt her tummy, then had her put her hands up against the wall, with her legs apart, and did an internal exam from behind.

    An internal exam in that way?! I’m sure that my friend was an attractive netball player was just a coincidence!!

    We agreed that the guy was a grade-A creeper, and that we’d never see him again.

  15. Teresa Lovejoy says:

    If one single woman can be saved by my story, all this agony those criminal doctors inflicted on me for personal gain will not be in vain…. Knowledge is power, and here in Australia 2 in 5 women will have a hysterectomy by the time she is 65. Ninety per cent are unnecessary and can do far more harm than good. Fabricating cancer is one of the dirty tricks gynaecologists use to frighten healthy women into unnecessary hysterectomies. Gynaecologists get very, very rich doing unnecessary hysterectomies…

    Here are some comments to my story……

    ……..MY HORROR STORY…….
    I was one of those lucky women who never suffered any gynaecological problems in the 58 years I had my precious female organs. I trusted the female doctor who did my yearly Pap smear (which she insisted I have every year, despite never, ever having abnormal cells). I did not know she was in cahoots with corrupt gynaecologists looking for easy prey to use for greed and training material. She forced me into seeing a gynaecologist writing that I had post-menopausal bleeding, which was a blatant lie, as I NEVER had a single drop of blood since my menopause finished 5 1/2 years before. She would not take “NO” for an answer. She did everything to gain my trust, so I didn’t understand what was going on. She wore me down until I gave in. I went to the gynaecologist she referred me to so he could examine me, say I’m fine and send me home. I’d never seen him before in my life. As soon as I sat down, he opened the referral, and the first words out of his mouth was: “You have bleeding. I’m giving you a curette.” I was shocked. He didn’t ask me one single question, and he didn’t examine me. I said I had no bleeding, and I was not having a curette, but he would not take “NO” for an answer. He already had me booked in for a curette. I was not told that it is my choice. He manipulated and coerced me until I gave in. At the post-op appointment 2 weeks later, he said I had cancer and had to have a hysterectomy. He’d already sent the referral to MMC (a public hospital I had never been to before, and was not told Monash Medical Centre is a teaching hospital). I only went there to be examined, told I’m fine, and sent home. (moderated) in Gynaecology/oncology called me in after the waiting room was empty. He then mentioned the bleeding. I was so angry, I said: “Why do you people keep saying I had bleeding, when I hadn’t had a single drop since my menopause finished over 5 years ago, until I was given the curette and bled for 3 days”. He ignored me and told me he was going to take out my cervix, my uterus, my fallopian tubes, and my ovaries. And he was going to do it by laparoscopy, but still may have to cut me open.” Again I was shocked. I said: I have no bleeding, I have no pain, I have no symptoms whatsoever, and begged for another option.” He went berserk. His face was full of anger and contempt as he yelled at me: “YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION. YOU SHOULD CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY YOU DON’T HAVE TO HAVE CHEMOTHERAPY. NOT LIKE ALL THOSE WOMEN IN THE WAITING ROOM”, and he flicked his hand toward the empty waiting room and said: “THEY WEREN’T SO LUCKY”. I was shocked. He then answered every question I asked with: You’ll be fine, and insisted I go in, in 2 days. Then he shoved a piece of paper in front of me and pointed where to sign. He did not go through one thing written on that form. I asked him if he’d done laparoscopy surgery before, and he looked me in the eye and told me he’d done hundreds that he could do them with his eyes closed. A blatant lie. I did not know that after I left he added on the form he forced me to sign that he may take out some pelvic lymph nodes as well. He sprung that on me just before the surgery. To make a long story short. He mutilated 6 healthy organs from my body, and God knows how many lymph nodes, as that was covered-up. He botched it beyond repair leaving me wailing in agony every day and bleeding out since he butchered me in June 2005. The morning after he slaughtered my organs, he smugly told me that I was as clean as a whistle. That all my removed organs had been healthy. The whole system took his side and did everything to discredit me and spread the word I was paranoid. They denied that I was in any pain, and kept sending me to psychiatrists who just kept pushing drugs on me and telling me they found nothing wrong in the tests when I kept telling them how much pain I’m in. I’ve never in my life been touched by such evil. I was a victim of fraud, and criminal medical malpractice, and my health and my life has been destroyed by those evil doctors. Why aren’t women warned about these corrupt doctors who trick healthy women into unnecessary hysterectomies? This surgical racket has been going on for decades, and will never stop because as Dr (moderated) said: “The system is still geared to protecting doctors’ reputations rather than protecting patients from unnecessary harm”…

    DrSuarna Mehulic…. Dear June, I am in this difficult situation because I objected such charlatans and their treatment of patients. Your story is unfortunately not uncommon. I have seen it before and I have seen situation where when unethical and unprofessional doctors take all reproductive organs of the patient and cause chronic pain due to botched and unnecessary surgeries. After that is done their next step is to refer patient to psychiatrist. It is absurd reality that these unethical , unprofessional people always get away with everything wrong they do , because they make revenue for the institutions. Most likely you asked yourself lots of time ” why me” but I have to tell you that it is not only you. Only what I know for sure that until values such as honesty, accountability, humanity are surpassed by greediness, business oriented medicine , these issues will not get resolved. There were times when being physician was honored profession and being public servant was the most honored role in the society. I think values has been changed to most honored status of being rich instead. Possibly nationwide campaign to return these values to medicine is of uttermost importance in times to come !

    June Gardner…. Thank you so much for your compassion, and for the TRUTH, Dr Sue. I’ve been trying to tell women since it happened to me in June 2005, but nobody believes me. I berate myself every day, for being so stupid. Every fibre in my body told me they were wrong, and to RUN for my life, but before this happened, I had complete trust in that female doctor. She did everything to gain my trust, so every time she said I had something wrong, and manipulated and forced her will on me until she wore me down, I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt. My trust was so misplaced, but doctors are revered as the most trusted profession here, and I took that literally. I rarely got sick, so I was totally medically ignorant….THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! for believing my story. I prayed every day to find someone like you who isn’t afraid to blow the whistle on her own profession. God bless you Dr Sue. I’m crying, but it’s for joy that I found you.

    Garrick Sitongia Wow June, that’s really a great reply from DrSuarna.

    June Gardner It great to find an honest doctor who validated my story Garrick, and she lives in America. It would NEVER happen here in Australia, as the corrupt complaints depts. sided with the doctors who harmed me, and not only turned against me, but called me unrealistic, and wrote it was a matter of science and knowledge, that the doctors did no wrong, and I should be lucky they operated on me immediately as some women have to wait up to 9 months for elective hysterectomies. As you can see from my story, I was not told it was elective, and I was bullied and threatened into it. And what science and knowledge? All my removed organs had been healthy, and I was lied to, deceived, totally misled, misinformed, and hoodwinked into immediate surgery. The complaints depts. also said that I went looking medical intervention for bleeding, (a blatant lie) and they had the gall to say that all the agony I’m going through, and the non-stop bleeding caused by the surgery was common after a hysterectomy, and to go find a pain clinic. If that was the case, there would be millions of women worldwide, doubled over in agony, needing wheelchairs, or walking aids to get around.

    Janice Louise Patients need to learn not to give the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for sharing your story June.

    Elizabeth Eugenia LaBozetta June, from gleaning detail from your story there is no doubt in my mind that you were targeted for student surgery training and that you somehow fit the profile of someone they felt they could take full advantage of and get away with it. (as in NOT a “club” member who are protected from such flagrant human-rights abuses as long as they follow “club” rules to the letter) That God for honest doctors like Dr. Suarna who are not afraid to tell the truth. The real doctors.

    June Gardner You are so right Elizabeth. Thought you’d like to read these few paragraphs said by residents at a teaching hospital, from the chapter called: “Negotiating to do Surgery”… After a potential patient was located, she had to be persuaded to have surgery. As one resident put it: “You have to look for your surgical procedures; you have to go after patients. Because no one is crazy enough to come and say, hey, here I am, I want you to operate on me. You have to sometimes convince the patient that she is really sick, and that she is better off with a surgical procedure.”……”The residents’ tactics, based on high volume, were similar to that of any effective sales person, regardless of the product; that is, the greater the number of contacts, the greater the probability of making a sale. This type of high-turnover sale was especially suited to the high-volume, quick turnover conditions in the clinics and emergency room. Like any sophisticated salesperson, a resident could judge within minutes whether a woman was going to buy a hysterectomy. When it appeared that she wasn’t, he used another tactic. Residents believed that women would eventually accept surgery if they were given some time to think it over. Thus, after a resident had completed his pitch and the woman was still reluctant, he would tell her that he would call her in a week and discuss the surgery further. The woman was dismissed and the next prospective case was brought into the examining room. The entire interaction, including physical examination, usually took three or four minutes”….. “Once the woman agreed to surgery, she lost whatever power she previously had had – the power of refusal. The situation changed from one of negotiation to complete control by the resident. The patient was expected to trust the knowledge and wisdom of her doctor. She was not consulted on the form her surgery would take nor was it expected that she was capable of understanding medical-surgical mysteries. The resident, influenced by his own need for practice, decided what operation he would do. Women were not aware that there was a choice.”…..”Surgical teaching programs are having increasing difficulty finding subjects to learn on because they greatly depend on the availability of ward or indigent patients and with increased third-party payments, the number of such patients is shrinking. As a consequence, residents in many city hospitals have done more “selling.”…….” To improve my surgical technique and to get a chance to do some of the surgeries that we don’t get a chance to do otherwise, I went for radical surgery where your dissect out everything; you look for everything”…. “I do enjoy it, and think any doctor is lucky to do radical surgery”…..”It is by mistakes that you grow and mature as a physician. You learn not to do it again; I think that is important. Because if I wasn’t ever going to make any mistakes, there wouldn’t be any reason for me to spend four years being a resident”…..”I don’t know if you can call it a mistake or something that you aren’t experienced with and do something wrong. You can’t call it a mistake. It’s inexperience. If you aren’t taught something, you can’t do it.”….

    • linda says:

      I’m so sorry this happened to you Teresa. I can not imagine how awful things have been for you. This site and everyone here totally understands how you feel. I have fou d friendship here and help. I hope you do to. Please read all the articles and posts and draw strength from the feeling you are now free of doctors and will be in control of any consult from now on. Learn to heal yourself. Research on the internet any problems,diagnose yourself and get any medicines or preferablty herbs and natural remedies yourself. There is no reason why you ever need to visit a doctor ever again. These charlatans have not progressed since medieval times. Since the beginning of time these creeps have raped, butchered and mutilated, poisoned more patients than they have ever made well. Through history they gave probably killed millions but only genuinely thousands. What makes men and women trust these people I will never know. Why are they put on pedastals,trusted and worshipped?
      The Nhs murdered my dad and last year my best friend. They were never out of my dads bum pretending he had prostate cancer. When he died he went of heart failure , records show he never had cancer yet he spent 20 years of his life having treatment. They have women raped by the million with their outdated pap tests. Doctors and the medical profession disgust me. They are obsessed with bums, breasts,vaginas and cancer.

    • Alice says:

      Your story is horrifying. I hope you will recover and never see a predatory doctor again. Some doctors are too dangerous for our lives, and the medical system is covering it up!

      If you wish to help more women, you can leave comments on http://www.ratemds.com about each doctor or surgeon that you saw along that dreadful journey. Your comments may save so many lives.

    • Alex says:

      May I ask why you even went in for these things? I don’t get why you’d show up for surgery or anything else.

      Something about their tactics:
      At the end of the day, them saying “have to” only applies to the fact that an action has to be engaged in order to occur. I notice that a lot of people mentally connect it with dying as a knee-jerk reaction (since that’s what tends to happen if a need is not met).

      There’s also the concept of believing that what’s in front of you is real- a presumed honesty & accuracy from other people. Not necessarily a misplaced thing, since it IS pretty weird for people to lie for nothing, but there are those that try to use this against people.

      This presenting of information applies in other ways, as well. If they said that this is what you “will be having” or what they’re “going to be doing,” that’s PRESENTING that this is a fixed situation & there exists no capacity for reality to develop any other way. They are more or less saying: “I’m telling the truth, this situation can’t unfurl any other way.” Even though an action has to be engaged in order to occur & if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t occur.

    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      Welcome to the forum.
      Your account is horrifying, but you’re not alone, many women are put through unnecessary hysterectomies. I think the female body is viewed so disrespectfully by the medical profession that our reproductive organs are viewed as disposable, a business opportunity.
      I’ve heard a few doctors say over the years (not to me) “well, you’re not having children at your age or having more children, so you might as well get rid of it, it’s just a potential site for cancer “. Some women are told, “it’s better than years of heavy periods” etc. My SIL was given that line, she had a hysterectomy for fibroids, of course, they usually shrink after menopause and she was close to that age when she had the surgery.
      What bits of the male body should be removed just in case?

      It feels like a war is going on with competing vested interests vying for a slice of the action, look at the poor cervix, the warped focus of women’s healthcare, a cancer that affects fewer than 1% of women. The cervix is subject to medical surveillance for most of our lives, and the majority of women here end up having something “done” to their cervix.
      I’ve never viewed this as healthcare, it’s medical abuse. (I’m sure it’s viewed as great business by vested interests)

      I’m so sorry you were put through hell by the very people we’re supposed to trust. I’ve always viewed the medical profession as a threat, I stand guard over my asymptomatic body. Thank you for warning other women, I’m sure you’ll save other women from the same abuse/ordeal.

  16. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    “They are obsessed with bums, breasts, vaginas and cancer”
    I suppose it’s hardly surprising when initially the profession was almost entirely male, men drunk with power and treated like Gods, untouchable. How dare you complain, silly girl!
    I think the cancer bit is often just an excuse to get women on the table and in a vulnerable position. We don’t see the same attitudes and conduct directed at men, that would have been unthinkable to the profession and no fun at all. Controlling the Pill means controlling women, controlling childbirth, same thing etc. etc.

    It really is depressing to read the comments in the latest edition of “Australian Doctor”, the article is about the changes to the cervical screening program. (due to start in 2017)
    The ignorance is frightening, so many are concerned about pushing the first test to age 25, “it should be 18 at the latest”, they know girls who started having sex at 12 or 13, one makes the comment that he’s seen a few cases of CIN 1 and 2 in women under 25 (I bet he has, they’re called false positives!)

    One doctor makes the point that every 5 years means s/he won’t be able to do a full and regular exam including a breast exam….that says one thing to me – incompetence!
    Routine breast exams have not been recommended for years, I hope s/he explains that to her patient and gets express informed consent – if she has a personal belief in the exam, she needs to get express proper consent. I’ll bet she doesn’t…it’s not being thorough, you’re risking your patients health.
    I have to wonder whether some doctors just don’t want to give up breast exam if they feel like doing one, I’m sure some are relieved the new test is invasive and the only downside is the 5 yearly interval and the loss of really young women.
    Excess biopsies/procedures/surgery/over-treatment are no fun….the casual reach for the female body needs to stop, they wouldn’t do that to a male patient, and it shouldn’t happen to women either. For so long they’ve been able to do as they pleased, time to change that…excess carries risk.
    The Red Book for GPs makes clear routine breast exams are not recommended at any age, yet we have those who persist…more needs to be done, make it known that these exams are not recommended and carry risk so women know excess is not better. It shouldn’t be up to us, but it seems that’s the only way to change things, we can access HPV self-testing kits online, suddenly you can get them through your GP, (if you know about them) the screening rate continues to fall despite all the pressure and campaigns, so they’re finally changing the cervical screening program etc. This says to me that more women are making an informed decision NOT to screen, these campaigns don’t have an impact on informed women.

    I was disappointed to hear the Govt is going to spend $56M on another breast screening “awareness” campaign in an attempt to boost breast screening numbers. (which continue to fall, except I hear more women aged 70 to 74 are screening, so more over-diagnosis on the way) Sussan Ley (Minister for Health) wants to get rid of waste, yet she’s wasting money on an awareness campaign for a highly controversial program. The statement on the Govt website says that mortality from breast cancer has fallen by 37% (or something like that) since screening started, this is dishonest and they know it, most of that fall is about better treatments, not screening.
    The number of women who accept their “invitation” to screen will continue to fall and they can’t do a damn thing about it. Can you see why they’re desperate to keep the evidence from women, you can’t mislead, pressure, scare or confuse an informed woman.

    • Alice says:

      The reluctance and opposition of Australian medical circles’ to move to 5-yearly tests only proves that the useless and harmful pap smears and cervical cancer “program” has been (and still is) just an excuse for herding women (especially young ones) into doctor’s offices for medical and government surveillance of their reproductive organs.
      The government got the info on what’s happening in each woman’s vagina, and doctors got the money. Perfect!? Nobody cares that millions of women have been mutilated along the way.

    • ADM says:

      Men definitely do not get the same treatment as women in the medical system. There are no national prostate or testicular cancer screening programs despite prostate screening being the number one cancer among men and TC being about as common as CC. Any intimate exam to detect PC or TC is not recommended. According to the Canadian Cancer Society website “there is not enough evidence to recommend regular testicular exams”. Yet for CC it states that “all women who have been sexually active should have regular Pap tests by the time they are 21 years of age”. In Canada it is estimated that this year 1050 men will get TC and 1500 women will get CC. Once a man is done having children doctors don’t recommend removal of the testicles or prostrate to prevent cancer. It would never happen that a man goes to the Dr for a sore throat and gets hounded and unrelated medical treatment denied because his testicular exam isn’t up to date and he refuses to have one right then.

      • ADM says:

        Excellent article. What continues to frustrate me is that paps don’t get the same level of research and scrutiny. How many women have received unnecessary treatment and surgery because of false positives with a pap smear.

  17. Moo says:

    If you live in Ontario, Canada then there is some news. This recent bulletin http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/. . There is an exclusion code Q140A (please check) for pap test for “women who are not sexually active” along either those who have had a hysterectomy or getting treatment elsewhere for cervical disease. This might help a few women to get their doctor off their back.

    Also the quotas go in every September and April so I usually like to avoid going to see doctors for non urgent reasons in those months before since they get predatory on any women pushing paps showing up at clinics to fill their quotas.

  18. Alice (Australia) says:

    A very interesting article: Why most doctors would rather die than endure the pain of treatment they inflict on others

    The article is 3.5 years old, yet nothing changed. And is unlikely to change. Medicine is a big business, processing patients like inanimate objects, with minimum time and maximum profit. Unless the patient does their own research, questions every “recommendation”, insists on making their own decisions, and makes sure their wishes are not ignored, there is very little chance to benefit from any treatment or procedure. The medical system will continue to do what’s best in its interests, not ours.

    The article is about terminal illnesses, but the medical attitudes are the same as in the rest of health care: patients are not told the truth, not given the option to make an informed decision.

    “While we give care to patients, the vast majority of doctors I know would not want this for themselves. Yet this fact has long been taboo in the medical world.”

    “We also need to get much more frank about what is medically possible and what is not. But that is very difficult when our health service’s ability to achieve things is so often used in Parliament by ministers and MPs to make political points.”

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