Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.

1,524 comments

  1. Beth I totally agree. I’m fuming now because I needed an appoint urgently but had to wait ages as the only available appointments were with Dr Smear Test who hijacks my time with smear pressure. Finally had appointment with someone else signed off work on the spot going for xray tomorrow with suspected neck and shoulder nerve damage! So how could a smear have helped that?? Blergg

    • Yes. They claim that there is a doctor shortage and nursing shortage, and people have to wait a long time for urgent appointments, but they find all of this time for the pap crap and associated pressure for that and other screenings. Even when you get an appointment for an urgent matter, it’s hijacked with pap crap (whether you give in or not), then a second wait for the “urgent” matter – which has often cleared up by then or it’s gotten severe enough to send you to the hospital.

      Oh, but if there was only a way these people could be persuaded to see a doctor for an urgent matter before it became an emergency….

      In the US, it’s all good, because it all costs money payable to the physician’s group, hospital, and physician.

    • Kat, I’ve only just picked up on your comments. It’s a worry that in spite of the NHS being so strapped for cash, there’s nothing stopping the screening juggernaut, aka preventive healthcare, which is Matt Hancock’s pet project. I largely think it is because this arm of medicine is highly marketable, and has been largely privatised already, especially in London, although always under the NHS logo. I’ve noticed a lot of hospitals offering evening drop-in services, as well as some GP surgeries.

  2. Beth it’s not good is it? I’m just praying there’s no lasting damage with my neck and shoulder. It’s horrendously painful. Bit what’s scarier is the women who manage illnesses like asthma and diabetes themselves with drugs from the Internet because they can’t face the pap crap

    • I hope your neck and shoulder recover fully and SOON. I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. 😦

      It has crossed my mind to “manage” my diabetes and hypothyroid on my own. I don’t trust most of the online pharmacies – which actually broker their sales through the Philippines, often with counterfeit drugs originating in China or other countries with no protections for such things as patents. I understand some people have had good results from some of them though.Eating boiled chicken necks would get me some thyroid hormone, and I would have to eat MUCH less to keep my blood sugar in check without medications.

      Honestly – should anyone have to choose being triggered through a year or periodic flashbacks as the “price” to get medical treatment for an actual condition for that year – only to be repeated the next year. Especially when I have “access” through a government-funded program? Even if I accept that my risk for coming up with CC this year is 0.0056%, whereas being retriggered on rape/sexual abuse has an 8% rate for successful suicide…. hmmm, let me think.

      Do you think for one second that I’m going to even consider the notion of colposcopy/”punch biopsy” (tearing off hunks of my cervix (with clitoral nerves, no less! and without anesthesia) or “cone biopsy” (with even more risks, including to pelvic and vagus nerves!)

      Holding my medical treatment hostage to “agreeing” to such, or even implying that, is not much different than holding a knife to someone’s throat, and demanding sexual access implying they will slit her throat if they don’t. The second situation is considered a violent act, and although someone could theoretically say, “No sex for you. Go ahead and stab me!”, it’s hardly “consent”. It’s rape. It’s also rape when it’s done via pure coercion (you will permit me to penetrate your vagina and/or anus or I’ll refuse to treat you for life-limiting conditions). If a plumber refused me their professional services unless I offered myself to them sexually, that too would be rape, even though I won’t die from broken plumbing. What gives doctors a pass on this?

      • Know this. I take my copy of the Trovagene Urine Based HPV test I completed in 2015 which is 93% accurate vs pap at 50%. I give that to my doctor proving I’m “clean” and so is my husband. I have not been challenged into having a pap. It’s not even discussed. I recently consulted with an MD out of town and on first visit didn’t challenge me either.
        Second, take a printout of the Delphi Screener and offer to do that instead.
        Third, via TRUSCREEN FAQ I got a printout of their ad. It shows a pic of the device and a statement under which says, “Pap tests are subjective and vary significantly–only giving approximately 50% accuracy.
        After that?

        Confront them with the lack of Full Informed Consent for them not informing you of the above.

        Offer to take one of the alternatives.

        Go to youtube videos or to a Medical Library and download what is said re “felt pain” during pap, and especially during colposcopies. Inform doc that the “patient friendly” brushes for colposcopy have hidden among the nylon bristles steel and/or brass bristles. Tell them that IF you do have HPV it’s a guarantee that using invasive instruments on you will force an infection which you won’t be able to fight off.

        Would you clean off a scraped knee with a popsicle stick? That’s unsterilized to boot?

        Confront them re pain. Your cervix is much like the head on a penis. The nerves connect to S2 and above. That means the cervix is extremely innervated and does feel and transmit pain. Make Dr perform a nerve block. If he refuses then make a giant fuss. Why give in?

        If you prove the test is only 50% accurate then you prove the doc has nothing to stand on. And that for a test that exposes you to worse (if virus is present the scrape puts it there to stay as said which can also be looked up).

        Explain that you won’t consent to the horrible pain of having your cervix ripped to pieces. Take your sig other along for support. Do not give in.

        Do not buy into the bullying lecture that “you’ll die IF…” It’s bullshit. Certainly if there was a terrible threat there would be a “real” test not the bogus pap.

        Let me know how it goes.

      • Yes. In SouthernCA.
        You may credit my husband for this. Been married 31yrs. He pretty much demanded to go with me to my then-pap exam the second year we were dating.
        So I decided to take him on threat he’d likely break up with me later on. He wanted me to go to his doctors with him as well as going with me. Reason? He felt patients needed an advocate to help deal with the doctor’s BS and that also as a “witness.” And to prevent molest when we’re undressed.
        So I took him. I had Kaiser back then.
        The physician assistant, male, I had that day asked a LOT of inappropriate questions. He kept going on as to whether we invited or had multiple partners. I mean, he asked and repeated the same specific questions about both men and women. Until finally my future hubby asked “We said we’re monogamous. What don’t you understand about that?” Then the questions stopped.
        The exam was ok. He actually warmed up the plastic speculum at the sink first.
        But very creepy.
        It’s because of that, and that fact that his ex-best friend from high school (father baptist preacher) has become a pervert anesthesiologist now practicing in VA. That guy gets off on naked “trimmed” red heads. He married one. His first marriage however, bombed as she (another doctor in AL) cheated.
        When he stayed with us during his residency he had sex with a neighbor. She began complaining about his lack of talent and even said, “…he did nothing.”
        When my husband tried talking to him re sex he refused to listen.
        Imagine that; a doctor who knows all about anatomy but cannot get a woman to orgasm if his life depended upon it… Like a teen who builds his own car but never learns to drive.
        This guy lied to us about nearly everything we ever asked him. Especially about the pap exam.
        My husband got me the hell away from him too.
        We should thank the ex best friend. In some strange way, he got my husband to research pap and other medical things.
        It is how I got to use the Trovagene Urine Based HPV exam. And my husband ordered my doctor then to order it for me.
        This site has been extremely helpful to us.
        It’s a pleasure to share what helped us.
        WE MUST STOP THE ABUSE!
        Look up what we say. Understand it. Print it (edited by moderator)

      • I’ve told and shown my (female) doc that paps are less than 50% accurate. She just huffed and disagreed, and said, “They are VERY accurate”. She also disagreed that they were painful. My last one 23 years ago was very painful, because those nitwits first stuck the speculum in my urethra (stretched and damaged from some extreme catheterization), then the same morons couldn’t find my cervix! Anyway, in the last appointment with my “regular” doc, in a few minutes, she accepted my firm “NO” and went on.

        Last year, I had the doc switched out with <1 day notice with a male doc because "she's still not back from maternity leave". There was no amount of anything that could get this doc off of "I need to (do all of these things) and give you a pap test RIGHT NOW, implying strongly that I would not get treatment for diabetes if I refused. I still refused, and I got my prescriptions for the diabetes needs. Now I'm due again… or no diabetes treatment. 😦 He wasted the appointment time so I couldn't talk about something that could be a real problem.

        This time, I am going to confront her (or whoever I get this time) with information that they are not "very accurate" (and be prepared that it's "something on the internet" when it comes from a recognized medical journal, plus I am not going to consent to having my cervix ripped apart – and I expect even harder insistence that I have that if or when it's positive.

        My SO and I accompany one another to (almost) all medical appointments – partly to help remember what was said, partly to keep from having something sprung on us without our consent.

        BTW, I said "almost" because very occasionally one of us will have an appointment without the other. Most recently, it was an appointment with my dental hygienist, and he was sick with something flu-like, which I'd gotten over. She was surprised to see me alone, but at the same time, I don't expect her to do anything untoward. Had that been a medical appointment, I would have cancelled saying *I* was sick.

      • How can your female doctor presume to know how a pap feels for you and others? The arrogance. They tell themselves what they want to believe to justify their unconscionable behavior, i.e. not caring about the patient’s pain or consent and putting screening targets first.

      • @Rose2: “How can your female doctor presume to know how a pap feels for you and others?”

        My.mom.had a UTI last year,and when she went to the doctor, the female doctor she didn’t believe my mom. knew where the pain was. She wanted to know how mom knew she had a UTI, mom said it was because of where the pain is, then sneered that shed be the judge, then was stunned that yes,the pain was exactly where my.mom.said it was.

        She also was fascinated aged by things my mom read on the internet about how UTIs work, as it turns out she knows very little about them.

        Disappeared battery of tests on my.mom because apparently being a fidgeter is an indication of a myriad of Very Bad Things ToFear, plus a hysterectomy due to her age. My mom…will not be doing any of that and was disgusted at the opportunism.

      • I’ve had a lot of dismissive doctors and nurses. I’ve had a few good ones along the way.

        Most of them, so it seems, seem to think that people cannot feel their own body. I’ve had a nurse roughly rip out a catheter, and when I complained, “That does not hurt! You have no nerves down there!” I’ve had the same thing said about my cervix (as Kinsey claimed 70 years ago). I was told that I could not feel a tear in my rectum, but I got the doc to humor me and examine it, and yes, sure enough. Then I got a lecture about anal sex! (That wasn’t the cause, and the damage caused by anal sex was not done with my consent.) That doesn’t seem to matter either. I’ve had catheters installed when I was in an operating room for emergency surgery after I’d refused it, then traumatically removed. The records were evidently scrubbed to get rid of the catheterization, as they didn’t want to pay for the repair… but I never got it dealt with by a doctor – I couldn’t face the thought – but eventually got it to heal with kegels and a stainless-steel barbell to provide resistance for kegel exercises.

        My MIL has a wild theory, that the more I see and hear appears to be correct: Medical personnel come from another planet, and that alien race has no feeling anywhere inside their bodies. I cannot take this wild theory seriously, but just how much does reading and studying falsehoods that “there are no nerves” take away from a person being able to actually FEEL anything? Especially when there are genuine articles written by neurologists and physiologists describing where and how nerves are, what they do, and how they work.

        When I read about how some women go through what is described as “birth rape”, it seems clear that they have utterly no empathy.

  3. Cat and Mouse I think it’s general wear and tear as I do an active physical job and I’m mid 50’s bit doc noticed my shaking hans and twitching finger…
    It’s really painful too.
    I’m a trade union Rep and after kicking off at work they made modification which will help too. We just have a really toxic sickness absence policy. Literally told your an inconvenience and you can’t have any more time off for x amount of time. Problem is there’s always tons going round in a school lol!!

    • Do you live in US? Or Canada or UK?
      Have you heard of chronic regional pain syndrome or Reflex Sympathetic Sympathetic Syndrome?
      I have that. In 1997 I got to a very good pain doctor who Dx’d it and then pointed us toward lots of literature.
      Do not ever take antidepressants nor shit like gabapenten. The latter short circuits your nervous system. The first has a black box warning against violence. The first two weeks on or off your propensity to attack self or others is very high. You’ll either find religion or a long prison sentence. All the mass murderers here who later had “lights on but nobody home” mug shots were on these. Makes me wonder what Liberal therapists did to point them in the bad direction. Prophecy? Well, the migrant hassles certainly are. I could go on…
      It’s a miracle, truly, gift from God that I was diagnosed properly and that we also got out of the pap mess.
      I have a book re fibromyalgia and chronic pain. it covers RSD as well. I just loaned it out but will get the name and post it here. I agree with everything in the book except antidepressants, BS meds like gabapenten, and in heavy use of NSIDS.
      Problem with new DEA narcotic dosing? Chronic pain sufferers get same doses as those just injured. No more no exceptions. Seriously, I’d like to make everybody at DEA suffer what I have for one hour. That’s all the men could endure. Then let’s see their attitude. I was rated at 1:40,000 addiction potential.
      Why didn’t I have problems? Why didn’t I abuse? Because I had the right doctor who believed me—and most of all—I was prescribed brand name meds. Not the generic BS that doesn’t work!!
      Generics are supposed to be 90-105% of brand spec for all categories. How it dissolves, how long it works, how well it relieves pain.
      I can tell you from experiences that these generics, especially those by Mellonkropdt Pharma, are pure placebo junk!! I need a shoulder total joint replacement plus knee TJR. My pain is proven, documented over years by multiple doctors, and very real. Generics don’t work. They don’t relieve pain more than 50% and they don’t last more than 5 hours instead 8-12 as advertised.
      Pain effects the brain. If you’re never out of pain, you are never able to rest. You are in constant inflammatory state. So is it such a surprise that people take more meds? And then labeled freaks and addicts…
      Order your doctor to perform a “prior authorization” to try and get you brand meds.
      If you have Kaiser get the hell away from it. Before they kill you. After all, you cost those self centered docs their yearly bonus’. My pleasure in life would be subjecting doctors to pain and then giving them generic meds while denying their symptoms. Let’s see how they deal with it…
      Get off meat. If the animal has a bad day and secrets stress hormones..well that’s what you’re eating.
      Organic milk with DHA algal oil.
      Flood your body with omega-3 oils like hemp, coconut, avocado, grape seed, or canola. The oils must be cold pressed and cold processed. No solvent extraction. This will serve to reduce inflammation internally. Reduce sugar intake. The body under stress hogs sugar. BTW we use that oil on everything. We drink it. My cholesterol is 129 and I’m 75 pounds overweight.
      Get on medical marijuana. Do not smoke. Vaporize it. Research flowers. Pulsar makes good cheap vaporizers. Ooze has the Draught; cheap works very well and we love it. Great factory support. Avoid Pax. Pax=expensive pain in the ass. DaVinci is ok but costly.
      Those on MM usually require 50% less narcotics. I cut my needs 80%. My pain doc now approves.
      MM helps migraines, pain, sleep, and even getting stuff done during the day. Know your strains.
      Ooze sells scales so you can make your own cannaoil too. Do not use butter unless grass fed/organic.
      Vegetarians and vegans live longer and have better sex lives.
      Use Endoca CBD/CBDa oil. Begin with 3 drops morning and evening plus when you need more. Then taper after a month to what you need. This $100 investment for 30ml is the best thing you can do. Use this and you won’t need so much narcotic.
      Marijuana flower is wonderful. Research it through Leafly, Allbud, and Maryjane etc. I wish I’d gotten on it earlier.
      You can go online and find the strains that might work for you. Then go out and buy them; try them. If they smell good to your nose they’ll probably work well. And MM is great for sex too. Especially edibles. Protabs (brand) are very effective.
      Did you know MM (THCv) helps you lose weight?
      Get back to me.
      PS My husband is writing this for me. I’m pretty screwed up. He is my caregiver.
      Costco sells a food-based vitamin. Be sure to have Vit C, calcium, magnesium, zinc. Taurine will help energy. Soy lecithin, DHA algal oil for brain (look them up)! L-lysine for tissue regeneration. L-argenine for sex and heart (believe me…oh you will both “arrive” not just come). And I believe in HRT so long as you have progesterone to oppose estrogen. And you include testosterone. How is your thyroid? TSH is not a good indicator if you still have symptoms. Beware of Epstein-Barr Virus. Hytrin (terazozin Sandoz brand generic ONLY) works as vasodilator which helps your hands keep warm and helps pain. Cadista brand is useless. If your pharmacy won’t order you a brand that works contact their district manager and have a talk. Walmart used to be a good pharmacy but now only stocks cheap shit; refusing to stock anything that’s useful.
      Did you know law enforcement and pharmacists see brand name meds as having more street value? What does that tell you?

  4. Lots to think about Cat and Mouse. I’m in the UK. I’ll do some reading up on all this! I’m very very picky aleady re: prescription drugs and recently lowered my dangerously high BP myself via diet and exercise alone.
    I lover this site so many women from all over just getting together and supporting each other!!

  5. Smear tests have been blamed for a lot but I just read a piece in the Daily Mirror a 61 yr old woman is up in arms the NHS won’t pay £1000 a month for hemp suppositories to help her. She has chronic genital arousal syndrome ( she keeps having orgasms in everyday life when not having sex?) And blames a botched smear test for this. …

    • I looked up the functions of the pudendal nerve, it’s functions, and what happens when it is damaged. Chronic genital arousal may be one thing, but more common is genital anesthesia (you no longer feel your genitalia), as well as incontinence.

      There are other nerves in that general area which are more commonly damaged by such follow-on tests as LEEP or LEETZ. Pelvic, vagus, and hypogastric. These all have various functions, including feeling your feelings, regulating your heart and breathing, immune system function, and inflamation.

      No, it seems there is no end to the damage caused by this vile tests.See https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2017.01452/full for more details.

      If someone were penetrating you with some sort of sexual toy, and they did it roughly and/or without lube, you would demand they stop. Rarely is someone damaged in this way – even with some extreme BDSM practices. Yet, the medics do this in a rough enough manner, not paying attention to screams or damands to STOP such that these nerves are damaged with some regularity.

      Pulling off parts of my cervix, with approximately the same number of nerve endings as are in the end of an intact male penis, and without anesthesia, is an absolute hard no.

    • Thanks for this: Professor Archie Cochrane wrote: ‘I remember giving a lecture in Cardiff on screening in 1967 into which I introduced the (as I thought) innocuous phrase “I know of no hard evidence, at present, that cervical smears are effective”. To my surprise I was pilloried in the local Welsh press, who quoted many anonymous colleagues who thought me a “dangerous heretic” and I received many abusive letters, some from colleagues.’ Cochrane (1972): 26–7; see also Bryder (2008); note 44. For a review of screening procedures, see Cochrane and Holland (1971); Wilson et al. (1971); Macgregor and Teper (1974)

Leave a Reply to NewDoc Cancel reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.