Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.

2,428 comments

  1. Sorry it’s me again , haven’t been sleeping too well lately so I’ve been up all night watching the news, the BBC says it understands the Covid jab is to be made compulsory in England for all care home staff, we know that this carries the risk of blood clots and has been determined to be the cause of death in some cases, so my question is if their autonomy is taken away , and they are FORCED to take the jab which results in a death , which minister or ministers will be facing the charge of manslaughter.

    • Hear in the states, we are being bribed with winning money. They want more people vaccinated. A lot of people don’t trust it. They are trying to make unvaccinated feel targeted. Like telling them they have to be excluded in certain activities. I don’t think people are listening tho.

      • Heck, I’ve been targeted for having the audacity to wait for the protein subunit vax that should release by the end of the year! And continuing to mask/distance though I’ll do that even after being vaxxed because I’ve read enough to know its too soon to stop. Apparently, it’s not enough for some folks to get vaxxed, it has to be mRNA or go to Hell antivaxxer,and if you’re vaxxed you damn well better drop the mask or else how will they know who to assault?

        When you’re enraged that someone is choosing a different vax than the experimental mRNA, it doesn’t make you a responsible pro-vaxxer, it makes you an mRNA stan.

        It makes me think of those pro-gyn, pro-pap folks who consider self-hpv tests to be exactly as bad as not being screened at all, because it’s not about a supposed “concern for health” its about pap fandom.

      • It’s just been announced in UK care home staff will be forced to have vaccine or lose their jobs and they are looking at making it mandatory for NHS workers too, and making them have the flu vaccine too! I can see a lot of legal challenges! I had my 1st AZ jab, but declined the second one as I’m not convinced it’s safe. I do get the flu vaccine. I do wonder what will next be made mandatory… smears maybe??

    • Different posters hold divergent views about the Covid vaccine and previous discussions about it got a little heated. Rather than potentially causing hard feelings among friends, I wonder if it would be best to stick with the main purpose of this board – to discuss the lack of transparency, honesty and informed consent in women’s healthcare and to educate, enlighten and empower each other to advocate for ourselves in a medical setting.

  2. Hi Judy,
    You’re absolutely right that the Covid issue should not be incorporated into our own agenda, every individual has their own opinion and right to self govern where the vaccine is concerned, I think what the others mean is that if the government can bypass the individual choice of bodily autonomy and the human rights act section 8 to achieve their goals
    With this enforced proposal ,what other procedures could also be enforced in the name of healthcare by them ,and surely that does concern us and our agenda if we are complacent with this issue , we may all end up in the stirrups by law.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules- yes, of course and the concern about possible threats to individual liberties and bodily autonomy is very understandable. But anyhow, to follow my own advice on discussion topics – ovarian cancer has been in the news this week. Apparently, Christiane Amanpour, the CNN international news anchor was recently diagnosed with it. She said she went public “as a shoutout to early detection.” She also urged women to “get as many regular screenings and scans as you can.” Which sounds all warm and fuzzy until you realize there IS no early detection test for ovarian cancer. It’s surprising that a journalist of her stature could spread such misinformation. I wish her well and realize she may be emotional in the face of a devastating diagnosis and not thinking clearly. But she’s doing women a disservice to lead them into believing any screening or scan routinely leads to diagnosis of ovarian cancer in its early stages. Rather, as we all know, these tests are more likely to harm than to help.

      • It is amazing to me that people who make full information about such screenings have to include “this is not medical.advice, please do more research and discuss with your doctor” and emphasise it so it can’t be missed, but this kind of ignorant deal is allowed to be reported and promoted with zero disclaimers at all, even though our side is merely offering well-documented facts that are usually omitted from official discussions while this is baseless nonsense she is pulling out of her rear. Why are you at risk of lawsuit for telling people to do their own research and get fully informed before accepting a medical exam, but not at risk for telling people to get a medical exam to prevent a cancer it doesn’t even test for?

        So telling people the well-documented but un-reported cons to compliment the overly advertised and exaggerated pros of a medical test needs a careful disclaimer, but telling people to get thorough genital exams to prevent ovarian cancer despite there being no test in existence for ovarian cancer is just fine as-is?

  3. Has anyone UK noticed that this year there’s less in the press about cervical hysteria week? Daily fail would usually have printed a couple articles by now raising awareness!? Nada so far! Not that I’m complaining!

  4. Hi kat,
    Don’t forget pro screeners have just gotten their arse kicked for one of their latest promotional slogans, and they maybe at a loss as to which direction to go now as in the past they relied heavily on ridicule,I suppose it would be too much to ask , for truthful disclosure on test accuracy, information on false negative or false positive findings and the treatments and after effects of these, proberly not . So I’m just waiting for the next infantile and scolding attempt by them to round up the herd, it’s almost pitiful (NOT). Hugs Jules x.

  5. Hi Judy,
    Sad news about Christiane Amanpour, but what surprises me most is her total lack of understanding, by anyone’s standard she couldn’t be described as dumb, she was well educated achieving good grades at school and going on to gain a degree in journalism from Rhode Island university, she’s gone on to jetting all around the world reporting in war torn world conflicts and becoming a news anchor person with her own news programme.
    At 63 years old she has probably had considerable life experiences, so why has she been so naive over her illness it just doesn’t make sense. The only answer I can think of is that she has been misled by the medical profession, by going for regular checks women have been led to believe this checks for every vaginal disease under the sun ,when in truth it only detects cell changes on the cervix and even then it’s far from being 100% . Surely with this being a high profile case and her going public with it , why has no medical establishment has come forward to correct her and pointed out to this present day there is no test for ovarian cancer. It simply comes down to a lack of information released by the medical profession they are reluctant to do this as more women will leave their testing programmes if the truth becomes readily available

    • My heart is just wrenched when I hear if any woman’s cancer story. I winder how much pain and worry Christian Amanpour had before she finally got a diagnosis of ovarian cancer. Consider Fran Drescher who had a struggle of two years to get doctors to finally diagnose her uterine cancer. Just so tragic.

    • It’s interesting because the medical establishment has occasionally publicly corrected celebrities who give inaccurate information – i.e., that early detection of breast cancer is always lifesaving when in reality 25%-30% of these cancers, even if found by mammogram, eventually metastasize. Perhaps in the case of Ms. Amanpour its more difficult because she hasn’t disclosed any specifics about her case (like stage, etc. – though it was likely discovered late stage as the vast majority of these cancers are). For all anyone knows, she was having her much-touted regular screenings and scans and was the one in a gazillion who got extraordinarily lucky and her cancer was found early this way. But that would be an extremely rare case and she would still be irresponsible for spouting this wildly inaccurate information.

  6. Hi ladies,
    Just come across a report from 2017 and wondered if anybody else had seen it. In an observational study by the Keck School of medicine usc, found that the use of iud’s led to a decrease of cervical cancer in approximately 30% of the study participants which involved 12,000 women, the lead professor a dr Victoria Cortessis phd said the findings were astounding although there is no clear indication why this is, it is the belief that the body responds to the introduction of the iud as a foreign body and reacts by increasing the immune system in that area, and in turn eradicating the hpv virus if present. Just wondered if anyone has any further info on this.
    Love Helper x.

    • HPV reduced? If woman has hpv already, and especially if it’s in the endocervical canal, then inserting an iud would spread hpv further.

  7. Hi ladies,
    Just been on Jo’s tosh and things might be looking up, they have always liked passing the begging bowl round , but times must be especially hard at the moment, as when you check out their donation section they are asking for
    £16.00 , £30.00 or £50.00 , off their followers, looks like times are a bit grim for them at the minute
    ( where’s the chianti) lol.
    Hugs Jules x..

  8. Hi ladies,
    In Scotland the screening programme has come in for criticism for the exclusion of 430 women from smears who had , had sub-total hysterectomies over the past 24 years, which has led to the death of one of them from cervical cancer.
    The women’s health minister
    Maree Todd acknowledged the failure and apologised to the women involved, and condolences to the family of the deceased woman, the remaining women have been fast tracked for appointments with hospitals and gp’s , the Scottish government has provided funding to Jo’s tosh to give support and advice to women who may of been affected, after cervical awareness week, this incident is most certainly not the best way to promote their programme, if they must impose this dreadful test on women they should at least get it
    f..cling right. My heartfelt sympathy goes out to this women’s family.
    and an increased hatred to this profession.
    Hugs Jules x.

  9. Hey everyone. So, I’ve been doing lots and lots of reading and research on pregnancy and unassisted childbirth, specifically on the “Women Against Stirrups” website, which led to many other sources I was able to get my information from. My eyes have been wide open to, whenever my time comes, wanting more and more to give birth completely unassisted at home instead of at a hospital. First off, I already know that even during pregnancy, the pap tests (aka the medical rape tests) are completely unnecessary and are sometimes the primary causes of miscarriages (omg who knew?? *sarcasm*). Second, the fact that pregnancy and childbirth are treated as one of the most serious medical emergencies is just outrageous. Seriously? One of the most natural of things in the entire world that humans and all other species of animals have been doing since the beginning of time, is an emergency situation and when not done with 50 doctors and nurses intervening the entire time it’s “risky” and “dangerous”?
    I have learned that through my reading, the primary cause of labor pains being as intense as they are, is intervention and lack of privacy. The cervix is basically a sphincter, like one in the anus. It does NOT respond well to commands like “push” and “just relax.” It doesn’t respond well either to eyes gazing in that area, and that is why the uterus and cervix tenses and tightens up so much more than it should. Even if you “trust” the doctor or midwife, your body tells you “I am NOT comfortable with this.” There are MUCH fewer risks of complications during pregnancy and birth if you just let your body do its thing and do it all on your own. Women back in the day and even other animals would completely isolate themselves and do their laboring and birthing within a matter of 2 hours, wash themselves off and their newborn baby, and come back and resume their normal life. Because of no intervention, their births were relatively painless and effortless, which in turn won’t cause them to tear!
    With all this amazing and informative information I’ve read, I’ve decided that whenever my time comes, whenever my husband and I decide to have kids, that I’ll be birthing at home, unassisted. I only have a few questions, however. What if I experience some complications in the middle of the pregnancy, or will it be less likely that I’ll experience complications with the unborn baby when I don’t go in for exams? Because of course, I know there can be like premature heart problems or other defects, when not taken care of, that can be very dangerous and possibly fatal to the mother. If the fetus dies and I have a miscarriage, would I just have to run to the bathroom and let the sac come out or something? I would love to hear all your guys’ input and knowledge on this subject. Sorry if there are a lot of questions lol and sorry this post is so long, but I appreciate if any of you took the time to read. Also, would I be able to go to non-transvaginal ultrasounds without the pressure of getting any pelvic exam done? (Probably not lol)

    • Hey Anonymous! I don’t know which country your in, but I read an article in a UK magazine about non medicalised birth. Here in UK it’s perfectly legal to refuse some or all pregnancy care, including scans and ultrasounds. It’s also legal to give birth at home with no midwife or medical ppl around. I guess the cons of no care is that you could end up with a prolapsed cord or low lying placenta which could cause problems. I wrote a birth plan, 25 years ago, I had all my scans , but requested a minimum of internals and didn’t want my waters artificially broken. My daughter was also overdue, and I didn’t want to be induced; she was still moving fine, and I went regularly to hospital for monitoring, she came when she was ready! Let us know what happens with you!!

      • Hi Kat, I’m in the US and unfortunately it’s legally required to have a midwife or doula or something if you’re doing a home birth… however my mother is a doula so I can easily have her be my doula and I know she’ll definitely respect any of my requests. However I’m wondering if I would be able to like, not tell my doctor when I get pregnant, and no one in the medical field has to know until after they’re born lol, would that be possible or is that “too risky” for the baby or myself? Or maybe, I can just go in for ultrasounds and let them know that my mom will be my doula and everything’s good??? Sorry, a hundred more questions haha.
        Also, I hate the idea of inducing labor! Seriously, so what if they’re not due EXACTLY on their due date??? They’ll come out when they’re ready! Birth being so medicalized is just beyond me… it’s 100% natural, not a medical emergency.
        Anyway, I’d love to hear more input. I think my only other concern really is maintaining a healthy weight, because I’m a little underweight, and I hear that I’d be at risk for a premature birth. I’m 5’7 and weigh around 115lbs; super high metabolism lol. Really the only way I can gain weight is by lifting weights. Cardio won’t do much, so I need to actually lift and eat a ton more protein.

      • If you’re forced to induce, it’s so painful you’ll never want to birth again.

  10. Hi anonymous, Reading your post, you are already going in the right direction by researching, the female body is amazing, and reproduction is a natural process, when you decide to have children, be wary of medical intervention remember it’s your body your decision and they can’t do a thing without your concent, when I arrived at this site I was clueless, now I say “bring it on”.

    • Hi Anonymous: again, I think it boils down to the law in your country: legally there you have to be attended at birth, what rules apply to pregnancy?? I have read things are tightening up in the USA all round with abortion and fetid rights? Here as said we can refuse any or all care and don’t have to be attended! I agree 100% with all your comments about birth being medicalised but being so natural, I remember being shocked when I was pregnant for 1 st and only time 25 years ago I was classed as an older 1st time mum at just 32!?

  11. Hi ladies, it seems that Matt Hancock is in deep trouble for being exposed as an adulterer, and breaching social distancing rules, let me guess , would it of been by two metres and six inches maybe, no doubt he will be replaced , hopefully by someone who is more sympathetic to scientific studies, and reasoning.
    Love Helper x.

    • Hi Helper yes another slime ball gone! I wish the whole bloody lot would go! As someone who endured sexual harassment for years in my last job I was really upset about Boris rape comments last week, and can only imagine how rape survivors felt!! I still remember Demonic Cummins as I call him driving to a beauty spot to test his eyesight! Now Matt cock it up Hancock (in more ways than one) has gone too!

  12. https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2021/215/8/self-collection-cervical-screening-renewed-national-cervical-screening-program

    HPV self-testing still so slow in coming, which this Australian paper puts down to a complete lack of awareness, not only amongst women, but also amongst GPs. Even after becoming available since 2017, they still don’t appear to know about it. It is sad that they are still doing these pilots, when other countries have reported on self-swabbing as being much preferred to the violating invasive test. They report only 57% uptake of cervical screening in Australia, (much of that under pressure, no doubt), but don’t seem to think that this shows an overwhelming lack of acceptability of the invasive test. Yet they do all this research into whether women would find swabbing themselves in private an acceptable experience.

  13. Hi adawells,
    My take on this, is that the powers that be have designed the self test programme for HPV to fail from the onset, if they were truly serious about implementing it , there would of been a massive public advertising campaign, with all the relevant information being on radio , tv , newspapers, women’s magazines, leaflets through doors, they might have the impression that if it’s kept low key and uptake is low they can say that it was introduced but because of lack of interest ,they are reverting back to the old method, as we all know they hate relinquishing their “power” over women, keeping us in the dark and feeding us misinformation has always been the rule of the day.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • The ideal “self-test” is the Delphi Screener. This is the only “passive collection” test in existence. Meaning although you do insert it into the vagina, it doesn’t physically harm nor disturb the cervix.
      Like the Trovagene test; but that’s based on urine. So both are passive but different in how each is utilized.
      The other self test kits all involve some sort of “swabbing” the cervix.
      This, as I’ve said, disturbs the mucus covering the cervix.
      If you’ve got the virus, the last thing you want is to possibly scratch or message the virus into the tissues. That mucus is there for a reason. It’s to protect. And lubricate.
      So yes, the self tests selected are set to fail.
      Because no doubt these will spread the virus around the cervix.
      Business has changed somewhat, but it’s still business as usual.
      Please take this info to your healthcare HQ and ask them to comment. I’d love to know…

  14. So Seeker will have a series about women’s health and why its so limited. This opener gave a promising start by decrying bikini medicine, but is it my imagination or does it go on to promote bikini medicine in part?

    Thought I’d send this out to my pro-choice-in-health-care sisters to see what you think and to heads-up for the future of this new show. If they go off the rails into pro-bikini medicine while pretending to oppose it, I’m sure they’ll get some good pushback!

    • Hi Demonhype,
      Any open discussions on female healthcare is welcome , bringing this topic to the masses so more awareness is available is fantastic, as long as it’s non biased and all sides have their chance to air their opinions .
      Hugs Jules x.

      • Hi Jules!

        I get it, I’m just hoping its not, like, an attempt to co-opt gyn-critical language and terms for the industry propaganda machine. Seen that happen a scary lot of times in.other contexts. So the “isn’t it just terrible how women’s health only focuses on bikini areas to the exclusion of everything else, now lets focus on the bikini areas” makes me a bit apprehensive.

  15. Hi ladies,
    A report on sky news today has said that tens of thousands of women across the uk that have received the Covid vaccine have had significant changes from the normal in their cycles.
    This must be down to the fact that it has an effect on the hormonal balance of women, how come this has only just been disclosed when approximately 65% of the country has been vaccinated, and what other side effects will come to light in the future, as usual we are being kept in the dark and fed propaganda
    (Sound familiar) .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • This article is not accurate.
      Thr tenaculum is not a clamp or clamping device.
      It’s a single pointed “claw” like appearing device. With a handle for the doctor to grip and manipulate.
      Once the speculum has you opened like you’re gonna have sex with an alien, the tenaculum is used.
      It’s literally stabbed into side of cervix.
      Then the cervix can be manipulated and pulled into position.
      The pain? It’s hellish cramping and spasm as your cervix fights this most unnatural torture. Your cervix is full of sympathetic nerves. These monitor and report pain, dilation, cramps.
      Picture as many nerves as is in penis head.
      Now as the cervix is pulled and held the cold metal dilators are used to forcibly open the cervix. You’ll experience burning pain and cramps in cervix and uterus.
      After cervix is forcibly dilated in which it now bleeds along with tenaculum penetratuon hole.
      Next comes the uterine sound. This dilates you more as well as touching back of uterus.
      My internist doctor says it’s the most pain in 2.5 minutes she’ll ever experience–but then she won’t have to worry about it again for 5 years.
      So that bs nonsense stinking thinking makes it all permissible and valid?!
      Next, after the uterine sound is withdrawn, the device is inserted which delivers the IUD into place.
      This is also hellish but you’re in shock by this time.
      Then more pain as everything is withdrawn.
      This is an accurate accounting.
      This is no more fair to husbands and partners and even kids at home. They are involuntarily stuck dealing with after effects.
      This is traumatic all around.

      • And the $1,000,000 question is – why on earth would any woman subject herself to this?

      • If women new, they NEVER would allow it.
        That’s one of the reasons why the “privacy sheet” or tarp is used.
        It afford the doctor, not the patient, privacy to do what s/he wants.
        You never get to see the instruments used on you. They are on the tray; usually covered for “sterility” but believe me they were uncovered before you got there.
        My husband uses something similar to stab an aluminum can he can’t reach.
        A tenaculum is literally a nail mounted 90′ from an extension bar with a handle.
        Imagine a tomato impelled with something like that.
        Imagine a male doctor quickly covering his genitals if you held one up to use on him.

  16. Hi cat & mouse,
    I had been looking at long term contraception during my last relationship, unfortunately it ended before I had made the decision ,and since then I have never had to make the choice, with a bit of a man famine and Covid coming into play, but the iud was towards the top of the list, but reading your post made me think twice, at the time I had been to the family planning clinic and picked up all the information I could on the different options, and their description of the procedure was that only 5% of women felt pain and most only felt mild discomfort, pinching or slight cramping (lying bast..ds ) Reading your post soon had me checking it all out, there are numerous sites with women’s stories and some are simply horrendous, one lady screamed that they had to stop the procedure as she had never felt pain like it just before she threw up and then passed out, the people who come up with these types of medical interventions must have torture dungeons in their basements, needless to say this option has now been struck from the list.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • We are here for three reasons. To educate and to be educated. The share our experiences be they what they may. However as we all know most experiences with ob-gyne are poor. And, sharing to help prevent another from experiencing what I endured. Both my husband and I have had very bad experiences with doctors and hospitals.
      We are adamant about NOT going into an exam room alone. You are dealing with an educated, motivated individual who’s already compromised his/her values to get where they are. Your needs, your pain, isn’t even on their radar screens. They don’t care.
      With my pain, this has been a rough day. Especially with the f-up’d nonsense how narcotics are now administered.
      I’m tired of male physicians who treat us as hysterical and not as a patient; let alone as a whole body patient. There’s other parts to us than a vagina. And just because we have one, doesn’t mean that it’s time for high school science class again. You know? I require brand name meds. Generics are like drinking a liter of beer and expecting you can piss out a forest fire when you should simply stick to extinguishing bbq’s in the stadium parking lot.
      Doctors don’t believe us. Especially when it’s to do with pain.
      Before you were here, I discussed what it’s like to experience an endometrial biopsy. Briefly I’ll review this; because I feel you’ll pick up on the similar language in its explanation compared to that BS you got re IUD’s.
      I was told the biopsy was routine and that I might experience mild cramping like period cramping. No anesthesia required.
      My husband knows my pain tolerances which are abnormally high. This is because I need both knees replaced and my shoulder replaced as well. I have chronic regional pain syndrome, bodily. So when hubby heard me screaming, saw me physically recoiling, making fists, crying, leaving my fingernail marks on his wrist, he wanted to know why. The doctor acted as if this was a total surprise to him. The lying **** even exclaimed he’d never seed my reaction before.
      When I go back, he wants to repeat it. What does he say? That it’s like experiencing mild cramping, like period cramping. With that my husband stopped him. I was already curling up on the exam table. This is why it’s good to have a buddy with you who knows what goes on. Your bodyguard in a most literal sense.
      If an appt goes poorly, who has to deal with it? The spouse. So it’s fair he has a say and vice versa.
      My husband went on YouTube and viewed this procedure, top of that he’d already been busy researching other things as well. What the doctor didn’t know is that hubby also accessed a medical text online from UC Berkeley. My husband told him that the test is known as the most painful thing outside childbirth. He disclosed where he read it. And that if it’s truly necessary then the outpatient surgical center would have to be reserved so I could get anesthesia and analgesia. The doctor’s eyes opened. Suddenly he dropped the need for a repeat test. It wasn’t so necessarily after all. We never went back.
      This came from a doctor who at one time was running the fertility program at a major San Diego Hospital. I cringe what he and others put woman through to get pregnant. It’s why my husband refused to have children. How many couples divorce after childbirth due to the experience and the doctors/nurses? I’d like to know. The father to be isn’t allowed to participate in his wife’s care. He cannot advocate and protect her. She feels violated over the whole thing. It ruins the very thing it’s supposed to help foster.
      My husband’s ex-best friend is an anesthesiologist. He also isn’t concerned with pain, kids included, as he is when he sees an unconscious true red head in stirrups. His arousal is disgusting. And he also allows med students in to practice pelvic exams on unconscious women.
      Youtube had a video of a doctor performing the endometrial biopsy.
      This guy specifically said in advance how painful it is. He (male doctor; not female) gives his patients an IV for sedation and analgesia. He also has them take Rx anti-inflammatory plus he injects via catheter into the uterus 5cc’s of 2% lido. And he still insists that most women will faint afterwards. That’s because even though the pain is blocked enough is sensed that can cause a vagus nerve reaction.
      That guy is a saint!
      Did you notice the language, “…like mild period cramping…”? Seems to be their do-all excuse.
      What I’d give to perform a pap scrape, biopsy collection, etc, on the head of my former doctor penis.
      Not all doctors are idiots. The specialist I’m seeing for my rectocele refused to do a speculum exam due to my lichen sclerosis. That guy treated me like a person. He cared for me, my husband, and how I felt. Another saint!
      Always go on YouTube or to venues where you can get an honest explanation.
      If a pap is uncomfortable or painful, then imagine what an IUD and/or biopsy is like.
      And only 5% of women felt pain? Really? Then they must also be including med school cadavers in the remaining 95%.
      Thank you for your patience. God Bless you Jules.
      And hope you find the guy that’s worth going on birth control.

  17. Hi cat &mouse,
    I probably went a little overboard after your post, to the point of actually watching the procedure on a couple of medical sites, this led to watching vids of other “treatments”,and was left almost in shock, vids of hysterectomys and
    vaginal hysterectomys, are particularly unsettling , the actual brutality of the operation is horrific they twist , pull , tug and yank at the organ or organs they are removing apparently devoid of any compassion for the lady undergoing this operation she may as well be a slab of meat ( do not search for these if you have a weak disposition) we seem to be under the misapprehension that surgery is a precise and accurate intervention, where in reality they hack and slash in a similar fashion to Jack the Ripper, and yet this only seems to manifest itself in female healthcare, could it be that these surgeons are failed real surgeons and are taking their frustrations out on us.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • We watched the vaginal hysterectomy in horror. That, believe it or not, is the preferred procedure for removing cervix and uterus! As one piece!
      It’s like watching a mechanic remove a spark plug.
      The patient is given a large bolus of Michael Jackson milk or propofol. Very deep anesthesia. The vagina is opened up as if delivering a fetus.
      Did you get to see an endometrial biopsy?
      The more painful procedures are shown as “animated” like a cartoon. Complete with monotone robotic female voice. Things we should know, questions we need answered always go untold. It’s to falsely assure us all will be well. Nada to fear.
      Last night we spoke to a lady. She wanted to know why a woman must undergo a pap scrape 6 weeks after delivering a baby.
      It’s defensive medicine.
      You get scraped; the glass slide gets smeared w your bloody cells.
      Medical texts say the cervix is going to naturally show abnormal cells at different times and 6 weeks post partum is one of those.
      Same with a young teen, a newly pregnant woman, and different times of a cycle. They try to get you in at same time of cycle yearly so as to find an average when your cells provide a fairly consistent sample.
      Did you watch LEEP? The cervix amputation.

  18. Hi cat& mouse,
    I will view these vids but I’m taking a break for a day or so, there’s only so much my stomach and mind will take at this moment in time, it’s certainly not what I expected, but to give an opinion you must have all the facts , and although these vids are thoroughly sickening knowledge is power and vitality important if we are to stand our ground in medical situations,
    Going to have a couple of glasses of red now , else I probably wouldn’t sleep.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • A couple years I found several videos from an ob gyn going by med2med or med2 or something like that. He’s located in the South US somewhere as I remember.
      He loved doing LEEP’s. I despised this jerk and enjoyed writing the truth on his warped site.
      What are some of your favorite, or non favorite brainwashing sites?
      Like, which ones did you have to check your rage or struggle to keep from vomiting?

  19. Hi cat& mouse,
    I managed to pluck up the courage to do some more viewing, a little apprehensive at the content I would see after yesterday but
    I managed to get through four treatment vids including the LEEP and cold knife surgery on the cervix , the site is called journals.llw. com.
    Obstetrics& gynaecology. But if anybody feels the need to view this site please be prepared, I never knew there were so many procedures that involved the vagina there are literally dozens , and these vids are for medical students and
    doctors so they are pretty graphic and distressing. Another site I went to after I needed another break was a women’s group who had set up a comment page for women who had suffered because of having LEEP and one of drawbacks for vast majority of them was the fact that they had lost the ability to orgasm during intercourse, and even cases where all sexual desire was lost and in turn marriages had broken up. It’s hard to see that these treatments do not do more harm than good than good, with the mental anguish , physical consequence and break up of marriages, the more I learn about this, the more I think I would just let nature take its course whatever the consequence.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • This is what my last pap scrape from 7/06 said. The Disclaimer: “The Pap smear is a screening test designed to aid in the detection of premalignant and malignant conditions fo the uterine cervix. It is not a diagnostic procedure and should not be sued as the sole means of detecting cervical cancer. Both false-negative and false-positive reports do occur.” Take that to your doctor, middle finger facing upwards. Afterward, turn your finger down. That means you “don’t like the horse s/he rode in on either.”
      TRUSCREEN under FAQ lists pap as only 50% accurate.
      Trovagene said their own was 93% accurate. About same as Delphi Screener.
      Then, via Healthline: An article “This Cervical Procedure To Prevent Cancer Is Causing Complications.” It’s about LEEP. It details exactly what you have said you’ve read and heard. I’m so sorry about these things.
      Then hubby found this tidbit… Letter to the Editor; The Sydney Morning Herald, 9/27/16
      This was written in response to a girl who is in stupid panic re NEW guidelines for CC or pap…that if changes are made and the youngest aren’t screened—“WOMEN WILL DIE!” Yeah, that… The author is a pathologist. He should know.
      “This is written by a poorly informed patient. A very small number of precancerous turn to cancer, and they shouldn’t be called that. The writer says she had precancerous which very different to real cancer. She had dysplasia which is very common and in the vast majority of cases resolves. Most CIN1 and 2 resolve without treatment. Even CIN3 does most of the time. Cervical cancer is an old woman’s disease because it does usually take 10 years to develop. On the other hand dysplasia in young women is very common. The ration of CC for a woman in her early 20’s is 1.6 per 100,000. The highest ratio is in women over 85.
      [I interject here that pap won’t Dx an adenocarcinoma which grows from within the cervix outward; or uterine cancer that metastasizes]
      His source: https://cervical cancer.canceraustralia.gov.au.statistics
      Leave the advice to the experts. Too many young women were having surgery on “precancels” that would have spontaneously reverted to normal. They then developed an incompetent cervix and had miscarriages.
      The new guidelines were correct.”
      Let them pour that gravy on their Yorkshire pudding.
      Many here have already read this. I apologize for writing it again.
      Please, please, print this. Place it on bathroom walls, inside toilet paper, bus stops, everywhere. Tell every friend.
      We know women who got pap at their first pregnancy visit. Why? Defensive medicine. Didn’t matter if the previous had been a month ago. This causes miscarriages and is extremely painful. Says in med texts that the cervix is very tender in pregnancy. Especially early stages. Don’t we all know that…!
      If my husband could change anything in health care, it would be this nonsense. It is heartbreaking to him. He has seen me go through so much pain. He despises these practices and the doctors who enjoy doing them despite even their own texts teaching that it’s absolutely bogus.

    • Its goid that they’re getting any kind of support though. Too many victims of bogus procedures like that get beaten down when they come forward.

  20. A new petition has sprung up from a woman who ‘had a cancer scare’ and wants to lower the age for screening. Apparently, she had ‘pre-cancerous cells that would have progressed to cancer without treatment’. More scaremongering and misinformation.

  21. Hi ladies,
    I can’t understand why in this day and age women who have had “near misses”diagnosed do not use their judgement and do research it’s readily available all over the internet, sites like this are a wealth of information and an absolute goldmine on medical statistics , I’m finding it increasingly hard to give sympathy to these women who blindly follow treatments reccomended by doctors and don’t question it at all, no wonder women here feel that they are banging their head against the wall trying to get this across, if I had an issue I would want to know everything I could about it, and not just simply go along with ignorance following doctors orders, but if we just give up the women who do seek help will be left out in the cold and defenceless so besides the “ I’ve been saved ones” this site is for the misinformed and willing to learn women , so don’t become disheartened, eventually we will win.
    Love Annette (Helper) xx.

    • Sadly the brainwashing around screening and these so called “essential” gynae interventions make women very dependent and feel a lot of these procedures are a rite of passage for all women. I have to wonder sometimes why these women keep going back, but it always seems to be that it might be cancer and they won’t be satisfied until every cell in their bodies has been certified cancer-free.

      Just seen this. Yet another MP supporting yearly gynae exams for women in the UK. I hope this is nipped in the bud, and the government response is noted. Yet still they keep on coming and coming, and always an MP willing to take them up.

      https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0113/?utm_source=HOC+Library+-+Research+alerts&utm_campaign=a6ec24b454-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_07_16_08_00&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a9da1c9b17-a6ec24b454-102518849&mc_cid=a6ec24b454&mc_eid=52e4391d37

      • I know. I desperately wish for women to do their own research and make an informed decision to screen/not to screen based on balanced information and to be free from the worry and paranoia that they’re destined to be struck down by cells that ‘turn overnight’. But, I just remember, as soon as I ‘came of age’, I was harassed at every GP appointment about ‘my smear’ (the one I never wanted and certainly never opted into) and told to ‘just get it done, it’s nothing and could well save your life’. Now that they are getting into schools to drum this into young people, I don’t see informed decision making taking a step forward, sadly. Not when teachers are proudly boasting all over social media about the ‘profound’ conversations they had about it and how they’ll all be signing up and encouraging their girlfriends to sign up too x

      • It is sick, Gem. Somewhere along the line women turned from being ignored medically, to becoming targets for medical harassment by any yahoo with a speculum.

        When will we ever reach the middle ground???

      • We’re still ignored medically while being harassed by everybody holding a speculum. They undertest and undertreat women for heart attacks, including coronary risk factors or giving coronary stress tests – except the cholesterol test which seems to be about as low in predictive value as reading one’s horoscope from a newspaper, There are still tales of women being discharged from a hospital mid-heart attack because she is just “anxious” or even “hysterical”.

        We’re being simultaneously neglected and abused, overdiagnosed and overtreated for rare conditions, while underdiagnosed and undertreated for common conditions. And, charged out the yin-yang for it both ways.

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