This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
Gynaecology was founded by a sadist, and many of its methods, procedures and tools haven’t changed in the past 150 years. This is because our society is backward, because women are still considered lesser human beings, because it is easier for the doctors, and because it is cheaper for the government-run health systems and for the private health insurance companies.
Just look at tenaculum and biopsy forceps. They look like torture devices, and they are! They are used to pierce woman’s organs and tear off pieces of her flesh without any anaesthetic. Can you imagine anything of the sort done to a man?? No area of medicine that concerns men or both genders is as barbaric as ob-gyn. Why? Because it affects women only, and women are supposed to have babies. Therefore pain is “normal” for them and their reproductive organs are public property.
How many women hear from their doctors “you will feel a slight pinch / some cramping / mild discomfort”, and a moment later feel excruciating pain that is unbearable and extremely traumatic. We are told that cervix doesn’t have nerve endings, that we shouldn’t feel any pain “down there”, and that all our cries and complaints are just a made-up hysteria.
Thanks to this site and other online resources like it, the word is finally getting out. It is becoming harder to dismiss and gag women and to cover up the medical tortures that women have to endure even now, in the 21st century.
So true, so very true.
I wish more women would wake up to the facts and make their own decisions instead of being lead around by the noses and accept being told they’re ‘good girls’ for spreading their legs and just taking it.
No woman ‘needs’ a pap smear unless they have symptoms or they choose to participate in the screening.
It’s mass rape for a rare cancer using an inaccurate test with barbaric treatments using no anaesthetic.
No thanks! Never had one, never will.
– Ozphoenix
I live in the Boston area and an ongoing case here certainly bears out what Oxphoenix said about women being “good girls” and being lead around by their noses. A rheumatologist in a major teaching hospital is being sued in a class-action lawsuit by 100 women who said he coerced them into invasive exams, telling them a pap smear was a required part of their treatment. Not to blame the victims, but why would they go along with this when they were there for rheumatology? It defies logic and certainly underscores the fact that women are programmed to be people-pleasers, especially in a medical setting, even if it goes against their instincts.
– Judy
Cat&Mouse; It’s psychological manipulation. It’s the expectation that your doctor has your best interests in mind. It’s a lack of Full Informed Consent. It’s being intimidated and feeling your only way out is to cooperate or you won’t get treatments you really need. And we all know that is true. The veiled threats… It’s also fear and guilt mongering.
Or all the above combined into one terrible experience.
Don’t we all know…
Cat&Mouse here. Hello. Talk to anesthesiologist or an honest ob-gyn and ask which nerve trunks off the spinal cord are connected to the cervix and vagina. The answer is S1, S2, and possibly L5-S1 as well, besides the Vagus nerve. Also as painful are endometrial biopsies. The pain you feel during childbirth and periods comes from those same nerves.
As for men being cut on without anesthetic? Happens to male babies via circumcism. A little lidocaine goes a long way for both men and women. So does consideration and love.
Daily fail 2 days ago, ladies, just seen, apparently we still don’t understand about HPV and how vital screening is. Our own Kiwicelt has been making her usual valid and informed comments, I’ve chipped in a bit too. I won’t be having my vital screening.
Hi Katrehman,
I will have to have a look for this as I dont remember seeing it at the time. I wont be attending either.
Jess
More scaremongering on Twitter this morning. A tweet popped up with this link on it:
https://thamesvalleycanceralliance.nhs.uk/our-work/patient-engagement-patient-experience/campaigns/cervical-cancer/?utm_source=SM&utm_medium=T034&utm_campaign=CervPjan23
Taking the pill for more than five years increases your risk??? Not heard that one before.
More Pap crap…
Jess.
Apparently screening “saves thousands of lives each year” and yet not one piece of evidence, not one study is linked to back up that nonsensical claim.
They really need to start treating women like adults.
Jess, I read it after eating so a comment about vomit bucket….
Seriously, scare tactics again? I think the 5 year pill thing is a throwback to the days when it was thought if you were on the pill you were more likely to be having more partners? So more at risk of STI in general?
You didn’t miss much in the daily fail article, apparently only 12%of us understand about HPV and how vital screening is, one of the comments was, does it matter they don’t understand as long as they go and follow advice given? I had to jump on that asking how informed consent can be given if they don’t understand, and did the person suggest just rounding us all up with sheepdogs and escorting us to the clinic??
This is a cervical hysteria week methinks..
I don’t know if anyone listens to BBC Radio 4 but there was a segment on there today abut cervical screening with someone from cancer research and “ensuring” high uptake.
I didn’t hear it myself but saw the snippet on Twitter or whatever it’s called now.
I really don’t know how you “ensure” uptake for something entirely voluntary. Probably poor word choice but it sounds rather sinister.
I feel another harassment campaign might be incoming. Thank goodness I officially opted out!
I saw this yesterday morning when I was in the gym, it was all over sky news and ITV and had the obligatory footage of an anonymous nurse putting KY jelly onto a speculum. They are going to launch a campaign by the sound of it to brainwash women into getting smeared, jabbed, and booster jabbed. Self testing was also mentioned so not sure if non attenders are going to get this kit sent through the post.
Hi guys, this is going to sound strange, but is there anyone else in here who lives in Sydney, Australia? Like me?
Thanks,
Ozphoenix
Jess, good luck with that then, bet they don’t get many taker’s! They never learn do they? They did it so many times before and it didn’t succeed but this time might…not!?
I’ve just checked the most recent statistics and uptake for cervical screening in under 50s in UK is down to 66%. So just two thirds attending now. Does anyone on here watch Strictly on BBC? Bobby Brazier who’s still in the competition is Jade Goody’s son. Just waiting for them to start promoting how wonderful the lovely Jade Goody was ( sorry, just thrown up into my sick bag there), and how women need to attend those invitations…
I’m not in Sydney, Oz, but often wonder how your programme is going for you over there? I thought self-testing had been implemented some years ago, and Australia is set to be free of cervical cancer by 2030?
That was me, Adawells. Can’t seem to get my name to come up these days!
Hi ladies,
Just heard on the news that the contraceptive pill (not the mini pill ) ) is being made available from next month free of charge all you need to do is to sign up at your local pharmacy to receive them, no questions asked no exams , now all they have to do is explain why for decades they held females to ransom and wouldn’t release it to them without them having their little checks.
Hugs Jules x.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/huge-change-contraceptive-pill-rules-28115059
You’re right, Jules. Just seen this.
Read Jerusalem Post or Times Of Israel. Research in God’s Children’s Land has revealed a way to prevent sperm from developing in men.
A real “pill” for men is coming.
Not fast enough.
–With Love from Cat&Mouse
Finally something positive in the Daily Fail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12769993/cervical-cancer-awareness-advertisement-airbrushes-women-out.html
Hi jess,
Great post, I actually laughed out loud reading it. Bonus hole? Front hole and I guess back hole, I think we’ve actually uncovered who actually writes this they get their toddlers to do it but seriously I love it when they turn on each other I find it really funny
Hugs Jules x.
Another one
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/22-more-patients-accuse-retired-norwell-pediatrician-dr-richard-kauff-of-sex-abuse/ar-AA1kf8HW
Hi ladies,
It’s hard to put into words (without filling the post up with too many expletives) how much I hate these animals in the so called medical profession, all to often women carry the mental scars of this behaviour the rest of their lives, and when they are caught out the charges are diminished in severity the usual one is sexual misconduct “reduced to” misconduct so if it becomes public knowledge nobody will ever know what it was he was actually charged for, if I had my way they would have the words
Rapist or molester tattooed on their foreheads ,Annette said she would go one better and have “I like cock” and put him in a cell with an aggressive homosexual so he would get a taste of his own medicine, I just hope these women get justice and eventually find peace.
Hugs Jules x.
Another sensible article in the Daily Fail looks like the brainwashing campaigns and the bombardment on TV isnt working as well as they thought it would:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12783637/Cervical-screening-uptake-plummets-10-year-low-One-three-women-skipped-vital-smear-test-protects-against-cancer.html
Have a good weekend all,
Jess
Hello everyone, it’s been great to read that in some countries, the situation seems to be slowly but surely improving (birth control pills being available over the counter without a need for unrelated invasive screening, self-testing options being made available to women, some countries realizing that this excessive screening is unwarranted and that maybe women should have bodily autonomy in medical settings (I know, revolutionary, right), etc.).
Unfortunately, here in the Czech Republic, there’s still no change, at all. Well, at least I found a provider where I can get birth control pill receipts online without having to be forcibly examined first, but I wonder at which point they will get shut down, since it’s only that one place. So when that happens, I guess I’m not going to take birth control anymore, since I don’t want to be forced into these exams. Woohoo, such freedom, feel really great to be a woman.
(I myself had to do it since the age of 16 because I wanted to access birth control and I don’t wish this on the next generation of young girls… it’s very depressing).
Also, I got an e-mail today from my health insurance company pestering me specifically about cervical cancer screening, because of course, that’s the only part of me that matters, aside from my breasts.
What I find most horrifying is that 15 year old girls are still being told that they should get gynecological exams every year starting at that age. At least in most other countries, it’s ages 18+ and they leave very young girls alone. Yeah, not creepy at all.
I also stopped the pill in my late 20s due to the demands of doctors who wouldn’t just give me a script without a breast exam, internal and pap smear. Holding my contraception to ransom. The GP I saw as an 18 year old was insisting I have breast exams….at 18.
OMG I just googled “cervical screening in the Czech Republic and it shocking that any female over the age of 15 is offered not just a cervical smear but a full on internal examination every year (thankfully the transvaginal scan is optional). That is morally wrong as at that age the pressure to get it done must be intense and your not old enough to make your own informed decision.
Yeah, “offered”. What it means that everyone who wants birth control gets subjected to the speculum, pap smear, doctor’s fingers (yeah, this exam is still done here, sadly) and the vaginal ultrasound is unfortunately also mostly done, except for some old practices that don’t have it, but those are a minority now. It’s all extremely invasive and you’re supposed to undergo it every year. No, thanks.
And this continued for years, until I got to my 30s, had a very painful experience, and started doing my own research. I feel a lot of anger looking backwards.
And I totally agree with you, Jess – it’s horrible that young girls are being pushed into this. I remember that at the age of 16, I had no idea what’s going on (no one tells you why these exams are done and what even is done).
A vaginal ultrasound every year? WHAAT?
I was reading how they tell women having a transvaginal ultrasound (vaginal ultrasound) that it only goes ‘a short way in’ so don’t worry.
That’s bullshit because it you look it up on the net, they put the probe all the way into your vagina right up against your cervix. It’s the same as sex.
I’ve always refused transvaginal. No way in hell.
I’m so sorry! It does not at all sound like you consented to them!
When I was 16 my parents described me as a “difficult” child, when I went to go on the pill and a cervical smear was practically forced on me when I wanted my next three months of the pill I thanked my lucky stars that I was branded difficult and many years on I still have never had one and never will. Thankfully the screening age in the UK has been raised to 25 but even so a lot of women are coerced in having one even now.
Hi ladies,
Wishing all the incredible women on the site a marvellous Christmas and a happy new year.
Hugs from Jules and Annette xx.
Thanks Jules, Annette, and Kat! Just a note Jules and Annette that for some reason I’ve yet to figure out the thumbs up button on your comment box isn’t working. I’ve tried clicking it a few times and it isn’t sticking.
I too wish all the amazing women on this site a happy holiday! It seems collectively we’ve been making some progress 🙂
Thanks Jules and Annette,❄️ I join you in the same message! This is Kat Rehman btw, I kinda “changed my image lol!”
Thanks, Sue, and I just tried clicking the like button for your comment and that’s sticking too, so please take a like from me anyway, and thanks for all that you do xx
Thanks Kat! Now the previous comments thumbs ups are working again but your most recent one isn’t. Please take one from me too 🙂
Hey there everyone! hope all is well! So i finally wrote a book about all my bad doctor experiences in the USA! it is self published at Barnes and Noble. Right now, i have just an e-book, but a print version is in the works. This book includes my experience at the gyno, which is unfair and very bad. Please if you can spend the $5.00 to check out the e-book! https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/doctor-experiences-jacqueline-lisella/1144576158?ean=2940185965191
Just wanted to share an interesting observation I noticed on the MSN homepage this past week. There was a piece on prostate diseases (no doubt due to King Charles’ recent condition) along with an illustration of a man in a very degrading position undergoing a procedure. Someone actually complained about it in the comment section. I guess people are used to women being pictured with their legs in stirrups and their breasts clamped in mammogram machines, but the first time a man is pictured in a humiliating position, it’s offensive!
– Judy
I missed this which is a shame as I would have commented that it made a change to see a man being humiliated by then medical profession instead of a woman. When my husband turned 50 he was offered a routing prostrate exam by his GP when he went for something else and he said he was surprised at how eager they were to push this onto him and he had to be pretty firm in his response that it wouldn’t be happening.
Jess
Jess that’s interesting, one wonders if incentive payments are being introduced to try to get men to take up the offer of a finger up the bum!?
Jess and Kat
In the US at least, there seems to be an uptick in prostate cancer screening, which doctors in the past have been very cautious about recommending. In our for-profit system, more is always better and the almightly dollar rules. It wouldn’t surprise me if this trend is catching on in the UK as well.
-Judy
Hi ladies ,
All they have to do is give them the same spiel they give us, that the doctor has done this a thousand times and seen it all before ,it’s routine for them no need for embarrassment , it may be a little uncomfortable but it shouldn’t hurt as they introduce fingers and instruments into them , they should just suck it up and let the doc do his thing, I absolutely love karma.
Hugs Jules x.
Exactly Jules while totally they miss the point, it’s not about them and what THEY think, it’s about US the poor patient
Hi ladies,I don’t really know where to start with this one , a former model turned actress called poonam Pandey from India who has almost one and a half million Instagram followers , has had to make a grovelling apology after it was announced she had died from cervical cancer, and then two days later turned up fit and well and said the reason for the death announcement was her way of bringing the illness into the public spotlight , sparking a major backlash over her attention seeking behaviour, but this attention whore has been in constant controversy in the past she announced she would strip naked on national television if India won the cricket World Cup, arrested for trespassing on government property, arrested for what was described as an objectionable video, and flouting COVID laws.to actually take it as far as she did and having her death announced just leaves me lost for words, I know I shouldn’t wish harm on others but if there was was such a thing as karma and I were her I would start to worry.
hugs Jules x.
Absolutely hideous stunt, whoever came up with this idea really didn’t think it through. I thought it was awful.
This is one you can take to your husbands. The DRE is as asinine as the pap scrape. From a 2021 Renal & Urinary News article, DRE is 28% accurate with many false outcomes vs PSA blood test. If one does have prostate cancer the DRE can force cancer into the bloodstream. Just a bad poke in a dark place.
No. Let her have her dose of karma. Let her suffer through a false result outcome. Let her suffer the pressure we do. And if she’s maimed, let’s see what she has to offer to the public afterwards. Will it be another cry of wolf?
Daily fail today, ladies, now it seems women who are or who have been infected with HPV, are more likely to go on to suffer with heart problems. One wonders if it’s another way to boost uptake of smears and the vaccine…..or if there’s anything in it. It won’t persuade me to have a smear though!!
My husband is a sex abuse survivor in a hospital setting by women. He was very clear and emphatic to his Harassing Moronic Organization or HMO. He sent them data from the 2021 Renal & Urinary News article by two doctors discussing why the DRE is more harmful than good.
He told them he will refuse to even discuss it.
It will never happen again.
DRE 28% accuracy even worse than pap scrape.
And look up the article. Google “time for DRE to go away” or “time to say goodbye to the DRE”. No more poking in the dark.
this is random, but I just saw a piece in the Liverpool Echo, the silent cancer that can take years to diagnose, there was the stock pic of the nurse holding the smear brush and test tube but the cancer is thyroid???
Hi Everyone,
One of my friends got her “summons” for cervical screening back in October and naturally it went straight into the recycling bin. Last week a reminder summons came which also went in the bin and she is now opting out. If you dont opt out do you get a third summons or do they stop hassleing you after the second and leave it for three years?
Jess.
I received a summons after registering at a new surgery. I opted out right away and never heard anything else again. They’re not supposed to harass people who have formally opted out (doesn’t mean they don’t but they really shouldn’t)
Jess think it depends! Before I opted out, sometimes they’d leave it, sometimes I’d get more and more letters, sometimes they’d call asking me to book an appointment, even after I opted out,my GP would still raise it til I reminded him it was illegal under GDPR to continue to hassle and opted out person…..?! Let us know how your friend gets on, happy to hear someone else is opting out too!!😸
Good evening All,
A post was recently shared on Reddit highlighting the very issues and misinformation in gynecology you all speak of. It’s a long post, but please check it out if you have time and make sure to share with other women and men. If more women are informed, maybe things will begin to change for the better in women’s healthcare. Take care. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Wedeservebetter/comments/1bfko7v/whats_in_the_dark_shall_come_to_light/