This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
I’ve posted this once but it dosen’t appear to of Come up , so this is the repost . Thinking outside the box how about an online petition I have read that if a petition reaches 100,000 names that it must be discussed in the Houses of Parliament this could highlight the fact that although it is law gp’s have some reluctance to inform patients of their rights and behave unethically so this must be made mandatory for them to do so , it could also make the the point that there is insufficient information on the false positives and false negatives given on screening leaflets and what these results could lead to ,without all information how can somebody be truly informed
For the reasons outlined in a previous post, I doubt this would be effective.
However, what I do think would gain considerable traction is a petition demanding access to self-testing.
This would tick a lot of boxes, from the moderate pro-screeners’ perspective:
It could be argued that the self-test option is particularly important during a pandemic, with many GP practices closing down the service.
It would help those who don’t want to have to choose between screening and safeguarding themselves from Covid.
And lastly, it would help those who will only screen using a self-sampling method.
Eve Appeal & Jo’s T0ssers are constantly banging on about low uptake during the pandemic, so why not use their own arguments againat them in order to advance the case for self-testing.
I think a petition would be particularly effective during the pandemic before GPs and nurses have the opportunity to call women back into the consult room.
https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1471-0528.16610
Saw this article on why the UK is still sticking to 3 yearly screening for HPV testing even though evidence has shown that the test can be done 5 years apart or more. Turns out there is likely to be a hump in cases due to the switch to HPV testing last year in the UK. An extra one third of HPV+ cases are likely to be found and these will be more quickly resolved if they delay stretching the test to 5 years until later. Sure I’ve read that CIN2 is basically no worse than CIN1, but these authors are Jo’s Tosh pet researchers so we can’t expect them to want to scale back the overtreatment any time soon.
Has anyone seen the new UN strategy on combating cervical cancer globally?
I worry that it will have repercussions on our movement.
However, interestingly, it states women should be screened at least twice during their lifetimes at age 35 and 45, and that health commissioners should make use of innovative technologies to advance screening.
Surprisingly, it also references self-sampling and says this could increase facilitation and acceptability of the test.
I’ll second that AQ. 2 screens in a life time makes me an overscreened woman with my 3 screens from 1990s! Too bad the NHS isn’t listening to the WHO. Love your Jo’s Tossers. We need to think up a put down name for Eve Appeal. Anyone?
Most people on here call them Jo’s Tosh but I think they merit a stronger word than that haha, which is why I use the term, “T0$$ers” (pardon my French 😂).
I’ve thought long and hard over a more apt title for Eve’s Appeal 🤔
Perhaps the second word should be changed from appeal to anal, as they seem to talk a lot from it 😂
AQ I’ve been racking my brains! I love the Eves anal, how about the heave appeal as in vomit
The best I can come up with is Sleaze Appeal due to their advertising always portraying women as sluts.
Let them try that in the office with both partners present. Especially if they know what BS pap scrape is.
Eve Appeal is using the WHO research and plan for cervical cancer as a mission statement for want of a better term. When I asked their horrid CEO a question, a link to the WHO is what I received as a reply.
This is hugely deceptive on Eve Appeal’s part.
It will play to their rabid stans talking about how common and deadly cervical cancer is. Yes, maybe if you live in Malawi and absolutely it should be a focus for WHO but for those in the US, UK Australia, etc….not so much.
I’m not sure if they’re actually that thick or it’s a cynical ploy to exploit ignorance and piggyback off the rep and name of the WHO.
Most women hugely overestimate their personal risk, muddying the waters with the stats from the developing world certainly won’t help (or may help them in their uptake drive).
Or how about leave appeal as in leave the world or leave our vaginas in peace?
These charities are so obsessed with their pet causes, they’re oblivious to anything else. A quick peek at the statistics for those countries where women are supposedly dropping like flies from CC will show that while the disease is more prevalent in those countries, it is not as great a threat to those women’s lives as is implied. It is completely dishonest to use figures from third world countries which have poor healthcare and high rates of HIV/AIDS as a means to frighten women into submission.
From what I’ve seen, Eve Appeal seem to be just as fanatical as Jo’s To$$ers.
Caroline – Upon scanning the document, it did seem as though they were trying to apply African CC rates to our own in order to emphasise the importance of screening.
I recall the NHS manipulating a WHO strategy on breastfeeding, citing data and studies from it to confer the benefits, when the strategy was primarily based on third-world countries with no access to clean drinking water.
This led to incessant bullying of women, that resulted in the NHS having to change their policy on the matter in 2018.
So, in the same way that the bf guidance was manipulated, I fear this will similarly be used to curtail women’s rights further.
Although the strategy makes mention of two lifetime tests (a dramatuc improvement from the three or five year sanctioned tests), and use of self-sampling to improve acceptability of the test (something they do at least recognise), there is no mention of informed choice. Instead, it’s emphasised that countries should reach the 70% screening threshold, presumably at the expense of women’s input. Once again, this is dressed as “empowering” women.
As we know, the NHS will cherry pick the bits of the strategy that they like, I fear this is just another stick that will be used to beat women with.
So over the past 24 hours I’ve seen a ton of info about how the chinese are testing for covid via anal swab. Seems pretty controlling and demoralizing. Like pap smears!
I’ve always felt like paps have been a way to coerce women into accepting whatever the authoritative medical experts demand. When women are meek, complacent and uninformed, they also risk their childrens health.
The doctors think hey, why not? If you trust the financially incentivised medical establishments to make decisions for you, then I’m sure they consider your children fair game with little back talk or opposition.
China has been promoted as the gold standard for how they dealt with the pandemic. How funny will it be when anal swabs become the standard of care in western treatment? Sorry, but I have to laugh. I can’t wait to see people do the mental gymnastics. Too bad they’ll never consider pap smears as invasive or unacceptable.
I fear that it will become the standard of care, so everyone seeking to enter a doctors office or hospital will be treated to “bottoms up”. Most people will comply, I suspect, to what will be frequent coerced sodomy. When you figure you don’t own your body, you allow those in charge to do whatever they want. If they can penetrate you at the time and manner of their choosing, you will allow anything – and pay through the nose for it.
Ada sleaze appeal is bloody brilliant!! 🎉🎉
This article, although dated April 2020 states there are only two manufacturers of nasopharyngeal swabs that are used for covid tests in the world. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/01/825499508/one-of-the-few-manufacturers-of-the-special-swab-for-coronavirus-tests-speaks Since then maybe there are more manufacturers.
Seems very odd that now anal tests might be approved when these do not require specialized swabs. Those are more common and cheaper swabs. As always follow the money and you will find it points to the truth.
Question on getting birth control pills online. Has anyone tried Nurx or LemonAide Health? I’ve heard good things about it, but I also want to hear from people on here as well, rather than just read reviews lol. I think this coming March or so, my prescription for my birth control pills might be ending, since when I visited my doc last year to renew it she said it’ll be renewed for 1 year, and I think it was around that time last year. Of course, they wanted to do a stupid pap, but I said no, and my husband was also there to have my back. Lol she then told me she won’t force me but then started saying stuff about liability, then for some reason my brain froze there, then my husband came to the rescue haha, then simply said “isn’t there something she can sign or something, that says she refused?” then she said “yes we can do that.” Then I said “Okay then I refuse.” Of course there was the whole “oh no but you’ll die and get cervical/uterine cancer if you don’t screen” but I know it’s rare. Plus, my reproductive health is the least of my concerns. If I can’t have kids, oh well, I’ve talked to my husband about adopting if I either A, choose not to have kids of my own, or B, can’t have kids. I’m more concerned about the health of my vital organs that are actually REQUIRED for me to survive lol. Anyway, sorry about the rant. But anyway, when/if my prescription ends in March, I want to start getting them online instead of having a prescription (even though I’m dying for birth control to just be available OTC). I know of course the only thing you need for them to know is blood pressure, then you’re good to go. Anyone who’s tried it? Let me know! 🙂
See what happens when hubby is there? You are more efficient as a couple than going w/o him.
One reason they like women alone is to break your resistance and using the possibility of cheating adds to that.
If he’s there tells them you are a close couple. Shows he cares and that you’re both monogamous.
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they don’t respect women. They don’t take her seriously when she says “no”. But if the husband’s there, they’re far more likely to accept his word, when he tells them that his wife will not be attending. It’s as if her word alone is not sufficient, despite the fact that it’s her body.
It’s an interesting insight into their mindset and is almost reflective of 18th century ideals, when a woman was seen as her husband’s chattel.
Good researching.
When hubby is there it’s a united front. Divide & conquer doesn’t work so well.
Truth be told they don’t trust either and will always use the BS mantra about being “sure.”
We lived it.
Years ago my bladder was acting up due to me being od’d on tylenol in my pain meds.
Best parts were when the female md asked “anybody have anything to share?” while glaring at hubby. He replied “why are you staring at me?”
When she returned after looking at a slide of my cervical mucus declaring “I’ve never seen one so clean”, he says back “well I could’ve told you that.”
The look on her face? Priceless.
It’s so true! That’s exactly why I wanted to bring my husband because of course they’ll take his word for it, and not just mine alone. It’s sad that it has to be that way, but it’s the best I can do for now.
So I got an email and text from the Walgreens around the corner from my apartment that my prescription was not approved for a refill, so I’m wondering if that’s a cue for me to renew it. However I’ve REALLY been thinking about getting my pills online instead. I just need to get a manual blood pressure monitor so I can do it on myself because if someone else does it, it will spike lol.
However I’m wondering if I can just give them the “hey I need to renew my prescription for my birth control but I’ve been feeling funky the past few days. Can we do a telehealth appointment so I don’t risk everyone’s health there?” then they won’t pull any “you MUST do a pap smear right now or you’ll die of cancer.” So which do you guys think I should do? Should I just get my pills online or should I do a telehealth appointment with my practitioner? I’m leaning towards ordering them online but let me know what you guys think I should do 🙂 I love you all and I don’t even know you! I love this site!!
Hi Anon!
I’d pull the feeling funky thing. Theres so much virus going around, who knows what you might have? LOL
Otherwise, I’d find a doctor who doesn’t demand to feel up your tits and shove things into your vagina (crude, yes, but sadly true) before giving you a pill script.
For them there’s a psychological component to why they capitulate in front of hubby.
He’s a witness to their chicanery.
If you both sign a complaint it has more weight.
Cat & Mouse – It would be interesting to see how they’d react to a woman who was accompanied to her appointment by another woman, who was willing to support her and challenge the professionals if needs be. Perhaps we should conduct a study on the ethics of professional conduct in the gynae industry.
Do you live in CA or know someone who does? There it’s law that you CAN get The Pill OTC!!
Except at Walfart where the warped corp thinks we’re too stupid and can’t be trusted.
If not there try an online Mexican or Canadian pharmacy. In Mexico it’s otc.
Anonymous – It sounds like you’re in the US. If that’s the case, I would get the pills online. If you do a telemedicine appointment with your practitioner you may get your prescription, but it would likely be for only a few months worth on the condition that you then come in for a pap, etc. In our for-profit healthcare system, many physician practices still insist on gyn exams for a pill prescription even though its been proven not to be necessary. After all, they don’t make money if you don’t go in – and that’s what it’s all about – money – not what’s best for women.
Yes, of course it’s about money *facepalm.*
I just talked to my husband about it today and we’re still deciding on whether to do telehealth or get pills online. I am from the US, yes. I AM leaning towards getting them online via LemonAid Health or Nurx. You bring up a good point about them giving me my pills only on the condition that I schedule a pap in a few months, even if I do tell them I’d rather stay at home to stay safe and what not 😑 before I cancel though, do they ask any reasons why you’re canceling the prescription, or can I just tell them I’d rather not disclose the reasons why?
Btw my main reason for using birth control is for health reasons. I had excruciating periods from hell and the pill has seriously saved my life. I am using it for pregnancy prevention but mainly for health reasons.
Hi Anonymous,
I’m not US-based however I would guess that you are under no obligation to tell them why you are cancelling, seeing as you are not ordering and purchasing them from him.
My advice would be to not allow your doctor to hold your pills hostage and to take control of the situation.
I use pills for the same reasons you give too and I order mine online.
To be honest with you, my quality of life would be all the worse without them.
One reason why doctors don’t like women purchasing them online is because they lose so much power.
Should women decide to use them for contraceptive reasons, there is no reason to divulge to your doctor whether or not you’re sexually active, and if they ask, you don’t need to answer seeing as you’re not dependent on a doctor to access them.
They really are pesky creatures.
You must also understand the massive statistical error rates within pap scrape and the two-finger salute pelvic exam.
When they learn you’ve done your homework they’ll realize their BS medical tech speak won’t change your mind.
Just say you’ve decided to look into other methods. Or call after hours – you’ll get the answering service and can just leave a message. Please keep us posted.
Also Cat & Mouse- I would LOVE to figure out how to access OTC pills from Mexico or Canada lol! I live in Idaho in the US btw. If you know how please let me know!
To Apocalyptic Queen- I actually have ONE sister (out of my 4 sisters) that’s also against gynecological practices. None of my other sisters are and neither is my mom unfortunately. They’re all on board with the “better go just in case. You have to just get used to it” crap. One day I’m thinking about having her stay over one night and come to one of my appointments just to see what they’ll say or think of ANOTHER woman by my side who supports my decision not to screen!
Go online or, since you’re in ID, go on a field trip north.
Absolutely order them online – it doesn’t matter what state you live in. Try Nurx, and I believe there are similar sites where all they require are that you answer a few health questions. A doctor then writes the prescription and they mail them to you. Wish these sites were around when I needed birth control (I’m 60 now). Please keep us posted on how it went, it may be helpful to others.
Here’s the real kicker.
See if you can order the Delphi Screener HPV test.
Next to the Trovagene Urine Based HPV test my hubby found, this is the gold standard.
Get a negative result on Delphi, give your md a copy and watch the tears flow.
That’s what my hubby and I did. Felt liberating!
I think I may have been able to cease screening online by following the links from the .gov.uk site- we’ll see.
Hi Jan Allen.
I’m afraid the link to cease screening takes you round in circles. Once you access the website to cease screening it tells you to write a letter to your GP explaining your decision. And that your GP would undertake to contact the screening authorities and cease you to make sure you got no more invitations. This is the so called way to ‘opt out’
I went down this route a few years ago and thought I had opted out. About two weeks ago I received an invitation for cervical screening in the post. I was really surprised. All I can assume is that my GP ignored this letter from me and did not take it further. Provably to keep me in the system so I received further invitations.
Best wishes to you. i hope you have success.
Linda this happened to me too, I first wrote to my doctor after deciding no more smears and 2!weeks later got another invitation. So I contacted the screening authority instead and got a form back Fromm them I filled in and sent back. In reply I got a letter confirming my opt out and I would not be receiving any more “invitations “. They said my GP had not informed them. Hope you and other ladies manage to stop the harassment
Hi Kat. I’m ignoring the invite ‘obviously’ I think in about 6 or so weeks from now I think I will receive a ‘reminder.’ After that I think I will get a phone call from the practice nurse asking me to come in for a blood pressure check, height and weight measurements and ‘one or two other little things.’ meaning she will try and force a smear on me when I go in. This is what she tried on about 5 yrs ago. I am ready for this try on. i will deffinitley be opted out after that!!!
On a good note I am now down to 12 1/2 stone. I am so made up with this. I cant believe it. AS you can imagine its been a lot of hard work. I wont tell you what my start weight was. But I’m euphoric!!
So far so good – there is a CASC page with buttons to click and you go for ‘cease’ then ‘I am a patient’ and take it from there. I am waiting to hear back from them, eventually.
https://www.csas.nhs.uk/ Hi Jan, is this the page you uploaded your details to? Not seen this before. It may be new. Let us know how you get on.
I now have a letter back saying I have been withdrawn from the CS programme 🙂
I sent this form: https://www.csas.nhs.uk/support/pc-cs-007-002-cease-informed-consent-v3
Here: https://www.csas.nhs.uk/contact-us/screening-cease-info/screening-cease-nhspatient/
It was a bit of a faff because you have to print it, fill it out, scan it, upload it etc.
The e-mail said I would get e-mail confirmation but they sent a paper letter.
I will let you know if there is any further come-back from this.
Congrats Jan! Thats a win! Yes, please let us know if they still try and contact you.
Congratulations, Jan, and welcome to the club! I regret never being sent a confirmation letter in the post, but it was a long time ago, and I’ve seen the opt out letter with my lavish signature kept in my medical notes. I kind of want a copy to frame for my wall at home!
I got there from clicking from this page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cervical-screening-removing-women-from-routine-invitations/ceasing-and-deferring-women-from-the-nhs-cervical-screening-programme and ended up on your page, Adawells.
I had not seen it before and it seems easier than all the faff of going through a GP surgery – it even tells the GPs to direct the patient to that page, so the end point is the same.
You might want to try simply using an overseas pharmacy. I’ve ordered medication successfully from India and also Mexico, authentic product turned up and got through customs just fine.
I’ve ordered BC and more recently, my husband uses India for his inhalers to avoid unnecessary doctor visits. As long as you use a chemist with decent (and real) reviews, you should be fine.
Hi guys. So, the only thing I’m hesitant on is trying Nurx because I’ve heard bad things about the app. I might try LemonAid Health; I’ve seen a lot better reviews.
I just ordered a manual blood pressure cuff, so I’ll be using that and then ordering them online. I have to do manual blood pressure on myself because if someone else takes my BP, or if even I myself use the electric one, I get anxious and my BP spikes lol. So yes I think I will just get them online, thanks for your guys’ input! I talked with my husband about it and he supports me either way.
I also heard that unfortunately you can’t tell them you’re using birth control to skip periods, otherwise they won’t give it to you. So even though my main reason for using it is for health reasons, I think I should only tell them I’m using it to prevent pregnancy right?
That’s a surprise to me. A friend’s daughter gets monstrous PMS & periods. In discussion we told her that The Pill can be used to delay periods due to excess or extreme PMS, flows, clots, pain, etc…
Check and see if any particular brands are marketed for that purpose vs the “daily” Pill.
It was super helpful for her. One period every 4 months makes her life much more tolerable. She’s longer figuratively considering suicide every 3 weeks.
I believe some women reduce their suffering to one period in a year.
Pro’s & Cons? Well, we already know the Pro’s.
Cons? It’s good to have a period for the purpose of getting rid or more specifically grosser to shed our skin within. The uterine tissue is hormone influenced as is so much of male and female reproductive systems. Prostates get inflammatory cancers due to accumulation of hormone influenced glandular skin gone awry, to lack of zinc mineral support caused cancers, to the system “plugging” up from non-use. Gross, eh? Tofu helps males because the estrogen in soy products balances against the testosterone over-stimulating his “nards” and causing inflammation.
For women much of same; in that uterine tissue goes bad from too much estrogen influence. Estrogen must be balanced with progesterone. It’s the inflammatory cancers that are worse.
Eating bad fats, such as factory farmed animals (poor Omega 3 very high Omega 6 fatty acids), beef, or not consuming enough Omega 3 polyphenols and vegetables can cause inflammation to build up in our own bodies. We are what we eat.
You’ll hear women here speaking authoritatively that diet directly influences your bodies to kill off hpv. I wholeheartedly agree.
I’m not aware of having a period helps much of anything else.
I used the pill to try and manage my horrendous periods, but eventually even that didn’t work. I was suicidal as well. Its pretty much ignored by doctors what hell a lot of women go through. I used to only work in jobs where I knew the toilet was nearby and I could unobtrusively slip away to change every 30 minutes!
When I was going through another suicidal spell because of the horrendous bleeding, my psychatrist found a gyno who would do a MEA (microwave endometrial ablation). It worked brilliantly! That was the start of my new life!
Perhaps she can consider getting that done? Its not easy to get, you can only have it if you have had kids or are childfree (I’m childfree, never wanted kids). You’ll have to really beg for it, which is disgusting but the reality in this world obsessed with womens reproductive ability.
That’s my plan. I also have a rectocele that will be repaired at same time.
Anyone had that done? I’ve been told it will be very painful. I’ll get dilaudid for pain.
Personally, my advice would be, do what you’ve got to do.
If you’ve been using them previously for health-related issues which have been investigated, then there’s no reason to discontinue using them unless you encounter problems.
For most doctors I have come across, the pill is the first port of call when women come to them complaining of excrutiating and heavy periods anyway.
To clarify, that was a response to Anonymous regarding ordering the contraceptive pill online.
Thank you Apocalyptic Queen. I definitely had excruciating periods from hell where I was practically bedridden for 3-4 days every month. Like you said, I’ll just do what I need to do. From the list of bc options, I’ve seen the brands I’ve used before. I’ve skipped periods before a few times but the last several ones I have not skipped on my own were either super super light and painless or they skipped on their own. So I think by now I might be fine, even when I do get my period and don’t skip them. Thank you for your input.
Has anyone put together a list or know where such a list could be found that details what each country recommends as far as screening goes? It would be interesting to see how other countries stack up to the USA as far as age at which screening tests are recommended, frequency and whether or not experts have advised such tests be scrapped or put on a less frequent schedule. And whether citizens of those countries tend to be healthier and live longer than their USA counterparts, It seems in the USA there is a more-is-better attitude regarding tests and it bothers me that so many people – women especially – are made to fear everything and be part of what is known as the “worried well.”
Hi Susanne,
It’s a first call-up at age 25 (24.5) in the UK, then a letter sent every 3 years until age 50 then every 5 years until 65.
In the Netherlands, the first call-up is at age 30, then 35, 40. If these 3 tests are negative a woman can choose to drop down to every 10 years until age 60, so just 5 tests if all are negative. As far as I know, these countries and perhaps Finland and Singapore are the only countries with organised national programmes. Other countries like France and Germany send out vouchers which can be taken to a private gyno of your choice to have the test done if you want it possibly on an annual basis. Entirely up to the woman if she wants to go, nobody chasing you up at all, and is, of course, separate from any other healthcare, so you’re unlikely to be bullied into a test if you use healthcare for another reason.
Are the tests offered pap scrape or something that’s better than 50% accuracy like Delphi Screener?
The tests are all crank’n’scrape in the UK, but Netherlands offers a self test sent to your home on request, I believe.
To add to the discussion, I think NZ and Australia recently upped their screening ages to 25. I think they offer the self-test to the hardcore “defaulters”.
https://www.programrose.org/
The Singaporean Program Rose sounds like the best of all: universal HPV test at home, send result by mobile device and get result in a day or 2.
Personally, I don’t think the UK will change it’s screening programme at all. It will just fizzle out over the coming years. I’ve seen in a lot of papers that cervical cancer is likely to be eradicated in the coming years. I was reading recently, that where they have given teenagers chlamydia testing, they have not come across a single case of HPV. Not only has the vaccine stopped the cervical cancer types, but it has also given cross protection to other types that just give warts. I don’t think they’ll change our programme. They’ll just get more relaxed about who turns up or not and it will quietly be wound down.
Now that’s fascinating. Does it make you feel any different re the vaccine?
How did they fare with teens chlamydia testing?
The best thing that could happen is the Medical Deviants see how easily 100% compliance is met in Singapore.
Does the study from Singapore mention which form of home testing was utilized?
That Singapore can offer women a self-testing option should be a source of shame to other Western countries!
It looks good, but I honestly don’t think we’ll get anything like that in the UK. My feeling is they’ll discreetly relax the pressure to screen, drop to 5 yearly testing in a few years, and with the vaccinated cohort working through, the numbers will drop off a cliff in a few years. It will only be the older women, and they don’t make good advertising and fundraising for the charities.
There’s just been a very sad case on our local news of a 28 yr old facing a terminal diagnosis of a very rare type of cervical cancer, but throughout the report there was no mention of cervical screening and the pressure to get it done. It could be that she was a regular screener, and that it had been missed or detected at the first screen and they didn’t want the secret out of the bag that it’s so innacurate. Either way, I was surprised that there wasn’t the usual mention of how that delayed/denied test could’ve saved her life. Perhaps the media is getting a bit more savvy about it, or Mr Music’s absence is paying off.
Her age determines what I believe the Dx will be.
If old her CC developed from inside out and hpv not a factor.
Scotland quietly changed to 5 yearly after lockdown. If you google it the information is a bit patchy.https://www.nss.nhs.scot/specialist-healthcare/screening-programmes/cervical-screening/
I thought I’d seen that somewhere before but I couldn’t think where. Yes, it was very quietly slipped through, wasn’t it? Not a mention anywhere.
Hi all, same Anon again from a few weeks ago. Update on Lemonaid Health! So, I tried going on Nurx at first, but it turns out they don’t have delivery set up for it in Idaho where I live… so I tried Lemonaid instead because they deliver all around. I cannot recommend this app enough! All I had to do was answer a few health questions, give them my blood pressure and any OTC I’m using, scheduled a followup call for the next day which was a quick 2 minutes, and bam! 3 days later they came to my door with a 3 month supply. In 3 months I’ll get my next 3 pack supply and so on. I’ll renew it the following year and that’s it. Yay for getting birth control online!! 🙂
I’m pleased for you! 😀
Power to you for taking the control out of the doctor’s hands 🤟
Hope they were okay with you for not renewing with them.
Heck yes!! Lol so I still haven’t gotten a call from them asking me about renewing my prescription so I’m just not gonna bother unless they call me. Idk what to tell them my reason for canceling but hopefully they don’t bother calling.
Honestly this has felt so liberating! 😃
I suppose you could just tell them you have decided not to renew with them and if you change your mind, you’ll contact them.
I guess you don’t have to give them any more reasons.
Even if you told them that you’ve decided to purchase them elsewhere, there’s nothing they can do about it.
YEAH!!!
As the cartoon goes, “Ah ah ah ah thee to thee ah thee ah to thee thats all folks!!”
So glad to have helped you.
Has anyone seen this?:
https://www.change.org/p/reduce-late-diagnosis-current-women-s-healthcare-in-the-uk-severely-fails-women-of-all-ages-and-urgent-change-is-needed-please-sign-and-share-this-petition-there-is-a-real-need-to-improve-women-s-health-smash-taboos-checkmeup-isignedforher/w?source_location=petition_nav
Extremely worrying. And the idiots have receuved “support” from a (predictably) male MP.
Who needs male doctors when these women pose such a risk to our right to bodily autonomy?
I tried to leave a comment but I don’t think you can unless you sign the darn thing.
OMG, she even took a “gynoselfie” like this despicable poster on reddit who’s trying to make that a trend. Those checkups exist in other countries like the US and Germany, and it does nothing to better health, the only thing you get is MORE pap smears (and we know about them…) and MORE absolutely ineffective manual exams (breast/pelvic). The fact the NHS is always short of money is very reassuring for once, though.
Omg. Plus, these dips haven’t gotten the memo that pelvic exams have no medical utility as a screening tool for asymptomatic women and are completely discredited except as a “tool for bonding” ie: medical masturbation. Seriously, a petition to promote more women to to go in for medical fingerf#$%ing as a crucial.and inescapable necessity, with no idea how much this proves how incapable they are of rational thought or basic research skills or anything but emotional reaction carefully herded by linked interests.
Monied interests. Lousy autocorrect.
My last pap was over 10yrs ago. In 2012 I had the Trovagene urine based HPV test, proved myself negative with 93% accuracy. Well, recently we came across my old pap lab report.
In bold print at bottom is the warning that “false positives and false negatives do occur.”
Then it advises to correlate the pap test with other clinical indicators for a full diagnosis.
Like I’ve said, pap is 50% accurate.
If they gave Full Informed Consent for this women in clinic would permanently cross their legs.
Off topic, but as a Trades Union Officer I’ve been following the no jab no job saga carefully, where employers are insisting that employees get the covid vaccine or get won’t be allowed to worry for them. There’s thought this could be legal under health and safety at work laws. What struck me though is it’s the same rhetoric used here, who wouldn’t have a life saving vaccine.. 5 minutes outta your day! As it is for smears.. WHY Wouldn’t you get this simple quick painless test every 3/5 years to save your life?? And if covid vaccine does become mandatory what then will follow??
Sorry should read employees must get the covid vaccine or they won’t be able to work for them! I hate predicting text lol
Hi Kat. we’re slowly moving forward into an Orwellian nightmare. Everything will be forced on us eventually in the name of public health.
I am also closely watching the Covid vaccine rollout to see if it becomes mandatory because if it does, I do think that the likes of Jo’s T0$$ers and Eve’s An@ls will start pushing for mandatory screening.
It is possible that once the pandemic is over, screening will slide further into oblivion or there will be a militant resurgence in terms of getting the take-up rates back up.
As with covid, arguments to target women would range from the, “it only takes five minutes” to “preventative medicine saves the NHS more money than having to treat all these irresponsible women”.
We could see a resurgence of 80s and 90s style tactics.
It’s difficult to predict which way the wind will blow, but with a rise in incentive payments being introduced, it doesn’t look like the NHS is giving up anytime soon.
I’m sure that the key will be the vaccine. If they cannot make that mandatory, then I foresee that it will be very difficult to enforce mandatory cervical screening.
Another saving grace is funding. The NHS will likely be close to bankruptcy by the time all this is over but don’t count out that stopping them.
I think I’m going to write to this MP who has decided to support this campaign so that he is aware just what it could potentially lead to.
Hi AQ. From recollection, forced medical procedures have already been tried out in Germany,the head of that programme a
“Dr Josef mengele”
Hugs Jules
Hi guys,
Please see the email that I have sent to MP Elliott Colburn regarding the annual checks campaign:
Good afternoon,
I recently came across the above named petition listed on Change.Org and I saw that the petition had received political support from yourself.
While I fully appreciate that this petition has been initiated with the very best of intentions, I have some grave misgivings about the campaign, and its’ potential to affect women’s common law right to consent and bodily autonomy in medicine, and I would urge you to please consider all aspects of this argument (which I will outline below) before promulgating this campaign further.
Firstly, there are many misconceptions about pelvic exams.
These are conducted annually in countries such as Germany and the United States, but recent research suggests that they provide very little clinical value in the diagnosis of the complaints listed in the Change.Org petition. As a result, these were ruled out as part of an annual screening strategy by the NHS some time ago.
Secondly, even the cervical screening programme is not entirely without risk. Again, there is a misconception that young women are being “failed” by the NHS due to the age of screening being increased in 2005 from 20 to 25.
However, the change was made due to medical and scientific research which demonstrated that young women aged under 30 in particular, were far more likely to receive “false positive” results, leading to further investigations and potentially harmful treatment in the form of LLETZ procedures, which in some cases, could cause stillbirths, miscarriages and menstrual problems in young women.
In 2003, a Bristol University study headed by Professor Angela Raffle, concluded that of all women receiving a CIN III diagnosis, only 12% of those women would go on to develop squamous cell carcinoma.
These findings were backed up in a 2013 Dutch study by Vink et al. that concluded that 12% of women receiving a CIN 3 diagnosis would develop squamous cell carcinoma within a timeframe of 23.5 years.
The upshot of this is that all women receiving a CIN 3 diagnosis are given treatment which can lead to some of the problems outlined above.
Even with improvements to the current screening programne, it is estimated that of 30,000 women, 90% still receive invasive treatment for CIN dysplasia that would likely have resolved by itself.
Therefore fourthly, given these considerations and the invasive nature of screening itself, women should be entitled to make a fully informed choice regarding their decision to participate in screening.
Due to the need to achieve an uptake rate of around 80% in line with guidelines from the National Screening Committee, the right to make a free and informed choice has not always been supported.
Some shocking reports of medical coercion including the threat to withhold medication if women refused to submit to screening has been documented over the years.
In view of all these considerations, I would counsel that in accordance with the latest clinical evidence, campaigns to support further gynaecological screening programmes (including annual check-ups) are short-sighted.
I would also counsel that as a woman, the notion of bodily autonomy and consent within medical settings is extremely important to me and to other women.
In accordance with the common law, every competent adult has the right to consent, or withhold consent, to medical procedures and treatments.
I fear that an annual check from adolescence will undermine this right for women and serve as another cause of inequality between men and women.
I would advise however that a number of countries such as the Netherlands, New Zealand and Australia have introduced a DIY self-testing kit for HPV which is the precursor to squamous cell carcinoma in up to 99% of cases.
The NHS also now screens in the first instance for HPV, however they do not offer the self-testing option to women despite the fact that it is said to have a specificity rate of 90%.
The self-testing option would be invaluable to women especially during the pandemic, and it is likely that given a recent Scottish study, most women would prefer to self-test rather than be made to undergo an invasive test.
If this could be brought to the attention of your colleagues in parliament, this would be appreciated by many women.
A good letter AQ. Hopefully it will get his attention and move him in the right direction for women.
When Theresa May was prime minister I sent a similar letter to her out lining the importance of bodily autonomy for women. Someone from her department wrote back to me that they could reassure me it was always the womens choice to undergo screening. They are aware we we are watching them.
Bloody brilliant, AQ! Champion! 🙂
Let’s see if you get a response.
I think most men wouldn’t have any idea how much women are abused and forced into this ‘medical woman’ stuff. It’s still common for society in general to be clueless about abuse of power in medical settings.
Exactly the same as when priests were considered immune from abusing children – and we now know how that turned out… :’-(
A great letter AQ! Let’s hope you get a reply soon
I’ve just seen over on a welfare rights blog ( and the unemployed are as bigoted as the Daily Fail for some reason!) the comments; if you won’t get the vaccine for yourself do it for your family and friends and society! Shades of, what will happen to your family if you die unsmeared of cervical cancer!!
Hi all, It might be a thought to also ask him if he’s in favour of mandatory screening, how he is going to get round the human rights act section 3 ,the human rights act section 8, the discrimination act,the uk law on inciting rape and any other civil liberties law that may be fractured, these idiots think they are going to pick up a few more votes by appeasing these other idiots. And if they manage to find a loophole and you still refuse to attend what next are they going to send a hit squad round because every dad brother uncle husband boyfriend will be waiting, I’m afraid they will be pissing in the wind excuse they language but this moron has really wound me up,why do they not utilise the facts as we do before committing (I feel better now). Hugs Jules x.
Hi Jules,
I am of the view that the sheer stupidity of these women poses a huge risk to our bodily autonomy and human rights.
They deem themselves to be advocates for the rest of us without our input.
These fools are so ignorantly dangerous to the point that it calls into question their ability to vote.
They would happily sign away our rights with a smile on their face, and would be the first to complain if it came back to bite them, and moan how they were betrayed, or never saw it coming!
I will never understand the preoccupation some women have with , basically, complete strangers vaginas and what they do with them! Because this is what they’re requesting, every woman be subjected to exams and testing! As you say AQ, they’re ignorant and dangerous
Hi ladies, I don’t think it would be possible by any stretch of the imagination, for this to become mandatory,the ethics and legality would prove to be far too much to address. We just need to keep on track spreading the word and helping and gaining followers although with some of the air heads you try to reason with are beyond help.i have one of these at work but she thinks she has every illness known to man anyway. When helper was twelve she woke me up on a Saturday morning screaming I ran into her room and she was just standing there with blood on her nighty I guessed straight away and gave her a cuddle and told her everything was ok we went and got cleaned up and I went through the ropes with her (or should that be the strings ). An hour later mom and dad came back from shopping , and when mom was alone I held a tampon in the air and said I think we’ll need more of these from now on and then patted helper on the head, mom gave her a big hug and said your moms big helper now , and that’s what it’s about just helping each other. some times people will just not see that is what you are trying to do , hopeless cases are probably just best left be, but others will take it on board and learn. If we have any children I would hope by the time they have grown this appalling test will be history and self tests will be the norm. Hugs Jules xx.
Aww. It sounds like you two are very close. I wish I’d had a big sister like you when I was growing up Jules 🤗
Hi AQ, take a look around.you have hundreds of sisters on here
Hugs Jules can
Give me strength. I’ve just come here to restore my sanity after a very frustrating couple of hours on social media seeing hysterical posts about ‘so many’ young women dying from cervical cancer and the need to lower the age limit asap, even when taking into account the harms of the test for that age group, someone telling a women who has never had sex that she still must be tested because she is nonetheless at risk and seeing cervical cancer described as a ‘huge risk to women’. This is addition to the usual shaming ‘would you rather have five minutes of awkwardness or cancer?’ rhetoric. It’s as if covid has heightened the hysteria, fearmongering and the misinformation. I feel like the push for every women to ‘step up’ and ‘take responsibility for her health’ is going to be even stronger because, as our lovely friends Eve Appeal have said, ‘covid has shown us just how important it is to take care of ourselves’. When I look to the future, I see increasingly rabid hysteria about it and feel quite despondent.
The thing is, that COVID-19 is communicable person to person with casual interaction. HPV – the cause of nearly all CC, is only transmissible by having contact with another person’s genitals. Getting a COVID shot so you don’t run the risk of transmitting it to other people is one thing. Getting an invasive exam every year, and follow-on tests and treatments which are equally invasive but also PAINFUL and damaging – combined with the notion that “women cannot feel above the lower 1/3 of their vaginas – and even then, only a little is quite another. If someone wants to avoid getting any possible HPV of CC from me, I invite that person or society to not touch my vagina!
I completely agree! It’s a false equivalence but one which seems to be taking hold, in addition to the scaremongering about how many women will now drop dead because they are a few months ‘overdue’ (in inverted commas due to the inappropriacy of that phrase) on their screenings.
Seen a few of these comments myself, but it seems to be the 20 something women. Thankfully, I’ve not seen too many older women spout this nonsense, the doubts must be creeping in by that stage over how much of it is really necessary. Seems to be a lot of first timers boasting that they’ve done it, because they’re just so desirable to men.😫. I know that Jo’s & Eve encourage young women to post about it online and it wouldn’t surprise me that first smearers get asked to do so at first appointments. “Tell your friends how good you’ve been!”
Whilst I’m assured the NHS will never lower the screening age, women’s health is earmarked for privatisation who may operate as they please, and I fear private well-woman clinics may put pressure on women to get screened more.
Sorry, I accidentally gave your comment a thumbs down! I was meaning to do the opposite. Yes, that’s an important point. How awful it would be if we adopted any kind of system resembling that in the US and some other countries where clinically useless but traumatic procedures become an annual thing. I guess that’s exactly the kind of thing that ‘check me up’ petition is pushing for.
Gem and Ada, definitely be thankful you don’t have a system in the UK like ours. The pressure on women in the US to have annual gyn exams is immense. During a recent medical visit to discuss my high blood pressure, the doctor spent probably half the time trying to persuade me to make an appointment with an ob/gyn group affiliated with his particular medical group. Then I received a confirmation in the mail confirming a telemedicine call, again regarding my blood pressure, and enclosed was a list of recommended ob/gyns. They apparently want to try to find more insurance money in my vagina. Beth has also posted about experiencing pressure to have these exams during consults for her diabetes. A truly disgusting state of affairs, that really makes one consider avoiding medical care altogether.
Hi Judy, we already have Kaiser Permanente and other US companies interested in buying sections of NHS primary care services, if they haven’t purchased them already. They pick the non-serious, everyday healthcare stuff in primary care, and women’s health with all those “essential” interventions provide rich pickings. A lot of GP surgeries outsource various procedures to private companies. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if pap smears didn’t get centred at some privately run clinic. Private gyne clinics (of which there are plenty in UK) will do a smear test from 18 years onwards and as frequently as you are prepared to pay for it. Having privatised screening in the UK, could cut 2 ways = the worried well would be getting them annually, but those not fazed by the advertising might not find themselves bothered much at all. I’m also worried that private companies might insist on employees being forced to undergo these healthchecks as part of their contracts. Seem to remember in Brazil pap smears are compulsory for female civil servants, so no being a school teacher without one.
Judy Yes, the dude filling in for my regular doctor had nothing to say about my diabetes while I was there, but he had a lot to say about why he should be allowed to penetrate my vagina. I wish I didn’t have to seek medical care at all, but sadly I cannot do that now – or risk a gruesome and slow early death. It is a consideration. Fortunately, if that happens again, I WILL go without diabetes treatment for a time if I need to, as I spend the time filing official complaints. You know, for consent violations, coercion, coercion used as a weapon to force someone to allow another to penetrate her vagina (e.g., rape), media, the ACLU, the National Women’s Law Center (the same people who took on work/pay equality in the 1970s who now has an interest in all of this), insurance company, Attorney General, etc.
https://www.salon.com/2014/08/11/women_must_undergo_pap_smears_and_virginity_tests_to_teach_in_brazil/
Teacher’s in Brazil have to undergo cervical screening.
So upsetting to read that and my heart goes out to those women. It’s assault. I wonder whether men have to undergo prostate tests. My money is on not.
I’ve seen my husband pressured into a prostate test – the depreciated digital-rectal exam. It was just as coercive as my refused pap a couple of years ago, but he gave in to the pressure. He felt sexually assaulted as much as many women do. The next time, when he pointed out that it’s no longer a recommended test, they backed off immediately.
So upsetting to read that. My heart goes out to those women because it is assault. I wonder whether men have to undergo mandatory prostate tests. My money is on not.
My understanding is that this is a state law pertaining to Sao Paolo. Is this correct?
As the article was written in 2014, I wonder if this law still exists? (I recall some furore around it when it was first reported). Given the bigoted man they have leading the country, I would guess that it does.
I saw an article published in one of our trashy newspapers today about two young women who have passed away with cancer during the lockdown. One had missed chemotherapy treatment cancelled. Neither woman had cervical cancer as far as I could tell.
However, according to the article, doctors are urging the government to treat cancer treatment with the same urgency as Covid and say that the lockdown may cost 60,000 in life years lost to cancer.
While I cannot disagree with that, my fear is that the concept of “treatment” will extend to “screening”, and cervical screening in particular.
With the NHS in dire straits, I do worry that there will now be a heavy emphasis on preventative medicine at the expense of women.
I wonder what form mandatory screening would take in this country.
While I do think that ministers might balk at legislation compelling women to undergo the procedure, I do wonder if it’s within their grasp to ensure employers monitor women’s compliance with the National Screening Programme to prove they are “up to date” with their smears.
Apparently, relevant employers such as Social Care and Health Care will be able to write compulsory covid vaccination as a condition of employment for new employees into contracts, I worry if attention will turn to cervical screening, particularly for NHS, and other public sector employers.
I guess time will tell.
AQ, I’ve been following reports of the effect of cancer treatments during COVID and of all the types of cancer discussed, breast, colon, prostate, etc, cervical cancer has been absent from all reports. Now why should that be? I believe it has been because there’s been no difference in rates. Noticeable also, has been that NHS hasn’t published uptake rates for screening for over a year now. Again, I think it is because they are so low, they don’t want to publish them for fear of the public losing trust in screening.
I’ve also seen reports of people who haven’t had end of life chemotherapy, and I don’t think we’re getting all the facts here, because there is a big debate about whether chemo for terminal cancers should happen at all. It just makes end of life even more unpleasant and many patients refuse it. It is often surviving family members who see the chance of making some cash from the NHS bashing tabloids by running those “that chemo would have saved X’s life” stories.
Yes Ada, you are right. For terminal illnesses, it is questionable whether chemotherapy would have made a substantial difference, other than prolong life for a few months. This just goes to show how effective the media is in stirring fear and manipulating the facts. My fear is that amongst this headrush for treatments, the same logic might be extended to cervical screening.
It is interesting that the stats haven’t been published by the NHS. It might be due to a mixture of the impact of the pandemic on their workloads and as you say, the very low uptake rates.
If the uptake is as low as say 45 – 50% and there is no noticeable difference in diagnosis rates, then this will really speak volumes about the “efficacy” of the programme and why they don’t want the public to know about it.
Perhaps we should instigate an FOI request for the stats! 😁
Problem w chemo are cancer stem cells. It’s hard to kill these, and the survivors develop ways to end run the treatment.
Israeli researchers have ran DNA and RNA on tumor stem cells.
Once coded, precise and lethal chemo can be customized.
Our foods also play into the inflammatory processes.
Israeli research also has shown European honeybee venom (mellitin) can destroy breast cancer in an hour.
THC does same. CBD can suppress inflammation.
Hi ladies, I have been looking at a few medical sites ,especially the rules and regulations that have to be followed by the medical profession by law. It states that if medical attention is refused even if it is a life or death situation ,the patients decision “must “be respected so if that’s the case why do they refuse to listen and accept your choice with a poor screening test . Love helper x
Hi Helper,
If you were in a 1:1 situation with your doctor and you flat out told him that you would not have a screening test, they’d have to accept it.
Their tactics focus on getting you to consent through pressure because once you’ve said yes (by any means) and have had the test, as far as they’re concerned, you’ve consented.
Not all areas of medicine are as militant as this however it seems that a clear unequivocal “no” (as per the first siruation) is the only language they understand, which is why I always advise being very brief with them, using legally technical language by always mentioning consent (or lack thereof) and threatening to escalate things when they don’t take no for an answer.
Unfortunately, they know that pressure tactics work on many women.
Hi AQ, I am getting a little nervy at the minute, as I’ve still not received my invite and it’s now playing on my mind , I need to get my invite and send my letter, to relieve this anxiety . I think the vaccination programme is the reason for the delay. Once I have been officially “opted out “ I think I will be more relaxed, until I eventually need an appointment for anything, but Jules said she would come with me anytime I have to go. She said when we go we should go dressed to the nines , hair, makeup ,lbd’s ,heels and watch his expression change when he realises he ain’t getting none of it haha. I think it’s the thought of pressure off them that’s the worst part, but with Jules there I think I’ll be ok. love helper x.
Hi Helper,
It might be a long shot but do you have the address of the screening “authority” which sends out the invitations in your area?
If so, could you write to them in advance and send a copy to your GP?
Another lady on here followed an online opt-out link and she has received written confirmation to say that she has been opted out.
I think Jan posted the link. It’s on here somewhere.
No need to wait for an invite.
https://www.csas.nhs.uk/support/pc-cs-007-002-cease-informed-consent-v3
Print out this form, fill it in, scan it and upload it here:
https://www.csas.nhs.uk/contact-us/screening-cease-info/screening-cease-nhspatient/
Useful info:
https://www.csas.nhs.uk/support/
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cervical-screening-removing-women-from-routine-invitations/ceasing-and-deferring-women-from-the-nhs-cervical-screening-programme
Many thanks jan
Helper x.
Hi AQ ,
I thought that you had to wait for an invite before you opt out. I will look into it to find out thanks AQ .
Love helper x.
Perhaps you do, I don’t know what the rules are but if you’re at the age where they’d start inviting you, it might be worth a try. I’d have a look at the opt-out link.
Daily Fail today ladies, London is sending out thousands of self tests to what they deem as “overdue” for a smear test! Usual comments lol
The resistance to self-screening because it ‘won’t be done properly’ really speaks to the level of fear-mongering that has taken hold. And, what will certain charities do? Their bread and butter is to promote the embarrassment narrative and get women to bully and shame each other. Of course, the article also made a point of making it all about silly, embarrassed women. Same old.
It’s interesting isn’t it that these fishwives are not only against themselves taking up a self-testing kit, they are against YOU and any other woman being offered the opportunity. It really smacks of the “it’s just a part of being a woman” narrative and it’s “something you’ve just got to do” as a woman. It’s seen as almost ritualistic and they don’t seem to rate progress. Very weird.
Furthermore, their ignorance on the issue is frankly quite astounding.
Rather ironic that they used to belittle “non-screeners” for their supposed ignorance and over-emotional mentality.
Yes Apocalyptic Queen! I really think that some women will be lost without the chance to belittle and shame other women into. ‘getting over themselves’, whipping off their knickers and ‘assuming the position’ at every spare opportunity. It really is like some see it all as an integral part of womanhood and self-testing will feel like a genuine loss to them. The whole ‘ignorance’ narrative has long annoyed me too. Spoken usually by women who have zero concept of the risks and benefits of screening and are themselves uneducated on the topic. Mind you, it’s hardly surprising when that narrative is promoted by ‘leading’ women’s charities and by medical professionals. I have to say, though, I’m massively concerned by the knowledge of some HCPs, judging by some of the comments I’ve seen on twitter etc. They have no idea of the risks and benefits either and genuinely believe it’s all a ‘no brainer’ and rabidly advocate for lowering the age. It doesn’t help when ‘advocates’ who are also medics hit the block button as soon as any questions are raised about the risks of screening, however politely and tactfully they are addressed. It’s just censorship to deny women their autonomy.
When I look at the comments, I note that the whole discourse around screening is subconsciously wrapped up in issues such as Christian virtue and morality.
I cannot count the number of comments suggesting women who don’t have smears are promiscuous, or questions as to why aren’t they embarrassed if they’re prepared to have sex with a “random stranger” and not gave a smear, along with the demands to know why women aren’t complying.
I’ve long thought that regulation of women’s sexual behaviour has played a part in screening, especially since the pill has become available to women.
Now, we are gradually moving away from this mindset and the charities, NHS and those with disturbing patriarchal mindsets can’t handle it and this is them throwing a strop and chucking their toys out of the pram.
I suspect there are also a few disgruntled women on there who have attended screening dilligently over the years, and are not happy that having done their duty, the ones who have stuck it out and said no to screening, are the ones being offered the self-testing option and I think they comfort themselves with the thought of, “at least, I have had mine done the right way”. Maybe they convince themselves that the self-testing option isn’t “professional” or accurate anyway.
However, I doubt the NHS will be able to restrict this option indefinitely to the “defaulters”. I suspect more and more women will ask for, and want this option if they are aware it is available and being offered to other women. Many will quite rightly question why this is available to some women and not others.
Ladies, have a look at the responses to Matt Hancock’s tweet about the self-test (mind you, he has referred to it as a ‘smear test’, so I can understand some of the confusion). The thread is full of women throwing up their hands and declaring how ‘terrifying’ it is ‘that this trial might become the norm’. It’s complete hysteria. A gift to our favourite charities who will probably start saying now that women have shown they are not in favour of self-testing.
Gosh, I’m probably over posting today but the comments about self-sampling are completely absurd. Most concerning are the health care providers spreading misinformation about how dangerous it will be for women to do it themselves because of the ‘level of expertise’ needed. I find it almost impossible to believe that they don’t know the difference between the collection of cervical cells and the HPV swab test. Very worrying. Who are these people?!
I’ve just been browsing on twitter and have been pleasantly surprised by how much many women do know about self testing. Many keen to point out Hancock’s mistake about it being a “smear test” at home. Such an idiot. Although some comments about how could a woman do this to herself at home, there are a lot of people explaining how it works to other women sensibly. I do hope this opens the floodgates, and the willingness to try it out, will mean they are forced to reconsider for the whole population. Would so love to see this cervical screening ritual topple and be removed from our lives for good. Bastards.
Same here Ada. Let the f****rs at Eve’s and Jo’s eat cake.
Vive le revolution!
Actually, I think I spoke too soon! Now see there are huge pile of thick, brainwashed women out there wondering how to ram a speculum into themselves at home. Seems mainly tabloid readers and Women’s Institute 🤮
Have any of you gotten to use the “wick on a stick” self test? What did you think?
Gem – That comment about how women are up in arms about home testing really got me going. How dare these numbf**ks presume to speak for the rest of us??!! Who do they think they are??
I’d end up saying something I regret so I’m going to take a break before I go again. Already spent some time explaining how self-testing works to the coven on the daily fail. Trying to reason with these tools is exhausting. You get some sense into one or two people and then another three come along spouting the same old nonsense.
By the way – apologies for the language used folks.
@Apocalyptic Queen
“this is them throwing a strop and chucking their toys out of the pram.”
As a boorish American, have I ever told you how enchantingly adorable I find the turns of phrase in the UK? I literally squeeeeed at this!
@ Demonhype, Aww thanks. Although to be fair, I was just looking for the politest way of describing these cretins!
@Apocalyptic Queen
Yeah,but you folks are so much more appealing in rudeness than we are at our most polite!
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/02/nhs-gives-women-hpv-home-testing-kits-to-cut-cancer-deaths/
Only 31,000 out of the 4,000,000 summons demands they send out every year? I thought nearly a 3rd of women are now saying no. They’ve got a lot more to do, but lets hope this is the start of bigger things to come. I see that these are only going to women who are 15 months “overdue” in the London area, where only about half of women go. Good to see that they are now out in the open so thst even the brainwashed can find out about them.
Hi ladies, Just checking in, and making sure you knew about the news tonight about the sending out of self tests but from the comments it looks like I’m lagging behind again. But on the bright side both myself and Jules have opted out of screening using the way jan suggested of using the online way and are waiting now for confirmation, on the downside I suppose we won’t be getting our free test kits haha. Love helper x.
Don’t worry about that, Helper, the NHS has already thought of that one! I was browsing the web the other day, and found that GPs are now incentivised (2 points on the QOF scale, I believe) to contact every 5 years, those who have opted out, and offer them a chance to rejoin the righteous flock and enjoy the pleasure of a smear test. You may get to demand a self test yet!
🤬
They are really like Glenn Close’s mad, obsessive stalker character in Fatal Attraction aren’t they?
Bunny boilers seems like an accurate description for them 🐰
Hi adawells,
I’m still sending the letter I wrote to my gp after I get my confirmation I’m out
I’m sure I could send another shorter version in 5 yrs time saying
GO F??K YOURSELF
Love helper x.
Yes adawells, and all pigs are fed and watered and ready to fly
Love helper x.
I’m glad you have both opted out! Welcome to the rebel alliance 🤪
Hope you receive an opt-out letter soon then you can have a glass of champagne to celebrate 🍾🥂😀
Just remember, you can always purchase a self-testing kit called Gynae check from Superdrug. They are recommended for the over 30s atm though as HPV tends to be transient in the under 30 age groups 🙂
I’ve just been on Twitter. It’s quite clear that most of the comments are from women with no understanding whatsoever of how a conventional smear is conducted, nevermind a self-sampling method for HPV.
They sound so ill-informed that it is almost hilarious.
It’s also awash with comments from the conspiracy theorists who think this is part of a plot to cut more services.
It’s exhausing trying to explain all this to them.
There have been quite a few men on there decrying this as well.
I’m not sure what their motives are – could be a mix of misunderstanding about the test and condescending paternalism about women not knowing what is good for them.
There was an article on the Daily Fail not so long ago about women accessing comtraception through the post and the number if men complaining that women ought to report to a doctor for the pills and be monitored, was eyebrow-raising. Same old attitudes here really.
Oh my goodness. Twitter is a nightmare right now. Still full of women in hysterics about having to ‘perform smears on themselves’. It’s horrible because women who are informed on the topic and advocating for it, including sexual violence survivors are just getting attacked. I made a comment that ‘people are uninformed’ about self-testing and was subject to a pile on. Apparently I’m patronising and a misogynist and a ‘woman-blamer’ because I’m blaming women for being uninformed (when actually, I used the word ‘people’) when they have been misled by Matt Hancock. So ironic, given the existing culture of blame and shame around screening which seems to be sacrosanct – and mostly perpetuated by women. And also, if people are unable to read the article which does actually explain that the test consists of a vaginal swab and when they still insist, even after it has all been explained to them, that it is ‘dangerous’ and ‘a disaster waiting to happen’, I think I am perfectly justified in using the word ‘uninformed’!
Hi gem, Head and wall come to mind , I’m not the sharpest knife in the draw, but this is so simplistic why is it taking them so much to understand?.
Love helper x.
You don’t give yourself enough credit Helper 🙂
The few that I have engaged positively with, the penny has dropped pretty quickly.
For some who are still indignant about being called out on their ignorance of HPV testing, they revert to, “but they shouldn’t call it a smear test”, as if that in itself, is a reason for swathes of outrage on what is, a positive development.
I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again, I’m amazed that so many women proclaiming the benefits of screening have no idea what it actually involves in practice.
They have no understanding of the methodology of screening and many are either incapable of understanding, or don’t want to understand, yet they have a bullish herd mentality, like the sort who would have relished in attending a witchcraft trial or a public execution back in the “good old days”.
It makes you wonder whether these people should be given the vote, quite frankly.
Some of it seems like wilful ignorance at this point. I just spoke to one woman who even after I explained it to her, said ‘well it’s still dangerous’. Apparently she works with nurses who take samples and are not happy about the potential changes – I’m sad to say that I can well believe that some nurses might actually not understand the issues themselves. On a more positive note, I have now had some conversations with women who have actually taken on board my explanation. Thank you for your kind words- you seem pretty sharp to me x
We have found word of mouth is useless.
When shown proof on paper however, nurses are often speechless.
You know what they say Gem, you can’t cure stupid.
Glad that you’re starting to get through to them though!
For those interested in self-testing but unablr to access the pilot, it might be worth mentioning that Gynae check is available to purchase online at Superdrug.
I’m not in the least surprised that nurses are not happy about the changes. This is a source of power (and income) that is being taken away from them.
I’m enjoying seeing this realisation dawning on them.
I’ve had better luck! I left a few replies to people last night who were adamant that this cannot be done and have had quite a few responses back, querying about self-testing & indicating that they were initially confused by use of the term “smear test”.
Once I pointed out that it was a test for HPV and NOT for cell-sampling so that it only required a basic swab, they were fine. I also mentioned that the test is used successfully in the Netherlands, Aus & NZ and has a specificity rate of around 90%.
I’ve seen one convert who is horrified that women have been undergoing speculum exams for years and a couple have contacted me about purchasing self-testing kits and the Dutch screening programme so I am pleasantly surprised.
I’m not too worried about the vociferous comments from the great unwashed on this thread any longer.
It’s abundantly clear that the comments are from women with not one iota of how screening actually works, nevermind self-sampling. However, I am shocked at how many people are completely uninformed and have zero understanding of the actual screening process. This should tell us something about the NHS propaganda machine.
I always mention informed consent is required by law and as they clearly don’t understand, legally they shouldn’t be screening anyway. That always gets a reaction – light the touch paper and walk away (i.e. mute them)!
And don’t get me started on the number of women who’ve had “pre-cancer” and “wouldn’t be here today”…..
Or the number of women who say that a smear involves a “visual inspection” so it is useful for picking up other things as well! Pointed out that this is not the purpose of a smear test and a visual inspection cannot identify the presence of cancer, cervical or otherwise. No response. Dear Lord, some of these women are complete and utter morons.
I find that quoting and throwing facts & figures from reputable sources (Angela Raffle; BMJ; Vink et al) silences the doubters – or at least, they dare not reply because they have nothing to come back at me with!
And the women who ‘were told by their doctor that they wouldn’t be here today’ – if that’s true that is outrageous but i do believe there’s a certain amount of mythology around ‘pre-cancerous cells’.
The use of the term “pre-cancerous cells” has been deliberately used over the past decades by the NHS to gaslight women into believing that CIN=”pre-cancer”.
Now that women are becoming more informed through access to journals online etc, and realise that abnormalities in the main, are just normal changes, they are being boxed into a corner.
I’m really scared by some of the statistics these women are throwing around as I have no idea how they can have come by them eg. 9% of all women get cervical cancer not caused by HPV (?!), that 10 % of cc is unrelated to HPV and that cervical cancer is the ‘biggest killer of women’. I saw that Jo’s Trust have put out a tweet about how the language used ‘raised questions’ – why can’t they just be clear and say it was plain wrong and misinformation?
Even if that statistic is true, cervical screening cannot reliably detect non-HPV related cancers. It is even more hopeless in detecting adenocarcinoma than it is in detecting squamous cell carcinoma. I wonder if these women are Eve and Jo spies infiltrating the comments sections.
Hi ladies, Has anyone thought how beneficial this could be ,with all this misinformation flying round surely a lot of women will start to query matters and search for facts and information for themselves and realise that they have been taken advantage of for decades, this in turn will lead to a split in the screening herd and could well have a domino effect and bring down the programme as it stands , to suddenly realise that an accurate test can be used as an alternative of being jacked open and being scraped by a stranger which can be achieved in privacy with no more difficulty than inserting a tampon should cause a massive outrage and unrest , i would like to bet a lot gyno’s are watching very very closely
Love helper x.
I would really hope so. I did see the penny drop with one woman who asked “So does that mean women have been subject to unnecessary speculum exams for years now?!”. However, I think some are still in denial. I was in a conversation with one woman who flatly refuses to believe that a self-swab is a viable alternative because “they wouldn’t make women spread their legs and use that awful painful contraption for no reason. It’s because they need to take cervical cells from high up in order to test for HPV”. Nothing I can say makes an impact. I think it’s a defence mechanism to protect against the awful realisation that actually, that’s exactly what has been going on for years now.
Hi gem ,
The best defence mechanism would of been all women telling them to shove it when this hellish test was first proposed
Hugs Jules x
Hey Gem. The comment from that one woman says it all. The realization that such an invasive and dehumanizing practice has been unnecessary is tremendously painful to come to terms with. To me it reads something like this… but they wouldn’t do that right? RIGHT? How could they do that?? No, it can’t be true because it’s too terrible. A lot of these people I think are right on the edge of reality, they just need time to accept it.
It’s been a tough decade for gynos. First the change in frequency of the pap from every single year to every 5 years w/ co-testing for 30+ (US), then birth control apps, and now self-HPV testing in the UK. And it’s only a matter of time before word gets out across the pond about self-testing. In another decade what will the role of the GYN be? Likely obstetrics although midwifery is becoming ever more popular as well.
Gynecology is a specialty that involves surgery. It’s a “cheap” way to become a surgeon, as it requires 1 fewer years of study than to become a general surgeon. Their real specialty is doing surgery. As is known here, the whole pap crap is designed to put us on a conveyor belt of several other procedures, before culminating in a hysterectomy. There’s a lot of gyno surgery that won’t get done with fewer pap smears! Yes, there will be some – and cancer can be detected other ways. There’s more gynecological cancers than cervical, they all have symptoms, and there are other ways of diagnosing those. There is also obstetrics, which includes many gynos with both specialties. There are midwives that can do a better job with most pregnancies and deliveries, but some cases require the physician.
My concern with self-testing is that it will also have a high false-positive rate, leading to even-more-scared women showing up “positive for cervical cancer”, and leading to as many of these painful and damaging procedures that make the gyns a lot of money.
I get your concerns.
Re false positive/negative results. Depends on what and how. Are they treating the sample as they do pap? Making a sample on glass slide? Then no better accuracy. It’s set to fail.
If the sample is exposed to PCR amplifier tech then I have good hopes
Israeli scientists have figured out a better way to separate cancer cells from blood for DNA/RNA analysis.
Overall it’s gonna eliminate the stupid cutting for biopsies.
What I feel is worse re ob-gyns, besides the pap crap, is what goes on in the delivery room. Read what women say. It’s causation for ptsd.
For what my peers experienced with vaginal birth I’m glad I had a c-section.
@bethkz My hope is that anyone that’s willing to accept the change to at home testing may already be on the path of skepticism. I’m sure many will not be, but some might. Just a few years ago there were women railing against the availability of the pill through apps and now it’s accepted. I never thought I would see the pill legally available without an exam in my lifetime and have it gain public acceptance. I’m more surprised by this than by covid.
The attitude towards hysterectomy too seems completely different than a couple decades ago. It used to be thought of as something so common it was almost natural. Like, well…I’m finished having kids so I don’t need my uterus anymore and it’s simply a liability now. Women seem to view themselves less as objects with every generation that passes. Although I don’t want to get too ahead of myself. But you know what they say, keep expectations low and be pleasantly surprised.
Hi ladies, we’ve been talking about what’s been going in the uk and how it might be the beginning of the end for this vile exam, if the self screening alternative becomes a major success, and is rolled out nationwide . would it not be possible for our sisters in the USA to follow the example of the uk and lobby their politicians and the medical hierarchy for similar change, it would be amazing if the streets were lined up with their asshole
gynos sitting on the floor holding up cardboard plaques saying , haven’t eaten caviar for three days
Malibu beach house to pay for
Porsche in desperate need of service
please give generously .
life would suddenly seem so good
I believe the term they use is
“payback”
hugs Jules x.
Let’s hope so. The self-sampling cat is out of the proverbial bag. These gynos should know that self-testing is only a matter of time. They’re not going to be able to avoid it and keep the status quo for ever!
Hi ladies,
I’ve been a little down lately as my love intrest hasn’t worked out,
(I hate men) it seems that his idea of monogamy wasn’t quite the same as mine. Jules has kept my spirits up, and we’ve been going over some of the screening Awareness Week campaign and having a laugh at the drop your pants slogan that they had to bin because of the complaints it received, who do they employ to come up with this garbage. The Guernsey screening programme have been getting a lot of criticism over this including their official accounts on Twitter and Facebook, on one post on Twitter the commenter posted why didn’t you just put. Helpyourselftomyminge. It might of got a warmer response, they really are a bunch of clowns, it just goes to show they have nothing left, ( by the way did I mention I hate men ) I have missed you all but I’m back now, love Helper xx.
(Ps. I hate men).
Hi ladies,
If the cervical screening programme ends up in tatters and self screening takes over, please tell me that this will not be the end of this amazing site with all you incredible women so many have contributed with so much over the years, and deserve praise, recognition and thanks, and I for one look upon all of you fondly and as friends and would hate to see that end.
Love helper xx.
I don’t think there’s any reason to close shop. Even if the UK program falls, there’s still programs in the US and Canada and other places, and worse, countries where its mandatory for all women (I heard India mandates pap smears) and many countries that require it for any woman in public service including teachers, and Poland once attempted to mandate it for all women as a requirement to be employed and is still pretty gung ho in that direction.
There’s still a lot of battles to be fought! Don’t think for a moment that if it falls one place,there won’t be some kind of extinction burst from the gyn industry, esp in countries where it hasn’t yet gotten hit as hard. Look out for attempts to start mandating it for employment, as they did with drug testing,another baseless invasive highly inaccurate screening test forced on society eith zero evidence in the middle of a public panic that places no consequences on the inaccuracy or failure of the test industry, thereby making it immune to failure, and relies on an emotional security blanket mentality to further insulate it from attack (after all, “everyone knows” that it works and that no drug-free citizen coukd possibly oppose it!), that continues anyway despite the fact that a non-invasive and far more accurate and effective method exists. (Predictive Safety Alert Meter).
In either case, this is a fight against a well-funded industry of charlatans who will use every resource they purchased with their ill-gotten billions to avoid losing their easy money train and having to go get a real job.
Hi Demonhype,
Your right still a lot to do
a relieved helper x
Hi ladies,
Well the waiting is over, the confirmation letters have come in this mornings post with regards to our opt out , and now no doubt we will be tarred with the “militant dissenters label” at our local surgery (marvellous) I can’t help feeling that this is the best decision helper could of made she probably comes across as quite outgoing and confident, but when you get to know her she is really quite a sensitive soul (if anybody watches the programme Long lost families she spends most of it crying). I really believe that she would of suffered a mental trauma of sorts if she had attended screening, I have my own agenda for opting out, but am not at a stage to talk about it yet. But besides that, know we will be forever indebted to you all for your guidance and information,you are all exceptional women and a credit to your cause. Hugs Jules xx.
Wow – so soon! Congratulations!! 😀 🥂 🍾
Hi kat,
We sent the emails on feb 22 and received the letters on the 1 march maybe they have realised the game is up and are just getting on with it. Helper has been at work the last two days they are having to disinfect and sanitize the salon ready for reopening on the 12th, that reminds me, if the schools restart on the 8th make sure you take care, fweo need all its front line troops now women are starting to question screening.we plan on a girly night in on Friday to celebrate we are planning on watching dirty dancing (my favourite) followed by mama Mia(helpers favourite) and plenty of chianti. Hugs Jules x.
Sorry AQ,
Got you mixed up with kat, I was trying to finish off something for work , (deadline)and was not paying enough attention thanks for your congratulations “we’re glad to be in the club”.
Jules – Ah, So lovely that you two get on so well and are a great source of moral support for each other 🤗
So glad you have both managed to opt out – I never knew the NHS Screening “service” could be so efficient haha!
If you’re having a night in, don’t forget the chocolate 🍫 😋
Wow. I’ve just come across a few pages on women vs male gynaecologists on Twitter.
I started off with the odd like or tweet in support of someone’s stance on being able to choose female gynaecologists and now it has errupted into a full blown argument (that probably doesn’t come as a surprise to most of you by now lol 😂).
There is only the odd male commenting here and there on the issue which I think shows they are in the minority on this one.
However, I suspect that those who are engaging most vociferously are male medical students who have had a nerve touched and are trying to justify or validate their beliefs.
What is unbelievably striking is the lack of empathy shown by these individuals and complete disregard for the wellbeing of the patient. Indeed, in my opinion, they are bordering on the sociopathic.
The lengths that these odious individuals are going to, to justify the lack of choice for women patients is staggering, even going so far as to suggest that rather than give women a choice, cameras should be installed to monitor malpractice!
I get that some women will choose a male gynaecologist and that’s their right but the sense of entitlement over a woman’s body in the Twitter comments is frankly obscene.
Clearly, there is still a lot of work to do and also, in trying to push the self-testing message to our American and Canadian friends.
No doubt those psychos would love having gynecological exams on film. That used to be a crime they could be jailed for but now it’s “for the woman’s protection.” The same old sentiment meant to mask the same old abuse.
Hi ladies, that must be the reason dr Nikita levy video taped most of his patients because he did not want to be accused of malpractice,
NOT. The real reason they go into this profession is simple, for access to women and plenty of them. Hugs Jules x.
Hi AQ,
This is absolutely fantastic to hear that they are turning on each other it’s normally us, I wonder if “someone “ were to throw more fuel on the fire how bad it might get
“lol”. Hugs Jules x
I’m having one of those days when I’m just mad at the medical establishment. There’s no reason for me to see a doctor, but, I know it’s irrational, I’d nearly LIKE to have a (small) reason to go and then tell the doctor off at the slightest misstep, get up and leave in some grand dramatic gesture and somehow… in some way… have a target for my madness, because now it’s all boiling inside me and there’s no outlet because people around me just don’t understand. They think I’m hysterical, at best traumatized, and should get a grip/therapy. Talking to them is not helpful, it’s invalidating.
There’s nothing that pisses me off more. As if we’re too stupid to know bad from good.
Take something in print that says how bs pap really is. Hand it over, explaining you wouldn’t be believed otherwise.
Let the bookworms propaganda be poisoned by medical print proving they’re wrong.
Humbling for them. Freeing for you.
I know what you mean, Constance.
I went through this 15 or 20 years ago. I was so mad at how I had been treated by the medical profession that it was hard for me to function day-to-day. And I was so upset that other women had also been treated so incredibly poorly.
It takes years (decades even) to get past that level of frustration at the normalness of the abuse and control of women by doctors and other ‘sheepie’ women (women who believe everything doctors spout, and how they expect the rest of us to be so blindly compliant too!).
I’m able to step back now and just shake my head at the poor attitudes of doctors and how deficient their training is when it comes to treating women – and most especially over female problems.
You’ll reach an emotional place where you feel better to cope with all this, but its a process and it can take years.
You’ll also become quietly confident at walking into a doctors office and being able to control what happens to you. Controlling what you will allow them to do, and what you won’t.
You will now have a highly sensitive bullshit radar!
You will be able to squash their demands for paps and mammos, and return your consult to what you actually went there for!
I have days…. and weeks… where I’m just mad at the medical establishment. I’ve gone through a period of close to a year where my entire life was medicalized – going from appointment to appointment every day for one thing or other – a cascade that came from a car accident! I’d get conflicting advice, they didn’t listen to anything (like when I complained that I’d walked 3 miles to go to physical therapy, where they had me run a arm-bicycle so I’d have “some exercise – since you’re “inactive”). I told them where to put the arm-bicycle as I walked another 3 miles home. Inactive…. Yeah.
As I get older, they seem to have a big problem with consent – let alone “informed consent”. I’ve got an upcoming appointment, and am slightly around the bend from that. On the pap crap, they get politely told once, reminded that my refusal is in my chart, and that I’m offended by the question. The second time, I point out that I did not come to talk about my vagina, this is an attempt to undermine my bodily autonomy, and penetration of my vagina and/or anus is not up for debate. The law is very clear that anyone can refuse any medical treatment – even ones that immediately needed for life – such as a blood transfusion in an emergency. The third time I walk out and start lodging complaints. That could include the police, the insurance company, the attorney general (I didn’t get what I’d contracted for), the media, the National Women’s Law Center, a private attorney, the State licensing board, city counsel which gives the hospital its occupancy permit…
I’ve had to get to a point where I’m willing to walk out with no prescriptions to treat either my diabetes or thyroid problems. Diabetes is the #7 cause of death in the US, so you abandon a patient because they refuse an OPTIONAL SCREENING TEST??? That is utterly ludicrous! Any of the above people to issue complaints with would see it the same way.
Fortunately, I wouldn’t have to go very long. I’ve got copies of the test results. Go to a “doc in a box” through a pharmacy chain, find an online doctor to Skype with or phone-visit, or even now I can go to Mexico to get medication OTC.
It’s ludicrous that just because I’m a silly woman – and one with PTSD at that – that I’ve got to be willing to go to such lengths for basic medical care.
Hi ladies,
Wow it’s a shock to the system to go back to work after so much time off, but I have a plan when the clients come back on the 12th I am going to act as advocate for the cause by causualy mentioning the introduction of self testing how easy it is how accurate it is , and how much less invasive it will be compared to a clinic visit, I’m going to try this with all of them maybe I can convert some of them or at least get them think about it. Anyway we are going to get totally drunk tonight to celebrate our new found freedom from paps, sorry AQ we don’t really do chocolate, I’m afraid our passion is icecream (lots of it)
the only trouble is the waist and hip damage, but what the hell were celebrating haha love helper xx.
Wow I’m so glad for this site. I went in for the annual physical with my female doctor. I had always gone somewhere else for gynecological reasons to another woman Dr. So when the male nurse ,Rudy who I like very much came in to do weight and blood pressure, THE FIRST QUESTION WAS….( and you old timers know what it’s going to be )… date of last pap? I never thought about it much before this site. So I asked Rudy, if when men come in do they get asked about the date of their last prostate exam. To be honest I don’t even remember what he said.
But when the Dr came in and said ” so you are going to your gynecologist for your woman wellness exam”, at this point I just said yes because I didn’t want to get into it right now. I need to have my data ready and I’m still learning. There is a lot here to read. But I asked her the same question. “do you ask men about the date of their last prostate exam and why aren’t there Men Wellness Exams?” She said well if a man was showing symptoms, then she would pull out the gloves and go in the rectum and that happens here at the annual physical. I asked why if a woman isn’t showing symptoms then why are they wanting to do pap smears. She said because it’s a screening process. I then said that I heard cervical cancer is low anyway. She says yes because of the screening. So I’m seeing directly what you are all talking about.
I wonder if she knows the father of gynecology was a white slave owner who practiced without anesthesia on his slaves to develop the techniques.
Good on you, Vegan! You’re now much more aware of the lies and abuse from doctors and you can speak up and defend yourself. Questioning what happens to you and not blindly accepting things anymore is great.
Research everything, read papers, trawl the internet, take on board what we say here, and you’ll be in control of your own health.
Those answers she gave you are pure BS, and my blood is boiling right now. There IS a screening test for prostate cancer screening (the PSA ;blood test) as well as the digital rectal exam – but they are not recommended because they cause harm. They often lead to painful unnecessary biopsies, surgeries and treatment for a cancer that may never have bothered a man in his lifetime. You know, very similar harms (which we’re not told about) to the pap smears and mammograms that are pushed on us at every turn. The difference is men are protected from the harms of screening and we are not! It just makes me livid.
My husband refuses prostate exams. He does allow PSA blood tests. Accurate or not better than nothing. He gets testosterone which is reason to test.
“Cycling” or flushing the prostate 21x or more monthly, taking aspirin and zinc daily plus high omega 3 diet, tofu, very little meat, protects.
And here’s a tip – you don’t need an annual physical or wellness exam. We don’t do them here in Australia. Research has shown it’s poor at finding anything, and it gives you false confidence that you are ‘fine’ until your next annual.
I wouldn’t go annually, but I would recommend being aware of how your body feels and deciding what you think doesn’t seem right and bringing it up with a doctor if need be (while still dodging the stupid demands for paps, mammals and pelvic exams).
I meant ‘mammos’, not mammals!!! Stupid auto-correct….. :-p
I’m on a roll this morning….. 🙂
I researched the incidence rates and deaths of cervical cancer here in Australia over the years, and I was shocked at what I found. I’m a biologist, btw.
Before the cervical screening program, the deaths from cervical cancer occured at the same rate as brain tumours. That was 700 to 900 women every year in Australia died from brain tumours and cervical cancer (700 to 900 for each of them).
After the cervical screening program was introduced, the number of deaths from cervical cancer per year dropped to 500 to 700 per year.
So the screening program was saving on average 200 women per year from dying from cervical cancer.
To do that, we have insisted and forced that about 8 million women in Australia of the appropriate age (from teens to their 70’s – there are currently 12 million females in total here in Australia according to the last census) get a pap to find these 200 women per year who can be saved.
Cervical cancer is a rare cancer. So rare that testing for it just isn’t logical.
Doctors will pat you on the head comfortingly and laugh at you if you walk into a consult and say you want to be screened for brain tumours. They’ll tell you they are very rare and you shouldn’t worry about it.
But in the same breath they’ll ask you when your last pap was and insist you need to be screened.
For a cancer that is as rare as brain tumours.
Doesn’t add up, does it?
Oz – I would even question if the full 200 was down to the screening programme.
Rates have been steadily declining even before screening was introduced.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of this decline was due to awareness of things like HPV.
In the 80s in the UK, there was a massive awareness campaign around AIDS & the dangers of unprotected sex which might have played a role in safer sex practices.
A way of demonstrating this I guess would be looking at reported rates of STIs to also see if there was a corresponding decline.
Some articles suggest there has been no discernible improvement yo mortality rates as a result of cervical screening.
Oh I love that. Maybe I’ll ask for a brain tumor test. LOL! And pull out data that it’s the same amount of people that get it. Despite being vegan for almost 8 years I still have high blood pressure and she wants to monitor that for medication. And I get the blood tests but they don’t go far enough. Like testing for hormone levels, something that affects women far more than the stupid pap smear tests.
Hi ladies,
I know that now we are “opted out” it will or should stop invites arriving, but as many know this does not stop them trying it on during clinic visits ,by asking “if we have changed our minds about screening “”or would we like to reconsider “or question our decision, so I have been thinking of ways to combat them on this, and think I’ve come up with a winner, be polite (I know it go’s against the grain) and tell them that you have officially opted out of screening , if they mention it again just remind them of your first answer , if they persist this is the turning point,demand they give you their full name and NHS registration number as you would not like to get anything wrong on the complaint form , and then tell them to go and fetch one, the power dynamics will be a complete turnaround, it’s they who would feel threatened and subservient for a change, use their own tactics on them.this should work on doctors, nurse practitioners or anyone else there that questions your informed decision , I’m sure that once the word gets round the clinic about your “attitude “ that you will be left well alone.
Hugs Jules xx.
Yes, that’s probably a good idea. Don’t give them any explanations, just tell them you have opted out, all the while with a big smile on your face 😁
Hi ladies,
Could one of you knowledgeable ladies help out with this, all of us have our own beauty regime that helps us to feel good. Mine is a hot bath with scented candles followed by a rub down with body butter cream this helps me wind down from a rough day at work. Helpers idea is similar but she usually goes a step further plucking eyebrows shaving legs, armpits and “other areas “ the whole nine yards, but instead of cream she uses talcum powder, this is why I would like your input, I have just read that talcum has been linked to ovarian cancer if it’s used on your “sensitive areas “. Is this the case, is this a proven research, and if it is why are there no public warnings around, I have read that it is no longer for sale in the USA or Canada this is all new to me as this is the first time I have come across this info, help please
Hugs Jules x.
It’s a small, but established increase in risk. In Europe, there’s probably no warning on it because nobody bothered to fight for it. There are powders available without talc, like Burt’s Bees or Lush.
In the US there have been well publicized warnings for years about women
using talc in their underwear. Johnson & Johnson, a major manufacturer of baby powder, has been successfully sued in class action lawsuits by women with ovarian cancer. Apparently talc contains asbestos, which can cause ovarian and other cancers. As a result talcum powder has become quite hard to find in the stores here.
Corn starch powder makes an effective substitute.
On talc, use of it was linked to cancer because of where it is mined, and it often contains asbestos, a known carcinogen. In 1976, the Cosmetic, It has been associated with increased incidence of uterine and endometrial cancer in the distant past. In 1976, the Cosmetic, Toiletry, and Fragrances Association (CTFA), which is the trade association representing the cosmetic and personal care products industry, issued voluntary guidelines stating that all talc used in cosmetic products in the United States should be free from detectable amounts of asbestos according to their standards.
Any on the market in the US, and other countries with similar standards or suppliers, should not contain detectable asbestos.
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/talcum-powder-and-cancer.html
https://www.ajmc.com/view/jama-study-finds-no-link-between-talc-powder-ovarian-cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621109/
So, from the looks of this research, going back well over a decade, seems to say if you like talc and want to use it, go ahead. If you don’t like it and don’t want to use it, it’s NOT because it “causes cancer”. The evidence seems quite week – at least since they got the asbestos out in 1976. However, don’t use it from containers that have been on the shelf for 50 years. 🙂
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/02/nhs-gives-women-hpv-home-testing-kits-to-cut-cancer-deaths/
Just seen some good news that miniature cameras which can be swallowed might soon be a replacement for endoscopies and colonoscopies. The tiny devices transmit images as they go through the gut by a sensor worn as a belt for a day. Really good news for these horrible tests, and shows how quickly screening can be made into an acceptable test when men are on the receiving end. But why so tardy with HPV self-testing? I’m wondering how many of those HPV self-tests have been returned so far? But, can’t get too excited about this, as it is only a study set to run until December this year. After that, it will take a year to write up the results and maybe put into practice… I think women need to boycott this test in droves to force them to speed things up.
This was from me. Not sure how I came up as Anonymous.
Thanks so much ladies, helper was a little upset last night when I showed her the cancer links but she has only been using it for a couple of years so any risk should be minimal, she had a clear out last night and now the flat is talc free. many thanks for all your replies.
Hugs Jules x
Hi ladies,
Just read an article in the sun on Sunday about the girls aloud singer Sarah Harding,it seems that she has breast cancer which lead to a mastectomy at the age of 39. I find this upsetting as it doesn’t seem that long ago me and my friends used to dance away to this group at the school disco , very sad but in the article the cancer charity coppafeel have made the most of this opportunity,the head of this organisation Baroness Delyth Morgan said that 11,000 in the uk could have undiagnosed cancer due to the pandemic ,they really do love a martyr and scare tactics if it highlights publicity for themselves don’t they she’s now urging people to get checked out , she’s probably in cahoots with the doctors who will see a drastic fall in women’s checks if self testing takes off, and is trying pacify them with a few boobies instead, they just don’t give up do they. Love helper x.
I just saw a comment over on Mumsnet about mass covid testing in asymptotic ppl: mass testing asymptotic ppl is a nonsense and the comment writer is very worried where this is going
Is the same not true of smears??!!
It’s true, Kat, the Innova lateral flow tests we’ve been given for NHS staff are not licenced for asymptomatic people and only give partial accuracy for those with symptoms, so someone at Innova is making huge sums of money for tests which don’t work very well, but that’s been the COVID pandemic all over hasn’t. As NHS staff I’ve been given a box to do twice weekly with nasal swabs. Not sticking them anywhere else, that’s for sure. A lot of people saying it’s a waste of money, but I’ve been doing my tests anyway if it’s not anywhere invasive. I’d draw the line at that.
On the issue of pointless tests Kat, I wanted to ask if your daughter has received her pink cervical screening blackmail letter yet? My daughter is 24 this year, and I fear the summons will be coming this year. Not sure what she’ll do as many of her friends are older.
Ada, same, as a school worker I’ve been doing the tests too twice a week, though I refuse point blank to report results to test and trace. It’s not pleasant is it??
Funny you should say, my daughter hasn’t had her first “invitation “ yet and she must be about due. She lives in Wales, not sure what’s going on there. She has said she won’t be going even when she does get it
On another note, is it true that they’ve suspended the one off bowel scope screening?? I read they couldn’t get enough staff to do the screening?
Stay safe all x
I don’t know about the bowel screening, but I think this may resume soon as a big effort going on to get staff back from COVID support to the other things which have been left, so I bet they’ll be pushing the screening again soon. I did read in a GP magazine that they are doubling QOF points for cervical screening to get it back up to date again. I also spotted that 2 points are awarded for contacting a ceased decliner every 5 years to tempt them to reconsider, but also, interestingly, 2 points are also awarded for having “that chat” with someone who has decided to decline anyway. I would be interested to hear from people on this site if this is true or not. It does mean that GPs can still hit targets and get their dosh even if women decline and opt out, so a bit of progress, I suppose 😑
Ada, I opted out in 2015 and would have been “due” for a smear in 2020 if I’d stayed in the programme. I had heard about the letters practices send and was half expecting one last year as it would be 5 years. Whether my practice have held off due to covid, or whether it’s finally sunk in I will never go, I don’t know
Incidentally on Tuesday I was “invited” by text from my surgery to book my covid vaccine which is today. I have serious concerns but I’m going. I wondered if they’d appointed a screening czar to try and persuade non screeners to have a smear while on phone booking for the vaccine but no, nothing happened!!
Hi ladies,
On the news this morning the government are “considering “ whether to make the corona jab compulsory for care home workers, if this happens what next ? , I’ll bet the screening authorities mouths are watering thinking of all those bonuses if this can be applied to female healthcare .
So much for bodily autonomy
Hugs Jules x.
Not sure if they could do that though. It could be argued for vaccines, except maybe the hpv vaccine that protects against something that can’t be sneezed into another person’s face, since its a contagious and deadly disease (note I’m not approving of compulsory jabs, just pointing something out), but for women’s health which is largely focused on elective cancer screening?
Of course,in the US we have the ADA, which means that an employer may only impose medical exams or procedures upon employees if it directly relates to their ability to do their job, and while they may impose any medical exam they like on potential hires, including things not related to the job, if complaints are made the burden is on them to prove that they aren’t using that extraneous and unnecessary data to deny employment based on.disability, including concerns based on assumed potential health insurance premiums/claims, or based on assumptions of potential absenteeism. And you don’t gave to be disabled to report them! So if your employer or prospective employer is requiring you get your testified or vagina medically fondled, or unnecessary bloodwork done, etc, crap that has nothing whatsoever to do with your ability to do the job, make a compaint to the EEOC today!
Thanks to both the elder and younger Bush administrations!
So while it might be possible to require it for public service jobs here, on the basis of safety, I’m.not 100% how far they could take it. A lot of folks work from.home now.
Hi ladies,
The compulsory jab for care home workers was on the 8 oclock BBC morning news, by Matt Hancock . I kept my eye on the news all day but did not hear it mentioned again, I hope they don’t think that they could sneak this through as it could have major implications for others, such as ourselves .by altering the laws and human rights act this would remove the safety net we have of autonomy and free choice,I think it might be time for battle stations,this proposal cannot be allowed to go ahead,there must be a show of strong opposition to quash it in its tracks, they have gotten too big for their boots this time, it may be time to go to war, rolling pins at the ready girls.
Hugs Jules x.
I’m following this too, both personally and as a Trades Union Officer, I’ve even seen employers calling for powers to discipline workers of they refuse to do the lateral flow tests on demand!
As to screening, I’m not sure. If they just imposed it on women, it could be argued men get bowel cancer too so they should do the shit kit by law and be subject to the same penalties as non smearers or non boob nukers!
Also only just noted an appalling Mumsnet thread from 3 months ago, a 26 yr old woman asking is she unreasonable to complain about the way she was ambushed into a smear and the appalling way it was given, and also that nursey was really cutting about her weight. The comments were back to the be grateful and sick it up sort. Vile. Stay safe all x
Sorry to see that sort of behavoiur is still going on, Kat. Would have said that’s just typical if you’d said it was from 30 years ago, not 3 months ago. Just goes to show we still need to get out there and keep emphasising that this test is voluntary and coercion shouldn’t ever be used. I seem to have read somewhere recently that GP points for cervical screening targets have been doubled to re-invigorate the programme post-Covid rather than let it slip, so women could be in for a tough time for a while.
Off topic but it made me laugh, for once Boris had told the truth when he said capitalism and greed is behind the successful British vaccination programme lol!!( For anyone wondering I’m now a complete anarchist aged 57……)!?
Jules I think it couldbe made mandatory for new employees to have the vaccine, but those already in post it might be harder as it’s not written into the old contracts? Such a big change in what’s basically working conditions would require a review and discussion, most probably with the Unions. Of course this government has no respect for workers or even humans and their rights so you could be right… I’ll find my rolling pin!!!!
Tried to have a breast ultrasound today (checking my implants), said on the phone when making the appointment that I want to talk about my implants/breasts/ultrasound ONLY. Enter gynecologist: Same old, same old. “Why don’t you have paps? Did you EVER have a pap? Well, I need to ASK at least!”. Told him I felt not respected and left without the ultrasound. Will try another MD in a few weeks… what does he think he has achieved? He certainly hasn’t improved my health! (This is Constance with the mushroom in the Twitter avatar – I can’t log in here via Twitter, it always tells me the link expired.)
Good on you for leaving! It takes guts to stand up to the bullying. Hope you find a better MD!
If your in the US I wonder if you could have the images done at another doctor besides a Gynecologist. Someone less likely to push paps.
This is probably something to keep an eye out for in future – opportunist ‘screening’ at a vaccination clinic for AF .
It isn’t passed by the UKNSC https://legacyscreening.phe.org.uk/atrialfibrillation – it is being funded by a charity https://www.heartrhythmalliance.org/afa/uk/news/af-association-rolls-out-opportunistic-af-screening-at-covid-19-vaccine-centres There is already a national trial for this in place.
It seems like some charities take over when they don’t get the answer they want from govt. They get a chance to ‘educate’ and they are in there. Since they all do musical chairs in the board room, they are all using similar methods to get their foot in the door.
It feels like no part of the medical industry is immune.
A couple of weeks ago, I went to a skin clinic to get a couple of dodgy moles on my shoulder checked. The female nurse was lovely and said that she thought the moles should both come off (after getting a colleague to have a look to confirm). An appointment was booked with a male doctor. The nurse then mentioned that because I have a lot of moles, the doctor would want to do a full body top to toe check to make sure there were no other moles of concern before removing the dodgy ones.
Me: I know my body, these 2 moles are the only ones I’m concerned about, I don’t need a full body check
Nurse: Probably still a good idea
Me: I only want these moles looked at
Nurse: You can keep your bra and undies on and the doctor can lift them to the side to check. You can have a chaperone. The doctor is very quick and professional blah blah blah…..
Me: Just these moles
Nurse: Discuss it with the doctor when you see him.
I have my appointment this week and already I am feeling anxious about what should have been a straightforward mole removal. I’m prepared to stick to ‘these moles only thanks’ but makes me angry yet again at having to even have the discussion!!!
Like you can’t see your own skin yourself!
I was so impressed when my dermatologist told me I didn’t need annual skin checks, she simply said if I see anything new and was concerned, make an appt.
Not something you hear very often with the “check-everything-just-in-case” approach these days
I have vitiligo and see her every few years, I’m amazed it’s a 5-6 month wait to see her these days, she complained at my last appt, “I have so many here for skin checks, I don’t have a lot of time for patients with actual skin issues. I’m really not a fan of medical fishing expeditions, after a certain age, they’re bound to find all sorts of things – things that don’t need to be found!
Pleased it went well, Bec
You’ve had several of these already. Right? So glad you finally get a break AND you have a doctor that gives relevant medical advice.
What we deserve to hear more often.
My turn next…
Please let us know how you get on, Bec. Tell’em where to go if they get overpowering.
Hi Bec,
Just ware a top such as an off the shoulder number, or if this has to be removed have something like a sports bra underneath, and refuse to remove anything else, tell them you have no other concerns other than these moles on your shoulder and this should be the focus of their attention, if they start to make you uncomfortable they may need to be reminded of a patients rights of refusal, everyone on here is behind you and wish you well.
Hugs Jules x.
Thanks everyone for your support! Went okay because I firmly but nicely reiterated that I only wanted the 2 moles removed.
When I arrived, I had to fill in a consent form and I just put a line through all the stuff about a chaperone and understanding that the check would be done in underwear etc and wrote N/A, 2 moles on my shoulder. The receptionist said “Oh, so you don’t want the full body check then?” I said no thanks, the form was given to the doctor who didn’t question me further.
Yay, feeling better and stronger for the next time I need to say no. Have a nice day everyone!
So happy for you, Bec! Good on you. Every time we express our decision and back it to up, it’s helping doctors realise they need to respect the wishes of women. We’re not there to just have things done to us. We have a say and we’ll stand up for our rights until respecting us becomes automatic, not something we have to fight for.
Well done Bec and I’m glad it went well for you. 17 year old me also thanks you. At that age I was made to completely strip off by a male doctor, despite my protestations, when I went for an appointment about facial acne ‘to see if it was anywhere else’. I found it deeply traumatic and it taught me that my wishes did not matter and I had no bodily autonomy. Until the day when patients are routinely able to give free and fully informed consent and this is properly taught in training institutions, people such as yourself making a stand are making a key contribution to a much needed cultural shift in medicine. Not that the onus should have been on you in the first place, but well done nonetheless x
Take your partner along and ask lots of questions.
Interrupt the doctor’s rhythm don’t let him/her enjoy doing the exam.
Ask why parts of exam are medically justified especially if your appointment was for something else not even remotely related to your vagina.
Be aware. I have heard of some dermatology clinics taking full nude body photos to “compare” year to year. I might suggest you take a photo of only areas of concern at home and bring them to the clinic if changes are to be looked for over time.
I had a skin checkup at a chain/franchise skin clinic after a BCC was removed from my eyelid. The surgeon said go get the rest of your skin checked as there’s usually more than one.
It was a disaster.
The check itself was fine, it was everything afterwards that sucked.
At the front desk the receptionist said the doctor wanted to see me in 6 months, so they’ll make an appointment now.
I said no thank you. Don’t send me reminders and I’m not making another appointment.
The receptionist didn’t like that. She then suggested making an appointment for 12 months.
I said no, if I feel the need for it I’ll contact you. I wasn’t making a pre-booked appointment. Don’t contact me.
She didn’t like that, but she nodded, I paid and left.
Six months later I got a phone call saying I must come in for a check up. I said I told you, no calls, no checkups, no appointments.
The lady said, oh sorry, won’t call you again.
A month later I got another phone call. I again said I’m not coming in and you told me you wouldn’t call me. Again, sorry, we’ll make a note of that.
A few weeks later, another call. Then another, and another, on and on.
Finally I blew my top and told them to remove my number from their records. They said they couldn’t.
I got another phone call. I demanded to speak to the owner. Got him on the phone, he apologized and agreed the calls were over the top, and agreed with me to remove my contact details.
Then I got another phone call a month later!
I went nuts, yelling, blowing up at them, you name it. Obviously they didn’t remove my details as they were STILL CALLING ME!
Got the owner on the phone again, blew up at him. This time they said they would remove my details. I said I don’t believe you, the calls keep coming, this won’t stop, I’m never coming back and this is illegal harassment and I’m making a complaint with the AMA.
I then blocked one of their numbers they were using, but I couldn’t block their private number.
I haven’t had another call since, so obviously they gave up. This is a chain skin cancer clinic in Sydney. I left a Google review saying what had happened to me, and warning people to not go to them. I’ll never go to one of these things again. I’ll get my boyfriend to look at the places I can’t see on my back and leave it at that!
Hi Bec. So glad it went well. I was rooting for you. By standing firm you are helping the next young woman coming along.
x
Congrats Bec on only receiving the treatment you wanted.
Hi ladies! Hope you’re all ok?
Maybe times r a changing! My daughter is 25 next month and living in Wales. She is adamant she wants no kids, and recently changed doctors. She still hasn’t been “invited “ for her 1st smear. Today she went for a copper coil fitting (don’t get me started) and proposes to get the Pill privately! I was convinced they’d offer her a smear today while they were “in the area “ but it wasn’t even mentioned!!
OMG sounds like a baptism of fire! I hope it all went well for her and they treated her kindly?
Incidentally she had decided against having smears, and was relieved it wasn’t brought up, though I think she’d of stood her ground and refused if necessary
Ada yes, the smear word wasn’t mentioned, and she said she just felt a pinch as it went in!
She was half expecting the offer of a smear, I think she was relieved it wasn’t offered, though she wouldn’t have given in and had one!
That’s amazing! I’ve read female doctors complaining they found the process extremely painful when they had an IUD inserted and were taken aback how painful it was. Glad it went OK for your daughter.
Thanks Ada! Hopefully it won’t cause her any problems now it’s in. Can’t say I’m thrilled but it’s her choice….
You’re a good mum.
Glad it all went well! My sister needed her IUD changed, and she opted to have it done at a special womens clinic with sedation, as the original insertion without sedation was quite painful. She had intravenous twilight sedation.
She said it was so much nicer being off with the fairies! I think women should be offered the sedation, but we all know what doctors are like about that – womens pain doesnt exist and we should just suck it up. :-p
Great for her!
If you ever must get endometrial biopsy done insist on this sedation.
Yes, I’ve heard those are awful. I only know one person who has had one. They don’t seem to be done very often here in Australia. From what I’ve been reading they’re much more common in America. They seem to do them for the slightest reason.
No one is doing that to me unless I’m knocked out!!!
Think its disgusting how they tell women its just uncomfortable with a quick pinch! What rot, most women describe it as the most painful thing they’ve ever had, like torture.
Hi kat,
Just visiting the site to see what’s new, and kudos to you in regards to your posts on your daughter, this shows the women on here do not impose their own will on others, and just try to educate them to make their own decisions, although you wrote that you weren’t happy about it ,you also said it was her decision and respected it , as Adawells said your a good mum
Hugs Jules x.
Thank you Ada and Jules!!