This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
And a big thank you to all the women here, including Sue who’s site it is, for all the help, advice and friendship over the years! I truly value this site, and the ppl on it x
Hi ladies (and Alex), It’s been ages since I’ve been here and you probably don’t remember me. But you were always very supportive of me and helped me through me fears and trauma over being pressured into unwanted paps and exams -in which I have never surrendered! I still support your cause. I just been busy with life and haven’t had time to check in. But I just really have something non-gyno related to ask you. You are all very intelligent on the subject of medical coercion so I’d like to turn to you to ask for your insight. What are your thoughts on Covid-19, the pandemic, the vaccine? What are your thoughts on the vaccine, in particular? I don’t know if I trust this rushed vaccine, especially when I’m low risk. People around me keep pressuring me so much about this that I wish they’d go back to talking about pap smears! Really been feeling twinges of anger at the man I love for getting one, especially when he never bought into the fear mongering before. But his nurse mother basically forces it on him. UGHH!
I’ve had both jabs of the Pfizer vaccine. I work in a hospital which has had some big spikes and I have some high risk family members at home. In fact my 93 year mother got COVID and is now very well, fortunately. I don’t think my husband would be nearly so fortunate somehow, so I was glad to get it done and much reduce the risk of bringing the virus home. I’m quite OK if people choose not to have it. It makes no difference to me either way.
COVID, or anything airborne which causes a serious, and in some cases fatal illness is a lot different that cervical cancer. If someone wants to avoid getting HPV, the only types of CC they routinely test for, they are invited to stay out of my vagina. I cannot insist that people who may not wish to get COVID-19 from me refrain from sharing airspace with me – unless I completely stay in my home and have no one outside my home come in.
In the US, there are over 600,000 “excess deaths” in 2020 over the past several years. What’s the difference between 2020 and prior years? Duh? FWIW, this is well over the military deaths during the 4 years of World War 2, in just over a year! Compare this to the 4100 or so women who die of CC each year in the US, and the CC is NOTHING.
As you cannot prevent someone from re-breathing the air you’ve exhaled, you’ve still got a choice. You can get the vaccine – and there are several to choose from depending on what country or what area you are in. Or, you can stay out of the public space. Get your supplies delivered, and pay for them electronically. Otherwise, you are participating in reckless spreading of the virus – potentially killing some, potentially causing millions of dollars of medical expenses for some people who get it, possibly causing lifetime disability for some. And… they can sequence the genes in viruses, so it can be determined where the person got the virus – leading to a huge personal injury suit. Insurance or governments won’t be interested in paying when there is an identifiable responsible party from whom to get payment.
If your SO has had one, he is partly protecting YOU from him bringing SARS-CoV-2 into your home, potentially infecting you. These messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines are theoretically impossible to “shed virus” from, since they contain NO virus – only RNA to cause the body to produce the proteins which are the “spikes” on SARS-CoV-2.
This development wasn’t “rushed”. They’ve been working on mRNA vaccines since the 1970s. The Astrazenica vaccine is a more “traditional” vaccine,and it’s the one with a possibility of causing blood clots, especially in young women.
How are you “low risk”? Do you live in a cave and haven’t seen another live human being in over a year? Or, are you “young and healthy”? Well, in my town of about 125 people, 2 “young and healthy” people in their 20s died of COVID-19 last month, leaving 3 children orphaned, and the woman was about 6 months pregnant (viable foetus). The third was in his 80s in bad health. He would have certainly died anyway in a few years. The point is that without COVID, he wouldn’t have died THAT day. Now, had a bad guy shot him, that person would have been charged with murder. Had he used the “would have died anyway soon” as a defense, he’d have been laughed out of court. How about whoever recklessly infected the couple in their 20s?
My former MIL, 91, died of COVID-19 a couple of months ago. Neither would she have died THAT DAY without COVID. She wouldn’t have lived more than a few more years – her mother and grandmother lived to be over 100.
If you recklessly kill someone with a terminal illness, do you know what they call it? Reckless homicide. That comes with prison terms.
The more people who refuse the vaccine, the longer we’re going to be in this situation of evaluating the chances of getting a serious, long-term, or deadly disease vs getting anything we need or want outside our homes or letting someone in our homes. We have to get to the point where the RO number, the average number a new cases passes it to, to be <1 for it to go away. We've never had that happen naturally – otherwise, everything from measles to polio to small pox wouldn't have plagued humanity for thousands of years – until we vaccinated against them.
Yes, I've had my first shot of Moderna about 3 weeks ago, and have an appointment, which I'll walk over broken glass to keep, next week. Yeah, just like parents in the 1950s walked miles and stood in lines for hours to get their kids either of the polio vaccines.
This is a lot different than a pap test.
Sorry. I’ll consider the Johnson and Johnson one after a bit of time passes to work out some bugs, but I’m not about to become corporate America’s guinea pig (Astra Zeneca is the one that had blood clots, and its been beefed up in the corporate media even as the equally troubling mRNA deaths have been downplayed, and it’s clear thats a shock doctrine technique to herd people into the final clinical trials of an experimental method). There is no chance in hell that I or anyone in my immediate family will ever accept mRNA experimental “vaccines”. Especially when the companies lobbied for total liability immunity to any negative outcomes. I live in the US, where a cold could damn near bankrupt you, I can’t afford a lifetime of potential autoimmune disorders or other complications by being part of a final clinical trial with zero liability for any damage they cause. We all know how trustworthy greedy corporations can be when they know there will be no consequences for their actions,after all. They have a lot of gall demanding liability immunity in a broken health system.like this, as if chronic health complications aren’t bad enough without going bankrupt and homeless from them.
And no, there is nothing you can say to change my.mind on this. I wear my mask everywhere, I wash my hands, I distance, in the rare cases I actually leave the house, so I’ll wait for the ones where I’m not a free test subject to make someone else a huge profit.
Just be happy I’m considering any vaccine at all in this broken American healthcare system.
Actually, it IS the J&J vaccine that’s had the blood clot problems – 6 people have gotten blood clots, 1 of those women has died, out of 7 million shots. That makes the odds thus far at a little under 1 in a million!
It’s being looked at. COVID-19 has blood clots as one of its major effects. Thus far, COVID-19 has killed over 560,000 people, while it’s infected over 31 million. The vaccine has caused blood clots in 6, and killed one. One idea, which is being researched, is that all of the people affected were women ages 18-48 – and it’s known that blood clots are a side effect of birth control pills – effecting 1 woman in a couple of thousand, and as protection from unwanted pregnancy improves their lives, they risk it. Perhaps those with the covid-jab correlated blood clots are all taking birth control pills, or a particular type, and they can add a disrecommendation for the J&J and Astrozenaca when it’s approved for women on BC pills to take those shots. Pregnancy is also a risk for this, at a higher rate, and women 18-48 are also in the pregnancy range. Was pregnancy invoved with any or all of these cases.
Another important thing is that actually getting COVID-19, is a much higher risk for getting blood clots than any vaccine! There’s a 1 in 5 risk of getting a serious blood clot from a symptomatic COVID infection.
You can get more of an overview of this by watching the 27 minute video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFIxMGWrfTQ
The whole anti-vax movement is put out by under a dozen people. Vaccines have prevented many deaths during the 19th-21st century – so much so that we’ve got overpopulation issues, and a world population rapidly approaching 8 billion. We first reached 1 billion at the beginning of the 19th century. The reason this catches on is that people are very bad at risk assessment based on statistics.
Making it worse are things like where some risks are presented in terms of percentages, where others are presented in number per 100,000. That’s a difference of 1000 times, but people see them as equivalent. Another thing that makes it worse is a combination of distrust of science or education, or even reading actual research papers, and an emphasis on what “the man on the street” thinks – either a stranger posting on facebook, with unknown motivation, or a “man on the street” This makes for a lot of misinformation! The motivation of those creating the misinformation is often suspect.
People here can read research papers, and evaluate what is said. As we can read studies about how rare CC is and how ineffective, and subject to overtreatment paps are, why don’t we read about COVID or the vaccines? There is plenty of information available in the medical journals, on government websites from numerous countries.
Vaccines work better on populations than they do for any individual. There are risks with all of them, while having sufficient people vaccinated drives the disease out of the population. If enough people get their COVID vaccination, the sooner we can get back to normal. The lower the probability that this RNA virus – which notoriously mutate quickly, will mutate in such a way as to escape vaccine protection, will become more deadly, or will become easier to transmit. We’ve got variants that are easier to transmit now.
Vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued in the US, unless adulteration or recklessness in the manufacturing process is proven. Instead, claims are evaluated and paid by the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, If one is injured by a vaccine, THEY pay for the results. If you cannot afford to get the possible side effects of a vaccine, you sure couldn’t afford to get sick in the US! With COVID particularly, immunity only lasts about 4 months after one has been infected – and some people have gotten COVID again. At least some people can get it over and over. The vaccines give a longer-term immunity.
COVID vaccines are not experimental, unless you are a participant in a study. If you don’t know you are a participant, it is not a legitimate study, and that has the effect that the data cannot be used in the US, UK, or the EU for ethical reasons. Of course they continue to monitor after the drug has been brought to market – everything is being monitored after-market – even those things approved by the 1911 safety act.
Beth, thank you for all the interesting information on Covid vaccines. I have my first shot scheduled for tomorrow and find what you’ve written reassuring. This has been a contentious issue here and I can certainly respect the opinions of those who are distrustful of the medical industry and big pharma – after all, look what they’ve pulled with women’s so-called healthcare and all the nonsense they peddle to us with paps, etc.. But I’m willing to take a leap of faith with this one. Even though there are still unknowns since the vaccines are so new, what is known and is a fact is that Covid can be, and often is, devastating and deadly to those who are unfortunate enough to catch it. The way I see it, drastic times call for drastic measures, and this is one of those times.
Judy,
Populations which have been used and abused by the medical and pharma industries, which includes people of color, especially in the US The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment being the most notorious, but there have been many more. Enslaved black women were used to come up with the whole field of gynecology. Look up J. Marion Sims for details. There have been all sorts of things from radiation experiments to surgical experiments to nutrition experiments which focused on women, people of color, or especially women of color. It makes for a lot of distrust.
In my, and many here, experience it’s been a variant on the joke about the used car salesmen: You can tell when a doctor (used car salesman) is lying because their lips are moving.
Fortunately, in these days of available information, including high-quality information, we can find the actual studies, data, conclusions, discussions and read them for ourselves, not having to rely on a physician who subscribes to very-expensive printed journals. Different studies and research done by various institutions, each with their own potential conflicts of interests, and done in various countries are now available to us. What I do, whether researching SARS-Cov-2 or cervical cancer or hysterectomy rates or infection vectors and rates, is look at the medical journals and medical sites run by various governments. Those reading here are fortunate in that the language of science is English, and people reading this blog can certainly read English. My frequent “haunts” are The New England Journal of Medicine, the British Medical Journal, and the Lancet. Additionally, my (US) State Library Commission has subscribed to an online scientific (and other) datatabase that makes it simple and free to look up anything in a journal with a State ID or License, or Library Card issued in the State. You can find everything from the latest studies on COVID vaccines to the issue of vaccine hesitancy to rates of CC or any other disease, treatments for those diseases, and on and on to any level you want to read. This shocked my husband’s orthopedic surgeon when we’d read of a new treatment for my husband’s condition – him saying that it had just been published THAT MONTH, and he’d only read about it a few days prior! It got him to look into it more though. 🙂 More evidence that an actually informed patient is likely to get far better treatment! And, how shocked doctors are that patients can access and read and evaluate high-quality information.
The New England Journal of Medicine has made ALL of their COVID articles, including comments and opinions on them FREE for anyone. For instance, https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2106315?query=RP If you sign up with your email for their mailing list, you can read up to 3 articles which they usually charge for, each month free as well.
Some articles in the British Medical Journal are also free, with no sign up. For instance, https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1005 which says that the risk of blood clots from COVID-19 is 10 times higher than the risk for blood clots from the vaccine. thelancet.com (The Lancet) is another source of high-quality medical information. Their COVID-19 area https://www.thelancet.com/coronavirus has high-quality information too. Many reputable universities have good information as well, on COVID, cervical cancer, the benefits and harms of (frequent) pelvic exams on asymptomatic women, etc. With any university or article though, look for who paid for the study, what associations the contributors have, and whether they have an interest in a particular outcome. It doesn’t mean that it’s wrong, but it means to look elsewhere for confirmation. Of course, look at the university – is it a reputable university that you’ve heard of, or is it a new fly-by-night university that is an extension of a corporation or other group that has their own set of reasons for existing?
Actually, a recent Oxford study showed that the blood clot issue is about the same for the two mRNA and the two viral vector vaccines. Last I recall, Oxford was considered a pretty reliable university.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/pfizer-moderna-vaccines-blood-clots/
“During the meeting, committee members hailed the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines as great alternatives to the J&J vaccine because there were “no safety signals” — suggesting, unlike the J&J and AstraZeneca adenovirus-based vaccines, mRNA vaccines are not associated with blood clots.
On Tuesday, Peter Marks, director of the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), said on a call with reporters there had been no reported cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) with thrombocytopenia (low blood platelets that can cause dangerous internal bleeding) following Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.
But Mark’s statement contradicts numerous news reports, recent studies and even a scientist’s warning directed specifically to Marks late last year — it also contradicts data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).
Utilizing a search criteria that included reports of blood clots associated with blood coagulation disorders, VAERS yielded a total of 795 reports for all three vaccines from Dec. 14, 2020 through April 1, 2021.
Of the 795 cases reported, there were 400 reports attributed to Pfizer, 337 reports with Moderna and 56 reports with J&J — far more than the eight cases under investigation, including the two additional cases added Wednesday.
A study released today by Oxford University found the number of people who developed CVST blood clots after COVID vaccines was about the same for Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca, MarketWatch reported. (J&J is not approved for use in the EU, where the study originated).
According to the study, 4 in 1 million people experienced CVST during the two weeks following vaccination with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, versus 5 in 1 million people for the AstraZeneca vaccine.”
They keep wondering why the very clear data on blood clots for mRNA is being downplayed and ignored. Why they don’t follow the money is beyond me. Plenty of organizational heads these days have investment interests or a corporate payout, and a lot of them are connected to the new mRNA tech. Which explains why “Marks” up there is blatantly, demonstrably lying about the data and pretending mRNA is 100% safe while the rest is rank poison.
My problem is that the issues with the mRNA are being ignored or downplayed in the media while the viral.vector issues are being overhyped. And the fact that the free pass in the media vaccine is the newest and most profitable tech that is only now being really used on humans (yes, it is very experimental, and no amount of word salad will change that fact, we don’t really have good long term info and there are definite risks in using the body itself as a spike protein factory as many doctors have voiced concern about and were subsequently screamed down as nuts by the media) fits for ight in with what we’ve seen before re:big pharma corruption.
And if vaccine makers have always been un-sueable,then why did they lobby recently for total liability immunity? Why lobby for something you already had?
The fact that the entire media and government and even hyped-up individuals seem to be trying to herd and even force me in the direction of mRNA and limit any alternatives is extremely suspicious to me.
I recently heard about the Novavax protein subunit vaccine and after reading about it, I feel infinitely more secure in this one. I wasn’t thrilled about viral vector, but I was far more confident in it than in mRNA. It seems this one doesn’t use the human body as a spike protein factory and is a far more traditional option that has a longer history with better safety data on human use, and very few adverse or serious reactions. This is one I think I can accept. It should be getting approved for use in the US soon, and is already in manufacture. Given its history of use, the fact that it was in development earlier than any.of the others, and its more traditional method, I might even give it a shorter time to work.out the bugs than I would viral vector.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-how-it-works-wellness-explainer/index.html
I only worry how this even better option might get sabotaged or have its issues magnified to keep the lab rats herded toward the mRNA, only the mRNA, always mRNA, the traditional.vaccines you were told to trust are now rank.poison and only mRNA can save you, mRNA is the Way Truth and Light, wanting other more traditional options makes you a heretical anti-vaxxer! I never thought I’d see the day when trusting a more traditional vaccine with better safety history and keeping safety protocol up until I can get it would see me accused of being an uninformed dangerous anti-vaxxing lunatic!
I’ve written that the flu vaccine that worked best, from my experiences and observations, was the nasal live-disabled vaccine. You snort it up each nostril. No mercury or preservatives. No pain. No reaction. No getting sick.
My arm was sore after the first Pfizer shot. My husband’s arm was sore. He also felt like shit which peaked at 5 days. He had a very tight chest most of those days. No temp. That was abnormal for him even with asthma. We’ll see what injection #2 does… I’m told no preservative which is good.
I’m good with the technology regarding the vaccine.
What I don’t like are mans’ intentions. Are we really, truthfully, told what RNA is in that vaccine? Anything else?
We’ve been hosed by government and the media for far too long to accept this at face value.
Hi Allison good to see you back!! Like you I don’t trust the government or this vaccine, after all medics haven’t always told the truth! I work in a school and the pressure there to test 2 ce weekly and be vaccinated is intense
I’m 57 and really didn’t want the vaccine, I gave in over family pressure and got the Astra zenica one, 1 st dose. Since then more has come out about it and it’s not being offered for under 30/! I will not be having my second dose and have already told my family that and they didn’t pressure me. I think I read there were 79 cases of clots and 19 deaths which is nearly one quarter! No no and no? Ladies and Allison over to you, what do you think??
I know advice is if you had 1st dose ok then get 2nd but if under 30/ aren’t getting it, why can my age group? Who are surely more at risk of clots etc? I caved in 1st dose over, what will you do if you get long covid and that I’m very likely to get covid living and working in a high transmission deprived area, but equally I don’t want to end up disabled over a clot from the vaccine and I’m not willing to take any more risks…
Btw, yes I know people who have had COVID, land including family, no,this doesn’t change my mind. How we went from “people are monsters if they don’t wear a mask,wash hands,socially distance” to “people are monsters if they don’t submit to a shady situation where it is extremely reasonable to suspect it is a liability-free clinical trial and you can’t afford to be a guinea pig without compensation in a country where there is no universal healthcare and even having insurance can bankrupt you, even if you wear masks/wash hands/socially distance” I don’t know. Now I’m hearing the whole “masks are totally useless” rhetoric from mRNA fans, not just the usual whackos,almost as if its a propaganda effort, even though they insist vaxxed people still wear masks and distance but remember it’s still entirely useless folks and offers no actual.protection so get vaxxed but keep on your useless mask anyway! Yes,science once said masks and distancing work, now they suddenly magically dont work at all. And sadly, switching up horses like that and arguing inconsistently in real time (masks are useless get vaxxed,but keep wearing masks anyway,what do you mean I’m.contradicting myself?) does nothing to engender trust,and shaming and browbeating does even less. It’s literally the same tactics as the pro-pap crowd uses. Just push for more non-experimental non-mRNA options and let people choose the one they have most faith in based on their own damn research. Surely any vaccine is better than nothing. And if someone is being responsible when they do leave the house, and/or us waiting to see if the bugs get worked out before deciding, give them their space and just be happy they’re even considering it.
People who hype the mRNA ones as the only possible option really make me suspect they’re on the payroll. There’s nothing wrong with offering options to people who find your personal preference quite reasonably unacceptable or extremely suspect. I know one person whose family got COVID and though they chose to get the mRNA vax themselves, they don’t blame anyone who doesn’t want it or wants adifferent one or who wants to hold off for awhile so long as they keep being responsible with masks and social distancing. His only beef is with the people who keep going to concerts and bars and refusing to.mask up or distance.
Darn it,this was supposed to be an addendum.to my reply above.
I talked to my brother on the phone the other day and he said “ I think thats stupid that your not getting the covid vaccine. I said no I’m not . He thinks covid is not going to go down until the most of the population is vaccinated. He wants to blame the unvaccinated for being trouble makers. He did confess like many others I know that he got sick from it. I haven’t had a vaccine since I was under age. And don’t plan to ether. I don’t trust it and the nurse that gave it to my gma admitted that it lowers your immune system for awhile. So basically you might as well plan to be sick or injured from this vaccine and subject to bullying if you don’t. You never know what long term health problems this could cause that they can’t be help responsible for. The funny thing is my brother and sister-in-law both were vaccinated but called yesterday to tell us they can’t come to my gma birthday party because they are scared of Covid.
Where do you live?
We’re told as well that a booster is or will be needed toward end of year.
Makes us more suspicious.
I live in the South Eastern region of the United States.
Kleigh. You realize that, like everything else medical, it’s a risk/benefit trade-off. Anyone taking any of the COVID vaccines on the market anywhere in the world has a fairly-high chance of having a mild reaction from the vaccine – pain, aches throughout the body, low-grade fever. Almost none of these have required hospitalization. Meanwhile, just in the US, 570K people have lost their lives to COVID – which is well above the number who were killed in WW2. That took 4 years, this has been just over a year.
Vaccinations are well-documented to be of more benefit to populations than they are to individuals. Even at the 95% efficacy rate, with an extremely low instance of serious reactions requiring medical attention, any particular person can have the problem. 1 in a million may die from the J&J vaccine, vs the 1 in 600 (so far) who have died of COVID in the US.
The goal of the vaccine is for the population. You want each newly-infected person to infect fewer than 1 other person. If that happens the epidemic goes away. If each newly-infected person infects more than 1 other person, on average, it’s expanding and spreading.
The percentage who need to be vaccinated differs with the efficacy of the vaccine, the “natural” spread-rate of the disease (e.g., measles can spread to about 15 more people on average. SARS-CoV-2 spreads to about 3), and several other inputs. Epidemiologists – scientists who study this and do the math – have determined that about 70% of the population needs to be vaccinated with vaccines which are 90-95% effective to get this number lower than 1. Given that some people cannot be vaccinated, such as children and people with certain diseases and conditions, and allergies to the components, we need to have as many as possible get the vaccine. To do otherwise is to ensure that the current rules of masking and social distancing, limitations on gatherings, limitations on travel, limits on restaurants and public transportation, are going to continue… for as long as people choose to not get vaccinated.
Moreover, the more people who have COVID the more opportunities there are for more variants. Some of the variants so far have made it easier to spread – hence the new recommendation to use 2-ply masks – or 2 masks. Some of them will make it more severe.
Vaccines are not perfect for any individual. 1 in 20 will get COVID anyway. The good news is that very few of those fully-vaccinated with any of the vaccines marketed worldwide have serious cases requiring hospitalization. It’s still prudent for a vaccinated person to follow the guidelines to avoid contracting COVID for as long as this epidemic lasts.
Death or “getting over it” are not the only possibilities. Some have “long-COVID”. Some have a lifetime of disabilities. It’s more of a blood-clotting disease than it is respiratory. Some have damage to organs with ACE proteins, making the next round of the disease even more damaging to them.
Immunity conferred from a natural infection lasts 4-6 months after someone has COVID. So, you can get this over and over. It’s currently being studied if COVID boosters will be recommended, as there are new variants, simply because RNA viruses are more prone to errors in their reproductive process. Similar to AIDS in that way, one can determine where they got it and where they spread it. This will be done when you’ve got conditions that cost hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars, per case, to treat or live with. Governments and insurance companies will find someone who is responsible for the damage. If their actions were reckless and they chose to put others at risk, they will likely be sued, their wages garnished. They will have to be shown to be acting with disregard to human life to get them imprisoned for (attempted) murder/manslaughter, but that’s a possibility for some – considering the laws involving the knowing spread of AIDS.
That all being said, I’ve had both shots of Moderna. I was pretty sick, with a mild fever and digestive effects for almost 3 days. I had no need to seek medical attention. It sure as heck beats spending weeks or months on a ventilator, with all sorts of instruments inserted in every orifice of my body, and leaving that hospital completely broke and homeless without even a change of clothing.
So, I have to assume all of the vaccine-hesitant or even those adamantly “I will NEVER receive the vaccination!” enjoy this “new normal” we’re living with with COVID. You’re all but ensuring that this will continue for the rest of human civilization.
Note that vaccines, at the end given with a great deal of thought and research about who or where, ended smallpox – a scourge of humankind. The notion that we’ll create another one even with a vaccine that can prevent it is ludicrous.
I agree with you to a point. And we did go through and get our 2nd Pfizer shot.
I have problems with the origin of this virus as I do the vaccine.
I do not feel the origin was natural. This came out of nowhere with a warped ability to cause the body to kill itself via the immune response.
Why would they go for the RNA vaccine if the effects wear off in 6 months? What’s the point? I cannot help but wonder what’s next.
Meanwhile, there’s viral vaccines that provide life lasting protection. Why not simply create a vaccine like that? Do we really need to outsmart ourselves by creating a custom vaccine? Again, what’s the point?
Then, let’s say there’s obedient compliance. And governments say we need more shots. Pretty soon this becomes another monster imposed upon us like pap.
Nothing like a crisis to make the citizens accept change.
It’s the effects of natural immunity, from actually getting a case of COVID-19, which wear off in 4-6 months. Immunity from the vaccine lasts at least a year – based on the Titers from the first people who took the vaccine in clinical trials. They are taking some those people – who voluntarily signed up to be part of a research project, and giving them a booster. They want to see if there are any adverse effects from having an additional shot. The purpose is to vaccinate against variants which “escape” the vaccines out there now. RNA viruses are notorious for mutating – most of the mutations don’t go anywhere, but a few of them make it more transmissible (e.g., the UK variant which is now the dominant strain in the US), or more serious or more deadly.
If this was deliberately engineered, and is a bio-weapon, even more we need to be fully motivated to fight it and prevent its spread. To do otherwise would be the equivalent of if someone during a WW2 blackout raid would have shone spotlights rather than turn out the lights and use blackout shades/drapes. Had someone done that in WW2, their neighbors would have rightly been irate – and they would be arrested, at least partly for their own safety. Why would anyone try to make a bio-attack on their country/community worse by cooperating with the disease and its spread?
I’m not convinced that it was genetically engineered, although I’ve seen some claims and poor-quality research that it is. There is far better evidence the other way – that this was a natural thing. Note that serious global pandemics happen about once per century.
The reason that there are several mRNA vaccines, several genetically-engineered DNA vaccines based on adenovirus,and one pretty-conventional vaccine is that the virus DOES mutate so quickly. It’s the same reason that we’ve never had a vaccine from the common cold, which ~20% of are coronaviruses of various sorts. It’s the same reason we haven’t developed an effective HIV vaccine in 40 years of trying.
There have been other coronavirus outbreaks which are far more serious and deadly than SARS-CoV-2. Nipah virus periodically breaks out. It’s transmitted in about the same ways as COVID, the flu, or common cold, except it’s 30-40% fatal. We’ve been lucky so far in that it’s broken out in areas of SE Asia with authoritarian governments who kept people where they were, in the affected region of the country, until the outbreak went away…. then repopulated those areas.
Hi ladies,
I haven’t posted for a while , although I look in most days we have been real busy at work and not had much free time lately, it makes me feel guilty as you bunch have helped me so much, thank you, thank you, thank you. I look around other sites for any thing of use here and even venture onto medical sites yuk. The one I’m on at the minute is one called pubmed but the the reasearchers among you here will have come across this no doubt. Some of the people on there are unbelievable most of them are doctors and some of them are quite insane , the section I’m on at the minute they are whining that graduates today are finishing training without getting enough training in regards to pelvic exams because of restricted measures put into place to reign in their free for all from the past , it really is quite sickening to read ,they honestly can’t see why they shouldn’t be allowed to do whatever they want to women. I wanted to comment but it wouldn’t let me? I wanted to put a comparison on where a girl gets drunk at a party and passes out and she gets taken advantage of, and them aneasthetizing someone and then doing the same the only difference being if the guy at the party is caught he goes to prison they are encouraged and paid for it, I know this practice has supposed to have been stopped, but some of the comments are recent so I wonder if they still sneak a few in , from some of the comments it appears to still be in operation ( not just the consensual ones ) all they have to say is it was an essential part of the surgery and required and away they go again , they really are disturbed! I know I’ve thanked you before, but thank you again ,now I’ve been informed by you and gone on to look deeper into this I am constantly on my guard .
Love to all Helper xx.
Hi ladies,
Just found this on a site called
Refinery 29 com . It’s an article by a journalist called Sarah midkiff about a report from the Cleveland clinic in the USA by dr Laura dean a specialist in breast cancer she has released a report on the side effects of the covid vaccines Moderna and Pfizer bioNtech both of which use technology called mRNA . The study reveals that the Moderna vaccine can cause swelling of the lymph nodes nearest the breast of the injected arm in 11% of people rising to 16% on the second injection the Pfizer vaccine shows the same effect on 0.3% of its vaccinations both vaccines will make the area tender to the touch for up to 10 days, but if you undergo a mammogram the enlarged lymph nodes will show up as an abnormal scan for up to a month after vaccination, so if you do self checks as myself and Jules do and find something doesn’t feel right it may be due to the injection so don’t panic.
love helper xx.
Hi ladies ,
I’ve been back onto that site pubmed and found a reply to a doctors post about training new doctors,and how it was beneficial to woman for them to comply with requests for student doctors to take part in their treatment, as this would lead to better treatment for women in the future.The guy who replied said he was in full agreement that future doctors should be taught to a high standard and understood that this must be difficult with restrictions and refusals in place and trained teaching models so expensive, so if these exams were so important to their progress of these new physicians maybe he could volunteer his wife and daughters to help out,only just stopped laughing what a brilliant reply!( and from a guy ) hope this tickled you as much as it did me
Love Helper xx.
Bad as that sounds, a father doctor volunteering his wife/daughter…my husband knows a doctor who did just that. He further delivered his grandchild. Is that yucky or what?! What does he think? …”oh yeah, this reminds me of when I gave you a suppository as a child when you were vomiting…” Gag.
Even with that, the grimmer point is that he had no clue what pain was and he did epesiotomies a lot.
Cat and mouse,
Wow just freaking wow, that is so wrong on so many levels. What the hell is he thinking, his poor wife must have no self esteem whatsoever, that’s one woman that needs to look at grounds for divorce, and as for his daughter, if she still lives in the family home she needs to get outta there faster than a rat up a drainpipe, that’s one disturbed sob. To actually whore them out to his medical cronies shows he has no respect for them at all, and mores the point what respect would he show
to his patients if he’s prepared to do this to his supposed loved ones,he’s a very disturbed individual
love helper xx.
Testing? A comment of mine didn’t post. Am I now banned from FWEO for having reasonable doubts about the early covid vaccines and wanting to hold out for one I actually feel some measure of confidence in? Have the people who have been wrongly accused of being anti-vax for not giving gynecology unquestioning submission and for doing their own research started wrongly accusing those who do their own research and choose a different vaccine of being anti-vax?
Hi Demonhype,
I have also posted a couple of comments that have not come up, so it’s more likely to be a glitch in the system. It seems this vaccine has gotten everybody on edge and can turn families and friends against each other, it would be a travesty if this happened to the women on this site having been so supportive of each other for so long this is an individual choice the same as female exams, to get the vaccine is a choice of the pro’s and cons and some will feel it’s necessary, and others will be uncertain, all of us have our own take on this vaccine, let’s leave this debate behind for now ,after all we are like the musketeers ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL.
Love helper xx.
We are sort of friends with my pharmacist. They are giving out the Pfizer vaccine.
I’d shared my husband’s reaction here. We were told his reaction must be reported.
Turns out there’s a lot of info we weren’t told. Like the possibilities of reactions like what it did to my husband.
The pharmacist’s mother also had a vigorous immune response. With her depression also was a side effect.
Truthfully, we dread the next one.
We were told to get 4 days of food prepared in advance. Or to do delivery.
And we’re supposed to go through this again come Autumn?
Yeah, I’ll do it. When we have fair elections again. Seriously though? If the flu vaccine did this, or any of the others in mass population numbers there’d be trouble.
Actually, this did already happen. The only problem were the victims couldn’t speak before nor after so we couldn’t hear in their own words how they felt before–and after. Our kids.
Hi Helper!
I was just kind of amazed since I never said don’t do it,just that the media reporting is suspiciously biased in favor of a single method, and that I’m.glad there are alternatives to mRNA now and upcoming so people can have some options, whether based on what method they are confident in or personal physical limitations to one or another method. I was behind stoked to hear about the Novavax one, because tbh I’m very uncomfortable with the possible long term safety of using my body to produce cells for my immune system to attack, and this method seems far safer. But there are a surprising lot of people who get incensed that anyone would have the audacity to think they get to choose which vaccine is injected into their personal body!
Its been amazing to hear so many people in recent months mislabelling me as an anti-vaxxer entirely because of having well-founded concerns about a single vaccine method while being perfectly willing to consider another! Lol! It really has stirred up a lot of feeling, that’s for sure!
Fact is, if someone wants mRNA, go for it. But just as I’d hope someone might get a pap after getting all the info, I’d hope no one favors mRNA based on the media slant that its 100% safe with no problems while the rest is rank poison. And I’d hope my decision to stay masked and distanced up until a vaccine I feel confident and safe about is approved,which shouldn’t be long. Its not like I’m going out unnecessarily,bare faced and breathing on everyone else in the meantime.
Yes, as time goes on there are more choices and options available on the vaccines. The Astrazennica/Oxford vaccine is not an mRNA vaccine, more “conventional”. The Sputnik vaccine is a more conventional vaccine, note the discussion in The Lancet that there seems to be a big difference between the Sputnik in Russia and the Sputnik export vaccine. Sinovac (Chinese) I also believe is not an mRNA vaccine.
mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans since the 1970s. They seem quite safe. The only reason they were not used previously is that before they were out, the epidemic they were to solve went away, with or without another vaccine.
Nothing medical is without risk. Nothing at all in life is 100% safe.
I was hesitant on these new vaccines, and the “new” mRNA technology in the beginning, and that was made worse with the politicization of the whole thing. I educated myself, read numerous studies done with numerous funding sources by different types of organizations in different countries, and I wanted any of these vaccines. Moderna, offered through my county health department, was the first one made available to me, so that’s what I took.
Has anyone seen google search today? the picture of a woman examining a sample and what looks to be a cervix being swabbed. They are celebrating this invention. I’m sick of this mess. I wish the Me Too movement would cover this. Internal screening that’s forced on woman. Lack of consent.
Hi KLEIGH! Had a look at it, its actually an egg being fertilised, like in IVF. its not a cervix, thank god….
Thank God my bad. I remember google did celebrate the doctor that invented the pap last year. I felt it was so disrespectful to woman. A picture of a woman with her legs open and a doctor with a swab right on google search.
I’d like to see that.
Has anyone seen the conversation on twitter after Steph McGovern had a smear test live on air on her lunchtime show? It’s so awful, the usual ‘it’s so easy, just get on and do it and don’t be a wuss’, ‘if you can get a wax, you can do this’ and even that women who don’t go should be slapped. There are actually quite a few people saying how they would have liked barriers such as trauma to be mentioned but of course they are being shouted down. The guests for that segment for the show were the father who has founded the ‘smear campaign’ and his little boy. It’s tragic that they lost their wife and mother but he is spearheading a campaign to lower the age limit (with all the associated risks that brings) and to test for cell changes in the first instance instead of HPV which would have a direct impact on self sampling. Of course, he’s also selling the screening without any mention of risks and benefits and has engaged with the awful actress who advises young women to pay to have a test before they reach 25 and pay to have one annually and spreads misinformation about cell changes ‘happening overnight’ and self sampling being dangerous.
Makes me so angry to see a man dictating what should happen to women’s bodies and how women are just lapping it up in typical hysterical fashion. Also depressing to see a female GP ‘teaming up’ with him and thereby endorsing the message even against all medical evidence to the contrary. There’s also a male psychotherapist (empathy, anyone?) in the twitter comments reprimanding a lady who has experienced sexual violence talking about the importance of mentioning trauma in the discussion. According to him, the most important thing was to advertise the importance of the smear and any discussion around trauma should be ‘saved for another day’. I honestly despair.
In a way I feel bad commenting about this because I’m so aware the campaign was born out of a very tragic and traumatic loss and that this man is grieving. However, I’m just so concerned that it is feeding into the myths and misinformation around screening and has the potential to cause harm to women. I don’t have anything against a campaign to support women who want to take up screening and educate women on cervical cancer in a factual, balanced way, but will always struggle with anything that is focused around uptake alone and not equipping women to make informed decisions about their health.
I don’t have an awful lot of sympathy for him, if I’m honest. He claims to be a mental health instructor (whatever that means) but he seems to have a few issues of his own. A friend of mine on Twitter tried to engage with him but he comes across as a bit of a narcissist. He IS perpetuating long held myths and misinformation, and his struggles with losing his ex-partner (not his wife, got that wrong!) should not give him a free pass to do so.
As you say, women deserve balanced information. We’ve been subjected to a great deal of emotional manipulation over the years, we’ve been fed lies, bullied, blackmailed and shamed, they’ve used every dirty trick in the book to coerce women into unwanted testing purely to reach government targets. So forgive me if I’m harsh towards him and his pointless crusade, but obsessives like him are part of the problem, not to mention the toxic behaviour these campaigns encourage.
It would appear to me that this man who has lost his partner, is engaging in a sort of magical thinking. He seems to think that “if only she’d had her smear test” she would still be alive. Sorry. This smear test is pretty ineffective at picking up actual positive results, worse at determining which of them are actually dangerous, which will resolve on their own, and which will have a progression rate so slow that there’s no chance of it becoming a problem in the woman’s lifetime. Moreover, the smear tests discourages actual diagnostic testing in women who have symptoms of CC – or other gyn cancers which the PAP has no effect on, or even as a theoretical way to test. It gives women, their families, and some of their doctors, a false sense of security.
He’s in pain. He’s frustrated. He wants to blame something and also add value to her after the fact.
Too bad he’s not aware of what he’s talking about.
If we could only count on the news coverage to be fair and balanced.
Then they could say that pap saves lives and it’s recommended that every woman has one yearly.
Then in the next breath they could tell us how useless, inaccurate, and what a total waste of time paps are. They could also discuss the guessing game called interpreting pap.
End the broadcast by showing a hamster running on its wheel.
Yeah, I’ve seen the video – what a load of tripe! You don’t get to see a damned thing, not even the equipment used – the doctor (associated with one of the pink charities, what a surprise) is either hiding away behind the modesty sheet, or she’s off camera completely. The diagrams in the sales brochure they send with the invitations are more informative.
And as for the founder of the campaign, he’s woefully ill-informed and seems to think he’s in the right because lots of other equally ignorant women are supporting him. His wife had regular tests and was diagnosed too late because doctors brushed her off when she reported with symptoms. So how does he tackle this recurrent problem of doctors dismissing symptoms? More screening! Testing from a younger age. Co-testing. At a time when the NHS is struggling to survive, can’t provide quality care for those most in need and shouldn’t be spending money chasing the worried well, he wants extra testing.
He proclaims he wants women’s voices to be heard – but only the ones who agree with him.
I know his mind’s been on other things lately, but there’s been a tsunami of smear test awareness these past few years, yet he still thinks we need more? His pitiful campaign is just a repeat of the same old publicity stunts, spewing out the same tired old propaganda… and he thinks hes doing something revolutionary.
And why has he started a funding page, begging for cash to ‘raise awareness and support cancer sufferers’ when there’s a big pink charity raking in huge sums of money that’s meant to be doing all that?
Ah yes, discussion around trauma should be ‘saved for another day’… meaning ‘we’ve convinced the fanatics that all non-attenders are moronic snowflakes – can’t admit that was a lie now, can we? So let’s not have an honest discussion about it. Ever.’
You raise really important points Kate about the harm being caused and I must admit that I’m also very uncomfortable with a child in the midst of his grief being put on television and social media in this way. I think the fact that a child is involved is what’s making me reluctant to speak out and engage, for fear of being seen as the ‘negative nelly’ or being accused of bullying a vulnerable child. Campaigns and TV segments like this are so ironic though. They claim to be all about engaging women who don’t attend and then whenever they get feedback from said women, they shout them down, ignore them and often paint them as ‘dangerous’ or bullies.
Kat – sadly my efforts could not bring this woman to any form of logic. I think we ended the discussion on “they’re dangerous and will cost women their lives and need to be administered by a medical professional, end of”.
Thing is, Beth, he’s well aware that she had regular tests and was failed by her doctors. But he’s brushing over that fact and obsessing over the uptake rates.
Thing is, Beth, he’s well aware that she had regular tests and was failed by her doctors. But he completely brushes over that and is obsessing over uptake.
Gem, you speak good sense! Over on the PHE blog, new post, seems they’re getting ready to roll with pilot self testing! They have chosen 3 swabs or brushes and started training personnel. Wonder what the die hard screeners will make of that one??
Thanks for that! I’ve just read it. That’s such good news. If rolled out, it will help break down barriers for those who want to have it and save many women from a traumatic and invasive test. The issues of informed consent and risks vs benefits will remain of course, but it’s a step in the right direction. I imagine there will be massive opposition to it though!
I have to wonder what the three self tests they have approved?
Do you believe the program will be set up to fail? Those tests selected, do they have better error rates than the 50% effective pap? It will be a long time that I will give them the trust they take for granted.
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2021/04/28/cervical-screening-self-sampling-study/
Here’s the link to the new study for self-testing in the UK. It’s tip-toeing in the right direction, study after study, pilot after pilot, but will we ever get the full roll out? It includes details and photos of the 3 tests they’ve chosen.
Thanks for sharing the info re these self-test kits. I enjoyed reviewing them. Educational and then some.
Each site was amazing vague and happy re these products. Each was overflowing with confidence about how patient friendly each product was; and how each wouldn’t be painful.
However only one commended about its product NOT causing micro abrasions. This is very important. In the long run I feel this single component will determine how women feel about it overall and how successful the program becomes. As it is, only one product here will prevent or reduce colposcopy in women infected with HPV. I cannot conceive how authorities didn’t see this. If I see it, they should have known and foreseen criticism as I offer.
Each product works essentially the same way. You must have physical contact between the sample collection device and cervix. Each has “friendly” nylon bristles which do the dirty work. When you view the websites, you’ll notice the photos are clear but not THAT clear in revealing what these bristles are.
I noted before that similar collection devices used in pap and colposcopy, also noted as “patient friendly” and “friendly” “painless” bristles were a bait and switch. The bristles are not soft. They are stiff and are meant to scrape. Some of these also had brass or stainless steel wire bristles hidden under the nylon.
So much to patient friendly and harmless.
Each of these will cause micro trauma and abrasions. The last product by Aptima appeared, I stress, to have cotton instead of nylon but don’t quote me on that. I was not able to completely rule out what it is.
The point, as I’ve said comparing Trovagene to these types, is whether it’s truly passive collection, or if just a self collection device based on old technology.
Trovagene and Delphi are the only two which are truly passive. Trovagene used your morning urine sample to search for virus. Delphi used a lavage technique to passively harvest cells already discarded and trapped in cervical mucus.
IF you have HPV, you want the Delphi or the Trovagene types.
And I’ll note here Delphi doesn’t appear to me as approved…
IF you have HPV, the virus sits on the top layer of cells… As you know, ANYTHING that disturbs or abrades the tissues is giving the HPV virus a free pass into deep tissues where it can invade as it wants.
The so called patient friendly nylon bristles just infected you beyond your surface tissues. Fighting off the virus is all but impossible after that point.
So what’s the advantage, after the fact, of these self tests, if you’re doing harm to yourself in place of the doctor doing it?
IF any healthcare professional wishes to debate me on this…fire away!!
Reading the link to the pilot HPV testing in the UK: after the fanfare announcement, it says it is actually only 5,000 women from GP surgeries who will be taking part. Tiny numbers when they send out 4 million summons letters every year. My guess is that they are still only limiting self-testing to the most very vulnerable groups, who are at some risk but not tested in years. TBH I don’t think they give a damn about the rest of the population, who if they can be bullied into 3 tests in a lifetime are probably not at risk anyway.
Oh yes Gem I can see it now, those uninformed who will say “ but HOW can a woman perform a smear on herself?” not realising it’s a swab, so if you can insert a tampon you can insert a swab! Or the “now we have given the snowflakes who are too embarrassed to get their vaginas out a self test they have NO excuses now, they MUST test now…..”
Ugh, yes I can see all of those too. In fact, I did have a conversation with a woman once who just refused to accept that even a swab test was safe. Apparently it will lead to accidents and serious injury unless administered by a medical professional. Mind you, she claimed she was getting all this from the ‘nurses she worked with’. She didn’t have an answer when I mentioned the lack of serious injury related to STD self testing! And I don’t recollect reading about people being hospitalised due to covid tests either!
Gem…. luv it! You’re brilliant!!😸
Cat and Mouse, I think the whole cervical screening programme is broken, and the powers that be are finally recognising this! Women aren’t being swayed by tv adverts, awareness campaigns, newspaper articles telling them not to be scared of smears, or maybe even pressure from their doctors to screen. Some amazing young women like our Helper and Jules are opting out before even their first “invitation “! Hopefully more and more are finding out for themselves and declining. Let’s hope they roll out the self test for those who wish to screen! Though as I said above, I can see pressure being put on the so called silly snowflakes, now you don’t have to get your vagina out in public so you must test now!!
Hi kat, thanks for the mention but to be honest it was a no brainer ,once I had the information i needed the decision was easy. I feel blessed for Jules and everyone else on here for the guidance recieved,being able to avoid the dangers of this exam has given me piece of mind , unfortunately Jules didn’t escape completely unscathed and had three tests, one when she was about 14 because of a problem she had , I don’t remember much about it ( a very painful and heavy flow) only that she used to lay on the sofa with her head on dads lap and he spent ages stroking her hair and mom making endless hot water bottles for her tummy , after a couple of days mom thought it was best to go to the doctor (our childhood doctor, male)she came back as white as a sheet(no cervical screen but she had to have a pelvic exam) and refused to talk about it, the next was her 25 yr scheduled exam ,which she says was done by the nurse and was uncomfortable but bearable, she has told me not to write about her third time she will tell this herself when she’s ready but after ‘‘this one she decided not to attend again” , I just wish she could have found this site sooner herself. everyone here is incredible, many , many thanks and much love Helper xxx.
WTF?? They smeared a 14 year old for a heavy periods?? Sick! Jules my heart goes out to you. Helper, your right, the women here including yourselves are amazing, the support and advice I’ve had here over the years is something I’m so so grateful for!
Hi ladies,
Just catching up on the latest comments and what sticks out to me is the fact that these minor celebrities that pop up from time to time to “educate us “ are so misinformed themselves, the tv presenter Steph McGovern is in a same sex relationship so she would at the lower end of the scale for infection of hpv if any risk at all So it seems to me that even when these people inform us ,that they are still misinforming us ,as their view is completely bias. If programs like this are to be shown it should be objective with views from both sides but this is highly unlikely to happen as they know they would end up on fire if they came across anybody with knowledge on this, and as for the guy on the programme I’m sorry for his and his sons loss but if she undertook all of her smear invites and it didn’t save her why is he trying to impose this test on others why is it so hard for him to understand we can make our own minds up and don’t need his input .
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-screening-programmes-kpi-reports-2020-to-2021
Just posting the latest uptake figures for screening in the UK. Figures only go up to end of March 2020. Cervical screening uptake for under 50s had fallen 1% to 68.3% just before the lockdown in April 2020. Breast screening uptake had slumped a full 10% down to just 55% uptake. There will be no figures from April-September 2020. Let’s hope they don’t ever recover.
Hi adawells,
No doubt the powers that be,will put the failing numbers down to the corona virus epidemic and in no way admit that it’s their test that’s the problem, but in the future when they cannot blame the virus and the figures are still falling what excuse will they use next, they appear to of used them all up, maybe this is the actual turning point and the demise of this horrid test
Hugs Jules x.
Sorry just seen they didn’t smear a 14 year old but a vaginal exam at 14 isn’t much better!
Hi kat, no smear was involved , just the finger bobbing, but just think what that was like at the age of 14 1/2 at this time I had , had no involvement with boys at all so this was a little traumatic for me , the doctor tried to be gentle and reassuring and mom was their with me holding my hand , I was just lying their trembling and I just turned my head away from mom and the doctor as I couldn’t look at them while this was being done to me. at one point I thought I was going to be sick After the exam when I had dressed the doctor said he knew the exam could be upsetting for girls but that he needed to rule out any serious problems I might have , he talked some more about stuff mainly to mom I don’t think I was paying much attention due to the shock and embarrassment of what had just happened, i was given two different tablets to take ,one was iron tablets and can’t remember what the others were and he said if I had the same problem next month to come back and see him again, and they would do some blood tests but whatever it was cleared,whether it was the tablets or just got better I don’t know, and since then everything has been pretty normal thank god and hopefully stays that way
hugs Jules x.
How traumatic, I’m so sorry to hear that happened. I saw one of those parenting ‘vlogs’ once where people give way too much information about their children to the whole internet. The mother was taking her preteen to the OBGYN “because she had started her periods” . Afterwards, she said “I really wasn’t sure what to expect, like I wasn’t sure whether they would want to do a pap smear or not but in the end they didn’t.” The way she said it was like she would have just gone along with it if they had wanted to – on a 12 year old!!! I was beyond disturbed and no, I don’t know why I watched it either!
God, I have nightmares that my sister will do this to her kids. Since having kids,she’s gotten on the pap carousel and while we are sisters and do love each other, there’s always been a sort of…contempt in her towards me too. I told her about the issues with pap.and that if I was concerned I’d go for an hpv self-test as I’m.a virgin and she’s in a monogamous relationship, but she dismissed me as being just a child who doesn’t like being touched and doesn’t care enough about my health unlike her, who has kids to think about. (I’m older than her, but it is common knowledge in my family that there’s a perimeter I have for touching and I’m uncomfortable with it unless I’m fairly well-acquainted with the other person, and I do think about her kids because if anything happened to her I might need to step up, and I already do that a lot now just to make things easier on her).
Then someone at work told her about how easy it is to get a false positive pap,like, the wrong bath soap could cause an”abnormality”. I pointed out that that is exactly what I told her that she didn’t believe,but I don’t think it got through. A random stranger was reliable,but not me.
And I have worried like hell that my beloved little nieces will be brought in for the Roto rooter treatment without question on some perverted doctor’s demand when they get older. I mentioned it to my mom,and she was horrified as she hadn’t even considered that might happen–shes already concerned about the medical merry-go-round sis is already trapped on and hadn’t realized she might do the same to her kids. Esp if the doctor gives her the “so they don’t have hang ups later” spiel, given her contempt for my position on it as “childish embarrassment and mental illness”.
Jules that’s horrendous! Thinking of you x
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21257-6
Well, well.
Some great research here to try and find out if women with postmenopausal bleeding can be spared the brutally painful outpatient hysteroscopy procedure, where a rod with a camera on the end is shoved throught the cervix into the womb and integral pincer tools can cut off suspicious looking bits of womb lining. Not fun, and often done in the UK without any anaesthetic, so women can skip merrily off to work afterwards. What actually happens is that many are so deeply traumatised from the severe pain, that they have to lie down afterwards and suffer PTSD for years.
This study looks at using urine (who’d have guessed it?) and none other than the Delphi Screener, which I seem to remember Elizabeth saying has mysteriously been withdrawn from the Australian markets, for fear women might start using it for HPV self-testing for cervical cancer. The Delphi screener now appears to have come out tops as the most reliable non-invasive tool for diagnosing endometrial cancer. Great news, but can’t help thinking the correct tools for diagnosing womens’ cancers have been around for years, but have been pushed aside to secure blind adherence to the pap smear programs.
There was an article in The Times today about using urine tests to detect prostate cancers. They could save a fortune on hysteroscopy by using a urine test, never mind saving women from the lottery of inhumane pain of what is becoming a routine screening test. Where is the will to do it?
Comfort and convenience with respect to men’s health care always seems to be paramount – women’s, not so much. As for hysteroscopy, there is very little will to substitute something non-invasive, at least not in the US in our profit-driven system. Here more is better, i.e., the more procedures doctors perform, the more money they make and gynecologists won’t benefit from something like a urine test. But at least women undergoing hysteroscopy are put under general anesthesia – after all, anesthesiologists have to eat too. /s
Your information today is probably the 2nd most important factoid I’ve read here!
I have a hysteroscopy in my future. It will be done under general. There was no way my husband would ever consent to me doing is w/o any anesthetic and analgesia. I’m very fortunate for this doctor.
I desperately want, please, that information about the Delphi Screener and endometrial cancer. I’ll see if my husband can track it down.
I posted the other night about the Delphi vs the “new” (old dumb idea) “patient friendly” brushes for self testing. Delphi is sold by one of those companies. The one who’s brush begins with “A”.
I think it’s the coolest thing medically since Trovagene. Meaning using Delphi for endometrial Dx. Passive biopsy collection is perfect.
What else I’d like to know, If a woman has endometrial cancer or similar awful disease, and her partner performs oral on her, to orgasm (or few), is he tragically exposed to HPV or the CC itself? Or for that matter endometrial? Would a woman carry more risk of oral to vaginal exposure?
Anybody else ever wonder?
Thanks kat, but it’s really ok ,I’ve dealt with it mentally, and I know mom only had my best interests at heart and at the time probably the doctor as well, I feel more sorry for the women who have difficulty mentally coping with this type of trauma and carry it around with ,them for years and it affecting their day to day existence that is why this site is so vitality important ( and the people on it)
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Demonhype,
It seems that your sister has become one of the sheep, and it may take some convincing to change her mind. But the main concern should be her children and her ideals should not be imposed on them, so maybe a change of tact would be in order, give them the talk on
stranger/ danger situations this is something your sister should not be opposed to ,but then make sure that they understand that this includes everyone including doctors, they may be able to protect themselves after this.
love helper x
I am afraid to do that, as she has threatened to isolate her kids from.me before, and the older one is very bonded to me and we would both be devastated. And should her mom do this horrible thing, she wouldn’t even have her aunt to comfort her and would likely have no one understand her problem.
Sorry Demonhype,I’ve tried,,but I can’t think of any other solution. Helper x.
Don’t worry about it, Helper. My mom is closer to my sister than anyone and unlike me,my sister actually takes her seriously, and even she’s unsure what to do in that eventuality or how to prevent it from happening. We’ve definitely discussed it and are at a loss.
I do hope that nothing like that happens for you. At least in the UK, we don’t subject children to anything invasive as a matter of course. Although, we do have a petition for gynaecological check ups from adolescence here by a woman on twitter who sadly had to go through cancer treatment because her symptoms were ignored. What I never understand is that conversations around symptoms being dismissed and women not being listened to are almost non-existent among these advocates – it all seems to centre around screening.
More money and power for them in screening and shipping up hysteria for it, whereas actually listening to female patients and taking their claims seriously means less power for them, but no extra money.
I’m becoming really concerned about the man who has recently started a smear test campaign. He dismisses any woman who mentions the barriers to screening, is advocating for the lowering of the age limit against medical evidence about the harms it can cause and is now advising women to contact NHS 111 to get them to book a smear test for them. People often use NHS 111 if they’re experiencing a medical event that might potentially be an emergency and they just won’t be able to get through if the lines are jammed by women trying to book smear tests! I also did a deep dive into his twitter and saw some really unpleasant comments to people on various topics that no respectable ‘campaign’ would ever make.
He seems to think that his own bereavement gives him carte blanche to push through his own agenda without listening to any alternative viewpoints or feedback from women about the potential negative impact of his messaging, or the changes he is pushing for. He claims to be ‘giving women a voice’ but he then belittles women who share an experience of finding screening difficult. Any push back and he just responds with “and you need to think about my trauma. I’m doing something amazing here”.
I’ve also been reading up on co-testing and, whilst I’m no medical professional so can’t understand all of the nuances, I came across studies which have said it markedly increases over-diagnosis. Meanwhile, he is pushing it on his feed as the answer that will ‘save many lives’. It’s scary, because he is now being given huge platforms and is being supported by ‘celebrity’ medical professionals which will be taken as an endorsement of his message. In fact, he has little to no grasp of any of the issues at hand, medical or emotional (apart from his own experience which seems to be the only thing that matters to him) but thinks his loss gives him the right to try and bring about changes which will have an impact on what is done to women’s bodies. I’m actually quite concerned about him.
So it sounds like NHS111 is like 9-11? Emergency line? Is that kind of granola even legal there? Because tying up emergency lines for none merge dies here in the US is a FLIPPING CRIME! He’d find that out in short order here, plus the bad PR when people field real emergencies because his army of misinformed women was clogging the line trying to make what is (legally speaking) a commonplace appointment and fretting that their elective coochie exams looking for imaginary problems was on the same level as a freaking heart attack.
It’s not exactly the same as 911, my understanding of it was that it’s like a triage line for people having a medical problem who aren’t sure what to do. They then give medical advice based on the level of severity i.e. whether to go to the emergency room, whether to call an ambulance, or make a GP appointment. However, sometimes, people are picked up who are experiencing an actual medical event who need urgent care and are then directed accordingly. I’ve only ever used it when I was really unwell/in pain and not sure whether to call 999 (our 911) or go to the emergency room. I was really feeling desperate, though, and wouldn’t have been impressed if I’d struggled to get through because it was being used as a booking line. The one thing I didn’t think it was is a glorified reception for booking screening tests! This is the website, in case you’re interested! https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/urgent-and-emergency-care-services/when-to-use-111/
Okay, so not quite as serious as 911 but not as casual as booking a non-emergency appointment for someone who knows what they think and what they want, that has nothing to do with medical uncertainty. Still sounds like there should be repercussions, as it sounds like there are medical emergencies on there. One person gets harmed or killed because they couldn’t get through for an actual problem in time because this jackass sicced his army of fainting fairy princesses onto the line to book their pablum exams in some mindless attempt at making a public statement and that is some bad PR for him.at least.
He’s also set himself up as a “charity” although as it’s not registered, there’s zero oversight of what he might be doing with any money well-meaning people might donate. He should not have been given such a big stage without proper vetting.
He’s also advocating for things that are potentially harmful. Anyone who points this out seems to get gets blocked.
Hi Gem,
I wouldn’t let it bother you too much, let the a..hole have his 15 minutes of fame and then watch him fall back into obscurity just as fast. This insignificant weasel sounds as if he would have made a wonderful understudy to the wonderful Rob music, and just remind me now,“where is he” lol !
Hugs Jules x.
Thank you. I actually find his campaign and the way he interacts with women a bit triggering to be honest and I don’t use that word lightly. It feels a bit abusive and narcissistic. Rob Music looked like the height of professionalism and empathy compared to this man! Thank goodness Mr Music is now confined to the domain of migraine and isn’t shaming women for their ‘ignorance’ any longer x
In the interests of fairness, I checked again and it says that “some women have used NHS 111” to someone talking about their surgery temporarily pausing screening. More like advising by stealth. Still not an appropriate use of the service though in my humble opinion and I don’t personally think it’s something to promote.
I honestly feel sorrow for anyone who has suffered a bereavement and understand wanting to do something positive with their grief. However, it’s not an excuse to talk down to and dismiss women sharing their experience of finding screening difficult in the way that this campaign does, or to ignore those concerned about the very real harms that could result from the changes the campaign is advocating for. The age is 25 for a reason – to protect young women from the harms that would result as it is unreliable in this age range. As explained repeatedly by medical professionals every time this is debated. What is really needed and should be front and centre in discussions is for women of all ages to be taken seriously when they present with symptoms. Almost every time a woman tragically loses their life and it makes the news, we hear that they were ignored or repeatedly fobbed off.
Some of the women who have tried to engage the campaign have shared their experience of trauma to show the need for sensitive conversations around screening (which so rarely happen) and he dismisses them every time, coming back at them with an attitude of “how dare you question me and tell me I’m wrong, just think of my trauma and be glad I’m trying to do something positive with it”. Not once have I seen a flicker of empathy for the women sharing their experiences, and that’s a problem. I know he is deep in his grief but he doesn’t seem to be open to anyone else’s opinion or experience. The conversations around screening are already so problematic in terms of one-sidedness, shaming, bullying and emotional manipulation, all of which go against the fundamental principle of informed consent that a more open dialogue was massively needed.
I also saw that the campaign said “nothing has been done for years” re cervical cancer awareness and support. I wonder how the women who volunteer on the Jo’s helpline etc. would feel about that. I have my issues with Jo’s Trust in terms of their messaging, but to see a women’s health campaign dismiss people who have volunteered their time and energy, many of whom are women with lived experience or people who will have suffered their own losses, is very jarring. A woman pointed out the work of Jo’s to him and, as he always does, he came back with “women are telling me different”. It’s so ironic that his response to WOMEN telling him something he doesn’t like to hear each time is to shut them down with “women are saying different”. It upsets me because I hate to see women being silenced on issues that impact them and what happens to their bodies.
If this was just one individual airing their views, especially someone who has suffered a loss, it would be one thing and I wouldn’t even pass comment. People are entitled to their opinion. But, I wouldn’t expect any of the above behaviour from a fully fledged campaign trying to present itself as legitimate. And I do think, irrespective of harrowing personal experiences which deserve the utmost sympathy, if you are going to start a national campaign to bring about changes which would impact upon what happens to women’s bodies, you have to expect women to give their opinion and at least be open to their perspectives. No doubt if he sees this he will see it as bullying and say that I’m ‘anti-screening’ (I am not, I am pro-informed choice and pro evidence-based medicine that balances risks and harms) but I have a right to comment on something that impacts me.
@Gem
““how dare you question me and tell me I’m wrong, just think of my trauma and be glad I’m trying to do something positive with it”
Okay, this sounds less like honest bereavement and more like self-centered narcissism.and inability to empathize. As in ” I don’t care about anyone else’s trauma, my trauma is the only trauma that actually matters, no one but me really understands trauma, also you should admire and worship.me for my tireless efforts to put your needs first so long as they line up with my.own,and if they don’t you should shut your filthy female gob, and aren’t I such a true hero of women!”
Its all.about his own trauma and his own sense of entitlement to tell women what they are allowed to feel.while demanding admiration for being such a champion of women’s rights. He sounds like an abuser–shut up, b$%&#, I know better than you what’s important and I am more qualified to speak for you than you are, and how dare you even suggest otherwise, do you want me to start getting mad, now shut up and do as you’re told, and the lady will have the salad. Don’t you dare tell me you don’t want the salad, you will eat what I order for you or I will shove it down your throat for your own good.
Hi ladies, I’ve found a site that I don’t think I have seen mentioned on here before, and on it there is lots of info about new breakthroughs in cancer screening and new treatments being developed and new detection methods, not sure if I quite understand it all , but I’m sure a lot on here will, the site is called
Sciencedaily . com cervical cancer news, it’s got loads of reports from all over the world, and updates fairly regularly.
love helper x.
Hi Gem,
I can see that this guy is really upsetting you ( and probably others here to)
but don’t let him , it’s pretty obvious this person is totally uninformed about women’s healthcare, so pretty much everything he says should be treated to the contempt it deserves, and given no credence at all ,a favourite tutor of mine at uni used to use Latin phrases and in this guys case he would probably have described him as an “amentis” (Latin for imbecile) or “ negat cyrtae”( Latin for cretin.)His ignorance is proof of this, sympathy for his loss maybe deserved, his reasoning on this matter nothing at all. leave him behind and let’s get on with our own
Primum non nocere.
First Do No Harm .
hugs Jules x.
Thank you Jules. I think those are wise words. I’ll work on it and won’t post anything further about him here x
Hi Gem,
I wonder if all the women who are in agreement with this plank, will feel the same way when they are sitting in the colonoscopy chair getting chunks of cervix ripped off without aneasthetic or maybe a nice cone biopsy or two or even a nice soothing lletz procedure and all because somebody deemed these cells “might “become cancerous having been registered as abnormal, even though they may well resolve themselves through their own immune system given time, I think that it would be fair to assume some would have regretted listening to these uninformed saviours of womankind instead of being more proactive to their own health by research. ( Don’t tell anyone Gem but he really pissed me off too)
Hugs Jules x.
Ugh, I know. In my experience, they’re often the most evangelical because ‘they wouldn’t be here now’ if they hadn’t had the test and had half their cervix ripped out. However, I have seen some women at the very least say they feel traumatised because they hadn’t even know that was going to happen (the good old ‘see and treat’). I remember one woman saying something like that in one of the forums and someone coming back with “Oh, I’m sorry, but it’s important to remember you would have consented to the procedure. Hope that makes you feel better” – which seemed like a massive contradiction in terms. Consent should be informed and freely given at the time, not retrospective!
On a more positive note, I saw a tweet by Jo’s linking to their manifestos for Scotland and Wales. I only read the Scotland one but self-sampling was in there quite prominently. I honestly feel that if self sampling becomes a thing, a lot of the other issues will kind of fall away and conversations around informed choice will become easier. I think a lot of it stems from women trying to create positive narratives to avoid acknowledging how traumatic and intrusive the test is. However, I know that is a long way off and not helped by the misinformation about having to remove a sample of cervical cells yourself and stupid ‘celebrities’ fanning the flames by tweeting about how dangerous and unreliable self sampling is.
Gem, this woman missed the point: you could be laying there legs akimbo speculum in colposcope or whatever poised and you can still withdraw consent and say STOP! And if they don’t it’s an assault! But then who really listens to us silly women??
To Australian women:
Just heard in the news that Australian govt decided to look pretty and politically correct, and pledged more funding for women’s health in the next budget. Of course breasts and vaginas are the biggest focus, because there isn’t much else to women.
Instead of spending taxpayer money on what makes the real difference, they will keep peddling breast and cervical screening. Expect more spam, brainwashing and coercion, more butchered cervixes and radiated breasts, so that bureaucrats could reach their targets and politicians could tick their political boxes.
Hi Alice! Another Aussie chick here. Couldn’t have put it better myself! Noone is getting near my cervix and boobs, I’ve considered the evidence and opted out, unless I have symptoms (and I know what to look out for).
I thought dementia and heart disease were the main killers of women, but then that happens to old women and they don’t have the sex appeal to make money for the press and pink ribbon charities.
Kat, oh my goodness, absolutely. And, I’m quite sure the level of distress she was experiencing would have been evident during the procedure. Consent/lack thereof doesn’t have to be verbal and medics need to be trained to keep checking in with their patients to make sure they’re still giving (and able to give) consent. God, no wonder so many are traumatised and retraumatised, these are basic principles.
Precisely! Subjugating young women is much more “fun”, and way more profitable in both monetary and political aspect.
After all the goings on in Parliament House in Canberra of late ScoMo had to include something in the budget to placate women. What a joke.
And of course the best way to show political “care” for women is to throw more taxpayer money into a crusade that will have the women scared, compliant, on their back, clothes off, and legs up in the air.
Hi, everyone. I haven’t posted on here for a while, hope everything is okay (or, at least, more or less okay- people aren’t really on this site because things go well with doctors).
I was wondering about a pregnancy thread- is there one on here or can there be one?
Hi Alex. I’m so glad you’re back. I really missed your posts. I was looking through old ones yesterday and enjoyed reading yours very much. You always had an interesting take on the subject.
Are you still in America. i remember you were hoping to travel abroad. Swizterland I think you once wrote. Did you do that.
As for me I’m in a much better place. I received an invitation for a smear test some months ago. i just ignored it and haven’t heard anything since. i just put all those smear tests I had as an unfortunate part of my past. i try not to dwell as I get angry so its not good for me. i keep up with the posts everyday. I’m so glad the site is still going strong with new posters on now.
The book I wrote really helped me get all my anger out of my system.
I don’t know about a pregnancy thread. Is your girlfriend/wife having a baby. Is that why you want one. Perhaps Sue can organise one for you.
Linda
x
Hi, Linda! I’m flattered & I had some insights that I’ll post after this.
I did go to Europe, including Switzerland, but I don’t remember it being a goal when I mentioned it- I think it was the Czech Republic (which I also made it to).
You wrote a book? What’s it called?
I’ve been thinking a lot about the concept, but I don’t have a girlfriend or wife who’s pregnant. Just figure it would be good to know about.
Hi ladies,
I wondered if anyone here knows anything more about the epigenetic test that’s being researched by the scientists at the Queen Mary University of London, this test that’s being developed has a supposed accuracy of 100 % which includes the detection of adenocarcinomas , the test can be achieved through a blood test or urine test, now that’s what I want from a test 100 % and get to keep your knickers on, can anyone help
love helper x.
Good luck on this one. As I’ve said before the Trovagene HPV Urine test was 93% accurate. Pap is 50% accurate as is.
Only Delphi Screener has that kind of accuracy.
It makes sense that they could screen for endometrial cancer as cells will shed off mothers tumor etc.
But will they be willing to offer that tech to us w/o strings attached? No.
When you search for epigenetics, adenocarcinoma, HPV, there are some results for oropharyngeal cancer studies. So head and throat cancers caused by HPV and smoking might rate worth researching but the cancers downstairs already have a huge money making industry. Remember what happened to Trovagene urine test for HPV?
Sounds great to have a simple blood or urine test but I am not interested in any health screenings. These just lead to further tests, unnecessary medications and clinic pressurings. People who want them can get them. I would just like to be able to address my personal health concerns without being pushed around for all these other screenings.
Hi ladies,
I have just watched the BBC 10.00 news, it reported that over two decades of research into early detection of ovarian cancer by ucl they failed to discover early signs of the disease in any of tests that were trialled in clinical studies of 200,000 women, so how do they condone that for decades they got away with saying they could do ,this by sticking their fingers in there, this just confirms what I have always thought ! Bi-manual ment molestation
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
I’ve been reading up on past research papers into HPV and came across a site called careacross . com in an article from 17/2/2014 . called cancer news, it appears that a drug called lopinavic which is primarily used for the treatment of the HIV virus has been found to eliminate the HPV , virus Dr lan and lynne Hampton from the university of Manchester working in conjunction with the Kenyatta national hospital (KNH) in Nairobi, Kenya , have found that Kenyan women who were HPV positive early stage cancer and were treated with the HIV antiviral drug which is normally taken orally for HIV, but for HPV is self applied directly to the cervix as a pessary, later tests showed that a high proportion of infected women with high grade HPV had returned to normal status after a short course of treatment out of 23 women 19 (82.6%) returned clear results 2 had been reduced to low grade and 17 with low grade at the start of testing showed significant reductions in the abnormal cells. I can’t find any further information on this drug but it has been used for a number of years and has no known side effects, surely more research should be done on this type of treatment instead of the normal course of action by the gyno’s where they leave the cervix looking. like it’s been attacked by a pitbull
Hugs Jules x.
Jules, I once went to a talk on this given by a hospital doctor. There is definitely a relationship between HIV and HPV, but I don’t think they can quite ascertain what it is. Doctor said that all women with cervical csncer should also be tested for HIV, as they are 5 times more likely to have it than women without cervical cancer. In my city there are self-testing HIV swab machines available at gay clubs and these have made a big difference in gay men coming forward to be tested for HIV. Great shame they cannot trust women to test themselves for HPV in a similar way, but then I supposed they may get swamped with young women finding they have it, then clearing it by themselves.
New post over on PHE Blog, special guide and checklist for those anxious about attending cervical screening! It’s 2 documents, I think it’s aimed at women who don’t have learning difficulties but apparently one gives advice on planning your route to the test!?
Also Daily fail last week, they are turning their attention to the barriers trans ppl have accessing cervical screening. However one feels about trans ppl, one suggestion is a special clinic set up just for them so they can access smears. Because this is smear tests, vital, I can see yet more money being wasted setting it up! Self testing was briefly mentioned, nowhere was it mentioned the trans ppl might have made an informed decision not to attend!!
Hi kat,
This definitely smacks of desperation ,they must be so worried that screening targets will never recoupe the numbers needed to make the programme viable in the aftermath of the pandemic,the screening targets were already in free fall before this virus , for God’s sake they will be asking you to bring your pets in next.
Love Helper x.
( haven’t commented lately because I’ve got a new love interest seems to be going ok at the minute)
Helper, you could be right, either that or they’ll start “inviting” Mme Toussards dummies! Hope love interest keeps going well! X
I agree it all sounds very desperate. They seem to have concentrated their efforts on trans men at the moment. Perhaps they think there’s no point in hassling the rest of womankind for once, but it may be the lull before the storm: June is an awareness month so I’m sure it won’t be long before we get the same old tripe again.
I saw an announcement recently that self-testing is planned for New Zealand in 2023? I think we’re still trying to invent self-testing here in the UK…
Hi ladies, It may seem to visitors to this site that we may be a little biased, so to be fair we should offer help to the opposition to level the playing field to help with their screening targets. At the moment I’m reading a book about how in the eighteenth century they could not set sail without a full crew , so men were sent out to “recruit “ sailors this was known as press ganging which involved beating someone unconscious and taking them back to the ship where they became crew, maybe the NHS could employ this tactic , arming practice nurses with clubs and deploy them in darkened alleyways in waiting for the unsuspecting, or maybe they could do as they have in the past and simply lie with the figures they publish , failing this maybe they should just give the f??k up.
Hugs Jules x.
Jules, something more sanitised was tried , I think during the programme early days, nurses would turn up on “defaulters” doorsteps haranguing them into presenting their vagina for scrutiny! Eventually they got fed up of angry women….
Hi ladies,
Waiting for the next awareness campaign in June, I thought I would look at previous attempts by these wonderful people to cajole women into testing and to see how the usual drivel has changed over the last couple of years, and came across an article written by a journalist by the name of Sophie Gallagher who had written on reasons women fail to attend sreening on the independent news paper website on 7/11/19 of course the usual crap came up about embarrassment etc but then she added that the majority of women who fail to attend were of the lower scale of education, WHAT A F&&KING CHEEK ! I wish i could have replied at the time, and pointed out that I have two degrees a first and a 2:1 which enables me to put BA and BSC after my name if I so desired ( I don’t bother ) and my decision not to screen is because of worldwide medical reviews , misinformed information by the NHS ,the dangers of being over or under treated the actual acurracy of the smear test ( 53%) at the time which is a fraction higher than a coin flip and also the chance of being sexually assaulted, also the chance of preterm pregnancies or miscarriage due to the butchered remains of your cervix, people such as these idiots fearmongering the female population should be exiled. I always thought journalists were supposed to be impartial and present both side of an issue so you could make up your own mind, obviously she must be at the lower end of education she mentions
Sorry for ranting on but this cretin really wound me up.
Hugs Jules x
Heck, I’m the most educated person in my family with two Bach of Science degrees. The least educated person in my family is the one dutifully getting smears and never questioning the doctors, and rolling her eyes calling me a “child” for expecting to retain bodily autonomy in the face of the awesome magnitude of the all-important Medical Degree.
Jules; always enjoy reading your posts. Did you get the 53% stat from us or is there another source I’m not aware exists? I had gotten 53% from Trovagene; then there’s a source from UK (an advertisement) that said 50%.
Worse yet, those women who got LEEP’d and are still mislead by their doctor that they’re gonna have a normal pregnancy. An amputated cervix under pressure will “blossom” like a premature rose.
Hi cat&mouse,
The 53% figure was from a study from the Queen Mary university of London it was an accuracy comparison for cervical screening, hpv tests and epigenetic testing their findings were paps 53% , hpv tests 71% and epigenetic testing 100% ( I cannot claim any credit for this though it was Helper who found this report)
Hugs Jules x.
That’s great! Thanks. I’d mentioned the Trovagene test. Briefly, it’s urine based, using PCR and antibody pickup. Took 2 weeks to run. It was DC in 2015 due to “lack of interest.” Yet I’m sure I’ve said here (sorry to repeat again) that the test was never publicized. I will (should have already) contact them and ask why.
A previous 2006 pap I had brought results (negative) that came along with this disclaimer from LabCorp San Diego CA:
“Pap smear is a screening test designed to aid in the detection of premalignant and malignant conditions of the cervix. It is not a diagnostic procedure and should not be used as the sole means of detecting cervical cancer. Both false-positive and false-negative reports do occur.”
Doesn’t that just make you want to crap in your doctor’s coffee cup?
I’ve also spoken of a letter to the editor posted in The Sydney Morning Herald, I believe 9/27/16.
“Pathologist 9/27” says concerns over changes to Australia’s pap program (relaxing screening demands/also self screening) were by a poorly informed person. A very small number of precancerous turn to cancer and they shouldn’t be called that. The writer says she had precancer which is very different to real cancer. She had dysplasia which is very common and in the vast majority of cases resolves. Most CIN1 and 2 resolve without treatment. Even CIN3 does most of the time. Cervical cancer is an old woman’s disease because it takes 10 years to develop. On the other hand dysplasia in young women is very common. The ratio of CC for a woman in her early 20’s is 1.6 per 100,000. The highest ratio is in women over 85. http://cervicalcancer:canceraustralia.gov.au.statistics
Leave the advice to the experts. Too many young women were having surgery on “precancers” that would have spontaneously reverted to normal. They then develop an incompetent cervix and had miscarriages. The new guidelines are correct.”
Then there’s this gem:
Truscreen FAQs. “Why have we developed a new cervical screening test? Medical professionals the world over were looking for a real time screening device to improve accuracy and patient follow up, reduce patient discomfort, and the need for supporting laboratory infrastructure and make cervical screening more available to women in remote and undeveloped regions. Feedback from medical professionals also highlighted that current laboratory Pap tests are subjective and vary significantly–only giving approximately 50% accuracy.”
Thar ye go.
It’s sickening to see how many online doctors just love and tout LEEP vs anything else. Cryo is horribly painful and pretty much dissolves your cervix. I had this and somehow mine grew back. LEEP is an amputation pure and simple. Ditto cold knife too.
The videos of these are difficult to watch.
Have a good weekend Jules. And thanks again.
Jules, I so agree! And the talk of lower socio/economic women living in deprived areas not going as well, well that could describe me, but uptake in my town is higher than that in some leafy suburbs! And I live in a very deprived area, with a high BAME population! They just love to label…..
And as I said before, when I asked doctor for non hormonal help for sweats and flushes, and she asked why not HRT, and I said because I’m not prepared to screen for breast cancer and I don’t have smears either, and she asked why!? Do you find it painful? And I gave her my stats and explanations, she couldn’t actually disagree with anything I said!
Guess we are just square pegs in round holes!! X
I simply dig that orange tabby you have. Male? How old? Adorable.
Hi Demonhype,
It’s just incredulous all I can attribute it to is brainwashing.
Hugs Jules x.
Cat and Mouse thank you! Leo is a boy, 8 years old in July and he’s the soppiest sweetest ever xxx😻
How Delivering Babies Has Advanced Through The Ages
First there was the Pumpkin Age…
When doctors carved a woman’s beautiful pumpkin into an evil nightmarish jack o’ lantern.
Then there was the Deadline Age…
Doctor looked at his watch. Deadline reached. He then aims his scalpel and slices.
Finally now we’re in the Car Wash Age…
A future doctor was employed at a car wash. While vacuuming loose change out of the unused ashtray he got a brilliant idea.
Reprint and send to all your friends.
For you Kattyrehman; with love from Cami our longhaired varmint (black cats matter) former unmarried homeless teen mother to be.
Thank you Cat and Mouse! We ❤️ Black cats and Cami is so lucky to have you!! Hugs purrs and meows xxx
Hi ladies,
Just looking through a few of the old posts from public health England, and came across Kat (you go girl) berating Anne Mackie over the right to refuse exams, and all she could do to was keep repeating we say you have the right to refuse, and the new leaflets have this information on them yadda yadda yadda ,there were others on there to all having a dig, I’ll bet she was glad to get out of there by the end of it after getting her arse royally kicked ,the point being maybe we should fire a few shots at the generals as well as the foot soldiers as these are the ones that could make changes .
Hugs Jules x.
Thanks Jules! ! It felt SO good, as I was sick at the time of smears always being brought up at doctors when I was attending with a non vaginal worry!!
Hi ladies,
You might have to bare with me on this one, as it drags on a bit. Thinking outside the box, when given a problem at uni and finding it difficult or impossible to solve one tutor used to explain to us to find alternative ways of solving it using a different approach Maybe this way of thinking could be beneficial to us, the next screening awareness campaign is due shortly and will bombard us with the usual garbage, and no doubt the same old statement of 5000 each year will contract cervical cancer. They might just of shot themselves in the foot with this, as I have been looking for different ways to combat them and came across a directive issued by the department for health, to healthcare providers ( NHS) and associated groups such as charities this is a legal requirement and has been since February 2015 it’s called
guidance for providers.
The false or misleading information offence. We all know that this number was an over estimated figure by the J . Peto report in 2004, and yet this figure is still used in today’s leaflets by them all. If this is the case and statistics haven’t changed in 17 years, it means
Cervical screening achieves
nothing.
The hpv vaccine doesn’t work .
or the information given is false , this last point then becomes an offence by their own ruling , surely we could put them on the spot to force them to introduce a more realistic number than the total fabricated stat they use to frighten women with into screening, which in turn would cause them to re-write all their leaflets and web info at a cost which would hit them financially and also their credibility,
might be worth thinking about. Hugs Jules x.
Jules, I try to do this whenever I post anywhere on social media. It is pointless trying to put the point across to the latest 25 year old screening martyr, that her smear test was likely a huge waste of time and didn’t save her life. I’m afraid you will be talking to the brainwashed faithful there.
Instead, I challenge politicians, health organisations, academics, patient forums and charity groups who promote screening with the exagerated figures, and no understanding of the test limitations, or that we even have a choice. Plenty of useful evidence in the reference section on this website. If you challenge them with actual figures, I think that’s far more worrying to them. They dread the truth getting out. I challenged a local (male) MP who was one of those invited by Jo’s Tosh to promote smear tests. I think he was genuinely taken aback that many women don’t want, let alone need this test. He soon realised it wasn’t a vote winner, never promoted it again. Not sure he’s in politics anymore. I also challenge government bodies with the actual figures and publicise the amount of public money spent on screening. It’s not free, it costs us tax-payers £187 million per year according to the latest government report by Mike Richards.
I’ve learned a lot from Eliz, who doesn’t often post on here very often now, and have taken a leaf out of her book – get solid evidence of statistics and politely quote the evidence to them in as public a place as possible, and they often back down and know the game is over.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/report-of-the-independent-review-of-adult-screening-programme-in-england.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiG3pyPtvfwAhWkAGMBHaAMCd8QFjACegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw1eWba0xB_m70WFDamsEudQ
Here’s the Mike Richards report I referred to, which claims the cost of the UK programme is £187 million.
The figures given everywhere for the benefits of this test are greatly exaggerated, and in popular culture it’s one of the leading causes of death.
The truth is never supported with a lie. With all of this false information, it is next to impossible for someone to make an informed decision – or give informed consent – for this test when she’s making the decision based on untrue data.
Hi Adawells,
You ladies never cease to amaze me,
In awe hugs Jules x.
I see that the opposite ends of the screening awareness campaign spectrum have gone into overdrive ahead of Cervical Cancer Awareness Week next week. At one end, the unspeakably crass and somewhat sexualised #dropyourpants campaign. At the other, the infantilising #weareallsmearready, with the associated hearts, flowers, handbags and pretty pink hearts. Mind you, both were accompanied by craft activities that involved decorating teeny tiny little pants. Because women’s health awareness campaigns always have to involve decorated pants. The message doesn’t get through otherwise, apparently.
Sickening isn’t it, but it’s good to see these saucy campaigns getting a backlash, even from the screening devotees. I think it’s made them realise they can’t get away with these campaigns. They’ve had to tone them down. We’ll keep on at them. They got to share the limelight with us now.
Yes, that was definitely a silver lining, albeit often in the context of “we cant have these hashtags putting any women off because it will cost millions of lives!” But definitely, a shift towards talking to women like they are adults can only be a good thing. Also, so many women were talking of how difficult, painful and traumatic they find those screening tests in the comments that it will also have to be acknowledged more – I really hope that changes the awful, shaming and berating tone that has taken hold.
Omg, so unbelievably gross!
I do find it astounding that on one hand, they assume women are rejecting the rape exams based solely on “embarrassment”, then at the same time they craft awareness campaigns that literally spotlight the genitals in the most direct and unabashed way possible, guaranteed to embarrass anyone with an ounce of human dignity.
Well, perhaps not the most direct. They could, for example, be crafting tiny little female genitals, perhaps bisected by a speculum with a tiny little cervix showing. Thank goodness for obscenity laws, or else I’m guessing that’s exactly what would happen.
Hi Demonhype,
Something else they could try,is to put a little cartoon character getting a test on the back of the coco pops breakfast cereal box , so the little ones have twenty years to prepare for it, best keep this idea to ourselves though as I wouldn’t put it past some of the sick bastards in this programme to try it
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
It seems that they have nothing left but the same old, same old.
Their campaigns are either to shame women ,ridicule them,or normalise this disgusting exam none of these have had much effect in the past, the attendance just keeps falling and I don’t expect it to be any different this time round. You will probably get the hardcore screeners clambering for their tests, but how many of the previous attenders have now decided to jump ship. It would be hard to believe that none of them that have missed their tests for months have not looked up information because they were worried, and come across sites such as this, and realised they have been conned for decades. Long live the revolution.
Hugs Jules x.
MONASH UNIVERSITY SEEKS TO RESTRICT WOMENS ACCESS TO THE EMERGENCY PILL IN AUSTRALIA, AND FORCE WOMEN TO HAVE COUNSELLING AND IUD’S IMPLANTED AGAINST THEIR WISHES
Just choked on my breakfast this morning reading what Monash University is doing to women who seek emergency birth control through a pharmacist in Australia.
It’s on The Daily Telegraph website (you have to pay to access it), but essentially its this –
“Pharmacists would offer private birth control counselling to young women who turn up wanting the emergency contraceptive pill or early medical abortion as part of an Australian-first trial to reduce accidental pregnancies.
“Instead of simply handing over the pills, pharmacists would instead ask if a woman would take part in a private-room counselling session on the available birth control options before referring them to a relevant clinic.”
“The federal government has invested almost $2.5 million towards the Monash University trial which will be conducted in 21 pharmacies in NSW, Victoria and the Northern Territory.”
“University Department of General Practice Head, Professor Danielle Mazza, said the aim was to involve 1200 women – including teenagers.”
(teenagers often look up to people who are older than them when in situations like this, and they will find it very hard to look at this and realise they DON’T need forced counselling and they have the right to get the emergency pill!!! Older women might smell a rat quickly enough and start demanding the pill without an idiot ‘counselling’ them about their choices!)
“It’s really about getting the pharmacist to be proactive at a point when women need it most,” she said.”
“If they are seeking an early medical abortion, it means they have fallen pregnant. That is an ideal time for a pharmacist to provide contraceptive counselling and refer them back into services that can provide them with a pill prescription, IUD or implant.”
Um, no. Really, no. Don’t do that. Don’t EVER do that.
You don’t put in place yet more barriers to emergency birth control. Women are not stupid. We know about the pill, IUD’s, implants, shots, vaginal rings, whatever. We don’t need counselling on our choices. Please stop trying to control women and treat us a stupid birthing machines with no brain or sense of reponsibility.
This is all about trying to keep up the status quo of treating women as a bunch of 5-year-olds.
I know if I turned up at a pharmacist needing that pill, and I had some dodgy pharmacist telling me I must have a counselling session first, I think my reaction would be to deck him one! (Not that I really would, but I’d probably start yelling non-stop and throwing whatever came to hand, at his or her head).
Apparently this is a trial to be done in 21 pharmacys in Australia. I have the feeling this ‘trial’ will quickly be imlemented across Australia and any woman needing emergency birth control will be ‘counselled’ about her silly choices, and practically forced to get an IUD implanted (this seems to be what they actually want women to do).
I know IUD’s are forcibly pushed on a lot of women and this trial might also be about getting as many women as possible to have one. I’ve had doctors appointments where the I’ve been practically ordered to get an IUD (no way in hell!) and counselled when I refused. Saying get stuffed, and how much are you being paid to show foreign objects into womens wombs, usually gets them to shut up about it.
Monash Uni is a strange and terrible uni. I know they do a lot of animal experimentation which is incredibly cruel and unnecessary. They also seem to have lost their marbles about treating women as responsible adults.
They already believe we can’t think for ourselves. Pregnant? Then they believe we can’t think at all.
Bring the partner or friend along for support.
As if an f’ing pharmacist has any formal training or qualifications in this regard.
Offer a counseling referral for her to use after the fact.
Hi ozphoenix,
How do they sign off on correspondence there, would it be
Seig heil, seig heil , seig heil
Hugs jules x.
I love you Jules, LOL!!!!
It’s disturbing that the government is funding them.
Hi oz,
After coming across this site ,I have become very cynical of the medical profession especially the gyn and gp side of things, I may incorporate a little humour in some postings, but I do take this subject seriously, the thought that so many women have been hurt mentally and physically by these people is heartbreaking,and I have wept more than once reading their stories .
The comradery on here is amazing, everyone here is exceptional , and because of this ,the day will come when we are victorious, this site is a lifeline for many. ( thanks Sue ).
ps, I do know I spelt Sieg wrong , I was never any good at German .
Hugs to all Jules x.
Well, fearmongering week has begun. Already the CEO of our favourite charity has put out a blog describing her abnormal cells result and subsequent treatment in her 20s as a ‘near-miss’ with cancer. 5 minutes was all I could bear on social media this morning, but already lots of medical professionals putting out glib tweets about how ‘simple’ and ‘easy’ the test is and how ‘every woman should have one’. For heaven’s sake, what’s wrong with just giving women the whole truth and allowing them the autonomy to make the decision for themselves? (rhetorical question, as we know why this doesn’t happen!). Cervical cancer is absolutely awful and I’m not against screening if it’s underpinned by informed consent. But, what’s more awful is women, especially the young women who would be most harmed by screening, living in fear of being struck down by a rare illness and women being coerced into an invasive test via emotional manipulation. And even more awful is the shaming and belittling way that women speak to each other about it. Facts not fearmongering!
Hi ladies, I don’t know quite what went on with my previous post but it ended up towards the top of the board for some reason, it might be because i was using Jules phone and it’s different to mine or it could be because of the liquid lunch, anyway my apologies. Love Helper x.
Sorry it’s me again , haven’t been sleeping too well lately so I’ve been up all night watching the news, the BBC says it understands the Covid jab is to be made compulsory in England for all care home staff, we know that this carries the risk of blood clots and has been determined to be the cause of death in some cases, so my question is if their autonomy is taken away , and they are FORCED to take the jab which results in a death , which minister or ministers will be facing the charge of manslaughter.
Hear in the states, we are being bribed with winning money. They want more people vaccinated. A lot of people don’t trust it. They are trying to make unvaccinated feel targeted. Like telling them they have to be excluded in certain activities. I don’t think people are listening tho.
Heck, I’ve been targeted for having the audacity to wait for the protein subunit vax that should release by the end of the year! And continuing to mask/distance though I’ll do that even after being vaxxed because I’ve read enough to know its too soon to stop. Apparently, it’s not enough for some folks to get vaxxed, it has to be mRNA or go to Hell antivaxxer,and if you’re vaxxed you damn well better drop the mask or else how will they know who to assault?
When you’re enraged that someone is choosing a different vax than the experimental mRNA, it doesn’t make you a responsible pro-vaxxer, it makes you an mRNA stan.
It makes me think of those pro-gyn, pro-pap folks who consider self-hpv tests to be exactly as bad as not being screened at all, because it’s not about a supposed “concern for health” its about pap fandom.
It’s just been announced in UK care home staff will be forced to have vaccine or lose their jobs and they are looking at making it mandatory for NHS workers too, and making them have the flu vaccine too! I can see a lot of legal challenges! I had my 1st AZ jab, but declined the second one as I’m not convinced it’s safe. I do get the flu vaccine. I do wonder what will next be made mandatory… smears maybe??
Different posters hold divergent views about the Covid vaccine and previous discussions about it got a little heated. Rather than potentially causing hard feelings among friends, I wonder if it would be best to stick with the main purpose of this board – to discuss the lack of transparency, honesty and informed consent in women’s healthcare and to educate, enlighten and empower each other to advocate for ourselves in a medical setting.
Hi Judy,
You’re absolutely right that the Covid issue should not be incorporated into our own agenda, every individual has their own opinion and right to self govern where the vaccine is concerned, I think what the others mean is that if the government can bypass the individual choice of bodily autonomy and the human rights act section 8 to achieve their goals
With this enforced proposal ,what other procedures could also be enforced in the name of healthcare by them ,and surely that does concern us and our agenda if we are complacent with this issue , we may all end up in the stirrups by law.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Jules- yes, of course and the concern about possible threats to individual liberties and bodily autonomy is very understandable. But anyhow, to follow my own advice on discussion topics – ovarian cancer has been in the news this week. Apparently, Christiane Amanpour, the CNN international news anchor was recently diagnosed with it. She said she went public “as a shoutout to early detection.” She also urged women to “get as many regular screenings and scans as you can.” Which sounds all warm and fuzzy until you realize there IS no early detection test for ovarian cancer. It’s surprising that a journalist of her stature could spread such misinformation. I wish her well and realize she may be emotional in the face of a devastating diagnosis and not thinking clearly. But she’s doing women a disservice to lead them into believing any screening or scan routinely leads to diagnosis of ovarian cancer in its early stages. Rather, as we all know, these tests are more likely to harm than to help.
It is amazing to me that people who make full information about such screenings have to include “this is not medical.advice, please do more research and discuss with your doctor” and emphasise it so it can’t be missed, but this kind of ignorant deal is allowed to be reported and promoted with zero disclaimers at all, even though our side is merely offering well-documented facts that are usually omitted from official discussions while this is baseless nonsense she is pulling out of her rear. Why are you at risk of lawsuit for telling people to do their own research and get fully informed before accepting a medical exam, but not at risk for telling people to get a medical exam to prevent a cancer it doesn’t even test for?
So telling people the well-documented but un-reported cons to compliment the overly advertised and exaggerated pros of a medical test needs a careful disclaimer, but telling people to get thorough genital exams to prevent ovarian cancer despite there being no test in existence for ovarian cancer is just fine as-is?
Never give up arms for peace & security.
You get neither in return.
Has anyone UK noticed that this year there’s less in the press about cervical hysteria week? Daily fail would usually have printed a couple articles by now raising awareness!? Nada so far! Not that I’m complaining!
Hi kat,
Don’t forget pro screeners have just gotten their arse kicked for one of their latest promotional slogans, and they maybe at a loss as to which direction to go now as in the past they relied heavily on ridicule,I suppose it would be too much to ask , for truthful disclosure on test accuracy, information on false negative or false positive findings and the treatments and after effects of these, proberly not . So I’m just waiting for the next infantile and scolding attempt by them to round up the herd, it’s almost pitiful (NOT). Hugs Jules x.
Hi Judy,
Sad news about Christiane Amanpour, but what surprises me most is her total lack of understanding, by anyone’s standard she couldn’t be described as dumb, she was well educated achieving good grades at school and going on to gain a degree in journalism from Rhode Island university, she’s gone on to jetting all around the world reporting in war torn world conflicts and becoming a news anchor person with her own news programme.
At 63 years old she has probably had considerable life experiences, so why has she been so naive over her illness it just doesn’t make sense. The only answer I can think of is that she has been misled by the medical profession, by going for regular checks women have been led to believe this checks for every vaginal disease under the sun ,when in truth it only detects cell changes on the cervix and even then it’s far from being 100% . Surely with this being a high profile case and her going public with it , why has no medical establishment has come forward to correct her and pointed out to this present day there is no test for ovarian cancer. It simply comes down to a lack of information released by the medical profession they are reluctant to do this as more women will leave their testing programmes if the truth becomes readily available
My heart is just wrenched when I hear if any woman’s cancer story. I winder how much pain and worry Christian Amanpour had before she finally got a diagnosis of ovarian cancer. Consider Fran Drescher who had a struggle of two years to get doctors to finally diagnose her uterine cancer. Just so tragic.
It’s interesting because the medical establishment has occasionally publicly corrected celebrities who give inaccurate information – i.e., that early detection of breast cancer is always lifesaving when in reality 25%-30% of these cancers, even if found by mammogram, eventually metastasize. Perhaps in the case of Ms. Amanpour its more difficult because she hasn’t disclosed any specifics about her case (like stage, etc. – though it was likely discovered late stage as the vast majority of these cancers are). For all anyone knows, she was having her much-touted regular screenings and scans and was the one in a gazillion who got extraordinarily lucky and her cancer was found early this way. But that would be an extremely rare case and she would still be irresponsible for spouting this wildly inaccurate information.
Hi ladies,
Just come across a report from 2017 and wondered if anybody else had seen it. In an observational study by the Keck School of medicine usc, found that the use of iud’s led to a decrease of cervical cancer in approximately 30% of the study participants which involved 12,000 women, the lead professor a dr Victoria Cortessis phd said the findings were astounding although there is no clear indication why this is, it is the belief that the body responds to the introduction of the iud as a foreign body and reacts by increasing the immune system in that area, and in turn eradicating the hpv virus if present. Just wondered if anyone has any further info on this.
Love Helper x.
HPV reduced? If woman has hpv already, and especially if it’s in the endocervical canal, then inserting an iud would spread hpv further.
Hi ladies,
Just been on Jo’s tosh and things might be looking up, they have always liked passing the begging bowl round , but times must be especially hard at the moment, as when you check out their donation section they are asking for
£16.00 , £30.00 or £50.00 , off their followers, looks like times are a bit grim for them at the minute
( where’s the chianti) lol.
Hugs Jules x..
Hi ladies,
In Scotland the screening programme has come in for criticism for the exclusion of 430 women from smears who had , had sub-total hysterectomies over the past 24 years, which has led to the death of one of them from cervical cancer.
The women’s health minister
Maree Todd acknowledged the failure and apologised to the women involved, and condolences to the family of the deceased woman, the remaining women have been fast tracked for appointments with hospitals and gp’s , the Scottish government has provided funding to Jo’s tosh to give support and advice to women who may of been affected, after cervical awareness week, this incident is most certainly not the best way to promote their programme, if they must impose this dreadful test on women they should at least get it
f..cling right. My heartfelt sympathy goes out to this women’s family.
and an increased hatred to this profession.
Hugs Jules x.
Hey everyone. So, I’ve been doing lots and lots of reading and research on pregnancy and unassisted childbirth, specifically on the “Women Against Stirrups” website, which led to many other sources I was able to get my information from. My eyes have been wide open to, whenever my time comes, wanting more and more to give birth completely unassisted at home instead of at a hospital. First off, I already know that even during pregnancy, the pap tests (aka the medical rape tests) are completely unnecessary and are sometimes the primary causes of miscarriages (omg who knew?? *sarcasm*). Second, the fact that pregnancy and childbirth are treated as one of the most serious medical emergencies is just outrageous. Seriously? One of the most natural of things in the entire world that humans and all other species of animals have been doing since the beginning of time, is an emergency situation and when not done with 50 doctors and nurses intervening the entire time it’s “risky” and “dangerous”?
I have learned that through my reading, the primary cause of labor pains being as intense as they are, is intervention and lack of privacy. The cervix is basically a sphincter, like one in the anus. It does NOT respond well to commands like “push” and “just relax.” It doesn’t respond well either to eyes gazing in that area, and that is why the uterus and cervix tenses and tightens up so much more than it should. Even if you “trust” the doctor or midwife, your body tells you “I am NOT comfortable with this.” There are MUCH fewer risks of complications during pregnancy and birth if you just let your body do its thing and do it all on your own. Women back in the day and even other animals would completely isolate themselves and do their laboring and birthing within a matter of 2 hours, wash themselves off and their newborn baby, and come back and resume their normal life. Because of no intervention, their births were relatively painless and effortless, which in turn won’t cause them to tear!
With all this amazing and informative information I’ve read, I’ve decided that whenever my time comes, whenever my husband and I decide to have kids, that I’ll be birthing at home, unassisted. I only have a few questions, however. What if I experience some complications in the middle of the pregnancy, or will it be less likely that I’ll experience complications with the unborn baby when I don’t go in for exams? Because of course, I know there can be like premature heart problems or other defects, when not taken care of, that can be very dangerous and possibly fatal to the mother. If the fetus dies and I have a miscarriage, would I just have to run to the bathroom and let the sac come out or something? I would love to hear all your guys’ input and knowledge on this subject. Sorry if there are a lot of questions lol and sorry this post is so long, but I appreciate if any of you took the time to read. Also, would I be able to go to non-transvaginal ultrasounds without the pressure of getting any pelvic exam done? (Probably not lol)
Hey Anonymous! I don’t know which country your in, but I read an article in a UK magazine about non medicalised birth. Here in UK it’s perfectly legal to refuse some or all pregnancy care, including scans and ultrasounds. It’s also legal to give birth at home with no midwife or medical ppl around. I guess the cons of no care is that you could end up with a prolapsed cord or low lying placenta which could cause problems. I wrote a birth plan, 25 years ago, I had all my scans , but requested a minimum of internals and didn’t want my waters artificially broken. My daughter was also overdue, and I didn’t want to be induced; she was still moving fine, and I went regularly to hospital for monitoring, she came when she was ready! Let us know what happens with you!!
Hi Kat, I’m in the US and unfortunately it’s legally required to have a midwife or doula or something if you’re doing a home birth… however my mother is a doula so I can easily have her be my doula and I know she’ll definitely respect any of my requests. However I’m wondering if I would be able to like, not tell my doctor when I get pregnant, and no one in the medical field has to know until after they’re born lol, would that be possible or is that “too risky” for the baby or myself? Or maybe, I can just go in for ultrasounds and let them know that my mom will be my doula and everything’s good??? Sorry, a hundred more questions haha.
Also, I hate the idea of inducing labor! Seriously, so what if they’re not due EXACTLY on their due date??? They’ll come out when they’re ready! Birth being so medicalized is just beyond me… it’s 100% natural, not a medical emergency.
Anyway, I’d love to hear more input. I think my only other concern really is maintaining a healthy weight, because I’m a little underweight, and I hear that I’d be at risk for a premature birth. I’m 5’7 and weigh around 115lbs; super high metabolism lol. Really the only way I can gain weight is by lifting weights. Cardio won’t do much, so I need to actually lift and eat a ton more protein.
If you’re forced to induce, it’s so painful you’ll never want to birth again.
Hi Anonymous,
I’m of the same view.
My advice to you (based on homebirth midwives’ views in Australia) is that your vagina does not ask for your BMI.
Second, inductions… here in Aus, they put in a epidural, which basically immobilises you. More often than not, the baby can’t cope with the unnatural intensity.
Hi anonymous, Reading your post, you are already going in the right direction by researching, the female body is amazing, and reproduction is a natural process, when you decide to have children, be wary of medical intervention remember it’s your body your decision and they can’t do a thing without your concent, when I arrived at this site I was clueless, now I say “bring it on”.
Hi Anonymous: again, I think it boils down to the law in your country: legally there you have to be attended at birth, what rules apply to pregnancy?? I have read things are tightening up in the USA all round with abortion and fetid rights? Here as said we can refuse any or all care and don’t have to be attended! I agree 100% with all your comments about birth being medicalised but being so natural, I remember being shocked when I was pregnant for 1 st and only time 25 years ago I was classed as an older 1st time mum at just 32!?
Sorry should read foetus rights not fetid!!!
Hi ladies, it seems that Matt Hancock is in deep trouble for being exposed as an adulterer, and breaching social distancing rules, let me guess , would it of been by two metres and six inches maybe, no doubt he will be replaced , hopefully by someone who is more sympathetic to scientific studies, and reasoning.
Love Helper x.
Hi Helper yes another slime ball gone! I wish the whole bloody lot would go! As someone who endured sexual harassment for years in my last job I was really upset about Boris rape comments last week, and can only imagine how rape survivors felt!! I still remember Demonic Cummins as I call him driving to a beauty spot to test his eyesight! Now Matt cock it up Hancock (in more ways than one) has gone too!
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2021/215/8/self-collection-cervical-screening-renewed-national-cervical-screening-program
HPV self-testing still so slow in coming, which this Australian paper puts down to a complete lack of awareness, not only amongst women, but also amongst GPs. Even after becoming available since 2017, they still don’t appear to know about it. It is sad that they are still doing these pilots, when other countries have reported on self-swabbing as being much preferred to the violating invasive test. They report only 57% uptake of cervical screening in Australia, (much of that under pressure, no doubt), but don’t seem to think that this shows an overwhelming lack of acceptability of the invasive test. Yet they do all this research into whether women would find swabbing themselves in private an acceptable experience.
Hi adawells,
My take on this, is that the powers that be have designed the self test programme for HPV to fail from the onset, if they were truly serious about implementing it , there would of been a massive public advertising campaign, with all the relevant information being on radio , tv , newspapers, women’s magazines, leaflets through doors, they might have the impression that if it’s kept low key and uptake is low they can say that it was introduced but because of lack of interest ,they are reverting back to the old method, as we all know they hate relinquishing their “power” over women, keeping us in the dark and feeding us misinformation has always been the rule of the day.
Hugs Jules x.
The ideal “self-test” is the Delphi Screener. This is the only “passive collection” test in existence. Meaning although you do insert it into the vagina, it doesn’t physically harm nor disturb the cervix.
Like the Trovagene test; but that’s based on urine. So both are passive but different in how each is utilized.
The other self test kits all involve some sort of “swabbing” the cervix.
This, as I’ve said, disturbs the mucus covering the cervix.
If you’ve got the virus, the last thing you want is to possibly scratch or message the virus into the tissues. That mucus is there for a reason. It’s to protect. And lubricate.
So yes, the self tests selected are set to fail.
Because no doubt these will spread the virus around the cervix.
Business has changed somewhat, but it’s still business as usual.
Please take this info to your healthcare HQ and ask them to comment. I’d love to know…
So Seeker will have a series about women’s health and why its so limited. This opener gave a promising start by decrying bikini medicine, but is it my imagination or does it go on to promote bikini medicine in part?
Thought I’d send this out to my pro-choice-in-health-care sisters to see what you think and to heads-up for the future of this new show. If they go off the rails into pro-bikini medicine while pretending to oppose it, I’m sure they’ll get some good pushback!
Hi Demonhype,
Any open discussions on female healthcare is welcome , bringing this topic to the masses so more awareness is available is fantastic, as long as it’s non biased and all sides have their chance to air their opinions .
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Jules!
I get it, I’m just hoping its not, like, an attempt to co-opt gyn-critical language and terms for the industry propaganda machine. Seen that happen a scary lot of times in.other contexts. So the “isn’t it just terrible how women’s health only focuses on bikini areas to the exclusion of everything else, now lets focus on the bikini areas” makes me a bit apprehensive.