Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.


  1. Is there no end? Daily fail report Loose women star Nadia Sawalha is the latest “celeb” to film her smear test after the naughty woman put her smear off foe ONE WHOLE YEAR…..arrest her!!

  2. The campaign – being run by Public Health England – has avoided the term “smear test” amid concern it may be putting people off. Officials said the term was outdated and hope the term cervical screening will “normalise” the procedure.

    Do they seriously think we are that thick! That the wording makes any difference…clutching at straws as usual! “Normalise” the procedure….what a joke! Any family member/friend trying to “remind me” that I must screen will get a very angry reaction! Yet again it quotes “Every year about 2,600 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer and nearly 700 die from the disease.” So why do I still see elsewhere that it saves up to 3,000/4,000/5,000? And not open to comments, dam I wanted to retaliate!

    • I’m watching a doctor on the BBC talking about this. She is saying that the smear test is going to be rebranded to cervical screening – but still talks about examination as a smear test! She then states that as a health professional she sees women’s vaginas every day and so women shouldn’t be embarrassed. That’s alright then. So long as the doc is comfortable. 🙄

      • Hmmm the point is some woman feel it’s violating. I also don’t like that woman are not given a choice . I’m saying no, not because I’m embarrassed but bc it’s violating and someone else’s agenda for my body . When the screening involves penetration of someone else’s sex organs they need to respect the patients choice. Instead of using words like should must have too. Doctors need to get concent fist. Respect and concent is lacking in womans health. Meadical bords/ doctors the meadical community has a lot of nerve telling woman and doctors what should be done to womans bodies in the name of health care.

  3. How can opening the vagina with a crow bar and shoving a brush up it ever be normal in any way or context whatsoever? Ok it’s not a smear test anymore. I still won’t be booking one…

  4. I note the gyn doctor on the BBC said that women shouldn’t be embarrassed as she sees vaginas everyday. That’s alright then. So long as the doc is comfortable. 🙄

    I also note that Public Health England Twitter isn’t getting any positive responses.

    Oh dear.

    • I read an article in the Medical Examiner, can’t link it, written by a female GP, a “humorous” video on the different types of pubic hair she sees when taking Pap smears – the full bush, the trimmed bush, the landing strip and all-off…
      I didn’t think it was funny…more disrespectful..
      At the end, a little message appears, “are you overdue?” (or something similar)

      I think to normalise this repulsive test, they had to convince women it was no big deal, no need for embarrassment, we see thousands etc. etc.
      They had to convince us comfort, dignity and bodily privacy should be put to one side, the pap test demanded it. Of course, feelings of embarrassment, violation, humiliation etc. are all perfectly reasonable and to be expected.

  5. This Morning on ITV are running a campaign “Click here to face your Smear”. It appears the rebranding juggernaut has hit the buffers already. It’s only day one.

    • Speaking of rebranding, only today Rob Music (vomit) has put out a tweet saying he’s weighing up the future of the smearforsmear campaign based on the fact everyone’s pushing for ‘cervical screening’ to be used.

      Wouldn’t that be a great excuse for him to wind up his failing campaign AND save face?

  6. If they want to re-brand, one word they could change is “attendance” and variations on it. “Attendance” brings to mind school, something you’re supposed to go to. In the UK there are “attendance officers” who check up on children who regularly miss school. It implies you’re doing something wrong if you don’t “attend”.

    I also saw a woman on the BBC news (may have been the doctor, which makes it even worse) saying it’s a preventable cancer. It was very much with the tone that if you only went for screening, then you wouldn’t ever develop it. What a nice thing for women who HAVE had regular smears and still developed CC to have to hear. Or the women who chose to screen but delayed it for one reason or another. They’ll now have this horrible thought that their delay allowed time for the cells to become cancerous.

    In fact, that tone of “it’s preventable if YOU screen” could put people off going to the doctor with symptoms. They could be worried they’re going to be treated as if it’s their fault.

    Just all-round dreadful reporting of this today. The ad campaign itself is patronising and one-sided. Zero mention of choice, consent, risks, and what the relative benefit is.

    On Twitter I saw a waxing salon giving free bikini waxes to women who prove they attended a smear appointment. I have no words… well except that surely the Advertising Standards Agency/Trading Standards can’t condone a business offering a free gift in return for a *medical procedure*.

    • I agree. They also need to rethink their “invitations.” An invitation is something optional which you can accept or decline as you wish.

      Cervical screening “invitations” just assume you’ll be attending. That’s a summons in my book. All they need to do is add a ‘thanks but no thanks’ slip but they won’t. Why? They can’t continue to harass you if you’ve done that.

      It’s not as bad a breast screening making an appt for you but it’s similar.

      How can informed consent and choice be respected if the starting point is an assumption you’ll attend? That’s coercion.

      Today I saw the revolting Dr Ellie share a Tweet saying “It only takes about five minutes, and you have to go once every three or five years depending on your age.”

      Have to? Have to? I tagged the GMC in it mentioning the ethical violation. They won’t do anything but with the program on its last legs and propaganda increasingly desperate, I’m of the belief that every bit of noise helps.

    • Exactly.
      A female relative of mine developed breast cancer thirty years after she stopped getting mammograms due to her religion. She suspected that she had it a few weeks before but she delayed going to the doctor because she knew that she would be bombarded with questions and blaming.

      Also, I find it very telling that they don’t put the same pressure on women who are not “attractive” by society’s standards (overweight, older, physically handicapped, etc.). Nevertheless, they claim that after 60, there is no risk of cervical cancer. Why not? Wouldn’t the risk rise with age due to more partners or more time for the virus to do damage?

      They simply don’t feel aroused looking at a naked 60+ woman… It’s all about then.

      • I had a doctor not take no for an answer, making it as bad as a really bad date from high school plus a pushy used car salesman. I’m overweight, older, and physically handicapped – hardly “attractive” by ordinary standards. It didn’t help me this time. 😦

      • Exactly, Beth. If anything, I think older women may be even more vulnerable in a gynecologist’s office than younger women because they are more likely to be diagnosed with abnormalities such as fibroid tumors. One of the tricks gyns use to get women to submit to hysterectomies is to say a fibroid is growing very fast and could be cancerous, which is seldom the case but gets the woman into the operating room. In addition, older women often have abnormal pap smears caused by hormonal changes during menopause, which gets them on that medical merry-go-round of more testing. Gynecologists are surgeons – that is what they are trained to do, and that’s what they want to do – surgery. And many of them are not above using tactics like a used car salesman to get a woman to go along with it.

      • Judy,

        The doctor in question was a GP who I was seeing for continued care for hypothyroid and diabetes – and he spent the whole visit on pap scares. I know the best way to handle gyn offices – STAY OUT OF THEM!

        What doctors have to sell is FEAR. If they’re not getting enough “business” from treatment for actual diseases, injuries, and disorders, just scare someone into wanting more.

        ….And people wonder why the US has an “overuse” problem with medical care.

      • bethkz, do you mind me asking? What was his response when you declined? How did you stand up for yourself in that situation?

      • Kleigh,
        This doctor was wearing a surgical mask that day, explaining when he entered the room that he had a cold.

        He asked the reason I was there, and I responded “follow-up on my diabetes and hypothyroid care and treatment.” He looked at the paperwork, and asked, “So, when was your last pap?” I had intentionally left that blank. “I stopped having those years ago.” He pushed for “How long?”, to which I eventually responded, “20 years”. He got excited then, and said, “Oh, you need one RIGHT AWAY THEN!” I declined. Then, “Why, might I ask?”

        I said that this was a rare cancer, which just over 12,000 women in the US were diagnosed with last year, and just over 4,000 died. That ratio of approximately 3:1 has remained stubbornly constant for decades, in spite of advances in cancer treatment, whereas the survivability of other cancers has increased.

        He stated that EVERYONE who has a cervix needs to have a pap test. “That’s no longer the standard of care, according to the ACOG. No one under 30, and women over 60 or 65, nor women who have terminal conditions should have a pap test.”

        We went around and around, including the typical propaganda, that it’s a “Leading cause of women’s cancer deaths.”, which I repeated the statistics. “Where are you reading this stuff? Blogs on the Internet?” I said, “Yes, I’m reading studies from the US Preventive Task Force, the ACOG, studies from other first-world governments, reputable universities, and so on. I’ve got a scientific degree, I can read a scientific paper, evaluate the quality of the information, look at conflicts of interest and funding sources.”

        He said he could not adequately care for me if I refused this test. What? You’re going to refuse to treat conditions which are diagnosed by lab tests by several doctors in deference to an optional screening test for a rare cancer, which I am very unlikely to have?” I got up. He said, “No, no. I never said that I would not refill your prescriptions! I recommend that you have these (recommended blood tests to evaluate treatment for the conditions I came in about).” I got the blood tests at the lab.

        On Friday of that week he came back with the test results, amazed that they indicated that I was taking good care of my diabetes. He recommended that I continue on the medications, doses, and diet I was on. He ended the call by calling me “My Dear”, and hung up.

        This was beyond creepy! A man I’d just met, whose face I had not seen, who tried for at least a half hour to talk me into allowing him to finger me, is now using terms of endearment! I thought about it over the weekend. As, by now (and since), I’ve been obsessing about the situation, I looked at more data and blogs where I can talk to others – including becoming active again on this one. I may have PTSD, and obsessing is part of the condition, but I’ve learned to do that productively and rationally.

        On Monday, I called the office to talk to him, “Can I ask what this is about?” I gave a vague response that it was about my recent visit. He called back in less than an hour.

        When he called back, I started talking to him about Informed Consent, that the existence of the legal right Informed Consent implies the legal right to refuse to give that consent – and he was not accepting that refusal and that coercion precludes consent. Then, pointed out that I am a survivor of rape – including rape by a medical professional in a hospital, and a situation where a doctor insisted on pelvic exams every week! That doctor is long dead, and by the time I realized it was medicalized sexual abuse, it was too late to do anything about it. We are trained to trust doctors, and that one violated my trust.

        After that, his voice was indicating that he was a bit nervous. “I wouldn’t have forced you.” I explained that coercion is not necessarily physical force. I had a choice – I could forgo my treatments or give in to the test was the implied choice. It’s much like a robber putting a knife to someone’s throat giving them the choice of “your money or your life”. Diabetes is the cause of death of more than 30,000 people per year. Now, dying of diabetes issues is not my preferred form of death, but I’d take it if I needed to. The alternative of dealing with the aftermath of such an examination would not be acceptable to me. The issue has led me, as well as thousands of others with similar experiences to avoid medical care altogether. And, yes, I’ve had YEARS of therapy in dealing with the abuses in the past. “Do you know what it’s called when someone penetrates the genitalia, mouth, or any organ of excrement with an object against their consent?” “Ummm…. Rape?” (I got him to use the “r word” to describe the situation, rather than me.)

        By now, his voice was shaking. “You know, you could file a complaint with the clinic. I didn’t force you.” I told him “I know. I could also file a complaint with the State Licensing board. Had you forced me, my next stop would have been to file a complaint with the police. I had a witness in the room. I’ve thought about this a lot over the weekend, and decided that you were probably trying to be the best physician you can be, and decided to use this to educate you rather than ruin your career before it gets started.”

        I reminded him of the problems that occurred in my last pap in 1998. After that, I learned of the rarity of CC, that many paps are done to women who have been led to believe that CC is a “leading cause of death”, that coercion by deception precludes informed consent, and know how much it’s contributing to the overuse of the medical system, including overdiagnosis and overtreatment, costing the US economy billions, plus an untold amount of human suffering.

        He said, (voice still shaky) said, “Thank you for your call, and bringing all of this to my attention. I’m going to think about how I deal with similar issues in my practice.”

        Then I said that, “After all that, ending the call with “My Dear” implies and imposes an intimacy which is not there, is unprofessional, and alone it can be a form of sexual harassment.” His response, “(Swallow) I didn’t think about that.”

        Sorry this is so long.

  7. I saw the suggestion that women who don’t want to screen should fill out a form giving their reasons and that should be the end of it. This was from someone in favour of respecting the opt-out and not doing “call and re-call”.

    While I don’t agree that giving a reason should be necessary (unless it’s used to truly understand why women don’t screen and accept that the test is flawed), I would be entirely happy to provide a reason and have that respected AS LONG AS every women who chooses to screen also has to provide their reasons to screen. If anything, that’s even more essential because it’s confirming their informed consent. Given the amount of misunderstanding surrounding screening, it would also highlight just how many women aren’t really giving informed consent. If medical ethics are being followed, those women who’ve misunderstood will be corrected and asked if they still want to continue. Nearly all of the tweets I saw yesterday were women unwittingly showing they hadn’t given informed consent.

    • I saw something similar to that with the idea women are more likely to be more honest about their reasons rather than the usual embarrassment tripe. Embarrassment is a handy reason for saying no because in theory is garners sympathy, easier to swallow than “no thanks, I think it’s a waste of time.”

      I do love your idea though. I’d imagine there’s a pretty small % genuinely giving informed consent.

      • The idea that refusing is “embarrassment” is as ludicrous if every guy who was ever accused of attempted rape said that the reason she didn’t cooperate was because she was merely embarrassed, rather than the other reasons she didn’t want sex through coercion.

        The attempted rapist would be laughed out of court.

        If the guy is a doctor though, it’s not questioned.

      • I’ve noticed we seem to have more doctors facing historic sexual offences, made we wonder whether the “MeToo” movement has encouraged more women to take action.
        I’ve always felt that sexual assault in medicine is treated very differently to someone grabbing a woman in a park or on a train, for a start, it’s often called medical misconduct and in the past was usually handled by the medical board, not the police…which meant not much happened.
        Things have changed a bit, now that more women go straight to the Police.
        I’ve always felt medical predators deserve the same or even a harsher sentence than the sexual predator in the park…because the doctor has used a position of trust to take advantage..to protect patients, a firm message should be sent, and that’s not…watch out or you’ll have your licence suspended or cancelled…no, it should be prison and the cancellation of your licence. I don’t believe these are one-off cases, medical predators are likely to carry on until they’re stopped…a short suspension and then back to practice is a cruel joke and condemns more patients to sexual abuse.
        The article mentions women are much less likely to make a complaint when the assault occurs in a medical setting.
        I think these predators must have rejoiced when cervical screening arrived…

        It seems in the States, doctors are looked after as well.

  8. I think it’s natural that many women would find the test unacceptable, they knew that…that’s why we saw enormous pressure to screen and informed consent and proper ethical conduct was tossed aside. (I consider some of the testing amounted to an assault)
    I think women often say they’re too busy or can’t get an appt. when in fact they find the test completely unacceptable – painful, humiliating, violating etc.
    Again, they knew that would be the case, so we saw the program belittle women who felt that way, “stop being so immature”…”heaven help you when you have a baby”…etc.
    Has anyone heard any sort of criticism or insult thrown at a man who chooses not to have prostate screening or bowel screening?

    Bowel cancer has always taken far more lives than cervical cancer (in the developed world) so where’s the hysteria around bowel screening?
    Fact is this unreliable test that cost a fortune could only be justified if they could get about 80% of women aged 18 to 70 to have regular screening – that would have been impossible, the uptake was initially very poor, that’s why they ramped up the pressure, tied the script for the Pill to testing and paid GPs to reach targets. Can you imagine that happening with bowel screening?

    No, it was only possible because the medical profession did not respect women, felt consent and informed consent could be ignored – and they could confidently pronounce, “it was all in our best interests”…
    IMO, only dysfunctional and misogynistic thinking could find that an acceptable response….and from a group with power, unchecked power.

    Women should be free to just say NO, an “excuse” should not be necessary, because excuse implies you should be doing the test. Also, women often feel compelled to go into a very private area simply to decline a screening test, information that is our business. Some women are forced to discuss very private information again and again.
    I did explain to my GP why I wouldn’t be testing, many years ago now, but I focused on the evidence, that way I could avoid personal detail – of course, most women didn’t have access to real information, actually…in 2019, that’s still the case.

  9. https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/sexual-boundary-rules-doctors-patients-physicals-20181129-p50j2w.html
    It will be interesting to see whether the new guidelines on sexual boundaries will include routine breast and pelvic exams, neither exam is recommended here at any age. In fact, doctors have been told over and over not to do them.
    IMO, these exams are often used simply to take advantage of women.
    I’ve long been suspicious of the doctors with an intense concern about breast cancer in young women and doing routine breast exams on them.
    Now for far too long, doctors could argue they felt the exam was important (their personal view), they were thorough…they were told to do the exam in medical school in 1980 or they recommended it and the woman consented…these excuses don’t wash, the Board should make clear routine breast and pelvic exams should not be carried out…they may constitute an assault…and that might mean prison, not a refresher course!

    • Omg, those comments! I’m sure all of them from medical students and doctors, all whining about the ways the world will end and the sky will come crashing down on us all if they are no longer allowed to finger their patients at will, and how there is no need for any.oversight because things are already perfect as it is. Woe to all the poor patients who will surely die in debt because exploring medico fingers are the only possible way to truly and accurately diagnose anything! (Speaking of God complexes…). (Also speaking of perverts who clearly only got into medicine to practice perversion without consequence…)

      I’m reminded of all the articles that are now admitting that fingering of all sorts is becoming totally unnecessary because so many advancements have been made technologically that a blood test can diagnose more than a good medical fingering now, but that getting personally fingered is still.a good and important part that no one should dispense with because it “creates an emotional bond” between doctor and patient that is totally every bit as necessary as any silly old “medical utility”. Sure, none of us look forward to a Star Trek future where a doctor can just run a simple scan and never had to touch us much less strip us to diagnose or treat, nope, we’d all be so miserable if we couldn’t look.forward to the humiliating nudity and touching and verbal.abuse/threats of we refuse any of it, and the long anxiety-filled wait on a cold table beforehand, as well as the long cry in the car afterward…we all just live for that experience,and these Gods Among Men know it, bless them!

      Yeah, rapists often have an emotional.bond with their victims too, the kind that is delightful for them.but a living nightmare for the victim, the same often happens between doctors and patients wth patients avoiding all medical care even when symptomatic be sure of that ok let emotional bond with the medical establishment. But hey, even negative emotional bonds are emotional.bonds, right? Gotta have that emotional bond that can only come by forced unnecessary touching, that’s the only truly important part of medical care!

      • Demonhype, Oh, to be sure! The cries in the car afterward are never even considered. And, if they are, they have meds to treat that too, you know. It keeps people coming back, because although those are not addictive, they do have “discontinuation syndromes”, so your refusing to be fingered can well include the abrupt discontinuation of those – which appears to be associated with everything from suicide to mass shootings.

        100 years ago, they intruded themselves into the honeymoon bed by legally requiring a “premarital exam”, at least of women/brides, which included a good fingering to be sure that she would get aroused or orgasm. If the woman later became “hysterical” that too was treated by treatments that included fingering or object penetrations to get her to have orgasms, so the emotional bond between doctor and patient was and continues to be very important.

        In our enlightened late 20th century, men also were not exempt from this. Gone are the days of gender inequality! Instead they get fingered supposedly to feel their prostates – and they too have good cries in the car. I’ve seen that with male partners.

        Nevermind that the “bimanual exam” has shown itself to be totally useless, as well as the prostate exam. By the time one can feel ovarian cancer, cancer of the uterine corpus, or prostate cancer, it is large enough that it has metastasized and is difficult to treat, and deadly. In just a bit longer, it will have likely spread enough that it causes symptoms, but from people being fingered and pressured for more fingering, they will be unlikely to seek medical attention, or they will be pressured into more penetration before the problem will be addressed – such as a colonoscopy.

        One could always allow the fingerings and penetrations. Mental dissociation is a good way to allow that: See the cutsie signs above examination tables on the ceiling. In that case, they find it earlier, but one may be offered treatment which does not work to solve the cancer, a host of even more invasive examinations and surgeries. The person gets to live more of their life as a cancer patient – even if they never did have cancer. That’s good too: They can be spokespeople to say this all “saves lives”.

        Meanwhile, life expectancy is going down for women. It has gotten to the point that women in some areas and demographics of the US are now dying on average of 7 years earlier than our mothers did, with more chronic health conditions. https://www.womenadvancenc.org/2015/06/19/north-carolina-women-are-dying-young/ or https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236640759_Disparities_in_Women%27s_Health_Across_a_Generation_A_Mother-Daughter_Comparison

        The #1 cause of death in women is heart disease, the same as it is for men. But, that is NOT what is stressed to women. Instead, we are over-sold on a rare cancer that effects our “girlie bits”. Even if we do show up at an emergency room having a heart attack, we get treated less aggressively. Even if we show up at a doctor with classic signs of heart conditions, we are less likely to be taken seriously. Cardiosmart is a website of the American College of Cardiology. One of their suggestions to women is, “Talk to your doctor” (about risks and such). If a woman tries this, it will be back to the pelvic exam discussion! So, she is less likely to be able to talk to her doctor. Moreover, one of the risks for cardio problems or worsening them is treatment for breast cancer.

        On the 3rd page of the Cardiosmart, of risk factors, it mentions “Broken heart syndrome, also called Takotsubo Syndrome or stress cardiomyopathy: Despite the name, it can occur with good or bad emotional excitement.” Gee, do you think that pressuring women into exams every year or so that is rape by coercion could lead to this? It is known that the less outright violent and “gentler” rapes cause more long-term issues than the violent ones. This is because victims blame themselves more.


  10. https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/03/07/ensuring-the-accuracy-of-screening-information/
    Ensuring the accuracy of screening information!
    “Obviously there are many sources of health information outside of the NHS and government. For instance, there are commercial websites and smartphone apps which many people use, as well as COMMUNITY FORUMS.
    We do not have the capacity or remit to check these and do not have any control over them. Many of these information sources contain useful and up to date information about screening but we cannot guarantee that. And we have seen examples where information is out of date, inaccurate, insensitive or unhelpful”
    So if you spot a problem with the screening information and advice in any of these sources, feel free to tell us about it by contacting the helpdesk. We’ll look at it and contact the provider of the information if we think it is dangerously wrong or misleading. But we cannot guarantee that our suggestions will be followed.

    So basically we had better watch out with our forum here and any others that may damage the programmes!

  11. Bring it on!
    We have a real reference section…
    I’d like to see them back up a lot of the rubbish they’ve fed to women over the years with solid medical references…can’t happen, it’s a mix of hype and misinformation. Interesting, when the UK breast screening program came up with the slogan…1 in 8 or 9 women will get breast cancer…they failed to mention that the risk rises with age…it’s certainly not the case that 25 year old women carry that sort of risk. In fact, I think the statement included women in their 80s.
    So a highly misleading statement.
    I believe it was done quite deliberately to exaggerate the risk and scare women.

    The same number was produced here..it was finally challenged…and their pathetic excuse, “that was the figure used elsewhere, so we didn’t change it, we didn’t want to confuse women”…
    (Or words to that effect)
    As if…the aim was quite clearly to scare and mislead women so we’d all rush in for screening and greatly fear breast cancer.
    That’s why I think many women are afraid of pretend cervical and breast cancer…the diseases they fear, don’t actually exist…rampant cc and breast cancer striking down 1 in 8 or 9.

    Would women fear these cancers as much without the scare campaigns and misleading statements?
    Breast cancer is a concern but for many women it totally overshadows every other health risk…including heart disease.

    The fact is we’re FAR more likely to die from heart disease but until recently, we heard very little about it…the focus has always been our breasts and reproductive organs.
    I wonder why…

  12. https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/03/08/screening-year-report-showcases-our-work-to-reduce-inequalities/
    Today we have published our report that celebrates the work of the NHS screening programmes in England during 2017 to 2018 (1 April 2017 to 31 March 2018).
    During those 12 months, we screened:
    •3.2 million women for cervical abnormalities
    •2.6 million people for bowel cancer
    •2.2 million people for diabetic eye disease
    •2.1 million women for breast cancer
    •660,000 pregnant women for infectious diseases and to identify if their unborn baby has a major physical or genetic condition
    •more than 640,000 babies for 15 conditions, including sickle cell disease and cystic fibrosis

    How much has this cost the NHS I wonder?

  13. One has to wonder why they don’t record the opt outs considering they are so hysterical we MUST test…I asked that q on the blog…it’s waiting for moderation lol

  14. Also, how many women provided informed consent for the test? Any numbers on that category?
    No?….(crickets chirping…)
    We know many women were coerced into testing, they should be taken out, they clearly didn’t give consent, they were forced to test.
    Women ambushed in the consult room by an aggressive GP or nurse, take them out too.
    Women misled into testing, believing cc was rampant and a serious threat, take them out..
    Women led to believe the test was mandatory – take them out
    Those who gave in after years of harassment by home visits, phone and/or letters – out

    Conclusion: I don’t think many women provided informed consent for testing, many did not consent at all.
    Initially, most women rejected the test, that should have been the end of it, instead the program and medical profession put their heads together to find ways to force women into testing, forget proper ethical standards, forget the law, forget human rights, just force women into testing.
    That’s not screening…

  15. It’s totally vile. It rips women apart for not screening. To be embarrassed or worried about smell is making excuses. It also lashes out at those of us who don’t have mammograms or check their breasts regularly. We’re blasé about our health

    • Blasé in this case means we’re not listening to them anymore, we know what’s going on…they hate that, the gravy train has run off the rails. They can say or do whatever they like, they won’t get back the women who’ve walked away from these programs. Too many women are now informed or have walked away for various reasons, often trauma associated with screening or over-treatment. Scare campaigns, scolding, fudged stats…it all just rolls off our backs.

  16. Dr Max is worried how complacent we are and says womens medicine is a victim of its own SUCCESS? ???

  17. I know many of you hear are not from the US . I just remembered back int the early 2000s my friends that were on birth control all said they were forced to have Pap smears before they got on the pill. Some of these were young girls like 13 14 year olds and virgins getting Pap smears. Looking back at it now what the hell were theses doctors doing. I didn’t know back the what I know now. Just that something seemed wrong . I’m so glad I was raised by my grandmother who was old fashion. Back in her day girls didn’t go for gym exams unless they were pregnant. All this well woman crap shaved at woman wasn’t pushed like it is today. Im 34 now and have lived without all these exams so I don’t feel worried about not having them. I only see it as someone elders aginda and violating. I really think Americans recent generations have been grooming young to make woman think the only reason they are healthy is because of these exams and desinsitze them to the invasive ness. Now mother’s are scared the daughter is sleeping around needs to tested and put on the pill. They even don’t want mothers trusting there daughters any more. It’s brainwashing hear. It makes me madd that other countries don’t screen woman till later in life and don’t tie the pill to birth control. Why are woman so trusting? Idk. Why hasn’t someone hear explaned that the pill has nothing to do with bc why are woman left in the dark. It ticks me off so bad.

    • When I first got on birth control, a bimanual pelvic and pap were required at Planned Parenthood in the early 80s. I have to say that the nurse who did it was wonderful, and had me look too, and was teaching me about my own body. It was still not in any way related to the pill, but I was led to believe that it was – that CC was rampant, that the pill would make it worse if I had it, and yadda-dadda. I now know that my risk was HIGH for false positives I got in my 20s – and I had a LOT of them, including one doctor who insisted on doing them weekly (!!!) when I had a vaginal infection – a yeast infection he was treating (???) with antibiotics! No, he just wanted to get into a young woman’s vagina every week, and keep her new husband out of it.

      • My cousins yeast infection was found through a urinalysis. She went to a walk-in clinic. Of course had she gone to a gyno or other doctors they whould want to do an exam and when my grandmother presented to a gynecologist for a yeast infection. He did a Pap smear on her . Never mind she did not have a cervix anymore. He had to have known that . I guess it’s a Pap everything mentality. I just have to laugh at these hungry doctors.

  18. Just read the Mayo Clinic hear in the US is saying that “Virgins can still concider Pap smears.” “Low chance but still consider”. lol my God they are thersty.

  19. Kleigh it was the same here in the UK in the 1980s. I remember being in a house share where the 2 other girls were on the Pill and I remember they got the letters to attend for smears if they didn’t no Pill. They joked u was the good girl bcoz I didn’t take the Pill!!

  20. By that time I’d come off it as it had triggered the migraine headaches I still get today. Of course doctors deny this link…

  21. Katrehman, I agree I also feel like Doctors use birth control to control woman. All this is so sexist. And still no push for a mans birth control. Men whoulnt put up with the side effects and invasive exams. But it’s okay to do that to woman. I never wanted to use hormones. Ever since I can remember all I saw was the girls on the pill complaining they gained weight or got depressed. Some even ended up pregnant. I don’t trust the pill and hate how it’s pushed on woman.

    • I agree with you Kleigh. I have never taken the pill nor would I, nor have I ever had any smear tests or pelvic exams. I just feel that it is all used to control women and to give men power over women’s bodies and sexuality.

      It used to be said that women ‘must’ report for a smear test by age 21 or when they started having sex, which ever came first. I felt that statement was just vile – it was like having to report your sexual activity to a doctor and who knows where it might be recorded. Many women were having pelvics and smear tests before they were married as they went for the pill before their wedding night. It was like their sexuality was being monitored.

      Obviously many women choose to take the pill and that is up to them, but it’s wrong to tie it to the pap smear. It was like the medical establishment struck gold when they manufactured that link. They’d never have got as many women in for smears and pelvics without it.

    • Did you read that “Screening saved my life” story at the bottom? Although they don’t recommend the test for under-25 women, she says she wished she’d have accepted the first one when she was 21, as she’s now got cancer and all of that stuff. She might have had a false sense of security, and not gone to the doctor when she began having symptoms.

  22. Actually know what?? I do love my cervix. That’s why I keep it away from THE NHS and it’s “invitations “!

  23. I had the bad luck to see the new cervical screening tv advert last night and it so annoyed me. Thanking ppl 4 reminding them to book their smear implies as women we’re so daft we NEED to be reminded….of course we’ll forget to otherwise

    • Guessing that TV Ad was the one with the dog holding the letter? Made me furious too! Whatever kind of emotional blackmail they can come up with to use, outrageous!

    • It is absolutely sickening. I was livid when I saw it – it is so patronising. These campaigns act as though it’s just like popping along to the dentist or beautician, when in fact it’s a grotesquely invasive and, to me, completely unacceptable test. They must be getting to the desperation stage as the numbers are falling – now they are intruding into our homes with these dreadful adverts.

  24. More from daily fail. 19 year old diagnosed with CC vows to be maid of honour at sisters wedding after postponing chemo to five birth to her son

  25. Another (Groundhog ) day another hysterical rant in Daily fail Cervical screening is in MELTDOWN after women are forced to wait WEEKS for results due to lab closures….

  26. According to the DM there has been a surge in demand for smears since January and the introduction of these schemes to increase uptake

  27. My comment that typically this cancer takes years to develop so the death rate will hardly rocket has 38 dislikes and a reply of you idiot…..Oh well..

    • Don’t feel bad kat…i got downvoted on Yahoo answers for telling a girl in a monogamous virgin relationship that a pap might not benefit her since it’s nearly impossible for her to have hpv and it rarely detects non-hpv cancers. Apparently telling someone it’s her own decision and she can take some time to do her own research is an awful suggestion…shame on me! (Eyeroll)

      • Yes, I get attacked on Twitter daily for daring to mention cervical cancer is rare. Such a bad person! When I come armed with stats, they get even nastier and start going on about my ‘anti-smear agenda.’

        I’m not only blocked by Rebekah ‘Chav Queen’ Vardy but also Dr Philippa Kay now too. Must be doing something right 🙂

    • I can’t stand what the Daily Fail and the other tabloids print, it is stirring up hatred all the time with them. It makes me depressed to read what so many of these women say, how they only go because it “runs in their family”. No dear, you go because you’re too thick to understand why and need a stupid reason. Then you get all that nonsense about how they’re bossing women into going because they really care for those women who don’t go and they want to save their lives. They don’t seem to be concerned at all about all the young people who die of other causes in any way.
      I’ve recently seen a conversation on twitter between 2 women whose cervices could not be found after doctor fiddled for half an hour, and both had to be eventually referred to hospital to have smears taken there. What must the cost of all this be? In such cases an HPV self test could have found both to be negative and need no hospital referrals at all. What an absolute waste of NHS money this whole business is.

      • HPV testing was used as a test of cure until recently here, all the procedures that could have been avoided if these women had been tested for HPV first.
        Such invasive and distressing procedures too…
        The program and medical profession chose to over-treat, enjoying the profits…and wasted millions in the process.
        Medicare costs a fortune and is also short of funds, yet they waste millions and call it good medical care, it’s a sick joke

    • I noticed all those down votes you got, still all as clueless as usual. Loving your comments, all I can say is they are all idiots LOL

      • It’s weird as I commented there the other day and I got a ton of down votes but then previous times I’d get a lot upvotes.

        I’ve noticed a few people around recently on the Daily Fail and social media who look and behave like paid shills/trolls. Could it be they’ve enlisted people to push their pro-screening messages?

      • Carolyn,

        Either paid shills/trolls, or paid bots to be scouring such things.

        I have to wonder who is behind this pro-pap crap stuff, throughout various countries around the world, with various sorts of governments and healthcare payment systems. The trick is usually “follow the money”, but that’s not really working this time. Yes, there is the free access to women’s vaginas for the male clinicians, and the power-rape trip when she can’t say no, but I don’t think that’s enough to explain this.

  28. Thank u Chas. .. you make good points too. As for the down votes well….the truth hurts the pro screeners lol….

  29. Daily Fail have a story just now about a poor lady who had died from CC, apparently after “missing” a smear test. The comments are the usual – “get your smears, they are lifesavers”. When oh when will people realise that a mass screening programme for a rare illness is bonkers and overall does more harm than good?

    It is made the woman’s fault if she gets CC – either for not screening, not screening regularly enough, or “missing” an appointment. I wouldn’t be surprised if some screeners who do develop CC are given it from the poking and prodding done to them over the years. Maybe all that scraping of the cervix aggravates the area and exposes it to the HPV virus, or maybe the act of inserting the speculum forces the virus up further into the cervix. Or maybe some people will develop it regardless and it is just sadly unfortunate.

    • They don’t get it that “missing” an appointment, and being maybe 1 month overdue, is NOT going to suddenly make our cervixes blow up and kill us by suddenly showing up with stage 4 CC!

      Some of our loved ones have been roped into the emotional manipulation that we’re going to certainly die if we don’t have these tests, absolutely on schedule.

      I ran into an interesting hypothesis (no study) about why the CC rate has gone down since the 1950s. The typical one pushed is Pap, but a more reasonable one is hygiene and diet. The hypothesis is that pap testing, involving a brush on the cervix that creates irritation, especially if there are HPV viruses around, are pushed in there, the resulting inflammation causes a “localized immune response”, effectively innoculating us against the HPV virus. I guess that all explains the study in the 1980s of doctor’s offices having many pathogens on the fomates (doorknobs, glove boxes, tables, lube, etc), or all offices not sterilizing the speculum after each use. (heavy sigh)

    • The reason they changed from the metal speculums to the disposable plastic ones was because the small GP surgeries did not have adequate sterilising facilities and the germs from the one speculum were being transferred from woman to woman. I found a couple of articles on this that may be in the references section on this website. The HPV can survive being washed with water so stayed on the speculum and was put inside the next woman. I once tried to find out what happens to the millions of single use speculums which go in the bin every year – another huge waste from this programme, but couldn’t get an answer from anyone, as it was always “not our responsibility”. I did read once on a nursing website that the bin that the used speculums were put in really stank.

    • Just some cmments of the previous posts. At some points in time it was determined that HPV, a virus caused changes that were detected in pap tests and very rarely porgressed to cancer. It was also determined that HPV infections were likely transmitted sexually and even sometimes by other means.

      It was never really made sense to me that after being explained that the HPV virus was transmitted during sexually activity because small tears in the skin would allow entry for the virus. So why would the pap test for actually used a tool to scrap the cervix and spread around the virus and infection more areas and then shove a small brush up,the cervical canal which is only one layer cell thick and more vulnerable? I picture this peanut butter being spread around a bagel.

      There is also the issue of the cleanliness of doctor’s offices certainly dental offices have a higher standard. Metal speculums were commonly used and often only given a high level disinfection (soaking in bleach water) not sterilized. There is a question that metal speculums and other tools for biopsy are used for colposcopy and often are NOT sterilized between each use only disinfected. Plastic disposable speculum are not sterile. They are often wet in the same sinks where doctors wash their hands and throw used speculum or tools. Some clinics will put the speculum in a jar of sterile water which is a better practice.

      Why was the urine test for hpv never promoted by the medical industry?

      • Indeed, the pap test appears to be designed to introduce pathogens under the skin and into the blood stream. The speculums can themselves have HPV or other pathogens on them, can cut or scrape the skin while inserted, and can also be a source of infection.

        The notion that the vagina is not a sterile place (true), and thus does not require sterile technique (also true) makes it a-okay to not bother to worry about what pathogens someone introduces. While my vagina is not sterile, it is not infected with gonorrhea, herpes, chlamydia, and everything else the previous patients in the clinic might have had.

  30. Regarding the plastic speculums……we only have their word (which doesn’t mean much to me) that they are disposable / thrown away, how do we really know that? It is possible that they are recycled in some way, or more or less just washed and re-packaged? I have no trust whatsoever! If you do have HPV then yes I believe the cyto brush will push it further up the canal causing the spread. Nothing relating to this procedure is sterile, not us, not them, not the room, not the sinks, they run the speculum under the tap & the water is not sterile. Also from my experience before they enter the speculum they would touch my inner thigh first (not sterile of course) & their explanation for this is to avoid the shock when using it…………..really what an utterly stupid reason!
    The whole process is gross. I am so thankful I no longer attend these tests – all thanks to you guys and this site x
    I had a visit at the GP surgery last week and as my hand was on the door handle to leave, I got the mention of Cervical screening………..Oh my I just laughed at him, he knows how I feel about it, what a twat.

    • Some time ago, I ran across a report that a lot of single-use medical devices are re-used. I know during a medical emergency, resulting in an emergency surgery, that they first suggested I be catheterized by a nurse holding an unwrapped catheter in one (ungloved) hand, the tubing and bag in another, and announced that she was going to catheterize me. H*LL NO! Not with that set of stuff! Later, after the ACA became law, and data was being collected in one place, it was discovered that more vaccinations were being given than there were syringes manufactured. This leaves out other injections given. This means that there is either a tremendous amount of fraud with the vaccinations reported, the manufacturers are for some reason grossly under-reporting how many syringes they manufacture (unlikely, as this is part of their profit, which attracts investors), OR THEY ARE BEING WIDELY REUSED. We already know this is being done widely in third-world countries where they cannot afford or cannot get delivery of these medical items, but in the US – REALLY! Later, there have been a number of reports at colonoscopy clinics throughout the US and Canada of clinics who have been using some of their single-use parts for YEARS.

      This certainly puts a wide opportunity for cross infection among patients.

      Meanwhile, we are told to be responsible with our sexual activity – pointing out that if you have unprotected sex with someone, you are exposing yourself to the diseases that every one of their past sexual partners had, as well as the diseases that all of their past sexual partners had. At the same time, you are sexually exposing yourself in the doctor’s office to everything their last however-many patients they had since these things were sterilized, plus everyone who touched the counters, doorknobs, tables, etc. Wow! And, considering that unwell people appear in doctors offices more than well people, it’s likely they had one or more of these infections.

  31. https://www.nursingtimes.net/the-use-of-vaginal-specula-in-improving-infection-control/201331.article
    A local audit undertaken in several GP practices found that many were failing to follow current national guidelines on the decontamination of minor and general surgical instruments and other equipment, including vaginal specula. This included both the reuse of instruments designed for single use only and inadequate decontamination of reusable items.

    Okay I know this was 2006 but you never know, it could still be happening?

    • It’s one of the reasons we try and keep our mother out of hospitals, day procedure etc. they pick up infections. Mum is 87 in July, she loves life and embraces every day, she sees a lot of doctors but no screening (apart from blood tests) I think she’s happier and healthier as a result of the decision to ditch screening. I suspect Mum had a least 2 surgeries thanks to screening and on both occasions she lost something that could quite happily have stayed put…and the dementia was probably caused by a small stroke that occurred during a screening colonoscopy.
      We don’t want her time spent in waiting rooms (except at a day spa!) or recovering from a procedure or surgery. We really have to protect ourselves and our elderly parents from medical interference, it’s so damaging – it can take our lives or health and quality of life and cause us a lot of worry and pain.

      • Hi Eliz. I used to use canestan which is very effective. The tablet and the cream. However I haven’t worked in ages so had to look at a cheaper alt. I’ve found that pure coconut cream is just as effective. Hope that helps.

      • Hi Eliz
        Its terrible that your sister picked up this infection in a medical setting. It shouldn’t be happening. The tools they use cannot be sterilized properly between patients. Pathogens hide in the works somehow infecting person after person.

        Keep your mother away from hospitals. My mother in law picked something up before she died on her info it said CAI . they didn’t tell us what it meant. It means Community equired infection. Ie Hospital equired infection.

      • Linda,

        My FIL has been mostly in the hospital, except for a week 2 different times, for the past 6 months! He had a needed surgery for gangrene, when he caught C. Diff. He’s been mostly in the hospital for the past 6 months, sometimes in isolation, for this Hospital Acquired Infection (HAI), and nobody really expects him to get out of it alive.

        I shudder to think of the expense of this! He’s got great insurance plus Medicare (US), but the cost has to be in the millions.

    • Dr V used a metal speculum on me during my first smear. When he had finished he threw it in a sink with some other specs, where there was a bottle of washing up liquid next to them. I’ve always wondered if this is how he washed the device after each use.

      Until then I had never had thrush in my life, but afterwards I suffered from thrush on and off for years. I even passed it to my husband once. I totally believe Dr V passed thrush to me from this device which had probably been in loads of women he had conned into having smears. Washing the spec in washing up liquid is the reason. I still occasionally suffer from thrush to this day.

      It makes me wonder if doctors and nurses have been passing HPV on to women due to their unsanitary practices. The article seems to suggest this is possible.

      A post written a few weeks ago also suggests that they try to get away with using the same sheet of paper for several women at a time.

      Very worrying. I shudder to think of it all.

      • OMG yes I remember my first few were with a metal speculum and placing it in the sink, awful just awful! Basically they could have, and probably did cause many thousands of cervical cancers…..that helped them to form the programme…dam it!

      • I too got my first vaginal infection after I was having Paps in a doctor’s office – rather than Planned Parenthood. I’d never had one before. He did another speculum exam, including a Pap (this guy did Paps all the time, and charged for them!). He diagnosed me with BV, and gave me antibiotics. IT GOT WORSE. I ended up with a greenish smelly discharge. I went back – trichomonias, along with another pap. Another prescription. The greenish discharge went away, but I was still in pain. The BV was back. MOre antibiotics. And, of course yet another pap. This went on for months. I was in an HMO, and I asked for a referral to a gyn – NO. Eventually, I was whining to a friend about this, and she suggested I see her (woman) gyn. I did – at my own expense. Yeast. Not only that, a systemic case of it, no doubt from all of those antibiotics. She called him up and gave him a piece of her mind. It took a year of prescriptions and a candida diet (my current diabetes diet is far more lax on sugar) – everything not prohibited was mandatory. Meanwhile, I ended up with a cystitis that wouldn’t stop too – probably from ALL of those examinations. She tried a couple of times painting my cervix with gentian violet – a very old, very effective, and very messy procedure to treat fungus infections. It helped. What helped more was a visit to a feminist health center, sort of hippy-ish in its demeanor, who suggested that I make boric acid into suppositories by filling 000 capsules with the powder, and using them 4 times per day. 4 grams of vitamin C per day for the UTI. And, every day, put a turkey-baster full of plain active yogurt in my vagina. THIS WORKED! Now, I use the boric acid and/or yogurt when I think I might be getting a vaginal infection, a single 4 gram dose of vitamin C when I think I might be getting a UTI. I haven’t had either of these in over 30 years.

        Meanwhile, I came down with genital warts. My husband said he never had them. My previous SO was a virgin when we first had sex, and I’m positive he didn’t cheat. I was introduced to the “latency theory” – that I’d picked up the HPV from someone “Years ago”. Well, I was molested/raped as a child, so it seemed that was possible. Now…. NOPE. If pathogens could hang around latent, unaffected by the immune system, vaccines and inoculations could not work at all. More likely, I got the wart-causing HPV in a doctor’s office.

        It seems that seeking medical care is a good way to become sick, or pick up a new disease.

      • Linda
        A friend of mine had an endometrial biopsy last August and since then she’s had issues with thrush, she firmly believes it was picked up in day procedure. I’ve been doing some reading for her, but would appreciate your feedback.
        When it first appeared about a week after the procedure, the pharmacist gave her thrush cream, it was used for 6 days and that helped a lot, she was more comfortable.
        About 2 months later, it was back, same treatment, gone again…anyway, it’s been coming back ever since and she’s sick to death of it.

        I suspect she’s not treating herself for long enough, I read that over 50% of thrush infections reoccur and that you have to keep using the cream for about a month even when the symptoms have eased or gone. (in cases when the thrush keeps coming back)

        I know she’s now drinking probiotics every day, wearing cotton underwear and loose clothing…it’s really changed her quality of life, she was taking swimming lessons, that had to stop, the stinging was too much (she felt that might be aggravating it)
        Can you offer any remedies that help you?

        I’ve heard women complain about thrush but I’ve never had it, I’ve also never had a Pap test or any other sort of gyn procedure (fingers crossed it stays that way!) I wonder if that’s the reason I’ve been spared…
        I do wonder if all the poking around many women endure sets us up for thrush, UTIs, HPV etc.
        I’m a firm believer – if it’s not broken, leave it alone!
        (I’m sure she didn’t need the endometrial biopsy either)

      • Linda,
        Thanks for the recommendation of coconut oil as a natural treatment for thrush, there’s not much research in the area, some doctors say coconut oil can lead to infections but I read lots of comments from women who swear by coconut oil and tee tree oil (a tiny amount added to the oil, it can burn delicate areas) for bacterial infections and thrush.
        it makes sense, both have strong anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and anti-viral qualities, tea tree oil also has anti-inflammatory and analgesic properties too.
        Coconut oil is also soothing and offers a barrier to reduce stinging, discomfort etc.

        Anyway, we went looking for some and finally found 100% pure, organic, unrefined coconut oil (some thought we were after refined coconut oil for Thai cooking!) – it’s been used 2 days in a row now and I’m hearing good things.
        We were wondering though – do you just leave the oil to do it’s work or wipe/rinse it out after a few hours? Would about half a teaspoon an application be about the right mark?
        How long does it usually take to clear up the problem, whether that’s thrush or a bacterial infection?

        I read lots of accounts on line from women caught in a cycle of thrush to BI and back again, sometimes going on for years. One woman said she can only wear skirts these days, trousers are too uncomfortable and can make things worse.
        GPs usually give you antibiotics for a bacterial infection, but thet can cause thrush, even if you take probiotics at the same time, you can be unlucky.
        Honestly, sometimes the home/natural remedies are the best ones, I swear by the poultice – worked a treat with my infected finger – great for blind pimples and cysts too.(and splinters)

        I was reading that during menopause, when our hormones are fluctuating, and our skins changing, becoming thinner and more delicate, we can get male pattern acne, more cysts, pimples and bacterial infections. (and other things…)
        Handy to add tea tree oil and coconut oil to the arsenal…I’ve noticed a few tiny pimples on my jawline – I’ll have to look for a treatment, the normal cleansing doesn’t seem to be working, not a major problem though, easily covered with a bit of foundation or concealer.
        Linda, thanks for the advice…

      • I got into the yeast/BV/yeast/BV circle years ago, compounded by getting treatment-resistant variants of both. What I did, and have been doing since at the first sign of something (I don’t have to define it) is to mix tea tree oil, 10:1 with olive oil HEAVY on the oliive oil. Or, put in a turkey-baster full of active plain yogurt. Or, if I can get capsules of probiotics, put them in like suppositories. If the discharge is yellowish/bloody, douche with betadine, and do some combination of the other stuff.

        I get a breaking-out/open skin under my arms. I’m also allergic to aluminum salts they put in the commercial antipersperants. 😦 I thought I was making this stuff as a deodorant, but it worked really well. 2 parts coconut oil, 1 part olive oil, 1 part baking soda, “a fair amount” of tea tree oil (maybe about 1/10 of a part). Warm the oils until they melt – not much more than 40C or 105F. Add the baking soda and stir in. Stir in the tea tree oil. IMMEDIATELY pour into a glass jar with a tight lid. To use, just dip a little out with your finger, and put it on whatever you think needs deodorant or a bit of antifungal/antibacterial.

        It also seems to work on other assorted breaking out, from heat rash or the like.

      • Beth
        Would you use the olive oil and tea tree oil for thrush or bacterial infection? I understand it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, (unless a swab is examined) and is that 1 part tea tree oil to 10 parts olive oil, so 1 or 2 drops to say 2 tablespoons of oil. I know the tea tree oil can burn so I’ll pass it on but just wanted to check the dosage. How long does it usually take to clear the problem? She’s trying coconut oil and tea tree oil at the moment, be good to have a back up plan.

      • Using metric, 1 tablespoon is 14.1 grams (of something like flour). So, if you want to go 10:1, you’d need 1.4 grams. Since olive oil/coconut oil/tea tree oil are all oil, the same volume will be about the same weight. Or, about 1/5 teaspoon.

        I seldom resort to this for internal use. Only if it’s stubborn, and use it along with either boric acid or lactobacilus capsules or plain yogurt.

        What I do most often is to just use the plain yogurt or the lactobacilli in capsules.

        Another thing is to get some boric acid powder, along with some empty 000 capsules from the druggist. Put the boric acid in the empty capsules, and use them like suppositories. DO NOT USE ORALLY!

        Lactobacilli, coconut/olive/tea tree oil, yogurt or boric acid capsules (or all of those 🙂 )

        It starts clearing up in a couple of days. If it’s just starting, it should clear up then, so use it another couple of days. If you’ve had it awhile, and it’s got a firm hold, it might take longer. End with lactobacilli and/or yogurt, to restore the bacteria. Do any of these about twice a day. You can do more if it makes you feel better.

        Another one is to paint the vulva as well as the vagina including cervix with gentian violet. You can get that at a pharmacy. Use a swab. Put down old towels or papers where you’re doing it – it makes a mess and is nearly impossible to remove the stains. Wear pads and be prepared to stain any underwear you’re wearing. Wear old ones you’re about to throw away, or deep purple or black. That often clears it right up. I’ve used it on thrush on gums or toenails as often as twice a day.

        Vinegar douches for yeast, or betadine douches for bacteria are also good.

        Putting some slippery elm powder (maybe a teaspoon or so) in with the douche tends to cut down the pain and inflammation. I don’t think it helps clear it though. That’s something to get from an herb shop.

        I haven’t seen a doctor for vaginitis since 1987! One or some combination of these things helps – and start it before it gets to be a horrible problem!

      • Beth, that’s fabulous, thanks for all the information, can’t beat decades of personal experience.
        This group is amazing, just women helping women.

  32. At least we are all well out of it !!……it’s just getting through to the rest of them now lol…

  33. Oh my – now they are offering this, obviously to increase uptake:
    Dozens of childcare providers across the UK are offering to look after children for free to enable mothers to attend cervical screening appointments. Public Health England is currently spearheading a campaign to increase take-up rates of tests, said to be the lowest for about 20 years.

    And this particular one says about 3,000 women will be diagnosed with cervical cancer each year in the UK. Funny that, as I read recently it says 5,000, next week it might be 10,000 LOL! All the usual shite there too! The word “excuse” used several times!

  34. Daily telegraph today. Self test kits to b sent to women who don’t respond to “invitations ” for smears.
    Also mobile screening units for smears mammograms and bowel to be set up near shops workplaces ect.ppl should be able to book screening appointment so easily from their smartphone

    • Kat this is amazing news! I thought they would never do this but they are clearly so very desperate now. I’ve tried viewing the article and there is the usual rubbish that the reason is all down to embarrassment. Will have to keep an eye out for further news from another source. I did spot the news that Crapita has been stripped of their contract to run the summons service as they’ve cocked-up so much, it will now be brought back under NHS control.
      I don’t think you should worry about the idiots on the Daily Fail. Would just love to see their faces when the full UK HPV programme is rolled out later this year, and it dawns on them that all what we’ve been saying is true. I can’t wait.

  35. The only issue with self testing – it seems easier but women won’t be told where the test might lead, just that it’s simple and private. If the HPV test comes back positive, and I assume they’ll be offering HPV self testing and not the self-pap test – it comes back positive and you’ll be pursued for a smear – and you’ll probably be anxious about the HPV positive result.
    If the self test is offered to women under 30, lots will test HPV+and these women also produce lots of false positive pap tests. We’ve tossed our young women under the bus, HPV testing from 25, yet anyone can do basic research and find HPV testing should not happen before 30.

    Self testing can be a slippery slope onto the medical conveyer belt to over-investigation, continuing surveillance and over-treatment.
    We should be told the whole story.
    I know a few people who do the FOBT because they don’t like the idea of a colonoscopy, fair enough but if you get a positive FOBT, guess what? Colonoscopy! (or you wait and test again and that means a lot of worry for most people)
    It’s the same lack of information or misinformation that is always part of cancer screening – and it means we make decisions based on that, not on the evidence, on the whole picture.

    • Elizabeth so sorry I hit the wrong button and down voted u by mistake! I’ll wear my glasses in future I promise…x

  36. Daily fail today ladies article about women being sent self test kits of they don’t show 4 a smear…300+ comments already

    • Kat you did a fantastic job as usual with your comments. I didn’t make any myself being in the US and not under the NHS so wouldn’t carry much weight, but up arrowed your comments and replied to a few really outrageous ones including one by a poster named “Nixie” who called women who skip smears “idiots.” Some of these pro-screening zealots become abusive, I believe, to try and compensate for their lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills.

  37. Sorry to b a bore ladies but again daily fail today woman calling for annual smears after developing terminal CC in the 3 year interval between smears

  38. Also daily fail women thank jade goody for saving their lives after they were inspired to get smears after her death…I’m now going into hibernation til this is all over lol

    • What is it with the Daily Mail, sorry, Fail – why are they so obsessed with a rare cancer? Do they have some affiliation with Jo’s Trust or another lobby group?
      Seems weird to focus on a rare cancer, do they have heaps of articles on other rare cancers?

      • It seems to have a conservative readership with the comments following articles quite often containing a fair amount of women-bashing, blaming us for all of societies ills. Sadly, no doubt some of these comments are from other women. So what better way to keep us in our place then on our backs in stirrups?

  39. Elizabeth not really. The odd one on breast screening. I think they just want to whip up mistrust and hysteria. They’re very right wing in their politics

    • I am not sure that it’s (just) conservative politics behind this bikini medicine screening craze. There are many on the left who believe the hysteria too, and object to any sort of reduction in these screenings as an attack on “women’s health”, and take the objections as a misogynistic attempt to shorten women’s lives. They downplay the harms from screening, the overdiagnosis, the overtreatment, and the fact that some screenings increase the risk of whatever they are screening for.

      Meanwhile, this craze of screenings for minimal risks take away from actual healthcare, diagnosing and treating the actual problems the woman came in for, and failing to test for problems which are far more likely to kill or disable us.

  40. Again daily fail… re hash of yesterday’s self test article. Now Jos tosh and eve appeal are begging to get self test kits offered to increase uptake and keep them in business lol…

    • Jo’s Tosh will know that HPV is common and they are hoping that non-screeners will do this self test, get a positive HPV reading, then be frightened into going for the full pap test. It’s just another way to keep women on the gynaecological merry go round.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if non-screeners are “found” to have this infection at a 50% level, then the next time the other 50% will have it – this to force them into the pap through fear. I guess their thinking is that once you’ve had one smear, you will just carry on having them.

      I won’t be doing this self test – for the same reasons I won’t have any screenings. It’s all designed to control and frighten people and not about disease prevention.

    • It doesn’t seem to work at all well on my tablet, although I go on and mark up the right posts, but often it just stops and won’t accept any more. I’ve tried posting but doesn’t seem to work on my tablet.

    • Getting there LOL! Last post was about Jade Goody’s awful journey! I don’t believe she died from cc but probably from all the treatments and crap she had to endure!

    Speaking in front of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) this afternoon, NHS England chief executive Simon Stevens said he is not ‘satisfied’ with how the private company has run the cervical screening programme, and will begin the phased transition back in house in June.
    Last year, it was revealed that Capita failed to deliver over 47,000 cervical cancer screening letters to patients – an issue it knew about two months before informing NHS England.
    At the time, the BMA wrote to NHS England, calling for an end to Capita’s contract for GP back office services, with the GP Committee calling it ‘nothing short of shambolic’.
    During today’s session, focusing on adult health screening, Mr Stevens said following these issues the contract will be brought ‘back in house’.
    He said: ‘We have not been satisfied with the way in which [Capita] has been performing.’
    ‘Today I am announcing we are bringing the cervical screening service back in house to the NHS from Capita, beginning in June with a phased transition through the rest of the year,’ he added.
    BMA GP Committee executive team member Dr Krishna Kasaraneni said: ‘We have long been raising concerns about Capita’s frankly shambolic running of GP support services – and most notably called for their contract to be stripped when it was revealed at the end of last year that thousands of patients had not received vital information about cervical screening, potentially putting these them at risk.
    ‘It is only right that NHS England has followed through and removed this service from Capita, and now any transition process must be robust and not be done as a cost-cutting exercise at the expense of patient safety.
    ‘Furthermore, we know there are still fundamental ongoing issues with Capita’s delivery of other backroom functions including the transfer of patient records, pensions administration and payments to practices, and we demand that NHS England ultimately takes responsibility for all of these shortcomings, and brings these back in-house as well.’
    A Capita spokesperson said: ‘Returning administrative support of the cervical screening programme in England in-house is consistent with the approach in all other national screening programmes and will enable better integration across those programmes.
    ‘We support NHS England’s decision as part of its broader review of screening services, and we will work together to ensure a seamless transition.’
    In January, Public Health England announced a new campaign to urge more women to test for cervical cancer, after data revealed coverage has reached the lowest point in two decades, despite an increase in the number of eligible women being invited.

    • “Music said mothers have a role to play in raising awareness by talking to their daughters about screening. “It’s important to normalise screening and reduce stigma and misconceptions around it.
      Universities, schools, workplaces and businesses can all play a part in raising awareness of the test too.”

      I think this is a disgraceful statement, “normalising” screening, in other words, do it without thinking about it, forget about consent and informed consent…just do it, like you’re brushing your teeth. This was always the approach taken by the program, they didn’t want women to look at the evidence. (if they could find it, it was well hidden behind pay walls)

      The other approach, using mothers to get their daughters screened, again, completely unacceptable – screening should be a private decision, this is using manipulation and pressure to get women screened. Using mothers…making them feel it’s their responsibility to get their daughters screened, it will be their fault if they don’t and something happens…
      Again, they’ve alway used emotional blackmail…and have always pitched women against women.
      There’s a reason why they always resort to these approaches, the test should never have been introduced, many women find it unacceptable for all sorts of reasons and gone are the days when we can be led by the nose into screening.
      More women are saying NO and there’s not a damn thing they can do about it.

      It sounds like Mr Music has no respect for women, views them as objects to be manipulated..
      Why on earth would those comments be tolerated in 2019?
      What’s the real agenda at work here?

      Also, how dare they target the places we frequent…and don’t talk about awareness, we’re all drowning in awareness…it’s not awareness, it’s pressure, brain-washing, manipulation etc…
      Where’s the concern about awareness of other rare cancers?
      If someone went on in this way about renal cancer or thyroid cancer, we’d dismiss them as some sort of nut!

      • Elizabeth – I agree. What you have said about if people went on like this about other cancers, they would be treated like nutters.

        If I went to the doctor and said that I wished to be screened annually for say, Kidney Cancer, even though I had no risk factors for it, no family history of it, nor any symptoms pointing to it, I just wanted someone to have a look to make sure everything was okay in there, the doctor would think I was bonkers.

        They would say I needed therapy for an irrational fear of kidney cancer, they’d tell me that it was an uncommon illness and that annual screening would do more harm than good, and could pick up cysts or lesions in the kidney that were ultimately benign but could lead to surgery and even removal of a healthy organ. I’d be advised against it.

        Yet replace “kidney” with “cervical” and suddenly all women must have this vital screening, even though kidney cancer is much more common than cervical. However, if the female kidneys could only be accessed through the vagina, there’d be a queue of doctors insisting on screening them for cancer!

      • That’s right, Amy
        Once a screening test is introduced, it has to be promoted and protected, that’s why we should never introduce screening tests without independent randomised controlled trials.
        Cervical screening was not subject to RCTs (incredibly) and I believe the initial research that backed mammograms was flawed…and things have moved on, we now have better treatments for breast cancer.

    • What’s particularly strange is there is a blog post from 2015 on that horrific cervicalscreen1.wordpress.com site reviewing the self test option. The woman in question was sent and invitation to participate along with her smear invite.

      What happened to that pilot? That was 4 years ago and nothing. Either the NHS are extremely disorganised with pilots or some half truths are being told. Did vested interests try and bury it but attendance has declined so much they can’t any more?

  42. Elizabeth in the daily fail comments one woman said her daughter is just 10 years old and already this woman is telling her about smears and how important they are…can you imagine?

    • The damage caused by these programs is far reaching, brainwashing is bad, it leads to bad decisions, leaving women to think they were saved when that’s not the case or highly unlikely is highly unethical and plain cruel – it means the daughter, sister and niece get bad advice too and the cycle of abuse continues…
      I hate to hear of a mother starting the brainwashing for the program, doing their dirty work – it’s another way they use mothers and women – and to think, the mothers believe they’re doing the right thing…little do they know this advice can leave their daughter with lifelong issues – physical & psych/emotional.
      I think the programs hope that mothers will do the work and their daughters will just accept screening, they won’t go looking for evidence and expect to have a say in whether they screen, when they screen or by what method, just another good little lemming.

  43. On Facebook I keep getting an add that you can buy birth control online. I personally do not use birth control, but you should see all the angry emojis and dislikes this add has got. I read a few comments and one woman said “ this is how an epidemic of cervical cancer is going to start. Ladies get your paps no matter how embarrassed or uncomfortable they make you feel. Omg I can’t with this woman. I feel like there all so stupid and brainwashed. One even said if it wasn’t for paps her mom whould have died from cervical cancer. I’m really angry at the meadical comuinty for misleading. I’m glad there is an app for woman to get this without some doctors agenda . I’m getting these “woman’s health adds” and it’s Lot of false propaganda. It’s being pushed at my age group on Facebook. I’m so annoyed. It’s like they are trying to scare womAn about their bodies. I’m going to block these adds I’m so annoyed with it.

  44. I have been trying to find out more about possible self testing in the UK programme and it seems to be only the few pilots they were running in a few areas, and the media is giving the impression it will be an imminent nationwide thing. I am sure that they’ve been so reluctant to introduce self testing because they have no control over women in the consulting room when they attend for another reason, as is the case with other screening tests. They’ve always hijacked appointments, and many women led to believe they won’t get the problem they came for addressed without the smear test first, so most are bullied into having it that way. If a woman says she will get around to it at home when the test arrives, the medics know she may not bother, and repeat tests may be given out repeatedly at repeated appointments.
    Why they don’t send them in Australia, but make the woman do it there and then, or reason for appointment not dealt with. It is appalling to control women in this way, when other countries respect human rights and treat women as responsible adults.

    • I think one of the reasons – aside from fear of losing control of the herd – for the delays in self-testing is because the service is struggling to cope with things as they are, thanks to the incompetence of those in charge. They’ve stated they’ll consider self-testing once the programme’s fully implemented HPV primary testing, but they’ve made a royal mess of that and certainly wouldn’t be able to implement self-testing at the moment, even if they wanted to. Amazing how the Crapita cock-up made the papers, yet the current situation is far more of a scandal IMO and the media hasn’t noticed. Or perhaps they have and are just keeping quiet for fear of putting a dent in the wonderful ‘awareness’ campaigns.

    • There’s still tights controls here, you have to ask for a self HPV test from a GP, some may dissuade the woman from self-testing or claim it’s less reliable, and you have to use the test at the medical clinic, behind a curtain or in the toilet.
      You can’t buy the Delphi Screener online here anymore either, that’s to make it as hard as possible for women to manage their own testing.
      Not sure if they’ll start posting off self tests to unscreened or under-screened women, I haven’t heard that’s part of the program.
      I initially read that HPV self testing would only be offered to women who decline the invasive HPV test for 6 years, not sure if GPs are refusing to provide a self test to women who fall outside that time line.
      They know most women prefer self-testing but they’re only begrudgingly offering it to those they can’t reach any other way – the last thing they want is for women to assume they have a choice, they don’t want those who previously had regular screening choosing to move to self testing. It’s not about comfort or making the test easier for women, it’s about extending the reach of the program.

      • I believe that the women that take advantage of the self test will “need” further investigation by a colposcopy. I’m sure the program won’t give up their ownership of a women’s cervix without a fight. They have to have a reason to get women into the stirrups to keep the funding going. The last thing the invested interests need is a successful outcome with the self test. They want to make sure there is doubt about the procedure to undermine the so called choice in screening that is being offered.

      • It’s made clear that hpv self testing is not freely available because I keep reading, “those women eligible for self testing”…
        Will be interesting to see how many women manage to self-test, and whether some of them were previously screened the invasive way? Will Medicare cover self tests of “non-eligible” women? Will the labs refuse to process the self swab?
        Not sure how this will be handled by most GPs…will they make women who are considered ineligible, wait for 4 or 6 years before they can use a self test?

  45. Mint, if the test is HPV+, I’m sure they’ll pressure the woman to have a Pap test then and there, I suspect that’s why the self HPV test has to be carried out at the clinic – they have you cornered. (and hopefully rattled by your HPV+ result)
    Also, the HPV- women will be in the system so they obviously hope to have corralled most of the unscreened and under screened women over a few years using the self test bait..
    This is not a concession to women, offering something more acceptable, it’s all about rounding up the hard-to-reach women.
    Of course, there’s no discussion about women actively declining to test – we know we all have to test or should test – don’t we? We’re all defaulters…
    The attitude promoted is that no reasonable woman would decline cervical screening…she must be misguided, damaged etc.

    • Thanks for the link, Chas. Until now, I thought the govt had refused to give a date when they would start vaccinating boys, but looks like they’re sneaking it in quietly without the media reporting it. Another interesting thing I’ve noticed about the HPV vaccine in the UK is that it is available to gay men up to the late 40s! I wonder why women are told that it is ineffective after first getting HPV that it has to be done in girls aged 12 but seems to be effective in middle aged men who’ve long since been active?

      • They’re also saying in the US that it’s no good whatsoever for women over age 25. Now, the UK is saying it’s good for men who have sex with men through their late 40s? Are males and females really that different?

      • https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hpv-human-papillomavirus-vaccine/

        Here’s the website and a leaflet to download, (scroll down to Men who have Sex with Men). It says men can get it now for free on NHS if aged 15-45. In the leaflet it says boys younger than 15 need only the 2 doses, but emphases those over 15 should have the 3 doses, but my daughter had to have 3 doses at age 12. Men could have been infected multiple times before reaching their 40s. I wonder why so imperative for girls to have it before sexual debut, but for men it’s OK to have it if they’ve been dogging for years.🤔

    • It would appear that all of my comments on the recent daily fail articles have gone! I was under the name CDNUK and can no longer see any of them, I must be banned from posting then? Just made a short comment on the 22 year old one, lets see if that shows up? Very disappointing!

  46. Chas I too tried to post on the 22 year old saying while my heart went out to her she needed diagnostic tests not a smear and that she probably had adenocarcinoma which the smear might not detect anyway no joy…

  47. Just checked the 22 year old article but no comments showing! Just typical, perhaps they are going through moderation first?

  48. Oh my days ladies daily fail today ….a blood urine or tampon swab test could replace the embarrassing hated smear test

  49. Yayyyy ladies I recognise Chas Kiwi and App Queen on the daily fail comments ! You’re awesome. The vomitable Katie is back in force again lol…

  50. LOL according to Be Well – Apparently I am carrying around a chip on my shoulder – Oh my word this is so funny, I’ve run out of my comments allowance of 20, but I can’t see 20 of mine there can any of you? They just stopped posting mine dam it! Oh well until the next one, soon no doubt! Well done to all you ladies posting, brilliant!

    • I’m jumping on now! I see the sensible comments are actually faring a little better on this one. I wonder if it depends on the moderator for the article as to what gets through?

    • https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/04/04/tackling-breast-and-cervical-screening-inequalities-in-merseyside/
      I just don’t know why they are bothering to report this. After high input from staff chasing women only half of CCGs could report an increase in uptake of 1-1.9%, and that’s just temporary while the events have been on. Most interventions were unmeasurable, and although women reported being influenced, we have no figures how many extra screenings actually took place.

      • St Helens is my area. I haven’t been contacted for breast or cervical. I have opted out of both but anything goes with these programmes. Looks like they’re going after imigrants and other vulnerable groups. I’d love it if someone phoned me. It would be a conversation and then some.

      • I’ve just left a comment saying the % increase in uptake is very small and did anyone measure the costs involved with the chasing and activities.

        It’ll be interesting to see if the comment gets let through. What a waste of resource for such a small increase in uptake.

        Flogging the proverbial dead horse.

      • Moreover, Carolyn, how many years of life did it add for this cost? Or, did it take away years of “healthy life”, making healthy people into cancer patients longer with little to no increase in length-of-life – making this (seemingly callous) metric of cost per year of added life NEGATIVE?

        The reality is that there has never been a randomized controlled trial of this. I wonder why…. (No I don’t)


    The new shot, known as Tipapkinogen Sovacivec, clears tissue already infected with HPV. About half of the severe lesions will progress to cancer within 30 years. (RUBBISH!!)
    ‘We have no way to determine which women with CIN 3 will progress to cancer and which women will not,’ Dr Harper said. ‘So we treat all women with CIN 2 or 3 as if they are likely to develop cancer.’ (YEP THANKS FOR THAT)
    The team studied 200 women who had moderate or severe lesions. 130 had vaccine & 70 placebo (ONLY 200 & 70 ONLY PLACEBO, NOT BALANCED IS IT)
    ‘There are very few products trying to cure women who already have an HPV infection,’ said Dr Harper. ‘It’s very exciting. This is the first time we’ve seen something with this success rate that is relatively easy to implement.’
    Treatment for these lesions usually involves removing a piece of the cervix, but complication include scarring and a shortened cervix, which could lead to problems when delivering a child. (YEP THANKS FOR THAT TOO)
    ‘The surgical procedure removes all the tissue that is headed towards cancer, but it doesn’t remove all the HPV. You’re not home-free. You still have HPV,’ said Dr Harper.


  52. Amy Schumer has a picture on her instagram showing her in a paper gown laying back on an exam table. The captain reads “ I adore being a girl.” This is the mentality of so many American woman. It’s unpleasant but you just have to because your a girl. It just irks me.

    • I hate these sort of images, but unfortunately it’s all too commonly promoted by those keen to grab anything that will put them into the celebrity limelight. There was a presenter here in the UK who had a test done “live”. I couldn’t watch it, but from the images on social media, she’d taken the trouble to ensure her enormous push-up bra was doing it’s job, and the sample taker was a young man in the typical stock photo image of a doctor. (Don’t you just hate those photos). All sample takers are practice nurses in the UK. You are unlikely to encounter a man until sent to hospital with “abnormalities” Hate it when this abuse is turned into a show for public consumption.

  53. Meanwhile in Australia: Medical Board wants to ban doctors who recommend natural remedies, complementary medicines, vitamins and integral approach to health. The excuse is “while some treatments may be beneficial, others may be unnecessary or expose patients to serious side effects”.

    What about the PAP-bullcrap, mammograms and other harmful screening tests?! Are they necessary?? Don’t they have serious side effects??? Not much hope that the greedy bureaucrats at Medical Board, obsessed with money, control and power, will ever ban this sanctioned rape and deliberate harm.

  54. Daily fail again today ladies. Experienced nurse and smear taker struck off for falsifying records not carrying out smears and not sending samples to he lab. Her actions “have put women at risk” yawn

    • I saw that, great excuse for them to make a lot of noise about “life saving” smears.

      What a bizarre thing for the nurse to do. I wonder what important tasks she actually failed at?

      • I read about the codes used for smear taking somewhere. There is a whole list of about 20 different codes that the nurse has to allocate to each woman. There is even a code for declining a smear test, and the nurse/GP has to allocate a code to every single woman every 3 years, so that’s why they keep pestering women, because they’ve got to enter a code on your medical record every 3 years or it triggers all sorts of demands. My guess is that the poor nurse probably mis-red the code list and allocated a wrong code in a few women, but then this is a world-leading screening programme, so she was probably taken outside and shot.

  55. https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/04/09/how-the-north-midlands-breast-screening-team-uses-facebook-to-increase-breast-screening-uptake/ MORE OF THIS RUBBISH!!
    the North Midlands Breast Screening Service:
    •linked with local GP practices that had active Facebook pages
    •promoted the service on local Facebook community groups popular with women over 50
    The team posts information aimed at encouraging women to spread the message about the benefits and importance of screening. The posts include women explaining the screening process and their personal experience of it, as well as videos showing the rooms where screening takes place.

    • Not one of the women involved in this project look in the 50 – 70 age range. Just what do they really know about it? They are all too young to be in the programme, yet here they are telling us middle aged ladies to go and get our breasts crushed and radiated. Same old offensive language:
      You are “empowered if you make an infomed choice to attend” when the evidence says otherwise and no mention of harms at all. Patronising Health England spewing the same old nonsense.

      • You are, indeed, “empowered” if you make an INFORMED choice to attend.

        Part of that information is that exposing the breast tissue to ionizing radiation increases the incidence of cancer. Of course, being informed that mammograms increase the lifetime exposure to ionizing radiation must be balanced against the other health needs of a particular woman so she can make an informed choice on whether to expose herself to ionizing radiation.

        Note that if the woman has symptoms of breast cancer, a mammogram can help with the diagnosis. It’s the same radiation, but diagnostic tests are given to symptomatic people – not well people. It can help direct further medical care.

      • The radiation factor is an important consideration, as is the possibility of a false positive leading to an unnecessary and invasive biopsy. In addition, there is the possibility of being diagnosed with DCIS, a “precancer’ that may never bother a woman during her lifetime, but once diagnosed via mammography, will likely be treated with radiation and tamoxifen, with their own significant risks and side effects. Radiologists and mammographers as well as primary care physicians seem to forget these inconvenient little facts in their hysterical coercion of women to get this screening, .

      • If I found a lump, I’d be cautious about the next step, it seems you’re routinely referred for a mammogram, but is it a good idea to squash a lump?
        I recall watching a video put together by lots of impressive people on mammograms and that was a comment made by one of the doctors, “not a good idea to crush a lump”…so I assume an ultrasound should be the next step and then, if nec, a biopsy.
        Not sure if I linked that video, I’ll check the reference part – if not, I will, it’s worth watching, they talk to a woman deemed high risk for breast cancer, she had so many mammograms starting at about 30 and ended up with sarcoma in the rib, just behind one of her breasts – excessive use of mammograms, which still happens in the States and elsewhere, can lead to cancers caused by the radiation. This poor woman didn’t die from breast cancer, she died from the sarcoma…in her 40s or 50s.

      • I’ve heard the dangers of squashing a lump – even the tiny ones that you cannot feel, but mammograms can detect – you know, the ones they claim mammograms “save lives” over.

        The poor woman who was high-risk for breast cancer, and they did a lot of mammograms – each with more ionizing radiation, and she died of sarcoma…. (Set Sarcasm HIGH) Well, those mammograms DID save her from dying of breast cancer! If she’d have lived to be in her 60s or 70s without them or the sarcoma, she MIGHT have died of breast cancer!

        Set Sarcasm OFF

        There IS no safe level of ionizing radiation! The amount you are exposed to is cumulative over a lifetime. In all cases, one must weigh that additional risk against the benefit of the exposure.

      • A documentary film…”The Promise”
        “The truth about the routine breast cancer screening programme. The biggest catastrophe in women’s health is taking place right now right before our eyes. Healthy women all over the world have been disfigured, disempowered and brainwashed into believing that their beautiful nurturing breasts have only one objective…to kill them”

        Sadly, I think you have to pay for access, (about $6 from memory) but it was released a while ago now so you might be able to find it somewhere on line without the pay wall.

        Yes, just found Part 1, it’s now on You Tube – Part 2 must be there somewhere.

      • The comments here about crushing a breast lump, I agree that has never sounded right to me. I also would be concerned about the fine needle biopsies, in case it draws cancer cells up through the breast tissue and spreads it. Surely crushing a lump and jabbing it with a needle can’t be right.

        Breast screening has never seemed like the right thing to do. I discussed this with a male GP and he claimed that it does save lives. I replied that men would never agree to have their testicles crushed between two glass plates. He didn’t have an answer for that!

    • I have had yet another summons for breast screening. This time, instead of attending the mobile unit, I have been invited to the breast cancer unit at my local hospital. I’ve never had breast screening. I’m not sure why I have been selected for this special treatment. Once again, I shall be ignoring the letter. The NHS can continue to squander their resources on invitations for appointments I don’t need and didn’t request.

      • Mint wow they really want your breasts! How many “invitations ” is that now? Wish I could b like u. I felt obliged to cancel my 1st summons so someone who actually wanted it could go and then I opted out as I wasn’t prepared to keep cancelling something I didn’t want or ask for..

    • OMG! Fox said that he took Al with him to hold his hand… but I didn’t see her there. Yeah, “3 months to allow the cells to recover”. They damage cells on every pap screening – which of course can lead to cancer or to the spread of cancer if they ARE there (albeit very unlikely)

      The usual pap crap about it “saving lives”. Just HOW does it save lives if someone has already made a firm decision to refuse colposopies, biopsies, hysterectomies, chemo and radiation therapy? Do they just record it for statistical purposes? How about the people who feel raped afterwards? Some people who are raped, 33% of women, contemplate suicide, while 13% attempt suicide (DG Kilpatrick, CN Edumuds, AK Seymour. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington, VA: National Victim Center and Medical University of South Carolina (1992). Accessed via RAINN.org on 4/10/19) I could not find statistics for men who are raped nor trans-men.

      The risks are pretty high. The benefits are nowhere to be seen unless one will consent to follow-on tests and treatments.

      For a trans-man, waiting in the women’s clinic for one of these follow-on tests or treatments would very much leave him open to harassment and ridicule. Again, what is the purpose?

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    by Nuria Martinez-Keel
    Published: Wed, February 27, 2019 1:05 AM Updated: Wed, February 27, 2019 1:30 AM
    In this June 30, 2016 photo provided by the Oklahoma County Sheriff’s Office, Dr. John A. Fuller is pictured in a booking photo. Rape and sexual battery charges have been dismissed against Fuller, who agreed to stop practicing medicine. Oklahoma County court records indicate the charges were dismissed Monday, Feb. 25, 2019 against 65-year-old Dr. John A. Fuller after he agreed to not practice medicine again. (Oklahoma County Sheriff’s Office via AP)
    In this June 30, 2016 photo provided by the Oklahoma County Sheriff’s Office, Dr. John A. Fuller is pictured in a booking photo. Rape and sexual battery charges have been dismissed against Fuller, who agreed to stop practicing medicine. Oklahoma County court records indicate the charges were dismissed Monday, Feb. 25, 2019 against 65-year-old Dr. John A. Fuller after he agreed to not practice medicine again. (Oklahoma County Sheriff’s Office via AP)

    An Oklahoma City gynecologist agreed to end his medical practice in exchange for having rape and sexual battery charges against him dropped.

    John A. Fuller, 65, retired his medical license and promised never to practice medicine again, according to court documents. His charges were dismissed Monday in Oklahoma County District Court.

    His attorney, Scott Adams, said Fuller hasn’t practiced medicine in five years. The doctor worked as a gynecologist and a pain management specialist.

    Fuller was charged in separate felony cases in 2014 and 2016 after female patients accused him of inappropriately touching them during examinations. Between the two cases, he faced a count of second-degree rape and three counts of sexual battery.

    Two women also filed civil lawsuits against him, claiming assault and battery.

    Juries in both civil cases ruled in favor of Fuller. The court ordered both women to pay more than $2,400 to cover his attorney fees.

    Adams said Fuller was prepared to stand trial Monday for his criminal case but decided to resign from medicine instead.

    “He’s to the point in his career where he’s wanting to move on and enjoy life,” Adams said. “He’s always professed his innocence. He still does. He didn’t do anything inappropriate and will stand by it until the day he dies.”

  57. Daily fail today ladies. Over half of women forced to delay or not get their smears bcoz they can’t get appointment. Mr Music claims screening saves 5000 lives a year. Usual comments from pro screeners

    • 5000 lives per year in the UK???? Gee, in the US, there are only just over 12,000 diagnoses of CC per year, and just over 4,000 deaths! Our population is a LOT higher than the UK’s! How are they claiming to save 5,000 lives when a bigger country only has 4,000 deaths?

      • Cancer Research UK states 2,000 lives saved yet I see quoted elsewhere “up to/estimated to save anything up to 5,000 – so I wonder exactly which is it 2,000 OR 5,000 who knows? Nobody really knows for sure, its only estimated (Guestimated) & estimates IMO are useless to the public!
        “Benefits of cervical screening
        Research shows that cervical screening prevents at least 2,000 cervical cancer deaths each year in the UK.”

        Nearly 5 million women in the UK, in 2016 only 854 deaths, which we need to remember that around a third of those deaths had false negatives when screened. I’m still happy to give all this crap a miss….for the 0.65% risk! Even if it was 50/50 I’d still not want screening.

      • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15262102

        Beth, here’s the reason for that ridiculous figure. About 2004 there were major concerns that this hugely costly programme of ours wasn’t having any effect. During the 1990’s there had been huge financial payouts in damages to women who had got the cancer in spite of negative screening results. The programme was fighting for survival amongst heavy criticism that it wasn’t cost effective. So what did the government do?
        Here’s my opinion. They paid researchers to write this paper saying that there would have been an epidemic of cervical cancer in the UK if the programme hadn’t prevented it. This enabled the government to by-pass data protection laws which said that citizens have a right to not have their personal identifying data used in mass mailings for call-up. The government created Section 251 which says that in the event of a national disease epidemic the government can collect citizens data and set up mass call-ups for disease control. So they are free to send endless mailings to us, when the law protects us otherwise. The government also set up a propaganda “shop window” to pacify worried women and dissipate any further complaints -Jo’s Trust.

        Note Peto claims that the UK would have had the highest rate of cervical cancer in the world without our programme. Really? Even above impoverished African countries????? Of course, if you read through past all these outrageous statements it also says that this is all wild speculation. It was this paper which set the 5,000 figure, and the NHS has stuck rigidly with this figure ever since. It has been on every website, newspaper and magazine, despite this paper being quietly dropped from NHS web pages lately. I’ve challenged it a number of times, so maybe they are feeling they could be up in court for false advertising. It really makes me mad that they can get away with this. I pointed out on one website that there are only about 2,500 cases of cervical cancer in the UK annually, and only about 800 deaths, mostly women over 65, and the reply just went on about the hundreds of thousands of abnormalities they treat every year, and implied they were curing them all of cancer. They tried to blind me with huge numbers to convince me they were saving thousands, and did not print my reply when I pointed out these only had a remote chance of becoming cancer.
        I will continue to challenge everywhere I see on this figure until it is removed for good.

      • I call it out too whenever I hear it. I’ve heard that the US is #1 in CC — and, REALLY??? Like you, does that include the poor countries of Africa, the war-torn nations of the world – especially where mass-rape has been used as a weapon of war for decades? Then, I’ve heard other nonsense like breast cancer or cervical cancer being the #1 cause of death for US women! No, they don’t hit the top 10. The #1 cause of death for women in the US is the same as it is for men – cardiac conditions. The #1 cause of cancer deaths for US women is the same as it is for men – lung cancer. Of course, it was different before we had all of these screening programs. What was the #1 cause of deaths for US women in 1900? Yes, again, the same as men – tuberculosis.

        I’m looking at who gains the most financially from all of this overtesting and overdiagnosing “female” cancers worldwide? It’s not just the lecherous interests of male doctors worldwide. It’s not just the money-making opportunities for physicians or hospitals. The makers of the test? Or, it’s got a lot of attributes of ritual as well. It’s sure as heck not science-based medicine! It provides a distraction from any science-based medicine.

      • I think they just lie or they fudge the statistics, also, using relative/absolute risk distortions to make something “sound” like a huge risk – but when you look at the real figures, well, you wouldn’t give the cancer, any rare cancer, a second thought.
        Yet they mandated regular vaginal exams for women, for most of their lives (and initially that also included a breast and pelvic exam) knowing it would lead to widespread over-treatment and help very few women. Rare is rare…
        The UK breast screening program came up with the figure that 1 in 8 women will get breast cancer – grossly misleading, the risk of breast cancer rises with age – you’re very unlucky to get it before 40 or 50.
        The Australian program picked up this number and ran with it, they were finally challenged and said the figure came from the UK, they decided to use that rather than confuse women, even though they knew it didn’t sound right!
        Even now the 1 in 8 terrifies many women, after one campaign we had 18 year old women going to their GP asking for a mammogram and leaving in tears when it was denied…Kylie Minogue did a lot of damage too, urging young women to get screened – unhelpful when CBEs are not recommended here at any age and the screening program starts at 50 (but I understand you can start screening in your 40s) (of course, Kylie’s advice was well meaning but it was still bad advice)
        The willingness to grab and run with any statistic that’s likely to scare women and help the program is disgraceful and of course, these people are rarely challenged in this country…so they get away with it…have done from the start.
        That’s the bit that really stings, that no one was prepared to challenge the lies and spin, you’ve got a few advocates in the UK, but really, until very recently, there’s been no challenge here at all – even now, not much is said about cervical screening – we’re seeing a bit more being said about breast screening. (about time!)
        So it means that the AMA, doctors and academics believe it’s best not to challenge these programs, IMO, they’re worried about their incomes and/or funding.

      • I read somewhere that it was UK Conservative politician Edwina Currie who came up with the 1 in 8 women will get breast cancer. Can’t find a link, but she was largely behind setting up the breast and cervical screening programmes in Mrs Thatcher’s government. She was a big promoter of HRT for women as well as screening, and wanted an advertisement which would fit on the side of a double decker bus, so without any evidence this became the campaign slogan to launch mammography screening, and the 1 in 8 stuck for good. There was no medical evidence at all. Edwina’s political career started to unfold, when she also announced that Britain’s eggs were full of salmonella, and caused a spectacular crash in Britain’s egg production lines as a result. She didn’t go down too well after that. John Major took over from Mrs Thatcher when she was ousted, and Edwina Currie, fired up on HRT no doubt, had an ongoing affair with him during his time as Prime Minister. Years later, when the Jimmy Saville scandal came out it was found that she was one of those who had turned a blind eye to Mr Savilles activities and given him full access to vulnerable people in the health care system.

      • Elizabeth – Indeed! They take the statistics, and conflate absolute risk with relative risk, and take that 1 in 8 number for breast cancer – and then spin it so as to SCARE young women in their teens or twenties that they could have a 1:8 risk for breast cancer, so they spend time examining their own breasts, finding lumps, making appointments with their doctors, getting more scared and stressed that they “probably have cancer”, get some more invasive and expensive tests, complete with ionizing radiation, then breathe a sigh of relief that they don’t have cancer. Then repeat. Nevermind that stress is a killer by itself, and the higher cortisol levels associated with all sorts of things from cardiac risks to cancer risks through medication for high blood pressure risks…

        Then, of course, she needs a pap for a very rare cancer – but one with unacceptably low specificity or sensitivity – leading to more invasive and dangerous testing and procedures… along with more stress, including or especially the stress from a coercive test, with implication of no care or treatment for other diseases, which is heightened for any survivor of previous rape, molestation, or medical abuse. Note that rape survivors have about a 16% chance of attempting suicide (source: RAINN.ORG) – now compare that with the 0.65% lifetime risk of cervical cancer. Considering that 1:3 women are survivors of rape or sexual abuse, that’s a LOT of people!

        If someone knows they would refuse the follow-on procedures or tests after having an abnormal result, what is the purpose of the test, other than populating a database? Moreover, many of the questions they ask, such as “How many partners have you had?” “At what age did you have first intercourse?” “What is your sexual orientation?” “Are you a victim of domestic violence?” “Has anyone forced you to have intercourse, with a weapon or drugs? etc has DATABASE written all over it! Why do I want to help them populate a database, in the US at MY expense and/or my insurance company’s, and at the expense of risks associated with the exam itself?

        In the US, 50 million pap smears are done in the US each year! (source: cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/13/3/355) A pap test kit costs around $12, but add in the cost of the appointment ($80), the cost of a pelvic exam ($75), and throw in a breast exam “just because” at about $35), these are about $200 each! Now, multiply that by 50 million, and we’re spending $10 BILLION per year to save around 8,000 lives (the difference between CC detected and CC deaths – those who died didn’t benefit from it anyway!), that is $1.2 million for EACH death prevented – just from the cost of the pap tests, not including the cost of all of the follow-on procedures. Or if we go with the screen 1000 women for 35 years to prevent 1 death, that’s about $7 million if there was annual testing, or $2.3 million for each death.

        This leaves out the “psychosocial” costs, or the fact that the pap crap acts as a distraction with people seeking medical care for actual conditions, and puts up barriers to care for symptomatic women.

        Now, if we forgo the pap crap in the US, ignoring the costs of the follow-on tests and procedures (which cost a LOT more! Estimating it at the same cost over 35 years as all of the pap tests), that would put an additional $20 BILLION into the US healthcare system – including freeing up the time and energy of all of the resources of clinicians, lab techs, and technicians for the other gadgets used in testing. If we put this money into research, or into medication or ensuring adequate nutrition for people to prevent diseases, it would seem that would get much more “bang for the buck”.

        I suspect that the amount spent in the UK is a bit lower, as the profit motive is more removed from the costs – but the equipment and supplies are still manufactured and sold for profit. Still, the percentage that could be put into the system to treat REAL conditions would probably be similar.

        For extra credit, we can do the same thing for mammograms, colon cancer screening, prostate screening, etc. There is no limit to the amount of medical overuse that can result from cancer screening!

      • Ada,
        “There was no medical evidence at all”
        Incredible that a politician can come up with a number, with no evidence, and it becomes set in stone – no one felt compelled to challenge the number, or perhaps, they did in the UK, but Currie had a louder voice and larger public profile.

        I watched a documentary about Saville recently, left me feeling sick, and so sad and angry for the devastation these sexual attacks caused to so many young women, teenagers and children. His victims were terribly vulnerable – he often targeted girls who were paralysed or unwell – a doctor even gave Saville the use of a room at a hospital so he was free to roam the wards at night – and some nurses told young girls to pretend to be asleep if Saville came into their room.
        It certainly sounded like a lot of people had suspicions but Saville was so powerful and raised so much money for various charities, everyone looked the other way. That’s typical of sexual predators, especially pedophiles, to put themselves in a place of power and trust…they groom the victims and others, they’re master manipulators.
        Such a shame Saville was never punished for his crimes – I still can’t believe he was considered an appropriate host of a music program aimed at teens, but of course, that’s the perfect place for a sexual predator.
        If there’s a hell, I’m sure he’s there…

    • I saw that Daily Fail article. It is ridiculous to say 5000 lives saved. How can anyone possibly know how many lives are saved? Did anyone compare deaths from CC before the screening programme was introduced with how many there are now? So was there like 6000 per year before and now 1000?

      It’s like a brainwashing mantra “smear tests save lives” and if it’s repeated often enough people will believe it. Well I don’t want my life saved in this manner, thanks very much. I don’t want a life of having regular vaginal exams. That is not a life as far as I am concerned.

      • I remember Edwina Currie boboasting about breast screening. Someone asked her about DCIS. She never heard of it

      • https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h867/rr-3

        See link here from BMJ 2015. One of the reasons the breast screening programme is in trouble is because Edwina Currie’s screening programme was “naïvely informed and politically motivated”. I have seen her quote that it was purely an exercise in getting women’s votes, and also a big chance for private healthcare. She is still giving talks now and trumpeting her screening achievements, saying the UK was first country in world to have both programmes running. Totally oblivious to the harm she has caused.

      • Kat,
        We had an older female politician who proudly declared in Parliament that she had annual Pap tests and that female doctors and nurses should always be available, she was congratulated for her bravery. taking on a difficult and personal topic. No one mentioned it was a very bad idea to have annual pap testing – and of course, this woman had no idea what she was talking about – she apparently had no concern for the major killer of women, heart disease.

  58. Omg ladies 2ce in one day. Daily fail. Women launch the no shrinking violet campaign sending violets to the health secretary and demanding better access and avail ability of smears

    • Kat, they just can’t accept that women just don’t want this test.
      I see that the “Women’s Equality Party” (ffs) is leading this campaign. For those not in the know, this is a fledgling feminist political party in the UK which campaigns for free sanitary products and endless misinformed screening (for women, of course) along with any other political issues which affect women. They’ve based their new campaign about shrinking violets, as they are really angry about all the endless smear test promotions calling women too embarrassed and shy to attend, and say that for a large number, the difficulty of getting an appointment due to cuts in services is the real reason. Loads of support from indignant women saying what big empowered girlies they are, but the poor dears have spent months ringing their GP surgeries trying to get an appointment without success. It’s odd that a lot of practice nurses frequently post online that less than half turn up to these appointments. Jo’s Tosh have supported this new campaign, but remember, it was Jo’s at the root of all this propaganda about women being too embarrassed to attend with their “research” which showed that women were too embarrassed to attend smears. Now they seem to be campaigning against their previous campaign.

      • They just don’t seem to get that this test is so invasive, uncomfortable and humiliating that even if it really was
        the major life saver they claim, and even if cervical cancer really was a major threat to women’s health as they represent, many women would still opt out. If it is as important as they say they should put their energies into coming up with a non-invasive test!

      • Moreover, “shy” and “embarrassed” is not even a small part of the issue.

        On top of the other reasons not to screen, the notion of having a man you just met fingering your girlie-parts, when consent is lacking or is outright refused, supplemented with coercion on not treating your other diagnosed health conditions is hardly “embarrassment” – any more than any woman who has her vagina and anus penetrated against their will by someone’s hands or an object is. Rape or sexual assault are hardly matters of “just being embarrassed”!

      • Exactly Beth. The matter of informed consent is always of paramont importance, especially since it’s generally lacking in woman’s health care.

      • They know women hate the test, for many it’s completely unacceptable, which should have meant the test was unsuitable for population screening, instead they continue to tell us how we should feel and what we must do…
        A non-invasive option is available but they’d rather lock that away and pressure women to submit. Attitudes haven’t really changed all that much In medicine, women are still viewed as public property – others can dictate what will happen to our bodies.

        The militancy around this testing – the over-the-top pressure – sent me to the Medical Library, it was a huge relief to find the cancer was rare and the test was unreliable, I was happy to pass. I knew that had to be the case or I would have been aware of women dying or being treated for cc…and that wasn’t the case, most women didn’t give cc a second thought, until they were brainwashed to see it as a huge threat.
        At the end of the day, I wasn’t having the test, but it was nice to know the risk of cc was tiny…I could live with that. Interesting all these years later, there’s still a reluctance to offer the test, it’s still mandated, “should”…”must”…it never sounded like an offer…because they didn’t want us to think we had a choice.
        In the UK we see the word “choice” in the brochures, but you can see the program really struggles with the notion of choice, they know a lot of women would choose not to screen without the pressure, and all the other dirty tricks. Nothing has really changed, I suppose it’s to appease the informed women, who are making more and more noise…make it “look” like they respect choice…yeah, sure!

  59. I’m watching local news. A local uni has developed an online tool to help men decide to do about a prostate cancer diagnosis. It agrees over treatment is horrible and maybe not necessary. It agrees men need time to think this through and they need balanced info..

  60. Bbc today ladies appalling smear letters don’t tell you to screen and are cold and don’t encourage you

    • I’ve just seen this BBC article. Apparently there will be a “No Fear Book a Smear” campaign to “encourage” women to book a test. It’s so patronising and honestly I am sick of hearing about this every single day. Hardly a day goes by when there is not an article in the mainstream media about smear testing. They also seem to have found every poor person diagnosed with this illness and put their story out there to make it seem more common than it is.

      The test itself is disgusting, the way it is promoted to women is disgusting and there is never a balanced view presented. It’s always “get the screening or die”.

    • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-47946395

      The letter is not as ‘cold’ and ‘appalling’ as they used to be.

      In the past, the letters that came led with ‘Your cervical screening is now due.’ It was written as if it were a summons and you had to book one.

      This is how I was ‘captured.’ I was carefully lead to believe smear tests were mandatory. This belief somehow pervaded all of society. It was all cleverly done. Government worked with the NHS to work out how best to ‘capture’ women into the programme. My doctor implied he wouldn’t give me the pill unless I submitted. A ruse. This is why I often talk of ‘rape.’ in my comments because this is how the programme was initially run. A programme of mass rape where women were given no choice to refuse a smear test.

      Many doctors did betrayed their female patients in this appalling manner.

      The women of this site through their constant campaigning have changed that dynamic and now the letter read that it is our ‘choice’ to have one.

      Young women do their research and quite probably come across this site and read the articles and comments before deciding for themselves.

      This is the way it should always have been – ‘our choice.’ Not the doctors or their ugly hearted nurses.

      The NHS took something from me. Despite being in a faithful monog marriage several nurses and doctors have now rooted about in my private place. For what exactly. Cervical cancer was and still is rare. This did something to my physce. It was like rape. It was rape.

      I’m glad young women are not so easily ‘captured’ into the programme as many of us here were all those years ago. I’m proud of their ability to reason and think for themselves.

      I think its only a matter of time before the letters are changed again and ‘choice’ is once again robbed from women.

      How sad.

      • I completely agree, it’s a bit better than the old summons but not by a great deal.

        I remember the old “your cervical screening is now due” invites. It wasn’t about choice, it was a summons pure and simple and this message of it being a summons was reinforced by doctors and nurses.

        Back then accessing the internet for research wasn’t the norm and it was framed as something women had to do to access medical care. Non attendance would be seen as a problem, like an unpaid bill that would end up in debt collection.

        Thankfully things have changed and we know better of course however I think there are plenty of us who feel hostility and resentment towards the NHS and doctors who duped up and bullied us back then.

        You’re absolutely right to use the word rape as that’s what it was. Using fear and coercion to penetrate someone.

    • Linda, that was the norm when I was a young woman, (I was 21 in 1979) women were refused the Pill unless they submitted to a Pap smear, pelvic and breast exam – if you said NO, then you left empty handed. That’s how far they were prepared to go…leave women with no reliable contraception, risking miscarriage, an unplanned pregnancy or abortion, not to mention the psycho-sexual issues.

      How many women managed without the Pill because they refused to go through all of that,…just for a script? I certainly wasn’t prepared to go through all of that, especially when I KNEW none of it was clinically necessary for the Pill. Even back then I struggled to find anything supportive of routine pelvic exams or CBE. (some suggested a CBE was a good idea in women over 40)
      Neither exam is recommended now for women of any age.

      The medical profession and the program were using that consult to force screening, in my opinion, that negates all consent. I firmly believe these women were assaulted…and it was okay with the AMA, RACGP, doctors, etc.

  61. Linda they might change the wording but the word is well out now about choice this test and self testing
    They won’t gain re control of the herd. Thanks to sue and all the women out there spreading the word

    • Hi Kat. Thank God for that. The younger ones are so savvy. The first thing they do is go on the internet and look into stuff. No going back to the bad old days.


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