Interesting comments found on “Unnecessary Pap Smears” from women who work at a colposcopy clinic:
• 495 – Colposcopy Clinic Employee
May 14, 2010 at 8:08 pm
The money generated in that search amounts to billions. The industry banks on women being compliant and totally ignorant on the subject of cancer and testing. Most of these women could take legal action if they were enlightened on the topic.
Its “read the pathetic brochure, now lie back while I remove some of your healthy cervix and then I’ll give you my bill”.
I guess if you can get away with it…but it saddens me that few people put compassion and the welfare of women ahead of profits.
I’m disillusioned, I don’t understand or approve of it. I don’t test and never will. It’s legal mutilation of women.
I’m looking for another job and hate being part of this abuse.
• 496 – Colposcopy Clinic Employee
May 14, 2010 at 8:54 pm
I forgot to say this testing plays into the hands of many male doctors.
They love having young and attractive women exposed and in humiliating positions, some girls sob from that before the pain even starts. I also think they love being in control and having power over these young women.
I heard two of our male doctors joking about one of them getting too many of the nice looking “ones”.
Our female doctor keeps to herself and doesn’t mix much with the male doctors.
Men are men and you’ll never change that.
We see lots of very young women in our clinic, all with false positives and the male doctors love that.
It makes me sick to my stomach.
If you have this test and get an abnormal pap, ask for a female doctor. Don’t believe the garbage that doctors are different, men are men and even when they are totally professional, they’re still looking at you, a male at an exposed female.
• 497 – Milly
May 15, 2010 at 5:16 am
I worked at a colposcopy clinic at a large teaching hospital.
I’d also recommend a female doctor.
I noticed all the young women coming in for assessment and remembered at training we were told women under 25 had a very low chance of getting cervical cancer. I think it was 1 or 2 in every million and that these cancers were usually missed by pap smears because they were normally adenocarcinomas. The pap is more for squamous cell carcinoma, but still unreliable.
I asked one of our doctors why we were seeing lots of young women and she said the test didn’t work in young women and they got really abnormal results when nothing was wrong. I asked why we tested them and did procedures on them if screening wasn’t working and causing incorrect results. She said it takes a very long time to derail bad medical practice.
Also, women fear this cancer more than they should and have faith in a bad test, you now have to shut this thing down which is very hard. She told me there were concerns about testing women under 30 back in 1990 and still nothing has changed. She thought the test was a long shot but very high risk women might think it a good idea but even they were given too many pap smears and that increased the risk of a false positive.
I was told not to let doctors over-test me, just have them 5 yearly from mid 20′s or even 30 IF I were high risk. That doctor didn’t test, she said all the false positives and treatment put her off. She didn’t worry about rare cancers and was low risk anyway.
I have never tested either, I felt quite scared when I saw these young women coming into the hospital.
I work in the hospital pharmacy now and enjoy being away from that sad and pointless world. http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/comment-page-5/#comment-106
• 839 – Anonymous
Jun 30, 2010 at 6:59 am
I worked in a colposcopy clinic and it’s a conveyor belt of young women having pieces of their cervix removed or treated. It is hard to follow when you know the cancer is not a big problem in the UK.
These women don’t have a clue, all relieved they have been saved.
I work elsewhere now, it started to disturb me. I felt like I was part of a plot to injure healthy women.
No, these things are not minor.
We say they are and we don’t even acknowledge the harm we are doing and the losers are healthy women or rather, were healthy women.
This test has become an industry which is highly profitable. The reluctance to give women a choice and to tell them the truth is to protect profits. Also, most women believe in this test and don’t look behind the “facts”.
There are few people in this field who care to inform women, everyone is self-interested. http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/comment-page-9/#comment-176
forwomenseyesonly 
This is so sick. were not supose to have a say in weather we have pap smears or not. these follow ups are so brutal and barberic. false positves are so comon. this is crime aganst woman. The next time a medical profestional scolds me for not screening I am going to tell them That I know how common false positves are and how damaging and brutal the follow ups are. Most woman have no idea what one pap smear can lead too.
You should have seen the look on one nurses face when at 24 I told her I had never had a pap befor she yelled me out. Now I find out woman under 25 dont bebnifit from paps and most countrys do not screen youg woman. at that time in the US 18 year olds were being told to screen. and that nurse was horrifid that I was 7 years over due. its a crime.
Actually, women under 35 don’t benefit from this- but it’s also massively rare, anyway (so there’s not much of anything to be benefited, as a situation). What’s the commonly held recommendation, now- 25 and older? I’ve heard (and it might have just been a “barker” for these kinds of tests- it certainly didn’t have an optional sound to it, or warn of risks & inaccuracy) of them trying to start these kinds of things at 12-16, and about some schools making it a requistite for attendance. That said, it might have just been an attempt to assist pulling a fast one. Propaganda, marketing tactics, lying for the sake of lying, whatever.
I remember something in an article about these girls that got suspended from a private school in New York because they played hooky on a Friday & the guy said they couldn’t come back until they had a documented gyno exam, pregnancy test, HIV test, and STD tests! Don’t know if that actually went that way (it’s seems they were suing the school for it, but the wording about this “having been a traumatic situation” leaves some doubt). The school imposing something of this nature is the same issue as with medical personnel
I wonder what they’d think of doctors & nurses being forcibly “checked” by the patients (who just want to make sure they’re in good health, of course) at every visit. They could even receive a fee, as an incentive. If they’re a hypochondriact, that’ll make things all the more lucrative (but they’re really “just trying to help”). They might feel free to interject their own decisions into someone else’s life, but as long as they don’t admit it openly it’s unknowable (just a token lie will do- it doesn’t even have to make sense). If the doctor or nurse doesn’t comply with this, maybe they don’t get any plumbing or heating work done. Maybe their car doesn’t get fixed (and the cab driver can just drop them off wherever they feel like- it’s not kidnapping if it’s done with occupational means, obviously). Maybe the grocer doesn’t feel like doing business with them, either.
Anyone every notice a kind of “mangling” quality to a lot of tests & procedures? It doesn’t just have to be with women, but it is more prevalent with them. It’s got a real mutilation twist to it. I know I’ve gotten into some history with allopaths & empirics before, but there’s always been that kind of style to the allopaths. There’s a pretty heavy sociopathic trend with them & a lot of those thought patterns are overlooked when they come up in the medical field- it’s like that with corporations, too (there’s even a book on that I’m reading now- it’s called The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power).
The recommendation in the US is 21, but elsewhere with the exception of Germany and Canada (as far as I know), it is at the youngest 25. In the US, it is common for girls to start screening and being examined as soon as they get their first period. I’m not sure how that started, but a lot of girls here have mothers who told them that or friends or they themselves believe it’s necessary. I’m not sure how that ideology came about, but it happens. Part of it, too, is probably because girls who have cramps or other hormonal issues want birth control and then they submit to screening. I’ve never heard of schools here (aside from colleges/universities, even then you can opt out) making it a requisite for attendance, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Are you kidding me? That is disgusting and horrible. There is nothing justifiable about that. Skipping school obviously means they were engaging in sexual activities and all ended up diseased and impregnated right? More than likely, they went shopping or went to the movies or something of that nature. The fact that any sort of promiscuity was implied is offensive and never should have happened. I hope the school got sued, nothing about that could possibly be legal.
When you spin it that way, it certainly sounds ridiculous. However, if the tables were turned, I’m sure there would be far less compliance.
There is a mangling quality. Considering the technology these days, I don’t think it’s justifiable under nearly any situation. Blood tests and ultra sounds and CT scans can detect most, if not all (I don’t know exactly how far advanced everything is, but at this point from what I’ve read it certainly seems very possible) ailments and injuries. One thing I’ve noticed too, since we’re discussing that it’s more prevelant when it comes to women, is that some men consider it necessary for women to regularly have these exams/screenings. I’ve overheard men saying things like women who don’t get examined are dirty and things like that, as if being examined is the same as going to the dentist and having your teeth cleaned. So it seems as though the propoganda has been able to reach the male population as well. Back to the main point though, it seems as if for every “solution”, it leads to more problems in a lot, if not most cases. Sometimes physical and sometimes psychological. It’s truly frightening, when you think about it.
I don’t understand how they can tell you you’re overdue for an optional screening program. It would be like being told that you’re over due for a colonoscopy or something of that nature. If you aren’t participating in activities that put you at a higher risk, then your risk for a disease is not increasing. If you aren’t sexually active with someone who has had multiple partners or sexually active with multiple partners who have contracted HPV, then I don’t see how you could be “overdue”. Without more risk factors, I don’t see how your risk could possibly be any higher than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Also, I have a question. I’ve read conflicting information and I’m confused, but is cervical cancer hereditary or not? I’ve read some statements saying that it is and other saying that it’s not.
That IS a question mark, isn’t it? Maybe it’s another half-truth (like some people have cancer as a common thing in their family & then it turns into a high risk for this particular cancer). Cancer is very situational- meaning that the environmental circumstances are a massive factor. Radiation & chemicals are both problems and used as treatments, both of which screw up your immune system & that’s what tends to handle cancer in the first place as well as whatever infections someone might get in the hospital (possibly as a by-product of a useless surgery- or a useful one, either way I don’t like the terms “necessary” or “unnecessary” anymore).
Sometimes you get mingled information (like something that was believed & then disproven, but it’s still present in an ambient kind of way- like the last of one drink added to the next). Take that story about girl who fell off the horse (in the Psycological Harms thread). I referenced the guy with the cut on his head before (and I know someone else on here did, too). That’s not viable & wouldn’t work whether the doctors involved declared it that way or not. That’s WITH patient determination- outside of it, it IS rape. Again, I don’t really see the logic in trusting someone like that with anything.
Definitely, it implies that (and an urge to impose a situation of that nature, not to mention it being someone older on young girls- vicarious molestation through medicine). Even if the girls were out screwing around- that’s none of their business, anyway. I’ve noticed the school really starting to think that it’s a situation of THEIR students. There’s a lot of that “co-person” style in this country, lately. I guess “bullying” is the right word, but someone wielding their business to do it isn’t really the cliche image. How great would it be to hear that that guy ran into someone that did those things to him? I mean sure, a guy won’t have cervial cancer (then again, neither will most women), but that wouldn’t really be the point (not that it is with most women). I figure he screwed himself out of plenty of humane treatment by going after young girls (I don’t know if I’d call high school girls “kids,” but they’re not quite grown & it’d be wrong to do that in that case, too).
they have a problem yelling at us. this silly doctor burst into my room upset that i wasn’t on birth control. her next statement was about the rising cases of aids in black women. the psychology they use is crazy, i told her if she wanted to do an aids test to make herself feel better then go ahead. later on i realized how crazy that visit was, there is no birth control that protects against stds other than what i was using. condoms!
Hi Kiki. I’m afraid the medical proffession has a very negative attitude towards black people. Historically it always has. Its a disgrace. You would think this is the Victorian Era and not 2015. Aids is not a black peoples problem – its everyones problem! With this mind set its reached a point where all women are safer relying on themselves and knowledgable elders. We should all stay away from established medicine when we can.
Ro, there’s no hard evidence that CC is hereditary – I think that’s a myth that’s sprung up among women over the years. When you use such a horribly unreliable test which leads so many healthy women into day procedures, it’s hardly surprising that many of them come away from the whole awful experience believing they’ve been *saved*. All too often I’ve heard young women claiming that their Mum/Sister/Aunt/Family cat had the disease so they have to be extra vigilant, yet when you dig deeper into these family histories it’s clear that they simply had so-called preventative treatments and not actual cancer.
The Gyn industry thrives on keeping it’s victims ignorant and compliant. Countries which have state run programs (like here in the UK) need to get as many bums on seats as possible in order to make the program *work* and justify it’s existence. Hence, treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen is the order of the day. The less we actually know, the better it is for those greedy gynaecologists and self-righteous medics who take the credit for ‘saving lives’ but don’t give a damn about the thousands more women who’s health and happiness are ruined along the way.
Thank you for the reply, Kate! It seems like there are a lot of myths surrounding screening and this cancer in general. Even in countries without state run programs (like here in the US), as this post stated, it’s a billion dollar business
I am not surprised by this. Research has shown that up to 90% of surgeries are unnecessary. I would argue that probably a majority of all medical procedures are likely unnecessary including the yearly physical (which has been shown to be unnecessary). Our society is medicalized with people taking medications and constantly having medical tests and procedures done. Even my recent experience with finding out that my Dr is tracking my BMI is an example. There is no need to track the BMI of a healthy individual but now the weight of everyone has been medicalized. The medical system looks at everything as sick or not and if you happen to fall into the category of being sick it needs to be cut out or medicated or both. Why? Because that is how they make their money. If you are healthy they don’t make money off you. The destruction of bodies and/or psyches along the way doesn’t matter.
I definitely believe that. I’ve noticed that the rare medical problems are blown way out of proportion, but the common ones are marginalized (iatrogenically caused ones included- possibly even moreso). Your doctor tracking your body mass is weird- if you were having a problem losing weight would that have come up when you were talking to them? I think it’s got a bit of a “stalker” feel to it. When anybody else is trying to pick at every little detail & gather whatever information they could on somebody, it’s a bit creepy (it’s like they’re trying to mentally encompass somebody).
I think they screen for things they have treatments for or meds for. it doesnt seem to matter if the problem is common or not every one is targeted. and i do not think there would be so much talk about cervical cancer if the pap smear was never invented. they screen pple for high blood presuer so they can sell them statens its about money.
Totally. With weight in particular, it’s been pointed out that doctors will ignore medical causes of weight gain, such as some prescription meds, PCOS and thyroid conditions, which are all very common – and will just fat-shame and blame their patients for “lack of diet and exercise.” There have been articles pointing out that many patients of size will avoid going to the doctor even when they have real concerns (there was one woman who died because she didn’t go to the doctor for persistent shortness of breath – it turned out that she had a pulmonary embolism) because of the way they are treated.
And BMI itself has been shown to be a completely inaccurate measure of health for just about everyone, since it doesn’t take fitness level, body frame or muscle mass into account. There have been tons of reports pointing out that many athletes qualify as “obese” by their BMI numbers because they have such dense muscle mass…does anyone really think they are unhealthy?! A lot of researchers have pointed out that there are a lot of ways to gauge someone’s health and fitness that are far more accurate than BMI – but most physicians take that BMI number as some kind of gospel truth and act accordingly; and of course there’s a lot of weight-shaming that happens as a result. They ARE there to make money at your expense.
The BMI was never intended to be a measure for the diagnosis of weight issues or obesity as it is not accurate, as you state, for those individuals who are active and have a lot of muscle mass. Muscle is dense and weighs more than fat so someone who is very active, such as myself, will weigh more even though they are thin thus having a higher BMI. Once again the medical profession has taken an inaccurate tool that was never intended for population screening and relies on it for diagnostic purposes. Weight-shaming definitely happens as it’s happened to me even though I am thin and active but have a high BMI.
Sorry I ment to say they screen for cholesteral for statens
You know- statin drugs cause some serious problems, too. Rhabdomyolysis & myopathy are both linked to that.
Personally, I don’t think money is the main motivation for these things (I think it’s a decoy & a perk at the same time). Someone that’s just like that acts like they’re only in it for the money. Also, sometimes people act like anything occupational is innocent (“they’re just doing their job” is a pretty common response/sugar-coating). Maybe it’s also an angle to make things look innocent (of course, occupational doesn’t mean fictional-but it’s maybe an attempt to cash in on nonsense).
Certainly everything having an effect that you’d need something else that you’d need to compensate for would be a cash generator. Never understood why someone wouldn’t get paid for actually fixing things, though. It’s like there’s an incentive for failure- but shouldn’t somone not make money if that’s the case?
Colposcopies, cervical biopsies and treatments for cervical “abnormalities” are just legalized female genital mutilations!! And the faulty pap tests are just a way to herd women to the clinics of torture. The whose cervical screening system is a sad, painful and dangerous money-making factory for doctors, nothing else!
My mom goes in every 3-6 months for this (and biopsies and paps) because her doctor told her she had cancer. I’ve read her record, there is no cancer, never was. Just HPV. At her age (42 almost 43) she wouldn’t have HPV if she hadn’t had 6 sex partners in the last 7 years, on top of her husband of 20 years. Oh and for once, cancer hit the right person; her doctor has stage 4 inoperable brain cancer. Despite this, he’s still mutilating women (AKA working). This is the same doctor who convinced her to have Essure surgery since she refused to get a hysterectomy and then continued to hound her for paps, colps/biopsies and hyst. This is also the same doctor I saw years ago (before “waking up”) and told me I was sterile and that my painful periods were all in my head (my midwife guessed and said I had endo, later her backup OB said simply based on my symptoms I definitely have endo). Can’t imagine a better person for cancer to happen to!
Oh, OIA, that makes me sick to my stomach. These people are monsters or beyond incompetent, (I think it’s the former in most cases) using their trusting patients in the worst possible way to boost profits. Hopefully, his days of harming women are almost over, but I fear there will be someone just as bad to step into his shoes/practice.
That’s why we need to get to women, of course, women who’ve been scared to death and “treated” for years or been lied to (you have cc, when you have HPV…what?) will in many cases, be too scared to move away from the exam room and day procedure.
How’s your baby boy?
I’m told he’s “working till the end” (till cancer kills him). For once, cancer struck the right person, though I’d never wish cancer on anyone.
Little Boy is fine, thanks for asking. He’s been walking (taking a few unsupported steps) since he was 7 months old which is quite early. Seems to be hitting milestones very early (has been saying “mama” and “dada” to the correct parent for quite some time now).
Not sure if you knew but we took him to a neurologist for the “seizure like activity” as the pediatrician called it (we later swapped to a GP who called them “febrile seizures” AKA fever seizures). The neuro did nothing but a flashlight in eye test and the standard knee reflex test and then otld me it was all in my head and he refused to do any other tests such as EEG. The scary part is I don’t know a thing about my biological father’s history so epilepsy may be present. Because my son was under 6months when the seizures hit, the seizures are going to be much more common AND more severe. I basically have to wait till he has a Grand Mal seizure before any doctor will ok any tests. Here’s another crappy part: Our GP asked US which doctor he referred us to because the neuro never sent him over his notes!! Just doctor BS.
Most woman I know are way to trusting with doctors. Its really scary how some doctors take advantage of woman with these exams. Telling woman they have cancer when they do not is fraud. I think that is a crime.
It’s a multifaceted iatrogenic attack (as well as fraud). A lot of things are crimes, but some people are okay with them. Remember that guy that went to the hospital for the cut on his head (they forced a rectal exam saying wanted to check for spinal damage- which it’s not viable for, as well)? That case got thrown out.
A lot of legal & legislative personnel are like this, too (don’t forget: a lot of things cops & guards do run the same or similar lines & these medical situations can very easily be imposed in a prison or a juvenile situation). Lawyers may or may not side with someone that’s in the right (some lawyers look at it as slavery for the doctor’s business practices to be modified by patient determination- like saying a cab driver that decides to drop someone off wherever they feel like is the victim if that person deflects what they are looking to inflict). Judges direct these types of situations at people, too.
Overitall, If you dont mind me asking. Have you tried to explane to your mom that shes does not have cancer. and about flse positves and overtreatment?
I have Kleigh. She tells me I have no idea what I’m talking about and that her dr would never lie to her. Such crap!
She brought me in to one of her biopsies and as we were leaving the building, she asked “so, explain what just happened.” She apparently didn’t understand the doctor. She claims I don’t know what I’m talking about yet trusts my medical training enough to ask me what happened. Her doctor was shocked when I commented on the cervical punch biopsy tool and seemed very surprised I knew what it was and he even offered to let me do the biopsy myself. WTF?
I can relate to this. I’ve been told that the facts/evidence/statistics were made up by like-minded women who did not like the invasiveness of screening and that I should follow the guidelines and what my doctor tells me after presenting the information to someone. A lot of trust is placed in the medical system. I read your previous comments, and I’m sad to hear that your mother has gone through so much. It’s truly sickening that the well-being of patients isn’t always a priority. Also, I’m just curious, how does one go about getting a copy of their medical record? I’d like to be able to look over mine, as I have my concerns about possible misdiagnosis in the past regarding other issues.
Ro, it is not possible to “make up” the facts and statistics. The “like-minded women” are the ones who are providing links to the facts and statistics so that women will be able to gather enough information to make informed choices. The facts and statistics are often withheld from women, or if they are offered they are often presented with spin and bias attached. An excellent example of spin and bias follows this statement in regards to the HPV vaccines:
“About eight in every ten women who have been sexually active will have H.P.V. at some stage of their life. Normally there are no symptoms, and in 98 per cent of cases it clears itself. But in those cases where it doesn’t, and isn’t treated, it can lead to pre-cancerous cells which may develop into cervical cancer.” – Dr. Diane Harper
“One must understand how the establishment’s word games are played to truly understand the meaning of the above quote, and one needs to understand its unique version of “science”. When they report that untreated cases “can” lead to something that “may” lead to cervical cancer, it really means that the relationship is merely a hypothetical conjecture that is profitable if people actually believe it. In other words, there is no demonstrated relationship between the condition being vaccinated for and the rare cancers that the vaccine might prevent, but it is marketed to do that nonetheless. In fact, there is no actual evidence that the vaccine can prevent any cancer. From the manufacturers own admissions, the vaccine only works on 4 strains out of 40 for a specific venereal disease that dies on its own in a relatively short period, so the chance of it actually helping an individual is about about the same as the chance of him being struck by a meteorite.” http://www.realfarmacy.com/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean/#ov8bWkFI0AwGy8ZM.01
RO: To get a copy of your medical record: go to dr(s), request the records (you!ll need to do this verbally and in writing) and they actually require that you PAY for YOUR record (cost of paper/ink supposedly). It should only be $0.10-.15 per, max of $20 total I think. If they refuse, loudly say “I have the right to have a copy of my medical record. Withholding this right will result in my consulting a lawyer”. It works every time, good luck!! Also, you can simply view your record (free) if you can’t get a copy. I read my mom’s while talking to the dr during the biopsy and brought up that my mom had hpv type (forget which one it was but it was “lowrisk”) and questioned him on everything. Of course he had an answer for everything
I went for one pap test after reality TV star Jade Goody died of CC. The test didn’t go well, I had no idea what it was going to be like and the nurse ended up making out like there was something wrong with me because I got upset at the scraping of my cervix as I lay exposed by an upstairs window. But then she told me I was very low risk anyway, husband & I only having been with each other. Anyway, after the ordeal I had internal pain for a while, and was psychologically disturbed by it. It also put me off sex for a few months or so because I couldn’t bear the thought of it. Since then, I have quit the system, ha ha! I get a letter every now and then and just tear it up. There is so much scaremongering out there that you dare not tell anyone that you don’t go or haven’t had one. The stats speak for themselves. If it was so important that EVERY woman got screened, why do they refuse to make testing less invasive and damaging (physically & mentally)? I have spoken about it to 2 older women (50s+) who say the hate going, but then have to. WHY? Why do they not question the system? One of them has had a full hysterectomy, but the doctor says she should still have them, just in case, and she believes them because she is a hypochondriac. The other one said she complained to the doctor that it hurt and he said “you have sex with your husband, don’t you?” Unbelievable! How is that the same thing?!! I wish people would take charge of themselves and realise they have a choice to make an INFORMED decision instead of taking everything these doctors and advertising propagandists say as gospel. Just my two pennies.
This is just so true. I’ve never met any woman who doesn’t mind smear tests,and yet so few women question this practise, and make any effort to find out if any of this is really necessary. It is small wonder that the medical profession can herd women like sheep into such a scheme.
Ha!
Here’s a woman asking if it is safe to get pregnant after her treatment for ‘cervical cancer”. Love the response from the second doctor.
“An extra comment is that I often get patients who say they have had cervical cancer when this has not been the case. Rather they have been treated for Cervical Intraepithelial Neoplasia (CIN or abnormal changes in the skin of the cervix that without treatment can lead to cancer in the future).
CIN is not cancer and the situation is easily clarified by history taking at the initial pregnancy consultation.”
http://www.healthshare.com.au/questions/46481-is-it-safe-for-me-to-conceive-after-undergoing-cervical-cancer-treatment
colposopy for ASCUS pap result is just ridiculous because it could just be caused by an infection (bacterial, yeast, virus) or inflammation. It is just an experiment on women that they unknowingly participating in.
“22nd European Congress of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases
(ECCMID)STD and other infections in women
Saturday, March 31, 2012, 15:30 – 16:30
Is bacterial vaginosis associated with cervical (pre)neoplasia in asymptomatic reproductive-age women?
S. Baka, I. Tsouma, E. Politi, A. Kapoula, E. Elefteriou, E. Kouskouni* (Athens, GR)Objectives: Early detection of cervical cell abnormalities by Papanicolaou (Pap) smear has reduced the risk of cervical cancer development. It has been suggested that other factors besides human papillomavirus (HPV) infection, might be involved in the malignant progression. Cervical inflammation has been proposed as one of the cofactors in cervical carcinogenesis, because disturbance of the vaginal microflora is associated with an increased risk of acquisition of HPV infection. Bacterial vaginosis, which sometimes can be asymptomatic, is a clinical entity quite common in women all over the world and is characterized by an increased production of N-nitrosamines by Gardnerella vaginalis, which are carcinogenic. We aimed to evaluate a possible association between the presence of G. vaginalis in asymptomatic reproductive age women with cervical (pre)neoplasia.
Methods: Asymptomatic women with inflammatory changes on routinely performed Pap smear and recalled for cultures in the last year were included in the study. Vaginal and cervical cultures were performed under standard conditions. A wet mount as well as a gram-stained smear were examined under microscope to obtain valuable information about the microorganisms present and to apply Nugent criteria for the diagnosis of bacterial vaginosis.
Results: For this preliminary study we included 77 women with bacterial vaginosis and 41 women with negative cultures (normal flora present), who served as controls. In the bacterial vaginosis group cervical cytology was normal in 64 (83.1%) and abnormal in 13 (16.9%) cases. Epithelial cell abnormalities included 7 cases of atypical squamous cells of undetermined significance (ASCUS), 5 cases of low-grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (LGSIL) and one case of high-grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (HSIL). In the controls, normal cervical cytology was present in 38 (92.7%) and abnormal in 3 (7.3%), including 2 cases of ASCUS and 1 LGSIL. All patients with epithelial cell abnormalities were referred for colposcopy and managed according to standard practices, while women with bacterial vaginosis were treated with metronidazole
Conclusions: The higher prevalence of abnormal cytology in the group of women diagnosed with bacterial vaginosis stresses the need for cervical cytology screening in these patients. Further research on women with bacterial vaginosis is needed to study the causal relationship between G. vaginalis infection and cervical (pre)neoplasia.”
Getting HPV test is stupid if you are over 35 because then you are almost guarenteed to have repeat biopsies and more procedures in the future.
They do not know what causes cervical cancer and I do not need to be chopped up for their experimental studies.
Society of Gyn Canada.
Click to access gui284CPG1212E.pdf
If you read these guidelines there is a table that shows that many abnormal pap result conditions will regress to normal on their own. There are also guidelines that every colposcopy exam must take a minimum of two biopsies.
I wish all women would read these accounts and that their eyes become opened to the obvious. How many times do we not have to hear that men in this field do not view female patients ‘like that’ and how they try to make us feel as if we are the ones being offensive and sexist for merely pointing out their sexism? And the truth is even worse that they don’t just get sexually aroused by viewing naked female patients but actually get more so aroused by viewing them in the most humiliating positions and perform invasive exams and harmful surgery on them. Oh yeah, it’s probably no coincidence either that the majority of men still watch porn and that the majority of porn is all about helping men get off on watching women being sexually humiliated. And that only men came up with the idea of gynecology and perform invasive procedures on women in the peculiar submissive position with legs up in stirrups(‘required in this field’) routineously? Oh well, that couldn’t possibly have anything to do with one another and the pervasive desire of men to sexually dominate and humiliate women, could it?
Here’s a meme I made which addresses this male underlying desire that is rooted in gynecology and the pressuring of women into pap smears (trigger warning): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=328049160637294&set=a.108612182580994.15350.108600349248844&type=1&theater
P.S. I also have a topic on my proboards forum from another testimonial ‘in the colposcopy field’ on blogcritics that I saved. I linked to this article as well. http://womenagainststirrups.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=questionnaire&thread=87&page=1
I’d be very careful to properly demonize the behavior, not the gender (because some women are cut from the same cloth- men don’t have the market cornered on pervyness). Not just that, but you might very well get more male support if it were seen as welcome. Some men really don’t have an urge to violate that’s merely restrained- with some (perhaps most- kind of hard to know) it’s just not where their compass points. Being very honest & elaborating on the mechanics of a problem tend to work well with men, instead of getting blown off because it sounds like you’re making a point about something you don’t have a problem with.
Actually, there was a an American in the slavery days that used to experiment on his pregnant female slaves. Guess what profession that turned into? There’s a massive amount of history, but it still is a point that properies don’t change because of designation. That attempt to “overturn” things is a running theme (and sometimes women are antagonistically delusional, too- they want to break off a piece of that same antagonism, they just try to act more sweet & innocent when they do it).
Looking at a bit of history: the empirics were the ones that would give someone something to support & strengthen the body’s sytems, if there was a problem they’d give them something to bolster the body’s ability to fix it, and after that small doses of things that would not be for general use (to kill parasites, for instance- you wouldn’t drink that all the time, it’d be a specific usage). The allopaths, on the other hand: would bleed people, give thme massive doses of toxic chemicals (including mercury, which is part of why Ivan the Terrible was so nuts- they gave him mercury for his back pain), and surgery (remember that scene from Dances with Wolves or the one from The Patriot?). This was, basically, torturing someone under a different designation. There’s a heavy theme of “reality is what I say it is” with that (acting as though the things they did were an assistance, which is antithetical to an attack). The concept of being antagonistic to life, in general, is pretty easy to notice. No real suprise, then, that these professions are so antagonistic to women- particularly in the way that they are (men have their role in the whole procreating life thing, but women are a bit more involved & there are some areas that are more involved than others).
I heard about this from two different people. Before a colposcopy there is an intake questionnaire by a nurse. The patient is asked if they had previous psychiatric treatment. If they said yes then they were restrained with wrist straps during the colposcopy.
Other women told me that they were screaming in pain to stop during the procedure and the colposcopist would not stop. They just said “well, you did sign the consent form”.
That’s horrible! It sounds like they decide that they’re going to overcome the patient’s reactions to these things (like past trauma is going to give them an edge). Someone signing a consent form doesn not mean that they can disregard a refusal that is made!
They also don’t care if there’s an indicator that they’re causing a problem. I guess that’s something they’re intent on “overcoming”- that they persevere in their actions in spite of their failure.
That’s absolutely disgusting! I’m sick of hearing about doctors blaming women for the pain they experience during these procedures. If a woman complains about pain during a smear, she’s told that she isn’t breathing correctly or is too tense and it’s her fault. If she feels pain during colposcopy procedures, then that’s too bad because she signed the consent form. If a woman has had psychiatric treatment in the past, then I’m sure they blame it on the woman as well and say that it was a hallucination or that she made it up or that the pain was all in her mind. I had no idea they questioned women like that – how is it even relevant? Here’s an idea: if multiple women are complaining about something causing them pain, humiliation, discomfort, etc., then it probably has nothing to do with them and everything to do with what’s being done to them. This madness must stop. If it truly is about care, then everywhere needs to switch to evidence-based non-invasive procedures and invent better ways to treat existing problems. With all of the technology we have now, they’d certainly be capable of improving treatment methods. The sad thing is though, I’m beginning to realize that it has very little do with care. Care implies that you’re fixing an existing problem with minimal damage (or no damage at all, which is ideal) done in the process. That is not the case for women’s health care.
Even without all this technology, the methods used previously didn’t work. It’s not effective to just do “something” in pursuit of a goal. It doesn’t actually fill a gap, because it doesn’t actually work.
I wanted to let everyone know that a woman was burned during colonoscopy. You can find this bizarre case at http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/investigations/2013/11/12/malpractice-toxic-chemical/3495297/.
Misty
It was actually colposcopy. I am sorry for the typo.
Misty
Okay women need to talk about this.
There is huge difference between having an abnormal pap and having cancer. Some doctors will try to scare women into thinking they will get cancer if their CIN 2 or 3 is not treated. Some cases will regress naturally as the body heals itself without any LEEP, laser or cryo or any treatment just vitamins. A woman might have to decide if she has CIN 3 about how much of her cervix is involved. cancer in situ (cin3) is not technically cancer.
Also LEEP does not ” cure” HPV. Some women have to keep coming back for more procedures until nothing of their cervix is left and then they get a hysterectomy. Does not mean that they 100% will get cancer even if they do or do not get a LEEP.
LEEP can cause sexual dysfunction although most doctors will say it is all psychological. It does cause miscarriages for at least one year after. It can cause infertility and problems in pregnancy/delivery.
Case of one young women had CIN 2 and treatments and colposcopies. She ended up with a Cone biopsy. I do not know if she eventually got cancer but at some point she just got feed up and went with natural therapies.
Another young women got CIN 2 and her doctor did not refer her to colposcopy just calmly told her to take prenatal vitamins (with folic acid), try to eat well, stop using tampons, take espom salt baths and a few other bits of advice. Her problem cleared up in 6 months.
Women over 40 are being referred for colposcopies for ANY abnormal pap at all. I can’t help but think how harmful this is. Atypical glandular cells could just be a fibroid or polyp but they are told they need an ECC. endometrial cells could mean hyperplasia or not but they are told they need endometrial sampling.
I even wonder how long a woman could live with cervical cancer and it not cause her a problem? How is the quality of life compared to what it would be with “treatments”?
Yes. As I was told that I “had cancer.” Only to figure out after the cryosurgery that I had “precancer.” Hmmm. So my life wasn’t at risk? There was no rush to perform the “cure” that day after all? It was just convenience for the doc to pressure you into a procedure sure as hell not medically necessary.
Docs have no idea, and there’s no measurable guides indicating how much tissue to cut, burn, or fry away. And yes, women who have too much taken off or have repeated procedures are most likely to have hysterectomy. Just watch that video on you tube. NO thanks.
The brown paste applied to the cervix to stop bleeding? It’s a thick rust solution.
This was posted some time ago, but after reading for me its a no no – quality over quantity, may not be for everyone, but we all make our choices even if having REAL cancer, :
This girl commented on Margaret McCarthy’s site and believes she has been saved, this is only part of it though:
“Girls suffer daily from the effect of the cancer treatment and the stigma attached to CC and the serious long term effects of the radio and chemo therapy you receive for CC is far worse than u can ever imagine as the doctors/oncologist don’t emphasize how severe they can be (not that you have a choice). Now I use a wheel chair mostly when I am out.. Live on a bowel of pills from morphine to muscle relaxers to bowel meds etc due to radio damage to my spine, pelvis, sacrum, nerves in legs, hips and back, lymph system.. I also got multiple areas of multiple fractures all over my pelvis (basically my pelvis is shattered) from the radio destroying the bone. I got colitis to my whole bowel due to radio and a twist on my vowel.. I currently have a kidney infection due to all the bladder damage AGAIN from radio.. I got damage to my hearing from the chemo and lost my sense if smell/taste.. I have serious short term memory problems and problems with concentration (just writing this is hard and I know I now sound like a child when I write)
I live with a good 4-6 pain level on a normal day.. Every day”
I couldn’t go through this!
ChasUK there is no doubt that aggressive cancer is horrible and the treatment can be just as aggressive and cause a lot of suffering. It’s up to each individual to weigh up the risks and benefits before making a decision to screen or not. I personally take issue with this overwhelming bullying towards all women to screen for an uncommon cancer. I have a higher risk for heart disease and would rather focus on preventive healthcare such as a healthy, active lifestyle than submit to invasive testing for a rare disease.
I think you’ve got to ask yourself how much energy you want to invest in avoiding perceived dangers. You could focus on just a few of those threats and use common sense to live longer, like not blow-drying your hair while taking a bath or driving at night without headlights. Or you could wake up everyday and run through a list of all the possible dangers awaiting you on your way to the bathroom – tripping over your cat and hitting your head on the door knob causing a brain aneurysm, or a funnel web spider hiding in your slippers. These things could happen and have happened to other people and it’s horrible for them, and when we read about it we are a little bit more cautious about the cat or checking our shoes before putting them on. But the chances of a freak accident are about as high as getting cervical cancer. As Peter Gøtzsche says: “What we need is to remember Brian McFerrin’s song: “Don’t worry, be happy”.
That is because the cancer treatment for cervical cancer usually kills the person. There are too many vital organs in the area: bowel, kidney, bladder etc. How long do the doctors expect to extend this woman’s life and how much suffering will she have. Usually the survival rate beyond 5 years is noted. Permanent damage is likely to occur from the radiation treatments and it that supposed to be ok “because she is still alive”.?
So dying naturally from cervical cancer might not be too easy either but maybe more humane.
I did come across a paper that was about a women who had cervical cancer. She refused conventional treatments using alternative therapies. In the end she did end up in hospitals as the tumors spread to her liver, bowels, kidneys. She refused an autopsy in her will but they used her data and biopsies after her death against her wishes. This poor woman had HPV type 18 and she was low risk, did not know how she got it – probably from her doctor’s office during a pap test or other procedures I suspect. They could not confirm that she had HPV 18 from her first grade III diagnosis. How well is diagnostic equipment sterilized? Some of the instruments cannot be autoclaved.
http://www.jmedicalcasereports.com/content/5/1/316
“a well-documented case of a 29-year-old Caucasian woman who was found, through routine conventional cervical cytology screening, to have pathologic Papanicolaou (Pap) grade III D lesions (squamous cell abnormalities). She subsequently died as a result of human papillomavirus type 18-associated cervical cancer after she refused all recommended curative therapeutic procedures over a period of 13 years.”
We are all subjected to this cancer scare stuff when we are pressured for pap tests and for “further investigation” if we ever have an abnormal pap test result. I must note from the journal paper that “Consequently, invasive cancer of the cervix has become increasingly infrequent in this part of the world, but it remains a significant health problem in underdeveloped countries, where meticulous documentation of fatal courses of the disease plays a minor role. Thus, our knowledge of the lead time between dysplasia and the development of invasive cancer as well as progression from early-stage to metastasized cancer largely derives from extrapolating information from studies and textbooks, but very few case reports.”
and
“Documented cases of untreated cervical dysplasia are rare, and ours appears to be only the second report published during the past 10 years that is retrievable in the currently available medical literature databases. The other case, reported in 2002, described a very short interval of one year between the diagnosis of cervical dysplasia and metastases in the bone, liver, and orbit [5]. This short interval between dysplasia and metastatic cervical cancer, however, raises questions as to whether the Pap smear was representative or whether invasive cancer was missed. Thus, our case presentation might be one of the very few examples of a complete clinical documentation of such “natural” progression among retrievable case reports in the medical literature.”
Get the idea:
-cases of fatal cervical cancer are rare
-they could never prove that her HPV 18 positive tumour was the original cause of her grade 111 pap test result.
-Only two such cases of death by untreated cervical cancer published about in ten years.
-she went for alternative therapies and lived for 13 more years
-there might a huge difference to having a slow growing tumor that is not going to kill you right away and your quality of life in refusing treatments or even screening at all to some fast cancer that will a women even when she has paps every year.
The “Fear Factor” of medicine. Better come in here, remove your clothes, and submit! Leave your loved one outside for privacy. You can trust me, I’m a doctor! Why do I feel a lawyer told him/her what to say?
Check out Leroy Nicholas DC. He’s in Chicago IL. And he can kill CC w/o the cut, freeze, and burn mentality.
There’s docs on YouTube who like to say that LEEP or cold knife is best to clear the margins.
Not doing pap might prevent the need for any of these. Docs cannot explain how we can fight off HPV w/o their help. Nor can they agree whether or not HPV stays with us for life.
We once had the former best friend of my husband stay with us. A newby doctor out of U Indiana. He told my husband how he was trained to pap.
There was the male professor, 6 male med students, and one shaved very attractive coed study patient who was paid $3000 for her volunteering her vagina for “medicine.” NO female chaperone. We knew why this guy had turned deviant. His first pelvic exam might as well had been filmed from the movie Animal House. What did he do afterward? He and the others went their separate ways asap to masturbate. He remarked prior to that day he hadn’t the time to do it otherwise. How nice that after the his first pelvic exam he remembered how…
We’ll never know the truth behind these very rare cases of women at age 18 or younger dying of CC.
These cases are always mysteries seemingly made to fit what authorities are wanting us to do.
You can’t assume screening will save you from cancer, it might even disadvantage you. (false negatives)
If they were really concerned about cc they’d offer women choices, including HPV primary testing and self-testing, but no, they concentrate on population pap testing rather than confine the offer of pap tests to the 5% or so of women actually at risk….and treat vast numbers when a HPV test would take most of these worn out of the treatment room. It says to me that this testing suits many in the medical world and their primary aim is not reducing deaths from cc…it’s profits.
I agree with Si, you have to pick your fights, getting worked up and accepting risk with testing for a rare cancer makes no sense to me, especially when a safer option is available. Before the decades of propaganda started, few women worried about cc, since screening many worry out of all proportion to the risk, this diverts attention away from far more likely risks.
I think we’d be far better off focusing on lifestyle, heart disease, mental health…back to basics prevention like regular exercise, decent diet, enough sleep, weight mgt etc and more resources for the major/common problems and serious threats. It’s madness to spend millions screening for a rare cancer, especially when we can now identify the small number actually at risk.
Look at an awful experience a lady had when she had a colposcopy done at http://www.xojane.com/healthy/i-woke-up-in-a-pool-of-blood-after-an-awful-gynecologist-appointment.
Misty
A paste is supposed to be applied after a cervical biopsy to help stop bleeding and prevent infection. She should have been sent home with instructions as well and what to expect. She did not need the colpsocpy unless she was having symptoms especially if she had not had an abnormal Pap test recently.
17 year old women do not need to have Pap tests even if they start having sex at age 15 .
I was reading a blob of medical students discussing whether a child raped at age 3 would need a Pap test at age 6. Wisely most of them agree that it would be unnecessarily traumatic to do that to a child. Maybe someone can did it,
On youtube, you can watch a male gyn butcher his way through this procedure. No local anesthesia. Looks like a shark attack on her cervix. His voice, his ape-like hairy hands, the casual way he speaks, and how he brushes off her case with his “nothing wrong” Dx at the end. I despise him.
Oh mine, these “enlightened” female magazines, where women give each other coping tips (“I buy myself ice cream afterwards”) about how to allow a stranger to penetrate their vagina, against their will, and they think they are so feminist and empowered. None of them ever stops and thinks. WHY? I understand the culture/sociology side of it, but not the psychology.. can someone tell me..?
Sometimes people don’t notice that they notice something. Did you ever say: “Do you even hear yourself when you talk?” That’s the theme.
Another point (and I know I say this like a borderline chant) is THINKING COMPOSITIONALLY. A situation is what it consists of, plain & simple. The dynamics of a situation do not change by designation.
A fight is a perfect example: Something can be held to be a “fight stopper,” but if it keeps going after that- this is what happens. Someone can “know” that they are going to win & then not. Someone might not even believe the fight even happened, but it did if it did.
On a side-note: I truly don’t think anyone really believes that reality IS what they SAY it is, because right on the first step that’s maintaining the point that the situation IS this way. These people also understand pretty damn well when something doesn’t go their way & when they’re figuring out countermeasures. Speaking of countermeasures:
Here’s a good countermeasure to someone playing that “I don’t understand reality, but I’m going to argue what the situation is” game: Tell them “You agree (or agreed) with me.” When they say that they didn’t, then you can say “Oh, that what IS the situation, is it? So you know a situation is what it consists of, you just support (whatever situation you’re arguing against).” Now they either have to make the point that they DO support whatever it is, or change their stance (at least publicly). Checkmate! I call it “Drawing Out the Splinter.”
For fun I went to the Essure website. A woman writes “her” story. Talks about how great life, her gyn, how quickly her hubby came on board w/Essure. Of course, that’s the limit to his involvement in her/their family planning (society wonders why men feel the way they do–then there’s those who are happy with being excluded–go figure).
Afterwards, she says the “may” have had some cramping like she “may” experience during a “mild” period, she “may” have had some discomfort that anti-inflammatories would resolve…
Did this woman experience anything or not?
Does this mean any woman with Essure “may” suffer hellish symptoms the rest of her life?
My husband has insisted on accompanying me to the gyn since our second year dating. The first time a physician assistant asked us a bunch of questions as to whether or not we’d had multiple sex partners at one time. And then if it was ongoing. My husband finally asked if he understood what monogamy meant.
He has a photographic memory. Not one time has he ever seen me go through an exam where questions asked and things done match a prior exam. Finally he had a vasectomy so I/we could put an end to birth control hostage taking. Afterward, not one doctor ever told us I’d die if I didn’t have pap done. None cared. So the issue of whether pap is truly necessary I’d say is moot.
Yeah, the BS surrounding Essure and the other merry IUD’s is thick and confusing.
You’d think husbands everywhere only cared about sex. Not pain, periods, how we’re treated in the doctor’s office, and whether or not himself, myself, we as a couple, are lied to. Every BS advertisement treats this as if men would rather never to into an exam room, and as if women appreciate that, and as if we’re better off being alone with a would-be rapist doctor. What nonsense! Men as we’ve spoken to want to be there, to ask questions, and to protect.
Not having them there? Not wanting them there? Don’t be surprised if he gets pissed off at you and eventually cheats. Yeah, it’s your body, but it’s “our” marriage. It’s your pussy, and his penis, but it’s the two of you in bed making love. So if you expect him to understand your periods, exams, etc, you must train him. The experience humbled my husband, united us together tighter as a team, and enabled him to be my advocate. He chose to take an active part in birth control and in sparing me the hassle and BS of exams. Many others would do same if they weren’t bullied into silence by other women, nurses in particular, and doctors.
Let me ask you. Have you noticed that the nurse assistant leaves the room with the specimens while the doc performs the internal exam on you? Number one issue with my husband. Also, the assistant is busy and is not able to look over the docs shoulder as he can. And that “privacy tent” sheet we’re covered with? More BS. Just something the doc has to protect him from being caught stroking our clits etc.
As you age, also notice that docs will NOT want to touch you let alone examine you. Those very comprehensive pelvic exams? For the deviant’s these exams only happen to skinny young women not to older women who’ve had kids. That too really pisses us off.
Women have been killed and maimed and sterilized by Essure, Mirena, and the other IUD’s.
What you aren’t told otherwise is the terrible pain that comes with insertion of these devices. My internist (female) told my husband that she experiences 2 minutes of the worst pain imaginable. But then she doesn’t have to worry about anything for the next 5 years. My husband looked at her and replied, “…so why should you experience ANY pain?” She couldn’t answer. Brainwashed. Lazy docs should offer sedation and short acting narcotics, nerve blocks, just about any support would be better than what we’re expected to accept. Them saying to pop a couple Advil’s beforehand? Useless except as a placebo. 400mg ibuprofen will NOT effect blood serum levels to have any positive reduction on pain of any kind. Cramping is produced by prostaglandins and stimulation of sympathetic nerve fibers in spine and and brain. Your cervix as well as outer vagina are embedded with nerves. That’s also interesting that our cervix looks a lot like a man’s penis head. And we know that’s full of sensory nerves.
To clarify myself- I get it from the side of the system, but not from the side of the individual- it must be more complex then internalising oppression… can anyone recommend relevant psychological literature?
i found non evasive test for colon cancer Included on the list are two cheap, at-home poop tests intended to be done annually: the guaiac-based fecal occult blood test (gFOBT) and a more sensitive test called the fecal immunochemical test, or FIT. Both look for tiny amounts of blood in the stool that might be shed by cancer or polyps. You get one from your doctor, take a poop sample at home, and then return the sample to the doctor. Only if you get a positive result do you need to have a colonoscopy.
has anyone done this? i find it much than colonoscopy, which i could not handle.
Problems here are that there’s always the chance of contaminates. Such, did blood come from hemorrhoids vs a tumor? Previously, a similar test was ran where hydrogen peroxide was placed on a shit smear. if there was a reaction then it was deemed positive. Why not just shake dice instead?
what could be seen on chart that invasive biopsy and follow up paps for normal result. not worth the risk. and is any study being done on charts data with lab numbers?
Hi Tina. Thanks for posting. This answer is kind of general because its unclear what chart you’re referring to, but I believe the misinformation, coverup and lies concerning pap smears, colposcopy and the like are so firmly entrenched in the medical establishment that no study showing the true facts, and thus presenting it in a bad light, would ever be made public.
When pap was forced upon women ALL criticism was silenced. You either joined up, shut up, or were bullied into silence. Ever notice how clinics like saying each has “cured” 75% of HPV in their community? Of course, they don’t allow you to question their stats or view their demographics.
So far, there hasn’t been any “comparable” treatment to pap. That’s what they say.
However, the correct question is whether there’s been any “comparable cervical cell sample collection method.” And the answer to that is that there has been, and still is.
In the late 2000’s a San Diego CA based cancer testing company named Trovagene invented and quietly marketed the Trovagene Urine Based HPV Test. I’m very fortunate that my husband, who monitors this site along with me, went on line and found the Trovagene test.
The company’s PR rep told him their test was 93% accurate compared to 53% for pap. My husband verified this by going on line to a UC Berkely med school text.
Trovagene used PCR technology and antibody pickup. Took 2 weeks to run. In 2012 it cost $120US cash and $140US with insurance. They would bill for you. Your results came with a letter that explained the facts.
Now, a couple years later Trovagene discontinued this test. Why? They claimed it was due to “lack of interest.” Of course they NEVER advertised the test. Imagine that. If they had, there’d be a huge rebellion at obgyn offices across the USA. And a even bigger celebration at home.
Pap relies on a computer algorithm to score your “smear.” The part of pap where your cervix is sampled is called the “scrape.” So this test should be called Pap Scrape. The objective is to draw blood on your cervix. That’s how the practitioner knows the single layer of epithelial cells has been removed.
Drawbacks? Beyond what we already know. IF you have the virus on your cervix, and pap is performed, the virus will be introduced into deeper tissue where you cannot fight it off. Same applies to your endocervical canal. There, embedded steel and brass wires inside nylon are part of the “patient friendly” brushes used particularly in colposcopy. Suffice to say you can compare a pap to a small pox vaccination MORE than it can be called a diagnostic test. Because that’s what you’re doing; especially if you’re already infected with HPV.
The computer that scores your “smear” is extremely prone to errors. Both false and positive. Because there’s no way of knowing what’s causing any cellular deviations. Is it hormones, birth control, pregnancy and birth, or adolescence? Or disease? Rarely are these slides ever “re-sampled” by a human pathologist.
The computer has “no idea” literally what to do if the sample it reads does not comply with its menu. And here again is the problem. Should the computer score it as a “repeat”? Or as CIN? There is no compliance on this issue not only industry wide but world wide.
You see, without DNA there’s no way for pap to figure out what’s happening. And the only way DNA is ran is if your smear is positive. And then, only if your md requests and in that case, only if your insurance is willing to pay.
The BS with the blue pap as it’s touted here still has the same limitations.
Anywhere labs analyze blood & urine and can give accurate results. But not with pap. The errors are built into the system. Pap has not been updated since its inception. Here we’re stuck with a test that originated before anybody knew what a computer actually was. And we’re still stuck with it.
The Delphi Screener is the next best thing to Trovagene. Or equal to it.
The best part of my Trovagene test was when my husband went to p/u the specimen box from my doctor’s office. There, another doctor asked why I’d want that vs spreading my legs. My husband quickly ran off 5 good reasons. The doctor just stood there with his gaping mouth. He had nothing to say.
Pap is BS.
In 2016 doc wanted to do another pap. That’s when we found out MediCare does not cover payments for pap!! if the Feds don’t pay for it, then why are we forced?
Uniquely, that day last year I didn’t even drop my pants. I showed the doc a picture of my vagina instead. No muss, no fuss. So long as we’re monogamous, there’s no forcing pap.
Also, FYI. Look up how strong and resistant the HPV virus is. It survives on door knobs, virtually anything you touch it will thrive on and be difficult to kill. So why, I ask, do gyns NOT treat their offices surfaces like a dentist does? Everything in that room should be wiped with 91% alcohol between patients.
HPV survives under fingernails, and also on uncircumcised penis’. So much about not cutting…
Around 2010, an antiviral was tested in Africa against HPV. Actually, the full AIDS women were also full of cervical cancer. The antiviral not only killed off the CC, but it killed off the HPV virus during the act.
I doubt we’ll ever see that antiviral used for HPV.
Too much fun and money doing pap.
Proof in the pudding that doctors are perverts and deviants. Both male and female. Like we didn’t know that already.
Insist that your husband or a friend go with you every time. And have that person looking over the docs shoulder when the vagina exam (pelvic) takes place.
What’s amazing, I want to stress, is that docs are taught the same things I’ve named off here.
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I am soooooo OUTRAGED. The first gynaecologist I went to insisted on giving me a Colposcopy. The second one told me to take off all my clothes in front of him and his female assistant and grabbed both my breasts and made a comment on them… The third one forced me into a D&C and hysteroscopy and the fourth one bullied and threatened me into a totally unnecessary radical hysterectomy and after looking me in the eye and telling me he’d done hundreds of laparoscopic surgeries which I now realize was a BLATANT LIE as he perforated nearby organs, caused severe adhesions, severe nerve damage and I’m still bleeding out FROM the botched surgery over 14 years later.
Greedy gynaecologists fabricate cancer to con women into unnecessary radical hysterectomies for profit and to use as guinea pigs for surgeons in training.. BEWARE of teaching hospital MMC where catastrophic harm and unnecessary surgeries is rampant…
They also scare and traumatize women this procedures look horrible . I’m no capable of getting a pap done I’m 32 and just knowing about it is shocking but, I’m glad I’m not alone I also found out my 24 yr old sis hasn’t gotten a Pap done neither and she’s not planning on getting one anytime soon.
That’s great for the both of you.
You can both draw support from each other.
As Elizabeth suggested, I recommend you read all the available literature on this matter and make the decision that feels right for you.
You may not feel like it now but one day, you will be able to sit in the office and calmly tell them that you are not submitting to any procedure that you don’t want to.
Just tell them you’ve made an informed decision not to screen and if the push cones, you can remind you that it is your right to do so by law.
I prefer to tackle the subject head-on because I want the discussion to be over with as soon as possible, but a while back, I remember reading some great suggestions on here on how to dodge screening questions during the consult.
If they imply that the test is mandatory, one suggestion put forward was saying something like this, “I didn’t realise that these tests are mandatory… if you don’t mind, I’m going to ask my friend (who is an attorney) to check. Then I’ll get back to you”.
By saying this, you could sound completely non-confrontational while still gain the upper hand!
I really hope that this knowledge with regards to your sister’s decision will empower the both of you, moving forward.
Just ask yourselves, what is the worst that can happen if you tell them you’re never planning on having screening? They can do nothing.
Another medical racket rampant in the gynaecological industry and it was a female GP who sold me out for a kickback who deliberately put me in harms way, put my life in jeopardy for personal gain… Do NOT trust doctors especially if they say you have an abnormal Pap smear, if they say your polyp is malignant or they found uterine cancer (well-differentiated adenocarcinoma) and say you need a hysterectomy. These are some of the dirty money-making scams they use to con healthy women into unnecessary radical hysterectomies, and the truly greedy ones will take out healthy lymph nodes and healthy appendixes while you are on the operating table as the bigger the mutilation, the more the mutilator gets paid…… Medical Rape: Coerced Hysterectomy … – Hormones Matter
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/medical-rape-coerced-hysterectomy.
Thank you June for posting this and the link to your fabulous informative website. Women need to be aware that gynecologists are surgeons and that’s what they want to do – perform surgery. And many are not above trickery and lying to get patients into the operating room. I think these doctors rely on women’s tendency to be people pleasers and non-confrontational to bend them to their will. The medical establishment knows it would never get away with this kind of treatment of men. For example, prostate cancer is far more common than any gynecological cancer and yet screening for it is not recommended because it may lead to many of the same harms in women’s cancer screenings that are pushed on us constantly, including false positives leading to unnecessary surgery.
So pleased I came across this forum. I’m due a colposcopy because I’ve had 3 smear tests that all show HPV but no abnormal cells. So why would I need a colposcopy? I just want advice please as I’m sceptical.
Hi Tara,
The smear is a very primitive test and isn’t very accurate – it’s just a scraping of skin cells taken from a very specific part of the cervix, and false positives/negatives are far too common. So my guess is that they’re sending you to colposcopy because they know that cytology is very unreliable.
If you do decide to go, bear in mind that there’s a risk you may be railroaded into ‘see and treat’ – not sure if this is due to cost-cutting, but it means far too many women are undergoing surgery without giving proper informed consent.
After all, a patient who is failed by the system can take legal action which in turn can damage the reputation of the programme, so they are terrified of missing anything ‘suspicious’. But there are no repercussions for putting thousands of healthy women through damaging procedures every year.
Thank you for replying.
I’ve just been to the hospital and left without having the colposcopy. I did ask lots and lots of questions though and said I’d like to think about it. For example, if the colposcopy shows all is fine, but then my next 3 smear tests show I still have HPV, will that lead me into a never ending cycle of smears = colposcopy. Also I asked if the smear detected what strains of HPV I have and she said no. I could’ve had HPV for years and not known until they started the new way of testing in 2019. It all makes me question the whole procedure.