There’s been some forward movement in parts of the medical community due to #MeToo. Much attention has been given to the high profile abuse case involving Larry Nassar, a former doctor for the U.S. Olympic gymnastics program convicted of abusing more than 150 women and girls, and there’s been recognition of the leniency with which doctors accused of assault are treated (source). There has also been some change regarding laws. Last year California became the first state requiring doctors to inform patients before an appointment whether they have been disciplined for sexual assault or other misconduct (source).
The attention, acknowledgement, and efforts to implement changes are improvements, but the movement doesn’t appear to have had much of an impact on women’s routine doctor office visits. Routine visits to the doctor account for many of the encounters women have with the medical community and yet what happens to women in this context seems to have been largely overlooked in the #MeToo movement.
Women are often vulnerable when they visit a doctor and the context in which screening tests and exams are presented increases this vulnerability. Some women believe they need to do what the doctor instructs them to do and others might be concerned if they aren’t compliant they won’t have their health care needs met. Women who are not going to the doctor for the purpose of a pap test or pelvic exam might find themselves having one anyway because their doctor has told them they should have one or that they need one.
Some doctors use coercive tactics, asking the woman about her last pap test or exam before addressing her health needs, instructing her to undress then quickly leaving the room without giving her an opportunity to speak up, and carrying out the pap smear or exam before attending to what she needs. In these cases women have been given no opportunity to consider options or to decline, instead ending up naked with legs splayed, feet up in stirrups, undergoing an invasive exam that they had no intention of having.
All exams and screening tests are elective; women have always had the right to decline pap tests, pelvic exams, and breast exams. Unfortunately some women remain unaware of this fact. Some doctors fail to disclose the fact all tests and exams are elective and instead present screening as if it were a mandate (source).
Meaningful change could be made if doctors were mandated to start disclosing to women that they have a right to informed consent regarding all screening tests and exams. This would help ensure doctors disclose balanced information about the pros and cons of screening and exams, and enable women to make up their own minds.
The mandate would address the coercion women face, such as some doctors’ tendency to withhold healthcare or medications when women question or refuse pelvic exams and pap tests. Rather than prioritizing pap tests or other invasive exams, doctors would need to disclose balanced information about the pros and cons, invite discussion, and respect the woman’s decision if she decides to decline.
Mandating doctors to disclose women’s right to informed consent would better equip women with the means to protect themselves from sexual abuse when attempting to seek health care. Currently women are often not offered information or a choice, leaving them without any way to protect themselves from non-consensual, penetrative exams.
Until these changes become visible it seems the #MeToo movement has not yet reached the doctor’s office.
More on this topic:
Informed consent for pap smears missing
Pap tests are not mandatory
The other side of the speculum: A male doctor’s point of view
What some male doctors do when women say no
Media messages about screening
Sexual abuse under guise of healthcare
forwomenseyesonly 
The #metoo movement needs to reach the doctors office.
Dr V. and his practice nurse G.G. are both culpable of sexual assault. In fact all those connected to the NHS cervical screening programme are culpable of sexual assault.
Historically women were given no choice whether they had smears or not. Like me, they have been tricked, conned or just plain bullied into having smears. The invitations that were posted out made it seem like getting smears was mandatory for all women.
That is why PHE are panicky about insisting smears are a women’s choice. They know how the programme was operated. It operated like this unquestioned for about 30 years.
I wonder how many NHS doctors should have their names recorded on the #metoo website. The numbers must be in the thousands.
Linda while I agree with everything you said..I think PHE have started announcing it’s a choice and always has been to try and ward off legal action. Yes women have been treated appallingly and we know it but by insisting oh it’s a choice……
The word is getting out online it’s a choice and a pretty useless test at that
Someone posted a template opt out letter online
I think the medics are running scared…
Honestly there can’t be consent if there’s a power dynamic and there’s almost always is because from a very young age we’re made to see doctors as ‘experts’ and authority figures and not ourselves. Plus and I think this is more important, there needs to be a full body yes. Lets say theres no coersion but, if a pap test is something a patient only chooses when their health/survival is concerned, they’re agreeing to a non-consensual pap and not genuinely consenting to one.
I had an idea for something it might be interesting to feature on this site: do readers have information regarding healthcare providers who *don’t* push paps/pelvic exams, or at least, respect their patients’ decision to opt out?? Is it too optimistic to even imagine that doctors like this exist??
It might be nice to put together a state-by-state database of said providers. I’ve heard of people in the LGBTQ community putting together lists of providers who they had positive experiences with. This would be the same thing. I have lived in the Boston area for 11 years and have not had any success finding a healthcare provider I can work with, though at the age of 33, I would like to.
I would *LOVE* to have something like that available! I’ve had a few doctors in the past who saw me for something specific, or followed me for something specific, who never pushed paps (I left the question on the form blank, and they didn’t ask). Much more often, when I leave it blank, I have paps pushed on me to the near exclusion of the problem for which I came in. Look: If I wanted a Public Service Announcement about paps, I’d turn on a TV or pick up a pamphlet. If I’m seeing a doctor, I want something treated – not an unreliable test for a rare cancer hard-sold to me, along with the provider’s insistence that they have some right to get into my pants without my consent – using coercion at least.
It’s not practical to see every provider in your area! A city such as Boston has plenty of providers, certainly, but multiply that out by about $150-$200 per visit, that’s a big chunk of change with a lot of aggravation. If you live in a rural area, such as I do, I don’t have nearly as many to choose from, but I’m looking at anything from 30-70 miles one-way to see them, with all the time, expense, and the cost of the visit. The alternative is to leave my diabetes untreated, and die a pretty gruesome death within 5-10 years.
BTW: I made a mistake. The reply below is me BH, the original poster of this comment. I accidentally put my email in the name field.
Just wanted to pipe up here. I’m in the US by the way. My last birth was a home birth, and during my pregnancy I discovered, much to my pleasant surprise that at least two midwives in my area do gentle smear tests for any woman that might be worried about cervical cancer or interested in that test. They offer self-testing first, but if you opt to have them do it, I know for a fact that they are truly good at what they do. I had PTSD from my first pap and pregnancy (both happened at the same time). I didn’t think I would get a cervical exam during my home birth, and the midwife said it was unnecessary and optional. Towards the end, after a long labor I opted for one. She was amazing, just amazing. I could never imagine a hospital doctor being so sensitive and humane. So people like this do exist, who do their job as a caregiver by actually giving you a choice and care. It would truly be amazing to have a database for people and doctors like that, as well as you say, a list of ones that are horrible! I’ve sworn off paps myself, I’d rather die of cervical cancer than suicide, but I know plenty of women who still do get these tests.
Somehow, my original reply to this got deleted.
I meant to write that I agree it would be very difficult to formally survey all providers in any area. I meant that maybe this site could informally ask women to write in with their informal experiences about how they were treated in various healthcare settings in regards to paps/pelvic exams and publish a compilation of responses.
I actually got this idea from a post on a site called “Fearless Formula Feeder”–not looking to get into a debate about breast/bottlefeeding but keep in mind that some women with body image/trauma issues may have the same anxiety around gyn exams as they do around breastfeeding, particularly as it is coercively pushed in modern maternity wards. The site had a list state-by-state of various hospitals with reader comments about whether or not their feeding decisions for their children were respected. I was thinking this could be a similar thing.
If anyone here is following “The Handmaid’s Tale” TV show, the most recent one (Season 3, Episode 9 “Heroic”) has June, our heroine, really pushed off-center when she’s in the hospital under orders to stay with someone who is brain-dead until her baby comes. It’s become obvious that women, especially handmaids, are nothing more than life-support systems for a (functional) reproductive system in this dysphoric near-future – which has all women pitted against each other by roles and competition for positions to which they are assigned. After the baby is born by C-section, the woman, who is apparently brain-dead, is essentially forgotten – taken off life support, and minimally cared for since she’s not dead.
She is sitting in this hospital room, and a lot of little girls go by. Eventually she talks to one, and she finds out in another conversation that the girls are there for their menarche exam – which includes medically deflowering the girls who’ve passed menarche. From talking to the girl, her goal in life is to get married and have babies. Note that having babies has become a problem in this society, presumably from the nuclear fallout they’ve experienced, but they cannot test the sperm count of the men. June has decided that saving children from this life is to become her goal in the future.
It’s clear to me that the menarche exams happen in wealthy countries today – people are encouraged to bring their preteen and teenaged daughters for “exams” even before menarche – but the pelvic exam is supposedly “usually” left until later. They’re still examined and seen as far as how far into menarche they are – or are not. I don’t see much of a difference.
Oh yeah, the handmaids are ritually raped monthly by their assigned “commander” and his wife – they’ve got nothing to say about their bodies either, and are pregnancy tested a few days later, and given a proscribed prenatal regimen. Again, I don’t see this as much different than reality – even though you’re supposed to be able to give “informed consent” – but that won’t stop them from harping and pressuring you when you seek any other medical care – ignoring the problem for which you’re there.
So another perverted doctor has been outed. There was an article on the news last night featuring a doctor called Manish Shar. Apparently this dirty old man has been performing dozens of smear tests and two finger rapes on all of his female patients, including young teenagers. He has been convicted of 23 accounts of sexual assault.
The problem with the British Cervical Screening Programme is that it not only has been a perfect cover for perverted doctors but it has actively encouraged this behaviour due to the manner it has been carried out over the past thirty years.
How many more doctors are out there currently getting away with performing loads of unnecessary smear tests on their female patients to get their perverted kicks.
I believed Dr V raped me. I was a young woman coming into his consultation room not knowing what he was planning for me. He should have given me the option. he could have said go home and have a think about it. But no. He was determined to do one right there and then. I was like a lamb to slaughter.
My head spins with the thought it is still happening to thousands of women up and down the country. In fact all over the world. It is a huge big scandal that has been going on for far too long with no end in sight.
Apparently he invoked the memory of Jade Goody – which is what cervical screening publicity does all the time.
Should any medic mention smears to me now I’d wipe the floor with them. Should they mention Jade and smears my reply would be…of course! Smears REALLY helped her!!
This screening programme is a pervert’s dream. Opportunistic screening is not only encouraged, it is rewarded and we all know how much pressure is put on us to screen, which in my opinion amounts to coercion and negates consent. Imagine any other scenario where a woman is put under considerable pressure to remove her underwear and let a complete stranger penetrate her body. All done of course for her own good, endorsed by the medical profession, the government and the majority of the brainwashed public.
Chrissy and Kat – I’ve been thinking long and hard about this, preparing me for my annual checkup for my diabetes and thyroid issues – wherein opportunistic screening is pushed, to the near-exclusion of the actual issues. Yes, it feels like I should change my name to “the life support system for cervix #814230968” – as that seems to be their interest.
I’ve got all sorts of information that CC is a rare disorder. Diabetes, OTOH, is in the top 10 causes of death. However, to get treatment, I must submit myself for penetration and groping. If the pap comes back abnormal, I find the follow-on procedures less acceptable – it’s one thing to be penetrated and hurt some – it’s quite another to have them rip pieces of a very sensitive area off without anesthesia, or to have parts amputated. I would expect the pressure and coercion to increase after a pap – with a notoriously-high false positive rate.
This falls into another area. The first thing I remember about being alive was an act of sexual assault. I had more throughout my childhood, but their “reasons” given went from “This is for your own good – teaching you how to please a man (your future husband)” to “This is chasing the demons out” (as evidenced by screams, from a certified-insane perpetrator) coupled with a hefty dose of “It’s why we feed you” or “I guess I’ll let you live another day”.
So, while I won’t die of diabetes tomorrow of denied treatment, submitting to it is certainly an implied requirement of getting continued treatment.
I’ve had a lot of therapy on the topic, and I’m usually more-or-less okay with what happened in the past. A good bit of that CBT I received is based on the fact that I’m an adult now, I can successfully refuse or fight it off, and have legal recourses. If, as they try to present, I have no choice in whether or not they penetrate me with a speculum/fingers, that belies all of the therapy. It was okay while it lasted. As I get older, I expect to be given less choice and more necessity of getting medical treatment. The concepts of bodily integrity, bodily autonomy, consent just fly out the window if I accept that. This takes me to a very dark place.
The probability of getting CC in a lifetime is 0.65% in the US. I cannot say for sure what the probability is of demons living in my body. I personally don’t believe they exist, but some others put a moderately-high probability on that. Like I can look at the statistics and disbelieve CC is going to suddenly explode in my body, it would be considered pathological for someone to believe demons were taking over their body. With demons, it’s cause for mental health intervention: With CC it’s considered “being responsible”. To WHOM?
At the same time, if I permit someone to penetrate my body with fingers and or an object (speculum, brush), I will experience it as another rape. According to RAINN.ORG (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network), about 16% of rape victims attempt suicide over the next year. If we figure about 1/3 succeed, that gives about a 5% chance of dying. OTOH, cancer.gov gives me a 0.05% chance of being diagnosed with CC in the next 5 years and a 0.02% chance of death of CC. And, acquiescing to it one time does not let me off the hook for the next times (okay, 3 years from now, best case). And, we won’t mention the unpleasantness of reliving this over and over, and considering that it WILL happen again.
Now, I’m an adult and I’m not powerless. Although I’ve spent a ridiculous amount of time researching these things and finding others, I’ve got the ammo now to let them have it when they bring up the pap crap in lieu of actual medical issues. I’ll get them to document that they’ve refused me treatment because I won’t accept an optional cancer screening – involving penetration. Then take it to the media. I wonder how the person on the street will accept it under these terms?
Note that I’m in the US. That means I’m paying by the minute to let ’em have it.
I am posting up this link to natural treatments for HPV infection because I know so many women are visiting this website stressed out about bad pap test results or just not wanting to even visit the doctor for any reason.
https://aor.ca/understanding-natural-treatments-for-cervical-dysplasia/
Some of the ideas people have used was getting the green tea extract cream but couldn’t find it or buy it. For inside green tea extract capsule contents can be put into melted coconut oil and for outside mix it in petroleum jelly. Of course vitamin and other supplements are very important.
It would be nice if something happened and made the area of medicine more transparent and accountable. So far, it is almost exclusively a closed ranks elite club, with very rare exceptions who do speak out, act in the interests of patients and thus actually save lives, not just make money.
Just in today’s Australian news: it has finally been revealed that one doctor endangered lives of 1500 patients by botching endoscopies and colonoscopies. Medical authorities knew about it since 2018 yet chose to keep the patients in the dark. Thanks to one decent doctor, the botched practice was exposed. Unfortunately, the medical authorities will most likely find 1001 reasons why it’s not the system fault. The negligent doctors will probably live the rest of his life in luxury, while his patients will be suffering and dying.
So much for cancer screening! Submit to an extremely invasive procedure, get it botched, and then, if you are lucky, the authorities will admit the error and tell you to just undergo the torture again.
If you look at cultural practices reported in the news, it appears that the shoddy treatment of women is endemic across all medical faculties across the NHS.
The Barrow-in-Furness and Shrewsbury and Telford scandals (where women were degraded, subjected to excruciating and unneccessary pain, and not listened to, during childbirth); the vaginal mesh scandals; cervical and breast screening (not respecting informed consent).
Even in the rare cases where a pelvic exam may be requested independently of screening by a woman for diagnosing endometriosis for instance, I have read of women being dismissed and told to endure painful periods that interfere with daily lives because “it’s just part and parcel of being a woman”.
When are the majority of the general public and the pro-screeners going to get it? The medical profession as a whole, is not truly interested in helping women, and that is the truth.
“Even in the rare cases where a pelvic exam may be requested independently of screening by a woman for diagnosing endometriosis for instance, I have read of women being dismissed and told to endure painful periods that interfere with daily lives because “it’s just part and parcel of being a woman”.
I have personal experience with this. I avoided routine doctors visits for years in order to get out of pap smears. The one time I consented to an exam for pelvic pain and irregular bleeding which I let go for a *couple of years* (which I accept responsibility for), I was sent to get two ultrasounds and when nothing showed up, I was basically told that it was “hormones” or maybe I was imagining it. It would have been nice if they could have figured out it was just hormones before they ordered testing–one of the ultrasounds was kind of invasive.
Needless to say, unless I get pregnant, I’ll never go in for Ob/Gyn care again.
I can relate to this too.
I went to the doctor with irregular bleeding and spotting and asked for blood tests as due to my age I believed it could be hormonal.
This was refused as being unnecessary and I was told “You are having a smear now”. I had been avoiding smears and they knew this as there were notes on my files that I had refused screening at last visits.
I felt like I had to have one as I had gone for help. After the smear I was told I would be booked in to a specialist and for a scan. I said a scan was fine and the doctor said ‘You know it will be an internal scan’
The smear test was normal and I heard nothing more for 9 months. In the end I rang the doctor and said I wanted to go private and have an external pelvic scan only (not the internal one). She said ok but then when I went for the scan they said ‘We have you down for an internal scan as well’. I flat out refused and said I am only having the external one which they were ok about after a little discussion.
Everything was normal and that was it, no follow up of any kind.
Just received a text from doctors office that I’m due to come in for a recall smear (?!). Zero chance of that happening as this experience has shown that my doctor just wants to tick off the smear and has zero interest in any other follow up NON INVASIVE support or care.
Bracing myself for the inevitable follow up call regarding the smear!!
Bec – Tell them that after researching all the evidence, you have made an informed decision to opt out of all cervical screening from now on.
No more discussion required.
Oh, and you might be tempted to let your doctor know how disappointed you were that an issue that was causing you significant discomfort and affecting your quality of life, was basically ignored and not taken seriously (I know I would be!).
If your surgery has a website, you might be tempted to leave a review 😉
It would be great if someone made a documentary about the info on this site. Has anyone here contacted any filmmakers? I was watching an interview with Kirby Dick and Amy Ziering who make award winning and high profile documentaries including “The Hunting Ground” and “The invisible War” and “The Bleeding Edge”. They gave an email address at the end of the interview. Would people here be interested in sending them info?
Hi ladies Just a thought did you know that if a petition is opened and that petition acquires 100,000 signatures that it has to be heard in the Houses of Parliament we all know how our gp ‘s convieniently forget to mention informed consent but a petition to state that They must conform to this “ even though they are supposed to do this by law” or they will leave themselves open to legal charges I think this will be decisive in the way we are treated
The root of the problem lies with the government itself – their policies are the reason that GP’s and their pushy nurses behave so badly. The national targets & incentives mean that practices are rewarded for achieving high uptake and penalised when they fail to.
Hi Kate uk. If this is the case then instead of complaining and getting angry at clinical staff we should switch targets and aim at the government we could start by lobbying your local mp and stating our grievances over this mistreatment under the guise of medical care there is strength in numbers if they realise the number of women who are negatively impacted by this behaviour they may feel compelled to change tact
Helper I tried this with my MP and never got a reply back! Smears are sacred sadly.
I wonder whether a petition might help to make changes? Something around ensuring that women give informed consent to screen by being informed about the potential for false positives and the potential impact of lletz by their GP in person (not just in the fine print of a leaflet), and for incentive payments to be removed. I also think a push for self-testing should be in there too and that would probably encourage people to sign. I am seeing more and more people who have realised the physical and mental trauma they have experiences as a result of unnecessary colposcopy and lletz. Maybe something around making screening more ‘fit for purpose’ and improving access for those who want to screen.
I agree. I doubt it will help.
The standard response will be, “you have the right to consent to, or refuse as you see fit, however it is recommended”.
Sad to say but the only way I see things changing is with increasing numbers of women refusing the test.
It isn’t easy to stand up to a practice nurse or GP when they are exerting pressure however, legally speaking (for the time being anyway), if you explicitly refuse a screening test, they can’t do anything. That is when you take the power away from them.
If they try witholding meds or the like, I advise following their complaints procedure and escalate it to the GMC if nothing happens. My guess is that most GPs will back down before it gets to that point.
However, I do see merit in a petition in support of a self-testing HPV kit, and I think this is something that could gain traction, even among some of the more moderate factions of the screening fanatics.
I think it would be even more beneficial during a pandemic when access to surgeries is restricted and before the GPs and nurses get the opportunity to get everyone back into the office.
The likes of Jo’s To$$ers bemoaning lack of access to screening couldn’t really complain about this one, because with a self-test option, women could screen without having to unnecessarily expose themselves to Covid by attending the doctor’s office.
Use their own arguments against them, so to speak.
I really think a petition for self-testing HPV kits could be worthwhile during this time.
This kind of treatment will not stop until women stand their ground and tell them NO !!!!
Listen women it is your body and belongs to NO ONE ELSE but you.
Hi Gang.
I have once again received an ‘invitation’ in the post for cervical screening. It came despite the fact I formally opted out a few years ago.
I’m afraid its triggered me again. Thank God for this website so I can blow off some steam.
It says its my choice to screen all very well but no doubt I will receive a ‘reminder’ in several weeks time and probably after that a phone call from the practice nurse.
They probably think it would be easy for me to ‘ignore’ two invites but much harder for me to ignore a nurses direct phone call.
They don’t know me very well –
Thirty years ago I was a young insecure young woman who said yes to everything and went along with their ‘demands.’
I was led to believe smear tests were mandatory for all women and if I also wanted the pill there was no getting out of them.
They ruined my life – as I had to endure being regularly being sexually assaulted by various members of the NHS. I experienced each smear as a gross invasion of my privacy, my body, my soul. I thought my private parts belonged to the NHS. Not one of them ever mentioned it was up to me whether I wanted them or not. They couldn’t even afford that basic human right back in their hey day.
I had only ever been with my husband and He only with me. They could have explained I was probably only low risk and once again that I should choose to have them or not …. but no, they didn’t … wouldn’t.
It was only stumbling across this site that set me free from their tyranny.
In Eireland over the past few days their government has apologised to survivors of the mother and baby houses scandal. They have also apologised for the fact that women have been looked down in general by government, church and society and treated like second class citizens throughout most of Irish history.
This was very big of them to do this.
I wonder if the British government and the NHS will ever be forced to apologise for the manner in which the British cervical screening programme was operated.
They took away women’s basic human rights to fully operate this programme and get the numbers they needed for it to be a sucess.
Fudged statistics, lies, some, truths, some half truths – all hodgpodged together to make women submit to this vile examination. And everyone in the NhS and the then Conservative government went along with it.
I’m 56 now. I’m much more in control of myself and my body. No one does anything to me I haven’t sanctioned. I’m strong and I’m determined and not afraid to be rude or aggressive to doctors or their ugly hearted practice nurses. They simply won’t get the better of me anymore.
I urge the young women who find this forum to be strong. Be firm. Be safe. Don’t go through what the older members of this forum went through.
To day I live my life knowing I am a sexual assault survivor – a survivor of the British Cervical Screening Programme. I wouldn’t want for you to have to live like this too.
My love and best wishes to all who go on this forum who have helped me over the years – Eliz, Ada, Kat, apol queen, Chrissy and all you others.
Thank you all
Linda
x
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Linda what you went through at the hands of the NHS was unconscionable. And the fact that they sent you a reminder notice after you opted out makes my blood boil. Can you imagine men being treated this way? I’m so glad you’re now strong, assertive and able to stand up for yourself and by sharing your experience you’re helping others to do the same. I’m in the US so no NHS here, but our profit-driven system is a force that leads to tremendous pressure for women to have gynecological exams as part of their routine health care. Another factor is that doctors are trained that way. I actually just returned from an appointment with a new doctor, which I’ll share the experience in another post – but I feel like I was able to make my voice heard, and the source of my strength and confidence was you and the other regular posters here.
Judy – I’m also in the US, and trying to refuse these exams when seeing a doctor for an actual medical problem became a long pressure to have the exam, even with my constant refusal, and nothing at all about the actual medical problems for which I came in. I eventually complained, and nothing was done. They handled me with kid gloves the next year, didn’t pressure too much, especially having a talk with a clinical manager before the medical professionals.
They have a “Patients Bill of Rights” prominently posted at the desk, and they give one out. That includes the right to refuse any care that’s been proposed. Evidently, they’re “just kidding” when it comes to penetrating someone’s vagina and/or anus.
I’ve gotten some more tools to assert my right to say “no” to this, and have more ability to use it. Sadly, it took me deciding that refusing THIS is worth more than not having treatment for my physical conditions for a time. It won’t be that long, as I can get care otherwise.
Linda so sorry this has happened… again!! I hope you complain and state again you want NO further contact from either the practice or the screening HQA! Thinking of you x
Linda, thanks for your mention! It got me wondering, I wonder what policy is on opted out women and does it vary in districts? I opted out in 2015, after receiving yet another unwanted “invitation “. I wasn’t even informed then about the drawbacks to this test, I just decided I had enough and wanted an end to the bombardment and harassment so took to the internet where you found me on another site and told me about FWEO ( so glad you did)!
At 56, I’d be in 5 year recall so “due” again last year, I never had an “invitation “ or even a letter from my practice, I heard some practice send a letter reminding you of your opt out status and trying to get you back. And this is allowed as it’s not a formal “invitation “ Let us know what you decide to do, and hope you feel better soon xxx
Hi Linda I have read many of the women’s story’s including yours back from when you first came to the site, I could almost feel your pain, but as I read on I could see the healing take place and your strength return ,your latest posts are full of defiance be confident and go to your surgery demand to see the practice nurse let her know that you have opted out and do not appreciate being hounded for screening do not sit down remain standing tell her you will hold her personally responsible for this harassment if it happens again and then turn and leave. victory will be yours. Hugs xx
Hi Jules. Thanks for your comments.
I grew strong writing the books. Firsty assembling the stories from the women here. My friend Pam knows a lot of people on face book and she got all the stories for me for my second book. I was touched by all their stories. So many women have things to tell about smear tests but they were never allowed a voice.
I love this website. I love the people here. They really helped me when I needed them.
I talk about being firm and aggressive. I recommend being firm with doctors but never aggressive. You might come worse off. I write like that because i’m a bit of a drama queen.and write like that. Just look after yourself – you know what I mean.
linda
x
Hi ladies. This came to me while I was doing a puzzle quiz why not try to get all the different sites that are opposed to screening and unite them to form one . This could be a called. Choice. Which would stand for constant harassment over intimate clinical exams. If this achieved a substantial following we could appoint a spokes person. I would propose mr rob music if his position at the migraine place doesent work out he would be in charge of clinical consent enforcement this would be known within the organisation as treatment without authorisation today this would be a abbreviated so mr music would become known as chief twat. The last bit was a joke Love and hugs to all xx
Jules… luvvin this brilliant idea!
Hi!
I think it would be amazing if there was a site that collects together other sites that talk about informed consent in women’s reproductive healthcare. I’ve been looking around and sites like that are hard to find, I only found some articles, and sites that have been pointed out in this forum.
It’s funny that even when I type in “pap smears unnecessary” or something like that on Google, Google automatically tries to correct it to”Did you mean: necessary?”. It is itself suspicious that you can find info about how you should only screen for more common cancers (like skin or lung) if you are at high or increased risk, but apparently, you have to screen for a rare cancer like cervical for most of your life no matter what your risks are.
Anyways, I would really like it if there was a site like what you wrote about. It would be nice if there was a site that collected articles and studies that talk about similar things as well.
Oh dear ladies it’s started! Cervical hysteria week in UK And today hysterical daily fail article that so many will die and how awful yet again women’s health is being sidelined…..
Yes, up to 600 000 women ‘at risk of cervical cancer’ apparently. I saw another petition recently for an annual screening because ‘so many daughters, wives and granddaughters are dying needlessly and enough is enough’ and because ‘it can strike so quickly and is usually too late once it’s been detected’. The level of conviction that women are dropping like flies, cut down by marauding cervical cells is crazy. Where is the balanced, factual information?! I really think it is a form of mass hysteria, but I suppose it’s fuelled by the number of women who have had colposcopy and lletz and think they all narrowly escaped with their lives.
Gem so true! One poster said, smears should be prioritised because young women are dying through being left to die un smeared and their kids are orphans but covid kills mainly old ppl! So as I said, are old lives less valuable?? The red arrows I’m getting are hilarious
And where is their evidence of ‘all these’ young women who are dying?! Versus the 70 000 dead from coronavirus. I despair. I think I saw one comment that said ‘so many more women die from cervical cancer than die from coronavirus’, it’s just the realm of alternative facts and fake news. Interesting that in the article Jo’s Trust stated that cc is rare and slow-growing.
This comment made me really sad “Go get your smears ladies, pandemic or not. I had mine in Nov. Three weeks later I was back in for a colposcopy and biopsies, in two days I’m in again to have a large chunk of my cervix cut out. If I’d not gone to that first appointment I’d have never known what was going on down there. The nurse doing your smear will take all necessary precautions against covid. Dont let that be the reason you don’t go”. And the responses “Well said, so important”. I wonder if she had any idea when she signed up for screening about the true prevalence of cervical cancer and the number of false positives and unnecessary procedures that are an in-built facet of the programme.
I went through the Daily Mail’s Health section and couldn’t find the article, so hopefully these people are starting to be recognised for the hysterical bonkers fanatics that they are and the article has been dumped in the irrelevant section.
I know I should pity these women but I don’t. I despise them and have nothing but contempt for them. All it takes is for one senior minister to listen to them. They pose a massive risk to all our human rights and civil liberties as women. They are a hard right fanatic’s wet dream.
It’s utterly ridiculous! In the US, the nation for which I have hard numbers, about 4100 women die of CC per year, with about 14,000 diagnosed – out of ~320,000,000 people! (Of which about half were born with cervixes) A couple of days ago, we had 4100+ people die of COVID nationally, and yesterday ~3600. Yes, as many people are dying PER DAY of COVID as die per year of CC, and people in the US often refuse to wear masks, refuse to wear them properly, or refuse to socially distance and even go to “super-spreader events” – and that’s “their right”. At the same time, women “cannot refuse a smear”, or have her actual health care threatened, or at the very least labeled “irresponsible”. The difference is COVID is spread by casual contact/breathing in water droplets with viruses, while catching HPV leading to CC requires contact with her cervix.
That includes inhaling droplets in the waiting room to get your smear, or the follow-on treatments.
Hi ladies, Myself and Jules were wondering if you could help us out , we have read of a hpv home test is this available in the uk . As I am 24 and a half ,depending on corona I may get my first pap demand soon if we can test and come up hpv minus not only would we gain peace of mind but we would have a solid defence against insistent gp’s,we don’t believe we are a high risk as I have only been intimate with three and Jules with two ( i did ask her if I could mention her number) if this is so what does the test consist of is it a pee test or a self swab and where do you send it
Superdrug UK offer a home test HPV kit for around £50, it’s a long swab you insert ad send to their lab, I believe you get a Superdrug account your results are sent to ?! Hope this helps
As far as I am aware, HPV testing isn’t generally recommended for women under 30 because HPV status in these women is usually transient, due to developmental changes etc.
It is up to you though – someone on here mentioned that it has been reported that on average 60% of 25 – 30 year olds test negative for HPV, but it is something I would research first, because a positive reading may cause unnecessary worry.
When it comes to refusing the invitation, I recommend writing to the screening authority informing them that you have made the decision to opt out. Try to avoid giving them a reason and keep it brief.
The screening authority will write to your GP to ask that your name is removed from the list.
If they become intransigient, you could threaten them with a complaint and getting the Data Protection commissioner involved, as according to GDPR, I don’t think they legally have the right to keep you in the programme and send you the reminders if you have explicitly chosen to opt out but document everything.
Good luck.
In the US about 33,000 men die of prostate cancer each year – yet screening for this cancer is generally not recommended. The reason being that it often leads to false positives, painful invasive biopsies, unnecessary surgery and diagnosis of a cancer that may never have bothered a man during his lifetime. So basically it has very similar drawbacks as pap smears (and mammograms too for that matter) yet woman are coerced and cajoled to have this screening at every turn. I would encourage women to arm themselves with the stats for both kinds of cancer (prostate and cervical) – the deaths in the UK and other countries likely are similar in proportion to their populations – and vocalize them loudly and often anytime they are pressured to have a smear. Last week I told a new doctor “its perfectly ok for men to decline prostate cancer screening due to the harms involved” and must say he did seem to take it in and reflect on it a bit.
600,000 at risk of cc ,this info must of been released by the same bunch that said over 5000 contract it each year in the uk when we all know this figure is total fabrication to frighten women into the program .I think the statestition who came up with this number needs to purchase a new calculator and sling his abacus in the bin
Yes, where did that 5000 figure come from? I see it quoted at every turn and it’s in all the NHS literature and on all the charity websites. I think I once saw someone saying the academic who originally cited it had gone back on it but I can’t seem to find a source for that.
Gem, that figure was plucked from an article written back in 2004 – a load of B.S. churned out by a group of screening enthusiasts in response to other papers that claimed – quite rightly – that the financial cost of ‘prevention’ was far too high.
Of course if they’d taken the time to carry out clinical trials they may have discovered how unreliable and harmful the test was and never introduced the programme. But of course it was rushed in to win the pink vote.
Without a thorough RCT we can never know how effective or safe any medical intervention is.
Thank you Kate. Honestly, it’s so disturbing to see how many women just sign up unquestioningly to this unethical programme. I’ve been disturbed this week to see the many stories shared by women who are so ‘thankful’ to be missing half their cervix and encouraging others to make sure they put themselves at the same risk without giving it a second thought. It’s horrible.
On itv London news tonight they announced another 1610 deaths from corona nationwide after this 3 ladies came on to tell everybody they had cervical cancer after delayed screening and were urging all to get screened they were backed up by jo’s Trust saying the same almost threw up my lasagna surely priorities should rule at the moment i feel sorry for these women but it looks like the pink push has started even at this dark time
Yeah. In the US, some of our worst days so far we’ve had a daily death rate of COVID as high as the yearly death rate from CC. Going into a hospital to get a screening or an all-so-important follow-on procedure seems like the shortcut to becoming a COVID statistic! But, you know, we’ve got to be kept in line by our vaginas…
“Good news. She isn’t going to die of cervical cancer in the future! She died of COVID. Isn’t that great!”
This seems to have more in common with prison rape than it does any rational, sensible, medical intervention.
Beth the situation is unbelievable in the US where on the one hand, we hear so much about our out of control health care costs. I saw a new doctor last week about my blood pressure and the post-visit summary mentions twice the recommendation to see a gynecologist (once in all caps!) along with a list of suggested practices. The doctor did, to his credit, write “will hold off for now.” I thought about going elsewhere but as you know it would just be more of the same. This doctor did at least listen to my concerns and make eye contact so as a matter of practicality (I need my blood pressure meds) I feel like I can work with him. I’m fortunate to live in an area with many physician practices all competing with each other for patients (especially insured patients) so don’t think I’ll run into the threat of being dropped if I don’t comply. Like you I have tools to use against the pressure and coercion but we should be able to go to a medical appointment for a chronic health problem without feeling like we’re going into battle!
Judy – you’re right. It is quite unbelievable when at the same time we’re hearing of out-of-control healthcare costs, and overuse – overdiagnosis and overtreatment, while we know that the pap test is almost the poster child for starting cascades of overuse. At the same time, the message is “get your paps!”, even to the point of derailing the rest of healthcare, or making a patient prepare for battle – as in coercion to penetrate her vagina and anus – at every visit. Among other things, this takes time, and up-codes the visit as it takes more time when they spend 20 minutes on pap harassment.
Yes, this is a cervical awareness/prevention/ hysteria week!!
And the nhs ‘marketing campaign’ for this one, featuring the three cats, was truly offensive even by their own abysmally awful standards. The single minded determination to assert that it’s silly women being too embarrassed to test seems to have been taken a step further here, actually down to the specifics of waxing – does it never occur to them that women have become rather better informed about the limitations and potential harms of this unreliable and invasive test over the many years that they have failed to improve it whilst still seeking to impose it (not ever too bothered by the concept of informed consent). Or do they really believe we’re that stupid?!
Suzette – It’s quite clear that these campaigns are becoming increasingly desperate, which shows the lengths they feel they are having to go to, to get women to comply. And that does give me some hope. I didn’t see many supporters of this campaign online. It seemes that most women were indifferent to them. I’ve seen a few ridiculing them as well.
I think the smear campaign (no pun intended) is now reaching saturation levels and women are growing tired of them.
Gem , when you think about it, it’s not so much women signing up to the programme, we are automatically conscripted onto it at 24 and a half! To withdraw we have to opt out from what we never asked to be put into! To remind all you younger ladies anticipating your first summons, you can absolutely opt out and they have to respect this and opt you out, though your surgery may try to persuade you back every so often!!
Yes, I completely agree. Conscripted is a good term for it! And now school children are being groomed into accepting their summons via school PSHE lessons which focus solely on ‘making young people aware of the importance of the test’.
Hi gem, That figure of 5000 that keeps popping up is from a report in 2004 by prof. Julian peto dsc that was made for publication in the lancet. Hope this helps
A belated thank you Helper x
On a positive note, recently set up a Twitter account and noticed Jo’s To$$ers on there. I’m genuinely surprised by how few messages they get in response to their nonsense, which is excellent to see.
I’m sure I’ve seen a few posters from here on there. For those of you there, are our messages linked to the odious Jo’s To$$ers account (sorry, still trying to get grips with Twitter)? If so, we could have a lot of fun here 😀
AQ yes, I’m there as myself lol…let the fun begin
I’m there and have a lot of fun with Jo’s Tosh and also Eve Appeal.
You’re right, Jo’s in particular get very little engagement although they did used to get a bit more.
I’m assuming people are just tired of their nonsense.
Ha yes! I’ve seen you Kat 😀 and Caroline. In case you’re wondering, I’m the newbie on the block 😉
I got the impression that Eve’s cage was well and truly rattled by that complaint, hence the OTT response.
Hi kat , thanks for the info. Helper and Jules
Thanks to you to. Aq
Just another point I’d raise, when I formally opted out of screening, I was still later asked about it (albeit, politely) by two GPs.
So when you opt out, it might be a good idea to email, or write to your GP confirming your decision as well and ask that your decision to opt out is noted in your file.
Again, I wouldn’t personally recommend giving them too much details – just that you have made an informed decision to opt out.
Articulating your thoughts on paper might help you in the first instance, rather than having to explain 1:1 to your doctor should he/ she raise the question.
Also, having this documented in writing might help a bit and I’d advise you to keep a copy of the letter.
You may actually be surprised (as I was), because not all doctors are confrontational on the matter.
Hi ladies, Jules and myself have decided not to self test for hpv just yet , it looks like aq was right about the results on females under 30 years old . So we will wait until we reach this age before we do it . I have been on loads of medical sites looking for anything that might be of use here and haven’t come across anything you ladies haven’t covered already except some of these sites mention a rectovaginal test, what the hell are they looking for up there ( I had a bf who tried this once and told him if he tried anything like that again his life would be in danger) it seems there is no depth to their depravity . If I ever get sent my first invite , it looks like I will have to fight them off for now until I opt out . Jules has suggested remaining calm and if it is mentioned to refuse politely if the doctor tries to push Iam to say “ I think you may need to read up on the latest reccomendations released by the gmc with regards to patient refusals which are to be respected“,she says mentioning this will put them on alert because they will know you have been reading up on matters. Love to all xx.
The standard Bimanual exam has a rectal component. One of the complaints about this whole testing frenzy is that many women “allow” their doctor to do intimate procedures which they will not allow their partners or husbands to do. If it’s too intrusive to allow a loved-one to do, how the heck is it acceptable for a physician to do, when just telling her “now I’m going to…”, and somehow that qualifies as “consent”?
The whole colonscopy push too is for an even-more invasive test, with a “waking sedation”. Part of what I’m afraid of is that when I don’t have my brains about me, I will reflexively fight back – when an assault on any medical professional in the course of their duty is a felony. I’d hate to “wake up” and have them say, “We have good news and bad news. The good news is that you’re free of colon cancer. The bad news is that you’re under arrest for a felony that will keep you in prison for the rest of your life.”
Hi ladies, So just to clarify. 1. You are to attend your surgery upon demand . 2. You are to disrobe on command. 3. You are to allow your breasts to be fondled and nipples tweaked. For an inaccurate test . 4. You are then placed into a vulnerable , humiliating position for a useless visual inspection. 5. You must then undergo intimate touching and apparatus insertion, for a test that is approximately 50 percent accurate. 6. You are then to expect two fingers to invade your vayjay and route around for a while , for a test that is highly inaccurate. 7. And then suffer the final indignity of anal and vaginal penetration at the same time, for another boarderline useless test. 8. And all done by a total stranger, and accomplice. And proscreeners call US STUPID. I beg to differ. Love and hugs Jules. xx.
You left out the part where you’re supposed to pay them for the “privilege”.
This is a ps to my last post it was to be included but the chianti has taken effect , it comes as a question when the doc leaves you for a few moments after the “ exam” for you to clean up and get dressed , before he returns has he been, A. Outside for a postcoital cigarette , or B. To the nearest gents to take matters in hand. Love Jules xx
Hi Jules, can I ask, are you in the UK or the US? As far as I am aware, the bimanuals aren’t done here, at least not yearly. Can anyone else confirm?
I think they did used to perform pelvics at smear tests but I’m not sure if they still do.
I don’t think the leaflets make mention of them but then again, it wouldn’t surprise me if they were conducting them without informing patients beforehand.
Jules and Demonhype! Bloody BRILLIANT Acomments!!! That summing up is 100% accurate and bang on the nail!!
No work today , so we are both drunk as skunks . Hope this cheers everyone up . There was an old gyro called Dave Doing intimate exams was his fave. Except one day, he got carried away and now he’s in prison till grave
Hi AQ. We are in the uk , I know that biannuals have been discontinued in standard practise but some gp’s feel the need to carry them out in some situations . The post was to show solidarity with our oversea’s sisters and have a pop at so called healthcare
Hi AQ , From personal experience, and that of friends it appears that if you attend a screening with a practice nurse that the screening consists of just that. If the exam is carried out by a doctor they seem to prefer going through the whole range of tests it maybe that practice nurses do not have enough qualifications to do the other parts,but I am not entirely sure. Also reading up on hpv testing we came up with some information about the hpv vaccination,is it known on this site that it was banned in Japan because of adverse effects it had on the girls over there. Hugs Jules.
Jules my daughter would have been among the first cohort of girls to have this HPV vaccine;? I refused permission! It was just rushed through and I couldn’t find any info about problems it might cause in later life: plus I knew from here that cervical cancer is rare and most ppl clear HPV naturally. After seeing all the damage reports in the press I’m so glad I did. And now they’re vaccinating boys too….
Hi kat , You would get on great with my mom , she uses the same logic as you , that is why she refused the vaccine on our permission letter, as she thought it best to wait to see if problems arose later, boy was she right. Hugs Jules. xx
Thanks Jules! X
Hi ladies , I’ve been trying to think up a motto for us, And thought of an old saying my dad always uses “IF IT ISN’T BROKEN,DON’T FIX IT this seems a very appropriate phrase in connection with over treatment of our cervices, might be something our doctors should learn. Love helper x.
Hi ladies, I’ve been skipping through Gov uk sites in connection with Public health England ,and came across this . Guidance topic 2.1. Background to cervical cancer, including human papilloma virus . if you read down to epidemiology. From these figures given here up to the latest ones, we can take it that the average number of women that contract cervical cancer in the uk is approximately 3,000 and out of those an average of 820 prove fatal. The figure of 265,000 is alarming until you read on and find 80% of this number are including third world and developing countries. Closer to home you find the European numbers the total number for around 28 countries cervical cancer deaths are 24,400 and of these the uk has the 9 th lowest death rate. They also point out that cc rates have fallen since the early seventies,they appear to be claiming credit for this even though screening wasn’t formally introduced until 1988-89 and before this they were only done randomly as part of a diagnostic test. towards the end they “estimate” that screening saves 5,000 lives yearly which is bloody marvellous seeing as only 3,000 contract it , they love using this figure. (must be that idiot Julian peto again .) but they do point out that 11 % of fatalities are women of 75 yrs. or older, surely if they are going to fudge the figures they should make them more believable. Hugs Jules xx.
Hi ladies, I have still not received my first demand for screening yet, but thanks to you lot I am prepared. when it arrives I will send a letter to my gp, this is my template. dr, …. ………. having just received my first cervical screening invite it requests that I book for this with the surgery. however after giving the matter a great deal of thought, I have made the informed decision to opt out of the NHS screening program, and in doing so formally request the surgery to send me a cervical screening opt out form, and just so there is no misunderstanding i would ask that this decision is also noted into my medical files, as i would take offence if it were to be mentioned at an unrelated appointment,as i would see this as an attempt to undermine my autonomy . I think I’ve covered all the angles ladies ,what are your thoughts. Love helper xx .
Hi Helper,
The only observation I would add is that I personally wouldn’t tell them that I have given the decision to opt-out a great deal of thought.
Firstly, you don’t need to explain yourselves to these people and secondly, they could think that you might be open to persuasion if they decide to initiate a discussion about it in the surgery.
My own letter was not too dissimilar to the following (although my original letter was a little longer, sterner and didn’t include any reference to the Data Protection Act):
Dear Sir(s)/ Madam(mes),
Following your letter dated [date inserted], I am writing to inform you that I unequivocally intend to withdraw my consent to be part of the national cervical screening programme.
I ask that my name is removed from your records forthwith [in compliance with the General Data Protection Regulation of the Data Protection Act], and that all correspondence relating to this matter ceases with immediate effect.
————————
Clearly, although no one has actually “consented” to be part of this programme, I do think that reference to withdrawing or refusing consent is very useful as it is technically a legal term.
With regards to your letter, I would add something like:
“I have copied my GP for information, and request that my decision to decline screening is respected and noted in my medical file.
Accordingly, I expect that no further discussion of this matter is raised.”
Hi Helper. Its a good letter. i think it would be ok for it to end with ‘is also noted on my medical file.’ I wouldn’t put ‘I would take offence etc.’ ‘undermine my autonomy etc’ – I would just put – ‘if you make a note on my medical file the subject wouldn’t be brought up in another appointment when seeing a doctor for an unrelated issue.’ this gets the point across in a clear manner without being excessive.
I’m so glad you’ve found this forum. I love reading your comments and feel proud that as a young woman you think for yourself and won’t be caught out by scurrilous doctors.
Linda
x
I don’t know, Linda. Helper might very well want to put in the strong words of “undermine my autonomy”, as IMX, medical personnel seem to be deliberately dense. If you don’t use strong and legal phrasing, they seem to interpret it as “I would prefer….” or “It would be nice if…”, and nothing happens. They are very set in their “procedures” and “this is how we do things”, which override any preference or even outright refusal by a patient so long as it’s not provable.
Putting it in writing certainly makes it more provable. But, they can go into the “I didn’t understand. I thought she just meant….” as they go on their merry way.
Hi Bethkz. Yes you’re probably right. It needs to be put in no uncertain terms.
All thanks to you, and the others -Linda, without this site I wouldn’t of had a clue love and thanks Helper xx
There’s a new article up, with references inside. “A #MeToo Hospital Movement Is Long Overdue—Here’s What Needs To Happen To Better Hold Abusers Accountable”. IT’S ABOUT BLOODY TIME! They say that they don’t know how widespread this is – they estimate that 10% of victims report, while for comparison 36% of regular rape victims do – but that’s only an estimate. It’s further complicated by how reports are classified in various reporting systems.
BTW, sodomy, as defined as “unwanted anal penetration” appears to be the most common type.
https://www.wellandgood.com/patient-safety-in-hospitals/
One of the links I found was to the National Women’s Law Center – to match a victim with an appropriate attorney, and to (partially?) pay for it.
Hopefully, they’ll get enough reports so that they take on this barrier to healthcare access that exists when we go in for any reason and the clinician is pre-occupied with penetrating our vaginas and/or anuses, and doesn’t pay much attention to the problem that brought us in or any test results.
Hi ladies, Many thanks for all your replies, I haven’t been ignoring you, I have been painting the hallway of the flat for Jules,and was standing on a chair when I managed to go ass over elbow landing on my rump and my phone was in my back pocket, only got my replacement this afternoon. only suffered a bruised ego and ass, no need for a doctors appointment haha. My opt out letter is only in rough at the minute when it is done properly I may well include some of your slant on the issue, although I am getting nervous at the moment because I know it can’t be too far away.love to all helper xx.
The satisfaction you’ll get from writing and sending that letter will hopefully make up for it 😀
Hi ladies, Having just read Bethkz last post I feel sickened, thinking about the vast numbers of medical staff that are or have been inappropriate to so many poor women is totally unacceptable, I never in my wildest dreams thought it could be anywhere near this number. I have read many posts by so called doctors on this site , that state there is nothing sexual in intimate female exams and they are totally professional throughout,well obviously,a good many don’t see it that way. To betray their patients for their own sexual gratification is beyond contempt, prison is far too lenient for these animals, if found guilty the punishment should be firing squad. Helper x
It’s so interesting how so many men like to point out the biological differences between the sexes as a means of justifying certain oppressive behaviour, like excluding women from certain jobs or implying that they shouldn’t be allowed to undertake certain activities,like travelling, alone.
Yet, despite their pontification and their proud boasts that men are designed to be more sexually predatory should we say, there’s apparently no difference between a qualified male or a qualified female performing these exams.
Despite the boast that sex enters their minds at least on average, once every two minutes, it’s not even in their thought processes ehen performing private exams!
Amazing that men can control their urges this way huh? It must mean that sexual assault and rape should surely never happen (seeing as that is usually blamed on their “urges”) and that no male medical professional has ever misused his position!
Sexual assault/abuse/rape is very seldom a matter of “sexual urges”. Much of it is power, and that is especially so in the case of abuse in the medical setting. If they can penetrate us in ways that we do not want and did not consent to, even using their medical triple-think about what consent looks like, they can do ANYTHING to us. Use us for medical training or research. Convince us to have medical care we do not need and stands to expose us to high risks and low potential benefits. Then, charge us for it. And, up-code and charge more for other needed medical visits because they spent time convincing us to have this test and performing it.
This has more in common with prison rape than it does with date rape.
Perhaps you misread it as far as numbers. According to the linked article, there are really no good estimates for how many people are so-abused. It’s just estimated that only 10% of sexual assaults by a healthcare provider are reported, while it’s much higher for other rape victims. That doesn’t mean that 10% of all women are assaulted. If 10 women are sexually assaulted, and 1 reports, it’s 10%. With 160 million women in the US, if all were sexually assaulted once each year, that would be 16 million reports.
They claim that many more women are sexually abused in healthcare, but it happens to men too. I think about 85/15% ratio by my recollection.
Hi ladies, What must be taken into consideration, is the number is irrelevant if that number is one it is still one too many. If a lady attends her surgery with a complaint she should feel safe, she could be in a state of pain,concern and anxiety she has made the appointment for assistance not for the doctor to get his jolly’s. I think where it goes wrong is the fact that the medical community have been left to “police”themselves in connection with complaints and when and if they act on a complaint the “punishment “ is entirely inadequate. and lenient it should be taken out of their hands and given to an independent group who would decide if the police should be informed and legal action taken ,the factors should include the breach of trust and the abuse of power, and then if found guilty they should experience the harshest of punishments,sentences must act as a deterrent for others not encouragement. Just remember no one is above the law especially some of these creatures. Love helper xx.
Hi ladies, I have just finished the letter I intend to send to my doctor, I know some will feel it’s over the top but I would like this done with once and for all, with no chance of getting ambushed.
Dr. …. ……….,
Having just received my first invitation for cervical screening ,the letter requests that I book for this with the surgery.
However I have made an informed decision to opt out of the NHS screening programme and formally request for the surgery to send me a cervical screening opt out form ,as I would like my name to be removed from the call and recall system in compliance with the general data protection regulations of the data protection act of 2018.
Furthermore upon my completion of withdrawal from screening I would recommend that the surgery make a note of my decision on my medical files, because if this matter is brought up at an unrelated appointment, it would be taken by me as an attempt to undermine my autonomy, as my decision is final and not up for debate and as such it would most likely result in a formal complaint, in accordance with the GMC official guidelines of medical practitioners which states a doctor cannot act against specific instruction of a patient, of which you have now been informed of.
A big thanks to AQ for the info about the data protection bit, it sounds so much more legal now.
Love Helper xx.
I love it 😀
Not sure if this is bothering anyone else, but it seems to me that even a pcp/ main doctor are doing the same thing with diagnostics tests. Like they aren’t asking or advising on the side effects of said diagnotics test, they just order and assume the patient will roll with it. Well what if for reasons the patient doesn’t want a chlolestrol test? We have the power to choose, and they should respect whatever decision we want to make. Why is healthcare forced on us like that? and to boot in the US, it is a big deal. Even diagnotics tests can be wrong as well.
I don’t want a cholesterol test because I choose to refuse statin drugs. They have a nasty side-effect profile while not having a spectacular level of efficacy, and even worse on showing that taking them has an effect on health. IMnsHO, if you’re not going to change much of anything as a result of a test – not take any different action with any result, you’re wasting time and money doing the test. However, I often do “roll over” and accept the test – being too exhausted after the pap fight to continue on. It’s a mater of picking my battles with the doctor. However, I have refused cholesterol tests in the lab. Sometimes I forget what is being tested for.
My insurance pays part of it. I pay a small part of these “preventative” tests. It all contributes to the US overuse, overdiagnosis problem – where we are paying by far the most for health care of any country in the world, yet do not have the longest life expectancy nor the lowest morbidity rate for numerous conditions – not to mention the rankings in other measures such as maternal and infant mortality – about “middle of the pack” for poor, undeveloped countries.
Yeah i started to notice that the us has this overuse, overdiagnosis problem. Sure, it can be great knowing your numbers on certain tests- so that one can improve, or try to improve. i actually found on webmd that during my age range chlosterol tests can be inaccurate, what else is? to boot, i have had blood draws all my life because of thyroid issues, which i am not suffering any side effects from. to boot, my particular doctor always raised my meds when i don’t need it raised. jeez- and like wouldn’t thyroid testing technically be inaccurate too? since it does have to do with hormones, and hormones can change overtime. of course one has to choose their battles but like it bothers me that doctors have the lack of respect as far as these things. and like lack of explainations and actually caring for the patient. i also read on webmd that people with slightly high cholestrol can be more healthy than the average person.
another thing- because i eventually want to travel internationally possibly when or if covid has a downfall- is it better anywhere else? obviously not so much the paps in britain but as far as diagnosis tests?
Just going to comment here to post: i got my blood draw results today- 1 point below normal- abnormal, lots of abnormals representing that. To be honest, i feel that all doctors use scare tactics to try to scare people into treatment that might not even help! Not only that- oh blood draws will save your life. smh.
Another update: my urine sample: oh the clean catch method didn’t work you have squamous cells in your urine.. smh i didn’t know it was unhealthy to have a vagina. i hate doctors…. Also was recommended for a consult at an endocrinlogist- no thanks!
Hi Jacqueline, I think the last time we talked was a long time ago on Women Against Stirrups. So nice to see you here! You have me laughing about the unhealthy to have a vagina bit. Reminds me of the running joke about healthcare companies in the US considering being female to be a preexisting condition. Take care, Rose
Hey there, so an update on the doctor situation…. So i am off to find a new doctor because my current doctor has invalidated consent. For one, the past few years i’ve been told nothing about future tests, and they order tests without telling me. Last year around this time the doctor ordered a Vitamin D test, but put on my record that i had a vitamin D defiency. got tested, and it was normal. she didn’t even tell me or apologize about it until i complained to her on the patient portal. This year it’s test, test, test for chlosterol, and like i am trying to excerise more, and hence, it is spring. but like they are overtesting for something. i mean isn’t blood levels changing within at least a year. i also take thyroid pills, but am on the lowest dose because i feel hyperthyroid. which is possible because my multivitamin has idoine in it so. and i explain this but all doctors want to do is make money… annoying because one hired the doctor to help take care of the body, but we can refuse, and we can tell them how our body feels. its annoying.
Hey all, i’m at a crossroads here. It’s the same issue that i’ve been posting about in regards to my thyroid. I am diagnosed with Hypothyroid, I take levothyroxine for it but am only on 75mg. I essentially feel fine, i go to work, come home, don’t oversleep, and live a normal life. Well recently i had bloodwork, 2 things before though “OH, you had alcohol, it don’t affect the bloodwork that we did” (A CBC, thyroid, lipids, iron…) Meanwhile, i did research and turns out that alcohol can affect the results. then i said blood tests are inaccurate and get, bleh bleh bleh…. and this doctor did bloodwork in 3 months time and doesn’t believe that it can take up to a year for the thyroid and absorb the medicine in the bloodstream, which helps your metabolism. She also didn’t believe that taking multivitamins with iodine in it can also help the thyroid. Also those same vitamins have biotin, which can interfere with the bloodwork. Well, on my appointment on wednesday, my doctor wanted to raise my meds from 75mg to 100mg, when i’m saying that i feel fine…. And at my 1st appointment i mentioned that i was on 100mg in the past, and felt hyperthyroid syptoms, which is worse! and i keep mentioning it, and it seems she is not convinced or considerate of an side effect. no, it’s just about money and not consent. What bothers me more is that it seems like no doctor researches like the patient does, or even considers how a patient feels. i know i need my thyroid pills though. but it’s hard because i need blood draws alot, and i feel like a pin cushion. my doctor wanted me to take new meds right away, and come back in 6 weeks for another blood draw. like how many blood tests do i need? as you can see , i am very mad. i know i need my medicine, but also i wanted to increase my meds slowly, and like, it seems that i had to pull teeth to get her to understand that. idk what to do, i already distrust doctors. now i distrust them more! but i know i need my pills.