Incidence of sexual abuse within health care is estimated to rival levels found within the church and other major institutions, but people who are sexually abused by doctors and other health care workers within the context of health care are faced with many unique barriers that are not present in other settings. Some of the barriers include difficulties distinguishing what constitutes sexual abuse, a decreased ability to prevent sexual abuse from occurring, and a lack of support and justice for instances when sexual abuse has taken place.
Recognizing sexual abuse
Recognizing sexual abuse within the context of health care can be difficult. It can be difficult to distinguish between health care and sexual abuse when routine examinations involve genitals and other sexual areas of the body. But it is the very nature of these exams that places doctors and other health care workers in a privileged and unique position to disguise sexual abuse as something else. For example, doctors are able to perform exams such as vaginal/rectal/breast exams when they are medically unnecessary, and to then defend their actions by claiming they were being “thorough”, or that they were done for the woman’s own good. And it can be very difficult to prove otherwise except in rare instances. For example, Dr. Stanley Chung was brought before the College of Physicians and Surgeons on allegations of frequent and unnecessary rectal and vaginal exams on women, some of whom were virgins.
It can also be difficult to determine when the line from appropriate behavior to inappropriate behavior during an examination has been crossed, especially if the sexual act is subtle. For instance when the doctor’s hand brushes against a breast as if by accident, or the doctor’s fingers linger a bit too long inside the vagina during a bimanual exam. In these instances the woman only has her hunches and instincts to support her suspicions. In other cases it is fairly obvious when the line has been crossed, such as instances where it is obvious that exams are not medically necessary. For example, a commenter on this site stated: “When I was thirteen my mom suspected I might have a kidney infection and took me in to see a urologist. He told me to cross my arms over my head, held my arms down, removed the paper shield and did a breast exam on me while I was fighting against him.” April 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm Clearly a thirteen year old girl would be considered as not being at risk of breast cancer. Another example is the court case of Wasserman versus Ms. Gugel:
Ms. Gugel alleges the doctor took her into an examination room and sexually assaulted her upon the conclusion of his “consultation only” appointment. The doctor claims the alleged sexual assault was actually part of a legitimate medical examination, even though he had already examined her the previous day . . . The doctor also contends the alleged sexual assault was part of a legitimate examination despite his not wearing examination gloves, his smelling his finger after using it to touch Ms. Gugel’s vulva and inserting it into her vagina, and his subsequent sexually harassing phone calls to Ms. Gugel, which were recorded.
Prevention
Preventing sexual abuse within the context of health care can be difficult. Many women have the reasonable expectation they will be able to trust their health care providers and sexual abuse is not something that is likely to be on a woman’s radar. However, even when distrust of a health care provider is present, the lack of informed consent involving intimate examinations provides little opportunity for a woman to avoid them. In fact, the current situation in women’s health allows for coercion to the point of bullying and the withholding of medications and other health services when women wish to decline pelvic exams/pap tests/STD testing. The power imbalance that is already present in the doctor/patient relationship becomes even more pronounced when a woman feels pressured into invasive exams or is unaware she has the right to say ‘no’, and the opportunity to prevent sexual abuse becomes extremely remote. In addition, the coercion that is the norm in women’s health care allows increased opportunity for predatory behavior and sexual abuse on the part of doctors and other health care providers.
Lack of support and justice
The effects from having been sexually abused by someone in a position of trust can be devastating. Dr. Gerald Monk, a professor at San Diego State University, states “Patients can feel especially violated in the context of health care. Not only do patients anticipate being safe and secure, they expect to be healed. Following an adverse medical event, a patient may experience a lifetime of heartbreaking anguish and suffering.” Juan Mendez in his work with the Human Rights Association compares some unnecessary medical procedures to torture and states, “medical care that causes severe suffering for no justifiable reason can be considered cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, and if there is state involvement and specific intent, it is torture.”
Some women who have been sexually abused by a doctor are not even sure what to call it, and in fact sexual abuse when committed by doctors is assigned special terminology and renamed as “medical misconduct”. When some women attempt to seek help they are often met with a white wall of silence and discover that denial and persistent altercation of the facts are prevalent. Sanda Rogers, University of Ontario law faculty, in her discussion of failed promise of reform regarding sexual abuse by health care professionals, states: “Patients report abuse. The evidence is there, as is the evidence that abuse is seriously under reported. The legislation provides the health disciplines with the tools necessary to respond to the abuse perpetrated by some members. Instead, the College of Physicians and Surgeons and other Colleges, have failed to ensure that complainants are provided with the support necessary to assist them to survive the process of complaint, investigation and hearing. The drop off rate on complaints by the CPSO, and by other Colleges, is such that almost no complaints and few complaints of sexual misconduct and abuse proceed to a full hearing. Each stage of the process favors the professional and undermines the complainant.” Sanda also states that complainants who were interviewed by the College members found the complaint process “an amplification of an already traumatic experience“.
As a result, doctors and other health care providers are often left free to continue abusing for years even after complaints against them are made. Dr. Alan Cockeram and Dr. George Doodnaught are just two examples of cases where many women filed complaints and they were ignored.
Sexual abuse under the guise of health care presents many barriers and can have devastating effects. Sanda states that “Abuse in the guise of care, enabled by professional status, access and patient vulnerability and dependency, is an insidious and terrible breach of trust and an unconscionable and violent abuse of power and authority“. Women are often placed in positions where they are vulnerable and left with limited resources to protect themselves from sexual abuse by health care providers. The women who have been abused and who find the courage to complain are led through a process that often only fails them. In addition, women who have been faced with such experiences are left in a place where health care can be viewed as a threat to their personal safety and psychological stability. In other words, these women are left to cope in a society where health care, for them, does not exist.
forwomenseyesonly 
On the topic of hidden cameras in doctor’s clinics.
If there is camera in the reception area fine but it should be obvious because it is supposed to deter crime. There many even be notice CCTV in use. However cameras are not supposed to be used in areas where there is an expectation of privacy such as washrooms, change rooms, examination and treatment areas. It is illegal unless consent is given. A patient might request that an exam by a doctor be videoed for insurance purposes but the video will be the property of the patients lawyer. Also if a doctor has child patients and videos them undressed it is making child pornography. These are serious crimes.
Look up nannycam and you will see that wireless cameras are available that are hidden in clocks, smoke detectors, plants, toys, books etc. how would anyone know if they were being videoed at all?
You know what’s weird? Kids get into all kinds of trouble for sending pictures of themselves or someone their own age over the phone (that whole “sexting” thing) and that’s considered child pornography. Yet, when someone has hidden cameras in their office where they do all kinds of inappropriate things, that’s not considered wrong OR evidence.
Apparently there’s some risk, at least in some places, where people getting pictures developed that have nudity (even if it’s their own) can get arrested for it! One wouldn’t presume that though. One also wouldn’t presume that the cops/doctors would put them through all kinds of things that actually ARE assaultive in that way. What they did hurts no one & didn’t even involve the surrounding community.
I’d say forced naked posturing, much less imposed probing, are much more threatening to the person & society in general than people taking naked pictures of themselves. This is especially true if this is done to kids.
I am quite sure that using a hidden camera to record images or video of a medical procedure where someone is naked or partially without consent IS A CRIME in my country. How often doctors are prosecuted, what investigations are done, what evidence needs to be collected, how the crime is detected and how many complaints filed – —- all a huge mystery.
But now I am going to be aware of what nannycams are on the market. I am going to refuse some exams from certain practitioners and not remove clothing. However who is to know that even a woman practitioner could be unaware her employer or landlord has installed spy cams? Is there some way?
It is so sad about how this doctor: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-doctors-aggressive-exams-unprofessional-but-not-sex-abuse-committee-rules/article16793993/ did 18 breast and pelvic exams on a woman in two years and the committee did not see this as sexual abuse. This is exactly why it is hard for doctors to get in trouble.
Misty
I honestly think it’s more that they see sexual abuse as a good thing, rather than not seeing it when it occurs.
If he decided to “go rogue” or be a “renegade doctor” with pretty much anything else (especially if it was something like giving a patient something that actually worked to kill cancer) he’d be gone. This sort of thing, it’s up to him to customize things as he sees fit- if that happens to fly in the face of what is set down as medical guidelines, so be it. Isn’t it interesting that they “suggest” things to the doctors, but the doctors “require” things from the patient. Or maybe they just “mandate/order/demand/command/dictate” things?
The doctors basically think that they can act at their own discretion, damn the composition of the situation & the results. They figure it’s someone pushing them around to comport their own medical situation. A warped psychology, to say the least. Imagine pointing that out to them? They’d just accuse you of being that way- since there’s no way to say something so that they can’t lie or twist your words on their own.
Also, a lot of their ego rests on having expertise in something that’s NOT bullshit- if it IS bullshit, however, that’ll kick the chair out from under their arrogance. Their addiction is cut off at the source. They figure that this schooling makes them superior to the patient & that this means that their decisioons outmatch the patient’s. So it would also kick the chair out from under what they see as a means of countering the patient.
Look at how a male doctor did unnecessary breast exams at http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.2546982.
Misty
Look at how a male doctor who was addicted to pornography took pictures of patients and children in surgery at http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/11026189.Dirty_Swanley_doctor_Barend_Delport_struck_off_for_taking_indecent_photographs/. This is exactly why all surgery patients should have maximum amount of modesty. There are so many surgeries such as knee, tonsillectomy, etc that should not require patients to take their underwear off.
Misty
Thanks Misty for this interesting link. I agree all surgery patients should have maximum amount of modesty, and also think they need to be aware of the potential for misconduct. At least in the case of Dr. George Doodnaught some justice was served:
“Dr. George Doodnaught, the Toronto anesthesiologist found guilty of sexually assaulting 21 women while they were under conscious sedation in hospital, was sentenced to 10 years in prison Tuesday.
In delivering the sentence, Judge David McCombs called the crimes “shocking and abhorrent.” He said “a very substantial sentence” was necessary to send a clear message about the abhorrence of the crimes, which he called “reprehensible in the extreme.” http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dr-george-doodnaught-gets-10-years-for-sex-assaults-1.2550308
It was encouraging to see the hefty penalty handed down by Judge David McCombs. Too often these cases are dismissed/excused/covered up and all too often the implicit message is that it is acceptable to “mistreat” women in healthcare settings.
Sue,
I agree with you that it is encouraging that Dr. Doodnaught was sentenced to 10 years in prison. But it is still sad that he sexually abused so many women under anesthesia.
Misty
Myou can refuse to take off clothing if it will not interfere with the day surgery. I was told that if something happened and I had to be taken into the operating room then they would cut it off or blood could get on it. Fine. I can replace clothing but not my dignity when my modesty is denied me.
Check out this article: Let’s Stop Denying That Doctors Can Be Sexual Predators (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/beverly-akerman/george-doodnaught-rape_b_4873644.html).
Misty
Check out the story of a woman who was sexually abused by Dr. Doodnaught, the anesthesiologist in Toronto at http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/02/28/why-victim-of-toronto-anesthesiologists-sex-assault-wants-you-to-know-her-name/.
Misty
The Doodnaught’ crime. He was denied bail during the trial. I cheer that. Two victims challenged the automatic victim naming ban and came forward. They were not afraid. All victims of sexual assault in Canada can have a name ban and some will never testify in court especially if they are children or have disability.
I heard a few women had complained that something happened to them but the hospital said it was just the effects of the anaesthetics. It was only when one women went to the police with evidence (semen on her face) that the investigation started.
So the effects of anaesthetics is that it makes you think you got molested?
Hey,
The Sun Newspaper here in the UK did a campaign two days ago called ‘Check ‘Em Tuesday’ to raise breast cancer awareness. They formed a partnership with a charity called ‘Coppafeel’.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/check-em-tuesday/5489308/90-survive-if-diagnosed-early-on-so-remember-to-Check-em-Tuesday.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/check-em-tuesday/5483734/how-to-check-your-breasts.html
There was a mixed response but mostly positive overall. Even some anti-Page 3 campaigners have praised The Sun for backing a good cause. But lots of people, inc other charities, have criticised the campaign for trivialising, sexualising the issue etc.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/breast-cancer-charities-criticise-the-suns-new-page-three-check-em-tuesday-for-trivialising-the-disease-9168517.html
Personally I’ve got mixed views. I think it’s great that a popular media outlet is promoting a great cause and if even one girl checks herself after seeing this and catches it early, then it’s worth it. I know all the girls in that header photo personally from shoots I’ve done and they’re all lovely. They’re obviously doing it with the best intentions, as is the paper.
But I do think it’s a bit awkward using a young model like Rosie (even though she’s actually almost 24, not 22 like it says on the cover) when the condition generally affects middle aged/older women. Using pictures of a model in her pants weirdly sexualises & fetishises breast exams in my opinion. It seems like the way they presented it is aimed more at men.
What do you guys think?
I don’t have anything against women checking themselves for lumps & such, but if they make normal stuff out to be a “warning sign” it puts things “back in the doctor’s hands”. Sorry for the pun, but it’s literally true.
Using the hot models might be geared directly at women (like using good-looking people in any advertisment). Also, it might be geared at women through men (like when they did that guilt-trip campaign with the crying child- except with a different subject). Now it’s about linking this to the quality of attractiveness. Just like when letting someone else make their own decisions with your own body is inaptly linked to “empowerment.”
Also, it would be potentially likely that the guy might not argue with the hot girl in the magazine, so he wouldn’t be as likely to be a source of support. You can bet that some guy looks at that magazine as something to take in the bathroom with him (even if it’s not as revealing as others, it’s just different from the typical magazines). Kind of like how someone can see all kinds of stuff in Playboy or Hustler, but a celebrity nip-slip might still draw a lot of attention.
I think it was a real “sex sells” approach. They definitely didn’t go with the three chicks at the middle of the page!
Actually clinical breast exams and breast self-examination have not been recommended in the UK, Australia and in many other countries for many years, neither is of any proven benefit, but they lead to anxiety and excess biopsies.
Breast awareness is being promoted now, just taking note of the look of your breasts in the mirror every morning after showering and seeing a doctor if you notice any changes.
They often use images of young women having mammograms as well, why?
It certainly has the potential to mislead and confuse: should young women get mammograms? Also, I agree with you it does combine sexuality with medicine and that’s never a good thing. Papscreen used a sexy campaign to promote pap testing here, I thought it was inappropriate, but then IMO, everything they do is inappropriate and disrespectful.
I hesitate to ask , but how did they use a “sex sells” angle with that?
You know what else is annoying? How it comes off like a woman’s a prude if you aren’t on board with that kind of stuff. Also, it’s like a guy is supposed to be so mindless that a good-looking woman in (or out of) a bikini can get him to approve of anything. And then the guy being that stupid is a gripe on it’s own!
I don’t think it’s really appropriate for them to try to sell anything. In this case, it’s a high-risk, low-utility way of dedecting something that’s massively rare. All this would be a problem no matter what dynamics were involved. Invasiveness is it’s own problem, and I’d think even as a means to an end- that would be a problematic methodology. If imposed, however, that is a pretty serious attack.
Regardless of however “low-key” the manner of doing it is (since there’s GENERALLY no wrestling or screaming involved), the situation still consists of an imposed interface with a sexual area (specifically a penetrative one). If someone said “Let me play doctor on you, or you get evicted” that would be a coercive attack if accomplished.
Look at an article about how a former policeman who became a nurse sexually abused a number of patients at http://koin.com/2014/03/19/ex-er-nurse-jeffrey-mcallister-faces-another-new-sex-charge/.
Misty
The crime background check system apparently does not work in some places. If he had so many charges against him the there is no way he should have been working in a hospital at all.
The criminal background check is just a huge hassle and barrier to those of us who are not offenders.
Look at how 1,200 pictures of women’s private parts that were found in Dr. Levy’s case at http://www.wtop.com/41/3590613/Hopkins-gynecologist-case-yields-1200-naked-patient-pics. This is exactly why women should always avoid male gynecologists. I am sure that many male gynecologists have taken pictures of women’s private parts without ever being caught.
Misty
Misty, the idea that all, or even most, male gynecologists get a sexual thrill is both false and extremely offensive. I’ve worked with many, many, many male OB/GYNs and am even related to a few. You want to know how many I’ve ever suspected got anything sexual from it? One. You’re MUCH more likely to run into an abusive female OB/GYN (and no, not because she’s a lesbian).
Whether or not all or most male gynaecologists get a sexual thrill from their patients is unquantifiable. We have no way of knowing for sure. Certainly though, SOME of them cross the line and end up in the courts for sexual assault. What I believe Misty is saying is that there is an element of risk in seeing a male gyn and the only way to eliminate the risk is to see a female.
I certainly don’t find her comment offensive and she is entitled to her opinion as you are yours.
Well said Chrissy. I agree Misty is not saying all male doctors are poised to sexually assault female patients. Misty is moderate in what she says, especially given the huge numbers of complaints she receives from female patients who have been victims of sexual abuse at the hands of male doctors and other health care providers. She also hears complaints from men who have been abused, and from patients who have been abused by male and female medical providers (not always doctors). However, the vast majority of sexual abuse cases are attributable to male health care providers. Misty is a wonderful advocate for female and male patients. Misty helps to raise awareness and works to prevent sexual abuse in medical settings.
I would figure that they wouldn’t advertise it if they did- particularly to a woman. Kind of hard to have a “bros before hos” type of angle from women (and mark my words- it happens). They don’t make an obvious point about risks & inaccuracies, either. Same with extra financial incentives.
I’ve got to ask why you figure you’d be more likely to run into an abusive woman in that profession? Also, I’d presume aggressive lesbianism is definitely a possibility, but why would that not be the reason?
Ladyprotips,
How could you possibly know what’s going on in the mind of another person?
I also, doubt a doctor would alert you to the fact he’s enjoying the view or touching.
I view with suspicion any male doctor who claims he “doesn’t notice” a beautiful woman, it doesn’t ring true. I’d have more respect if he admitted he noticed and even enjoyed in some cases, but always acted as a professional, never stepping over the line.
It’s up to individual women, we have a right to choose. I’ve never needed the services of a gyn, but if I did, I’d see an older female doctor who comes recommended by several of my friends, simply because I would feel more comfortable with a woman, my choice.
Well said guys, also, a quick look at the Medical Board shows all of the cases, as far back as I could go, involve male doctors. (for inappropriate conduct) There are also, a few complaints involving male nurses, when you consider females greatly outnumber males in that profession, it’s concerning.
If there are cases involving female doctors, they must be few and far between.
Female doctors might be rude, male doctors might be rude, but the stats show men are FAR more likely to end up at the Medical Board for inappropriate conduct. Also, we have to remember MOST suspect conduct is never reported.
Predators are also, very cunning and know how to control and manipulate their victims.
There are also, so many subtle ways to take advantage now, as we’ve seen with the recent cases of male doctors using pens and phones to take photos of women during intimate exams.
There is no doubt in my mind it’s safer for women to see male doctors, especially young women. Even if a woman feels comfortable with a male gyn/urologist etc. the “risk” of a problem is higher. If a woman is content to take the chance, that’s her decision, but abuse in the consult room can cause lifelong psychological damage, and can mean depression, avoiding all medical care into the future, PTSD etc. Why take the risk?
As a young woman I was pressured (like all women) to have pap tests and routine breast & pelvic exams with a male doctor, NONE of it was necessary. (and pap tests should be our choice) These things were NEVER clinical requirements for the Pill, but women were trapped, submit or no Pill. IMO, these women were set up for assault by the mostly male medical profession. So the Pill was out for me, the price was far too high.
I saw the distress and damage caused to so many of my friends, I KNEW these male doctors were taking advantage, these things were not clinical requirements AND I (and others) noticed the attractive women got the works while overweight and unattractive women (in the eyes of the doctor anyway) got the Pill with a blood pressure check.
So IMO, it’s up to individual women to decide…I noticed one of our top models had a baby recently and used a male obstetrician. Of course, it would be nonsense to suggest this man did not “notice” her attractiveness, but this woman either doesn’t mind or has convinced herself he doesn’t really “see” her, that medical training changes the way a man views a beautiful woman. Some women also, feel it’s more normal for a male to view them so intimately.
Regardless, that’s their business and their choice.
Misty is doing some great work, for too long we’ve avoided the elephant in the room, women were ridiculed if they wanted a female doctor and male doctors got away with shocking abuse, sometimes for decades, thankfully, that’s changing…and women are now more likely to stand their ground, challenge and report suspect conduct. (to the Medical Board AND to the Police)
Yes Elizabeth, I just read of a male nurse who has been accused of sexually abusing an elderly female patient.Apparently another female patient complained about this before but the complaint was dismissed by the internal board. They assumed she was a little confused. How utterly patronising.The second woman’s complaint is taken more seriously becuase the women could give the exact time of the assault and it coincides with the video of him entering her room. How many male nurses are there and why does sexual assault always seem to be committed by male nurses- it must be a pretty high percentage.
My boyfriend has told me when we have kids he only wants me to have female doctors for labor if I even choise a hospital birth. I whould feel terrible having another man touching me that’s not my husband I don’t care if he is a doctor. I really belive males doctors do get pleaser out of gyn exams and breat exams. my aunt said her doctor got seemed excited when he was doing a breat exam on her and he got an erection. she was so grosed out.
“There is no doubt in my mind it’s safer for women to see male doctors, especially young women”
Obviously that should read, “it’s safer to see FEMALE doctors” etc.
I had breast aug and was under anasthetic and 2 days later when bruising stated to come out on my Breast and ribs also my genitals inner outer lips and clitoris were severely bruised then 2 days after that I had a urinary tract infection.my doctor said bruising can travel anywhere but I’m worried something happened when I was under anasthetic.
That’s horrifying! I’ve got to say it: It does sound like something happened. The doctor is full of shit. The discoloration might spread out to a surrounding area due to gravity, but you have bruising in two separate areas not a trail down the whole front of your body. Plus, that doesn’t cover a urinary tract infection.
I hate to be so blatant about it & I’m not trying to rub it in your face, but any interface with sexual areas as a product of someone else’s decision-making is an attack. That just so happens to be the areas you’re having issues with after being unconscious around these people? Chest & ribs might be from surgery (but that might be different depending on the kind of surgery), but that’s not going to just pick up & move to the area between your legs & give you a urinary infection.
There might be home testing kits for this sort of thing, I don’t know. Blood & urine testing works for STDs & there are pills that go beyond the morning-after pill if you’re worried about pregnancy (as well as various herbal things to generate that effect). Just thought I should add that in, because even as a means to an end some things might be a problematic methodology & they do try to work all kinds of angles (to include steering things in their own direction around the woman).
I Can’t even imagine how you must be feeling and I am very sorry for you. Was it a teaching hospital as they will let students practice on you whilst out for the count. Absolutely shocking if you did not consent to this. I would certainly be making a complaint as it would continue on and on. They must be held accountable for their actions. Don’t delay the complaint.
Leah, you can end up badly bruised after breast surgery, I had a breast reduction many years ago and was bruised and sore for 10 days or so.
I think surgeons can be quite rough when we’re out to it. I had 4 impacted wisdom teeth out under GA and woke up with a badly swollen face, sore ribs and black eyes. I assume the sore ribs resulted from the oral surgeon resting on my chest to get some leverage.
Also, I wonder whether they used a foley catheter, if you’re out for more than 2-3 hours they use a catheter, that “might” explain the genital soreness and the UTI.
I can understand your concerns, I dread the thought of needing surgery in the future, I just don’t trust the system to act in my best interests when I’m not conscious to keep an eye on them.
I’ve heard an expression, “what happens in surgery, stays in surgery”…
I’d ask my surgeon/doctor whether a catheter was used during the procedure. Bruising can travel anywhere, what? That makes no sense.
Ouch, I’m really sorry
Elizabeth is absolutely right, doctors are extremely rough during surgery. After I watched a c-section for the first time I fully understood why so many people feel beat up after surgery. They flop you around and are pretty rough when they’re tugging and pulling. I’d bet that’s the bruising on your breast and ribs, honestly.
As for the genital bruising, it sounds like they put a catheter in, to be honest.
If the bruising was indeed caused by a catheter, why didn’t her doctor explain this? Why did he lie to her?
If nothing untoward happened, it’s unacceptable to brush off a patient’s concerns by telling them a fairy story. Smacks of arrogance or incompetence.
Look at how a well-respected male gynecologist was accused of taking nude pictures of a female patient at http://arkansasnews.com/news/arkansas/paragould-doctor-accused-secretly-photographing-patient-nude. Look at how active this doctor is in his community at http://www.bectonclinic.com/doctor.htm. This is exactly why it is prudent to avoid male gynecologists.
Misty
I agree with your mission, but the way you demonize men is ridiculous and needs to stay on radical, 2nd-wave feminist blogs. You’re perpetuating rape culture. Stop it.
Ladyprotips, I wasn’t aware that some categories of feminism are not acceptable on this blog.
Just look at the stats – most sex offenders are cis men, though I don’t believe men are wired to be sexual predators; doing gender is a cultural construct and unfortunately parts of masculine culture are demeaning towards women.
It would be great if we could access gynaecological care where the sex of the physician didn’t make a difference, but sadly it does, and just because we’d like to believe in a better world it doesn’t make it a reality.
ladyprotips, Misty is attempting to raise awareness in order to protect women from harm. She is not, as you say, “perpetuating rape culture”, nor is she “demonizing” men. To make that claim is IMO akin to victim blaming. In case you haven’t noticed, the women who visit this blog are generally supportive of each other and don’t attempt to give one another orders.
From priests to humanitarian aid workers to lawyers to politicians, members of a professor close in- profession is a matter of identity. If you really want to be better, do not be a doctor first and foremost. Sorry but saying Misty should stop raising awareness about sexual abuse in medical setting because it “demonises men” sounds like something straight out of a male rights manifesto
I wasn’t going to get involved in this discussion but in some ways I agree with ladyprotips about the way that male Dr’s are portrayed. I also agree with the work that Misty has done in raising awareness about this issue. I wonder if the stats are skewed because women are more likely to report a male Dr than a female Dr for assault. Would a woman dismiss an assault by a female Dr because it was a female thinking that a female would never do that. Are assaults by female Dr’s under-reported.
In some cases women do not have a choice of seeing a male Dr for a gynecological issue and I would hate for a woman due to the fear of being assaulted to not see a top rated surgeon for example and receive the best of care and have a successful surgery because the Dr is male versus getting lesser care from a female Dr. Personally I have had worse experiences with female Dr’s than I have with male. That does create a personal bias but in every professional field there are good and bad of both genders.
How is she perpetuating rape culture? Is it raping the doctor to display their medical attacks or someone else’s? If only the first one were true! Turnabout is fair play, after all.
She DOES mention female personnel, but the story tends to involve males. The frequency of that is not her fault & her reporting that situation is not demonizing men. She even mentions thing perpetuated against men & gives advice on how to prevent these things (like them backing guys into hernia checks for school sports).
ladyprotips,
I don’t comment often, and wasn’t originally going to enter this discussion, but have a concern about the potential impact of your most recent comments.
I do appreciate that you bring your perspective and voice to this blog, and that you take the time and make the effort to contribute. Your experience with having relatives involved in the profession, and with being personally involved gives you a perspective that is not shared by everyone, and which can provide helpful additional information to that provided by others. However, I am concerned that the content and tone of your most recent comments have not been the most helpful way of advancing your ideas.
In my opinion, your argument about this blog perpetuating rape culture was a specious one to begin with, but not worth getting too concerned about, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, you are now using your unproven (and in my opinion, incorrect) assumption and are wielding it as if it were a fact and are using it as a weapon to try and silence those who don’t share your view. It is a clever rhetorical approach to accuse someone you disagree with of contributing to rape culture – what a great way to try and silence a predominantly female audience. Your experiences do give you a perspective that is not necessarily shared by all contributors to this blog, but they do not give you a corner on the truth, and they don’t give you the right to tell other contributors that they are unwelcome and should only be posting on other blogs that you describe in derisive terms. It is not helpful to issue orders to others who post their comments, and it detracts from the points you are trying to advance – at least it does so for me.
I hope that all healthcare providers can work collectively to improve the situation for women who have experiences like those described by those who comment on this blog. Given your experiences and role in healthcare it is likely that you have had the opportunity to make such positive contributions, and your input on this blog seems to reflect a very positive commitment to this, and is appreciated. I respect your input even though I may disagree with some specifics, and I hope that you continue to post your comments. However, I hope that you are sensitive to the possibility that others have different experiences, and that their perspective on issues of trust in relation to the medical industry might correspondingly be different from yours.
Si, I would argue that some forms of feminism are extremely toxic and have no place in civilized society (2nd wave feminism). Some feminists say trans women are men who are trying to force their way into women’s spaces to rape them. Is that acceptable? Some say all PIV sex is rape. Is that acceptable? No, I would argue that it absolutely are not. As for most sex offenders being cis men, that is true overall, but not when broken down by demographic. When you start looking at assaults that have happened in children under 12, you start to see a huge rise in the number of female offenders. I think you’d be surprised how many attacks by GYNs are done by women. Pop over to myobsaidwhat.com and read how many attacks have happened by women, and how many male OBs have defended their patients from violent abuse.
Sue, in claiming she is “trying to help women protect themselves,” she is putting part of the blame on women themselves, and are therefore perpetuating rape culture. Saying you should never have a male gynecologist because “he may rape you” is as stupid as saying you should never be alone with a man because “he may rape you.” You know, men like Warren Hern and Leroy Carhart risk their lives every single day bringing healthcare to women in America. They fight SO HARD for a woman’s right to choose and have had several attempts made on their lives. George Tiller literally died protecting choice. Knowing that men like this exist, I just can’t believe some people want to blow all men in the profession off as sexual predators until proven otherwise. I hope none of you ever need a late term abortion, because of the four providers in America, 2 are men and one is a lesbian.
You know, Karen, I already get death and rape threats for having committed my life to providing comprehensive reproductive healthcare, so I don’t appreciate being told to not be a doctor by someone who is more concerned with painting the entire profession as rapists. Demonizing men is very much a feminist issue, as once we do that, we place the responsibility of not being raped on women’s shoulders.
Well, F.L., everyone on this blog seems to wield opinions as if they were facts. My issue here is most women here openly admit to never having any experience with an OB/GYN. “I’ve never seen a gynecologist and never will!” is something I often see on this site. And honestly, that’s perfectly fine. That’s your right. I don’t question that part at all. What I DO question, then, is how you all seem to know that they’re OBVIOUSLY sexual predators if so many of you have never even met one? I have a marvelous male GYN I’ve seen since I was 18 when I switched from my dreadful female GYN. I really, really appreciate everything he does for me. Most women on this blog boast “I have a healthy uterus and cervix, I don’t need an OB/GYN!” Well, not all of us are so lucky. I don’t have a healthy uterus, and without my GYN’s help I wouldn’t be able to get out of bed for two weeks every month. It’s hard to go to class when you’re throwing up/in too much pain to walk. This may blow some of your minds, but I actually may have to beg for an exam, because my (male) OB actually won’t do one since I’m young/not sexually active! But when you”re hurting enough, you’ll do anything to stop it. Exercise, fancy diets, birth control pills, and prescription pain meds are not fixing my problem, so I’m at a point where I’m completely fine with getting surgery. Many of you would probably call me an awful person for being willing to do pelvic exams on currently asymptomatic women who have chronic ovarian cysts or endometriosis. I completely understand wanting surgery to avoid it ever becoming painful. I DREAD my pain. I cry in the weeks leading up to my period then ovulation because I can’t handle the thought of it. But women on this site don’t tend to have these experiences and can’t possibly understand why anyone would ever appreciate an OB/GYN, especially a male. And I’ve been threatened and verbally abused by a GYN, and am very, very sympathetic to the people who have also been through that, but some of us really, really do need our GYNs and don’t appreciate insults being hurled at them by people who frankly just don’t know what they’re talking about.
Honestly, do y’all want to know how most people decide to be OB/GYNs? They get halfway through medical school and start their rotations. They see geriatrics, where you’re basically preparing people for death. They see pediatrics, and as my dad told me, the little kid getting over an ear infection and thinking you’re superman is cute, the little kid with a brain tumor who doesn’t know where they are is not. They see the ER and see that it’s scary as fuck. They see family medicine and think “wow, this is great! No one is dead and I’m not having to piece people back together after a car accident! Fantastic!” Now from here, people split into two camps: the people who see childbirth, think it’s disgusting, and never want to see it again, and the people who see childbirth and can’t get enough. They’re gong to be an OB/GYN and do this forever! Here’s where things start to go downhill. You’ve seen childbirth, and you think the female body is amazing and strong. “But no,” your professor tells you, “the only reason they both aren’t dead is because of these machines.” Then you spend time in GYN pit and see women in GYN emergencies, and you think that’s unfortunate. “But no,” your professor tells you, “that wouldn’t have happened if she’d just gotten her annual exam. This was her fault.” Then you do your GYN/ONC elective, and you see all these women dying of cancer, and you wonder why they didn’t just get an exam before this was a problem, all while forgetting that as a teaching hospital, you have better technology and providers and are seeing the worst of the worst. You think maybe this was just an unfortunate incident. “But no,” your professor tells you, “women are irresponsible. This is why we have to hold their birth control over their heads, or they’ll all be here like this.” And you find yourself agreeing, and you don’t see anything wrong with this reasoning. After all, you care about women and don’t want to see them all here like this! And you know, most of them really, really do. Before they know it, they find themselves thinking that frankly, women are pretty irresponsible and you have to deal with that. It’s a slow, honestly pretty clever manipulation. Being mad at individual doctors is sort of pointless. It makes much more sense to be angry at medical schools.
I don’t get why you’re still saying that there’s a general demonizing of men on this site. It’s been made clear numerous times that this is not the case, only that it TENDS to be male (at least with females over 12, if what you’re saying is true).
As far as facts go, I’ve noticed that medical personnel TEND to not see something as a fact unless it matches what they are pitching at the time.
I’ve also noticed that they TEND to have the stance that they are not going to change how they have do things (“compromising their method of practice,” I believe is how it gets phrased). There also TENDS to be a very self-focused style of looking at things (THEIR methods, THEIR money, THEIR worries, THEIR problems- particularly the problems they have with other people ). Very much more typical of males than females, although some women seem to be dead-set on not being outmatched in that arena.
The TENDANCY among medical personnel is to blame the mysterious pharmaceutical companies, the instructors/indoctrinators at the medical schools, and the big, bad EVERYONE ELSE. Someone else is the “bad guy” when they try to comport their own medical situations (whether that’s blocking something off or getting something they want). Someone else is “just trying to make money” when they sue them for iatrogenically attacking them. Someone else is physically defective, it’s not them screwing up that causes a problem or that gets them to see something as an issue when it’s not.
I also don’t see how Sue is “supporting rape culture” by saying women should take strides to protect themselves. Even if someone WERE to say “All the male doctors are dangerous,” how exactly does that reinforce a cultural pattern of permissiveness toward violation? It only acts against a single part of it & it’s kind of insulting to men, but it doesn’t support anything assaultive that they or anyone else does. Acting like an unconventional variation is NOT an attack reinforces that kind of culture, which is something I notice from medical personnel- male & female.
Ladyprotips- if you reply to me, please do not twist and contort what I have said. I said do not be a doctor first and foremost, do not close in and protect “your kind” if you want to be ethical. And that is what I think. Ps how the hell would you know who these people commenting on here are, and what their know, or what they do??? All these sob sob tales of the good doctors protecting their little patients, and they only ever think of how nice shoes they wear, or what the hell EVER- who cares???? Patriarchy- structural.
“I am the defender of the defended” “http://imgur.com/2Nhebiz
I would like to know how this woman suspected she was being photographed. There are many types of hidden video cameras available. Just google “nannycam”. I also suspect that many male doctors are doing this. They are also getting their female staff to help them or not say anything about it. Some of them might be victims themselves but most might notice something strange going on.
Dear patient modesty
Please put in you website how people can know if their doctor has a hidden camera. What to do? Then what to tell police?
Sue,
You are right that my goal is to help to raise awareness about how women can protect themselves.
Misty
Misty all the work you’ve done, your research, writing, advocating, commenting, and support is much appreciated. All too often the victims of medical abuse are hushed up, told it didn’t happen, and the perpetrator is left free to abuse again. There is very little in the way of protection for women in medical settings, and when abuse does occur it can be devastating. Prevention is so important, but many women are completely trusting and unaware that sexual abuse is even a possibility. No one is saying ALL male medical personnel are poised to pounce on women, but unfortunately it does happen.
Sue,
Thank you for your encouragement! You are right that many people are too trusting of doctors. I had a great male pediatrician for a number of years. He never asked me to take any of my clothes off at all. He always welcomed my mom in the room with him. There are certainly some good male doctors.
Medical Patient Modesty has received some heart breaking cases from women who were abused by doctors. I believe I mentioned this case, but we heard from a 18 year old virgin girl who was coerced by a male doctor at her college to have a pap smear and breast exam. She went in for swimmer’s ears.
Misty
Here’s another article about Dr. Becton at http://www.medicaldaily.com/arkansas-gynecologist-dr-paul-becton-took-nude-photos-patients-during-office-exams-without-consent. I tried replying to the nurse who believes that a female assistant or nurse always protect patients.
My comments to her (I hope they will be approved) were:
It is very likely that Dr. Becton had a nurse with him. Medical Patient Modesty has received numerous cases where nurses or female assistants were present with women who were abused by male doctors. I encourage you to check out this important article: Do Chaperones Really Protect Patients? at http://sexualmisconductbydoctors.com/chaperones.aspx.
Many doctors especially male will have a nurse or assistant present for intimate exams such as breast, pelvic exams, and pap smears. The chaperone is the doctor’s employee so she looks out for him and she will often defend him even when he does something wrong. Keep in mind that the nurse or assistant is there to “protect” the doctor and is rarely on the patient’s side.
There are times a nurse or assistant may know that the doctor is doing something wrong, but she may be afraid to expose his criminal activities for fear of being fired or facing discrimination in the workplace.
The best thing a woman can do is to not go to a male doctor for intimate procedures.
Misty
Check out another article about how patients reacted to Dr. Becton’s article at http://www.wfla.com/story/25267758/patients-react-to-paragould-obgyns-arrest-warrant. Especially pay close attention to what Nicole Vance said.
Misty
Nice find… she is saying “It’s not something that you want to experience with your baby doctor,” Vance said. “You want that to be fun. You want that to be happy. Nobody wants to be around that.” Well if not DECADES of pervasive propaganda, all the little responsible women, the Nadia Kamils, the hard-working nudge units, the psychologists and PR gurus, no-one would just automatically think in terms like “fun” “”happy” related to an old man (now convicted for assault) penetrating the vagina of a pregnant girl. Rotten to the core, the whole thing.
Wow it would be my fault it I get any gyn cancer because I did not have an annual pelvic exam. Those gyno doctors are sooooooo judgemental.
If I had pain then of course I am going to get help for it but I would like to be able to choose a female doctor and I probably would have Pap tests every so often if my greedy male doctor would refer me to a female colleague. But I would rather just have a self HPV test which is denied me because of the country I live in.
Ladyprotips,
As someone who suffered endometriosis for 30 years I can sympathise with your current health problems. Please do not assume that the majority of the women on this site have had no problems with their reproductive organs. Some of us will talk about our experiences and some won’t. That does not mean we have no idea what we are talking about. We bring our own personal experiences and views to this site and from my perspective this and blogcritics (until it was shut down) have been the only two sites where I have felt safe to post my views. Some of us are still angry about how we have been treated.
The overriding message from this blog is not the ‘demonizing’ of men, it is unequivocally the fight for informed consent and choice for women. Yes, I am sure a number of women here would not choose to see a male doctor, but would not wish to remove this choice from other women if that is what they want. The problem arises when there is no choice, which is something I can relate to.
I am glad you have found a doctor that you can trust and who has helped you.
For some of us that trust has gone and for me personally, I doubt it will ever return.
Check out this interesting article: 8 Unbelievable Stories About Inappropriate Gynecologists at http://www.oddee.com/item_98893.aspx.
Misty
[…] Thank you to Karen for her enlightening comments and references:https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/04/19/sexual-abuse-under-guise-of-health-care-presents-barriers/co… […]
Hey everyone,
Some of you may have already heard about this, but I thought I’d link this story about how TV host Maria Menounos was molested by a doctor.
http://theblemish.com/2012/06/maria-menounos-was-molested-by-a-doctor/#!MFKqf
She doesn’t go into much detail, but if the fundamentals are true then it must have been awful.
Yeah, I heard about that.
This is why it gets me so cranked-up when people say “Oh, but it’s a doctor- it’s not like that.” It’s a horrible thing is someone’s relative “plays doctor” on them, why would it be any different with a real one imposing things? It could be the overt way of attacking someone or it could be using medical procedures with overlapping properties- either way it’s not a fictional situation. Reality doesn’t take a coffee break!
That is awfull. So many pple put there trust in doctors like they could never do any wrong. I wonder if this happen when the doctor was doing a gyn exam on maria? And were were her parents?
The case of Maria. Her parents apparently disowned her when she started seeing her boyfriend, I assume that she was just with her boyfriend at the time and he was taking her to the doctor. People commenting seem to think this is unusual. Sadly it happens all the time.
The typical scenario: a young woman goes to the doctor. She is asked questions about her personal life. It is assumed she has started having sex so automatically, whether she asks, consents or is even asked about it, she is set up to get a “pelvic exam” with the pap, visual “inspection” and SDI tests. It does. It does not matter whether she has a sore throat, a sore toe, a skin rash, a heart murmur, Ebola or Anthrax.
This is the abuse that no one talks about. The hush hush. Someone recently posted about the 1800’s secret government act to kidnap women and subject them to vaginal exams and accuse them of prostitution just for being in the street after dark. Was this the Taliban? This happened in the British Empire. Just the same that thirty years ago I was ambushed at age 20 when I went to get birth control pills. No one would tell me what would happen, even friends. I asked and was given a pamphlet at the clinic that said “the natural sweat of my vagina would be tested for cancer”. No how’s or why’s. I assumed I would just be asked to do a swab.
The abuse has to stop but the experience of Maria is reported as if it was nothing, she was silly or that is does not happen to many young women.
I really think ppl like the Acog fulls this fier. They asume things about womans lifes and think they know whats best for us. Thin doctors are pressuerd to do all recomend screening or fear being sued. Any one man or woman can spreed diease so why arnt guys presuerd to be screend for stds? Another thing the push to treat all woman pre pregnant and keep there body fit and healthy for any baby they may or maynot have.
Because malice is a major motivation for the things they do. This can apply at the leadership level & if it does, it’ll mostly likely multiply the situation. Of course there’s always the potential for the people that make up a group to be more or less the same way, so that’ll make for a broad situation of whatever conditions.
Keeping in mind: Allopathic medicine was never all that life-bolstering. It’s not their way. That supportive, nurturing/nourishing trait that people expect because it would help instead of harm is not the style. It really doesn’t make much difference if the doctor really WANTS to help people or not- since the “dojo” of medicine is not conducive to that.
It’s like a Master’s Degree in bullshit- it’s expertise in something that is sub-par. You’d never see someone brag about getting a black belt in a self-defeating martial art, but I guess that’s why there’s a lot of deception in medicine.
No there really is not too much concern for future fertility. I asked if there were any “tests” for fertility before I got married. The doctor said no just try for 6 months and then come in. They do not want people to know how much fertility treatments cost. Delaying having children just seems what everyone is doing without knowing the costs. This is what is wrong with our society.
Is telling a 20 year old student that she should have a baby before she is 30 years old make any sense when she is coming in for birth control?
It is all about the money.
Look at this disturbing article Dr. Bernstein has about a doctor doing clitoral exams on girls to test their sexual response, Bioethics Discussion Blog: Clitoral Sensitivity Study in Children: A Question of Ethics at http://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2010/07/clitoral-sensitivity-study-in-children.html. I think this is horrible and it is definitely sexual abuse. Maybe some of you can comment on this article.
This is not a porn site. Of course this abuse.
Compassion and support for interesex people and their families.
http://www.isna.org/
Now do they feel about childhood gender assignment and surgeries.
Misty, thanks for linking this article. I agree with your sentiments, and with the ethicists’ comment “we were so stunned that we did not believe it until we looked up his publications ourselves”. Part of the horror for me was how the medical terminology served to misrepresent the truth of the situation. For instance, linking a large clitoris with “disorders of sexual development” is skewed. Are males born with large penises assumed to have sexual development “disorders”? What about males born with small penises? Or girls born with a smaller than average clitoris?
If you consider the same procedure and followups in males it’s a bit easier to see how skewed the assumptions are. 51 girls with a large clitoris were put through operations to “shorten” their clitoris. Would males be put through the same type of surgery if their penis’ were larger than what is considered normal? Following the surgery, the girls were tested to determine clitoral sensitivity, which they called ” Postoperative evaluation for clitoral viability”. Basically this involved touching and using a vibrator on the young girls’ clitoris’, inner thighs, labia minora, and the introitus of their vaginas; and commanding the girls to report the level of sensation. Can you imagine the same “postoperative evaluation” used on a male’s “shortened” penis? Somehow the wrongness of it seems more apparent when considering surgically shortening a male’s penis, and then using a vibrator to test the penis’ sensitivity.
Some of the girls were only six years old. Their parents would be watching. I’m having a hard time understanding how this could have been allowed to happen.
If this isn’t sexual abuse of a child, I don’t know what is!
I hurt my ankle on a night out recently and had to have a pain-killer injection the next day. They sent a male medical student to give it and when I asked for a real doctor or nurse to do it, the nurse on duty said I’d have to wait around 30 minutes. So I just let the student do it.
The shot had to go in my bum. It was bad enough having to drop my trousers and expose my bottom to a stranger, but after he did the injection and put the plaster on, he patted my butt cheek and said ‘You’ve got a really nice bum’. I was mortified! I was too embarrassed to even say anything back.
Don’t let med students practice on you, they might be immature prats like that one.
Sophie- A few things on that for future reference:
The shots don’t HAVE to go in your bum to work. That’s supposedly so that it hurts less & raises less of a bump, due to it being a thicker area than the arm. It seems like shots will WORK in the arm or other areas, but the absorption is different (it seems that you can swallow most of these things over a longer stretch of time, too). It would still work, but they don’t feel like doing extra work & make a big deal out of it.
Actually, it can be dangerous to get a shot in the butt (there’s actually some pretty serious nerves & arteries in that area- getting shot in the butt wouldn’t be comical). Med students that don’t know what they’re doing shouldn’t be doing stuff like this. Same for someone that is distracted by the sight of whoever’s ass.
Another potential reason is blindly following medical doctrine. That’s common with cops & the military, too (it’s called being “doctrine bound”). It’s not uncommon for that to be a sign of stupidity or, at least, that they don’t really know the workings of the situation.
I figure I should mention that a common thing to hear about (at least in the U.S.) with car crashes & falls (or just coming into the E.R. for trauma reasons) is them giving people rectal exams- sometimes forcibly. There was a guy in New York that walked into the hospital for stitches on his head & five of these “people” held him down & probed him, then he went to jail for three days because one of the doctors got hit in the face during the struggle! It sounds like frequently, they just ambush someone when they’re log-rolling someone off the stretcher
Yeah I think shots in the bum hurt less but they seem to hurt more the next day in my experience. I was thinking of making a complaint but I didn’t because he was young and I think, in his own stupid way, he was trying to make me feel better after the injection.
I tweeted about it and you should have seen some of the rubbish I got in response. ‘Take it as a compliment’, ‘Going by your profile pic, I don’t blame him’. One person told me to ‘grow up’.
That story sounds horrible! Poor guy. Why did they even need to do a rectal exam? No matter the reason, no exam should be forced on anyone.
Well, apparently this isn’t actually something viable for the things they say it is & this also wastes that time they’re always complaining about not having. They seem to be of the mind that their alignment toward doing something generates medical utility (notice “utility,” not “necessity”- not to be arrogant, but I think people tend to say one when they mean another). They were attacking the guy in an unconventional way & in an unconventional environment.
You tweeted about this in America, I’m presuming? The sarcasm that just might be literal is something I’m getting sick of. I’ve noticed a general disregard for any problem that goes in a pervy direction, whether it’s a serious one or not. Poses a bit of a risk for anyone, of course- but if you’re hot, obviously that would add to things. Another thing is that Americans always act like things along these lines don’t have any arousal component. That’s a bit like saying murder is never fueled by anger or theft is never financially motivated.
That “grow up” comment is pretty telling, since it’s generally seen as immature to think compositionally or have any bodily autonomy. Same goes for self-protectiveness (which is weird, considering all that talk about freedom & independant decision-making & strong women). I think that plays a big factor in there being an easy & safe environment for things like what happened to that guy in New York.
Sorry if this came off like an anti-American rant, it’s just a major gripe about the area I’m still living in at the moment.
hey check out this blog….very interesting. http://momstinfoilhat.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/when-is-a-person-old-enough-to-refuse-treatment/ I wonder how many of these girls utterly refuse to see a doctor unless they’re an inch from death after going through something like that or how horribly triggering a pap must be :s also what does this teach our little girls about making decisions in regards to their bodies?? “No one is supposed to touch your privates or hurt you there but if it’s a doctor you forfeit all rights to decide what gets done to your body and you’d better just go along with it.” is essentially how it must come across. A six year old may not be able to fully understand the medical aspect of it but she knows that she has said no and someone ignored her and forced their way into her body!! It’s no wonder so many girls get raped/coerced into sex as young women or how many of them are easily brainwashed into the whole pap nonsense after sh*t like that.
Recently, I was having horrible ‘time of month’ pain and I avoided the doctor for this reason. Because so many of them tried to force me into getting pelvic exams when I was there for other reasons, I knew that if I went for this reason, they might try even harder or have someone to hold me down for it. I’ve also heard that if a woman goes to an emergency room for stomach pain and refuses a pelvic exam, she will be sedated and forced to get one. This is just ridiculous.
check out http://madmanbanterings.blogspot.com/ to see how patients view medical procedures. it is amazing that for as intelligent as physicians are, they are so dumb that they don’t get it.
Hi everyone, been a while since I posted.
What do you make of this story?
http://patch.com/california/shermanoaks/plastic-surgeon-acquitted-of-secretly-taping-undressed-female-patients
A plastic surgeon was accused of secretly filming naked women and touching one of them inappropriately.during an exam. He was found not guilty.
The article doesn’t go into much detail, so it’s hard to judge, but it sounds like he may have had a lucky escape.
I’d think he’s screwed. He’s got a hidden camera in his stethoscope- a problem right of the bat. Then he’s doing things that are “inappropriate” (whatever that means) and it’s ON CAMERA- the hidden pervo-cam that he’s got in his stethoscope. What’s he going to say?
The only thing I could think of is: “Oh, I just have that in case of false accusations- that’s why what happened couldn’t have occurred.” Yeah, just like if someone has someone else’s blood on the knife that’s in their hand they couldn’t be the murderer- it would be way too obvious. Wouldn’t suprise me if he tried to play victim somehow, though.
I wanted to share this article: A Headache Doesn’t Require a Vaginal Exam (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/SF-Doctor-Guilty-of-Unneccessary-Pelvic-Exams.html) about how a California doctor, Dr. Rosas told at least 3 of his female patients that a vaginal exam was necessary to diagnose head, neck, and back pain.
Fortunately, the judge found him guilty of sexual assault. It is ridiculous about how this doctor was able to push them into having unnecessary pelvic exam. I know this happens more than we can imagine. This is exactly why there should be so much education for people about how they should not submit to unnecessary intimate exams. I think that every woman should say this when they are pushed into having pap smear for a headache by a doctor : “My genitals are not located in my head so there is no reason for a pelvic exam”.
Misty
One problems is the push for opportunities to do screening. Like hiding behind standard of care. A pap smear for everything is outragus so are random breast exams.
Misty
If this had happened in the 1970s I doubt there would have been a complaint, doctors had enormous power back then. A complaint fell on deaf ears anyway, the Medical Board was there to protect doctors, women were basically told, “doctor knows best, you silly girl”. Doctors were Gods, they got away with it, over and over again. Most assaults and inappropriate conduct still goes unreported, women just change their doctor or avoid them in future.
I’m delighted more women are going to the Police though, and the Medical Board is forced to play catch-up. A dermatologist was assaulting women and taking photos of their genitals/breasts/naked bodies for his collection. This conduct was being called a mole or skin check. A woman told her friend about the “exam”, the friend happened to be a police officer…enough said, he’s now in prison.
How long would it have continued without the involvement of the Police? The Medical Board had already dismissed one complaint, I wonder how many complaints they actually received and fobbed off. I’ll bet it was quite a few…
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rapist-skin-specialists-photo-collection-reveals-sex-obsession-20150411-1milgb.html
I once had a nurse to try to convince me that my respiratory infection might have been caused by STDs and that I must get a pelvic exam right away. I told her that I was waiting so there was no way that I could have an STD. She kept saying “are you sure you have had ANY kind of s_x?” I didn’t tell her, but I have never even been in the room with a naked man so there is absolutely no way that I could have had s_x and not have known. Finally, she then tried to convince me that my respiratory infection might be caused by ovarian cancer. I just let her talk and ignored her.
Sadly opportunistic screening is pushed by the medical community. Some doctors want to do a pelvic for atomic pain even when the woman can tell its her atomic not reproductive organs
Stomach
It can still happen even if you use only female providers all it takes is for you to be unconscious a predators ideal prey. How many women in a coma have been raped and then found to be pregnant (ive read quite a few reports) and still they will send lone male carers to provide intimate care talk about leaving the fox in charge of the chickens.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3017893/Nurse-filmed-raping-unconscious-women-E-department-just-yards-patients-faces-jail-admitting-string-horrific-sex-attacks.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3019399/Unconscious-E-patients-treated-open-areas-hospital-nurse-filmed-raping-anaesthetised-victims.html
One poor lady tried to kill herself when she found out not only did he rape her but he videoed her then police and god knows who else will have had to view her rape, plus it wasn’t the first time a male nurse had raped in that hospital they just keep spewing out the same mantra lessons will be learn t.
I wanted to share an article that a male nurse posted on his blog accusing female patients of sexism if they refuse to let him do intimate procedures on them at http://stevepicray.com/2010/05/21/male-nursing/. Of course, I disagree with him. His comments to a sexual abuse survivor, Jan are very insensitive.
Misty
Misty, the argument they use is flawed, it’s not sexism, this situation is covered by the anti-discrimination legislation in most countries. (that’s why you can advertise for a female changing room attendant etc.)
I also, feel uncomfortable when nurses focus on how they feel, a good nurse, dedicated nurse, puts their patients first, would not be standing there and shouting discrimination because someone refuses his/her services. (for intimate procedures or showering etc.)
It’s the men who shout the loudest that make me very uncomfortable, why are they so concerned they don’t have free and easy access to our breasts and genitals?
I consider these men unsuitable for their jobs, a decent nurse, male or female, is sensitive when it comes to intimate procedures and exposure.
I mentioned on another thread that my mother received highly professional and sensitive care at a local private hospital, patients, male and female, were asked if they had a preference – your nurse is male/female today, would you prefer a female/male nurse to help you shower? These nurses certainly understood that some patients would feel uncomfortable with opposite gender intimate care…IMO, that makes them better nurses.
Some think if you get out breathing, you should be grateful…I disagree, the best doctors and nurses treat the whole person, not just the body, and feelings of embarrassment, humiliation, feeling exposed etc. are all perfectly natural. Not everyone has the same level of concern, but to deny this is an issue, means people get sub-standard care, you can do a lot of damage. If you don’t care about that…then find something else to do.
The You Tube footage of the woman giving birth, that’s ABUSE, an assault. I’m so pleased she’s taking legal action, for too long they’ve gotten away with abusing/assaulting women, some will only learn that consent matters when they end up in court or at the Medical Board. Why is it when a woman is giving birth some medical personnel feel they can do as they please, consent goes out the window?
On Dr Sherman’s site there was a post from an irate father, his 18 year old daughter went into hospital for an emergency appendectomy. A male nurse appeared to shave her pubic area, his daughter asked for a female nurse, and the male nurse argued with her, “I have the same training etc.?
This says to me SLOPPY hospital, why would you put a male nurse or female patient in that position? Someone suggested a chaperone, stupid idea, why tie up 2 members of staff? Just send a female nurse…
The fact the male nurse could not see the problem from the young woman’s point of view or chose not to…is very concerning. Forcing your services onto a reluctant patient, upsetting the patient, or shouting discrimination in this situation is not the actions of a professional. The woman was so distressed she threatened to leave the hospital, fortunately, her father arrived and common sense prevailed, they found a female nurse.
It is frustrating, male entitlement to women’s bodies is still so prevalent in medical culture. Some men enforce their perceived right to access women more than others, it’s not surprising that the male nurse in Misty’s article appears to hold some traditional Christian values about the role of men and women.
I think a major point is that they don’t fear the patient enough. They simply don’t figure that these people can harm them & easily get away with it (especially since the person is likely injured, unconscious, strapped down, handcuffed, or impaired by some substance or disease). They also don’t figure that they can deprive them of their profession or damage it in some way (getting fired or being limited occupationally).
I imagine things would be different if they were entirely blocked from practicing medicine on the first complaint? No investigation, no proof, just accusation & situation. The patient would fire them directly without any intermediary, just like how a boss lays someone off. Plenty of replacements would be made & I’d imagine the whole attitude of the culture would change. Not for nothing, but so much of their job can be done with false advertising & that can be put right on the pill bottle.
Personally, I figure they should stick to reattaching limbs & patching up bullet wounds- all without iatrogenically attacking the patient, of course (remember that guy that walked into the hospital for stitches & was violated with a forced rectal exam?). I think they figure they decide what is or is not an attack & that they basically determine their own culpability.
Several times, growing up and even as an adult, I’ve been asked to undress for unrelated procedures. One of the most recent occurred when I was 22. I went to the doctor for a bad earache and they asked me to remove my shirt and bra. My mother was with me and I asked her “why would I have to remove all of that?” She said “be quiet and stop acting like that – they’re doctors”. Because of her, I did remove my shirt, but I kept on my bra. The male doctor walked in, looked in my ears, prescribed medication, and that’s it. If I’d completely listened to them, I would have been sitting there with my breasts exposed for the male doctor to get his kicks when he wasn’t even examining them to begin with.
“they’re doctors”- Who said they weren’t? Sure, that’s a fact, but so what? I notice a lot of people just add something that is factual into their argument to try to “supercharge” their overall argument. Like saying “Just like how the sky is blue, everything I’m saying is true.” Well, the sky IS blue, but the rest is bullshit. It’s not “brought along for the ride”.
Found this old comment on another healthcare forum:
“As a Male Nurse, I’m subject to this quite a bit. Personally it’s not something that bothers me. I think it’s the right of the patient to feel comfortable with her healthcare provider. Where available I’ll grab a female and do a swap, where unavailable I’ll try and maintain the utmost respect and and minimize situations in which the patient will feel particularly uncomfortable.
As healthcare professionals we should aim to provide holistic care to our patients at all times. Sure, my patient requires a catheter because she’s in urinary retention and very physically uncomfortable. But having a male implement that intervention could actually result in social and emotional issues. So whilst the catheter fixes our physical problem, we create more, that not only result in Health system burden, but can seriously endanger the mental health of our patient.
As much of a pain in the arse it can be, I think that it’s important to be able to meet the requirements of patients. Let’s face it, getting a female to perform the ECG or what ever it is is just as much providing adequate care as you doing it yourself.”
IMO, this is a professional nurse. his patient comes first.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/wa-doctor-on-trial-over-sex-offences-20150914-gjmb43.html
I’m sure some male doctors rejoiced when they heard opportunistic screening was not only encouraged, it would be rewarded with target payments. This meant that any woman, going to the doctor for any reason, could be safely pressured to have a pap test. (hey, coercion was even okay!)
This makes women vulnerable in the consultation room, especially young and/or reserved women, they might feel compelled to screen and might not complain, even about coercion or rudeness/verbal abuse/aggression/extreme pressure or intimidation.
This doctor allegedly did just that, pressured women to have pap tests and/or breast exams when they were there for eczema and other health issues, one victim was only 17.
We’ll never know how many doctors use the pap test to take advantage, I suspect the number would shock us. Some doctors strongly recommend a pap test and breast check, but only to young and/or attractive women. You find with these cases, the victims are almost always young, which says to me the pap test is used to gain intimate access – the test is for the doctor’s benefit/sexual gratification.
I think walk-in clinics can be dangerous, I suspect this sort of conduct is more likely with a woman who just walks in and might not be seen again.
I avoided doctors as a young woman, I viewed them as potential predators, why on earth would I expose myself to the risk? I knew asking for the Pill meant I had to hand my body over to the doctor, even asking for antibiotics might trigger coercion. I know doctors are not all the same, but as a young woman, how could I work out whether it was safe to see a particular doctor? A friend told me a male doctor in Carlton was okay, but when a very attractive mutual friend went to see him for the Pill, she was pressured into the works. You couldn’t even rely on a recommendation, some doctors changed their “requirements” after viewing what was seated in front of them.
Now I have a trusted GP, I see her whenever I feel it’s necessary, it would have been nice to have that option as a young woman.
In the UK you can only get a pap test as part of the programme, ie every 3 years 25-50 and every 5 years 50-65. If the doctor tried doing one in between these times it is refused by the cytology labs, and the woman should hopefully find out she’d had one “for the doctor’s pleasure” by no result coming through. However, to save costs I think it is now the process that all normal results don’t get sent a letter. If you haven’t heard you can assume it’s normal. This leaves the door wide open for unnecessary examinations by predators like Panda. It would be down to the woman to contact her surgery to find out the result of that pap she had recently, and if the receptionist can find no record of any result, this should be ringing alarm bells.
Some people in the UK have private healthcare and in this situation you can get unlimited paps as you want. I know of one young woman who told me she had accompanied her husband for his serious medical treatment on one occasion and was shocked to be asked by his doctor for a pap. She deeply regrets going through with it, but did not want to do anything to damage her husbands relationship with this doctor. It certainly happens and is far more common than the media thinks. That is why I think it is totally wrong to make out this test is all a regular part of being a woman. It is a medical procedure for a rare cancer and it’s use should be limited to just that.
It’s an inaccurate & dangerous medical procedure for a very rare cancer that is over-referenced & likely mistreated if someone actually had. I still don’t get the idea of exposing someone to radiation & toxic chemicals as a treatment method for cancer, since exposure to radiation & toxic chemicals is a way to GET cancer.
I don’t know that there are any sure-fire cures out there, but I definitely think that weakening someone’s body in a disease-ridden environment when they already have health problems is a bad idea.
Speaking of which: I recently heard the idea that fasting (from food & water) is actually very useful for combating illness, since the healthy cells can handle being without those longer than the other ones.
There’s also cold water dousing, which gives the body a little “micro-fever” that kills microbes. The idea is to take a hot shower or stay in a sauna for a bit, then douse yourself with a bucket of cold water or jump into a cold lake. You don’t stay in for long, you just dunk yourself really quick. This is ideally done twice a day, once before noon & once before midnight.
Exactly!
This is the reason that I question the rules in Utah. In Utah, most women wait for marriage due to the religious population there. However, when she is engaged, she is coerced into a pelvic exam as “pre-marital counseling” in order to make sure that her “body is capable of s_x”. How bizarre is that???? Most women are capable of s_x if and when they want it! If it turns out that she is not, let HER figure that out and then decide if she wants to visit a doctor about it or not. Nevertheless, the women marry very young in Utah and most of the doctors are men, so I’m sure that they are enjoying getting to insert objects for the first time into attractive young women and seeing their reactions, especially given that fact that since they don’t divorce much, these doctors wives are considerably older so they are getting a kick out of their day jobs!
Of course, these women can refuse, but because it is an expected part of the whole marriage license program, it would definitely cause a delay in the couple’s plans. Also, the pastors preach about this as the normal way of life for a woman: she remains chaste, gets engaged, applies for license, gets counseling and a pelvic exam. Thus, these women do not see this as a problem.
Wait, the pastors actually preach about this up on the “stage”? Also, if this woman goes & does some role-playing with someone else (man or woman), doesn’t that read as a fidelity issue?
I think woman don’t ADMIT that they see it as a problem, not to tell someone what things land as. It really seems like they try to give the right answer on a test. Of course, someone ELSE is deeming whether that answer is an “A” or an “F”.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/fake-gynaecologist-raffaele-di-paolo-operating-for-more-than-a-decade-in-melbourne-20150317-1m1ghi.html
This man is facing charges for sexual assault on a number of women, incredible that he posed as an IVF specialist gynaecologist for about a decade.
It is crazy because cervical cancer really only comes from having s_x (HPV). Therefore, women that have not had s_x should not even be offered these types of exams as well as women who are monogamous. Women who have had several partners should be offered the exam but never pressured or required, only informed that the exam exists. Also, why is the speculum so large? If an exam was created in which an object had to be inserted into male parts, they would quickly find reason for the exam to be obsolete. Why aren’t there better exams available to screen for cervical cancer?
This is an interesting case of misconduct: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dr-robert-wadden-suspension-1.3256612 The woman was subjected to an “inappropriate pelvic exam” and later went back to confront the doctor. Fortunately she recorded her second visit, and got the dr’s guilty apologies on recorded audio. She submitted the recording to the College of Physicians and Surgeons. Most likely without the recording she would have been silenced and dismissed. Good for her to go back and confront the dr., and record the whole thing.
Here’s another case that stands out, this time because of the horrific details: http://montrealgazette.com/news/college-des-medecins-hears-sexual-misconduct-complaints-against-gynecologist
I feel very sorry for these women, but I think these experiences are just the tip of the iceberg, and for the few who succeed in coming forward, there must be thousands who suffer in silence, too scared and not knowing how to complain about what happened to them. It is very sad that these young women were ever referred to a gyne in the first place. I don’t get this “checking of the ovaries”. I’d never heard of it before coming on this website, yet it seems to be a rite of passage in the US. I doubt most women in the UK could tell you where the ovaries are, let alone think they should be “checked”. It is simply dreadful that women are brought up to think their bodies need this medical probing all the time, and then have it labelled as “empowerment”.
Hi Ada, I’m so sorry for those women. Men should not be gyno’s there’s too much temptation. Its like putting a chicken in a foxes den and asking it to look after the bird. I know women should be able to trust men but they can’t. Its the way of the world.
I’ve been down for a few days. I left comments on the public health site when i saw you guys had. Mine didn’t get past the moderator. I wrote about the lack of choice. My doctors and practice nurses colluding to make out to me the test was mandatory and that thirty years down the line i have been left with a horrible feeling of having been sexually assualted. By not publishing my comments they invalidate my feelings and concerns. I ‘do’ feel this way and the feeling won’t go away.
On two occasions i was left sore and bleeding. If I had turned up at their offices when i was in that state claiming i had been attacked would they have turned me away?
I feel as tho’ public health england should be on my side. There is a programme of mass rape operating under their noses. All of my adult life i have had a sad shadow cast over my life. To have a loving intimate sex life with my husband the price was to be raped periodically to check if he had given me cancer. No ifs or buts it had to be done or no pill. Even tho’ the women here write very vividly we can never know the deep, deep hurt each of us carry with us. Its very painful.
To date i have not found anyone to help. I have spent a fortune on phone calls to solicitors. I have even lost direction with my book i tried writing. Basically they have got away with it.
X
Hi Linda,
Please don’t give up on your book! The excerpt you posted a while back was amazing. I would be extremely pleased to post an ad or review or whatever you wanted to help get your work out there.
Don’t mean to come off like I’m yelling at anyone, butI have to say something: it’s a bad idea to see them as “predator” & yourself as “prey.” It’s kind of like “defeatist” thinking, for one. For another, it can kind of set a tone/demeanor/vibe to things & be like fanning the flames. Same deal if someone’s getting aggressive in a parking lot- it can potentially convince them that they’re something potent, like an accidentally implied cheer or affirmation.
Another thing people forget, besides the concept of Good Wolf vs Bad Wolf, is that “prey” animals kill things all the time. There’s them killing what’s trying to prey on them (moose kicking wolves in the head or tigers getting gored by wild boar, for instance), there’s them killing each other in fights, and there are times where these “prey animals” will scavenge or even kill & eat other animals (like if they need calcium & eat the bones). These animals are just, generally, NON-CARNIVOROUS. Not that they don’t fight & not that they don’t vitiate detriment.
If you want to really be technical, swimming so you don’t drown is an aggressive act. Same with drinking so you don’t die of dehydration. Same with breathing, too.
Linda, please don’t despair over this. We have sown many small seeds and I’m optimistic that we ARE being heard. I noticed only the other day that this is now part of the written advice on the NHS cervical screening web pages:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cervical-screening-test/Pages/Why-it-is-needed.aspx
“Deciding whether or not to have a screening test is your choice. To help you decide, you can also read the NHS Cervical Screening leaflet (PDF, 453kb).
If you don’t want to be invited for screening in the future, contact your GP and ask to be removed from their list of women eligible for cervical screening. If you change your mind at a later date, you can simply ask your GP to put you back on the list.”
And the comments are good to read too.
More and more women are waking up to how unnecessary it all is. For every one person who posts, there are many more who, read, understand and quietly refuse to go through with this testing anymore. Some of us have been harmed, like some people who are harmed in wars, and some have got through unscathed, but like war vets we have a duty to make sure the young have better luck and advice. I have read that screening attendances have now dropped to all time lows, with only about 55% of under 30’s attending smear tests. The latest figures I can find are showing only about 78% in UK have had a test in the last 5 years and these figures are for 2013. I feel sure that this figure must be lower than this for 2015. A meeting on the UK future of cervical screening will take place on 19th November 2015 so stay tuned. Your posts might have been “deleted by the moderator”, but that doesn’t mean they have not been read by those running these barbaric programmes.
Linda, Ada is right! And you are fantastic, getting out there, helping other women and supporting them. Thinking of u x
Thank you friends. This is a great site with brilliant people. I don’t know what I would do without it.
linda,
I am not sure if you’ve had the chance to check out the web site of Medical Patient Modesty (http://www.patientmodesty.org), a non-profit organization that I founded. I also developed the web site, Sexual Misconduct By Doctors (http://www.sexualmisconductbydoctors.com). What kind of book are you writing? Are you from the UK? I am based out of US. I appreciate your contributions here.
Misty
Hi Misty. Thank you for the invite to your sites. I will deff go on them. My book is about my experidnce of smear tests. Its taking ages to write tho as i gave to do loads of research to make sure its right. Plus i get very down alot, so have breaks. Since the invention of kindle we can all put books online. You could even use your own blogs and create a theme round it. Its away of getting our message to a wider audience and to make some money.
There is a book on medical privacy called ‘my angels are come’ by art stump. I thought i might call mine ‘my angels are raping me’
They must be very worried about the future of their programme! With the NHS in crisis can they really afford silly money on their unwanted programme? Women are rejecting it and are not being bullied this time into complying. Is the tide turning??
I really hope by the time my daughter is 25,the pogrom will have been discontinued and women will either be offered self testing kits or will be able to request testing if they want it.no more “invitations “!
Hey everyone, I haven’t posted here for a while, I hope everyone is doing well!
Wanted to post this story about a doctor who allegedly assaulted 23 different women: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3302318/GP-groped-23-women-breast-examinations-jury-hears.html
“Prosecutor Mark Fenhalls QC told Luton crown court today: ‘The women were not his full time patients at his general practice.
‘They were all prospective or current employees of the ambulance or fire service, who were sent to him for the medical examinations. The assaults were subtle and carefully designed by the defendant to appear as part of the examinations. The defendant was taking advantage of young women who were desperate to pass the medical and give themselves the best possible chance of getting a job.
‘Dr Lewis used the pretext of breast examinations and hernia checks to provide cover for the assaults he committed.’
One woman, who was then 18, alleged he removed her bra without warning, was told to lower her jeans before he slid his hand in her underwear. He looked into her thong and asked her to cough. Then, dressed only in her thong, he asked her to bend over for 10 seconds while he said he was checking her ‘spinal alignment’.
A woman paramedic, who was then 24, alleged: ‘He said “I just need to check for a pubic hernia” and put his hand in my knickers. The bra was removed to check for sites of potential cancers … polishing headlights springs to mind rather than the normal breast exam. He massaged my breasts while I am lying flat on my back.'”
If these things are true, I hope the devious, perverted, opportunistic little man gets locked up for a long time!!
Poor girls. Hope they’re okay now.
Not for nothing, but I’d think THEORETICALLY these guys would bust him up & maybe get a little creepy. Like a bunch of firemen just hauling-off & beating the fuck out of the guy- spaknings might be involved.
Read this article. Notice some of the assaults took place WHILE a nurse was present. Also, note, the patient and doctor were screened from the nurse by the “modesty screen.” I find this disturbing.
Reminds me here about the stupid “privacy tarp” we’re provided. This only serves to provide a barrier so we can’t see how doc is molesting us. Neither can hubby or advocate unless they physically view to the side or over the doctor’s shoulder [how many doctors (male) will say it makes them uncomfortable?–if unchallenged they develop a mindset that while in “his” exam room he’s superior to the husband. I don’t think this is a stretch in some of these ego minded god type men who couldn’t get laid otherwise]. Another problem is that docs can use that tarp to take pictures or explore more than they are supposed to examine.
Virginity testing is taking place in testing in Sweden, this misogynistic practice is another example of the lack of respect for women’s privacy and bodily integrity by health practitioners in so called progressive countries.
http://girlsglobe.org/2015/10/29/our-bodies-our-rights-virginity-testing-in-sweden/
The article doesn’t specify, but I wonder if there are any specific ethnic or cultural factors involved in those requesting virginity tests…….
My thoughts entirely, Hex, but in many countries the pap test becomes a virginity test in kind. In the UK, being a virgin is one reason you can give to a doctor to exempt yourself from having to undergo an “on-the-spot” pap smear if you haven’t been having them. Since most docs think women are lying they might ask for further details of your sexual encounters to know that you have an understanding of the subject. These details are put in your medical notes, and on a national database, and will often be discussed at future appointments. So unless a woman finds out how to opt out of the programme, ongoing virginity questions can be a feature throughout her life. Same thing happens in South American countries, where pap smears are required for civil service careers and military. A woman does not have to be muslim to find her virginity is questioned and can compromise her career or access to healthcare.
Si, this is a great article. I’m going to circulate it as much as possible.
Adawells this is scary! I’ve always answered questions such as “when was your last period? “automatically even if the reason for my consult was not gynaecological. I never thought about it, much less that it was logged on a data base! Why would anyone, other than the individual woman, be interested in such things? Sadly though you’re right, big brother is watching. I’ll be a lot more careful in future!!
http://www.peteraclarke.com.au/2013/12/05/gp-surgery-manager-prosecuted-for-accessing-patient-records/
Have a look at this story about a young admin assistant who seems to have spent a good deal of time reading the medical records of young women. Wasn’t too bothered by the old ladies with their arthritic knees and the like, just the ones of child-bearing age whose appointments would have been about you know what…
From what I have researched about the NHS cervical screening programme, reasons for not taking a smear must also be entered into the patients notes:
thttp://www.wmciu.nhs.uk/documents/Cervical_Cytology_Read_Codes_March_2012.pdf:
The doctor is also under the control of the programme, in that they have a set number of codes to put in and they have to follow you up after a set time, and enter codes for the situation in your vagina at every stage of your life. All on a national database. It’s an appalling waste of time and money.
Uhm no it is not at all a waste of time but matter of biopolitics and governmentality
I noticed a walk in clinic I went to before asked the last pap date and it was on a computer data base. I told them I didn’t have pap smears and it totally stompt the nurse who could not proved with other health questions until a date was typed in. I was like wow.
So you getting healthcare is contingent on providing answers that are deemed applaudable?
What happens if this computer doesn’t get an answer that “unlocks” the rest of its abilities? How does one get past this?
This type of coercion concerns me. If this ever happens to me I am going to sue the Ontario government. I will not be denied medical services because I refuse to participate in cancer screenings or answer questions about my vagina, breasts, colon that do not relate to my current medical need.
By the way ladies my daughter made me a WordPress blog and it changed my gravatar from lilac to this green but really I’m still kat rehman of old!
Well, at least it was actually referenced as something assualtive- instead of just covering for the medical personnel & everything they do.
Hi everyone
I’m reading along but have very limited Internet access at the moment. I’ll be back online later in the week. Linda, I’ll put something together for your book, the only problem for me will be the word limit! Great idea too…
It has been a while since I’ve posted here. I wanted to share a very encouraging testimonial from Really prefer to keep that private (Female Patient) From Minnesota who fought for her rights to have an all-female team and her husband present for her hysterectomy at http://www.patientmodesty.org/testimonials.aspx. Many hospitals will not allow you to have your spouse or personal advocate not employed by the hospital and I am so glad she successfully fought for that. Patients under anesthesia are very vulnerable to sexual abuse because the medical industry basically gives you no rights while you are under anesthesia.
Misty
It sounds like this woman underwent a completely unnecessary hysterectomy.
Hi Misty,
It’s nice to see you. The testimony by ‘Really prefer to keep that private’ is a wonderful success story and I appreciate you sharing it. The staff in the first hospital were not going to allow her husband in the operating room, end of story. Reading about the reaction from staff was awful, especially given the woman’s history. Fortunately your site motivated her and her husband to forge ahead in search of a different doctor and as a result she was spared any further trauma.
I was not clear about the need for a hysterectomy given the information, but that is a separate issue. The fact the husband was with her throughout and her success in stopping the use of sedation, made for a very happy ending!
Your tips for patients, information about Versed and other unnecessary interventions are valuable reading. I agree that patients under anesthesia are very vulnerable . . . and success stories are unfortunately extremely rare. Good for you Misty.
Sue XO
Sue,
That was an encouraging testimony! I definitely wondered why she had a hysterectomy. It was unclear about exactly why she needed a hysterectomy. My article on hysterectomy that her husband apparently found at http://patientmodesty.org/hysterectomymodesty.aspx addressed the fact that about 85% to 90% of hysterectomies are unnecessary. There is a link to article about why hysterectomies are often unnecessary.
Of course, the main thing is I am happy she fought for her rights to modesty and for her husband to be present for surgery.
Misty
How can I be certain?