The Other Side of the Speculum: A Male Doctor’s Point of View

  • Hang on to your knickers and read what a Doctor has to say on the subject of pap smears and pelvic exams.  What follows is a comment from written by a Doctor that uncovers an honest and all-male point of view (Warning: may be disturbing to some readers):
    Apr 07, 2010 at 4:08 am


    I’ve read several of the posts here, and just wanted to get a few things off my chest . . .

    I am a doctor myself, in a smallish town in the midwest. I’m in a specialty where we do not do pelvic exams, but of course I was trained in how to do them while in medical school. It has always bothered me, for a couple of reasons, but the male/female thing has been the main thing originally. I always got a small, secret thrill out of doing a pelvic exam (or a breast exam, for that matter) on an attractive woman. Because we were told that “it’s not sexual,” “it’s just a medical procedure, nothing sexual about it, no reason to have sexual thoughts,” I though I was weird. I didn’t worry that much because I knew I wasn’t going into an area where I would do exams, but…

    Then, during residency, I worked with a lot of doctors in the community, and discovered that, for most of them, it WAS at least partly sexual: they would sit around in the lounges and such and sometimes discuss the anatomy of beautiful women who’d been in, and on two occasions discussed, in front me and everyone else, the sexual anatomy attributes of women who worked in the hospital, nurses and such that were mutual acquaintances. I was horrified! I have to say, too, that many doctors, when I asked (because it bothered me), talked about it like, “Oh, it’s just another test to have to do, kind of boring, really.”

    Still, the inescapable fact is that a guy likes to look at a naked woman. Period. Doctors are no different. They like to look at naked women, too. So, if they get PAID to look–I mean, really LOOK–at a woman’s sexual organs, and even better, they get to touch them, well… So much the better! I’m not saying that doctors do exams just to get a sexual thrill, because the circumstances really don’t allow a full-out sexual experience, but given a choice between doing a lung exam on an 80-year-old guy or a pelvic exam on an attractive 30-year-old woman, I’d say most docs would MUCH rather do the latter. They’re only human. They would flatly deny having any such thoughts (in most cases), but deep down, they ARE men, after all.

    So, I think sometimes part of what prompts docs to urge women to have more testing is, that secretly they kind of like doing it. The money doesn’t hurt (i.e., they get paid to do it). In terms of pap smears being unnecessary for post-hysterectomy women, they also probably often just don’t know–there are several things in my specialty which GPs do wrong, all the time, even though they should know better. The ACOG recommends that even without doing pap smears, women have pelvic exams regularly, to screen for various cancers that are of very little risk. I’m sure part of that is just the “hyperscreening” that we’ve gotten sucked into, part of it is the money, and part is the male domination of women (gives you a great chance to stand there, fully clothed, with a woman who is naked and in a vulnerable position), and the chance to look at and touch naked women.

    My wife (my second wife) and I got married last year, just past age 50 (for both of us). She had a hysterectomy (for benign disease) nearly 20 years ago. Before we married, she got kind of funny one day, then when I asked about what was wrong she admitted that she had had to make an appointment to “get my pap smear,” which she felt guilty for missing for the previous few years. I informed her she didn’t need one any more, and she told me I was wrong, that her gyn had told her she DID need them YEARLY, even though she’d had a hysterectomy. I showed her the research and persuaded her not to go back, ever, to that gyn.

    Later, in looking at her records myself, I find that she had a small cyst removed from her back a few years ago. The surgeon did a complete pelvic exam as part of the physical before surgery. A VERY complete pelvic exam. There was no need for that (he did NOT record anything other than lungs, heart, breasts, and pelvic exam on his H&P report). A couple of years later she had a small cyst removed from her shoulder. THAT surgeon (a different one) did a complete breast exam as part of her H&P. My wife works in the hospital, with all these doctors (she’s in administration). She had her first colonoscopy last year, and the GI doc did a complete pelvic exam as part of her exam. Again, no medical reason to do that. She is not unattractive (not a magazine-model stunner, but attractive–I think she’s the most attractive woman in the world, but realistically she’s average attractiveness).

    In my office, I am now doing a small study. I’ve asked women who come in (either as patients or as family members of patients) who are aged 30-60, who have had hysterectomies, whether they have continued to have pap smears/pelvic exams and whether their doc has recommended they still have them. I rank them as “attractive,” “not unattractive,” or “unattractive,” being aware this is a judgement call and not really PC (but the ones I’ve judged “unattractive,” I think everyone would agree, are really not attractive at all). So far, I’ve had 14 women agree to answer my questions, and the results have stunned me: of the 4 unattractive ones, all were told they no longer need to have pap smears/pelvic exams, because of their hysterectomies (even though for one, the hyst’y was for cancer, meaning she DOES need to continue exams). Of the 4 “not unattractive,” 3 have continued to have paps/pelvics irregularly (not yearly but every few years, at least), and 2 told me their doc told them they needed them, in one case “yearly” (and her doc was the same one who told 2 of the unattractive ones not to bother with exams any more, including the 1 who had had cancer)–the other 2 never asked and were never told anything by their doc. Of the “attractive” ones (all of whom had hyst’y for benign disease), only 2 have continued paps/pelvics, but all told me their doctors have continually told them they need to come in for regular exams, including pap smears and pelvic exams (interestingly, all but 1 had the same doctor who’d told 2 unattractive ladies not to come back). My wife’s (previous) gyn had told one of the unattractive ladies not to have further paps/pelvics, and 1 of the attractive ones she really, really needs them regularly (and she has, until our discussion).

    Make your own judgement there, but that’s one more reason to be skeptical of attempts to get women to have regular exams. If I were a woman, I would not go to a male doc for such an exam, ever.


About forwomenseyesonly

Hi. My name is Sue and I am interested in promoting holistic and respectful health care.
Gallery | This entry was posted in doctor abuse, medical sexual misconduct, pap test, pelvic exam and tagged , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

728 Responses to The Other Side of the Speculum: A Male Doctor’s Point of View

  1. dépaysement says:

    Thank you for posting this. I’m having heart surgery soon and now I’m forewarned in case they try to pull this stunt on me.

  2. Mary says:

    I think as a doctor you would know that your “study” is not by far a clinical study. There are so many reasons beyond just a hysterectomy that would require continuing exams. Im not a doctor just a mom and have had many exams having kids and regular exams or medical problems. One reason a woman would need to continue having exams is the type of hysterectomy she had. Does she still have her cervix? If so she needs exams. And if anybof the so called unattractive women who have been told they dont need exams and still have a cervix then they need a lawyer. I do however think your research should continue but refined clinically with a higher attention to other factors that are very pertinent.

    • Eddie Kester says:

      Pertinent…lung cancer and heart disease kill more women than sex organ cancers. Yet…those check ups and exams are not the hyper focus that sex organ check ups and exams are. Pertinent – mammograms expose breasts to 1,000 more doses of radiation than chest x rays…yet they are still being called for every year starting at age 40, despite the AMA’s recommendation to start at age 50 and not yearly. There has been so much intimidation and fear sold to women, because women are compliant. Women do not tend to question the medical establishment…in fact they tend to get very defensive when anyone suggests they should question the male dominated medical establishment. My wife has stopped all these useless exams, preferring to only go to the doctor, like men do…when she is symptomatic.

      • Penelope says:

        Hello Eddie Kester:

        Thanks so much for commenting on our site. You tell it like it is. I’ve seen you comment once before. It’s refreshing to find men who are on “our side” regarding this sham of an exam. IF these sham artists really were concerned about the health and emotional well being of their female patients, they would push and offer self-testing kits. They would be honest and provide informed consent to their patients – the truth that is – even though they know they know will flatly refuse the “exam.” They know women don’t want to be subjected, but – they’re having too much fun – getting too much profits – having too much of a power trip – female gyno’s included. I think they can reap the same profits with alternative testing that has nothing to do with them going between their patients’ legs and into their sex organs. The person – Mary – that you responded to still doesn’t get that. She’s still – as the ladies on this site refer to – a sheeple. Just as you said – blindly following the male dominated profession of medicine. Every now and again we get sheeple like Mary who think they can undo all of the thousands of comments on this site that are against pelvic exams and pap smears. Truly unbelievable.

        You’ll be glad to know that as of 2015, about 80% of incoming gynecology students are female. But I see they need to be educated even further to not repeat the behavior of the current female and male gyno’s. So, this field is becoming not so male-dominated. There are still too many males though at the top of ACOG who make decisions, but they are feeling the pressure to change. Yes, the sheeple deny the truth. They don’t want to believe the truth – for various reasons, I believe they are afraid of feeling the shame of realizing that they didn’t have to let their male gyno put their hands up in them for 15 years or however long they were going to them. They think that since they were overexposed during natural childbirth and didn’t speak up then that there’s no point in having self respect around male gynos or ob/gyn’s anymore. Then, there are the females who actually like the exam – but won’t admit it. They are self proclaimed upstanding members of their respective communities and wouldn’t dream of revealing such a shameful truth. I guess their doctors’ name is Dr. Feelgood. They don’t mind whoring themselves out every 1-3 years to the attractive doctor. I’ve read at least one story from a male gyno on another site who has a patient like that…she stripped naked and refused the gown…but I don’t think he was getting his jollies from her behavior – he wasn’t attracted to her – so he implies – and he was more afraid of a lawsuit I think. I don’t see too many attractive male gyno’s. Their website pictures range from truly creepy to perverted and arrogant looking. Even if there are attractive gyno’s out there – young and still in residency, maybe or silver haired devils – this makes the women who go to them – whores to their gyno’s – and the gyno’s evidently enjoy their harem. Attractive or not, they are disgusting. So, for the women who keep going – it’s a sad and perverted and – deranged reality.

        Alot of men with significant others – wives, fiances, girlfriends – don’t know and don’t want to know about this sham of a profession. It’s still women’s business to them. Yes, ignorance is bliss, alright. I don’t understand men who are there with their wives in natural childbirth and allow all those cervical checks by the male doctors – or even female nurses. I’ve researched and found that they aren’t necessary or conducive to natural childbirth.

        It is very good that you have educated yourself. Those who find out – find out by surprise and take it very deeply – very personally. Just so you know you’re in good company, there is a site called Topix – How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists. Look at the first few years of comments. The current comments for the last how many pages have been dominated by two male commenters at war with each other (the other desperate to get the word out about female doctors and nurses molesting men….it may happen but he picked the wrong site for that…..) and the site administrator needs to get control. But, start from the beginning – the previous comments are from husbands who are devastated, undeniably outraged, and truly heartbroken to learn that for how many years their wives were handled in this way. They see it for what it is – another man in a white lab coat touching his wife’s sex organs. At least one man was ready to divorce his wife when he pleaded with her and he learned that she won’t stop going. He said it was basically like cheating, but she insists on going. A sheeple. It broke his trust with her and their marriage according to him is on the rocks.

        Really, really, really appreciate your wife, then, and her decision to stop going – it means more than you may know. Give her an extra hug and kiss. For this, she’s worth it.

        Please, Please, Please keep up with our site. By how you’ve handled Mary back there, you’re clearly a welcome asset. Be blessed.

      • Kleigh says:

        I only go if I were symtomatic. The down fall that’s worth it for me is I hate when they asume question dates of last physicals Pap smears then belittle you for not having them. I think this makes a lot of woman avoid seeking care for unrelated things bc these clinics belittle woman who don’t go for sexual health exams / screenings. It’s absolutly disrespectful.

  3. Susan in Miami says:

    Male gynecologists do get aroused. It happens when the examination is underway, AND it also happens while an attractive lady is asked questions about her sexual health. Discussing the ability to climax sometimes leads to advice about a woman’s g-spot. In NO way will I discuss this with anybody but my husband. Labeling a husband as “jealous” or insecure is blatant disrespect.

  4. katrehman says:

    Absolutely Susan! I would refuse to discuss my sex life if my doc asked. I have already refused to discuss my menopause when he brought it up!

    • Susan in Miami says:

      Good for you Katrehman! If a woman is married, come on get a grip: this is a matter between her and her husband! A male dr asking you sexual questions before OR after menopause is invasive. I have a good friend that was asked by her male GYN if she needed help finding and understanding her g-spot. Her husband was livid!

      The exam can be done by a female DR or nurse Practioner. If a woman has time, she can do research, locate a female OB/GYN and respect her husband’s feelings, in addition to respecting her own body. You don’t have to be a fundamentalist Christian woman to avoid a male GYN. Any woman who values the intimate bond with her husband can figure this out… And many are changing to female docs all the time.

  5. katrehman says:

    Susan in the UK we don’t have yearly well woman exams. I have refused the smear test for 16 years and last year refused my first mammogram. I refused to discuss menopause in the middle of medication review for something not hormonal related.

  6. katrehman says:

    I’m very much the sort of person, if I wish to discuss it I’ll bring it up. If I’m asked about something not relevant to the issue I have I probably won’t answer. I don’t want details of my menopause typed into a database for everyone to access!

  7. MacInnes says:

    I work as an “Allied Health Professional.” I have in the acute care environment for most of the last 30 years. Based on things I’ve seen and heard, when my wife has her well woman exam I am there, in the room. If they don’t “allow” it we find another provider. Very little resistance, usually it’s the nurse/MA who doesn’t like it. The same goes for any unclothed exam from a male provider. Serious emergencies are of course the exception. As a rule we attend nearly all of each other’s visits anyway, regardless of the reason. So yes, she’s been to my prostate exams as well

    • Susan in Miami says:

      MacInnes, I don’t think I will accompany my husband for prostate exams. His physician is a male, no boundaries are crossed there. As for my husband being with me for well woman exams, we have a trust there, too. I only deal with females on this, my physician is female as are her nurse practioners. In discussing anything intimacy related about my body and my libido, that is also only done with female professionals. The only male I discuss this with is my husband, and he is so appreciative of that!

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        So what you’re really saying is, you assume your husband is seeing a heterosexual doctor and ditto for yourself. If you have questions about his care, you assume he represents you, and ditto for him.
        Don’t mean to insult, this is a legit question. Are either or both of you afraid to accompany the other for med care? How do you believe you can advocate for each other in time of crisis if you have no idea nor experience with that person along with his/her doctor?
        Do you prefer your husband stay outside your medical care? And do you prefer not to get involved is his care? Would you feel uncomfortable with him naked or him seeing you naked?
        At one time I was as you are. My husband but then-boyfriend insisted on going to my gyn appointments. And me to his. He was appalled at seeing me blackmailed into rushing a yearly gyn appt so I could get antibiotic. He felt same at listening to the doctor asking me the same question time again by rephrasing. He became furious at seeing another doctor physically come out of the pre-screen area to check me out before deciding to perform a full exam.
        He quickly put an end to these things and began actively advocating for me. In the process I learned to stand up for myself. To treat these doctors as hired help and not as gods.
        Then I suffered a spinal injury.
        My husband had to quit his job to care for me full time. He has on many occasions got into arguments with doctors, and even taken my abuse before I realized he was right…
        Why do I stress this to you?
        Last weekend in San Diego CA, a doctor named Naga Raga Thota was arrested for dishing out Schedule II drugs, getting patients addicted, and then taking advantage of them sexually. He’s out on $100K bail and facing 20 years.
        My husband never trusted him. He felt this man didn’t respect boundaries. They argued several times as my husband would step in or speak up when he felt this doctor was being abusive.
        One of the reasons this perv fired me as a patient was the “over-protectiveness of your husband.”
        I hope this influences you and your husband to reconsider things.

  8. Allison says:

    I’ve always wondered about that. Dr’s insisting I need pelvic exams regularly just because. Thank you for telling it like it is!

    • Susan in Miami says:

      Allison, I am not up to speed or convinced about doing away with pelvic exams. My female dr says better safe than sorry up to a certain age.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        I’d do some reading, Susan, I don’t have pelvic exams, never have, and thankfully, they’re not recommended here in Australia. (I’d refuse them anyway)
        Knowing the evidence, it’s surprising your doctor would say it’s better to be safe than sorry, we know this exam leads to false positives, unnecessary procedures, and even unnecessary surgery. American women have more than twice the number of hysterectomies and oophorectomies than women in countries who don’t do RPEs.
        Dr Carolyn Westhoff, US Ob-Gyn, partly blames the routine pelvic exam for this concerning statistic.
        So, IMO, there’s risk attached to this exam….and it’s of poor clinical value, it’s not a screening test for ovarian cancer or anything else.
        It’s certainly a matter for you, but I think it’s important to go into these exams knowing what they can and can’t do, in other words, make an informed decision.
        I know if a doctor said that to me, “better to be safe than sorry” to justify the exam, I’d be out the door, I’d assume they were out-of-date/incompetent.
        Doctors who promote/do the RPE or routine breast exam should be getting express informed consent too, neither of those exams are recommended here, so doctors should make sure they explain to the patient why THEY recommend it and go over the risks and benefits (if any) – does the woman consent to the exam? (after the run down of risks and benefits?)
        All the best…

      • ADM says:

        Hi Susan, in a review of 70 years of literature it was found that the routine pelvic exam was of low clinical value in that it did not effectively detect ovarian or uterine cancer and there was not a decline in death rates from reproductive cancers. The American College of Physicians states that asymptomatic women do not need routine pelvic exams. As Elizabeth said they can cause harm in that they can lead to unneeded invasive testing and even surgery.

      • Susan in Miami says:

        All good information, good to be informed. Maybe the new female doctors coming into practice are doing the right thing by reducing pelvic exams. By cutting back on excessive testing, etc. The issue of male doctors examining, probing, and questioning female patients is another concern, because more male doctors are revealing that they do encounter arousal when examining and discussing sexual topics with patients they see as attractive. That boundary being crossed is hurtful to husbands that feel the way my husband feels, and I won’t go to a male gynecologist because of that. I get to choose, there are plenty of qualified female doctors, and I chose to honor my bond with my husband. He’s not insecure or overly jealous, he’s confident in his manhood. My body is his to see naked, my sexuality is his to discuss, and no other male gets that opportunity. My choice.

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        Have you ever heard of a female doctor being of the l-e-s-b-i-a-n persuasion? Male doctors cannot hide their stupid grins when sexually aroused in a clinical setting. Lesbians handle this just fine. So when you find your favorite female doctor performing a very thorough exam for no better than the same reasons than a male gyn would, if she prefers your husband not be near the “business end” of the table, if you notice her questions aren’t much different than a male’s, perhaps consider she may be bisexual or lesbian. I know of people who have been molested by women. Particularly one woman doctor or nurse in an all-female crew.
        Try to remember. Authority corrupts, and absolute authority corrupts absolutely.
        Women wildly outnumber men in the medical field. Remember this too. A woman high up the chain of command, who does molest, will do so untouched. Any employee who decides to play whistleblower is committing career suicide. With that in mind, don’t have confidence that you’re safe just because women are in charge of your care.
        There is a woman who rants about “medical modesty.” She is on the outside looking in at the medical industry. She does not understand how things work. Segregated care, females taking care of females or men taking care of men, invites abuse.
        It’s best to have mixed sexes involved in care. It’s also best for family members to carefully watch over patients. Never go into a medical setting without an advocate. Make sure your advocate has your written HIPAA release and can access any part of your file at any time for any reason.
        What MacInnis says is right and true. It’s the best protection. Another reason for an advocate is protection from any doctor’s meddling and undue influence through “shared decision making.”
        I don’t understand why anybody disagrees with his opinion. I too have seen my husband’s prostate exams. As he’s seen my cervix… I have felt his prostate as well as he’s felt my innermost organs too.
        Take an hour and research tantric sexual message.
        The technique involves messaging our breasts exactly as is done during a breast exam; including nipple stimulation (our nipples are pinched or twisted). The technique also involves messaging inside our vaginas, checking for knots, tightness, numbness, etc, our clitoris, g-spot, anterior and posterior fornix, anus… What does the gyn do? During the pelvic s/he messages or “palpates” as they like to say, or “appreciates,” (ha!–how sickening-saw lesbian doc say this to an attractive young woman on youtube pelvic video) each of these organs. Sometimes it’s the rectovaginal which supercharges the sexual stimulation our bodies receive.
        When the fornix or our cervix itself is “palpated,” we automatically arouse, engorge, and lubricate. Same with the g-spot. And anus. And as we know our labia and clitoris. Did you know that while in the stirrups you automatically engorge several times over five minutes? We especially engorge when initially touched with lubricated fingers before penetration. This is why we’re told to breathe deeply. To resist the desire to clamp down or thrust in response.
        A female doctor knows this better than any male. While the male sees this any may be aroused or be scared knowing what’s going on, the female doctor is different. Notice, never have any been arrested, charged, nor convicted. Who is going to believe us when we feel we’ve been molested? Same as when a male has his genitals handled by a gay doctor.
        There’s always the argument we became aroused, and wrongfully blamed the doctor. But the heterosexual setting of female patient and male doctor? The lesbian district attorneys can’t wait to file charges.
        It IS the doctor’s job to inquire about the quality of our sex lives and menopause. It’s the manner of how this is done vs us inquiring on our own.

      • Susan in Miami says:

        You have a valid point about a doctor possibly being a lesbian. I chose a married female doctor, she has children of her own. That’s no guarantee but my sense and my guy tells me I’m not in the hands of a lesbian. But I get your point, well said.

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        So happy to hear from you. If you don’t mind, allow me to elaborate some.
        I don’t know if you trim, shave, or leave it be. Or like me you go to great lengths to be not only neat and tidy but clean enough for your husband as well. There are doctors who deliberately seek out patients like us. If we allow it, the exams we’ll receive will be extremely invasive and lengthy. Have you read examples of that here? Have you experienced it? Or heard of it? If so, please share. We all need to learn from each other.
        It’s normal for us to have pain & pressure come ovulation. Yet, if we’re skinny and attractive reporting this leads to the unexpected. Now, I understand if there’s a family history, or a genetic disposition that by a certain age things can go bad fast. But asymptomatic; no history? Have you seen the news stories of a doe-eyed young woman, wide eyed and flushed because you know what exam she just endured. She’s been made to feel like her gyn has saved her life and she’s now programmed that every year, months in advance, she’ll plan for her exam. Her doctor, not her, or her husband nor anything else, now has priority over body.
        Words like “possibly serious”, “must rule it out,” “if it were me I’d want,” “it’s my duty to recommend,” “you’re gambling your life if you don’t immediately do this…” and I’m sure there’s many others. It’s happened to me.
        An orthopedic wanted to perform a full pelvic as my pre-op physical. My husband said no way; then later he told me about the doctor and his assistant grinning while talking about me. Was that doctor mad at hubby when he got the negative news too. I didn’t know any better. I’d have granted permission.
        I’ve seen ob nurses tell first-time prospective fathers they “aren’t needed” in the exam room while whisking the mom to be away. And they wonder why divorces follow births.
        My husband needed hernia surgery. Working in the medical field, he shaved himself bare at home. Washed with Hibiclens. At hospital, he was sedated and tied to the table as is usual. Four older, experienced female nurses came off lunch, ripped the untied gown off him, and proceeded to… One began a hand job while another held his testicles. The other two watched. He could not see them as his eyes were covered. He could not move. While painting his abdomen with the orange goo, the nurse who had held his nuts dropped it twice. The second time it hit the floor. She joked about the 3 second rule applying. They all laughed.
        Before he climaxed, he flipped them off with both hands. Almost immediately he felt someone approach from behind his head. He felt his IV line move and his arm felt cool. Then he woke up in Recovery. It took six years before he could talk about it. I’m the only lover he’s had. He said there was no way he would give them the satisfaction of seeing him spray. He commented to me the nurse knew very, very well how to rub the right way.
        I don’t remember if on an earlier post I discussed how a breast/pelvic exam completely parallels and matches what happens in tantric sexual message. If not, I will explain it. You’ll be shocked.
        Long ago we decided to made all healthcare and birth control decisions together. It was mainly his insistence, but I’m glad. This has been very bonding.
        We have in writing that each of us can step in as the other’s advocate and make decisions. This was written on a private attorney’s stock. Written to give us power, not the hospital. This was done after how my husband was treated after one of my neck surgeries. A female RN literally threatened to catheterize me if I didn’t urinate after surgery on a very hot day. I had been given a hypnotic. She took a grunt one would make defecating as a “yes.” When my husband tried to speak for me he was verbally abused and made to leave.
        I hope you at least sign HIPAA releases for you and hubby (vice versa). If not, forget him being able to do anything for you if you’re incapacitated.
        If you attend each other’s office visits, have the actual patient explain that your feedback and participation is desired; and that the patient wants the other to see the exam. Not be on the other side of the room nor be told to leave.
        Watch how the doctor behaves. Does he/she become uncomfortable? Not welcome questions? Is the exam rough?
        Also, just to be fair. I’ve had parents tell me that gay male nurses were extremely considerate versus lesbians who were cold and unfeeling.
        It was my husband who finally respectfully told the doctor I wanted an alternate to pap scrape. It was one of the best days of my life.

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        You are your own perfect example why you need to self-educate and take control of your body from a medical standpoint. This garbage reason, from a female doctor no less, is the same stupidity we’re fed about pap scrapes…”well, you never know.” The thing is, does she really know anything about you to ensure your safety or to provide you even a hair’s worth of insurance in the 10 minutes she spends with you every year?
        Allow me to ask, are you heavy or skinny? If heavy, she cannot feel your internal sex organs no matter how she claims she can. The internal exam, in that case, is done to elicit patient reaction. Do you feel pain? Bloat? Did you know the pap scrape has only 53% accuracy?
        Did female doc tell you that? If not, why is she pushing an exam on you that at very best is hit or miss every time? For women, this statistic is acceptable?
        Do you know your family history? Do you carefully follow what you eat? Drink? Do you understand and monitor your bloodwork? Do you feel you have a satisfying sex life? Do you climax? If not, have you tried to self-educate as to why?
        Here’s another. I require Schedule II pain meds. Not one doctor told me these block sex hormones. Not my gyn. You’d think that person would know? When that jerk wanted to do an endometrial biopsy, I was deliberately lied to as to how painful it would be. Then the idiot tried to talk me into a repeat. Did the doc care about me? NO. It was my husband who rescued me.
        He demanded the doc provide me full informed consent. At that point doc backed off.
        My husband discovered and informed me that pain meds block sex hormones. My doc? Suggested porn movies and different lubes.
        Did you know this? That as we age, our vaginas become lax? Even if we have C-sections instead of vaginal birth. Then comes menopause. Accompanying that is yeast trouble, collagen reabsorbtion by our bodies, our clitoris and labia disappearing, etc. Suddenly my husband could not feel anything inside my normally very tight vagina.
        Doc? Might as well have consulted a Magic 8 Ball.
        Hubby found out for me I need to have the ThermiVa treatment.
        Make your husband or your lover your advocate; and become that person’s advocate.
        Forget trusting your doctor. Because, you never know.

  9. flyingsquirrel says:

    So you told your wife to avoid a doctor who’s doing exactly what you do: taking advantage of his patients simply because of their gender? Christ’s sake. Straight people are weird.

  10. Gordon says:

    My wife has recently been to hospital to have a cystoscopy up her urethra. This is a tube that is inserted through her urethra and into her bladder so the doctor can visualize the inside of her bladder. There were 3 male doctors in the examination room and a nurse. I understand why she needed it but cannot get the thought of another male touching my wife`s intermit area.
    My wife thinks I am stupid for thinking the thoughts I do and says I have to get over it but I am waking up with these thoughts in my head. I could understand if in the examination room there was a doctor and nurses present.

    • Cat&Mouse says:

      First, what bothers me greatly re female ob-gyns is how they willingly “go along” with and also reinforce the status quo. I’d expect these women to boldly protect their female patients from excessive and unnecessary pain. But it isn’t so. Sadly, sickeningly, these women also coldly declare certain procedures like the endometrial biopsy or being dilated for an IUD are just horrible things we need to accept. That thinking is malignantly wrong. I use the word “malignantly” not as a declaration of cancer but to emphasize the extreme level of “wrong” thinking demonstrated. Plus, how the same doctor applies this contaminated reasoning in evaluating other areas.
      We have major responsibilities. Researching prior to appointments or procedures what to expect. This can be done via youtube. Keeping the doctor’s thought processes, regarding pain, parallel or respective to our own. How we’re given, plus ensuring so, full disclosure so we truly can make informed decisions. This is where knowledge is key. Is doctor being truthful or BS’ing me? Am I really being provided pre-procedure sedation/narcotic pain management or placebo speech? Make sure pain management protocols are followed.
      We feel the best way to accomplish the above is to always bring an educated advocate and/or spouse along. Request and sign a HIPAA release; then insist that person is at your side at all times. Tell the doctor your advocate has your permission to comment and/or ask questions on your behalf.
      Gordon, this is what we do. These suggestions apply to you and your wife. Remember, you have hired the doctor for a job. You have the right to ask questions and to receive respectful answers in return. This includes an explanation as to “why” there’s more than minimum staffing in the surgery suite.
      Personally, we prefer there being mixed sex doctors/nurses present. In medical settings, females molest as much as males do but are rarely caught and never prosecuted. I do not my procedure to be used as a “teaching moment” for other practitioners. Insist on IV sedation/narcotic pain management plus local anesthetic for this procedure. Unless your wife prefers otherwise. Don’t listen to the doctor claim it isn’t necessary, or worse yet, that the pain lasts just a few seconds and then it’s over, or that it’s just like period cramps. Even if the doctor is female, how would that person know what your wife’s cramps are like or what her pain tolerances are?
      You can, for yourself, request from your GP short-term anti-anxiety medication. My husband must have this whenever I’m being treated. Even for routine office visits. He’s there every time. He participates in examinations. He doesn’t answer for me necessarily but does prompt me and/or fills in details that I forget. When he cannot be present, such as for procedures in the surgery suite, his own meds are especially needed. For me, he will respectfully remind the doctor to pre-sedate me or to use extra narcotic. Does this help? Make it a priority to have a plan before leaving your front door. Including options in case things don’t go as planned. Make sure your wife knows she must talk to advocate for herself. You can, and make sure you do, remind the doctor if she has trouble challenging authority figures. He should in that case kindly reach out to her several times. He should ask permission first, then if she says yes, he can touch her hand asking her to squeeze if nervous or to measure her comfort level if she cannot speak.
      She should do the same for you given your level of anxiety. Caring for, protecting her is your natural instinct. She should appreciate that and advocate that you get what you need too. Be that extra verbal assurance from her and the doctor that she’s ok, full explanations of who’s present and WHY that/those person(s) are present and needed. Both of you need to have guarantees that her pain will be managed. That alone will help you. Plus, that nobody else who isn’t needed is kept out of the room. You both should insist on that.
      This can make or break your marriage over time. God answered our prayers. Our psychologist helped us get through these things or else we’d have been divorced long ago.
      Dismissing your normal intelligent concerns, will drive a bitter, permanent wedge between yourselves.
      We’ve said many times divorces begin in the doctor’s offices and/or the delivery/surgery room.
      Surely you understand how.
      How did your wife tolerate the procedure? What was the final Dx?
      Hope this helps you. Sorry to everybody for the length. We are so grateful and appreciative for these sites. Read the older entires. Learn. Take care of yourselves. Advocate. PTL!

    • moo says:

      Why did there have to be three doctors in the room for a fairly simple procedure? For a teaching hospital patients are supposed to be asked and give permission for student doctors to look on. But the way they word it and the nurse in pre-op often make it seem you have no choice or you will not get good care if you refuse.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        Yes, can’t see why you’d need so many people in the room, I assume they were students/junior doctors. It can certainly help to have someone with you for these procedures, so they can support you generally and speak up if your wishes are being ignored.
        It would be confronting to walk into the room or be wheeled in to find a sea of unwelcome faces, I can imagine most people would just accept the situation or complain, and if nothing could be done, (whether that’s true or not) give in.

        Even if you make prior arrangements, they’re often ignored, the system just keeps going…
        A few years back a friend requested a female anesthetist, her specialist said that should be fine. When the day arrived about 3 weeks later, she found the female anesthetist had swapped the shift with a male.
        So her “request” had been overlooked, got lost or was dismissed. I think they know when most people find themselves in this situation, they just accept it.
        I’ve heard of this happening a few times over the years – so even thinking ahead, might not work.

        So it was a Q of making a fuss, re-scheduling the procedure or just going ahead, she felt pressured to do the latter. The specialist had passed on the “request” but it seems it was never noted on the file or it was removed at some point. Also, a “request” was probably not strong enough, it should have been “Note: this patient will only see a female doctor etc.”

        The specialist said, when it was made clear a patient would not accept a male midwife, that might be forgotten too, but if the woman refused and wouldn’t budge, they usually found a female midwife.
        The male midwife may have been looking for work as a lot of women from the Middle East were giving birth at the hospital and all refused to have a male doctor/nurse or midwife. Public hospitals here will sometimes state on their website that they might not be able to provide a female doctor in emergency or L&D, but the reality is they usually do for women who refuse on religious or cultural grounds to see male doctors/nurses/midwives, esp. for invasive exams, childbirth, showering, etc. (Muslim women, for example)
        This meant other women who simply preferred a female health professional had to stand up for themselves or they were pressured to take the doctors/midwives rejected by other groups of women.

    • Rebecca says:

      I am honestly so surprised by the reactions of the people in this forum. It must be an American trait to be so neurotic about your bodies because in Europe and to a lesser extent in Australia people there do not make such big fuss once they start to mature. A male doctor diagnosed me with pelvic inflammatory disease. The surgeons initially thought I had appendicitis but the emergency doctor performed a vaginal exam and realised that my cervix was extremely tender. Instead of having a laparatomy, which was the initial plan, they decided to put me on IV antibiotics and wait for a pelvic ultrasound, which confirmed the diagnosis. I didnt have any concerns discussing my sexual history with a male doctor, i am not a shy 13 year old girl but a mature 24 year old with 2 children. So the immaturity in this forum is embarrassing, if you were giggly teenagers, I could understand your reaction but the majority of you are well past that.

      • Chrissy (UK) says:

        You have what is termed the ‘centre of the universe’ syndrome as you are under the misapprehension that everyone should feel the same as you do and if they don’t, they must be ‘immature’. Please do not attempt to shame the women on here with your interpretation of their ‘lack of maturity’ compared to your fine self. The majority of women who post on this site are sick to their back teeth with sanctimonious finger wagging.
        If you are fine with male doctors, screening and pelvic exams then good for you. Perhaps you might care to consider in your ‘maturity’ that there are others who are most definitely not OK with this for whatever reason. Perhaps in your ‘maturity’ you could consider these reasons to be valid.

      • Evie says:

        Appendicitis can be treated with antibiotics as effectively as with surgery (but without all the complications and side effects of the surgery). Here’s an example of an actual study:

        Oh, sorry, that was so immature of me to look at actual evidence.

        I suppose I should not be a naughty teenage girl and ask the good doctor all these stupid questions, like what are the risks of this procedure? are there any alternatives? what are my chances of being helped by this procedure? No, of course, not, I should behave like the grown-up, mature woman I am and just drop off my panties for every guy in a white gown who tells me to 😉

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        Thank you for bringing facts to the table. Thank you Chrissy UK for the “center of the universe” comment. It’s sooo refreshing. Elizabeth Aust always has great facts that makes everybody stop and think. Adding to that, here’s some advice on seeing a request through. If we truly can.
        Besides simply “requesting” our doctor does something, demand him/her make it a part of the “orders” relating to your surgical procedure. If the doctor orders it, then it’s good as done. Usually. You must still chase it down though. Because every jerk down wind at the hospital will try to set it aside. There’s the seemingly “we missed it, forgot, that person is sick, busy today, not here,…” You must call and nag them. Take names of those supervisors who say it will be done. Be prepared to cancel the procedure.
        Just because you request a woman though does not mean all is well. There’s the case of a lesbian ENT, chief of staff at a New Mexico hospital. She molested every male she operated on. And the all-female staff did nothing about it. My husband had an all-female staff prep him for hernia surgery. The hand job he received, and stopped them just before Old Faithful geyser blew off its steam, is an example of good girls gone very bad. I’ve said this. Women molest, lesbians molest, and there’s never any prosecutions. A mixed crew is what you want.
        Also, the freaks of the 70’s trained the perverts who are training the upcoming nutjobs. These docs openly believe it’s their prerogative to do whatever exams they want on you once you’re out. LIne up and practice pelvic exams? It’s been done. A teaching hospital is NOT a good place for procedures. When your advocates eyes are locked far away, these docs with your parts will play.
        A visitor to our sites went on (I think) and posed a question to this effect. These new doctors bragging about what they’ve done caused a shit storm.
        The educational system does not bring us the best. It filters up the delusional intellects who believe their god image, combined with student debt, gives them above the law rights. This results in doctors who behave like assholes, not caring about our pain nor kids, not anything but themselves. My husband’s former best friend is the perfect example.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        Hi Rebecca
        In my opinion, women are not more mature because they see male doctors or immature if they choose female doctors, we’re individuals and will make our own decisions.
        I’m almost 59 and have a female GP, I’d request a female doctor/nurse for anything that made me feel uncomfortable. I certainly don’t feel the need to justify that very personal decision nor do I expect a woman to justify her decision to see a male doctor for a pelvic exam…that’s her personal choice and none of my business.

        Keep in mind…
        For many years, women had no choice of doctor, some (perhaps, many) women were traumatized by the treatment they received, especially, unnecessary breast and pelvic exams, pap-tests-by-coercion and during childbirth. Also, making a complaint was very difficult in the 1980s and earlier so there was no closure for these women.
        Many women have kept upsetting past medical experiences to themselves or carry trauma. It’s natural to avoid the same situation again so these women often only see female doctors, some avoid all medical care.

        It’s still not easy, even in serious and blatant cases too often the system is slow to protect women and deal with doctors doing the wrong thing.
        One young woman went straight to the Police, that stopped a dermatologist here who’d been sexually assaulting women for years, the Medical Board had received complaints but he’d been allowed to continue practising – he was convicted and went to prison for several years. Many/some of the victims will go on to only see female doctors or might even avoid all medical care. Some of his victims said they’d lost trust, once that’s gone, it can be hard to find again.

        Some women have been sexually assaulted by males – hardly surprising this leaves some feeling vulnerable when it comes to male doctors and some exams/tests.

        Study after study shows the majority of women prefer female doctors for vaginal and breast exams. Up until about 20 years ago, it was hard to find a female doctor, the few that existed couldn’t handle the workload, so women were often dismissed or ridiculed in an attempt to force some to see a male doctor.
        So many women were forced to accept male doctors, this can have a negative effect.
        Times have changed, we have more female doctors, women are more informed, more are prepared to request the care they prefer and to stand firm – if women want to see a female doctor or men see a male doctor etc., they should feel free to express their preference.

        It also comes down to the old comfort factor – just as some men request male doctors, some women prefer female doctors. I really don’t understand why anyone should Q the choice made by another person.
        If a woman really doesn’t care about a male doctor doing a pap test or breast exam, why should she care what another woman might choose for herself?

        Generally speaking, I hope that over time women might be kinder to each other, less judgment, more support, and empathy – we’re all individuals and will choose different things, and feel differently about some things, end of story. Every life journey is unique, your experiences will not be my experiences etc.

        All the best, hope your health issues are being well managed and you’re doing well.

      • Ozzychick86 says:

        Thank god someone said it. I’m 30, 4 kids and live in oz. I have never had a male dr do a vaginal exam on me before but I’m due to as I have a cyst down there. I didn’t think it was a big deal but ended up googling it and found all this!

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        Hope you read this before your exam. Make sure you take an advocate with you. Preferably your husband or bf, or gf, or wife if that’s how you go. Tell that person to look over the doctor’s shoulder once the exam begins. If the doc isn’t “comfortable” get up and leave. Period. His comfort isn’t the concern. Your comfort and safety is. And the fact that it will be much more difficult for any doc to take a picture of your genitals with your advocate staring therein.
        My husband has caught two doctors in the act. One of my former pain doctors, Naga Thota MD, in San Diego CA area, recently was convicted of sexual violations. My husband had this guy sized up from the first day we met him.
        If the doc says he can feel your ovaries etc…well he can’t. What he may feel is swelling in the area or your pain response as he pokes. He will feel your cervix and the first inch of your uterus.
        Expect a very thorough rectal exam or the rectovaginal which unfortunately you’ve had many times by now. Variations of the “two fingered salute” as we call them.
        They should be doing an ultrasound on you first and foremost. Most likely transvaginal. Make sure your husband is there for that too. The tech will most likely be very rude and insist he wait outside.
        Stand your ground. Demand he goes in. Protect yourself.
        My husband goes everywhere I go and same with me for him.
        An advocate is your witness.

  11. Marcus says:

    This is the worst article I have ever read regarding facts this study is not one of a medical setting its you judging people on there looks … I assume you learned all there is to know about paps and pelvic exams in medical school but the real world is different than medical school

  12. katrehman says:

    Hi Rebecca. I agree with Chrissy Evie and Elizabeth. For years we had medics telling us how we should feel about these tests and downplaying our concerns. We’d just have to get used to it because its all part of being a woman and we should be empowered by having brushes inserted in our vaginas…..and how silly we were. Our vaginas aren’t special or sexy to the medic who sees dozens every day…I for one am sick to death of being harassed to have a smear test. But it annoys me even more when we get more of the same from other women!! If you read some of the posts on here the women have suffered lasting mental health issues from their experiences of these tests. Then we have other women who know nothing about us telling us how immature we are?! Read any article about women’s cancer screening and as soon as someone (usually one of us!).queries the need for screening or points out actually its not so reliable…we get shot down by other women who tell us we’re irresponsible because we might stop others going!!
    You are fine with screening and male doctors and that’s good. Let’s have a bit more tolerance for those of us with different views!

  13. Anonymous says:

    I really respect that you made this and addmitted things about yourself, thanks for the forewarning.

  14. Alexis says:

    What I find laughable is that every time time I see an add trying to coax me (near again) back into stripping naked in front of doctor man, it’s a women doctor in the picture, when you
    know, 8 out of every 10 times its going to be a man! Why is that? why don’t they advertise a man standing along the stirrups with the goofy smile!? That is a more real ascertain of the event.

    • Cat&Mouse says:

      Yeah. Agree. That goofy smile reveals the erection he thinks we don’t know he already has. Besides the sight, our smells drive men crazy. My husband digs my smells. If the doctor isn’t getting decent sex, these exams drive him to the breaking point. As we all know anyway.
      Lesbian practitioners, aroused or not, can keep a straight face. They get away with it because they also know how far they can go.
      Did you know, in the “rack” as I call it, we engorge at least every two minutes? That means we involuntarily distend our clitoris’ and bloom our labia, we also lubricate. Whether we’re terrified or relaxed. My husband has asked me if I knew it was happening and I had no idea.
      If the doctor squeezes your nipples, that’s another “trigger” that causes involuntarily arousal. The “two finger salute” or internal exam, whether it’s vaginal or rectovaginal, also causes us to arouse and lubricate. Every single erogenous point, especially our anterior and posterior cervical fornix. which give us the full feeling and can trigger a third type orgasm, are palpated.
      Why are we told to breathe deep and “relax?” Because our vaginas, our bodies, want to react sexually to the stimulus.
      It’s automatic that young women are given thorough exams because of the mutual arousal. Only we aren’t there to be aroused. It’s a win-win-win for the doctor though. Plus he’s paid to prostitute us for his own gains.

  15. AnonymousMD says:

    A patient forwarded me a link to this (surprising) page. I’m a male primary care doc.
    Ever since med school I’ve cringed at the thought of pelvic exams. It is just so unnatural to me. I routinely defer screening exams to my female colleagues and use a chaperone if needing to examine something (like a cyst in the groin area).
    I completed 2 years of surgery training before changing to internal medicine. I’ve seen countless nude bodies and have been around literally hundreds of men (and women) who were present during such times. Save the rare exception where a patient had unusual anatomy (e.g. male with an unbelievably large penis or female with some type of something that somehow was unusual), I can’t say that I’ve ever heard colleagues saying anything about a patient’s body in a sexual manner. Either the author of the article or I is living/working at the end of the spectrum when it comes to human behavior.
    To be sure, medical people are human, and there are deviants in all walks of life, but the baby shouldn’t be thrown out with the bath water.
    In my training and practice, women are encouraged to always be accompanied by a friend or family member for examinations. Moreover, most of my female colleagues, too, use a chaperone when examining women, regardless of who accompanies the patient.
    Otherwise, the bad science recommendations contained in the original article and in many of the responses are why I’m giving up my career in medicine. It’s a tall order to try to offer to patients the ‘understanding of the science’ (not knowledge) that physicians are taught. It’s quite another to spend the majority of a clinic consultation trying to explain why this or that read on the internet isn’t particular to one’s health concerns.

    • moo says:

      Wow! You were an internal medicine specialist although you completed two years of surgery training. Presently you work as a primary care doctor (family physician) right? Now you decide to “give up” your career in medicine because your patients use the internet. Somehow the $$$ sense of this all is just not in my understanding. Maybe your next job will be selling fire extingushers to people whose pants are on fire.

    • A S says:

      It should be standard practice to have an assistant in the room for any sensitive exam or procedure, but unfortunately, it’s not. I now avoid my GP because of the nurse’s hostility toward me after I declined to consent to a breast and pelvic exam. She was clearly not pleased with me and left the room with body language that showed her frustration and/or disgust. Once out of the room, she told my GP, who then came in and tried to convince me to consent. I explained my reasons for declining, but nothing I said was acceptable. My GP was also clearly frustrated, and I have to wonder what was written in my file.

      What it comes down to is this: we don’t HAVE to have these sorts of exams. They are optional screening exams for cancer. The keyword is OPTIONAL. I might choose to have a pap test every 5 years or so (or maybe not because I am HPV- with no history of reproductive cancers in my family), but I will always decline a pelvic exam because I don’t want my GP’s fingers inside me. I can do my own breast exams because I am more familiar with my body than my doctor is.

      I don’t need good or bad science to convince me of my rights to my own body.

  16. Researcher says:

    I’ve read some interesting posts here.

    Firstly, with regard to coercian by parents and professionals who force their offspring and their patients to subject themselves to undergo unnecessary intimate exams, the arguments used are similar to parents and “professionals” who commit female genital mutilation. This often boils down to it’s “normal” or “we all have to have it done” or “I had it done so you’ll have it done.” These attitudes seem to particularly prevalent in the USA.

    Secondly, sexual response in males and females is caused by the autonomic nervous system. This is something that is largely acts unconsciously. Our reactions can be dulled but if someone pushes all one’s buttons one will get aroused to a greater or lesser extent. “Professional distance” in these circumstances really doesn’t exist. It is stated ad nauseum that it is normal for a patent’s penis to become erect as a result of an examination or procedure. Somehow, a practitioner’s penis is regarded as immune from this.

    Thirdly, professionals who have never heard a colleague admitting to sexual arousal are probably listening in the wrong places. You see, there are three significant words, “fitness to practice.” An act that is not necessarily criminal can initiate fitness to practice investigations.

    Fourthly, even the discussion of these matters invites discussion by fantasists. Obviously, medical fetishists also fantacize about being patients. This includes fantasy about orgasm being induced by professionals and a broad range of sexual acts.

    What is quite obvious in these days of sharing our most intimate sensations on the internet is that an unknown percentage of practioners have a medical festish. Some practioners also function as “play doctors” and some are even moderators on fetish sites. These people believe that they can separate their fetish from their profession.The extent of this has been inadequately researched and one obvious problem with designing such research is those three significant words.

    This fetish is disturbing at a number of levels. Not least is the discussion of paediatric examinations, often in the context of recalling childhood experiences, that clearly provoke a sexual response. Medical practioners are among the moderators on sites where such experiences are discussed. Anyone who doubts the erotic nature of medical practice should search for a “training” film of a physical examination of a woman produced by Rhône-Poulenc.

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s