Discussion Forum (Unnecessary Pap Smears: Part Two)

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion.

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog. (click on title or graphic to go to comments)

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Hi. My name is Sue and I am interested in promoting holistic and respectful health care.
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3,601 Responses to Discussion Forum (Unnecessary Pap Smears: Part Two)

  1. katrehman says:

    Oh my days ladies daily mail today. Storm of protest about the Aussie move to 5 year HPV testing .petitions protesting against it….

  2. Elizabeth says:

    Breast self exams and clinical breast exams are not recommended, many of us choose not to have mammograms, we’re told to be “breast aware” and see a doctor if we feel or see something new, like dimpling of the skin or a lump.
    I know some women still do something close to self examination, where they section the breast and palpate each area.
    I just take note of the normal look of my breasts in the mirror after I shower, I also use some liquid soap in the shower and run my hand over each breast, lightly, part of the washing process, not palpating…
    The late Prof Austoker promoted breast awareness, I don’t think that involved touching the breasts, just being observant.
    Some women do more than observe, they might use shower wash to gently run their hand over each breast, others apply more pressure or section off the breast similar to the old self-exam.

    I was speaking to a workmate yesterday, it’s not working for her. The idea with breast awareness was to act if you see something unusual/different AND avoid the risks with mammograms, radiation, anxiety, over-diagnosis, false positives and excess biopsies.

    So she checks her breasts in the mirror every day but also lightly touches each breast, looking for lumps, more than observing, less than the full self-exam.
    Now because she doesn’t have mammograms, her GP said to be very careful and see her promptly with any changes. About 3 years ago at 52 she felt a small pimple, it was difficult to see, just feel, so she went to the GP, who did a CBE and sent her for a mammogram. “Something” appeared (nothing to do with the pimple, which was ruled out as a skin tag, we get more bumps and marks as we age, inside and out) anyway, chasing the rabbit down the hole resulted in another 2 mammograms, ultrasound and biopsy.
    Nothing found…
    Last year she “thought” she felt a thickening, so the same thing happened…

    Her point to me…I would probably have had less radiation if I’d had two yearly mammograms as part of the program, she feels either way, they’ll get her. After the last scare, she’s afraid to check her breasts and can understand why some women view them with fear and suspicion and why some opt to have them removed…

    I know breast cancer is a concern so many women feel they should be doing “something”…mammograms, breast awareness (no touching or only light touching) or breast self-exams. Just wondered if others have found choosing not to have mammograms and doing something else has actually led to more mammograms and interventions.
    My workmate said her GP is cautious with her too because, “you’re one of my unscreened patients”…so she feels she gets sent off very quickly.
    I haven’t had any issues and I’m almost 59 but that might be because I look, I don’t do any sort of breast exam. (and only light touch during the washing process)

    • adawells says:

      From what I have read in accounts of women who’ve had an aggressive cancer you will know about it if you get it. A woman (who had attended mammograms and had negative results) got a small pins & needles tingling in her breast, and this turned out to be a rare aggressive cancer. Of course the press seized on this to promote screening instead of being aware of the symptoms.

      I don’t know of anyone who’s declined mammograms and then found herself getting more treatment as a result of her decision. I know when I first went to my ex-GP with post-menopausal bleeding 3 years ago, she wanted to kick the appointment off with a breast exam, as GP’s are sent alerts that you have declined mammograms. I had a very unhappy row with her and followed this up with a letter of complaint to the practice, then followed this up with letters to everywhere else, but it gets you nowhere.

      Hazel Thornton has done a lot for exposing the DCIS scandal, as she was diagnosed with this herself many years ago. She did the research and realised that women were being pushed into mastectomies for something that wouldn’t change in their lifetime. She’s an academic and has written papers with your Alexandra Barratt.

      I have never forgotten a lady who posted on patient.co.uk about how a mammogram has put her on a conveyor belt of biopsies and painful tests for years. She has had one of those marker clips put in as the questionable area picked up by the first mammogram is too normal to pick out again and the last few years of her life have been spent poking and prodding this area in repeat hospital appointments. The breast now has so much internal scarring that it obscures any possible cancer which may be there, so necessitating more invasive resting. As nothing has ever been found, she is one of a growing number of women regretting that she ever had that mammogram. I could have spent these last few years completely free of all this, she wrote.

    • Heather - Australia says:

      It is hard to imagine how scared and anxious that woman must be if she is checking her breasts every day! It is borderline obsession. And it is completely useless for prevention. Breast tumours are not juvenile pimples: they don’t pop up overnight. A tumour appears out of one cell and grows slowly. So checking breasts every day for any changes will totally miss slow growths, and will instead pick up normal, benign changes in tissues that appear depending on temperature, diet, transient cold/flu, minor traumas, hormonal variations and so on. To be even remotely able to feel a true tumour, she should be checking no more frequently than once every 2-3 months. Otherwise it is a totally pointless disturbance of her breasts, and one shouldn’t be doing that unless it is a part of a much more enjoyable process.

  3. katrehman says:

    Ada I’m not on sny social media but instagram. .. ladies any and everywhere. . Please raise awareness x

    • Mary says:

      I’m not on social media either, but there’s a pap smear facebook page of outraged women..

      • Mary says:

        Don’t you love how the changes in screening are messing with these outraged women’s minds? We the lunatic fringe, now we have the president of the AMA supporting what we’ve been saying all along. Vindication. But why do these women who love taking what their doctors say as gospel have such a hard time listening to their doctors now? It’s just absurd that some women are not capable of understanding that knowledge in science is constantly evolving.

      • adawells says:

        https://plasticdollheads.wordpress.com/2017/01/14/the-fear-mongering-of-the-smear/

        Hi Mary, could you give me some clues how to find them? Browsing Facebook I’ve only come across the rabid pro-screening brigade who want smears forced on everyone.

        A lone voice of commonsense is the blog post above.

      • Mary says:

        Adawells I just googled pap smears and facebook and it came up first on the list. My pro pap smear false positive victim, “I had cin 3 I wouldn’t be alive here today” friend told me about it. Thanks for giving me the link of the AMA president saying these women are misguided. I sent that to her.
        Elizabeth, two medical textbooks that I have had to use both repeat the myth that cervical cancer is common and pap smears have been the greatest success story in screening. So no wonder GPs are misinformed.

      • Mary says:

        Sorry Adawells that’s what I was talking about. The propap outraged facebook group. My friend told me about them. I think she thinks they know what they are talking about and I don’t.

      • adawells says:

        https://ama.com.au/ausmed/cervical-cancer-screening

        Mary, perhaps you could show Ms I-wouldn’t-be-here-today this announcement from Michael Gannon. I’ve not seen one so honest about the damage this test does to women and their babies, but it was all done “in good faith”. How can a gynaecologist of his standing say this when a lot of us women suspected all this from 1989?

      • Mary says:

        I notice the Dr doesn’t mention miscarriages. That would open up a can of worms now wouldn’t it? And guess what? My friend had a midterm miscarriage. Was it related to that? We’ll never know as she was older But she never got pregnant again and remained childless much to her regret.

      • adawells says:

        I’ve just had a look on Facebook and seen the Aussie posts. They are delusional. Someone has set up a Facebook page called:

        Cervical screening – right to refuse

        Only one I can find speaking out.

  4. Elizabeth says:

    The petition started after a doctor and nurse expressed their concern to a patient about the changes, moving to 5 yearly screening and starting at 25. I know many doctors don’t understand or are unaware of the evidence, many seem to confuse “treatment for pre-cancerous cells” as stopping cancer in its tracks. (when it’s mostly over- treatment) We know women under 30 don’t benefit from pop testing, but lots will end up being “treated” and we also know most women are hpv- and not at risk of cc.
    I had a young GP say to me once, “you wouldn’t say that if you saw all the abnormal smears in young women”…she was gobsmacked when I replied, “not at all, I’d expect it, you understand they’re false positives, don’t you?”
    It was clear she didn’t understand, she believed the hype, I also, wonder how cervical screening is presented at Medical School.
    So you have women deliberately misled for decades, plus enormous pressure to screen, lots of scare tactics AND doctors who don’t have a clue or choose to mislead women.
    The Petition will go nowhere, the juggernaut has been re-positioned and will churn into action in July.
    Actually, I expected more push-back last year, but the “convenient” explanation was accepted by many….that HPV vaccination now makes it safe to extend screening intervals and to start later.
    Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive…

  5. katrehman says:

    Ada I checked dollheads out. .she talks a lot of sense! As to the Aussie storm..it’s ironic the program is a victim of its own success. Women who were told how rampant CC is now terrified y the thought of less frequent smears!

    • adawells says:

      Exactly Kat and Elizabeth, they deliberately created this hysteria that we’re all about to drop dead from cervical cancer, and that every single smear is a life saver, and now they’ve got to get the message across that a quarter as many tests would do the job any way. Of course there’s a bottomless pit of taxpayers money available for this purpose, and the elderly parked on trolleys in hospital corridors can just be left in their own urine soaked sheets. Screening juggernaut must have priority.

    • Heather - Australia says:

      For too long Australian women have been brainwashed into the belief that they will sure die if they don’t present their cervix for scraping every 2 years. For decades, we’ve been told that “cervical cancer is the most common cause of death in women”. Of course huge herds of ignorant sheeple are going to think that they are about to be murdered as the old cervix-butchering program is on its way out.
      The screening Nazis clearly overdid it with their scaremongering. So now they will have to come up with new hype, slogans and tactics. And they will, no doubt about that.

  6. adawells says:

    https://www.healthwatch-uk.org/news/121-winter-2016-17-healthwatch-newsletter-out-now.html

    Peter Gøetzsche has been given an award by Healthwatch. He has written a great article on pages 6-8 of the latest edition about mammograms, which you can download from the link.

  7. Elizabeth says:

    Women here have been warned not to miss their two yearly Pap tests, the program suspected some women were waiting for the new 5 year hpv program to start. So you can’t have it both ways, mislead and deceive and then do a 360 when it suits, I suppose they thought the trusting herd would ask no questions and just follow along compliantly.
    Not sure if you can access the Medical Observer, but there’s an article expressing concern that the Petition is gaining traction, a call is made for the Govt to start an “education” program.
    So I assume a suitable “story” will be presented shortly, new evidence is probably the safest one (for them) Of course, this new evidence is anything but, two yearly Pap testing amounts to serious over- screening, that’s been known for decades. We’ve known for ages that over-screening means more false positives and over-treatment. We’ve known Pap testing is harm/risk for no benefit for those under 30 since at least the 1960s or 1970s, I believe we conveniently “questioned” this research to block changes for as long as possible.
    Everyone was happy to scrape, cut and burn HUGE numbers of women, it’s usually this group that call themselves survivors….of course, they’re almost all simply victims of the program and the greed of those who’ve benefited from the excess. Most of this damage was avoidable, but no one cared to protect women.

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if they were finally exposed as medical abusers? They’ve happily trotted out misinformation for decades, they were even happy to coerce women into testing. (Arguably that means no consent at all, you could say that applies when women are misled into screening)
    Some may call for a full and independent enquiry – bring it on!
    Apparently, senior and high profile doctors are being asked to respond to some of the comments attached to the online petition.
    Of course, every approach simply highlights there’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense, but so cocky is this program they intend to do hpv testing on women aged 25 to 29, when they know this will simply send a lot of young women off for excess colposcopy and biopsy.
    The fact is they simply don’t care about women, it’s about control, exploitation and profits, pretending to be screening.

    • Mary says:

      I used to be able to access the Medical Observer and then I was denied access. I shouldn’t have made so many critical comments. I think I got banned. Lol.
      They will say it’s because of the HPV vaccine. That’s what I’ve been hearing, although it doesn’t explain why women who are too old to get the vaccine are also included in the new program.

      • Elizabeth says:

        Hi Mary
        I’ve heard that too and naturally, that scares the life out of the girls who opted for no hpv vaccination (or their parents said No) or those who were older than 26 when it was released or those already sexually active when they were vaccinated etc.
        Hopefully, more women will smell a big, fat rat…

      • Elizabeth says:

        It’s really telling when you read through the comments attached to the Petition, “I had cervical cancer at 16 and was saved by a Pap test, I’d have been dead at 25” or
        “Three of my friends had treatment for cervical cancer before they turned 20″…
        No surprises there, I’m sure they were…but they were actually over-treated and should never have been tested in the first place. You can see why they went to 25 and not the evidence based starting age if 30! The Dutch had no problem with their new program because they’ve never officially tested before 30.
        No attempt was made to wind our program back, they just kept seriously over-screening and over-treating, so we now have senior doctors telling us why we should make this change, but they’ve known about these issues for many years and either remained silent or attacked/discredited/dismissed those with concerns. Hardly surprising many see the contradictions…

        Previously, these early “scares” were probably considered helpful, scaring women into future testing compliance, sending them off to urge others to do the same thing, but now the lies are not so helpful. So many women have faced an “abnormal” Pap test and had “cancerous” cells removed, naturally, these women are appalled at the changes. The perfect mass deception is now a barrier to change…

        There was some research comparing Pap test results of young women with Gardasil records, that made clear some of our GPs were testing girls under 17. This is pure incompetence, but some gp’s felt “high risk” girls should be tested or they couldn’t see the harm starting the test early, one doctor said it sets up good screening habits.
        So our screened group has been well over-treated thanks to excessive and inappropriate Pap testing. The comments now being made by the AMA and others is what we’ve been saying for a long time now but we were blocked, censored, moderated, banned (up until recently) It says to me the profession here has so little respect for women that it really didn’t occur to them there could be serious push-back.
        The program has brainwashed many, the testing program has created a huge group of “survivors” – you can’t now demand that women believe something completely different, especially after you’ve been reinforcing the misinformation up until very recently…
        Treating women like fools, assuming we can all be manipulated and re-directed at their will, might just end up biting them on the backside.
        About 77% of screened women have had something done to their cervix…77%…and you’re now telling these women that cc is actually quite rare, it’s safe to extend the screening interval etc.

      • Mary says:

        Hi Elizabeth,
        On the radio this week they talked to the doctor who wrote an article about the new HPV test in the SMH the other day. Anyway, this older sounding women rang up and complained that why couldn’t women do self testing like the colon cancer test. She complained how undignified it is. The doctor just minimised it and said that the doctor should talk you through it if you are anxious etc. The Dr also said self testing is less accurate.
        I thought to myself here’s another women who doesn’t realise she can just say no if she doesn’t want to. I wished I could have told her about this site.

  8. Alex says:

    Hello, everyone. Haven’t been on here in a while & thought I might ask a question: How can a Canadian woman get birth control without doctors? I was walking around & talking with this woman from my hostel (I’m in Portugal right now) & she had mentioned birth control in Canada was an issue & I remembered that somebody in here found an angle. It wasn’t the one about getting them from the psychiatrist, it was some website (I think).

    If I see her again, I’d like to give her an angle (I already told her it was illegal & I had tracked that down for some woman from Canada, but it might be good to give an option that she doesn’t have to butt heads with people on. I’ll refer her to this site anyway, I just was wondering about it & thought I’d ask.

    • Elizabeth says:

      Hi Alex
      Hope you’re enjoying Portugal, I enjoyed a brief visit about 8 years ago, loved Sintra and Obibos…and the warm Portuguese custard tarts in Lisbon, yum.
      Not sure about the official position in Portugal but I think most pharmacists will supply you with the Pill, over the counter, with no script. I’d go into a pharmacy and ask…

      I found the pharmacists to be really helpful. I used the opportunity to get some more cream for dermatitis, it was quite hot during my stay and I felt dermatitis was starting on my neck. It’s important to start using the cream as soon as you notice it starting, it can become nasty very quickly, esp if it’s humid.
      I have to see a doctor here for repeats even though I’ve used the cream on and off with no drama for over ten years. The Portuguese pharmacist simply ran through the adverse reactions I might experience, and handed it over, much cheaper than Australia too.

      While I was waiting a man asked for migraine meds, he was a tourist too, the pharmacist called a doctor, had a chat and handed over something for the migraines.
      Our pharmacists are under-utilised, the AMA and others refuse to work with them, desperate to protect market share and profits, they want to keep us going in to collect scripts/repeats. I now pay $80 for a 5 minute consult to collect a repeat, and get $20+ back from Medicare.
      I know one Portuguese pharmacist had a doctor on site who authorised some drugs after a quick consult.
      I’m sure someone will give you the reliable on-line pharmacy sites, but I’d be surprised if your friend had trouble getting the Pill in Portugal.
      Enjoy Portugal…

      • Alex says:

        Yeah, Spain & Portugal seem to be much better with that, but she lives in Canada. Haven’t seen her in a while & I didn’t give her my number, since I grew up with that as a romantic/dating sort of thing & she has a boyfriend.

        I know it’s not necessarily that way, I just was a little nervous that I was going to weird her out & she looked like she really wanted to get some sleep. I’m kind of regretting it, since I enjoyed her company & I generally just “get along” with others.

  9. Elizabeth says:

    Sorry, Canada is a whole other matter.
    Sure someone can help with a website but I think Canada stops shipments of prescription drugs, or that’s a risk anyway…
    Hopefully, one of our Canadians can give you some advice.
    Can you still get the Pill OTC in California and Oregon? Just curious…

  10. adawells says:

    http://snip.ly/j39bo#http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4222628/Surge-women-s-hair-transplants-BIKINI-LINES.html

    I haven’t been able to stop giggling over this all evening.😁 Women seeking pubic hair transplants after they’ve had a few too many waxes.😀😀 Idiots! This woman has had hair taken from the back of her head inserted into her “front bottom”. I wonder if she has beautiful long hair, as she may find her pubes down to her knees in a few months time. 😂😂
    There could be some interesting possibilities for men who are getting thin on top by having a reverse procedure by getting a luxurient crop of curly pubes on top.😅 Only in the Daily Fail.

  11. katrehman says:

    Hi linda and ada. ..it’s mind boggling!! Talk about lol

  12. katrehman says:

    Daily mail yesterday ladies ehy you shouldn’t totally rely on your pap test result……

  13. Penelope says:

    I’m sorry. I won’t laugh. I won’t.

    Hi Everyone:

    Sometimes it’s hard to know when to jump into the comments. My heart goes out each time I read all the heartwrenching testimonies on here. But, I know I can’t answer everyone and our veterans on here are so much better with poviding medical studies and information than I am. My apologies for not helping, but I’m here to support. And then, I’m inspired and my hope for women’s health is encouraged by the medical articles and information that our veterans continue to present on our site.

    I looked at this article, and became seriously disappointed yet again. I’m so, so, so tired of women being exploited. Yes, women who pose naked (like this idiot who put her naked crotch on display in the Daily Mail for this private matter) – get what they pay for – they did it out of low self esteem and for money. They eventually learn that it’s not empowering, but reallllly stupid – and I notice, they don’t do it again. It’s when women who didn’t ask for it – are exploited in the medical profession – that breaks my heart. And, it’s always, always, ALWAYS a man that comes up with this crap to work on women’s intimate body parts. Women line up like idiots. There’s also vaginal rejuvination surgery. So, women, allow themselves to go unconscious so that some man, who will never be their husband, can – in addition to “helping them,” play with their vaginas, masturbate to them, take pictures for private use – it’s been done – just check the news. I saw a site, where the bastard put the pictures he took while they were unconscious, on display – to show the procedure worked. I don’t see any pictures of men who’ve penile or male enhancement surgery on any website. I dare say that if women were prominent in the medical profession that they would come up with these procedures and not exploit women like that. If it must be done, AREN’T there any women doctors who perform this procedure?

    I made the mistake of watching childbirth shows again. What the devil was I expecting. I guess I was feeling bad and needed to get angry at something to take my mind off of my problems. The shows are nothing but exploitation. Showing women with nurses and male doctors putting their fingers up their vaginas for cervical check that don’t help with the childbirth process. They get away with showing parts of their open legs. Funny, how there are no shows about male procedures with testicles and penises scrambled out. Did these women know that 16 years later their naked vaginas exposed during birth would still be on display on TV. My God. This – sigh – female ob/gyn – was having such a good time digging in this woman’s vagina for a premature baby. The woman was screaming to the top of her lungs. This is called birth trauma. She should have taken her for a C-section – not put that woman through hell on video. She pressed so hard she hurt the baby’s chest and whisked him away out of the room to save him – clearly it was her fault and she had to correct it. In all the flurry the male cameraman – it’s in the credits – had the camera on her open naked legs for seconds after the doctor walked away. So let me get this straight: If a women’s pubic hair shown in a movie – the movie is rated R – if full on nudity – rated X. Yet these bastards show this woman’s naked exposed vagina and there is no culpability – no responsibility because a baby came out??????

    Oh yes they scrambled it, but only an unconscious man wouldn’t know what he is seeing. They treated her with less dignity than an animal giving birth. These women sign off on the contracts – likely the production pays for their expenses – as compensation. Likely they don’t show them the final product. I’m sure they are horrified to see themselves exposed – 15 years later on T.V. There was a woman who sued one of those emergency room shows because she didn’t sign or consent to the footage of her husband being brought in with a heart attack. He died. She couldn’t be bought. She sued the hell out of them. I’ve noticed now, that this channel has scrubbed most of the recent shows – likely as far back as to where the statute of limitations have expired, thus why they keep showing shows that are 10 -16 years old. The others must have had ironclad contracts – or the patients rationalized to let it go as they got paid. Outrageous. In other places, that ‘s called prostitution.

    I have to stay in prayer. This must end. But, it will have to start with women finally taking back their power. We are on our site. Millions of others did in the march in Washington, DC and in different countries (did any women here participate?) in January. This momentum must keep up.

    Everyone be blessed.

    • adawells says:

      Sorry if I’ve caused any upset, but the Daily Fail is such a rag. I strongly suspect that the woman in the article is one of their own journalists.

      • Penelope says:

        Oh no, Adawells – it’s not you. It’s the article I’m disappointed with. I hope someone can answer IMustBeSurrounded – soon. I’m not sure of the answer, but someone here knows.

        I read the Daily Mail from time to time. It’s funny how you call it the daily fail. It is – a tabloid. Like People magazine has nearly become, the Star, the Sun, the Enquirer. Only People magazine and the Daily Mail (I don’t think…) don’t show the very bad cartoonish pictures of aliens.

        Please do laugh if it brightens your day. Remember the article I mentioned on robotic vaginas…that was ridiculous. Haven’t heard if they got it approved or not.

        But, this article is one of many that I could have tripped over in the course of the day. It goes on to show a video presentation of another woman getting a designer vagina. (?!!!) This woman looks like she’s had alot of work done, and is therefore very shallow and vain, and has such low self esteem (like the pubic hair woman before) that she would submit herself to that – and on video. There’s this systemic, institutionalized, disrespect for women by this systemic, desensitization of the words breast, vagina, and to an extent, labia and vulva, and clitoris in the media. The idea seems to be that as long as they keep printing it, the words will stop being private. I sure as hell don’t see this same treatment of penis, testicles, and scrotum; not even the word prostate. No, those are still “dirty” words. Can’t you tell this is perpetuated by the male marketing execs who want to see this in the media, but nothing to do with their pee-pees. It’s too vulgar to mention men’s penises (right). Vulgar is their code word for – embarrassing – no talking about pee-pees…they’re mentally still twelve year old adolescents still peeking at girls through key holes and are insecure about their size.

        That article about the pubic hair woman goes on to mention celebrities – who clearly are shallow and not thinking – who support pubic hair restoration after waxing – the word vagina is thrown around like a frisbee (?!) They’re speaking as if discussing the cure for cancers and the remedy for world peace. It’s galling that and I realize that, women perpetuate this disrespect for women – by posing nude and in their very small underwear at will on social media; in skin care ads (if I had a dollar for every woman I’ve seen shown in the shower for a shower gel or fast-drying lotion…..); posing in and wearing body paint and pasties in public because that is considered to be clothed by law (?!) and talking about body parts routinely. What is this – trend – of women who present themselves on t.v. as girlfriends just hanging out, talking about intimate parts on camera. This is definitely a marketing strategy – the “as long as we’re talking about “serious” issues, we can say vagina a thousand times” strategy. Breastfeeding – I missed the day when people stopped calling it the respectful word – “nursing.” All added up, it is indeed nothing more than systemic disrespect for women. Then, women wonder why when they get to the gyn’s office that they are expected to disrobe and get in stirrups for the doctor, the nurse, and medical students to see; why childbirth is a three-ring circus in hospitals where nurses and male doctors (and now male nurses ?!) think they have the right to stick their fingers up vaginas for cervical checks and then have an audience while they give birth – because they sweat through medical and nursing school. There’s alot of information out there that says those checks are harmful and necessary; that women need to have respect and privacy, and the baby will come – on their time. Birth is induced to move the mom along….the nurses and doctors are tired of waiting and want to move on….

        So, society says that women don’t care, based on all that is out there in the media – perpetuated by womennnnnn – so, why not trust the guy in a lab coat. There are self absorbed women who rationalize that they don’t think it’s sexual to them, so it can’t be sexual to the doctor. However, the doctor, the night before and on the way to work staring at his cellphone, saw allllllllllllllllll that social media with women who were paid to expose themselves naked for skincare ads, porno maybe; saw R-rated with movies with nude women in sex scenes (paid). As far as he’s concerned, it is sexual and women are stupid not to care. Then there’s just enough sheeple lined up in his office to make him believe just that. There’s an article i came across about pap smears by the way….People in the comments section mention our site. These sheeple are clearly brainwashed. They call us anti-medicine and are only into holistic remedies and tried to discredit us. Nevermind they serve themselves up for abuse. By the time they realize that they’re being abused, they will become ashamed and quietly bow out. It’s just a matter of time before they will eat their words.

        All women have to do is realize the media still shows men fully clothed – with the occasional bare chest and they sure as hell don’t get together talking about penises – throwing that word around adnauseum. No, if they ever show such a thing, then it’s about being studly and performance and condoms….another degrading reference to women. These aren’t husbands getting together after all.

        No, adawells, this article, was just another straw on the proverbial camel’s back. I was a curious cat, and I just wish I had noted it like I usually do these things and hadn’t clicked on it. Thanks for the information, though – no point in putting my head in the sand like an ostrich.

        Be blessed.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        It’s a very poor piece of writing, I doubt any real research was carried out…the claim is made that 1 in every 2 women will get ovarian cancer – what? Hardly….not even close.

        Also, suggesting routine TVU and CA-125 blood tests is a highly controversial position, it’s not backed by the evidence, neither test is recommended here I’d never permit them. if you’re going to suggest a routine test, you should at least explore the downside to the test and the actual benefit. (not the spin)
        Also, to say American doctors are concerned about HPV testing due to the high number of false positives, give me a break – if you test the right way, you’d see over-treatment rates plummet. These people have knowingly over-screened and over-treated huge numbers of women for decades, any concerns will be about their bottom line, nothing to do with the welfare of women.

  14. IMustBeSurrounded says:

    Hi Everyone! LONG TIME since I’ve been here – but I still keep up on the site. I think you guys covered this for me once before a few years back…but can you remind me…

    If you are High Risk HPV Negative and you are on a confidently monogamous relationship, will you continue to be High Risk HPV Negative?

    They say that the virus can “lay dormant in the body for years and then spring up, so you must continue to be tested” – hmmm.

    Thanks all!

    • Alice (Australia) says:

      This medical caveat about HPV lying dormant and then popping up later always seemed like a fallacy.

      The logic is simple: if our bodies weren’t able to develop immunity against viruses, vaccines wouldn’t work. So the medical fraudsters really should decide what they want to lie about: the virus dormancy theory or the efficacy of vaccination.

      Quacks simply want to trick women into coming back for check-ups and more tests, to keep women under control and make more money. Surely they don’t want monogamous women to test once, find out they don’t have HPV and never come back.

      It also possible that the male-ruled medical world either doesn’t want women to start being suspicious of their partner’s fidelity or hygiene, or male doctors make the “you can never trust your partner 100%” conclusions based on their own life (anyone who spent enough time on any dating website, would tell you that the majority of most promiscuous and perverse users are medical profession).

      • IMustBeSurrounded says:

        ALICE! Thank you so much for your response. This is exactly what I was thinking. How can you fight a virus (cold, flu, hpv) or get vaccinated for it – and then have it POPPING Up again. Than what is the point of the HPV shot! (I know this is a debatable vaccine on every level)

  15. Penelope says:

    ….i write so much, it’s humbling to correct my grammar. Cervical checks – are Not Necessary and Harmful. They do not tell that a woman is about to give birth and they introduce infection – even with gloves on. A woman can be dilated 8 centimeters for days and not give birth…while another woman is not dilated right now, but will give birth in an hour. This is information that’s online. The site Medical Patient Modesty,for example, is a godsend.

    Birth, birth, birth. I don’t recall so much graphic interest in childbirth in the past. But our society is so sexualized, it is somehow inclusive. There’s so much interest in female nudity and implied nudity with strategic coverage. No, childbirth in the media to curious males is code for: women half naked from the waist down – and oh yes, a baby will come out.

    Sigh – when will it stop.

    Be blessed.

  16. Elizabeth says:

    You can imagine some women might panic reading 1 in 2 women will get ovarian cancer, they might consider routine screening tests that are not recommended…they should be forced to print a retraction, it’s more like 1 in 70, not 1 in 2
    How could you make such a huge error? Or, do they do it deliberately….
    Hope most women would see the “article” as absolute rubbish.

  17. adawells says:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hpv-self-sampling-become-new-public-cervical-cancer-screening-bonde

    Also new program for Denmark. I think it’s beginning to look like the UK will be overtaken by North Korea at this rate.

    • moo says:

      Interesting but still the same old – woman who does not screen is sent an ominous letter and a weird contraption she did not ask for. I would prefer it all women were offered the self test and it was not wasted on women such as myself who are not interested in screening whatsoever. I would like the screening registries to stop bothering me and let women make their own decisions. Yes I did send in the form to stop the letters or phone calls but if I sign up for a family doctor them I am going to be pestered for screening tests.

  18. moo says:

    I was looking at some articles about the pink pussy hat and women’s marches. Women dressed as giant vaginas or holding up signs with paintings of vaginas etc. They are pushing for human rights and woman’s issues. I really would like to know if they are pushing for more pap tests or less?

    • Penelope says:

      Hi Moo:

      That was awesome back in January, wasn’t it. Women were globally protesting and marching for women’s rights – all rights- not just reproductive. Not to be political – the march was in grand protest against President Trump and the continued fallout from a 2005 tape of him saying extremely vulgar things against women – as well as continuing comments and behavior. As long as he’s in, women – people (there were men in those crowds) will march.

      The march was organized on Facebook. I was trying to find out who the exact organizers are, but to no avail. It seems that these are sporadic organizations, but powerful. Please keep looking for announcements. From what I viewed of the march in January – it was a mixed bag of reasons – for birth control, etc. Those hats were – borderline acceptable – but the posters/paintings and women dressed up I think defeated the purpose of retaining womens’ dignity and respect. There’s enough exploitation out there and all that was, really was more exploitation – I’m sure it had men howling, but not for respect of women. For example, Sports Illustrated, I see has forgotten about actually putting women in swimsuits – it’s now soft porn with partially exposed breasts and the smallest, most revealing bottoms that are more lingerie than any swimsuit – that they could find.

      At the march, at least one actress was advocating for getting testing, but I don’t believe that was the whole crowd. From what I could see there weren’t demands printed on posters in favor of or against testing. That actress is a sheeple – and hasn’t yet had her eyes opened. Or maybe they have been opened but she’s in denial. I’m noticing subtle changes since she’s given birth. It’s likely that she had a bad experience and is trying to live it down. Her views and others out there like hers shouldn’t be a deterrent though, for interest in future marches. What’s good is that the march brought millions of women together globally. I’m sure that a good portion of that whole crowd includes women against testing – i just hope that soon that these marches will include being completely against paps and pelvics. That would be incredible, Moo, if they used that power against the sexual abuse known as pelvic exams and birth trauma against the ob/gyn industry. But, for this moment, the focus is on sending strong messages to the current the U.S. president – who is misogynistic – and just plain unqualified to be president and awful.

  19. katrehman says:

    Remember last year Scotland were so worried about smear uptake they promised a new hard hitting campaign? I came across it yesterday not sure how to post link but Google Scottish cervical cancer campaign . its basically assuming embarrassment is the reason women don’t to and tells you not to fanny about but get tested there’s a picture of flowers which when you tap the play arrow turns into a talking vagina! Its scares me they seriously think it will make people go and the waste of money to a health service on its knees…

    • adawells says:

      Kat, I saw this. I saw it was a close up of a pink rose, with the folds of the petals clearly in the shape of female genitals. I had no idea it spoke. I expect they had a lot of fun making that. Now, I wonder if the bowel screening programme will have a bum hole that talks to you? No, surely advertising like that wouldn’t be acceptable for men, but for silly, immature girlies who waver from embarrassment it’s​ deemed appropriate.

      • katrehman says:

        Ada the vagina didn’t move in line with the speech but u could be forgiven for it as the speech started when it morphed into a vagina!!a talking bum hole. …hmm. .talking out of your backside or talking s…? Lol

    • Penelope says:

      Hi Kat:

      I saw the article. It’s not talking, but there’s a voice behind it in a sing-song sweet Scottish brogue – as sweeeeet as possible saying to stop fannying around and get tested. Yes, Adawells is absolutely right. They don’t do that for men. Can you imagine: a bunch of bananas against a black background, under a spotlight, and a macho male voice scolding and castigating men about getting tested. If they think that it’s all about embarrassment, then they’re sorely wrong. Whoever came up with that ad probably heard it in the wind that women don’t like getting tested – likely a male clueless male gyn – and figured talking to them like children- as he always has – will get women into the offices to pull down their pants. They didn’t consider the whole truth. And nowhere does it mention choice and informed consent.. Truly heinous, Kat.

  20. katrehman says:

    Also they’re still assuming we’re embarrassed..when will it sink in ? If they stopped rubbishing us and produced a more acceptable test more might go! Still they persist in so called hard hitting scare campaigns…and they think we’re daft?!

  21. Elizabeth says:

    They refuse to see we have a choice about screening, these old tactics are completely unacceptable, when will they speak to women and treat us like independent adults? Until attitudes changes, women will be treated like good girls who screen or silly girls who don’t…
    If embarrassment is a barrier, that needs to be accepted and a self-testing option made freely available but that doesn’t negate choice…some women don’t want to screen, end of story. We’re individuals, not a herd to be manipulated and controlled…the attitude that says it’s okay to challenge or ridicule a woman who chooses not to screen needs to be tackled as well.
    Incredible that in 2017 they still promote screening as a must and in a flippant way, talking vaginas, doubt we’ll ever see a talking penis. It’s an insulting way to treat and view women.

  22. Elizabeth says:

    You have only to compare the pressure to have cervical and bowel screening, the latter is close to a yawn in comparison even though that cancer is far more likely. The medical profession and these programs are based on the idea that they know best, so just a Q of capturing us…amazing that view is still so strong.

  23. katrehman says:

    I just emailed Scottish health and told them what I thought and suggested a campaign for the men. Speech bubble from pic of anus belittling and telling them not to die of embarrassent but to have bowel scope screening!

    • adawells says:

      “We hope you will appreciate that the cervical screening programme continues to develop and improve as new evidence emerges.”

      If this test had been properly tested before it was made into a national programme, they would not be having to make corrections to a dodgy 1930’s test today. Plenty of old research papers refer to HPV being the cause of cervical cancer as far back as 1990’s. Action should have been taken in those days to put resources into HPV research and tests. Instead it has all been poured into maintaining screening programs to keep the Pap test on a pedestal.

  24. ChasUK says:

    I just looked up this https://www.jostrust.org.uk/about-us/annual-review-and-accounts – a lot f money made that does not go directly to any actual cancer research.

    https://www.jostrust.org.uk/about-us/finance/how-we-spend-our-money
    It is always about money and greed!

    • adawells says:

      I signed the petition for the tax on sanitary products to be removed, and was horrified to find this money was then being transferred to the coffers of Jo’s Trust.
      I’d like to see a full investigation into these charities. They spend a lot on “raising awareness” which often involves traveling the country speaking for 20 mins at events followed by a good deal of socialising- evening banquets, drinks, not to mention traveling costs and hotel bills. A lot of these people are exhibitionists who love to be seen in the media, but claiming they are only doing it to help others, and that their funny pink costumes are all to help people with cancer think that it’s all a cheeky fun circus. I saw a young mother complain on Twitter that she’d been criticized for appearing in a local newspaper about her “brush with cancer”. Turns out she only had an abnormal smear test once, but, not wanting to miss out on cervical cancer awareness week, had decided to contact the local newspaper and tell them about it. The press duly turned up with the cameras at her home and made a big story about it. From her tweets it seems she came in for some heavy criticism on social media, with people attacking her for being a fraud. “I only did it to help others, not for myself” she tweeted. Of course she did. The press makes lots of sales, and it’s a good awareness raising exercise for the charities. And the number of young women dying from cervical cancer hasn’t changed a bit since 1950’s.

      • katrehman says:

        Yes Ada I remember the TORY MP guffawing that women paid for their services like jos trust by having periods. We pay for the services that bully force and brainwash us into smear testing. …!! Grrrr

  25. Penelope says:

    Happy St.Patrick’s Day!

    I checked out that website, ChasUK. Yes, it’s about money and greed. In the U.S., charities are required to report how much of their funds go towards administration and how much go to the actual research and direct care of the beneficiaries of the charity. For example, the Muscular Dystropy association spends untold sums on research, camps, wheelchairs, braces. They report periodic breakthroughs which are very hopeful. I don’t see this for this charity. I do see support of something that is rare – and subtle scare tactics about symptoms…which are common to fibroids…or abnormal periods, for example, but not cancer. This charity put in painstaking detail about what money goes where – but, from what I see it’s administrative costs. That’s fancy for the people who run the charity. These people do work and then get paid. But no real money is put towards ending cervical cancer or new drugs or new methods to improve survival. If it’s there, then I missed reading everything else. I didn’t notice if they mentioned the rarity of it by the way. No, this is what I call a bleeding heart charity where they set up the site in Pepto Bismol pink, to emote a pretty, friendly, let’s be girlfriends feel. This is an effort to get people to take pity, get emotional, get worried and paraniod, and donate untold sums of money – into their pockets. It is indeed – a business venture for the owners of the charity. They offer no new hope or breakthroughs. At most it’s a club for those who think they have had it (if the diagnosis was correct)t or were scared by a diagnosis that – until further notice – turns out to be negative and need support. The truth about cervical cancer is optional on this site. it sure as heck doesn’t mention about our issues with paps and pelvics and alternative, non-invasive testing. No, it’s just following the status quo. I doubt that all of those women or those that know someone who was affected – where all truly diagnosed – likely a misdiagnosis from all that we have learned about this gyno profession. Abnormal cells are normal, but are misdiagnosed we know. Seeing how rare it is – and mostly not in the U.S. or U.K,, it’s unlikely that these are some of the only people to get it – and have managed to find each other.

    Thanks for the information. Be blessed.

  26. Elizabeth says:

    The so-called cancer charities tend to focus on screening and awareness, not treatments, cures or research. The pink ribbon juggernaut is a slick commercial campaign, but not sure it’s done much for women. You never hear them warning women about the risks of screening, or respecting choice…they seem to focus on fear, so-called survivors stories and raising money for more awareness campaigns.
    I’ve written to a few over the years and was shut down very quickly, zero interest in better screening options, the evidence, over-treatment etc.
    Most woukdn’t recognize the evidence if it bit them on the backside…or they choose to ignore it, their agenda, their survival and the strength of their voice and influence is all important.
    I always look behind these groups, how are they funded? What’s their focus?
    You’ll often find vested interests sitting on the Board watching over their commercial operations.
    Many have contributed to the dismissal of consent and informed consent and have not supported evidence based improvements, unless it sits well with their best interests.
    I tend to dismiss most of them…

  27. katrehman says:

    Hi ladies! Surprise I had a reply to the email I sent Scottish cervical screening about the flower ad in my email I commented on self testing if women were embarrassed instead of rubbishing them and telling them to stop fannying around and how about a talking anus for the men with don’t die of embarrassment get a sigmoidoscopy. Marketing manager Nicola Blackler replied
    Dear kat many thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback on the recent cervical screening campaign. I acknowledge your concerns about the approach used in the campaign. As is the case in england uptake of cervical screening is on the decline whilst the number of deaths from cc is increasing. Its the most common cancer iin young women and. Smear testing is the most effective way of preventing cc from developing. We completely appreciate the decision to be screened is a matter of personal choice and indeed our cc leaflet invitation lerter ect makes this perfectly clear however our research told us that many women don’t attend their smear test because they done wither understand the importance of it or barriers such as embarrassment get in the way. There was therefore a clear need to engage and educate women on the importance of having their smear test and address these significant barriers to attending so they’re more informed and able to make a personal choice when invited
    We needed a campaign that would stand out and grab young women’s attention especially in the digital context where competition for attention is high. We were of course aware of the need to do thus in the right way which was why we commissioned independent research with our target group women ages 25-35
    The flower route came out as the preferred route from testing.The campaign narrative strikes a balance between being scary and empowering (blergh!! Sorry kats comments) which our audience felt the subject needed. Women told UA the subject needed to make them feel uncomfortable and ensure an emotional reaction and reflect how they felt about a smear test itself as well as tacking significant existing barriers to attending
    Moreover the use of informal language resonates well and was engaging and provoked thinking and talking about the ad and issue. The campaign has been received well with strong positive fwedack across all social media platforms
    We do appreciate you taking the time to get in touch .Ultimately we have to be guides by customer insight and campaigns particularly bold ones may always be decisive and can never satisfy everyone. End of msg

    So she seems to be saying worn asked to be patronised and rubbished the way the ad did.and no mention of self testing??? Hmmmm

    • katrehman says:

      Please excuse typos. Still cant type on tablet. She did reply but I feel it’s same old. No mention of self testing and why don’t they have campaigns for the men? Would that ad really make you have a smear test? ??

    • adawells says:

      Thanks for posting this Kat. I’m going to write myself. There is no increase in deaths from cervical cancer, and they continue to fall. Would be interesting where she got this idea from…Jo’s Trust?

  28. adawells says:

    Let’s hope it has no effect.

  29. katrehman says:

    This is the email I sent and she’s ignored a few bits
    I realize I live in england and its nothing to do with me but I’ve just seen your latest attempt into scaring women into having a smear test. Stop fannying around and get tested. And a pic of a flower that morphs into a vagina. Is this really an acceptable and respectful way to address women? The advert makes no mention of informed consent and belittles women by the tone and assuming they don’t attend through embarrassment. If women are embarrassed it’s a big barrier . instead of belittling them why not simply roll out self testing as our Dutch counterparts have done?
    I don’t see any programmes belittling men… How about a picture of an anus with a speech bubble coming out saying don’t die of embarrassment get a sigmoidoscopy?
    Women have been mialws about cervical cancer for years. There will never be respect for informed consent as long as doctors have tarrgeta to hit. I officially opted out in 2015and have all but given up on visiting my doctor as all he’s interested in is my “flower!”

    • linda says:

      Great work Kat. The advert annoyed me as well. Even tho its for Scotland we saw it one night here in the North West. Its more or less saying women are too embarrassed. That’s old hat now. THEY KNOW WE ARE NOT EMBARRASSED. Its just another lie perpetuated by the screening elves.

      Linda x

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