Discussion Forum (Unnecessary Pap Smears: Part Two)

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion.

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog. (click on title or graphic to go to comments)

About forwomenseyesonly

Hi. My name is Sue and I am interested in promoting holistic and respectful health care.
Gallery | This entry was posted in discussion about womens health, pap test and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

3,655 Responses to Discussion Forum (Unnecessary Pap Smears: Part Two)

  1. katrehman says:

    Oh my days ladies daily mail today. Storm of protest about the Aussie move to 5 year HPV testing .petitions protesting against it….

  2. Elizabeth says:

    Breast self exams and clinical breast exams are not recommended, many of us choose not to have mammograms, we’re told to be “breast aware” and see a doctor if we feel or see something new, like dimpling of the skin or a lump.
    I know some women still do something close to self examination, where they section the breast and palpate each area.
    I just take note of the normal look of my breasts in the mirror after I shower, I also use some liquid soap in the shower and run my hand over each breast, lightly, part of the washing process, not palpating…
    The late Prof Austoker promoted breast awareness, I don’t think that involved touching the breasts, just being observant.
    Some women do more than observe, they might use shower wash to gently run their hand over each breast, others apply more pressure or section off the breast similar to the old self-exam.

    I was speaking to a workmate yesterday, it’s not working for her. The idea with breast awareness was to act if you see something unusual/different AND avoid the risks with mammograms, radiation, anxiety, over-diagnosis, false positives and excess biopsies.

    So she checks her breasts in the mirror every day but also lightly touches each breast, looking for lumps, more than observing, less than the full self-exam.
    Now because she doesn’t have mammograms, her GP said to be very careful and see her promptly with any changes. About 3 years ago at 52 she felt a small pimple, it was difficult to see, just feel, so she went to the GP, who did a CBE and sent her for a mammogram. “Something” appeared (nothing to do with the pimple, which was ruled out as a skin tag, we get more bumps and marks as we age, inside and out) anyway, chasing the rabbit down the hole resulted in another 2 mammograms, ultrasound and biopsy.
    Nothing found…
    Last year she “thought” she felt a thickening, so the same thing happened…

    Her point to me…I would probably have had less radiation if I’d had two yearly mammograms as part of the program, she feels either way, they’ll get her. After the last scare, she’s afraid to check her breasts and can understand why some women view them with fear and suspicion and why some opt to have them removed…

    I know breast cancer is a concern so many women feel they should be doing “something”…mammograms, breast awareness (no touching or only light touching) or breast self-exams. Just wondered if others have found choosing not to have mammograms and doing something else has actually led to more mammograms and interventions.
    My workmate said her GP is cautious with her too because, “you’re one of my unscreened patients”…so she feels she gets sent off very quickly.
    I haven’t had any issues and I’m almost 59 but that might be because I look, I don’t do any sort of breast exam. (and only light touch during the washing process)

    • adawells says:

      From what I have read in accounts of women who’ve had an aggressive cancer you will know about it if you get it. A woman (who had attended mammograms and had negative results) got a small pins & needles tingling in her breast, and this turned out to be a rare aggressive cancer. Of course the press seized on this to promote screening instead of being aware of the symptoms.

      I don’t know of anyone who’s declined mammograms and then found herself getting more treatment as a result of her decision. I know when I first went to my ex-GP with post-menopausal bleeding 3 years ago, she wanted to kick the appointment off with a breast exam, as GP’s are sent alerts that you have declined mammograms. I had a very unhappy row with her and followed this up with a letter of complaint to the practice, then followed this up with letters to everywhere else, but it gets you nowhere.

      Hazel Thornton has done a lot for exposing the DCIS scandal, as she was diagnosed with this herself many years ago. She did the research and realised that women were being pushed into mastectomies for something that wouldn’t change in their lifetime. She’s an academic and has written papers with your Alexandra Barratt.

      I have never forgotten a lady who posted on patient.co.uk about how a mammogram has put her on a conveyor belt of biopsies and painful tests for years. She has had one of those marker clips put in as the questionable area picked up by the first mammogram is too normal to pick out again and the last few years of her life have been spent poking and prodding this area in repeat hospital appointments. The breast now has so much internal scarring that it obscures any possible cancer which may be there, so necessitating more invasive resting. As nothing has ever been found, she is one of a growing number of women regretting that she ever had that mammogram. I could have spent these last few years completely free of all this, she wrote.

    • Heather - Australia says:

      It is hard to imagine how scared and anxious that woman must be if she is checking her breasts every day! It is borderline obsession. And it is completely useless for prevention. Breast tumours are not juvenile pimples: they don’t pop up overnight. A tumour appears out of one cell and grows slowly. So checking breasts every day for any changes will totally miss slow growths, and will instead pick up normal, benign changes in tissues that appear depending on temperature, diet, transient cold/flu, minor traumas, hormonal variations and so on. To be even remotely able to feel a true tumour, she should be checking no more frequently than once every 2-3 months. Otherwise it is a totally pointless disturbance of her breasts, and one shouldn’t be doing that unless it is a part of a much more enjoyable process.

  3. katrehman says:

    Ada I’m not on sny social media but instagram. .. ladies any and everywhere. . Please raise awareness x

    • Mary says:

      I’m not on social media either, but there’s a pap smear facebook page of outraged women..

      • Mary says:

        Don’t you love how the changes in screening are messing with these outraged women’s minds? We the lunatic fringe, now we have the president of the AMA supporting what we’ve been saying all along. Vindication. But why do these women who love taking what their doctors say as gospel have such a hard time listening to their doctors now? It’s just absurd that some women are not capable of understanding that knowledge in science is constantly evolving.

      • adawells says:

        https://plasticdollheads.wordpress.com/2017/01/14/the-fear-mongering-of-the-smear/

        Hi Mary, could you give me some clues how to find them? Browsing Facebook I’ve only come across the rabid pro-screening brigade who want smears forced on everyone.

        A lone voice of commonsense is the blog post above.

      • Mary says:

        Adawells I just googled pap smears and facebook and it came up first on the list. My pro pap smear false positive victim, “I had cin 3 I wouldn’t be alive here today” friend told me about it. Thanks for giving me the link of the AMA president saying these women are misguided. I sent that to her.
        Elizabeth, two medical textbooks that I have had to use both repeat the myth that cervical cancer is common and pap smears have been the greatest success story in screening. So no wonder GPs are misinformed.

      • Mary says:

        Sorry Adawells that’s what I was talking about. The propap outraged facebook group. My friend told me about them. I think she thinks they know what they are talking about and I don’t.

      • adawells says:

        https://ama.com.au/ausmed/cervical-cancer-screening

        Mary, perhaps you could show Ms I-wouldn’t-be-here-today this announcement from Michael Gannon. I’ve not seen one so honest about the damage this test does to women and their babies, but it was all done “in good faith”. How can a gynaecologist of his standing say this when a lot of us women suspected all this from 1989?

      • Mary says:

        I notice the Dr doesn’t mention miscarriages. That would open up a can of worms now wouldn’t it? And guess what? My friend had a midterm miscarriage. Was it related to that? We’ll never know as she was older But she never got pregnant again and remained childless much to her regret.

      • adawells says:

        I’ve just had a look on Facebook and seen the Aussie posts. They are delusional. Someone has set up a Facebook page called:

        Cervical screening – right to refuse

        Only one I can find speaking out.

  4. Elizabeth says:

    The petition started after a doctor and nurse expressed their concern to a patient about the changes, moving to 5 yearly screening and starting at 25. I know many doctors don’t understand or are unaware of the evidence, many seem to confuse “treatment for pre-cancerous cells” as stopping cancer in its tracks. (when it’s mostly over- treatment) We know women under 30 don’t benefit from pop testing, but lots will end up being “treated” and we also know most women are hpv- and not at risk of cc.
    I had a young GP say to me once, “you wouldn’t say that if you saw all the abnormal smears in young women”…she was gobsmacked when I replied, “not at all, I’d expect it, you understand they’re false positives, don’t you?”
    It was clear she didn’t understand, she believed the hype, I also, wonder how cervical screening is presented at Medical School.
    So you have women deliberately misled for decades, plus enormous pressure to screen, lots of scare tactics AND doctors who don’t have a clue or choose to mislead women.
    The Petition will go nowhere, the juggernaut has been re-positioned and will churn into action in July.
    Actually, I expected more push-back last year, but the “convenient” explanation was accepted by many….that HPV vaccination now makes it safe to extend screening intervals and to start later.
    Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive…

  5. katrehman says:

    Ada I checked dollheads out. .she talks a lot of sense! As to the Aussie storm..it’s ironic the program is a victim of its own success. Women who were told how rampant CC is now terrified y the thought of less frequent smears!

    • adawells says:

      Exactly Kat and Elizabeth, they deliberately created this hysteria that we’re all about to drop dead from cervical cancer, and that every single smear is a life saver, and now they’ve got to get the message across that a quarter as many tests would do the job any way. Of course there’s a bottomless pit of taxpayers money available for this purpose, and the elderly parked on trolleys in hospital corridors can just be left in their own urine soaked sheets. Screening juggernaut must have priority.

    • Heather - Australia says:

      For too long Australian women have been brainwashed into the belief that they will sure die if they don’t present their cervix for scraping every 2 years. For decades, we’ve been told that “cervical cancer is the most common cause of death in women”. Of course huge herds of ignorant sheeple are going to think that they are about to be murdered as the old cervix-butchering program is on its way out.
      The screening Nazis clearly overdid it with their scaremongering. So now they will have to come up with new hype, slogans and tactics. And they will, no doubt about that.

  6. adawells says:

    https://www.healthwatch-uk.org/news/121-winter-2016-17-healthwatch-newsletter-out-now.html

    Peter GΓΈetzsche has been given an award by Healthwatch. He has written a great article on pages 6-8 of the latest edition about mammograms, which you can download from the link.

  7. Elizabeth says:

    Women here have been warned not to miss their two yearly Pap tests, the program suspected some women were waiting for the new 5 year hpv program to start. So you can’t have it both ways, mislead and deceive and then do a 360 when it suits, I suppose they thought the trusting herd would ask no questions and just follow along compliantly.
    Not sure if you can access the Medical Observer, but there’s an article expressing concern that the Petition is gaining traction, a call is made for the Govt to start an “education” program.
    So I assume a suitable “story” will be presented shortly, new evidence is probably the safest one (for them) Of course, this new evidence is anything but, two yearly Pap testing amounts to serious over- screening, that’s been known for decades. We’ve known for ages that over-screening means more false positives and over-treatment. We’ve known Pap testing is harm/risk for no benefit for those under 30 since at least the 1960s or 1970s, I believe we conveniently “questioned” this research to block changes for as long as possible.
    Everyone was happy to scrape, cut and burn HUGE numbers of women, it’s usually this group that call themselves survivors….of course, they’re almost all simply victims of the program and the greed of those who’ve benefited from the excess. Most of this damage was avoidable, but no one cared to protect women.

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if they were finally exposed as medical abusers? They’ve happily trotted out misinformation for decades, they were even happy to coerce women into testing. (Arguably that means no consent at all, you could say that applies when women are misled into screening)
    Some may call for a full and independent enquiry – bring it on!
    Apparently, senior and high profile doctors are being asked to respond to some of the comments attached to the online petition.
    Of course, every approach simply highlights there’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense, but so cocky is this program they intend to do hpv testing on women aged 25 to 29, when they know this will simply send a lot of young women off for excess colposcopy and biopsy.
    The fact is they simply don’t care about women, it’s about control, exploitation and profits, pretending to be screening.

    • Mary says:

      I used to be able to access the Medical Observer and then I was denied access. I shouldn’t have made so many critical comments. I think I got banned. Lol.
      They will say it’s because of the HPV vaccine. That’s what I’ve been hearing, although it doesn’t explain why women who are too old to get the vaccine are also included in the new program.

      • Elizabeth says:

        Hi Mary
        I’ve heard that too and naturally, that scares the life out of the girls who opted for no hpv vaccination (or their parents said No) or those who were older than 26 when it was released or those already sexually active when they were vaccinated etc.
        Hopefully, more women will smell a big, fat rat…

      • Elizabeth says:

        It’s really telling when you read through the comments attached to the Petition, “I had cervical cancer at 16 and was saved by a Pap test, I’d have been dead at 25” or
        “Three of my friends had treatment for cervical cancer before they turned 20″…
        No surprises there, I’m sure they were…but they were actually over-treated and should never have been tested in the first place. You can see why they went to 25 and not the evidence based starting age if 30! The Dutch had no problem with their new program because they’ve never officially tested before 30.
        No attempt was made to wind our program back, they just kept seriously over-screening and over-treating, so we now have senior doctors telling us why we should make this change, but they’ve known about these issues for many years and either remained silent or attacked/discredited/dismissed those with concerns. Hardly surprising many see the contradictions…

        Previously, these early “scares” were probably considered helpful, scaring women into future testing compliance, sending them off to urge others to do the same thing, but now the lies are not so helpful. So many women have faced an “abnormal” Pap test and had “cancerous” cells removed, naturally, these women are appalled at the changes. The perfect mass deception is now a barrier to change…

        There was some research comparing Pap test results of young women with Gardasil records, that made clear some of our GPs were testing girls under 17. This is pure incompetence, but some gp’s felt “high risk” girls should be tested or they couldn’t see the harm starting the test early, one doctor said it sets up good screening habits.
        So our screened group has been well over-treated thanks to excessive and inappropriate Pap testing. The comments now being made by the AMA and others is what we’ve been saying for a long time now but we were blocked, censored, moderated, banned (up until recently) It says to me the profession here has so little respect for women that it really didn’t occur to them there could be serious push-back.
        The program has brainwashed many, the testing program has created a huge group of “survivors” – you can’t now demand that women believe something completely different, especially after you’ve been reinforcing the misinformation up until very recently…
        Treating women like fools, assuming we can all be manipulated and re-directed at their will, might just end up biting them on the backside.
        About 77% of screened women have had something done to their cervix…77%…and you’re now telling these women that cc is actually quite rare, it’s safe to extend the screening interval etc.

      • Mary says:

        Hi Elizabeth,
        On the radio this week they talked to the doctor who wrote an article about the new HPV test in the SMH the other day. Anyway, this older sounding women rang up and complained that why couldn’t women do self testing like the colon cancer test. She complained how undignified it is. The doctor just minimised it and said that the doctor should talk you through it if you are anxious etc. The Dr also said self testing is less accurate.
        I thought to myself here’s another women who doesn’t realise she can just say no if she doesn’t want to. I wished I could have told her about this site.

  8. Alex says:

    Hello, everyone. Haven’t been on here in a while & thought I might ask a question: How can a Canadian woman get birth control without doctors? I was walking around & talking with this woman from my hostel (I’m in Portugal right now) & she had mentioned birth control in Canada was an issue & I remembered that somebody in here found an angle. It wasn’t the one about getting them from the psychiatrist, it was some website (I think).

    If I see her again, I’d like to give her an angle (I already told her it was illegal & I had tracked that down for some woman from Canada, but it might be good to give an option that she doesn’t have to butt heads with people on. I’ll refer her to this site anyway, I just was wondering about it & thought I’d ask.

    • Elizabeth says:

      Hi Alex
      Hope you’re enjoying Portugal, I enjoyed a brief visit about 8 years ago, loved Sintra and Obibos…and the warm Portuguese custard tarts in Lisbon, yum.
      Not sure about the official position in Portugal but I think most pharmacists will supply you with the Pill, over the counter, with no script. I’d go into a pharmacy and ask…

      I found the pharmacists to be really helpful. I used the opportunity to get some more cream for dermatitis, it was quite hot during my stay and I felt dermatitis was starting on my neck. It’s important to start using the cream as soon as you notice it starting, it can become nasty very quickly, esp if it’s humid.
      I have to see a doctor here for repeats even though I’ve used the cream on and off with no drama for over ten years. The Portuguese pharmacist simply ran through the adverse reactions I might experience, and handed it over, much cheaper than Australia too.

      While I was waiting a man asked for migraine meds, he was a tourist too, the pharmacist called a doctor, had a chat and handed over something for the migraines.
      Our pharmacists are under-utilised, the AMA and others refuse to work with them, desperate to protect market share and profits, they want to keep us going in to collect scripts/repeats. I now pay $80 for a 5 minute consult to collect a repeat, and get $20+ back from Medicare.
      I know one Portuguese pharmacist had a doctor on site who authorised some drugs after a quick consult.
      I’m sure someone will give you the reliable on-line pharmacy sites, but I’d be surprised if your friend had trouble getting the Pill in Portugal.
      Enjoy Portugal…

      • Alex says:

        Yeah, Spain & Portugal seem to be much better with that, but she lives in Canada. Haven’t seen her in a while & I didn’t give her my number, since I grew up with that as a romantic/dating sort of thing & she has a boyfriend.

        I know it’s not necessarily that way, I just was a little nervous that I was going to weird her out & she looked like she really wanted to get some sleep. I’m kind of regretting it, since I enjoyed her company & I generally just “get along” with others.

  9. Elizabeth says:

    Sorry, Canada is a whole other matter.
    Sure someone can help with a website but I think Canada stops shipments of prescription drugs, or that’s a risk anyway…
    Hopefully, one of our Canadians can give you some advice.
    Can you still get the Pill OTC in California and Oregon? Just curious…

  10. adawells says:

    http://snip.ly/j39bo#http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4222628/Surge-women-s-hair-transplants-BIKINI-LINES.html

    I haven’t been able to stop giggling over this all evening.😁 Women seeking pubic hair transplants after they’ve had a few too many waxes.πŸ˜€πŸ˜€ Idiots! This woman has had hair taken from the back of her head inserted into her “front bottom”. I wonder if she has beautiful long hair, as she may find her pubes down to her knees in a few months time. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
    There could be some interesting possibilities for men who are getting thin on top by having a reverse procedure by getting a luxurient crop of curly pubes on top.πŸ˜… Only in the Daily Fail.

  11. katrehman says:

    Hi linda and ada. ..it’s mind boggling!! Talk about lol

  12. katrehman says:

    Daily mail yesterday ladies ehy you shouldn’t totally rely on your pap test result……

  13. Penelope says:

    I’m sorry. I won’t laugh. I won’t.

    Hi Everyone:

    Sometimes it’s hard to know when to jump into the comments. My heart goes out each time I read all the heartwrenching testimonies on here. But, I know I can’t answer everyone and our veterans on here are so much better with poviding medical studies and information than I am. My apologies for not helping, but I’m here to support. And then, I’m inspired and my hope for women’s health is encouraged by the medical articles and information that our veterans continue to present on our site.

    I looked at this article, and became seriously disappointed yet again. I’m so, so, so tired of women being exploited. Yes, women who pose naked (like this idiot who put her naked crotch on display in the Daily Mail for this private matter) – get what they pay for – they did it out of low self esteem and for money. They eventually learn that it’s not empowering, but reallllly stupid – and I notice, they don’t do it again. It’s when women who didn’t ask for it – are exploited in the medical profession – that breaks my heart. And, it’s always, always, ALWAYS a man that comes up with this crap to work on women’s intimate body parts. Women line up like idiots. There’s also vaginal rejuvination surgery. So, women, allow themselves to go unconscious so that some man, who will never be their husband, can – in addition to “helping them,” play with their vaginas, masturbate to them, take pictures for private use – it’s been done – just check the news. I saw a site, where the bastard put the pictures he took while they were unconscious, on display – to show the procedure worked. I don’t see any pictures of men who’ve penile or male enhancement surgery on any website. I dare say that if women were prominent in the medical profession that they would come up with these procedures and not exploit women like that. If it must be done, AREN’T there any women doctors who perform this procedure?

    I made the mistake of watching childbirth shows again. What the devil was I expecting. I guess I was feeling bad and needed to get angry at something to take my mind off of my problems. The shows are nothing but exploitation. Showing women with nurses and male doctors putting their fingers up their vaginas for cervical check that don’t help with the childbirth process. They get away with showing parts of their open legs. Funny, how there are no shows about male procedures with testicles and penises scrambled out. Did these women know that 16 years later their naked vaginas exposed during birth would still be on display on TV. My God. This – sigh – female ob/gyn – was having such a good time digging in this woman’s vagina for a premature baby. The woman was screaming to the top of her lungs. This is called birth trauma. She should have taken her for a C-section – not put that woman through hell on video. She pressed so hard she hurt the baby’s chest and whisked him away out of the room to save him – clearly it was her fault and she had to correct it. In all the flurry the male cameraman – it’s in the credits – had the camera on her open naked legs for seconds after the doctor walked away. So let me get this straight: If a women’s pubic hair shown in a movie – the movie is rated R – if full on nudity – rated X. Yet these bastards show this woman’s naked exposed vagina and there is no culpability – no responsibility because a baby came out??????

    Oh yes they scrambled it, but only an unconscious man wouldn’t know what he is seeing. They treated her with less dignity than an animal giving birth. These women sign off on the contracts – likely the production pays for their expenses – as compensation. Likely they don’t show them the final product. I’m sure they are horrified to see themselves exposed – 15 years later on T.V. There was a woman who sued one of those emergency room shows because she didn’t sign or consent to the footage of her husband being brought in with a heart attack. He died. She couldn’t be bought. She sued the hell out of them. I’ve noticed now, that this channel has scrubbed most of the recent shows – likely as far back as to where the statute of limitations have expired, thus why they keep showing shows that are 10 -16 years old. The others must have had ironclad contracts – or the patients rationalized to let it go as they got paid. Outrageous. In other places, that ‘s called prostitution.

    I have to stay in prayer. This must end. But, it will have to start with women finally taking back their power. We are on our site. Millions of others did in the march in Washington, DC and in different countries (did any women here participate?) in January. This momentum must keep up.

    Everyone be blessed.

    • adawells says:

      Sorry if I’ve caused any upset, but the Daily Fail is such a rag. I strongly suspect that the woman in the article is one of their own journalists.

      • Penelope says:

        Oh no, Adawells – it’s not you. It’s the article I’m disappointed with. I hope someone can answer IMustBeSurrounded – soon. I’m not sure of the answer, but someone here knows.

        I read the Daily Mail from time to time. It’s funny how you call it the daily fail. It is – a tabloid. Like People magazine has nearly become, the Star, the Sun, the Enquirer. Only People magazine and the Daily Mail (I don’t think…) don’t show the very bad cartoonish pictures of aliens.

        Please do laugh if it brightens your day. Remember the article I mentioned on robotic vaginas…that was ridiculous. Haven’t heard if they got it approved or not.

        But, this article is one of many that I could have tripped over in the course of the day. It goes on to show a video presentation of another woman getting a designer vagina. (?!!!) This woman looks like she’s had alot of work done, and is therefore very shallow and vain, and has such low self esteem (like the pubic hair woman before) that she would submit herself to that – and on video. There’s this systemic, institutionalized, disrespect for women by this systemic, desensitization of the words breast, vagina, and to an extent, labia and vulva, and clitoris in the media. The idea seems to be that as long as they keep printing it, the words will stop being private. I sure as hell don’t see this same treatment of penis, testicles, and scrotum; not even the word prostate. No, those are still “dirty” words. Can’t you tell this is perpetuated by the male marketing execs who want to see this in the media, but nothing to do with their pee-pees. It’s too vulgar to mention men’s penises (right). Vulgar is their code word for – embarrassing – no talking about pee-pees…they’re mentally still twelve year old adolescents still peeking at girls through key holes and are insecure about their size.

        That article about the pubic hair woman goes on to mention celebrities – who clearly are shallow and not thinking – who support pubic hair restoration after waxing – the word vagina is thrown around like a frisbee (?!) They’re speaking as if discussing the cure for cancers and the remedy for world peace. It’s galling that and I realize that, women perpetuate this disrespect for women – by posing nude and in their very small underwear at will on social media; in skin care ads (if I had a dollar for every woman I’ve seen shown in the shower for a shower gel or fast-drying lotion…..); posing in and wearing body paint and pasties in public because that is considered to be clothed by law (?!) and talking about body parts routinely. What is this – trend – of women who present themselves on t.v. as girlfriends just hanging out, talking about intimate parts on camera. This is definitely a marketing strategy – the “as long as we’re talking about “serious” issues, we can say vagina a thousand times” strategy. Breastfeeding – I missed the day when people stopped calling it the respectful word – “nursing.” All added up, it is indeed nothing more than systemic disrespect for women. Then, women wonder why when they get to the gyn’s office that they are expected to disrobe and get in stirrups for the doctor, the nurse, and medical students to see; why childbirth is a three-ring circus in hospitals where nurses and male doctors (and now male nurses ?!) think they have the right to stick their fingers up vaginas for cervical checks and then have an audience while they give birth – because they sweat through medical and nursing school. There’s alot of information out there that says those checks are harmful and necessary; that women need to have respect and privacy, and the baby will come – on their time. Birth is induced to move the mom along….the nurses and doctors are tired of waiting and want to move on….

        So, society says that women don’t care, based on all that is out there in the media – perpetuated by womennnnnn – so, why not trust the guy in a lab coat. There are self absorbed women who rationalize that they don’t think it’s sexual to them, so it can’t be sexual to the doctor. However, the doctor, the night before and on the way to work staring at his cellphone, saw allllllllllllllllll that social media with women who were paid to expose themselves naked for skincare ads, porno maybe; saw R-rated with movies with nude women in sex scenes (paid). As far as he’s concerned, it is sexual and women are stupid not to care. Then there’s just enough sheeple lined up in his office to make him believe just that. There’s an article i came across about pap smears by the way….People in the comments section mention our site. These sheeple are clearly brainwashed. They call us anti-medicine and are only into holistic remedies and tried to discredit us. Nevermind they serve themselves up for abuse. By the time they realize that they’re being abused, they will become ashamed and quietly bow out. It’s just a matter of time before they will eat their words.

        All women have to do is realize the media still shows men fully clothed – with the occasional bare chest and they sure as hell don’t get together talking about penises – throwing that word around adnauseum. No, if they ever show such a thing, then it’s about being studly and performance and condoms….another degrading reference to women. These aren’t husbands getting together after all.

        No, adawells, this article, was just another straw on the proverbial camel’s back. I was a curious cat, and I just wish I had noted it like I usually do these things and hadn’t clicked on it. Thanks for the information, though – no point in putting my head in the sand like an ostrich.

        Be blessed.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        It’s a very poor piece of writing, I doubt any real research was carried out…the claim is made that 1 in every 2 women will get ovarian cancer – what? Hardly….not even close.

        Also, suggesting routine TVU and CA-125 blood tests is a highly controversial position, it’s not backed by the evidence, neither test is recommended here I’d never permit them. if you’re going to suggest a routine test, you should at least explore the downside to the test and the actual benefit. (not the spin)
        Also, to say American doctors are concerned about HPV testing due to the high number of false positives, give me a break – if you test the right way, you’d see over-treatment rates plummet. These people have knowingly over-screened and over-treated huge numbers of women for decades, any concerns will be about their bottom line, nothing to do with the welfare of women.

  14. IMustBeSurrounded says:

    Hi Everyone! LONG TIME since I’ve been here – but I still keep up on the site. I think you guys covered this for me once before a few years back…but can you remind me…

    If you are High Risk HPV Negative and you are on a confidently monogamous relationship, will you continue to be High Risk HPV Negative?

    They say that the virus can “lay dormant in the body for years and then spring up, so you must continue to be tested” – hmmm.

    Thanks all!

    • Alice (Australia) says:

      This medical caveat about HPV lying dormant and then popping up later always seemed like a fallacy.

      The logic is simple: if our bodies weren’t able to develop immunity against viruses, vaccines wouldn’t work. So the medical fraudsters really should decide what they want to lie about: the virus dormancy theory or the efficacy of vaccination.

      Quacks simply want to trick women into coming back for check-ups and more tests, to keep women under control and make more money. Surely they don’t want monogamous women to test once, find out they don’t have HPV and never come back.

      It also possible that the male-ruled medical world either doesn’t want women to start being suspicious of their partner’s fidelity or hygiene, or male doctors make the “you can never trust your partner 100%” conclusions based on their own life (anyone who spent enough time on any dating website, would tell you that the majority of most promiscuous and perverse users are medical profession).

      • IMustBeSurrounded says:

        ALICE! Thank you so much for your response. This is exactly what I was thinking. How can you fight a virus (cold, flu, hpv) or get vaccinated for it – and then have it POPPING Up again. Than what is the point of the HPV shot! (I know this is a debatable vaccine on every level)

  15. Penelope says:

    ….i write so much, it’s humbling to correct my grammar. Cervical checks – are Not Necessary and Harmful. They do not tell that a woman is about to give birth and they introduce infection – even with gloves on. A woman can be dilated 8 centimeters for days and not give birth…while another woman is not dilated right now, but will give birth in an hour. This is information that’s online. The site Medical Patient Modesty,for example, is a godsend.

    Birth, birth, birth. I don’t recall so much graphic interest in childbirth in the past. But our society is so sexualized, it is somehow inclusive. There’s so much interest in female nudity and implied nudity with strategic coverage. No, childbirth in the media to curious males is code for: women half naked from the waist down – and oh yes, a baby will come out.

    Sigh – when will it stop.

    Be blessed.

  16. Elizabeth says:

    You can imagine some women might panic reading 1 in 2 women will get ovarian cancer, they might consider routine screening tests that are not recommended…they should be forced to print a retraction, it’s more like 1 in 70, not 1 in 2
    How could you make such a huge error? Or, do they do it deliberately….
    Hope most women would see the “article” as absolute rubbish.

  17. adawells says:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hpv-self-sampling-become-new-public-cervical-cancer-screening-bonde

    Also new program for Denmark. I think it’s beginning to look like the UK will be overtaken by North Korea at this rate.

    • moo says:

      Interesting but still the same old – woman who does not screen is sent an ominous letter and a weird contraption she did not ask for. I would prefer it all women were offered the self test and it was not wasted on women such as myself who are not interested in screening whatsoever. I would like the screening registries to stop bothering me and let women make their own decisions. Yes I did send in the form to stop the letters or phone calls but if I sign up for a family doctor them I am going to be pestered for screening tests.

  18. moo says:

    I was looking at some articles about the pink pussy hat and women’s marches. Women dressed as giant vaginas or holding up signs with paintings of vaginas etc. They are pushing for human rights and woman’s issues. I really would like to know if they are pushing for more pap tests or less?

    • Penelope says:

      Hi Moo:

      That was awesome back in January, wasn’t it. Women were globally protesting and marching for women’s rights – all rights- not just reproductive. Not to be political – the march was in grand protest against President Trump and the continued fallout from a 2005 tape of him saying extremely vulgar things against women – as well as continuing comments and behavior. As long as he’s in, women – people (there were men in those crowds) will march.

      The march was organized on Facebook. I was trying to find out who the exact organizers are, but to no avail. It seems that these are sporadic organizations, but powerful. Please keep looking for announcements. From what I viewed of the march in January – it was a mixed bag of reasons – for birth control, etc. Those hats were – borderline acceptable – but the posters/paintings and women dressed up I think defeated the purpose of retaining womens’ dignity and respect. There’s enough exploitation out there and all that was, really was more exploitation – I’m sure it had men howling, but not for respect of women. For example, Sports Illustrated, I see has forgotten about actually putting women in swimsuits – it’s now soft porn with partially exposed breasts and the smallest, most revealing bottoms that are more lingerie than any swimsuit – that they could find.

      At the march, at least one actress was advocating for getting testing, but I don’t believe that was the whole crowd. From what I could see there weren’t demands printed on posters in favor of or against testing. That actress is a sheeple – and hasn’t yet had her eyes opened. Or maybe they have been opened but she’s in denial. I’m noticing subtle changes since she’s given birth. It’s likely that she had a bad experience and is trying to live it down. Her views and others out there like hers shouldn’t be a deterrent though, for interest in future marches. What’s good is that the march brought millions of women together globally. I’m sure that a good portion of that whole crowd includes women against testing – i just hope that soon that these marches will include being completely against paps and pelvics. That would be incredible, Moo, if they used that power against the sexual abuse known as pelvic exams and birth trauma against the ob/gyn industry. But, for this moment, the focus is on sending strong messages to the current the U.S. president – who is misogynistic – and just plain unqualified to be president and awful.

  19. katrehman says:

    Remember last year Scotland were so worried about smear uptake they promised a new hard hitting campaign? I came across it yesterday not sure how to post link but Google Scottish cervical cancer campaign . its basically assuming embarrassment is the reason women don’t to and tells you not to fanny about but get tested there’s a picture of flowers which when you tap the play arrow turns into a talking vagina! Its scares me they seriously think it will make people go and the waste of money to a health service on its knees…

    • adawells says:

      Kat, I saw this. I saw it was a close up of a pink rose, with the folds of the petals clearly in the shape of female genitals. I had no idea it spoke. I expect they had a lot of fun making that. Now, I wonder if the bowel screening programme will have a bum hole that talks to you? No, surely advertising like that wouldn’t be acceptable for men, but for silly, immature girlies who waver from embarrassment it’s​ deemed appropriate.

      • katrehman says:

        Ada the vagina didn’t move in line with the speech but u could be forgiven for it as the speech started when it morphed into a vagina!!a talking bum hole. …hmm. .talking out of your backside or talking s…? Lol

    • Penelope says:

      Hi Kat:

      I saw the article. It’s not talking, but there’s a voice behind it in a sing-song sweet Scottish brogue – as sweeeeet as possible saying to stop fannying around and get tested. Yes, Adawells is absolutely right. They don’t do that for men. Can you imagine: a bunch of bananas against a black background, under a spotlight, and a macho male voice scolding and castigating men about getting tested. If they think that it’s all about embarrassment, then they’re sorely wrong. Whoever came up with that ad probably heard it in the wind that women don’t like getting tested – likely a male clueless male gyn – and figured talking to them like children- as he always has – will get women into the offices to pull down their pants. They didn’t consider the whole truth. And nowhere does it mention choice and informed consent.. Truly heinous, Kat.

  20. katrehman says:

    Also they’re still assuming we’re embarrassed..when will it sink in ? If they stopped rubbishing us and produced a more acceptable test more might go! Still they persist in so called hard hitting scare campaigns…and they think we’re daft?!

  21. Elizabeth says:

    They refuse to see we have a choice about screening, these old tactics are completely unacceptable, when will they speak to women and treat us like independent adults? Until attitudes changes, women will be treated like good girls who screen or silly girls who don’t…
    If embarrassment is a barrier, that needs to be accepted and a self-testing option made freely available but that doesn’t negate choice…some women don’t want to screen, end of story. We’re individuals, not a herd to be manipulated and controlled…the attitude that says it’s okay to challenge or ridicule a woman who chooses not to screen needs to be tackled as well.
    Incredible that in 2017 they still promote screening as a must and in a flippant way, talking vaginas, doubt we’ll ever see a talking penis. It’s an insulting way to treat and view women.

  22. Elizabeth says:

    You have only to compare the pressure to have cervical and bowel screening, the latter is close to a yawn in comparison even though that cancer is far more likely. The medical profession and these programs are based on the idea that they know best, so just a Q of capturing us…amazing that view is still so strong.

  23. katrehman says:

    I just emailed Scottish health and told them what I thought and suggested a campaign for the men. Speech bubble from pic of anus belittling and telling them not to die of embarrassent but to have bowel scope screening!

    • adawells says:

      “We hope you will appreciate that the cervical screening programme continues to develop and improve as new evidence emerges.”

      If this test had been properly tested before it was made into a national programme, they would not be having to make corrections to a dodgy 1930’s test today. Plenty of old research papers refer to HPV being the cause of cervical cancer as far back as 1990’s. Action should have been taken in those days to put resources into HPV research and tests. Instead it has all been poured into maintaining screening programs to keep the Pap test on a pedestal.

  24. ChasUK says:

    I just looked up this https://www.jostrust.org.uk/about-us/annual-review-and-accounts – a lot f money made that does not go directly to any actual cancer research.

    https://www.jostrust.org.uk/about-us/finance/how-we-spend-our-money
    It is always about money and greed!

    • adawells says:

      I signed the petition for the tax on sanitary products to be removed, and was horrified to find this money was then being transferred to the coffers of Jo’s Trust.
      I’d like to see a full investigation into these charities. They spend a lot on “raising awareness” which often involves traveling the country speaking for 20 mins at events followed by a good deal of socialising- evening banquets, drinks, not to mention traveling costs and hotel bills. A lot of these people are exhibitionists who love to be seen in the media, but claiming they are only doing it to help others, and that their funny pink costumes are all to help people with cancer think that it’s all a cheeky fun circus. I saw a young mother complain on Twitter that she’d been criticized for appearing in a local newspaper about her “brush with cancer”. Turns out she only had an abnormal smear test once, but, not wanting to miss out on cervical cancer awareness week, had decided to contact the local newspaper and tell them about it. The press duly turned up with the cameras at her home and made a big story about it. From her tweets it seems she came in for some heavy criticism on social media, with people attacking her for being a fraud. “I only did it to help others, not for myself” she tweeted. Of course she did. The press makes lots of sales, and it’s a good awareness raising exercise for the charities. And the number of young women dying from cervical cancer hasn’t changed a bit since 1950’s.

      • katrehman says:

        Yes Ada I remember the TORY MP guffawing that women paid for their services like jos trust by having periods. We pay for the services that bully force and brainwash us into smear testing. …!! Grrrr

  25. Penelope says:

    Happy St.Patrick’s Day!

    I checked out that website, ChasUK. Yes, it’s about money and greed. In the U.S., charities are required to report how much of their funds go towards administration and how much go to the actual research and direct care of the beneficiaries of the charity. For example, the Muscular Dystropy association spends untold sums on research, camps, wheelchairs, braces. They report periodic breakthroughs which are very hopeful. I don’t see this for this charity. I do see support of something that is rare – and subtle scare tactics about symptoms…which are common to fibroids…or abnormal periods, for example, but not cancer. This charity put in painstaking detail about what money goes where – but, from what I see it’s administrative costs. That’s fancy for the people who run the charity. These people do work and then get paid. But no real money is put towards ending cervical cancer or new drugs or new methods to improve survival. If it’s there, then I missed reading everything else. I didn’t notice if they mentioned the rarity of it by the way. No, this is what I call a bleeding heart charity where they set up the site in Pepto Bismol pink, to emote a pretty, friendly, let’s be girlfriends feel. This is an effort to get people to take pity, get emotional, get worried and paraniod, and donate untold sums of money – into their pockets. It is indeed – a business venture for the owners of the charity. They offer no new hope or breakthroughs. At most it’s a club for those who think they have had it (if the diagnosis was correct)t or were scared by a diagnosis that – until further notice – turns out to be negative and need support. The truth about cervical cancer is optional on this site. it sure as heck doesn’t mention about our issues with paps and pelvics and alternative, non-invasive testing. No, it’s just following the status quo. I doubt that all of those women or those that know someone who was affected – where all truly diagnosed – likely a misdiagnosis from all that we have learned about this gyno profession. Abnormal cells are normal, but are misdiagnosed we know. Seeing how rare it is – and mostly not in the U.S. or U.K,, it’s unlikely that these are some of the only people to get it – and have managed to find each other.

    Thanks for the information. Be blessed.

  26. Elizabeth says:

    The so-called cancer charities tend to focus on screening and awareness, not treatments, cures or research. The pink ribbon juggernaut is a slick commercial campaign, but not sure it’s done much for women. You never hear them warning women about the risks of screening, or respecting choice…they seem to focus on fear, so-called survivors stories and raising money for more awareness campaigns.
    I’ve written to a few over the years and was shut down very quickly, zero interest in better screening options, the evidence, over-treatment etc.
    Most woukdn’t recognize the evidence if it bit them on the backside…or they choose to ignore it, their agenda, their survival and the strength of their voice and influence is all important.
    I always look behind these groups, how are they funded? What’s their focus?
    You’ll often find vested interests sitting on the Board watching over their commercial operations.
    Many have contributed to the dismissal of consent and informed consent and have not supported evidence based improvements, unless it sits well with their best interests.
    I tend to dismiss most of them…

  27. katrehman says:

    Hi ladies! Surprise I had a reply to the email I sent Scottish cervical screening about the flower ad in my email I commented on self testing if women were embarrassed instead of rubbishing them and telling them to stop fannying around and how about a talking anus for the men with don’t die of embarrassment get a sigmoidoscopy. Marketing manager Nicola Blackler replied
    Dear kat many thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback on the recent cervical screening campaign. I acknowledge your concerns about the approach used in the campaign. As is the case in england uptake of cervical screening is on the decline whilst the number of deaths from cc is increasing. Its the most common cancer iin young women and. Smear testing is the most effective way of preventing cc from developing. We completely appreciate the decision to be screened is a matter of personal choice and indeed our cc leaflet invitation lerter ect makes this perfectly clear however our research told us that many women don’t attend their smear test because they done wither understand the importance of it or barriers such as embarrassment get in the way. There was therefore a clear need to engage and educate women on the importance of having their smear test and address these significant barriers to attending so they’re more informed and able to make a personal choice when invited
    We needed a campaign that would stand out and grab young women’s attention especially in the digital context where competition for attention is high. We were of course aware of the need to do thus in the right way which was why we commissioned independent research with our target group women ages 25-35
    The flower route came out as the preferred route from testing.The campaign narrative strikes a balance between being scary and empowering (blergh!! Sorry kats comments) which our audience felt the subject needed. Women told UA the subject needed to make them feel uncomfortable and ensure an emotional reaction and reflect how they felt about a smear test itself as well as tacking significant existing barriers to attending
    Moreover the use of informal language resonates well and was engaging and provoked thinking and talking about the ad and issue. The campaign has been received well with strong positive fwedack across all social media platforms
    We do appreciate you taking the time to get in touch .Ultimately we have to be guides by customer insight and campaigns particularly bold ones may always be decisive and can never satisfy everyone. End of msg

    So she seems to be saying worn asked to be patronised and rubbished the way the ad did.and no mention of self testing??? Hmmmm

    • katrehman says:

      Please excuse typos. Still cant type on tablet. She did reply but I feel it’s same old. No mention of self testing and why don’t they have campaigns for the men? Would that ad really make you have a smear test? ??

    • adawells says:

      Thanks for posting this Kat. I’m going to write myself. There is no increase in deaths from cervical cancer, and they continue to fall. Would be interesting where she got this idea from…Jo’s Trust?

  28. adawells says:

    Let’s hope it has no effect.

  29. katrehman says:

    This is the email I sent and she’s ignored a few bits
    I realize I live in england and its nothing to do with me but I’ve just seen your latest attempt into scaring women into having a smear test. Stop fannying around and get tested. And a pic of a flower that morphs into a vagina. Is this really an acceptable and respectful way to address women? The advert makes no mention of informed consent and belittles women by the tone and assuming they don’t attend through embarrassment. If women are embarrassed it’s a big barrier . instead of belittling them why not simply roll out self testing as our Dutch counterparts have done?
    I don’t see any programmes belittling men… How about a picture of an anus with a speech bubble coming out saying don’t die of embarrassment get a sigmoidoscopy?
    Women have been mialws about cervical cancer for years. There will never be respect for informed consent as long as doctors have tarrgeta to hit. I officially opted out in 2015and have all but given up on visiting my doctor as all he’s interested in is my “flower!”

    • linda says:

      Great work Kat. The advert annoyed me as well. Even tho its for Scotland we saw it one night here in the North West. Its more or less saying women are too embarrassed. That’s old hat now. THEY KNOW WE ARE NOT EMBARRASSED. Its just another lie perpetuated by the screening elves.

      Linda x

  30. katrehman says:

    Daily fail 27 March femail. Woman live streamed her smear test to prove it’s not so awful after all if it persuaded even one woman to go it’s worth it zzzzzzzzz…..blergh!

    • Kate Orson says:

      ugh! I don’t think I could watch it! By the way, i have written a blog post describing my experiences after having a LEEP. Thanks to this website, and your book The Truth About Smear Tests, I am starting to have the courage to talk about this. This is the post https://healingfrommedicine.com/2017/03/

    • adawells says:

      It’s another tabloid fest. The channel they’ve broadcast it on is called heymummytv, a real chav channel, and it’s been covered by all the tabloids, including a magazine called LadBible, wtf that is! 😫

      They didn’t get a nurse to do it, they got a private gyno called Tyrone to take the smear.

      I’d send a link, but it’s just too revolting. Don’t go there…

    • Elizabeth says:

      Again, an irrational action, no one is filming their FOBT for bowel cancer and waving it triumphantly…in the hope others will do the same.
      Bowel cancer is more likely than cc…

  31. Allison says:

    Now, for me, this would be more terrifying than any horror movie ever made! I could just see all the perverts streaming in to watch. I’m sorry but I’m sticking with Stephen King, The Conjuring, and other horror films when I want to watch something that would frighten me!

  32. Allison says:

    When you’re a virgin in my situation, there is no convincing “it’s not awful” that you can do to make me give in. Maybe if you found me an attractive guy of my choice to have sex with first…. Nobody has ever been near that area of my body, and some sicko disgusting gyno exam is NOT the way I want to start.

  33. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    https://patient.info/forums/discuss/cervical-erosion-surgery-583818?utm_source=forum&utm_campaign=discussion-notification&utm_medium=email

    This girl is only 17 and facing a surgical procedure for cervical erosion – I know someone here had an early surgery for the same thing. Surely she should get a second opinion.
    She was told the Pill caused the erosion…
    If someone can give her some advice, please follow the link.
    Really worries me when a 17 year old is having something done to her cervix…horrible

  34. adawells says:

    http://www.rivm.nl/en/Topics/C/Cervical_cancer_screening_programme/Facts_and_figures

    A facts and figures page from the Dutch cervical screening programme. How does it compare with your country?

    The UK has nearly 4x the population of the Netherlands, so I multiplied the figures by 4 to see how the UK compares:

    Lives saved per year in NL=175, so in UK it should be 700, but we’re told our wonderful, successful programme saves 5,000 lives…

    Cost of cervical screening in NL= €35 million, so wonderful, successful UK cervical screening should cost €140 million, right? But, no, it costs an extra €35 million approximately, consuming over Β£175 million of NHS budget.

    • Kate (UK) says:

      Ah. But that’s just the cost of the initial screening, right? Admin costs, costs for the scrape and cytology, and GP incentive payments. And of courses since they’ve thrown HPV testing into the mix, I’m sure costs have risen.
      Add to that figure the costs of all those investigations, pathology, treatments, follow-ups, further medical intervention to deal with the damage caused by those treatments… the cost of ‘preventing cancer’ must be staggering. And in the meantime, people who are genuinely ill can’t get help when they need it!

      I have replied to the young woman facing surgery for an erosion. Let’s just say I was not polite towards the medics who led her into this. Disgusting that the NHS is trying to save money yet doctors are perfectly happy to butcher a young woman’s body over something completely harmless.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        Kate, thanks very much, I was worried…at that age it’s easy to be overwhelmed by doctors, and often teenagers and young women trust the medical profession, it’s telling that number falls as we get older and wiser!
        I hope your comment saves her from an unnecessary and bad experience, and as you pointed out, potentially damaging.
        Doctors are so quick to hack away at the cervix, that’s a large part of the problem, doctors viewing our bodies as disposable or disrespectfully.
        I’ve spoken to a few women over the years who’ve had hysterectomies after menopause or even earlier, “you don’t need that stuff anymore, you’ve had your kids, it’s just a potential site for cancer”….
        Umm, are we going to remove all potential sites for cancer or just look at the female body? Also, who says we don’t need the uterus, cervix and ovaries after menopause?
        My view: I value every piece of my body and I’ll protect it from those who don’t share my view of the female body.

      • Diane Spero says:

        i am with you. i protect my body from unnecessary teat and procedures.

      • Cat&Mouse says:

        Any woman considering giving consent to hysterectomy needs to view the various approaches or procedures on youtube. When they say how easy and how great recovery is via a vaginal approach…take a good look. You think you opened up for childbirth? Watch this. Have a pad positioned to catch your falling jaw. Get a second opinion. Note how enthusiastic these male doctors are in the OR! Note how roughly they handle your unconscious body.
        Also, check the “informed consent” for these facts before you sign.
        Post op minimum 25 pound weight gain. Depression.
        Sexual problems: They can either deliberately or depending on process shorten the vaginal length where it connects with the cervix. This prevents the vagina from stretching to accommodate a penis. The anterior fornix is positioned just in front or above the cervix. It is responsible for providing us the “full feeling” as we’re penetrated during sex. It also provides us another way to orgasm independent of the clitoris and g-spot. [while the clit, g-spot, and anterior fornix connect to the spine via lumbar and thoracic innervation, the vagus nerve goes straight to the brain. the vagus is yet another way to orgasm. when that occurs, a “fainting” feeling can result. often that’s stimulated via the posterior fornix…)
        Doctors are clueless to the sexual problems their “answer to all” surgery can cause. However they are well aware of the weight gain issues.
        Depression? If the doctor was ill-informed that a surgery would remove a bodily function he hated only to find out he couldn’t enjoy sex ever again…he’d too be depressed!
        We don’t have any information to consider before offering permission for a pelvic exam and pap scrape. The information offered to us before we sign our life’s qualities away for a hysterectomy is no better than the “bait and switch” from a used car dealer.
        Always, doctors whine when they’re sued how dumb patients are, that we don’t ask questions, that we don’t listen to them explain things…
        In reality, doctors leave their universities trained to sell their specialities, to be deceitful in every aspect of their practice, that lying is acceptable so long as they are the liars.
        Any woman who has undergone cervical brachytherapy for CC. They say that sexual problems due to scar tissue may occur. It’s a factual guarantee. (doctors cause divorce)
        When you wonder why doctors rarely have colonoscopies or other invasive embarrassing tests they force us into, you get a rare view of physicians being afraid of their own procedures.

      • adawells says:

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28374937

        Kate are you able to access this new article on PubMed? It’s researching the harm and distress caused by colposcopy procedures.

      • adawells says:

        I’m so sorry to read what you went through, Kate, and all for nothing. This wretched test has brought so many women into harm’s way. I found seeing a gyno at a busy teaching hospital distressing enough in middle age after having had 2 children. I cannot begin to imagine how I would have dealt with such an experience as a young woman.

  35. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    It’s interesting, Diane…
    I have a SIL who had a hysterectomy in her late 40s, she had fibroids.
    We know fibroids usually shrink after menopause AND they weren’t really a problem for her BUT . the male gynaecologist pushed her to have a hysterectomy, “you’ve had your 4 kids, you don’t need that stuff anymore, I’m sure you don’t want the bother of periods for potentially, the next 10 years, and as a bonus, you’re getting rid of sites that can cause problems, even cancer, uterine cancer is fairly common in older woman”…
    Obviously, that’s not a direct quote, but that’s how it was expressed to me by my SIL, it didn’t occur to her (until later) that she was signing up for unnecessary surgery. She said it now shocks her that it made sense to her at the time, have we been conditioned to view our bodies as disposable as well?
    She went through the surgery, a period of recovery but now thinks she probably should have waited. After it was all gone, she felt a deep sadness and wondered whether she’d given in too easily, whether she should have tried harder to keep her uterus, ovaries and uterus.
    I’ve read it’s quite common for women to grieve the loss of their uterus, ovaries and cervix.

    I don’t know if fewer hysterectomies are happening, they use less invasive techniques these days, does that mean it happens more often? I don’t know, I hope so…
    I know the statistics from the States were horrifying, 1 in 3 will have a hysterectomy before age 60, 1 in 3! Hardly surprising I suppose if you’re seeing a gynaecologist right through your asymptomatic life.
    I firmly believe we should value, respect and protect our bodies, and demand the same from our medical carers.

    • Diane Spero says:

      yes many unecsay hysterectomies are happening.

    • adawells says:

      I had my hysterectomy by keyhole surgery and was discharged home 24 hours later. Uterus, ovaries, cervix all gone, after I had kept them from harm all those years. Ovaries and cervix in perfect condition. As I’d got cancer, it was staged, and the level of surgery you get depends on the stage, and I don’t think I would have found a surgeon anywhere who would have left them in. It was done through the navel, like Kate describes above, and with 2 rods going in either side and then pulled out through the vagina. I am very sad about it all, but there is nothing to see now, and I think of those poor women who have had mastectomies and see their body mutilation every waking moment. That must be far worse. I am otherwise very well, but when I think back about how terrifying the ordeal was, and how flippant and careless staff were at the hospital (“all the women who come through here are only too glad to get one so why aren’t you?”), it brings me to tears.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        That attitude is a large part of the problem, that our reproductive system is a burden and disposable, we should be delighted to see the back of it.
        That may be the case for some women, but not for all women. Medical staff should be sensitive and understand for many women it’s a loss, never assume we’re delighted to be rid of our uterus, breasts etc.
        Our bodies are not disposable, our reproductive organs are not useless/superfluous after menopause, they should be valued and respected right through our lives.
        I don’t think the same attitudes apply when men are having their prostate gland removed, a colleague’s father was offered counseling to cope with the loss and aftermath.
        I can understand your feelings, Ada, I’d feel the same way.

      • adawells says:

        What annoys me the most is that I can no longer go on refusing to take part in the cervical screening programme! Would love to live to a ripe old age, and tell everyone that I didn’t have any smear tests. Perhaps then, and only then, will the brainwashed finally believe how unnecessary it has all been.
        Perhaps I will get to play that part when/if I reach 75 and have never had a mammogram?
        If I reach 100 and I’m asked how I did it, I’ll say I opted out of all that screening crap!

        Great video from Peter GΓΈetzsche. I like it that he says the women not screening are the educated ones, when our own screening authorities are saying it is the silly, the embarrassed and the ignorant who are not getting screened.

    • Cat&Mouse says:

      Verrry interesting… I’ve got a cousin who went down this same road…She is very attractive too…
      Her main issues were horrid periods and not being able to conceive. Besides being attractive and naturally blond, she’s particular about her appearance.
      The common denominator of her experiences was how male doctors behaved towards her.
      They couldn’t wait to perform exams. Given her issues, a pelvic exam was always “required” no matter how close together in weeks o/v were. The doctors were always impatient about performing these exams; as always the rectal part to “appreciate” the fibroids and “monitor their growth and number” (and) “rule-out potentially life threatening changes…” For her, the rectal part meant two fingers instead of one.
      It also meant she had to endure several very painful, invasive tests. She spent hours in the stirrups having fluids dripped or otherwise manipulated into her. Ultrasounds. Etc.
      Interestingly of course (I added this per my own sarcasm as we all know this happens)… She told me always after the intense physical exam every doctor practically needed restraining to keep them in the room.
      Collectively they showed little interest in the rest of the exam or o/v. Her history, continuing or new symptoms, what to do or plan, they acted as if bored and wanted to be elsewhere.
      She too ended up in the OR. Fibroids gone, uterus gone. Only they nearly killed her.
      They sutured her uretors closed. These are the tubes leading from each kidney to the bladder.
      These tubes were somehow caught up and sutured along with the normal internal fascia.
      She could not urinate and swelled up. Ended up in ICU. Took over a week to figure it out.
      More surgery; this time on an emergency basis.
      Lost months of work. She did survive however. She had to leave her job and eventually moved to a different state.

  36. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Obviously, I meant to say, I hope they’re doing fewer unnecessary hysterectomies these days.
    If more American women ditch the well-woman nonsense, hopefully, that will mean fewer unnecessary procedures, including hysterectomies.

  37. katrehman says:

    Great post Ada! And where the point is made PSA testing harms men! I’m very proud to say despite all the pressure to screen it’s 17 years since I last had a smear and I’m still alive and yes I refuse mammograms too!

    • adawells says:

      I think we should form a group of people called The Opt Outs, or something like that. So that women and men over the world can discuss their experience of living in a screening mad world. Perhaps a Facebook page? People certainly need to make contact and group together. Congratulations on your 17 years of freedom from the speculum! Long may it last!

  38. katrehman says:

    Thanks Ada and believe me it WILL last! Unless I have a problem down there I will not “invite” the NHS nd it’s speculum and brush to torture my bits!!

  39. CHASUK says:

    Currently reading this at the moment and worth a look IMO
    http://blogs.bmj.com/ebm/category/screening/
    Various screening trials etc. however, it will take time to get through but very interesting.

    • adawells says:

      Thanks for this link Chas, there’s some very interesting reading to be had here. I think Geoffrey Modest talks a lot of sense and manages to tie up a lot of technical medical stuff into every day language.

      It is good to see that he is aware of other European countries which are screening a lot less. It is all about how to wind down the programme, without anybody complaining. It is working backwards – medicine should be about only applying as little as is necessary to cure the problem, and treating only those who who need it. Here, this dreadful procedure has been forced on whole populations without justification, and they are working backwards in how they can reduce and withdraw it, without people realising they didn’t need it anyway.

  40. katrehman says:

    Both in daily fail and mirror today calls for hpv jab to be given to all boys as well as their hpv related cancers is set to outstrip cervical cancer related ones plus sexual health is the responsibility of both sexes….hmm. trying to drum up more gardasil business or….?

    • Alex says:

      Just looking to harm the kids, I guess. It seems Britain has an issue with the public & wants to do general harm however they can. Weapons laws, immigration, medical bullshit (I’d include school bullshit on the subject to count)- whatever comes to mind.

    • Cat&Mouse says:

      This is to try and cover the huge muslim male population coming of age. These men are being told to be sexually active with as many native Brit women as possible. Part of their jihad. Political correctness there prevents any direct criticism or health education as it may “offend” muslims everywhere. So the entire population must suffer.
      Similar to Brit police refusing to intervene five years ago when native Brit girls as young as 11 were being bullied into prostitution by muslim men.
      It begins when girls would go to a movie or friendly date with a muslim boy from school. Eventually some kind of sexual contact would occur. Then the girl would be blackmailed into sexual acts vs her parents being informed of her normal experimentation…
      Cops routinely called these victims “tarts” while ignoring the adult men acting as pimps.
      One family even moved to Spain trying to escape and protect their daughter.
      Muslim immigrants brag at refusing to work while drawing welfare. Not only for themselves but also for their “wives.”

    • adawells says:

      Kat, there’s definitely been a lot more demand for this to be given to boys, I’ve noticed it more and more. I’ve checked out the figures at CRUK: cervical cancer= 3,200 cases, head and neck cancers= 3,500 cases for women, but about 12,000 for men. Read somewhere that when women get it in the vagina, they build up immunity over the next couple of years, but when a man gets HPV virus in the mouth they can’t get immunity and is more likely to progress to cancer in this location. Seems the tonsils have more trouble dealing with the virus than a cervix, and seems the tonsils are the places it develops. The rates are set to rise over the foreseeable future so many people are calling for boys to be immunised as well as girls, in line with other countries. There’s also an anger that girls have been used as an infection break to the spread of HPV, and boys not. I think they are waking up to that now.

      • katrehman says:

        That’s interesting Ada…the humble tonsils! Let’s hope it’s not given to boys.or there could be many more cases of hpv vaccine damage…..

  41. CHASUK says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/91324416/Timaru-school-opts-out-of-vaccine-programme
    Timaru primary school Grantlea Downs has opted not to allow a vaccine against Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) to be administered on its grounds.
    South Canterbury District Health Board (SCDHB) chief executive Nigel Trainor raised the school’s stance towards the nationwide immunisation programme during a health board meeting on Friday.
    Trainor said the school’s board of trustees had made the decision not to allow the students to be vaccinated against HPV on site.

  42. Allison says:

    HELP ME! I’M SCARED! I have a women who is battling stage 3 cervical cancer harassing me on facebook about paps. She tells me to go and get one, that I could have CC right now even know it. I don’t want to die. 😒 But I’m a 25 year old virgin who never had sexual contact and want to wait until losing my virginity before having a pelvic exam. I’m tempted to hire a male prostitute to help me lose my virginity, the hottest one in town! Now, I’ll feel better about a pap since no pervy doctor will be playing with my virginal vagina; the hot prostitute got to be the first finger inside of me. I’d ask my male friends but I’m much too shy to bother.

    • Cat&Mouse says:

      Ignore this women. Ban her from accessing your Facebook page. That simple.
      Rely on science, not hype. A pap is only 53% accurate. I discovered this from the Trovagene site when I used their 93% urine based HPV test. I took my own sample at home in our bathroom. Likewise, the Delphi Screener is just as accurate…
      Do NOT pay a male prostitute to rupture your hymen.
      Your sexual organs are a gift from God.
      Get to know your own body. If need be, you can break your own hymen or go to a clinic to have it done as some women have a very thick hymen which requires medical intervention to break.
      If your friends don’t want to do it, don’t force them to.
      You will eventually find love, and a man or women who will want you, love you, respect you, and want to make love to you just for you being you.
      When this does happen, make sure your hands, and your partner’s hands as well, are clean as well as both of your sexual body parts.
      Make losing your virginity a blessed event. Something you will cherish. Don’t just do it for no other reason than doing it. Love yourself first.
      Also, when the time comes, prepare your body so your partner will be enthralled and excited. Practice good hygiene. Trim excess hair. Know how you like to experience orgasms. Learn, and understand how your body reacts, where your sensitive areas are, and what feels good.
      Most importantly, be ready to tell your partner what you like, and verbally coach him or her when you feel, on how or what they can do to take you to that special place of sexual bliss.
      You will find that when you work together, communicate well, problems can be resolved and pleasures can be maximized.
      An Easter prayer for you, for your lifelong love.
      My husband and I have been together 30 years, married 28+ of those years. I am his first and only.
      We coach each other, we work together, and we also go to each other’s doctor appointments. Especially him accompanying me to the gyn. What I’m telling you works.

      • Allison says:

        But none of this about finding love applies to me when I’m an aromantic. I’m not worried about finding love. I’m just very curious about sex and want to experience it. I’m sorry. I already broke my hymen by myself years ago. My problem is that I don’t want some doctor to be the first person to come into contact with my private parts. What also grosses me out as much as the pap test is a breast exam. I read that they are done without gloves and the thought of some doctor touching my breasts with their bare hands, when nobody else has ever touched them, actually makes me physically ill.

    • Alex says:

      Just block her. Tell her you’ve heard weed is good for cancer AND calming the fuck down (she’s seriously harassing someone on Facebook about this?). If you want to be a bit more vicious about it, tell her to hurry up & die!

      This woman’s playing “you can never know” games & it’s weighing on your resolve to not get a high-risk, low-utility, invasive (by general language terms- medical people tend to think that means surgery) test.

      I’m not trying to be arrogant or yell at you, but I thought I had posted a thing to you on something similar. If not or you can’t find it, I have no problem telling you the same things again (which you might find helpful, at the very least, as arguments).

    • Evie says:

      I’m assuming that you can’t block this woman for some reason. In that case, tell her that she convinced you to get a pap, you had one, and the doctor told you you were fine. Thank her for caring about your health and convincing you to get a pap. This is the only thing that will shut her up.

    • Evie says:

      Also, I’m really curious how this woman could know that you haven’t had a pap. Is this something you share on your Facebook page? If so, and if you don’t want to be harassed about it, you should stop sharing this information with everyone. If anyone specifically asks you about it, you can always say it’s private information and concerns only you and your doctor. Or you can say that you have regular exams and that your doctor says you’re fine–whatever you prefer. But you don’t have to explain yourself and justify your decision not to have a pelvic exam before you have sex to anyone.

    • Kate (UK) says:

      How do you know she really has cancer? Many women undergo treatment for ‘abnormal’ cells and actually believe (because doctors lie to us) they have cancer and have been ‘saved’ by the almighty pap.
      Second, pap tests are supposed to ‘prevent’ cancer by finding cells which could potentially become cancerous. If paps are so great and this woman has been having them regularly, how come she still got cancer anyway? If she has got genuine cancer, that is.
      Third, there is more than one type of cervical cancer, and the type which develops in very young women like you is a) very rare and b) almost impossible to detect with a pap. So testing at your age is unlikely to do you any good, but you face a high risk of having unnecessary tests and procedures which can seriously damage your mental and physical health.

      If you value your virginity so much, hold on to it until you meet someone you truly care for.
      This idea that a woman needs regular pelvic exams to stay healthy is a filthy lie created by the greedy perverts who get a thrill and make lots of money by conducting these ‘exams’. There are plenty of other countries in the world where women manage to survive into a ripe old age without having doctors shoving their grubby fingers into our vaginas on a regular basis. You don’t need this.

      I’m with Alex on this one – I’d be brutal and tell her exactly where she can shove her ‘advice’.

      • Allison says:

        I wasn’t exactly posting any personal information about not having paps. This was in the comments on a news article about trying to make the birth control pill over the counter. I made a comment about how this would be a great thing, because of how traumatic these exams can be for some women, I gave some links to articles about why a pelvic exam/pap smear is unnecessary for the pill. I then got a handful of women commenting about how their doctors use their birth control as black mail to give into an exam; Also sharing traumatic experiences. This women then is attacking me personally for starting this. Yes, it is my fault for even saying this.

        Also, I don’t value my virginity and the whole waiting for somebody special thing really doesn’t work for me. I’ll probably never want a boyfriend or husband, but I still badly want to experience sex. I just want more of a friend with benefits thing. Hell, I’d be happy to only have sex once or twice. If anything, I feel unwavering hatred towards my virginity. I feel intense sexual frustration to the point I get depressed if I think about it too long. When I’m feeling this horrible, the last thing I want is some doctor jabbing at me down there.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        It’s up to the individual, but I think women, men, doctors, everyone really, needs to hear that some women choose not to have cancer screening and far from reckless behaviour (as we’re led to believe) it’s actually often a well researched and considered position.
        Of course, we’re free to just say NO…
        One of the principles of population screening is that the test must be acceptable, well, this test is UNACCEPTABLE to many women, end of story. We’ve been told it must or should be acceptable, wrong!
        So I’ve shocked quite a few by saying I’ve never had a Pap test, and never will, inevitably I get the comment, “so how do you know you haven’t got cancer at this very moment?”..
        How do they know they haven’t got lung or pancreatic cancer?
        If a screening test does not pass my risk v benefit test (based on the evidence) I’ll pass, these tests always expose us to risk and can reduce our quality of life – they can even lead to an early death. Screening tests should never be taken because others think it’s a great idea, it should always be an informed decision.
        It should be a scandal that informed consent and consent itself are largely missing from women’s cancer screening. It says to be there has been a lot of unethical and possibly, illegal testing going on…you can’t consent when you’re coerced, pressured, misled etc.

      • Alex says:

        See, even though these tests are frequently inaccurate or otherwise dangerous, I think that it’s better for the patient to be able to force a doctor on that level than to not have that degree of control.

        There was a scene in Doctor Strange that illustrated this point pretty well- Steven Strange got into a car crash, his hands were wrecked, and there was this surgeon who wouldn’t do the surgery on them that Steven wanted him to do because of the possible risk to his reputation (it seemed that the deciding factor was his record). Now, it might have worked, but there wasn’t a medical override to coerce him into doing it. The movie had Steven find a new path & he could actually fix his hands at that point (it seems), but a more real story would have been different.

  43. Cat&Mouse says:

    Last year I announced that CA law changed, allowing The Pill to be dispensed by a pharmacist w/o doctor’s prescription. Women have told me that so far this isn’t so. I checked WalMart and CVS pharmacies. Both told me that until “protocols” are developed, neither will be participating. They would not say what was causing the delays.
    Here we go again. Another bait and switch.
    A girlfriend of mine refuses to believe what we discuss. Her daughter had abnormal paps. I tried to educate her in every way possible. Finally I just declared that if her daughter “followed her doctor’s advice” that within a year a hysterectomy would occur.
    Nine months later, following two LEEP’s, the 25 yr old daughter (mother of one boy) underwent a hysterectomy.
    Ignorance is a terminal disease.

  44. Penelope says:

    Hi Everyone:

    Happy Easter to those who celebrate.

    To all the new women and teenagers who are new to posting here – here’s my belated welcome to the site. I would love to answer as many posts as possible, for I want to share with you. However,I haven’t had time to check our site as I’d like. Hopefully you have been reading all of the current and the thousands of previous posts – hopefully including mine – to help you when the veteran’s of our site aren’t able to respond as quickly as well. Somewhere in our posts we have your answers; just keep reading; keep hoping. This is indeed a unique site; the more I view the internet and periodicals, the more I realize that we’re truly saved; we’re warriors for this scourge that is gradually coming to an end; change has been slow, but consistent. The one thing I notice by the media is that male gynecologists aren’t popular. Mostly, there are women gyn’s more in the media – I guess to soften the blow. More and more women have become gyn’s, but they have to stop trying to impress the old boys network and start making change towards respecting women, telling them the truth, stop putting profits before the patients well-being and psychological damage, and change things – starting with required informed consent and providing (not just offering) self testing kits.Remember, it’s your body. STOP believing this nonsense about it being required to get pelvics and paps. Check the World Health Organization’s information. Cervical cancer is extremely rare in developed countries – especially the U.S., U.K, and Australia.

    Cat&Mouse: That was excellent research on Hysterectomies. (for a previous post – I wouldn’t have instructed that young woman to have her friends break her hymen though – sets her up for rape. Having a professional do it defeats her purpose of staying away from perverted doctors…)

    The hysterectomy was primarily an operation started with a cut much like a c-section cut. NOT through the vagina….However, the perverted males figured women would be vain and not want a scar, so they hype getting it through the vagina. And they went for it. And you’ve so eloquently explained that there’s so much more to just not having an abdominal scar. I hope women are suing the pants off these male gyns. I also believe this is why we have all these non-consentual pelvics on anesthetized women (If I start on IVF, my post will be too long). Dogs, they are.

    You made me curious. I looked up Cervical Brachytherapy. In a word – disgusting. The perverted male gyn’s at the top of ACOG think of so many things and devices and reasons and ways to have women in stirrups, playing with their vaginas, that I stopped counting. (their way of playing God since they can’t be cardiologists and heart surgeons…they are real doctors….), Google has pictures by the way of women who were under anesthesia and had no idea they were being filmed in stirrups with objects hanging out- with a male in between their legs. , recently a new procedure for males for prostate cancer, I believe, was abandoned because – wait for it – the MALE SUBJECTS WERE UNCOMFORTABLE. Sooooo, women MUST have pelvics and bimanuals and transvaginals and every unproven thing that these bastards come up with – and men – oh – they are just advised to talk to their doctor about what’s right for them. Very very angering.WHEN will women WAKE UP. The ladies on this site have expressed painfully about being harrassed for a pelvic; The internet sites STILL promote pelvics as if – like Linda or one of veterans said – we are diseased women who are ticking time bombs and getting a pelvic saves lives. Alot are ignoring that ACOG actually said to scale it back to 3-5 years, and such. I think not too many women have heard of WHO. No, for men – it’s just “talk to your doctor about what’s right for you……..” Terrible.

    Let us then, who have found this site and know the truth be blessed; praying for all women to come to the light.

  45. adawells says:

    “To address this public health challenge we need to look at new ways for people to test and self-testing is an important and welcome additional option.”

    https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/27/hiv-self-testing-kit-on-sale-uk-biosure

    I thought I would share this article from 2 years ago about HIV self-testing and how it has been welcomed, compared to women being able to self test for HPV.
    HPV self-tests still not recognised as an option in the UK, not promoted, and companies discredited for claiming it is an alternative to smear tests. They claim “research” that offering self-testing increased uptake very little, and that women might be too afraid to seek medical help in the event of a positive result, and that women wouldn’t feel confident in the result compared to the “assurance” of having a nurse/doctor take the smear. Funny how one STI self-test is welcomed with open arms, and the other (for women) is suppressed, and every excuse found to prevent it being used.

    • katrehman says:

      Good one ada. I’m sure the reason uptake is so low is because women don’t WANT a health worker delving up their vagina!

    • Alex says:

      What do they mean “protocols”? The buyer gives money to the worker & the worker gives the desired product. I’m betting if they had a gun in their back they’d do as directed quite quickly. I never understood the ABSOLUTE unwillingness to force something like that- it’s like there’s some kind of functionally religious belief that “their” property should be safe & they should have full discretion over it. FUCK THAT!

      Just to make a point: If someone owns a machete, they don’t just swing it who & what they please- same for coercive probing through resource deprivation. I don’t think it’s important how long they went to med school, obviously it didn’t work well enough (since they are acting this way) & the fact that they are drawing a paycheck that could be used for something else is appalling.

    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      Oh, yes, the old double standard is alive and well in women’s cancer screening. They’re always quick to tell us why we shouldn’t have/use a better or another option, always quick to tell us what’s best for us, tell us how we feel or should feel, all the assumptions. Incredible they can’t see how grossly inappropriate and insulting that is, very 1958

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s