Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.

3,229 comments

  1. Hi ladies,
    Yet another gp has been convicted of sexual misconduct
    Dr Krishna Singh, has been found guilty of 54 offences against 48 women and girls in the age group of between 14and 66 over a period of 35 years, which is absolutely horrendous but the most sickening aspect of this is the fact that he was also a police examiner and when a women went to the police after being raped he subjected her to a further assault, his sentence is to be announced next month, I think we ought to run a parallel site where we push for the reintroduction of corporal punishment and then we could watch this bastard swinging on the end of a rope, I simply can’t describe how furious I was after reading about this, why in this day and age are men still involved in female healthcare.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks Jules.

      I think the horrendous thing is how long the offending went on for. I’m sure he was reported very early on by women, and their complaints must have been silenced or ignored.

      I’m going through a horrendous situation myself where I’m being harassed and stalked to the point of considering suicide, and the police won’t believe a word I say.

      I even had a detective tell me I was crazy and needed counselling.

      The last time I went to a police station begging for help, they told me to go away and get lost.

      The last two times I actually called police for help, they never arrived and I had a mental health nurse calling me instead of police assistance.

      I wish I had been born in a time when women are believed and listened to. 😦

  2. Hi Oz,
    When myself and Annette were younger and living at home mom told us a story about an aunt of ours (she’s dead now ) who was plagued by someone who kept making obscene phone calls which went on for months in desperation she told her mom and she took her advice, when the next call came off this guy instead of putting the phone down she said unless you’ve got ten inches and a Mercedes I’m not really interested, that was the last time he called. Her mom was seventy at the time and very prim and proper so we both found this hilarious.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks for the advice Jules, I’ll keep hoping the Police get off their butts and help, but after being abused for so long, I doubt it.

  3. Hi oz,
    I can’t imagine just how unnerving it must be having a stalker, when I was at uni an ex police woman used to come to give self defence classes in one of the communal rooms for any girl who felt the need for it, there are measures that you can take to protect yourself if nobody else will, one that stayed with me is always be aware of your surroundings and if you are walking alone at night is to always hold your keys in the palm of your hand with the longest sticking out between two fingers and keep your hand in your pocket if you are attacked jab the person in the eyes with the key making as much noise as you can. I don’t know about the gun laws in Australia you could always take that route if it was legal, nothing more off putting for a stalker than looking down the barrel of of gun held by your victim.
    Hugs Jules x.

  4. Hi everyone,
    I hope you all had a good Easter, it feels like ages since I last posted on here but work wise its been manic. Quick question for you all, have any of you had a private health assessment? I have been offered one through my Husbands work as he gets high level private medical care and he has added me to it. This isn’t the sort of health check that I would normally consider as most of the tests are covered in the annual CAA medical I have to have for work but being a bit of a gym addict and the fact that the BUPA one offers a full ECG while your pedalling like mad under load on an exercise bike and I am interested in seeing how fit I really am.
    You get the usual health checks as part of a 45 minute consultation at the end with a GP and my husband was offered (and declined) a testicles check, I will be offered “if clinically indicated” a breast exam, pelvic exam, cervical smear, and high vaginal swab. Needless to say I will be declining them and it will be interesting to see how push the GP is. Just wondered if anyone else on here has had one and if it was a positive experience or not..

    Jess.

    • My neighbours have private health insurance as husband got Hodgkin’s Lymphoma about 20 years ago. He’s still going strong. She told me that she accompanied him to his appointments and was approached by some doctor there for a smear test. To this day she regrets agreeing to it as one wasn’t due and it was purely for his own gratification. She told me she felt pressure was put on her, like it may affect her husband’s treatment, and be part of a package, so felt compelled to go along with it. We must have been in our 30’s about this time and the pressure to test was relentless, and there was no social media to find out otherwise. Their NHS GP had failed to diagnose the lymphoma for a long time as he thought her husband was too young for it, so they genuinely feared being put back on this NHS GPs books again and were grateful his company offered private healthcare. She told me she was reluctant to upset the boat in any way and reluctantly went along with the smear test to ensure her husband had the best care. It was disgusting the way they treated women in those days, and I’d hope that’s not the case now, but I’d want to know if refusing these screening tests might in any way affect your care with BUPA.

      • Hi Adawells,
        I will let you know how it goes, i would be shocked if refusing to have a smear test would affect my BUPA care but stranger things have happened (although if I was in the USA I would expect to be coerced into having this during the visit. I will have my assertive pilots head on when I go 🙂

        Jess

      • Hi Adawells,
        It’s a sad situation that somebody felt compelled to undergo
        an unwanted procedure for thinking that it may have consequences that would affect the treatment of someone else near to them , women should have a well rehearsed response to this line of attack by saying that it’s the wrong time of the month or there is a probability of pregnancy or you’ve had a hysterectomy, a rehearsed answer may defend against unwanted attention.
        Hugs Jules x.

  5. Hi Everyone,
    Further to my post last week I still havent got round to booking my health assesment yet. In the meantime this came up on my twitter feed a few days ago. This poor deluded girl seems to have convinced herself that she needed a smear test when she was a virgin. Not only that she has the wrong information:

    https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/smear-test-as-a-virgin

    It looks like it was peer pressure that coerced her into having this vile procedure carried out.

    Jess

    • That story is fake news equal to the Steel Dossier.
      It’s watered down every concern one could have.
      It automatically dismisses any protests, and it humiliates every woman who’s experienced trauma during of these medically condoned rapes.

    • As a person who had this test done when i was a virgin, why? What about False positives, and some doctors may actually biopsy the cervix. poor people are misinformed! mistake honestly.. ugh.

  6. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/real-lives/woman-no-symptoms-given-devastating-23958350

    Still peddling these stories, and seems like they’re getting desperate to find anybody with abnormal cells these days. Sounds like this lady had CIN3 and the “pre-cancerous” cells removed, but she’s calling it cervical cancer with real tumours. However, the colposcopy seems to have miraculously cured her of her “cancer” and she’s now in the clear, with 6 monthly check-ups. With real cancer you’d be in for surgery within the next 2 months. About time they got these stories straight and gave women honest information about this lousy test.

    • *sigh* There have always been thousands of these phoney “cancer survivors” who say they’d be dead had they not found it and cured it when they did, encouraging everyone to have more and more cancer tests. What’s really happening is these are victims of overdiagnosis and overtreatment – they are now cancer-free because they never had cancer – they just had a cancer scare and the ensuing hysteria.

      • Well said Beth, most of these people who have had their lives “saved by a smear” never had cancer in the first place.

        Jess

    • What a hilarious article. Woman has pap, woman gets results that she doesn’t understand and isn’t willing to share for the sake of a published article, woman gets colposcopy and bam, cured of cancer.

      That’s not how any of it works, but it seems to be enough to slap on the internet for all of eternity and use to frighten a few women into getting a pap they might’ve been putting off.

      What’s the real deal behind this article? Did this woman really approach a sketchy looking news outlet in the hopes of sharing her weirdass story? Or was she approached? What on earth is going on here… it’d be straight up funny if it weren’t so frustrating. Gotta rely on ignorance to keep those pap numbers up and quotas met!

  7. Same old same, unfortunately…
    From QnA on
    http://www.contemporaryobgyn.net/view/hpv-answering-your-worried-patientss-questions

    Women’s Question, asked by women who tested positive for HPV:
    “Should my partner be examined?”

    Medical answer:
    The only time you need to examine an HPV-infected patient’s male sexual partner is if he reports clinically visible lesions, such as penile or anal warts. Examination at high magnification with 3% to 5% acetic acid solution often leads to overdiagnosing and overtreating benign HPV-unrelated penile skin conditions with potentially disastrous adverse events.

    So, men, regardless of their HPV status should be spared any tests, discomfort, pain, or -forbid- consequences! They can keep having fun and infecting other women.

    At the same time, it is perfectly acceptable -and relentlessly advised by the medical system- to torture women with scary cancer stories, shove speculums inside their vaginas, scrape their cervixes with abrasive brushes and spatulas, tear off whole chunks of living cervix tissues for biopsies, and cut and burn off huge pieces of cervixes as a “treatment”.

    Perfect equality between genders. Medical business as usual.

    • If you can, find a Youtube video of this test being performed. I’ve looked with no luck. It’s talked about though; which means without actual video of it being done should raise red flags. That’s a sign I always look for. If a demonstration of a procedure is honest, then we’ll see pain etc moderated.
      This test involves inserting a cotton swab inside the urethra. I don’t know how far it gets inserted. Then it’s twisted to remove cells.
      My husband cannot imagine how painful that would be. Especially if there’s a lesion.
      If they wanted, local anesthesia could be injected at base of penis. But that’s an extra procedure and time. And we know how providers are when they have to mediate pain.
      Otherwise you’re absolutely right. The male could have a weaker immune system and never throw the virus. While continuing to infect.
      That’s why we need friendlier, more accurate tests.
      And we know how the medical power nazis be feel about that.

      • Yes, of course we need less painful and more accessible HPV tests, for both genders. What I was pointing out is that painful procedures for men get much more consideration than for women.

        There also should be an option to have an HPV test anonymously. So that a woman, if she wishes, could check her HPV status without having her personal data recorded in various screening databases and medical surveillance registers, and being harassed by countless recalls and reminders.

        Regarding HPV and vinegar solution, HPV doesn’t have a cell. No viruses do. That’s why all viruses have to invade host cells and use the resources and mechanisms of those cells for self-replication. And that’s why DNA changes in the cell instigated by the virus may eventually lead to cancer: because the cell replication mechanism, altered by the virus, no longer works in the interests of the host body. It begins to work in the interests of the virus that “wants” only two things – to spread and to multiply. And that’s exactly what cancer is: uncontrolled, excessive and potentially infinitive multiplication and spread.

        Yes, the vinegar solution can (possibly) damage the cell to the point that its mechanisms can no longer work for the virus. But at the concentration of 3-5% it would only happen to topmost cells, if at all. The virus would most likely survive in the cells underneath anyway. And using a more concentrated solution would be too harmful for the healthy cells, without any proved benefit. So, vinegar is definitely not the cure.

        Luckily, our bodies already have a perfectly designed protection and cure mechanism. It is called the immune system. When functioning properly and not stressed by external factors (including cancer screening and medical scaremongering), it can (and does) efficiently detect and destroy all precancerous and cancerous cells in the body. That’s why most cervical abnormalities go away without any treatment. And when the medical system claims that its screening and treatment program “saved lives”, all it does in most cases is detecting and unnecessarily over-treating the lesions that would have healed on their own anyway. And in doing that, it is causing the affected women enormous amount of stress and pain along the way.

        It is important to remember that our bodies produce various mutated and cancerous cells every day, and our immune system deals perfectly well with the vast majority of them. It’s only when something suddenly causes an excessive number of abnormal cells (such as having sex with an HPV-infected man) and/or has weakened the immune system (such as stress, or smoking, or unhealthy lifestyle), it misses some damaged cell somewhere, which may occasionally turn into cancer later.

    • Question if anyone can help me.
      Doesn’t the 3-5% vinegar solution kill the HPV cells?
      They absorb it differently as it causes them to illuminate under a proper light wavelength.

    • This is where my last gyno failed me, “oh you have HPV Positive results, so you have a chance of developing cervical cancer. He was trying to scare me with the oh you have cancer tactics, when it could not be the case at all. Also my partner had that test done before, he said it was painful. but you know, if it is painful for males, think of us females, super painful with the speculum.

      • How far was the swab pushed down his urethra? How long did it take? Draw blood?

  8. Seem to remember reading somewhere that free HIV tests are available from various machines in clubs and maybe gyms in the UK. They trust people to turn up for treatment if they get a positive result, and I understand that this system is working well. I don’t see why they can’t make HPV swab tests similarly available for people to try. Cut out the screening and provide people with self-test kits if they want it. I strongly suspect it’s got a lot to do with men being trusted and women being treated as imbeciles who need their bodies policed by the gynos.

  9. Nena, that’s such a fair point about biopsies!

    It is incomprehensible that we live in a society that flew to Mars, built the Internet, invented smartphones, and yet is perfectly content with continuing using medieval torture methods in women’s healthcare.

    It is unbelievable that cervix-puncturing tenaculum is still used for holding the cervix in place, and that cervical biopsy forceps are still used for taking samples!

    The modern medicine thinks it’s perfectly fine to sink the claws of those forceps into the cervix tissue, then close them and tear off a huge chunk of meat off the woman’s cervix, usually without any anaesthetic, calling the procedure “a slight discomfort”. What’s most unforgivable is that this barbaric procedure tears off a chink of the underlying cervical stoma with muscles, nerves and blood vessels, which causes a lot of pain and an extensive damage to the cervix, but is absolutely not needed for the purpose of the biopsy and is discarded later in the laboratory, because the histology analysis requires only the thin layer at the top – epithelium.

    And this butchery continues because it is cheaper for the system, and because it is faster and more convenient for the medical profession to keep torturing women like that. By keeping the status quo, they don’t need to rewrite the manuals, don’t need to learn anything new, don’t need to undergo any new training for much more humane methods like strip biopsy. Medical business as usual, indeed!

    • I have been away working for a few days and only just seen this discussion. Working for an airline when we are away on a long haul I often get chatting to the cabin crew when we are checked into the hotel. A number of male cabin crew have had the urethral swab and say it only goes in about 5mm but is incredible painful. Its like a small cotton bud going in without any KY that is then rotated and pulled out. It apparently takes about 3 seconds. The only way a local anaestetic woud work is if it was injected into the head of the penis which I am told would be even more painful. One of the guys said there was a series on channel 4 called sex clinic and it was shown on there and the guy screamed.

      Jess

      • That guy is correct. There are couples whom the male will use a very small and rounded eyedropper to install THC drops inside his urethra. The idea is to be erect, then sort of hold the phallus while the eyedropper goes just beyond the grip. Then the liquid is pushed in, while pressure is held on the bulb so it doesn’t suck out or leak. The endgame is to have wicked sex while hovering on the precipice of a huge orgasm.
        Literally the same is done to dispense lidocaine gel into the male urethra. This is done prior to catheterization and some other procedures.
        The lidocaine would sting some; but I don’t know how much. Similar but weather formulations are used in ejaculation delaying products which are topically applied. I don’t know if those effect women; never encountered them.
        The problem in obtaining a STI specimen is that saline or lido on the q-tip would compromise obtaining a valid sample. As we know that story…
        You’ve heard me talk about the long ago discontinued Trovagene Urine Based HPV test.
        This product was perfect for HPV testing. As urine based, no pain, no muss, no fuss.
        With PCR tech and antibody capture, 93% accuracy.
        Easy to imagine how that would be a game changer.

  10. So i actually have an update regarding me: i finally went to a new PCP, who is very friendly and helpful. got labwork done with my thyroid and it’s all wonky. What’s interesting is that i don’t feel weird at all, and always get accused of not taking my medicine. Which okay may seem that way, but i’ve been taking it every day at 5:00AM. Anyways, told my doctor this and she was nice about it thank god. I scheduled an annual exam for January of next year. My only issue is that i don’t want a pap smear like at all. I did tell the doctor’s assistant who made a note on my chart. because i explained that it hurt me and bla bla bla. but how can i deny an exam that i don’t want?

    • Hi Sunflowergal22, if you dont want a smear test tell the Dr at the time. If he/she wont take no for an answer tell him/her that if they force this on you you will report them to the police for sexual assault.

      Jess

    • Just say no. If they push for a reason, tell them that saying no is sufficient, or you will report them for harassment.

  11. I have been doing a bit of introspection. Some doctors that I have been to in the past have been respectful and takes a straight no for an answer.

    There was one who waited for me to give a reason before going out of the room to ask the nurse something. To this day, I have not found out why.

    They don’t need a reason from you. Just say no, I have made my decision of sound mind. If they do hear a reason, they will argue with you to wear you down until you cannot reasonably refuse. That’s coercion.

    I have finally worked out why I was disturbed. I have received a response from the HCCC but they made it sound like there was no reason for me to be upset.

    • Thanks for the help! i suppose i am just scared because some may not want no for an answer. but i know what is good for my body. My issue is that i have been disrupted so many times in the past by what i want to put in my body and whatnot.

  12. Hi ladies,
    Sorry I haven’t been around for a while, but I’ve been insanely busy. I’ve seen a couple of unfamiliar names posting, it’s great that you’ve found your way here and welcome. It’s just been reported on the BBC news that after investigations into the cervical screening exam that a five yearly interval with the hpv test is adequate for cancer detection. I’ve got a feeling there may be an “announcement” soon, so expect outrage from the screenaholic brigade personally I can’t wait for the sh!! to hit the fan, they may have to reveal some truths to smooth things over with these morons.
    Hugs Jules x.

  13. Uk ladies, for anyone fed up with the Jubilee, BBC2 tonight 9pm making sense of cancer
    Professor of Maths Hannah Fry diagnosed with cervical cancer at aged 36 “investigates the way we diagnose and treat cancer by examining statistics “

  14. Hi ladies,
    News about one of my previous posts, Dr Krishna Singh was found guilty of all but one charge at court of sexual misconduct over a period of 35 years against 47 females including two underage girls , one lady who was pregnant, and a rape victim who was abused during her rape exam, this animal was described in court of being of previous good character and the recipient of an MBE for his “services to the medical profession ” Who the fu!! are they trying to kid, his sentence 12 years is nowhere near enough for the emotional damage and anguish he’s caused
    he should have been nailed to the floor , dowsed in petrol and set alight.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • That’s so pathetic. What a non-story that is. Says “up to 100” in the article, and we know that only about 1 in 100 women is at risk. These local rags are always promoting these “tragic” tales of doom, but every year thousands of young people commit suicide because children’s mental health services are so underfunded, but you can walk in and get a smear test anytime. Makes me sick the amount of money that’s thrown at this rubbish.

      Meanwhile, downunder, HPV self-testing will be available to all after July 1st:
      https://www.health.qld.gov.au/public-health/cancer-screening/cervical/self-collection

      • Thats brilliant but can you imaging the furore if 100% self testing was introduced here in the UK? It would free up practice nurses to do proper work, think of the poor agressive receptionist who would no longer be able to coerce you to come in for screening, it would even free up time in GP surgeries to do other more relevant treatments and ease the workload……

        Jess

      • This was recently tweeted by @TomPMarshall a researcher in Public Health who I follow. Often says wise words about screening.

        “The UK cervical screening programme faces an interesting dilemma. The cohort of HPV-vaccinated women are at half the risk of an earlier generation, changing the cost-benefit ratio.
        But screening programmes are institutions & their primary function is to maintain their existence”.

        There are quite a few in the public health sector who know it’s a big waste of money, and yet there are the afficionados who are raking in so much money for these pathetic research projects, where other countries have already moved on. Not to mention the GPs and their incentive payments.

        We’re dealing with the last very elderly relations in the family now and it is appalling the lack of care elderly people actually get. Discharged from hospital with no care plans/support in place, family members at their wits end caring for very disabled relatives. These smear test nurses need putting back into the community to act as district nurses and caring for those most in need, yet families are forced to pay for all of this privately.

        Makes my blood boil. And we have yet another cervical screening awareness week coming up on 20th June.

      • that’s great! This should be available to everyone, including other countries. There’s even a self test on NURX but, sadly it isn’t available in my state yet. And yeah it’s sad that mental health isn’t as important for professionals. it should be– i always said things can get better with time, but as a person who considered mental health issues, mental health should be available to all. it’s sad that we can ruin our bodies for free, but to talk to a therapist, we need to pay. crazy.

  15. Hi adawells,
    Another awareness campaign on the 20th can’t wait ,I find them a great source of amusement these days I’m just wondering if they can manage to come up with any new slant on the topic or if it will be the same old drivel they have been promoting for the last 30 years, I’m not going to hold my breath, probably just more of the same old same old, some people just don’t learn, but then again with more than 1 in 3 women not bothering with paps maybe some do.
    Hugs Jules x.

  16. Hi ladies,
    You will be pleased to hear that we can all relax, on the BBC news today they announced that an ambassador for women’s healthcare has been appointed
    Dame Lesley Regan she is leading a campaign called women’s health strategy and she wants to introduce “health hubs” where women can go to access all female health needs such as HRT, contraception , at home abortion pills and of course the good old smear test, thought it was too good to be true , but what can you expect from a prof of obstetrics and gynaecology from the imperial college London, she’s just going to enforce the age old propaganda they all do and any other person with a different view must be an idiot, sounds to me like if you did go with a problem it would just be another chance for them to try and get you to submit to their demands.
    Hugs Jules x./

    • Wait until men begin lining up for abortions and scrape tests.
      Ahh socialized medical care.
      Getting what you pay for.

  17. Daily Express today UK ladies, David Tennants wife Georgia fuelling the cervical hysteria raising awareness of her story and how vital smears are. She said borderline changes had her planning her funeral and eventually she had CIN 2 which we all know can reverse itself… groan!
    On another note I’m relocating in 2 weeks from SE England to nearer my adult daughter in Wales, and I’m already thinking about if my as yet unknown new doctor will hound me to have smears and mammograms! The answer will still be NO!

  18. Perhaps Ms Tennant should read the Daily Fail who carry a story of a woman who’s cervical cancer returned. Said woman ditched her 16 hour long workdays became a vegan sex therapist and inserts cannabis into her vagina every day…..

  19. Hey everyone! Hope all is well. I just wanted to say how proud i am of myself for well standing up to my experiences. A year ago, i made the firm decision to review all my doctors that i’ve been to, i started with yelp, but put some on healthgrades as well.. i wrote honest reviews detailing my bad experiences at the doctors that i’ve been to. This includes all gyno exams and doctors that i’ve been to. But even though i written those reviews, i still feel feelings of trauma. Does anyone else feel this way at all? Like i wish i could just tell my past self– don’t worry about these exams and insert the knowledge i have right now. Like i know today to say no, i don’t want this but wish i was that brave in the past. wish i didn’t have no pelvic exams and that inaccurate pap test. i only had it 3 times but, 3 times too many. like it’s sickening that some perform that test on virgins, and perform it no matter what on people who don’t want it. like even being not listening to has made me distrust all doctors not just gynos.

    • Well done! I did the same – reviewed all my past doctors on HealthGrades, Vitals, etc., and detailed how many unnecessary pelvic exams they performed and colposcopies they referred me for (I only attended 1 and they didn’t bother with a biopsy, thank god, because there was nothing there). And yes, it’s always always hard to relive that stuff. My heart starts pounding, my hands shaking, and I feel both angry and powerless at the same time.

      In a way, I’m a little glad for it because it motivates me to warn others and spread the word where I can.

  20. It’s a sad day for the US today as Roe v Wade was just overturned and more than half of the population will soon no longer have access to abortion.

    What I haven’t seen any mention of yet is that now more than ever, we need to make birth control available over the counter. Studies have shown it’s safe enough, ACOG recommends it, and it’s OTC in many countries already.

    You ask the average woman what she thinks about birth control being OTC and you’ll hear that it’s not safe enough and that without requiring a doctor’s visit, women can’t be trusted to keep up with Paps and other testing that is unnecessary for birth control. These patriarchal views still have a strong hold, even in the staunchest of feminists.

    I know not everyone is on board with birth control pills, but with rights being taken away, we need every contraceptive option to be as accessible as possible. I am wishing and hoping that this will be the wake-up call we’ve been needing to separate birth control from a doctor’s control.

    For any US women who happen to read this, aidaccess.org will mail you abortion pills whether you need them now or might in the future.

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