There is a lack of research on the harmful psychological effects of pelvic exams. The lack of research highlights how the harmful effects from pelvic exams have largely been ignored, or have been considered not important enough to warrant investigation. The small amount of research that exists has mainly been conducted with the goal of addressing women’s “anxieties” with the exam, and has been done for the sole purpose of learning how to harness women’s compliance.
In spite of the lack of recognition given to the psychological harms of pelvic exams by the medical community, many of us do experience harm. Many of the comments from women on this blog and on other sites have revealed that the psychological effects are often significant and can have a detrimental impact on our lives. In addition, the psychological effects can be difficult to understand, clarify, and articulate. This post is a compilation of my own and other women’s experiences of pelvic exams presented in a way that attempts to clarify an issue that warrants more attention.
Psychological Harm #1: Trauma
A woman’s first pelvic exam can be traumatizing, especially if she is unaware of the exam’s invasive nature and/or is coerced into the exam while seeing her doctor for a different reason. In these cases the woman is unprepared and is not expecting an invasive exam to take place. In addition, many doctors do not fully explain what the exam involves, explain the reasons for the exam, or offer the woman a choice prior to proceeding.
Here is what one woman has to say about her first pelvic exam: It’s humiliating, degrading, and painful. The first time I had a pap smear done, I was so traumatized, I now have to take prescription Xanax to avoid having panic attacks when I get pap smears done now. And I’m only 24. How many more am I going to have to have for the rest of my life? What am I going to do when I want to have children and every doctor wants to shove his/her fingers and tools inside me? (Scared Guest) via Women Against Stirrups – What’s your opinion on the pelvic exam/gynecology?.
Psychological Harm #2: Loss of Control
I can think of no position more vulnerable and undignified than naked with legs wide apart, feet up in stirrups, and a fully clothed doctor standing over me. Feelings of vulnerability and a loss of control in this position are intensified when I am asymptomatic and do not wish to have a pap test/pelvic exam – but have been aggressively pressured and coerced to the point where I feel I have no choice.
Here is another woman’s thoughts on loss of control and vulnerability: I am 21 and today i went for my first smear..UGHH i freaked out, cried and had to leave with a vicodin prescription…which is pretty straaaaight. but, the point of my frustration is that I, like you, feel as though i am being violated, and sexually assaulted. I feel overly anxious due to the vulnerability of the situation . . . Its not even like ive never had sex. it is just that i have trouble being prodded and fingered by a metal prong. (Anonymous) via Awkward Things My Mother Never Taught Me: Just How Violating a Pap Smear Really Is….
Psychological Harm #3: Dissociation
Women have been led to believe that a pelvic exam is a vital part of their health for so long that many no longer question it, or feel they have a choice. When a woman feels she has no choice but to undergo a violently invasive exam she will often develop a sense of detachment, or numbness, in an effort to distance herself from what is happening to her own body.
Here is what Claire T. Porter has to say: “Closely connected with the absence of self is the dispensing of existence experienced by women… Women undergoing these procedures report a sense of nonbeing” (Raymond 1993, xv). I cannot help feeling that my body, especially the most private areas of it, has been taken away from me. This surgeon and the horny resident both assess my pubic area. Now the vision of my genitals is held in their brains. I feel I possess my sex less and less and feel them both smug in the fact that they own it. What a power trip for them. Bastards. via Women Against Stirrups – I’m Taking Back My Pussy!.
Psychological Harm #4: Invalidation
The value women place on the privacy of their vagina is in no way reflected by many practitioners’ attitudes. There is an expectation that we are supposed to be fine with this type of exam. Yet have we not always been taught to keep our legs together, sit with our legs crossed, and to not let strangers touch us? The role we are expected to assume during day to day life versus the role we are expected to adopt during a pelvic exam are vastly different. How a pelvic exam feels and how we are told it is supposed to feel presents a gap of huge proportions. The lack of acknowledgment for how we feel confuses us, belittles us, and invalidates us. We lose a sense of stability, trust, and safety.
Chrissy (UK) says: This all goes with the ‘get used to it, you’re a woman’ attitude, or ‘I’m a doctor and therefore entitled to see and touch your body’. I don’t know what they are taught when they are medical students, but there is no way they understand what it is like for a woman to be exposed and spreadeagled on an examination table whist they rummage around in the most intimate part of our body. I still remember my first pelvic examination. I was 17 and the (male) doctor forced my knees apart, as I wouldn’t comply with his verbal instructions to spread my legs. I felt violated – I WAS violated . . . October 2, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Psychological Harm #5: Dehumanization
All women have a right to privacy and dignity, except of course when they are in the presence of a doctor. The name assigned to the “pelvic” exam is carefully nonsexual and yet what takes place during the exam is something more intimate than most women would allow a spouse or lover to do. It is cruel to expect women to ever become used to this type of extreme exposure, and it is inaccurate to assume women will become desensitized over time. To expect women to get used to the exam is cruel and dehumanizing.
Yazzmyne says: . . . I also believe that these gyn exams are rape even when a woman consents to it. She may verbally and rationally agree to it, but her body screams NO and most women do not listen or respect their own bodily feelings in this context. With all the fear mongering about cancer and the fear for the exam itself, she can’t even make a rational decision (and not that it has to be a rational one, because rationality is used to justify the whole ordeal and rationalize her feelings of violation away) because the mind is locked in fear and can’t think clear anymore and this is exactly what doctors want. There are so many benefits for them to keep using the medieval pelvic exam:
to satisfy their sexual lusts
for the powertrip
for the money
and the fear this exam generates in women also keeps them traumatized, in fear, unable to think CRITICAL about the so called need for them October 10, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Psychological Harm #6: Distrust
A lasting, pervasive sense of distrust is likely to form when one is violated by someone in a position of trust. The distrust that results from negative experiences during pelvic exams can present a lasting barrier to a woman’s access to health services. Women who are traumatized by their physician’s practices related to pelvic exams are far less likely to trust the medical system as a whole.
FerretGirl01 says: I have a terrible fear of the OB/GYN mainly because my very first pelvic exam was so traumatic. I was a virgin and it hurt so much that I cried. And even after I told the doctor to stop, she kept trying to collect the sample after telling me she would stop any time. I felt violated…scared…and I hurt so bad I had to take pain relievers. I was bleeding when I got home and discovered my “cherry” had been popped because the doctor was too rough and rushed with the exam. That made me terrified of ever getting one again . . . via Fear of Gynecological Exam – Women’s Health – MedHelp.
Psychological Harm #7: Fear
There are all kinds of fears that go along with this exam. There is fear of the consequences of refusing, fear of the consequences of complying, and fear of the consequences of speaking out.
Anonymous says: I’m 22 and I haven’t been to the gyno! Every time I even think about it I get so freaked out and sick. I’m not scared of being in pain – I’m scared of personal intrusion, of being on my back and not having control. Every time I think about it, it makes me feel like it would be some kind of assault, because I really **don’t want** it to happen, and going would just be me trying to get over my fears and knowing that it’s something I need to do. I’m terrified of anyone touching me when I know that I’m forcing myself to let them and that I feel so insecure and invaded. I haven’t been sexually abused . . . But I’m just SO.TERRIFIED. via extreme exam anxiety.
AVEN Member says: Doctors are always pressuring their patients to get it done, and instilling fear of cancer to those who refuse. I think they insist more on a pelvic exam than they do on quitting smoking. Yes, I am doing the ‘unspeakable’ and questioning doctors . . . I think the procedure is inhumane. If you think I just need to suck it up, please listen. This is ranting towards people like that. People that think women just need to “suck it up” or “get over it”. Rant on Pelvic Exams – Asexual Visibility and Education Network.
Psychological Harm #8: Despair
When women repeatedly have their way of understanding the world ignored it can lead to feelings of despair. When their understanding of what is occurring is discounted and invalidated; when their fears, trauma, and other experiences are ignored, then their place in the world and sense of self can shift. Women are often left with pervasive feelings of hopelessness and despair.
Anonymous says: I got my first pap smear yesterday. I’m not a big crying type, but I cried like a baby. It was the most traumatizing experience of my life. I’m 18 and I’ve only had one partner for the year I’ve been sexually active . . . The metal “spectrum” upset me and that was bad enough. But the worst part for me, that has left me horrified and with nightmares, is what came next. Nobody told me going into this that the doctor was going to shove her hand all the way up to basically my stomach. EXCUSE ME?! Why does nobody see this as completely violating!! I cried so hard. Today being the day after, I keep reliving it and I don’t want anyone to touch me and I just feel disgusted . . . I should not be subjected to this, especially at my age I don’t think. Not to mention that I was pretty much forced to get one if I wanted birth control. That just seems wrong to me. I try to be save and prevent a child at this time and my life and what am I forced to do? Be humiliated, violated, and traumatized. via Awkward Things My Mother Never Taught Me: Just How Violating a Pap Smear Really Is….
Elizabeth says: On one blog a young woman was so stressed about pap tests she wanted to be knocked out…it’s shocking, she should be told to forget about it and enjoy her life – this testing has robbed so many women from the pleasure of being healthy, young and female and often takes our peace of mind, bodily privacy and dignity, damages our health and lives, destroys relationships and takes the shine off sex, especially after traumatic “treatments” and when women are unable to access the Pill without forced testing…and at age 30 if she’s worried about cc, she could test herself for HPV, but that would be too easy and make too much sense…actually doing what’s best for her, she’ll probably end up being sedated for a pap test…so depressing. http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/unnecessary-pap-smears/comments-page-175/#comments
In conclusion I would like to say that if you find you have “anxieties” regarding pelvic exams you can take heart because, as you can see, your concerns are valid. On a brighter note, more women are becoming aware that they have the right to informed consent for screening. In addition there are now alternative ways to test for cervical cancer, such as home HPV self test kits: https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l1357
forwomenseyesonly 
Ada I’m so sorry what you went through. I changed practice around 6_7years ago so I was ignoring “invitations ” from different places which is probably why i got away so long. When I got my next “invitation ” earlier this year I decided I couldn’t face another barrage of letters so took to Google and read that if I ignored two rounds they’d be ringing me. I would have found that totally unacceptable so I informed practice in writing and signed disclaimer. By then another “invitation ” arrived from NHS England so I rang them and politely told them go to hell. As I’ve posted doc still raises it every visit so he’s next on the list. It’s funny I never realised how bloody angry I am about the smear testing debacle. I used to go home and bath in Dettol I felt so violated. It’s finding this site and all you ladies that’s helped. I don’t think my daughter will screen but I’ll respect her choice as an adult woman.
I think the programme is in serious difficulty as you posted which is why I suspect they’re pressuring opted out women like me. I live in an area with a large ethnic minority population who I know are reluctant to expose themselves (understandably). I never knew it was illegal to harass an opted out woman til you told me so bring it on doctor!! I’m sorry for the rant!
On the subject of sciatica.. Can anyone give me any advice on joint pain and stiffness? I think it’s menopausal and don’t want to risk the doctor because obviously, to them it originates in my cervix so I need a smear..
I read somewhere that mothers and daughters should be smear test buddies. We should keep track of each other “invitations ” and “encourage ” each other to attend. Excuse me? My daughter is an adult, shouldn’t u respect their choice? My girl has medical needs, arthritis diagnosed at 9, dodgy immune system, food and medicine allergy an now thyroid problem. Even as a child we involved her as much as possible about her treatment, it’s funny she begged us herself she didn’t want HPV vaccine and we sure agreed with her!! Just another example of the patronising way women are treated
Hi Kat. I used to go home after a test and have a shower and literally clean my self out. I had to shove the violation to the back of my mind bevause like everyone else i was nade to feel as tho thus was a natural part of being a women. It just shows its rape because that is exactly what a victim of that would want to do. Its instinctive in us not to have smears as there is something wrong with it. The brainwashing programme they implemented must be good to overide a womens natural self protection instinct.
I’m so glad i directed you here. I found this place because of Ada and Eliz having posted on other sites. I basically just followed the trail here. Its like a chain reaction i think. Women are findind their way here for ond reason or another. Thankful when they find they are not alone.
I have had sciatica for the past 8 weeks. I have controlled it through hot water bottles, walking, passion flower from a sleep aid sold at bodycare, ibuprofen. There is no cure for sciatica. All you can do is minimize the effect. It will go on its own in its own time. If you go the doctors they will give you amyltriptiline but they will try and stick a finger up your ar#e first. The doc was horrified when i challenged her she said it was to rule out more serious condition. So i said i will clench myself to see if i’m ok. She just accepted that and prescribed pills.
X
Hi Melissa. I’m so glad you found us. Healing is a long process. Some days i am up sometimes down. But they will never get me again. I take comfort in that and so should you. Its a relief to know your body is niw your own and not somebody elses.
Did some research today. Papanikoloau was tutored by a man called Earnest Haeckel when he was at uni. If you google haeckel you will find this man was a monster.
He ‘proved’ that black people were inferior to white people. He did this by examining the toes of several black people and showed that they came down from the trees later than white people and were therefore less ‘civilised.’ He did this to show the order in which the different races were ordered. He also studied throats taken from cadavers to ‘show’ that white people had developed language ealier than black people. All of his research was used a couple of decades later by the nazis to implement a progtramme of mass genocide that would leave ony the true ‘aryan race,’,
No wonder Pap man was warped in the head. He basically got his speculum from gross treatment of slave women anyway.
Once you do the research it all falls into place.
I tell you they are all part of some weird hatred mentality.
http://medicalhistory.blogspot.com/2012/08/mrs-papanicolaou.html
Linda, the history of this test is simply shocking, and the fact that Papanicolou was a zoologist and not a doctor says it all about the way women are treated today – just like animals. This article shows how he used his wife every day for this test, and then some of her friends for a wider testing group. When one of the friends got cervical cancer he immediately put 2+2 together to make 5, assuming that the cells on this womans slide were the key, and then decided that others not matching his wife’s must be pre-cancerous.
There was reluctance from the medical profession to accept this theory as black and white from the beginning, but when doctors realised how much money they could make from this test, it was included as an integral part of health insurance policies across America. How many millions of women ended up with hysterectomies simply from having abnormal cells is a shocking thought, especially during the 1940’s to 1970’s when it was a dodgy operation with a substantial death rate in those days.
It was the New Zealander, Herbert Green who suspected all along that they were giving hysterectomies to far more women who would ever have got cancer, so he adopted a wait and see approach, and realised that only a very small proportion of those with abnormal cells would go on to get the disease. Many cleared up on their own and needed no treatment at all. Unfortunately, he was vilified by a group of feminists who exposed his conservative approach claiming he was allowing women to get cancer because he didn’t care, and to this day many people in New Zealand discredit him. Linda Bryder has written some very good articles exonerating him. A similar situation occurred at the Kent and Canterbury Hospital in the 1990’s, when a group of women claimed they had got cancer because the smears had been incorrectly read as normal when they weren’t. The hospital was forced to pay damages (taxpayers money, which could have helped sick people), in order to cover up the fact that the pap test itself is a hopelessly innaccurate test, which should never have been rolled out, let alone presented to women as an essential error free test. Although the hospital, quite rightly appealed,the NHS Screening zealots knew they had to keep up the pretence that the pap test was error free, so the hospital was forced to back down in order to ensure blind belief in the programme continued.
The result of this was that they lowered the threshold of what slides looked the slightest bit abnormal and made all those women go to colposcopy. Result-thousands more in the colposcopy clinics having a dreadful time, but told they have been saved from pre-cancer. Charities claiming that cervical cancer is on the rise again.
I keep planning on writing an essay on the appalling history of this test. Linda, if you are having trouble finishing your book, perhaps we should all just write a chapter each of our own interests on this topic, and the chapters can all be put together for a book?
I’m not sure where I could find it but someone wrote on either this blog or the old one about how the position a woman is put in for a pap test and usually accompanying pelvic exam is one of submission and on an emotional level she will feel violated. The focus on these exams despite how they make women feel and the lack of evidence supporting them is part of rape culture.
Adawells, your use of the word assume in this sentence “assuming that the cells on this womans slide were the key, and then decided that others not matching his wife’s must be pre-cancerous” is spot on. With the pap it has been correlation = causation with the assumption that it worked and prevented CC without any scientific backing. They have just assumed that it works. What other medical test or procedure in the medical profession has been kept and used and forced on patients without any real scientific evidence that it works.
Linda thanks! I like the sound of the passion flowers remedy. I can’t take amitryptilline I tried it for migraine and was back a week later it had worsened the condition!! I’ll try the passion flowers and borrow my daughters heat packs. Thanks again! X I love the way we all support each other here, and have a wealth of knowledge we share so freely. It’s truly a sister hood
Turmeric has been shown to be helpful in treating arthritis:
http://www.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/treatments/natural/supplements-herbs/guide/turmeric.php
This is totally unbelievable! This essential test, vital to women’s health care, was a developed by a bloody zoologist!! I read the link and am still reeling. I would rather have entrusted my cervix to a witch doctor now the times I did screen. If my doctor EVER mentions smear testing again I will have a few choice words to say!! Thanks ladies!
Hi All. Very few women know that Pappo was a zooologist. His so called medical degree is on the study of Daphnia fleas.
Very early on in his research his colleagues pointed out to him that the test had a low specifity. To rectify this he started holding ‘evening classes’ after the other lab workers had gone home for the day. He wanted to be certain that the info on the slides was going to be interpreted the right way.
How this man went from fleas to womens vaginas must be very contentious. He was taken on by Cornell uni to study alcohol effect on guinea pigs. (basically getting the little furies drunk)
The idea of a joint book is great. With Sue’s permission if you all upload about 3000 words of your own experiences i will put together a book and put it online. I will put it on for free so more people will download it, unless any money that can be made from it can be donated. I will create a front cover as i can do that. The title can be called anything we want if someone has a good idea otherwise i will think if one. Its end of october now if we aim to put it on just before christmas that gives us each about seven weeks to write 3000 each. It takes about 20 mins to upload so that will not be a problem.
However, i will also continue on my other one as well but just put it aside for the time being as i have done alot of scientific resesrch such as mefical records of peopke who died and so forth. This book for us would be more a collection of our personal experiences.
Fleas and drunken guinea pigs and vaginas equals science. Bring it on doctor!!
Actually a witch doctor is probably more competent!
Don’t know if these is related to the joint book or not, but I remember hearing that a tablespoon of ginger & a tablespoon of turmeric made as a tea is good for weight loss. Jsut thought I’d mention it, since turmeric was mentioned.
Hi Linda, each contributing is a fantastic idea. Do you want me to start a separate forum for this purpose?
ADM thanks I’ll check that one out. Interestingly my late mother in law used to use turmeric on bad deep cuts. It really worked when my husband shut his fingers in the car door. Thanks I’ll check it out x
Hi Sue. Yes. Brill idea a seperate forum to be completed by a certain date. That would put every file in one place so irs easier for me to get them. We could call it ‘for womens eyes only’ the truth of womens experiences they don’t want you to read’ that way we have a presence on kindle in case people miss us here. I will put links in the book to this site and hopey it will lead to more traffic this way. Thanks your involvement will make it loads easier. Anyone can put between 1000 and 3000 of their own exp. If anyone feels they cant do that they could direct us to a previoys post they feel suitable. A few poster like spirited away have alrwady said we could put their story in a book. It will be great!
Hi Linda,
I will publish a separate post on this site soon, and dedicate it to the book group. I’m hoping this is what you had meant? Once I’ve published it please let me know if you want changes to the post (e.g. picture, wording, etc.). If this is not what you had in mind please let know that too! Thanks 🙂
Turmeric is also great for asthma, which is generally caused by inflammation. My eye doctor of all people told me that! It has really helped me. I use it in spice form, which you can get even at the dollar store. For turmeric to be digested properly, mix it in with black pepper, which is also great for digestion system.
kat sweetheart another thing that might help is to drink aloe juice…tastes disgusting but wow does it have some great healing properties!! Any healthfood stores and even some grocery stores will have it.
Thanks Emily x
Linda that’s a fantastic title! And I’ll post something for it though my story’s nowhere near as traumatic as some on here! And feel free to mull over my past posts to use anything else that grabs you! And Sue a big thanks to you for designing and maintaining this excellent site!!
Thanks very much for the nice compliment Kat 🙂
Hi sue. Yes a seperate section like you do for the articles that we post on, then everyone is clear what its for. It should be an account of their experiences written as an essay. It doesn’t matter if grammar or spelling isn’t perfect due to us using ipads and phones to post, we will edit it before we publish to kindle. Also eliz from aust or Ada should put in one of their posts on scandanavia and hpv. Their posts are often more ‘scientific’. It shouldn’t all be about experiences otherwise readers wont glean anything, it should be about what they can do for themsrlves as well. I think it will take several weeks to do if we are going to do a decent job.
Hi Linda,
I am busy writing a short history of the screening programme, and how the evidence just wasn’t there that it would work, but how money and politics bankrolled it through against our human rights. I will post this in in a few weeks.
Ada- have you seen this? http://sss.sagepub.com/content/28/2/255.short
Hi Linda, the post is published. Let me know if you want changes!
Yes exactally this site explains me to an exact Tee this is exactally what goes through my mind when I think of this I’m only 18 and I have mild autisim I never have had any action down there besides from myself I’ve had such extreme fear of having to have a pap or pelvic exam or any other test that involves having to get naked and be examined by anyone else I don’t give a crap that it would be a trained doctor that went to school to do it like I said I don’t give a F no one is touching looking or getting anywhere near me down there I’ve had a slight dirty smell down there for a while now no pain or discomfort not even an itch and my doctor recommended that I got a pap more then once and also I’ve always had irregular pariods and my mom booked me an appointment for a endo doc and a teen doctor and I looked it up and from what I read they both usually start the visit with a visual of your naked pussy or pap or pelvic exam and I was a nervous reck I started getting depressed I almost stopped eating I hardly had enough will power to bother living anymore but thank god I was plesentally suprised all that they did was ask questions and do blood work and now I know the minimum age of 21 is the absoultally the earliest that il have to worry about any legs spread wide open naked for all to see type of an exam I’m still going to absoultally put my foot down and refuse due to my beyond extreme fear anxiety and hilimilliation and total pepeve of having anyone but myself do anything down there I get so worked up that I thought of ending my life to get away from being forced left with no choice to do it and if it comes down to life or death or an extreme concern down there I’m going to definately going to need to be completely nocked out or so close to it I won’t have any memory of it that’s the only way il be willing to go along with it if not screw it il take the risk of cancer my fears and anxiety about that isn’t something to mess around with because it’s beyond extreme it gets to me mentally and psychologically also if I’m ever tricked into it like going to dhe doctor for a check up and they have the gown and the table all set up and they say u are going to have it done today and you’ll need to get completely naked and put the gown on and let us know when your ready or they just do the gown thing il know what’s up and il refuse and say oh fuck no I know what’s up I ant doin it !!! Il make a scene il through a tantrum and dash out of the room as if the place was on fire I won’t care what IDE look like all I’m saying is that I may be 18 I may be conserved but if u don’t have MY concent than it doesn’t matter what my mom says no one can legally force me with ought getting hurt I’m willing to put up a fight oh btw if I do get sadation but it’s only a paralizer or I remember any part of it I may try to end my life so I don’t have to live with the fact of being taken advantage of or tricked like a tinny little kid that u can trick with no proble I’m smart rnough to know what’s up and to spot a trick at the bigining and that’s pretty much my whole view about that matter !!!! I have less of a fear of a public Brest exam than any type of a pussy exam / any type of rectal or vaginal exam
Very refreshing post. Thought I was alone in using the words “traumatised” “humiliated” “violated” in relation to this sort of examination. Glad that people are challenging the idea of “you’re a woman get used to it” – and also challenging using the fear of cancer to pressurise a woman to undergo this. I’m also amazed that the idea of having a gynaecological examination performed by a male is somehow perfectly acceptable! So when this is challenged – yup – I’m glad again. Apparently just one in five consultant gynaecologists here in the UK are female, not sure about US figures. Thanks for posting this – it’s a good insight that needs to be aired.
“Assaultive” is another one. I notice that the term “sexual dissonance” doesn’t really come up much, either. When something’s “against the grain” in that way, it seems that people go with more minor terms- like “uncomfortable.” Sorry to be so crass, but a rock in your shoe is uncomfortable- a branch someone stuck up your ass is an affront.
Something being antagonistic to your alignment is obviously not a minor issue. Despite what medical personnel might believe. If they DO have a disregardive mentality (or an affirmative one, for that matter), then the patient/client has no assumption of safety. They can definitely be seen as “the enemy” in that case, whether they agree or not.
I guess they tend to think they have to “accept” a decision by the patient. Not that they are aware of it, but that they think it’s off good quality & would do it themselves if they were in that client’s place. Turns into a whole bunch of ontological turmoil instead of them just backing away from whatever the patient doesn’t want them touching.
My doctor felt a cyst on my right ovary. Had me have a pelvic sonogram and then the next week i started my cycle and when he checked he couldn’t feel the dermoid cyst he stated I had. So had to do the sonogram again. What does all this mean?
B.gutierrez, welcome to the forum
One way to avoid all of this worry and risk is to refuse routine pelvic exams. I don’t know whether this cyst was felt during a routine exam or one for symptoms. If it was the former, I’m not surprised your doctor “thought” s/he felt a cyst – false positives are a risk when you have routine pelvic exams.
I’ve read a few US health forums over the years and it amazes me how many women have investigations for “something” my doctor felt during my annual pelvic exam – I suspect the doctor is feeling something completely normal – ovulation…and that also explains why further investigations find nothing or it suddenly can’t be felt anymore.
Some poor women end up in surgery having a healthy ovary removed….shocking.
You might care to read Dr Carolyn Westhoff’s articles, she’s an American ob-gyn who is dead against the routine pelvic exam, she believes it partly explains your high hysterectomy rates and the loss of healthy ovaries. (both surgeries occur at more than twice the rate found in countries where women don’t have routine pelvic exams)
Anyway, if you’re symptomatic, get a second opinion, but if it was a routine pelvic that found this “cyst”…then it all makes a lot of sense – false positive!
Sadly many American and Canadian (and other) women have been led to believe these harmless cysts “could” turn into ovarian cancer. I have nothing but contempt for doctors who mislead, scare or coerce women into routine pelvic exams, find something harmless, do unnecessary procedures/surgery and then leave the woman with the impression, “it might have been something, you were lucky, it wasn’t this time, but remember to come back next year for your women’s wellness exam so we can catch anything early” etc.
Snake oil salesmen/saleswomen, more should be done to stop these people, they harm and worry a lot of women – all part of a great business model.
During ovulation cysts form on the ovaries as part of the formation of the egg. It would have made more sense for the Dr to have questioned you about where you were in your cycle instead of going ahead with further testing. Pelvic exams are no longer recommended because they are not accurate and they have high rates of false positives.
Every ovulating woman develops cysts on her ovary(ies), those cysts usually disappear when the cycle goes to the next round. This is 100% normal and healthy. Though nearly every woman, at least once in her lifetime, has the cysts linger longer than one cycle. The reasons are unknown. Sometimes those cysts grow very large and can cause some discomfort or even pain by compressing the surrounding organs. Sometimes those cysts can also cause bleeding, usually mid-cycle, which can be quite heavy and go for up to 5 days. The vast majority of those cysts are benign and disappear after 3-4 months.
Doctors like to scare women into pelvic exams and “offer” hormonal pills to fight the cysts. This means the woman will have to come back for more exams and another prescription. Just business for medical profession, nothing to do with health benefits for the woman.
B, I’m not a dr so do please take this with a grain of salt but the way I see it there’s two possibilities:
1: He just wanted to do these procedures for his own reasons (power, extra money, seeing you naked) and had to come up with a convincing reason that he could later retract when nothing solid came up.
2: I have heard there are some cysts that will grow during the first half of a woman’s cycle and then disappear/ burst harmlessly during her period…also I’ve heard some women’s anatomy is setup such that the various glands in that area can swell quite a lot before her period and then reduce during/after
I’d say the odds are about 50/50 but it’s not like you’ll ever know for sure…unless the 2nd sonogram shows concrete evidence. For what it’s worth darling don’t let it bother you too much. Many MANY women have various bumps/lumps/cysts that are just there and wont cause any trouble. The best thing you can do is arm yourself with knowledge. Ask questions, do your own research, demand explanations…and above all YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO if you feel like he’s taking it too far and don’t let anyone bully you. It’s your body, don’t ever let anyone else make you feel like they have more control over it than you. That’s my 2cents. I wish you all the best…keep us posted 🙂
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/ovarian-cysts/basics/causes/con-20019937
You might note that if the cyst is causing huge pain that is not normal menstrual pain that goes away after a few days or remedied with a few ibuprofen, then you might want to do something about it. But usually pain is a huge motivator and there might be some other ways to deal with it. This doctor is trying to justify giving a patient surgery for a cyst that is rarely cancer but needs evidence such as an ultrasound. This is just a way to make money. If there is no “evidence” such as an ultrasound then insurance is not going to pay.
This reminds me of the case of a woman who did not want a screening mammogram. Her doctor then insisted she have a clinical breast exam (hands on). He said he felt a lump (she had not complained about anything herself). So the next step was send her for a mammogram. She was diagnosed with DCIS in the other breast and forced into the cancer mill. Her breast was removed two weeks later. She did not have cancer. This happened in Canada.
Thank you for this. I almost cried when I read it. I have dealt with various combinations of anxiety, depression, and disordered eating for 20 years and have only recently begun to attribute it to my first pelvic exam–which, due to (alleged) medical necessity, I had when I was eleven. ELEVEN, you guys. The doctor was male and did absolutely nothing to prepare me for what happened. I was scared of medical facilities for almost a decade after.
I’ve downplayed the incident most of my life because it was a necessary medical procedure, but with the aid of a therapist, I can now recognize it as a trauma that continues to affect me to this day. I have had much more gentle, respectful, informative exams since then, and I think a lot of progress has been made, but I wish there were more research connecting the exams with trauma.
Lauren. We are so glad you found us. Our site is a safe haven for you. I am so sorry you have spent your life so ill because of the tryanny of unwanted pelvic exams. Many of us here either don’t agree with them or have been harmed by them. I can assure you unless you have symptoms other than anything you would be able to treat youself you don’t need anyone going in to your private place on an ongoing frequent basis.
As women we are strong and most of us out live men – and live into a great old age. The thought that some men have set up a job for themselves examining women’s healthy private parts makes me shudder. Its like the some cheap horible porno script. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so harmful.
Please read all the articles and posts on this site and grow strong and confident avoiding this unwanted intrusion that has hung over you life like a black cloud.
Please join our ongoing lively conversation. I hope you find healing soon.
X
People keep acting like things like this don’t “count” & yet believe that someone that dies in surgery ACTUALLY dies.
The properties of the situation don’t change by designation- just like if a doctor poisons someone with a needle, it’s still murder. This is an interface with a sexual area (specifically, a penetrative one) as a product of someone else’s decision-making, which is an attack.
Even if it wasn’t a product of someone else’s decision-making, it would still potentially be problematic (given the dynamics) & something doesn’t HAVE to be useless to be an issue (although, it could always be both). It seems that people think refusal is off-limits except for approved things. Unwritten rules, of course- but it DOES seem that anything with potential utility is unofficially seen as something that is “wrong” to block from happening to you. Reflexively shooting for the “A-Grade” works against someone in this situation.
I agree with Linda. I hate how the word”need” is thrown around concering pelvic exams on symptom free woman. No one should be able to make woman feel obligated to have thses exam’s. That is abuse.
And don’t let a therapist tell you it was nessersery that is the popular belief . most people are afraid to speak against other doctors or what’s seen as standard care.
Thank you so much for posting this topic on your blog. Now I know I’m not alone with how opposed I am again well woman exam for myself. Just this past week, I saw a doctor for a regular checkup and new prescriptions pertaining to a chronic (unrelated) condition. This is a different doctor/clinic than the one I’ve been to before. After we spent 10 minutes discussion my condition and prescription options, he switched topics and asked me when was my last well woman exam. I told him 5 years ago, and apparently that wasn’t good enough. He didn’t even ask results or anything. He wanted to schedule one, and I said, no I’m good. He looked at me like I was crazy. Then he said, is it a matter of being looked at by a male or female doctor. I said, no that’s not it. He mentioned mammograms and I said I self exam. He said even a doctor may miss something in a breast exam. I didn’t debate it but hello mammograms miss a great deal too. Or they find something that isn’t really there. That’s just my philosophy. One of the comments in the main blog mentions fear mongering of cancer, and I think that addresses it best. They make us fear cancer so much, which for the most part can only be treated, not cured, that we go along with all these tests that cause so much anxiety. The doctor then asked if I would at least consider a general physical, with blood work. I agreed to come back in about a month, but now I don’t know what to think or if I really want to go back. It’s been gnawing at me all week. In a way, I feel like going along with the follow up even though I know that they’ll find the same thing they always do (high cholesterol) that I refuse to do anything about (that’s a whole other discussion in itself). He had also asked me about getting a flu shot which I refused that too. I think I just irritated him when I turned him down on just about everything. They look at us with dollar signs in their eyes.
I wouldn’t go back. Seeing as they might try to twist your arm & all (speed-talking so there’s no space for thought or refusal, talking about what they’re NOT going to do if you don’t let them do, general insults, etc…). It’s not a great sign that this guy is looking at you like you’re crazy AND saying that even doctors can miss something (yet, you’re theoretically going to them because YOU’RE not good enough- that seems like “gaslighting” to me).
One thing that seems real big is talking in fixed terms (like “we’re GOING to do” or “you WILL be having”) to try & convince you that the situation is “fixed” (like there exists no capacity for reality to develop any other way- which is nonsense, since an action has to be ENGAGED in order to occur).
Another one is to act like you’re somehow the oppressor by baring their actions. Deciding what goes where is, apparently, something they take as an insult & a tyrannical act. I’ve heard they see themselves in a way that’s similar to a military- I guess patients or clients are invaders to them?
Thank you, Alex. I decided I am not returning to this doctor. I was on the fence about it, but the nail on the head came when he refused to fix the prescription he had written me for what I had gone to him in the first place. He gave me a dosage amount much higher than what I have been taking for years. He had his nurse call and tell me, “Doctor wants you on the higher dosage and see if that works for you.” The dosage I had always been on works just fine, thank you very much. I just thanked her for calling and hung up. He had also forgotten to write me a prescription for my rescue inhaler (asthma). I have yet to get that resolved (long story) and plus I think they’ve dropped me altogether. That’s fine, because this past weekend, for the first time ever, I tried one of those Urgent Care places and was very pleased at the outcome. I had fallen and twisted my ankle, went to UC, got a prescription for my rescue inhaler with no BS. I’m trying to forego the first mentioned prescription anyway. If I do want it, I’ll go to a specialist in that area. I’ve been trying natural supplements and remedies so I don’t have to rely on Big Pharma and Megalomania Doctors anymore. Sorry for the long comment… I just highly recommend either going to a specialist for your regular issues, or trying one of these urgent care places, which treat all sorts of things.
Me again. I’ve been reading the comments (there’s a bunch so it’s taking me a while). There seems to be a thought process that the male GP wants to do such an exam for his own sexual satisfaction. I just flashed back to my last exam (that I will ever have). It was a female GP. You’d think that would have been all right, but it was weird. I was draped only in a sheet, on the table, waiting for her to indicate to begin. She was talkative, while possible helpful, but at the same time, a little too invasive. She yapped along so long that I actually remained seated up on the exam table, clutching at my sheet, wondering, what the blazes I had gotten myself into. What I remember most is that she asked me how was my sex life. I have NEVER in my life been asked this question by a doctor. I was somewhat shocked and taken aback. I just simply replied, “Well, I am married.” (har har) What was she getting at? Anyone else have that happen? Anyone have an idea of why she asked that? It bothers me to this day and that’s why I never went to her again. For the record, I’m not inexperienced with these exams. In my 20s, I had one every year (as a requirement for the pill). Once I got to my mid-30s, I stopped taking the pill and decided the exams weren’t necessary. Most of the time they’d find something wrong and then I’d have to go back in 6 months, only to be told everything’s fine. What malarkey. So that last exam with the weird conversation was the last straw for me.
I don’t think it’s all about sexual satisfaction, although you’ve got to admit that the field of gynaecology is a pervert’s paradise. They get to interfere with women’s sexual organs all day (for their own good, of course), get paid handsomely to do so and you can say ‘just being thorough’ when you go too far. If you don’t really understand how the female body works and can’t fix any problems, just remove the offending organ!
I do certainly think there are a lot of people in medicine who get off on the power they wield. So even if you choose a female provider you can still be abused. Manipulative and controlling people can be found in every walk of life, including medicine. You’re never more vulnerable than when you’re naked, and some doctors & nurses will take advantage of that. Doctors push their luck all the time – like asking you about your sex life when it’s none of their damned business – but we worry about giving them a few sharp words in case we get labelled ‘difficult’ and are treated badly as a result. They know we’re at their mercy at this point, and will abuse that position of power.
By the way, on some medical forum there was a student who, while trying to tell everyone what a terrific human being he was, claimed that he’d chosen to study gynaecology because it was the quickest route to becoming a surgeon. That’s comforting, isn’t it?
Especially when surgeons supposedly tend to have the highest rate of sociopathy of the various medical professions (although, I’ve got to assume that’s debatable). In truth, the medical community seems to see themselves as a separate community & feels whenever one of them does something it’s their cultural mode of behavior or some shit like that.
The “ways of their people” also seem to be that they act bullied & oppressed when someone doesn’t bolster them making their own decisions about what they do to someone else’s body. Even if it’s that person, themselves, deciding what goes where!
Yet, it’s a presumably trustable environment & whether you go there or get brought there, you won’t be iatrogenically attacked. Of course, if you don’t believe this or don’t want to “flip the coin,” you’re “wrong” & you’re answer is basically a target for vitiation. Not the way people generally talk, but it DOES seem like the right word to use. What you’re putting forth is given an “F” & has efforts to dissolve directed at it.
[It’s interesting, because one has to have some pretty extreme concerns for their safety if someone acting like this in the first place. From antagonism, in the first place. After all, someone IS boxed-in with them in both the ambulance & in the hospital, on top of the fact that whatever medical personnel does is not synonymous with harm)
There are also concerns from incompetence, since these people are not listening when a problem is indicated. If they’re not paying attention to detail & if it’s not pertinent that what they are doing is a problem, what reason does anyone have to believe that they or the people that work with them are going to be functional in any way for alleviating any issue- IF they even have one. Since it’s not out of the question for them to continue their actions in spite of being told that there isn’t anything to use them on, someone has to worry about “making their case” with someone that’s trying to drag them into an ambulance- a confined space that can be propelled to another confined space or the middle of nowhere. It’s not like their hands are on the wheel or like they have a choice in what’s directed toward them.]
I do have one bit of very good news. My doctor moved into a new office. So glad away from the old very pushy pro-pap nurse he shared there. My file came up again at the new office. Again, I was not asked to come in and pap/pelvic exam. He’s continued writing my HR Rx. I’m using Covaryx. It’s a brand name that’s relatively cheap.
A lady here mentioned that she’s importing her own bc meds from Mexico. Yesterday I spoke with my social worker who has lived in Mexico. There is a myriad of products one can get there w/o having to run the doctor gauntlet first. You simply confer with the pharmacist. He prescribes and dispenses on the spot.
Something to learn from here. Mexico is like a third-world country in many ways. But due to the poverty and population, the government has been forced to cut the fat out of healthcare. Things are much simpler there. US and UK would be so much better off. Actually the big-brother gov run healthcare & the AMA in USA would be far worse off. And it’s their political clout that must be overcome to secure positive change.
Switching to a more Mexico like system would also cut what should be the illegal influence big pharma reps have over doctors. Although the lavish vacations & all expense paid seminars at resorts have supposedly ended, there’s still the big free lunches that do happen. In return, docs prescribe the more expensive newer drugs when the older ones were better. Notice how older antihistimines like Tavist are gone?
Then there’s cost. The social worker purchased a compounded anti-inflammatory cream containing three ingredients for $4. No office visit! In US, an easy $500 plus office visit and hours wasted. Her US doctor stood both amazed and speechless.
If somehow politically we accomplished eliminating useless paps replaced with at-home urine tests and were able to purchase most simple Rx’s straight from a pharmacist, imagine how costs would plummet. The private sector would provide its own cost controls.
Until then, if you can’t cross the border, I recommend contacting a Mexican pharmacy via internet. There’s much to be gained; and money saved too.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to look at doctor’s reserved parking…and see less Mercedes Benz and more Hondas, Fords, and VW’s?
Hi Shana and Penelope. Welcome to the forum. This amazing site saves more people every day. I’ve been sure a lot of women read but don’t post. Since i’ve been a member the site has had nearly 100 000 hits but only a few hundred comments.
Time will show Papanikoloau’s true legacy to women was not freedom from cervical cancer at all but a life time filled with unpleasant and unwanted genital exams. We are the first generation of women in all of history to be subjected to them on mass. We must make a stand or they will continue for ever more.
Like circumcision was rechristened FGM to bring home the abhorance of it so Pap tests, smear tests and cervical screening should be called genital exams to make them clear what they actually are. It brings it home when we refer to what hapoened to us as unwanted genital exams.
During 2016 The World Health Org aims to reach more women than ever before. According to their most recent manifesto outreach workers are going to travel to communities to speak with tribal elders and husbands to persuade the females to submit to genital exams. These are places were a woman’s vaginal integity is often life or death to them.
The WHO cannot see their programme as the human rights abuse it is. We live in a world were to be born female is to be subjected to unwanted genital attention – this does not happen to men.
No one considers or gives a damn about our personal feelings. Nothing, only the expectation to permit others to root around our vagina to looking for things wrong with it.
If we don’t keep pushing one day it will actually become law for all women to have them. Forcing women everywhere to be subjected to this in my opinion is the biggest human rights abuse since the holocaust.
X
Also. When husbands, leaders, elders then having been brainwashed then go on to instruct the women to have them. (Similar to our story, they also won’t be told of harms,
and the test is unnreliable) A woman who has been given no choice but to have unwanted objects put into her vagina has been raped. The World Health Org far from providing healthcare is now operating a programme of forced mass rape.
Just like the one already being run by the NHS.
A little like getting the mother to “lean on” her daughter. These people are more or less obsessed with “get to” women & girls. I think they look at it like territory- at the very least, an applied influence is seen as a victory.
Hi Linda:
Thank you for the welcome. Indeed this site is amazing. Not just the site, but all of the people who comment here to keep up this fight. We’re pushing against a tide, and that tide is rolling back – never to return. I understand that around 80% of medical students are women, now, and the current male population is declining. I imagine that is due to all of the publicity surrounding the male doctors who’ve been charged and convicted, lost their licenses and served time (check out the Medical Patient Modesty site). I guess alot of the frat boys in college and medical school who decided they wanted to be over their head in women’s parts (having access to drunk girls at frat parties wasn’t enough) have seen the news or heard the stories and decided that to them it’s not worth it anymore. I really do believe the interest was born of perversion, but once they realized that it’s a real job, that they have to sweat through medical school and residency, they dug their heels in. They learned how to hide their sexual interests in attractive patients over time, and deny it when faced with patients that they’re not attracted to. But since they’re being caught now, they’re dropping out – too slowly for our liking.
Numerous medical sites out there promote these exams (exam isn’t really isn’t an appropriate name for that anymore, but we use it as it’s the accepted name…), but they still conveniently exclude the informed consent part; they only tell half the story. These medical sites say what to expect in an exam; it doesn’t treat it as what is offered, they make it seem simple – no harms; and fail to inform that there is a choice to decline. They fail to educate that cervical cancer is rare and that breast cancer screenings can and do yield false results. There is a site that condescends to children and teenagers to indoctrinate them into thinking this is what will be done to them and is required as a part of growing up. They use shaming tactics to suggest there’s something wrong with not wanting the doctor to look down there. They try to destroy a young child and teenager’s instincts that it’s wrong. The site addresses boys and girls, but the language is very different. For girls, it’s this is what will happen; for the boys this is what can happen. Truly despicable and disgusting.
I just wanted to mention also that I was looking at the WHO’s website. I saw that they’re tackling genital mutilation, but I didn’t see info on them promoting genital exams. It would be a major contradiction if they’re doing both. It’s troubling as it seems the male gynecologists who are losing ground in their respective countries are now going to third world countries to “practice.” Third world countries have been places where medicine banned elsewhere, is now practiced, so I’m not surprised. How despicable that they would go to countries where women’s virtue is part of their culture. I hope these elders see the light and run them out of their villages and towns.
Thanks again, Linda. Be blessed.
Hi Penelope i hope you are ok. To access the WHO manifesto go to the one on cervical cancer 2015 – 2017. The Who has a seperate document for each disease or area they want to tackle. I find their work on FGM to be a good thing but in the manifesto on cervical screening they are reaching out to husbands and male community leaders to get their women to submit. Just read through. It seems they think if women as having learning difficulties and unable to make their own choices. While I agree CC is a real problem its not up to the WHO to decide every women is going to have to submit to genital exams because they want to look for it. Thats paternalism gone mad.
Hi Penelope it on the WHO website cervical cancer prevention and control
http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/publications/cancers/cervical-cancer-guide/en/
Pages 87-89
Hi Linda:
I should make one correction – that’s 80% of medical students in going into the gynecology field are now female. That is such good news. I hope they all pass with flying colors.
Then again, if they pas with flying colors, might that mean that they’re cut from the same cloth? I figure a woman would be able to get in another woman’s head a bit better than a man, since she is one herself- not the SAME one, but that’s (apparently) omitted circumstances.
Never got what people were going for by saying “well, it’s a woman.” If a woman were to KILL another woman, no one would say “but she’s a woman, too” in argument with it being presented as an attack. No one would mention gratification as a factor, either- never mind randomly assuming a lack of gratification, in the first place.
I have a feeling you are right Alex. It doesn’t matter if they are men or women they all have the same ‘mind set’
Hi Eliz, Ada, Kat. I hope you are all ok. I haven’t heard from you all in a few days. Keep well friends. X
Hi Linda
I’m fine, I’ve been busy helping my much younger brother move house over the last week, he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s Disease in his early 40s, he’s married with 2 little boys…it was a stressful exercise but we’ve managed to move them into a beautiful mortgage-free property. He’s having deep brain stimulation in May…we’re all hoping for a great result.
We hear LOTS about cervical cancer, but not much about other fairly rare conditions/cancers, my brother was told the condition is rare in his age group, so is cervical cancer in any age group, yet the latter gets FAR more resources…and awareness campaign after awareness campaign.
That’s why I say the pin-up cancers get most of the resources….
Hi Linda I’m fine too thanks! I check in here every day to c what’s going on. Hope you’re Ok too x
Hi Eliz and Kat.
Thanks for replying. I check in here everyday too. More than once if I’m low. I’m not addicted to social media but this site has been a godsend to me. Its great.
I’m sorry about your younger brother. I hope the move goes ok. I don’t think doctors have a clue how to help really ill people thats probably why they concentrate their efforts looking for things wrong with well people.
X
Hi Linda,
Sorry if I haven’t been very active lately, but I recently started a new job, which is further away from where I live, so come home pretty tired each evening, although I always find time to check in to this site! As an employee of the NHS it has enabled me to borrow a fantastic range of resources, such as books by Peter Gotzsche, Margaret McCartney and other wonderful people. I’m reading Gotzsche’s book “Mammography screening:truth, lies and controversy” at the moment, and I simply can’t put it down. It is a great read. Don’t dispair, Linda. When I think of the outright abuse people like Gotzsche, Petr Skrabanek, James McCormick, to name but a few who have spoken out against screening programmes, have had to put up with, it spurs me on. We are swimming with the tide, Linda, and theirs is a lost cause, if you ask me. Nationally, the UK is now at just 73.5% attendance at cervical screening, and it is still falling. Will it drop below 70% this year or next, I wonder. I have also read in another of places that women over 50 with no abnormal smears are being quietly “invited” to leave the programme by their GPs! I have read that it costs the UK taxpayer 8 million to smear test all women over 50, and they are looking at making savings by inviting these women to consider leaving the programme.
I willl keep looking for interesting news items to post and keep you “entertained”.
Stay fim!
I bet the women will be stampeding away from the pogrom cheering their heads off!!
Hi Ada. I know how hard it is starting a new job it is exhausting. I hope its going well. I’m really surprised by the revelation about over 50’s tho. I’ll see what i can find tomoz. X
it was announced by Julian Peto at the HPV2015 conference in Lisbon that the over 50’s who have never had high grade abnormalities could safely leave the programme. I’ve not been able to find anything published about it, but then a woman on Patient.co.uk posted that her GP had told her she could leave the programme, and she was given conflicting advice by another GP who thought she should stay in. For the future in the UK, it seems that HPV testing asthe first test will definitely come into operation. When, I don’t know, but it will mean the smears can be spaced out. They have come up with a number of scenarios: a)everyone attend every 5 years, b) double the spacing, so every 6 years to age 50, then every 10 years or not at all after that. They have been doing experiments on how much to space the tests (see the ARTISTIC trials). I think they are keeping it all under wraps because they don’t want the Daily Mail setting up another “We want more screening campaign”.
legacy.screening.nhs.uk › policydb_dow
Linda and Kat,
Have a read of this latest review on the situation in the UK. It looks like they will double the screening interval when they bring in the HPV primary test, so every 6 years until 50 then every 10, but it doesn’t say how long for, or when this might be.
Adawells this is great news. Wasn’t it only last year the papers were proposing testing up to about 70? Thanks authority is kinda sayings cc maybe isn’t so rampant??
Kat, I will keep trying to find out more, but I think the link I attached isn’t working.
Ive commented before about a horrible experience I had having a pelvic exam done by a new Dr I started seeing.. but even after the horrible experience I will continue to get pelvic exams. I was diagnosed with vulvar cancer about 7 years ago… Vulvar cancer effects the vulva.. the area outside and around the vaginal canal, Without a pelvic exam I wouldn’t of known I had cancer until it was to late. When they found my cancer I was already at stage 3 meaning that it was in my lymph nodes and blood, which could of And would have spread my cancer to other areas of my body if left un-treated. There is many benefits of having yearly pelvic exams, like preventing cancers many of which don’t have major symptoms until late stages, diseases, and infections.
With that being said the way they conduct the exams need to change. It needs to be more gentle, compassionate, and informative. There needs to be a less invasive way to preform the exam…
No woman should feel violated when leaving the doctors.
Haven’t posted here in a while. Good to catch up. Shana if you have the physical be extra on guard-he’ll try extra hard to talk you into the stirrups. There’s a “conquest” reward in their brains whether they are male or female. I prefer 50/50 male/female gyn so that I can select. I’ve known some women, as what i read here too, who rate poor in giving an exam. Who wants to be asked “how is your sex life?” while they’re staring at your pussy? Would a man like same from his doctor? That’s an insult.
RE vulvar cancer. You should be seeing a doctor on a regular basis. Whether it be a specialist gyn, dermatologist, or oncologist. I’m glad for you. But, at stage 3, you didn’t notice any symptoms? Do you self check, like with a mirror? Was the tumor entirely sub-dermal?
The point we make here, which I feel you miss, is that while a office visit may offer the chance to catch many things, the way it’s done and the tests performed work against success. Women are violated, scared, and turned off to participating until they have no alternative. The tests, pap in particular, is 53% accurate at best. I learned here that related blood tests for ovarian cancer etc, have similar false outcomes.
Tests could be non-invasive. Such as Trovagene HPV and STD urine tests at 93% accuracy; and the Delphi Screener which uses self-collected cervical mucus. But that takes away the fun and money making doctors receive for staring at us, violating us, and getting to ask stupid questions while we’re naked and feeling even more vulnerable.
Dr Papakanou or however it’s spelled thought he was on to something. Once he got off on his tangent, the let’s-examine-the-vagina-virus spread. No room for common sense or double-blind testing which is the norm. Imagine the room of male doctors at the convention.
Dr Pap speaks, he’s got an erection. They discuss the method how to perform a pelvic? Another doctor stands to speak and half-drunkenly he first gives his two finger boy scout salute. The men jump and shout “that’s brilliant!” No doubt the rectal-vaginal exam was thought up while one of them was buying a six-pack. Hmmm, just where do they put the thumb? Why it can accidentally on purpose rub there; the most sensitive area. For the final vote to accept and force it upon the masses as a CC epidemic needing a cure-all? They stood and counted not hands, but erections. Perhaps they then popped corks to celebrate.
This is facetious sure. But the intense resistance to change for the better–to save our lives which is their mandate besides the do no harm thing. Ditch the pap and bimanual for Trovagene & Delphi Screener. Offer ultrasound for suspicious breast tissues first with thermography. Tumors have greater water uptake plus the aggressive have inflammation which gives off heat (also due to extra blood circulation). Mashing our breasts is not good to preserve the integrity of a fragile tumor.
You have a major challenge ahead of you; managing your disease. I’m a chronic pain patient so I understand, sympathize, and I’ll mention a prayer too.
It also needs to be a situation where consent isn’t outsourced to the doctor for final review. They seem to think they move with their own volition & are “independent” of everyone else. Their belief seems to be: “NO ONE tells them what they will or will not do to someone else! Not their mother, not their father, and most certainly not the person they’re directing these actions at. They make their OWN damn choices in life!”
Hello Mrsmissmae:
Welcome to the forum. I’m a new commenter myself to this site – which is really a safe haven for women with all that is out there. It’s been a minute since I’ve posted…Adawells, Alex, Linda, Katrehman, all have posted prior to you and I want to acknowledge them. This site buzzes with new information and informative comments and I navigate eagerly reading new information. However, when I read your post, it felt as if the brakes were put on. This is because your experience once again puts a face on what’s happening to women out there and my heart goes out to you. I’m sure the expert commenters will be responding to you soon. Alex has already. They speak passionately, and I hope what they say will feel heartfelt to you and supportive. Although I want acknowledge everyone, I feel the need to focus on you. First, I’m very sorry about your diagnosis and what you had to go through. It was seven years ago and it sounds as if still very fresh for you. I really hope you are doing so well, now. You left me wondering, though. You hadn’t mentioned if your pelvic was done by a man or woman and if that made your experience horrible; what treatments you had, like surgery or chemotherapy; since it was 7 years ago, if you were cured of your cancer; if you continue to see a male or female gynecologist. You, see Mrsmissmae, this site is all about ending the pelvic exam. The experts here have for years now posted information – factual information that states all of the evidence against annual testing. The harms, the targeted profits from doctors seeing how many exams they can get in, the outright perversion of male doctors who get gratification from seeing nonsymptomatic patients. Right now, Mrsmissmae, it sounds like you’er in the grateful stage of your experience and diagnosis. You’re glad that what you had was caught, so you at this point support the annual exam. I read up on vulvar cancer. Between your blog and the sites, it is very rare. Between – 4,500 and 20,000 women in the U.S. are diagnosed. That is the equivalent of a small town in America. It really – sucks – that you were unfortunate to fall in between these numbers. The problem is that for so many women, these numbers don’t outweigh the evidence that millions of women won’t get this or cervical cancer. It simply doesn’t justify millions of women subjecting themselves so that these doctors can continue with profits, power, and pleasure. This site treads on shaky ground sometimes as women still don’t want to believe these truths (But it’s getting them, one at a time….including me…). I’m afraid because of what you’ve been through, you won’t believe, either. Please continue to read the many many articles on this site that support ending or..at the least severely limiting the pelvic exam.
Since you want change for this exam, be proactive and take charge of your health and your doctor’s visits. I imagine you’ve been told getting exams is a must since you’ve been diagnosed. That doesn’t mean you should just go and unassumingly drop your underwear and do what the good doctor tells you to do. They can easily take your state of mind about your prior diagnosis and talk you into even more invasive tests, which constitutes abuse. Even if the doctor just wants to look, you’re in charge of that too. You should be sure to research any procedure you think isn’t relevant and decide if you want to get it done. Think – Informed Consent. I’ve counted about 8 procedures for females (pap smear, hysteroscopy, sigmoidoscopy, colposcopy, cytoscopy, hysterosalpingogram…and a couple others not on my mind) to about 2 or 3 that are for males…and males are offered the choice…they’re not told what do. I don’t believe you should be a biology experiment for every intern or student that wants watch or touch, either – refuse their presence and end the exam if they don’t leave..in fact find out first if they will be there and if so, then refuse the exam…find another (female) doctor. I’ve read comments about self swabbing instead of the speculumn….please look into it. There are kits that can be purchased. Ask…no tell your doctor you would like to do that as an alternative…or better yet, research these kits yourself. If they put up a fuss..and they do…then, you can exam yourself, you know….until you see something odd or that looks like a re-occurrence, you really shouldn’t subject yourself to someone shoving their hands into your lady parts once a year until you’ve looked and you’re certain you should get checked again. Since you said it was in your blood, certainly there must be blood tests that can detect if your white cell count is up. These are ideas that I hope you’re open to since you’ve found the exam to be invasive and wish for change. And the bimanual diagnoses nothing..the American College of Physicians stated so in 2014. Since your cancer was found externally, you shouldn’t have to get that done anyway.
If you have a doctor that insists you get exams in the future to ensure there was no relapse, then, please do, go to a female doctor. If you did and that’s what made your experience bad, then find another female doctor who will be gentle and not awkward. Female doctors get a bad rap sometimes, sometimes justified..and I speak from experience… however, they can’t match the perversions of the male doctors..just take note of those who were charged and convicted of sexual misconduct…charged because their patients had the nerve to go forward and refuse to deny what happened to them. You shouldn’t have to subject yourself to males for future exams when the evidence of their perversions and misconduct is out there. I hope that you don’t think, Mrsmissmae, that I was jumping on you or being harsh…it’s easy to feel passionate and want to inform others of what’s out there. I feel – we feel a duty to protect and help. So much to say….but I’ll stop here. I hope you never have a re-occurence of your cancer; I hope you’re doing well and feel blessed.
Hi Mrsmissamae.
Thank you for posting about your diagnosis. It must have been devestating for you. I can’t imagine what you’ve had to go through to be cured. I just hope you are ok and doing well.
Some women choose to have intimate exams. They genuinely feel reassured by them. And in your case resulted in a timely finding of your cancer. Many women don’t seem to mind either if they have a male doctor despite being aware of the risks.
Its all about choice. I am very pro choice. As a women’s rights activist I fully endorse your right to choose.
I came to this site because my doctor and his practice nurse lied to me that genital examinations were ‘mandatory’ for all women and i had no choice. I, like many other women desperately wanted to enjoy my bodily autonomy and my privacy. But they robbed me of that with their lies. Even once when i asked Dr V & later Nurse GG if they were totally necessary they both implied they were. I now know from a post from Ada that doctors in England had already colluded with the NHS and govenment to introduce a programme in 1988 intended to have every woman in the uk genitally examined on an ongoing basis for their entire adult life. No matter how the individual women felt about it they were given no say. Their vaginal details were recorded and uploaded to a national data base. For railroading women into this repulsive thing doctors received 30 pieces of Judas’s silver.
Because of this unethical manner of treating women, i had 7 forced and unwanted genital exams that upset me deeply. Each one led to awful problems and further unecessary investigations and one robbed me of a baby i refer to as Richard as this is my favourite name for a boy. Nurse GG sexually assaulted me. They took an innocent young 22 year old and raped me with impunity.
Here in Haydock, St Helens, Merseyside because it is a working class area we are thought of by our doctors as being filled with sexually transmitted diseases and that we must be forced to be checked for them.
No one thought it important or necesssry to explain to me about false positives, negatives, the low specifity of the test, CC is rare, as a women in a totally mongomous marriage i was low risk. I found all this out last year by accident after an incredible 30 years of swallowing this lie.
I now realise i should have been given a choice. I didn’t want these exams and suffer because the whole thing about them is horrible. In Britain we receive letters that give you no choice but to make an appointment to have yourself genitally molested by someone you don’t really know. I can not tell you the anger and rage I feel. I now ignore these demands and campaign vigorously to bring an end to unwanted genital exams being forced on women. You may care to read other articles on this site and the many post or even go online to look for our free ebook it may give you an idea of what can actually happen to women when things go very wrong.
Perhaps if I had wanted them i would feel differently. But i didn’t.
This amazing site exists to give comfort to people like me and others that didnt want these genital exams and live with the terrible feeling of having been molested by the people we should have trusted the most.
I wish you well. You should find a site for people recovering from cancer. You will find comfort and like minded people who will love you and take care of you.
This site is for people recovering from unwanted and forced genital exams.
Be blessed. Linda x
What is not mentioned here, and my theory is that our brains process and react to these exams and procedures in the same way it would to rape and assault. There is no distinction between willingly participating in this humiliation and picking a random stranger off the street to do it. In most cases, we are no more familiar with the physician than anyone else.
Also, a lot of women have faced coercion over the years, in these cases, there is no consent at all. I can certainly understand why some women suffer on-going psychological issues after this test.
Anon, I think you make a valid point, so many women have said to me over the years, “it was so horrible, I just had to go somewhere else mentally”…some women disconnect, it’s almost an out of body experience.
None of this is good for our health and well-being…
Oh my goodness, yes, Anonymous!
You are so correct. They think that because they are in a sterile office in a white lab coat; and that they’ve convinced themselves that they are giving pelvics, bimanuals, rectovaginals, etc. for your own good (never mind they know the truth…..) and they want to get paid big salaries, that they couldn’t possibly be construed as performing medical sexual assault. The websites that explain the procedures conveniently leave out the emotional aspect or downplay it to shaming the woman for not wanting her body to be touched (I hate that!). No – it’s as you said, women and girls are instinctive and can tell that it’s a form of sexual assault, but give in anyway due to the coercion. Rape is defined as using force to have unwanted sexual contact or intercourse with a woman/female who doesn’t want it (although males can get raped, too). It doesn’t say by someone in a dark alley only – of course it can be anyone – especially in a white lab coat.
You walk into their office; they don’t even know you – but assume they do because they’ve “seen it all.” They tell you to disrobe and put on a gown to get you vulnerable; they walk in the exam room – see your hesitation – and proceed with their rehearsed speech about dying – it seems by the end of the year – from some cancer – if you don’t let them do it. They withhold the truth that would give you a choice. Yes, that is the force that makes it medical rape. The female supporters – the sheeple – deny this. The penetration definition of rape has many degrees; one of which includes penetration by objects. That would be their fingers; the speculum; (especially) the transvaginal probe …(they put lube gel and a condommm on those, just like a penis)….or any other tool they put up there. Combine that with the fact that since the truth about the necessities of these so-called exams is being denied; that the main reason they give for the test – to detect cervical cancer is bogus since only about tens of thousands of women in the country, let alone the whole globe get it, it is indeed medical rape. The “force” that is used is the coercion tactics based on false or innacurate information and risk of dying speech given at the visit. IF women were told the truth, they would not submit – there would be cobwebs on those stirrups.
I believe what you’ve stated has been mentioned here before. There are thousands of comments on this site. I’m more than certain it’s been mentioned somewhere in a response to the articles – so you’re in good company. I just wonder how long it will be before gynecologists – or better yet the ACOG – since this trickles down, will be forced to acknowledge this. Right, now, it’s a matter of women choosing not to screen. However, at some point, when the screening numbers are so low, or enough watch dog groups come forward, then they will have to admit the truth – and change the policies again – and again. They have once – expanding the screening periods to 3-5 years. They have to revise again as more women choose not to screen. They are strangely silent in the wake of all these perverted male gynecologists being convicted of sexual assault and rape, but change takes time. (hopefully not much more…). I hope you comment again to this site. As women come to this sight and comment and learn, this medical rape will continue to be challenged and fought. This is because we are part of this fight.
Thanks Anonymous – be blessed.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one that feels this way I thought smothing was wrong with me thank you woman for your stories it helps give me peace knowing I’m not alone.
Hi jo. I had a terrible experience and am so thankful to have found the comments on this site. It has helped me move forward and not feel alone.
My lover has gone through Mammography yet she would like atleast to have a baby with me, now my worry is would that sort of X_ray causes barreness to her or we will have children with her? Pliz dont be afraid to share the truth. Thanks
Relax, Jacob. Mammography is nothing more or less than an X-ray of the breast. Other than exposing her to ionizing radiation, increasing her chances of getting breast or other cancer sometime in the future, it won’t affect her ability to conceive or give birth.
It can though, set a horrible set of things in motion, causing her to have to have more invasive diagnostic surgeries, masectomies, and radiation or chemotherapy, all with their own risks.
Never heard of that happening, but with other “suggestions” of theirs I HAVE heard quite a bit about miscarriages & general injuries. Honestly, I’m not that astute about the biological stuff. I would say that you don’t fuck with the seal if you want to keep something in. Doctors can try all kinds of “Where, did you get your medical degree?” type of shit, but it’s pretty hard for them to argue against blatantly obvious reality.
About a week ago I had my first pap smear. I’m 23, a virgin and it hurt so bad I was screaming. I’m not a crier, but it’s 4 am and I’m sitting here crying about it. It was all downplayed so much my body was in such shock and the nurse was telling me about her friends who died of ovarian cancer. After the procedure I spent 15 minutes bleeding and crying in my mom’s arms. I thank the Lord she insisted on coming. I felt so violated and foolish. Later that week the same nurse called and informed me I had an STD, after filling out multiple forms saying I have never been sexually active, I could tell she didn’t believe me. After a good 5 minutes of me profusely insisting that was impossible, she talked to the doctor (side note: I have no idea how she couldn’t tell I was a virgin, considering how damn sensitive I was, and poking around in there). She called back and said it was technically an STD, but (I went to talk to her in person) can be contracted from a wet chair because of something to do with bacteria. A wet chair. WTF. She kept mentioning about telling partners about STDs, she was more worried about my effing non-existed partner, she didn’t think twice about telling the virgin she has an STD. I was so scared and frustrated and now need to get more tissues.
I’m so grateful this site exists because I thought I was alone, as this is a “totally routine” proceedure.
I’m sorry to all those women who have had traumatic experiences.
Hi Molly
Welcome to the forum, you’re in the right place, many of the women here have been traumatized by this so-called simple life-saving test. (or from the aftermath – false positives, excess biopsies, over-treatment, damage to the cervix etc.)
I’m so sorry you were put through this pointless and traumatic exercise, I hope you feel better soon. We constantly hear this testing is important for our health, yet they apparently have no concern about the large group of women left worse off.
For a start, I’d avoid that nurse like the plague, she’s definitely bad for your health and well-being. The nurse knows women who died from ovarian cancer, that’s very sad, but has nothing to do with pap testing or anything else, there is NO screening test for ovarian cancer. Now if she thinks pap testing somehow helps with ovarian cancer, she has no clue what she’s talking about.
If you’ve never been sexually active, pap testing is a waste of time, it simply risks your health, more than that…the evidence says that pap testing “sexually active” women under 30 amounts to lots of risk for no or little benefit. So some countries do not test sexually active women until they’re 25 or 30.
BUT…the evidence has moved on again and we know the ONLY women with a SMALL chance of benefiting from a 5 yearly pap test are the roughly 5% of women aged 30 to 60 who test HPV+ (and you can test yourself for HPV, no need for a speculum exam)
The STD thing makes no sense, ask her the name of the STD, if she can’t give you that, it sounds like nonsense to me. I assume you’re American or Canadian…
Look after yourself…my advice to you is to read, get informed and then you can protect yourself from the threat of women’s “healthcare”…most of it is not backed by the evidence and simply exposes you to risk. I’ve never had a pap test, routine pelvic or breast exam and I don’t have mammograms either. I stand guard over my precious asymptomatic body, if the test or exam does not pass my risk v benefit test, it’s no deal. Too many women have been harmed and the tragedy is…almost all of this damage was completely avoidable.
The nurse acted appallingly and to think she had the gall to tell you that you had an STD afterwards and judge you for something you do not have makes my blood boil. What an ignorant, stupid woman (who should not be practising).
I agree with Elizabeth – put her on the spot. Ask her to tell you what “STD” you were diagnosed with. You could even play her at her own game and tell her you are so concerned that you want to know what you have so that you can treat it!
I bet anything, that stance would have the horrid old witch backtracking (as it seems she is beginning to do so already). I am sure her conduct is in violation of her job codes by lying to you or by being so damn ignorant, that she doesn’t know or care what she is saying.
sorry to hear what you went through. i suffered for yrs before i said NO MORE EXAM ATTEMPTS!
its terrible how they treat people. these medical people are just puppets in the system.
glad you found us
diane s
as my mom says, we’re all guinea pigs for the doctors.
yep it sucks
Yeah, they’re just practicing medicine. I want one who is done PRACTICING, so I can have a medical provider who knows what they’re doing!
Ask to see the copy of the lab report because that will confirm the disgnosis of an STD and the name of the causal organism. Some organism can be passed by contaminated objects such as toilet seats, chairs, contaminated swimming or bathing water, shared towels and clothing. It could be common bacterial or yeast infections which even children get. In the case you did get something then usually there is a treatment which she never gave you? Some can be treated with home remedies but of course your doctor would poo poo that. If the doctor refuses or makes an excuse and will not ket you know the results then SHE IS LYING.
Great idea to get the report. Something smells with this whole “STD” claim on a virgin. Many STDs are reportable diseases – that is, they must be reported to a governmental department or ministry by law. Failure to report such a thing can get them jail time. At the very least, any reputable medical professional would treat it as they are able, and educate you regarding what you have, proposed treatments available, your prognosis and who (if anybody) the disease was reported to, and under what laws.
If it were an ordinary bacteria, fungus, or parasitic infection, she would not have called it an STD. Yes, many bacteria, viruses, and fungi can be passed in ways other than sexual intercourse, but (for instance) a candida infection would not be called “an STD” by any health profession.
If the report said that you are infected with a particular pathogen, and you find that it is an STD-related pathogen, and you are a virgin, the first thing to do is to repeat the test, preferably by a different lab with a test taken by a different medical office. Lab test results get mixed up and contaminated sometimes. If the second lab test confirms it, find out more about the specific disease and treatments available, and the prognosis and how to avoid spreading it to anyone else.
Talking about “practising” – we had a man pretending to be a gynaecologist for 10 years here, he’s now in court
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/melbourne-man-allegedly-operated-as-a-fake-gynaecologist/news-story/eb0e1f6076a3cf60200a15f25ed3d120
thats awful. we have had issues like that here in fl. ( fake drs)
Yeah, they’re just practicing medicine. I want one who is done PRACTICING, so I can have a medical provider who knows what they’re doing! i would like one also. But I am done trying suffered enough yrs, and have got a diagnosis or help, just a lot of trauma!
I have recently realized some of my self esteem issues and inability to connect with women is related to this issue.
Does any one else feel like they are damaged, and resent women who can be intimate without Issues? I have battled this for so long. Te hardest is part is never finding out what is wrong with me.
Do these women working in medical offices get pleasure out of bullying suffering women?
I leave dr’s office staff are bullies. I am a patient not some barbie doll you can just beat up ( always hated barbie).
I don’t have mammograms either , don’t need more trauma!
lets keep working so women don’t have to suffer like we have!
i am willing to share my story publicly!
“I have recently realized some of my self esteem issues and inability to connect with women is related to this issue”
Diane, you’re definitely not alone, I’ve spoken to lots of women over the years who feel the same way, mostly online. It was mostly online because for many years women were fearful to say anything negative about this testing for fear of being verbally assaulted by pro-screeners. The women’s screening “climate” was so toxic and warped.
I also felt different to other women, because I was not having pap testing, so certainly didn’t “connect” on some levels.
I felt uncomfortable when the talk turned to pap testing, there were some strident advocates of pap testing on campus and in the office. At that time it felt like I was avoiding something, the pressure was so great…it was quite frightening, I’d push it out of my mind, but with age, those feelings changed and my screening status became a source of strength.
I think women who’ve been pressured and coerced into testing can be left with lifelong psychological issues, let’s face it, you’re being forced into a highly invasive test. No wonder many women are left feeling violated, assaulted etc.
I think this loss of control can have a devastating effect, and add to that the test might occur at a time and place not of your choosing and with someone you wouldn’t choose for a pap test.
Some women feel angry they were unable to stand up for themselves in the consult room, that they accepted the lies, (all women must have pap tests/you need one for the Pill etc.) many women blame themselves for a bad pap test/biopsy/treatment experience.
I’ve heard women say they feel dirty and worthless after years of pap testing, biopsies, and treatments, it can turn them off sex and intimacy, damage self-esteem etc.
One young woman (Megan, she posted on the Blogcritics site) said she no longer wanted to be female, she hated being a woman because of pap testing, breast, and pelvic exams. Megan was forced to have pap testing to get the Pill, she ended up having an excess cone biopsy (they found nothing) but she was left with significant damage.
The life-changing and devastating cascade of biopsies, procedures, and surgeries all started with an early and forced pap test. (think she was 19)
Megan also had surgery to open her cervix; (she had cervical stenosis as a result of the cone biopsy) she had serious on-going health and psych issues.
Megan’s posts have stayed with me, she ended her relationship, she no longer wanted any sort of intimacy and was trying to live with pain, cramping, spotting, odour etc.
ALL of it was completely unnecessary and avoidable…just tragic. We don’t hear about women like Megan, no one wants to know but I know there are many Megan’s out there.
They claim they’re saving lives but at a shocking cost – our program here has ensured we harm and worry as many women as possible with serious over-screening and early screening. (and no real respect for consent/informed consent)
Some women have endured pap testing for years (and often pelvic and breast exams) simply to get the Pill, when they discover the Pill has nothing to do with pap testing and vice versa, this can lead to a lot of emotion.
“Does any one else feel like they are damaged, and resent women who can be intimate without Issues?”
I don’t feel damaged, but then I would most certainly be damaged if I’d been through a fraction of what most women have faced, I would not have coped with coercion.
I think that was clear to me and that’s why I told my partner (now my husband) that the Pill was out, I would not submit to an assault every year to get the Pill. I explained the test was supposed to be elective and had nothing to do with the Pill and that pelvic and breast exams were not supported by the evidence and were far more likely to harm me.
I was prepared to walk away from the relationship, that’s how strongly I felt about the issue, I felt like I was fighting for my health, physical, mental and emotional. I would also have become resentful that I was required to go through an assault, it would have turned me off intimacy.
I know women who stockpiled pills and avoided sex so they could stretch out the time between assaults. This “simple” test has negatively affected so many aspects of our lives. even damaging and ending relationships.
My boyfriend was studying science, he understood completely…and we moved on to look for an alternative, one that did not call for an annual assault. (we’ve now been together for 34 years, married for 27 years)
I do feel some anger that I’ve had to live my life around this testing to some degree and I feel incredibly angry for other women, how dare they abuse and harm so many women!
I doubt the fires that burn will ever disappear completely, I feel like I’ve witnessed an era of incredible abuse of women, how can you ever forget?
I also feel sadness…that so many lives have been ruined or negatively affected by this testing.
I can’t think of anything that matches the disgraceful conduct of Papscreen and others, the promotion of opportunistic screening (often it’s coercion) the targets, target payments, the misinformation, the mind games and psychological tactics etc.
It’s a damning indictment that all of this has gone on for so long…and so many thought this was an appropriate way to “offer” cancer screening to women.
Hi Eliz. I’ve been left very upset by all this testing. I doubt I will ever come to terms with what happened to me. I think you know i’ve been left with a lot of issues because of it. I don’t think i’ll continue with that book. Its tiMe for me to let go of all my anger and upset and get into a better place mentally. X
I have been crying for 2 hours now after seeing a gynecologist. I asked to see a woman but such requests are not granted. I feel distraught and confused. I hate myself but I don’t know why. All I keep hearing in my head is “get over it”. I feel like I’ve done something wrong but I don’t know what.
sorry you are suffering jl i have felt like you. i no longer go to gyn’s. not worth awful it makes me feel. prayes to you
diane
Thank you Diane,
I really appreciate your supportive words. I am still very angry at myself for ‘going along with it. ‘ I really thought I had no choice. I have so many thoughts that are making me angry about what people think they are allowed to do to a woman’s body . ‘He’s a doctor so he can do what he wants.’ I hate the hierarchy and they way he smirked when he saw how uncomfortable I was. This male who knew he was about to fully and force himself into my body had no seeming understanding of how or why this could be a traumatic situation. I am so angry at myself for believing what I was told that this is totally acceptable way to treat a woman. I believed that he had the right to sit there smugly and almost directly claim “I am alowed to do this to you, it’s for your own good.” Its too late now to undo what I ‘willingly ‘ allowed to happen to me. If I was to redo my day yesterday, I would like to have told him the truth that I am uncomfortable with the situation and am not going along with it. Too little too late. I feel so gross and shitty.
I really appreciate your kind words again Diane. It is helping to know that I am not alone.
Jl Im 31 and besides having a pelvic exam when I was 17 and didnt need it, I always felt it was bull to go when your body is asymptotic. I think esp in the states society demands woman see a gyn for cheeck ups. That never sat right for me. I have never had a gyn problem so why go looking for problems with invasive intrusive exams. Just remember despite what people will tell you about all woman needing to go for exams that most are brain washed. You could have a problem anywhere in your body but no one pushes us to be screened for other problems. Its become a socital norm to go to a gyn -and doctors are the worst for pushing it on woman. Stand your ground dont be bullied.
KLeigh, this has been quite therapeutic for me..thank you!
I couldn’t get over the feeling that i had done something wrong. After, when i spent the afternoon crying in the park, I tried to reconcile that I didn’t do anything wrong and neither did he. He was just “doing his job”. But I did do something wrong. I didn’t stick up for myself. I let others decide what is best for me and I went along with it even though everything about what was happening to me felt terribly wrong, invasive, voyeuristic, domineering, unsympathetic, controlling…I’m sure I have other adjectives but bottom line is. …I didn’t feel like my body was respected. I believed that he had the right to (creepily) grin at me and reassure me that “it’s OK. I do this all the time. It’s for your own good.”
I am not sad anymore. I am raging angry!
Nobody, especially a middle aged man who likely has his dinner layer out for him when he gets home by an obedient wife, will ever decide or tell me what I will or should do in life, especially to my own body.
(That last part seems unnecessarily rude and judgemental but f#@*k it! I am so mad!)
I know your new hear and may not have read my experience where I shared being bullied by a nurse when I was 24 for not ever having a pap smear and her being out right mean to me. the whole visit after I told her thst I had never had one. She gave me a look from hell. I was sick, unrelated to gyn pronlems and she was peved that I couldn’t give her the date of my last pap smear. She even tried to get me to remember every year since I was 18 if I had had a pap and I keep saying no every year she named off. She scoffed and talked down to me. I regret not puting her in her place but was so sick and scared I had enough. You are not alone in this. I learned over the years that my bodie does not belong to doctors and nether does yours. I hope you heal from this and remember its okay to say no , no matter what anyone tells you.
Well, properties don’t change by designation- just like if a doctor were to poison someone with a needle, it’d still be murder. This is true with other things, as well- for instance: an interface with a sexual area (specifically, a penetrative one). If a product of someone else’s decision-making that is an attack (regardless of potential utility) & the unconventional or non-cliche manner of application is exactly that.
Another point is that something doesn’t have to be useless to be an issue, and the potential utility is apparently not as advertised. Neither is safety, at the very least in the sense of low accuracy leading to other problems.
A lot of medical personnel are pretty big on “intellectual negation” (like the concept that what comes from them is an “A” & what comes from everyone else is a “B” at best, so they outmatch them- conveniently enough, the person they apply whatever action to isn’t the one doing the grading). There’s concept of being too arrogant to catch their own mistakes & flat-out sneakiness for its own sake (“Duper’s Delight”). There’s the concept of repeat costs (tests, treatments, follow-ups) & incentive payments. There’s simple perviness.
I really don’t get what the difference is between a man doing things like this & a woman, since it’s still the same action applied- sort of like “two guys in a prison cell.” A woman CAN get turned-on or otherwise derive gratification from this situation, but gratification is only an accentuating factor, at most. I hate how people say “It’s not like that, they’re a doctor/nurse/etc… . It’s not like what? Reality? What happens is what occurs, after all. Reality doesn’t take a coffee break for medical personnel.
What do you suggest I do?
I want to put this life moment behind me. It is obviously quite fresh in my memory. Any thought of the doctor or the appointment with him makes me upset and anxious. Do I write an anonymous letter to the gynecology department at the hospital?
Maybe when the anger subsides I will know better what to do.
My thoughts now are ‘wishful thinking’ that if he knew the extent to which I felt violated by the actions in his office, that it would somehow magically change the prodeedings. What makes me sad is that this is realistically not going to happen. This is standard, acceptable procedure. What makes me most angry, now that I have been doing more reading, is that my symptoms for going to the Dr in the first place requires an ultrasound for any type of diagnosis rendering the (I’ll say it again) INVASIVE pelvic exam completely futile. All that physical and mental pain for absolutely no reason!
I can’t thank you enough for this respectful platform to share my most vulnerable thoughts and feelings. I have read most of the posts now. I can say that I am not against exams in certain situations but I am certainly against the standard practice of making women feel like they have no choice but to be finger f#@*ked and penetrated by a random stranger in a white coat.
I am still too angry to be polite 😦
this is in y local paper
View in Browser myPalmBeachPost
Palm Beach Post
Wednesday, July 06, 2016
Your doctor’s accused of sex abuse – will you ever find out?
Rape, molestation, even S&M with patients. The Post found sexual misconduct by doctors doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t continue to practice, even when law enforcement takes action. The state board that regulates their licenses can take years to impose discipline, all the while keeping complaints and investigations secret.
This an injustice. i should right to know about misconduct by drs examining me
Hello to all of you. I’ve got some news for you. Right when there’s public discourse of urine-based HPV testing that we discovered from these sites. Just found out from Brittany Gream, the PR guru at Trovagene. They have d/c their HPV urine test. I’m trying to find out when and why; and if they still offer the STD test.
Ms Gream did thankfully tell us though that there are four blood tests for HPV. I’ll look into these. Meanwhile, the companies that offer this Blessed test are Labcorp, Quest Diagnostics, Neogenomics, and Hologic. I’ll try to find out costs, where offered, etc. As I live in SoCal (LeftCoast) the first two mentioned are practically household names.
Still, thank God, we have a choice. Wherever we go, we get the word out about these sites, and the alternatives we’re not being told exist. How important full informed consent really is. I’ve never been so empowered since my husband found Trovagene.
Thank you, again, for creating these sites. And, fellow warriors, please keep spreading the word. Better the inconvenience of spreading that than the pain from spreading our legs.
How I wish I could get through to Dr Carson, Trump’s future Surgeon General.
We have read some postings made in CervicalScreen from those we recognize here. We have tried to post numerous times. While CS uses ultra-nice pastels, sweet-sounding propaganda, all-female interviews, it’s all lies. And meant to stay that way. They will not print any of my submissions. It’s a shame, a furthering of abuse towards women and their partners, that this site exists and is funded only to serve one thing. Pap Scrapes.
Please, if you offer submissions to any site, consider describing the pap smear as a Pap Scrape. That name more properly describes the procedure and its lasting effects.
I’m 64 years old and kept getting letters that I had to have a Pap smear. I felt that if I didn’t have it I’d die of cancer. The first question the doctor asked me, was I sexually active. I found the question unnecessary n humiliating. I started crying. He proceeds with the test, plus pelvic exam. During the whole time he kept saying loudly, ” this is how it is with post menapausal women, n comments about my vagina to the nurse. I was so humiliated, I just put the tissue I’d been crying into over my eyes, n totally disassociated myself from the procedure. After the manual pelvic exam, the doctor made this comment. “Well, you’ve just been assaulted by the nice, kind Dr ……………..(his name). I felt sooooo small n degraded. I don’t know what that meant n now wonder if he did indeed assault me. I can’t stop crying. I’ve had many exams like this in my life, but never one that I can’t get out of my head.
I’m so sorry, Gail
I’d guess you’re HPV- so the pap test was completely unnecessary, the pelvic exam is not recommended in many countries, it’s of poor clinical value and exposes you to risk…even unnecessary surgery.
The doctor sounds highly unprofessional, insensitive and patronising, the remark about assaulting you makes me wonder. I do think some doctors enjoy the power this exam gives them over women, enjoy our discomfort, embarrassment etc.
I can certainly understand why you’re upset, if you feel up to it, you could lodge a complaint. So often these “doctors” get away with treating their patients (or some of them) badly.
Please do some reading, if you’re worried about cervical cancer, think about using the HPV self-test, something like the Delphi Screener, I’m sure that will confirm you’re HPV-
Welcome to the forum, lots of women here carry trauma as a result of a bad medical experience, sadly, it’s a large group.
Hopefully, we can reduce the number of women enduring humiliating, potentially harmful and unnecessary invasive testing and exams by getting real information out there, so women can make informed decisions & even up the power dynamic a bit.
I’m reporting him to the appropriate authorities. It was definitely a power trip. He got angry with me because I refused to answer him or even talk to him. At that point, in hindsight, I should have left the room.
Click to access nurse-pap-clinical-practice-guidelines.pdf
Gail
Some information on medical misconduct and unprofessional conduct – it will also, refer you back to the relevant Regulations
I have good news. And news that will make us all think. You may, I hope, hear news that a chronic pain doctor named Naga Raga Thota MD, of San Diego (his clinic is in La Mesa, a suburb), has been arrested and is facing 20 years. Believe me, I was posolutely thrilled to see this on the night news. I screamed for my hubby to come running to the tv. We both despise this doctor. Seeing his face on tv was both good (for this reason) and a bit traumatic (memories).
I was his patient; albeit some 15yrs ago. He was creepy then too. He was very over-controlling regarding issuing prescriptions for pain meds. Meaning, he would put patients through extreme hardship practically making them wait until the last pill consumed before providing a new Rx. He even once remarked that he didn’t care if an earthquake hit, disrupting his patient’s access to meds. Nobody would be able to reach him in that circumstance, so he didn’t care about complaints.
Thota’s bedside manner sucked. His conversations strayed way to far into our private lives. Due to my father and my work superiors bullying me, I could not stand up for myself nor even speak for myself against an authority figure. My husband refused to tolerate how Thota talked down to me. Thota threatened to fire me as his patient if I didn’t control my husband; while my husband, as respectfully as possible, repeatedly stood up to Thota emphasizing where professional boundaries were and that Thota was not to cross them.
His office is close to a shopping center we use. Going back years, outside normal business hours we’d drive past his building noticing his car and one other in the parking lot.
There has been enormous wear and tear on our marriage because of my husband feeling it necessary to protect me. There’s always consequences, and more often than not hubby gets his hands slapped. This time however, I’m both grateful and fortunate.
Thota is facing 20 years incarceration. Going back to at least 2013. He has been using meds as bait to lure women into sex. He gets’ them hooked, even has given them meds for family members, and then forced these women into sexual liaisons. Some patients ended up on heroin. Seeing this vulture arrested is a very good thing. It could have been me.
What pisses me off most however, is that it’s extremely difficult for a legit patient who requires these meds to find a doctor who will prescribe them. Especially name brand as generics don’t work for me.
What’s neat, in a way a compliment not realized before now, is the reason Thota fired me. He gripped that I was difficult but particularly ragged about my husband who got between doctor and patient in conversations too many times.
Our psychologist had been working with me, for years trying to get me to stick up for myself.
Husband, thank you!
The bad part of my message is this. We have been doing research on message. Although we don’t need to be told this, as our bodies tell us loud and clear, I wanted to clarify a few things about the bimanual exam. Why is it that:
Our nipples are squeezed? Our g-spot messaged? Our anterior cervical fornix messaged? Our posterior cervical fornix messaged via the rectovaginal or rectal? Our cervix messaged?
Per the yoni or tantric message, we have connections between these organs and our energy sources, our hearts, and our orgasms.
There is a medium or connection between our cervix and heart.
A medium or connection between our breasts and our yoni. You know what I mean.
To enjoy one of these messages, one must be totally relaxed, breathing matched with the person who will be doing the message, and a total body message is done first. Both parties could be naked. It’s a long process involving trust and relaxation. Orgasms can occur as knots are messaged out of our yonis. These often times take hours.
During a pelvic exam, all of the above happens within 5 minutes. Or 10 minutes if the girl/woman is attractive to the medical care provider. Every sexual “turn-on” switch is touched, fingered, stimulated, even those our partners may not be able to reach during sex.
No wonder why we can go to unfiltered sites and read how so many of us feel raped. How intimacy with our innocent husbands is permanently disturbed but we don’t know why or how to fix it. Husband and wife no longer get along and eventually divorce. We have long felt pap/pelvics had something to do with this. [plus creeps like Thota]
We leave these exams wet, violated, aroused but feeling betrayed, angry, and this gets vented at home. Ladies, we must keep applying pressure to get these exams changed.
If I could, I’d personally hug and thank every patient having courage to stand up against Thota. Without my husband protecting me, I’d have been another name on the wall.
Thanks for your patience reading this. Please reprint on the other sites.
Gail
I’m Australian too…was it your regular GP who treated you so disgracefully?
I went doctor shopping many years ago, found a GP I could work with, made my decision clear, and thankfully, that’s it. I don’t receive reminders (I’m not on the register) and the topic is never mentioned by my GP…subject closed. Occasionally, a locum has mentioned the lack of my pap test history, so many just assume we have pap testing (or should be having them) but at this stage, I have no problem dealing with the Q, it’s swiftly dispensed with, never had one, never intend to have one. (I’m 58)
I avoided GPs for years but decided in my 30s that I was entitled to see a doctor without being pressured to have an ELECTIVE screening test. It’s a disgrace the way women are treated, pressured and misled into this testing, with little regard for consent, let alone informed consent. The law and proper ethical standards make clear informed consent is a must for all cancer screening, we’re free to decline and we don’t have to explain ourselves to anyone. Sadly, too many doctors get away with herding and pressuring women into testing and too few women understand the test is not a MUST or SHOULD, but optional.
All the best…definitely time to look for a new doctor.
Yes, a regular GP. Well, actually an irregular one, really. He’s perverted. The letter to the proper authorities goes today. I’m going back to my old doctor I had before, when I was younger. Back home, I call it, where I know I’ll be safe. He’ll help my husband and I deal with this terrible thing that Dr Evil did. Gail
I would like to tell any woman who is getting these letters continually to get pap tests, there is usually a method to contact the registry and stop the letters. It is perfectly legal to refuse any medical test or procedure. I not longer receive any letters for any cancer screenings: cervical, breast, colon. I do not feel as if I will drop dead of cancer at any minute. I have read too many studies.
The same happens with mammograms. They don’t just send one letter. You also get texts. The pressure is huge. I just read that after 65 they stop sending them. I’m 64. I didn’t need it. I certainly did not need the pelvic exam done. I have no issues or pain. This guy will be investigated once the proper authorities get the letter. I’m doing this for my younger friends who see him and all woman kind. Freaks like him have to be stopped. Gail
The pressure to have breast screening will ramp up, they haven’t been able to get anywhere near the target and more women are choosing not to screen. I think that’s partly why they opened up the program to women aged 71-74.
You can contact the screening registry or Breast Screen and ask to be removed, I did that as soon as the first “invitation” arrived…no, thanks
I’ve found doctors are not as fussed about breast screening but there was talk of introducing financial incentives there as well, so we might see attitudes change, a new focus on the “importance” of breast screening.
Gail, interesting the Australian GP did a pelvic exam as well, he must be out of date on top of his other serious failings, the routine pelvic exam has not been recommended here in many years.
sorry to hear how you were treated. i would of run out the door.
I would find out if this Dr has had any complaints Maybe file a police report. Most Dr’s offices
have cameras. This Dr needs investigating,
i will never have gyn exam again!
After many yrs, of being traumatized , and no diagnosis , i decided i won’t suffer anymore.
We need to keep refusing this abusive exam!
Hi Diane
I hope to get justice. I’m reporting him to the proper authorities and he will be investigated. He’s in his 50’s, there has to be a paper trail of previous victims. He’s only 1 step higher then a child molester. I think I should have run too, but too afraid that he could actually physically hurt me should I try, plus you’re so confused at what’s happening because you trust this person. I just wanted it to be over, so I could go. He won’t expect me to file a complaint against him. Too arrogant, and picked me because he saw me as compliant. Predators like him make people trust them n like them n everyone else like them. So friendly etc. I can only report him n see what happens. I won’t let this freak ruin the rest of my life. Gail
glad you are reporting him. he is like a molester. Just uses a ” white coat” to stalk his victims.
i’m glad you wont let him ruin you. i suffered for too long. I think they picked me cause i am small
and very anxious at drs office,
I stand up against any procedure or medication I am not comfortable with.
sorry to say us medical system only cares about making money on procedures or prescribing drugs.
if someone gets well, they lose money. Dr’s want you coming back! That is my opinion.
I live florida where my addicts needing help are taken advantage of and people are making thousands!
you are in my prayers
diane
Hi Diane
Thank you for your support. I’m in Australia. These doctors groom their patients much like child molesters groom their victims. He picked me because he thought I was weak. I have anxiety n depression issues. These men who molest older women are freaks. An absolute freak. I thought, in my old age I’d be safe. If you’re a woman, you’re “prey” . That’s how I look at it. Gail
i have anxiety too. yep never safe/
It wasn’t my first pap test ,but my doctor said I had some fun healthy cells ,so she mad me a appointment with a colostomy clinic,so I went to get check , I didn’t feel right cause the nurse left the I was on the table with my legs in the stirups then the doctor told me to hold open my Virginia, I couldn’t see what he was doing to me all I know it hurt me so bad that I was crying an he said oh come on it don’t hurt that bad,then when he the nurse came back in and he left,then she said I can get dressed now and left the room, as i I was leaving the client the both standing in the hallway and said to bye have a good day, I still had tears coming down my face it me me ever day,I know I should of reported it right there and then,But I didn’t think anyone would believe me so I kept it to myself.what should I do?
Report it now. It won’t be easy. I’ve just reported what happened to me. If you tell the truth with absolute conviction you will be believed. I don’t know which country you’re in. You have to look after yourself first, and part of looking after yourself is reporting it. Here, that report is forever against the doctors name, even if there’s just a complaint. You’re allowed to make a complaint. That complaint sits there, n there will be other complaints, it makes a pattern. Then the authorities can do something. So sorry this has happened to you. I understand exactly. Xx
Oh, me, oh, my, I was sure that there had to be other women like me. I am actually overwhelmed by the number of comments here though.
I am an insulin-dependent diabetic who also has glaucoma. I dread seeking the help that I need in order to stay alive and not blind from glaucoma in the eye that I am not yet blind in because so many doctors or nurse-practitioners think that being a “well-woman” is simply a matter of being raped with metal. I have quite a lot that I could say about my experiences as a result, but just thinking about getting out of the upcoming “well-woman” exam with the nurse-practitioner who prescribed my last insulin makes me think that I might just rather die from lack of insulin or taking the whole bottle tonight and ending it all in about half an hour than showing up for that appointment. I do understand the trauma of those whose comments I have read here do far. Doctors using us for their agenda is detrimental to our health.
I’m glad this article is here, as I don’t feel so alone and “silly” knowing that the way I’m currently feeling after having a smear yesterday isn’t completely unreasonable! I’m 26 and I’ve been avoiding the cervical cancer screening for the past two years simply out of embarrassment, but I finally took some responsibility for my health and thought that once I had gone through it then I would realise it was nothing and it wouldn’t bother me next time. The thing is, even though it was a straightforward smear and over in five minutes without any funny business, I still can’t help but feel like I’ve been violated. Every time I think about it, it makes my skin crawl, and I hate the way having the procedure has made me feel like nothing more than a piece of meat, just another vagina to be prodded and poked. I keep telling myself to pull myself together and be an adult about it, and that it’s for my own good to keep an eye on potential cancerous cells, but I’m definitely feeling somewhat traumatised by the experience. I was also in some pain and more bleeding than I expected following the procedure, which led to further anxiety as all of the articles I had read beforehand said there should be no pain.
Thank you for sharing this article and helping to put my mind at ease!
Condolences to the both of you. I totally understand where you are coming from.
But neither of you have to have a smear again if you choose not to. The propaganda and awareness campaigns have confitioned us all to think that this is something we should all just put up with without question or good reason.
I have never accepted this reasoning or accepted that this testing should just be a part of my life. And you can both do the same. I guarantee that if this is what you want, it will make you feel far better.
I encourage you both to research the risk of false positives and false negatives around cervical screening. I was shocked when I first found out that cervical cancer is actually rare. It is said that around 900 women a year die from it per year, and half of those have allegedly been screened!
I have read that on average, only 12 – 30% of those who receive a CIN III diagnosis will go on to develop cervical cancer (the proportion is lesser still for CIN I snd CIN II diagnoses), yet 100% of CIN III diagnosed patients will be at risk of receiving potentially harmful, unnecessary laser treatment for something that might never have harmed them
The problem os that the media and the medical profession mislead women. Most women tend to view any reported “abnormal” cell changes as pre-cancerous cells, when in reality, those changes are actually normal, hormonal changes.
You will also read of smears failing to pick up changes associated with full blown cancer. This is because the smear is totally hopeless at picking up any changes associated with adenocarcinoma (a rarer form of cervical cancer), and in many cases, squamous cell carcinoma. The women with cervical cancer will often ignore worrisome symptoms because their smear was clear and nurses will falsely reassure them that they have nothing to worry about.
Wilfully refusing to educate women about the signs and symptoms of cervical cancer is reprehensible in the extreme, but many medical professionals still do it and tell women that screening is the only way to protect them from developing cervical cancer. This keeps women ignorant and ensures their compliance with the screening programme.
The powers that be are trying to mitigate the poor efficacy of smears by introducing primary HPV testing. And while this does improve efficacy, not every area does it and what’s more, this does not change the ptocedure for women – they still have to undergo a humiliating screening procedure.
But guess what? A DIY self-testing kit IS available to screen women aged over 30 (screening does not benefit women below this age) for HPV – which is the pre-cursor to squamous cell carcinoma (just google the Delphi screener) but the NHS certainly don’t want women to know about it. But most of us here take every opportunity to raise awareness of this on comments sections of the Daily Mail whenever the subject rears its ugly head in a health article.
I urge you to do your research and make an INFORMED DECISION about screening, whether that may be to continue to screen or not.
Once again, the NHS doesn’t want you to know about inforned consent.
If you want to refuse screening and be withdrawn from the screening programme, write a firm letter to your screening authority telling them that you wish to be withdrawn from their register. Tell them that you don’t CONSENT to cervical screening – and tell your GP/ nurse the same if they persist to bring up screening in the consult room.
CONSENT is a very important word in the medical setting. No consent = no procedure.
They are obliged by law to accept your decision to withdraw or withhold consent as you see fit.
This may not be easy but if you wish to refuse screening, try to summon up the courage to stand up to your GP and for yourself. It is well worth it.
Here’s what “Pathologist” wrote on 9/27 in The Sydney Morning Herald regarding a story whining about Australia changing first pap exam to 25yrs age.
“This is written by a poorly informed patient. A very small number of precancers turn to cancer and they shouldn’t be called that. The writer says she had precancer which is very different to real cancer. She had dysplasiawhich is very common and in the vast majority of cases resolves. Most CIN1 and CIN2 resolve w/o treatment. Even CIN3 does most of the time. Cervical cancer is an old woman’s disease b/c it does usually take 10yrs to develop. On the other hand dysplasia in young women is very common. The ratio of CC for a woman in her early 20’s is 1.6 per 100,000.
The highest rate is women over 85yrs.
https://cervicalcancer:canceraustralia.gov.au.statistics
Leave the advice to the expderts. Too many young women were having surgery on “precancers” that would have spontaneously reverted to normal. they then developed an incompetent cervix and had miscarriages. The new guidelines were correct.”
Tell a friend. Yell it to lawmakers.
[…] https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/01/02/psychological-harms-of-pelvic-exams/ […]
Hey, I’ve linked your article here to my recent blog post (https://theherdlesswitch.wordpress.com/2016/10/11/can-rape-be-subjective-my-childbirth-experience/). I just wanted to thank you for even having this blog. It was a blessing when I came upon it!
With love
Meno ❤
Thanks for the great feedback and link Meno! Your post struck a chord and provides comfort too. I’m glad we found each other 🙂
Sue
I found you quite a while ago, before I even started this blog, so I was actually surprised when I went back to link your post and found out it was wordpress. I wanted to comment and tell my story before, but I guess I’ve just been a mess up until now, I’m starting to pull myself together finally.
Thank you kindly for replying to my comment and link, I can’t tell you what it means to me to not be alone in this!
Many blessings
Meno<3
Thank you for sharing your story Meno. I can identify with it completely and I truly feel for you.
It is now over 30 years since my last baby was born, but I still carry the psychological trauma of my experiences of pregnancy and childbirth. I still inwardly shudder when I see a pregnant woman and I avoid any pregnancy and childbirth related programmes on the TV. Knowing that 99percent of what they did to me was unnecessary still fuels my anger. I avoid the medical profession now, and will do so for as long as I can. Their cavalier attitude to the female body is the cause of so much trauma. They cannot or will not understand that for many women, a vaginal exam feels like sexual assault. But there is no recognition of this, on the contrary women are blamed for being ‘silly’ and not wanting to submit to this type of ‘care’.
I have been helped immensely by finding other women who can understand and empathise and will remain eternally grateful to Sue for this website and all the other amazing ladies who share their thoughts here.
Thank you Chrissy! I’m glad I was finally able to share this, and I hope this along with other women’s stories will not only help those hurting, but eventually change things.
Many blessings dear!
Meno<3
Welcome Meno
I see parallels between pregnancy/childbirth and cancer screening, we’re rarely listened to, the system takes over, others make decisions for us and assume risk on our behalf.
Also, there’s a cone of silence, the system makes women feel uncomfortable saying anything negative about childbirth or pap testing. Some women fear being judged or trivialized, we’re TOLD a healthy baby is all that matters in the end or a normal pap test or mammogram.
I’ve always believed the system/medical profession view women as second class citizens, our legal rights don’t really matter, they know best…wrong!
It’s interesting that occasionally when women feel safe, the truth emerges, sometimes followed by an apology or put down, “I know I’m being silly, but I couldn’t understand why there were so many people standing there watching me give birth”.
So all the natural and normal feelings we have about our bodily autonomy, privacy and dignity are often lumped together as women being immature, prudish, difficult or perhaps, victims of sexual abuse. We’re so often denied these normal feelings, we’re supposed to be okay allowing open access to our genitals and breasts when the system demands it from us.
Over the years I’ve heard it so often, certainly, in later years, perhaps because women sensed I might have a sympathetic ear.
My husband and I decided not to have children, I’m pleased to say that fear did not make that decision for me, I know that’s the case for some women. Of course, I would have approached a pregnancy fearing the worst and hoping for the best. I’d selected an ob-gyn just in case, she was highly recommended by several friends – she was a good doctor, she listened, she didn’t judge, she worked with women and she respected their privacy (as far as possible considering the system often couldn’t care less)
You’re certainly not alone, but it must feel that way when so many women still IMO, feel like they must just accept poor and disrespectful treatment, just get over it…
I don’t think you can claim the system is a huge success when a healthy baby leaves the hospital with a damaged mother, and we know some damage lasts forever; both physical, psychological and emotional damage.
Sites like Birth Trauma help but they’re not really out there, we don’t hear much about this issue anywhere else. It’s the old cone of silence that keeps this abuse in place, but it’s not easy to change attitudes and conduct. I’ve always believed with cancer screening it starts with individual women saying, “No, this is not good enough, I’m a human being, not a body or a target”…
It’s interesting that the system assumes after giving birth we shouldn’t have a care in the world with pap testing, surely we’re “used” to these exams by now (or we should be if we’re “normal”)
The reasoning is self-serving, they want compliant women so we need to get over any issues with pap testing, “how will they manage when they have children?”….and if you’ve had children, “well what’s the issue?”…
So it says to me the system is basically saying women should forget about bodily autonomy, privacy and dignity, it’s supposed to be that our health (and that of our baby) is more important.
I think it’s more that the system does not respect women and the current approach suits and is accepted by many…so many can’t see the wood for the trees. Consent? Informed consent?
I think writing about your experience will help you and other women – much more needs to be said about the unacceptable way women are viewed and treated by the system
All the best
Elizabeth, thank you so much for bringing up another important issue with your reference to “birth trauma”. Same as women are supposed to be casual about invasive exams and having childbirth treated like a sideshow, birth trauma doesn’t end in the maternity ward for victims of domestic violence.
Women who are pregnant or who have recently given birth are often under incredible pressure to give up their babies. The leading cause of death for pregnant women is murder by the men who got them pregnant, including men these pregnant women are married to so it isn’t just a matter of covering up some affair with a pregnant mistress. Women who would do fine as mothers if they had a little help to leave abusive relationships are expected to have babies and then just give them away like their flesh and blood was nothing to them while being told that it was what was best for the baby.
Frightened battered women are told that some organization will “provide housing” for them. What happens, of course, is that these women are pestered to within inches of their sanity about adoption and what a wonderful “choice” it is. Not that these women are actually being given any choice because the whole point of the “free housing” is to isolate them from anyone who might talk to them about alternatives to lining the pockets of the “counselors”. The possibly of relatives adopting the baby or taking care of the baby for a little while while the mother gets on her feet, with adoption by strangers being reserved for children actually in need of loving homes would just get in the way of the transaction with the strangers lucrative to the “counselors”, who would appreciate payment now please. The fact that the women surrendering against their will most likely never see their children again and often suffer from Post-Traumatic Shock Disorder is not treated as any big deal because adoption is “win-win”. Yeah, well, it is win-win-lose because the person who gives up someone her body has nurtured gets nothing but the pain of loss unless she suffers the vilification reserved for the “selfish” whores who won’t sign away her parental rights.
I have a pdf I downloaded some time ago about the new cervical cancer screening guidelines from the cancer council in Australia. Anyway, I happened to have a look at it and I am appalled.It says that “women who are invited to have a clinician collected sample(HPV test) and decline will not be eligible for self-collection at that time”. OK so a woman’s HPV status is not really that important after all. A doctor collecting their fee is more important. And it says “women who have tested negative on a self-collected sample should be invited to be retested 5 years later and they should be encouraged to have a clinician collect the sample” . “Encouraged”. Oh and how to they do that? Withhold BCPs?
Hi Mary
Yes, more of the same…
I read a women would have to decline the invasive HPV test for 6 years before she’s be eligible for HPV self-testing. Of course, the angle used is predictable, self-testing is not as reliable as a sample taken by a physician. So they say…
I don’t think the self-test option (covered by Medicare) will be the Delphi Screener so perhaps, it’s correct that it’s less reliable than a sample taken by a doctor. (I doubt that though…you’re either HPV+ or HPV-, it’s not like interpreting a pap smear)
The cost of the self-test kit would be a factor but also, if the HPV self-test were promoted as just as reliable as the invasive test, I suspect they’d be a landrush of women after the self-test option. They clearly hope to keep the herd in-tact and just move them over to HPV invasive testing.
They’ve gone out of their way to cut into online self-testing options, so now if you want to order (and pay) for the Delphi Screener, you have to nominate an Aussie doctor. I’m not sure if they get your results and you have to speak to them, I assume that’s the case, so they get something out of it, keep the woman in the loop, and have an opportunity to dissuade her from further self-testing.
Vested interests have been making a fortune from this testing so they won’t give that up lightly. Also, the same old attitudes are at work, women are still viewed as fair game, bodies to be ticked off
There’s no doubt in my mind that the only women who’ll see HPV self-testing are those who buy the test online, or use it overseas or those who stand firm and wait out the 6 years. They obviously want to limit the offer to hard-core refusers, anyone currently in the program will be pressured to stay there…so self-testing will be used reluctantly to try and increase coverage. (probably with the hope they’ll move them over to invasive testing at some stage)
It’s probably aimed at people like ME….but the reality is the group of women who’ve never screened or those who’ve dropped out of the program, have often made an informed and/or firm decision…and they certainly won’t be tempted by the offer.
I’d view it as a hungry wolf offering me a chocolate!
Mary
In the UK they’re making the right noises, obviously to placate informed women and a few others like Dr. McCartney but I don’t think much will change at the Clinic (unless you’re informed)
Here we’re not even making the right noises, there is no discussion about choice or opting out etc. it’s all must or should, counting us off like ignorant sheep.
I find it incredible that we had to wait until 2016 before someone thought about writing an article on informed consent in cervical screening. The thinking: well, we’re changing the program, perhaps, we should also, consider informed consent.
Almost like it’s an optional extra, no one seems outraged that women have been denied both consent and informed consent under our program
I suspect we’re still a long way behind the UK, and other countries…even the States is starting to take the Pill off script. I doubt that will happen here, that consult is an effective way to capture women for the program, it doesn’t seem to matter that it’s supposed to be elective and it’s never been a clinical requirement for the Pill. I’m not sure why change is so slow here, perhaps, because most women here just accept this testing is a necessary evil, the downside to being a woman.
I think Elizabeth that here in Australia doctors have a lot of power over politicians. I mean how is it that the law says that we are only allowed to import medication prescribed by an Australian doctor? Give me one good reason why a UK doctor, who is allowed to work in Australia cannot prescribe me medication when in the UK? As Paul Keating said, the medical profession is the strongest union in Australia, It’s very frustrating how relaxed Europe is with prescribing but when you indicate you are from Australia on these websites, then it becomes almost impossible and more and more UK pharmacies are not sending medications to Australia. I wonder if they have got wind of more and more people doing this are have clamped down. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is surveillance going on.
With hpv self-testing it’s again vested interests not letting women have any autonomy. If the Danes ( I think ) have moved to making self-HPV testing the standard way to screen for cervical cancer then don’t tell me it is an inferior way to test. They wouldn’t put lives at risk. It’s a total different mindset in Europe.
And then again look at the medical marijuana laws. People have to break the law or suffer. And don’t me started on euthanasia. God we are backwards here.
Mary,
It’s incredibly frustrating, my younger brother has Parkinson’s Disease, cannabis oil makes a big difference to his quality of life but to get it in this country, you need lots of money and a reliable dealer!
He may eventually get some through the Victorian Govt but that’s not likely to be for a year or so. Thankfully, they’ve started supplying it for children with severe epilepsy
Some of these kids have permanent brain damage as a result of the seizures and to think the system stood in the way for so long. Hopefully, this damage will be avoided in the future.
I know some people are against using cannabis for medical conditions, stem cell research/procedures and euthanasia, but I think it’s unfair to stand in the way when people are suffering. We should just get on with it, put the safeguards in place, we can use other countries there, learn from their experience.
I worked out a long time ago that, “we have to do our own research for local conditions, we can’t just follow Finland” meant, butt out, we’re happy with the current program, it works for US! So few seem to Q the clear stalling measures and desperate need for medical control though…
I think you’re right, the medical union is all powerful and couldn’t care less about us, patient care comes way behind control, market size and profitability.
It’s good business but bad medicine…
I suppose talking about the Delphi Screener on Aussie sites may have tipped them off that WE were aware of something better, it seems getting the message out to women also alerts the system to slam shut another gate.
I have thought these sentiments for decades. But this is the first time I have seen them articulated. Thank you so much for stating what has been obvious to women for years: the so called “pelvic” exam is little more than a ritual rape. Further, what were female docs thinking in medical school? They were trained to perform this ritual rape by male professors; why were women in med school so daft and weak that they never spoke up and called these male rapists on the carpet??? Instead, they built careers propagating this rape, in the name of “women’s wellness.” Does everyone know what the number one killer of women is? Heart disease. But how many women schedule an annual visit to a cardiologist? You should. I would gladly say FUCK YOU to my nice but clueless gyn, but the system is such that I depend on her for my hormone prescriptions. Otherwise I’d put an end to the annual rapes I must endure.
Welcome Shelli – You could put an end to the annuals as it is your right to refuse and to threaten you by withholding any medication whatsoever is simply not legal/ethical – Why not threaten them with going to the authorities with a complaint….the gyn will be very quick to give you your meds to avoid the complaint. Worth a try. No-one should be put through that by force by any means, your body your rules, no decision about you without you.
You can sometimes get birth control (and maybe other medicine) from psychiatrists. I’m guessing you’re in the UK & I’m in the US, but it might work that way there.
Maybe explaining that there is a detrimental effect from extrapersonally comported penetration which happen yet NOT occur in a medical setting. The term “iatrogenic assault” isn’t well-known, but “medical attack” is usually clear enough. After all, properties don’t change by designation- just like how if a doctor poisons someone with a needle, it’s still murder. This is true with other things, as well (imposed interfaces with sexual areas, for instance).
I know that, on some levels, America tends to be very favorable toward things getting strange- especially if it’s done with subtlety. I don’t know if it’s like that where you are, but it’s one of the reasons I want to leave this country. Actually, I notice that there is a large propensity toward trying to “crawl into other people’s skin” here. I’ve also noticed that when someone wants to crawl into someone else’s skin figuratively, they tend to make somewhat literal attempts.
I am in the USA , Alex. You definitely bring up some thought provoking ideas!
Thanks, Shelli. If you want some more, there’s Birth as an American Rite Of Passage by Robbie E. Davis-Floyd. It’s a mistake to think that someone’s psychology isn’t a factor in their assessments & decision-making. This is true with work & the theories that get dispensed AT work (by someone or a group of someones- their psychology would be present).
Shelli
You can get the Pill from the pharmacy in California and Oregan and other States will follow, so might be worth a trip.
Also, the only clinical requirements for the Pill is your medical history and a blood pressure test. Routine pelvic and breast exams are not recommended in symptom-free women and more likely to harm you. Pap testing should be offered to the roughly 5% of women aged 30 to 60 who test HPV+…everyone else is not at risk and cannot benefit from pap testing (but can be harmed)
You can self-test for HPV too…
It’s concerning that some doctors are still linking potentially harmful excess to the consult for the Pill, more should be done to stop this unacceptable conduct. Taking the Pill off script is well overdue…they don’t require men to have a colonoscopy before they can have Viagra, do they?
Or a quick feel of the testicles….
Thank you all for the comments. I am in my 50s and post menopausal. I’ve been ensuring these ritual rapes for decades, and I’m sick of it. But I do hormone replacement therapy for menopause symptoms (the herbal stuff didn’t work for me), and if I refuse to let my dr molest me, she’ll likely kick me out of her practice. I wish I could get my hormones without having to go through that nonsense.
Hi Shelli
That’s horrible, I was lucky, managed to get through menopause with no meds, it was uncomfortable for about 2 years. I made a decision I’d only go down the HRT path of it became intolerable, thankfully, I didn’t get to that point.
I know women who use HRT, they’re reminded/pressured to have pap tests and mammograms, but apart from that, think it’s only a blood pressure test and a review of their symptoms/status. A friend told her doctor straight that she wasn’t having pap tests, HPV- women can’t benefit and would not be having mammograms – sometimes it’s a Q of finding the right doctor. I know it’s harder to change your doctor in the States, but would it be worth an email, sound her out…or finding someone else?
Click to access HRT_Initial_consultation_PatientUK.pdf
“Blood pressure.
Height and weight.
Other examination as indicated by the history (routine vaginal/bimanual examination is not required).”
Of course, they mention this consult can include health promotion like pap testing and breast screening, but they’re not clinical requirements for HRT
They also, mention breast self-exams, they’re not recommended here at all, at any age…it’s breast awareness now.
Can I ask this? What exactly is HRT (hormone replacement therapy) for? I am 51 and somehwat finished with menstrual periods for not wuite a year. Sure I get cranky and sometimes hot but otherwise I am not dying. So I am ok somewhat would some woman like me need HRT for?
Hi Moo
Some women have a difficult time with menopause and find HRT offers some relief from the hot flushes, sweating, insomnia, mood swings, muscle pain, menstrual issues etc.
I know women who went onto HRT fairly early, in their mid to late 40s and stayed on it for many years, others used it for a couple of years. Some GPs push it, others are more cautious – my GP understood my reluctance, I was also, unsure about the association between breast cancer and HRT. (so was she)
Anyway, apart from a couple of minor annoyances, I’m over the worst (fingers crossed)
I was lucky that my periods just got lighter and lighter and then stopped for a couple of months, another light one…and then after about 8 months with a light period every month or two, that was it.
A friend had awful flooding, some of these women opt for HRT until this unpleasant and inconvenient phase passes.
So I consider myself one of the lucky ones…
My mother had no issues at all, menopause was a breeze for her, we’re all different.
It’s a natural process, not a disease – that’s the way I view it, just like menstruation and pregnancy.
So the hot flashes and all symptoms can go away after the menses stop totally? Or is it for many years adter periods stop?
My experience was more like yours Elizabeth. I had light periods but they were weird (sparing the details). So far it all stopped but but I still get hot and achy. It could be due to some other health problem.
I used to ger very itchy but I stopped using anti-acid stomach meds and anti histamines and took vitamin B, mulit vitamin and licorce root (dgl) for the stomach. Mostly the insomnia is due to being hot so I wear less to bed and an eye mask (due to security lights at the neigbouring building).
It varies, Moo…
I get the impression most women continue to have temperature issues etc. for a few years after they say goodbye to menstruation. It’s been 5-6 years for me and it’s only been the last 12 months that the temperature thing has settled down. (it was very uncomfortable for 2 years)
I’m continuing to have skin issues, my older sister is too, we now have very sensitive skin, the products I’ve used for many years are out, my skin can’t tolerate them anymore. I’ve also, had some minor menopausal acne, not really pimples but painful blind spots that take ages to go away – it’s male pattern too, so around the mouth and jawline. The acne is caused by hormonal fluctuations, too much of the male stuff.
After the temperature issues and/or joint pain, mood swings, insomnia etc. improve, some women are left with skin and other issues simply because they’re post-menopausal.
The skin gets thinner, skin eruptions/cuts/burns take much longer to heal and are more likely to scar…
A workmate started taking HRT and noticed an immediate improvement in her skin, the dryness disappeared, skin eruptions and dermatitis are gone too, but I’m not prepared to take the risk with HRT. I’m trying a few things on my skin, it’s slow progress – but I’m moving in the right direction.
I’m sleeping better now and that helps a lot, the years of broken sleep and insomnia combined with temperature fluctuations all day left me exhausted and irritable – I always felt grubby too from the sweating. (I’d take a spare shirt to work)
Thankfully, that stage probably lasted for 2 years, but some women struggle with these issues for 10 years or even longer. I can see why some choose to take HRT…even for a couple of years.
Elizabeth if there is no family history of breast cancer I think HRT is pretty safe. Also the study that was done in 2002 that scared thousands of women away was only done on women using Premarin. There are other types of HRT that may be safe. For example, oestradiol valerate converts to exactly the same hormone our body produces. Maybe you could try topical oestrogen for your skin.
It’s a personal choice but as the only cancer in my family is bowel cancer, (not familial though) and HRT is supposed to protect against bowel cancer, I probably will consider HRT.
Hi Mary
I should look into it really, I tend to stay away from the medical profession unless it’s absolutely necessary.
I’ve discussed it with my GP, she also said heart disease was a concern, and there’s a family history of that…not breast cancer.
I tend not to raise these topics because you can often open a hornet’s nest. My sister’s friend also had acne in her 50s, her GP referred her to a gynecologist to discuss HRT – that poor woman endured a bimanual pelvic exam and TVU – apparently, looking for an ovarian cyst or ovarian cancer.
This is why I tend to put up with things, or look for something I can manage myself, but I’ll definitely do some research. Thanks for the information
Oh …. premarin. Made fom pregnant mare urine… so appealing. I would rather have my little hot episodes. I do not feel too bad. No HRT for me.
Thanks for the explanation.
There is not enough info about normal natural menopause on the internet.
Moo, if your menopause symptoms diminishes your quality of life, you can look into bio-identical HRT. Instead of premarin and provera which are lab created synthetic molecules, bio-identical HRT uses real estrogen and progesterone as they’re made by human ovaries, they extract them from plants, soy or flax I think, so no pregnant horse pee!
Bio-identical hormones don’t seem as harmful as the traditional prem-pro stuff, and the big 2002 Women’s health initiative study was made with prem-pro, and they discovered that breast cancer risk increases slightly with women taking provera along with premarin. But there doesn’t seem to be any increase of cancer or heart disease with the bio-identical hormones. They aren’t widely known since they can’t be patent, which is the case with prem-pro as they’re lab created molecules, while the bio-identical can be found in nature. In Quebec there’s an MD who makes lots of research on menopause, Sylvie Demers, who published a very good book about bio-identical hormones, unfortunately it’s only in French but I found a few articles about her in English : http://qcdaily.com/essential-hormones/765/
I would definitely chose bio-identical HRT when I reach menopause if I get bad symptoms, but it should be each woman’s decision if she wants to take hormones or not, as long as she get informed consent about all the different type of HRT available.
Here’s an English power point Demers made that pretty much sums up her book on bio-identical HRT, she explains why the WHI study was badly interpreted by doctors and media and the differences between prem-pro and bio-identical HRT and the bio-identical meds currently available, I think she uses this material to give training session to MDs to teach them how to prescribe adequate bio-identical HRT :
http://slideplayer.com/slide/10246391/
Also, Dr John Lee and his work on progesterone is pretty interesting as well, as he explained the many benefits of progesterone on the female body and how it affects women throughout menopause, because a lot of health care folks think it’s only useful for pregnancy.
A lot of the medical establishment are ignorant about the benefits of estrogen and progesterone on the well being of women during their whole lives, not just menopause, and it’s partly due to the lack of education on it while they’re in medical school I think. It shows by how badly women are treated, either their symptoms are dismissed and told to live with them, or they’re prescribed prem-pro when a safer and more efficient alternative could be offered to them.
Thanks for the info Miso99. I truly believe women’s menopausal complaints are often dismissed by doctors and they are treated as though they just should put up with it. It’s a woman’s choice whether she wants HRT, it shouldn’t be up to the Dr to decide. No doctor would tell a man to put up with erectile dysfunction.
Thanks all for the comments. I was taking vitex herb for about two years and I stopped. I might try something else.
I read that fat tissue stores estrogen so women who are obese might have a more difficult time. Birth control pills for decades with a one dose fit all sizes is going to have some women difficult for their body to remove all the hormones and adjust to lowering levels.
I cannot think that all older women’s health problems are hormonal and some “pill” will fix them. “It’s never too late to start HRT”. Yeah. Get the customers for life. I would rather just get some herbal based capsules at a health food store and maybe eat flax seed or soy.
I was raped at a young age and sometimes I have somatic pain in my belly. I had a pelvic exam or pap one time and I was asked if I would allow some medical students in the exam room while the procedure or procedures were being done. During the exam it hurt really bad (like no other exam) and I cried out. I did a Google search before coming across this because my belly was hurting and I happened to remember this. Another time a doctor that I trusted was doing a pelvic exam and didn’t use any gloves. Both have troubled me over the years but definitely the more so the latter of the two.
Hi MsMeagon Pack:
Welcome to our site. You have my deepest sympathies. What happened to you is very disheartening. Please don’t let it define you. Don’t let men or women who see your vulnerability and pain from this take advantage of you. Hopefully you’ve found some measure of support and comfort in finding our site and knowing that you’re far from alone. I hope you have friends and family and even a counselor that you can trust and open up to. And remember that we’re here too. Hopefully, after reading all of the information here, you’ll never go back for another so-called regular exam. I think, if I may say so, that they realized your vulnerable state and in their coldness figured that they could take advantage. Their motive is to get paid by building you into their clientele. I wonder, Girls who are molested; and I believe this is what these gyns did to you; unfortunately are targets as their self esteem has been lowered to think that they have to submit to people – men – who want access to their genitals. Please remember this even in your personal life, too. These gyn’s who took advantage of you – used no gloves – and allowed people you’ve never seen in life to stare at your private area may get their punishment in hell, yet. It’s so easy for me to get preachy, MsMeagon Pack, please excuse me. And I started not to respond in order to not offend you. However, you’ve compelled me to speak to you. I just want to inform you to ensure you that you 1. know that what happened isn’t your fault. You were taken advantage of by practiced professionals and you have my deepest sympathies and 2. are educated against going back.
I notice for those women and girls who have been assaulted it’s mind over matter. It depends on the woman or girl and her resilience. Those that realize that it’s not their fault and that they are more than what happened to them – are those that manage to survive. I see women who’ve had one terrible assault and are ready for suicide. (I pray this isn’t you – please call that hotline – don’t be ashamed..). I see in the news about the young women who were kidnapped as girls – held and raped for 10 or more years – re-enter their lives and forge on to be successful as a women. Success – not meaning business success (that can come later…) – but rather they have successfully claimed back their lives – their spirits are healed and they move on. Who sings that song – “This is my fight song…claim back my life song…..”
When a woman has symptoms, violating her private area isn’t necessary. All you have to do is realize they don’t require the same of men, to know that it is a sham. Blood work, MRI, abdominal ultrasound and abdominal laparoscopy, self-testing, and if at all necessary – something new – a mammogram that doesn’t squish the breasts, rather it takes images. It reminds me of the machine that takes 360 degree X-rays of your mouth at the dentist’s office.
A gyn doesn’t have to feel your vagina in order to know something is wrong with your uterus. They just have to feel your uterus. There’s no need for looking at anything or insert anything between your legs. They should know from their description of your symptoms and training what you have or may have and then send you for the tests I mentioned that have nothing to do with stirrups. It doesn’t matter if you’ve had none, one, or many sexual partners. Women’s bodies are designed to be strong, not vulnerable because of sexual contact and childbirth – the lie that ob/yn’s make their careers off of. Some women may have issues with conception and birth, but these bastards have taken full advantage to abuse women. The profession needs to be (and is…being) taken over by women….they just need to change away from the male colleagues habits…or they would be no better than them. The pelvic and the speculum – these things never were really diagnostic tools. From all that I’ve read and studied on the internet, including our site ( all of the veteran commenters should have master’s degrees in women’s health as they bring very educational, fact based information to our site…), the so called pelvic exam really needs to be destroyed. It was more of a tool for gullible Victorian women and lecherous, curious males. It was for feeding the Victorian male gyn’s curiousity about the Victorian female body under all of those long skirts and underwear and corsets. Seeing as it has been about a couple of centuries since “gynecology” was started, you would think that this would have progressed away from stirrups and exposing women in such a barbaric way (and then expecting them to accept it…..) with all of the other technical innovations in medicine. A man will never be forced to get into stirrups or have devices applied to their genitals…they absolutely volunteer to allow it because they want it done- or the urologist will wind up punched in the nose, first). No, in this society, it’s more about pleasure and power. As long as women accept it and drag their daughters into accepting it, it perpetuates. However, too slow for us, there are changes and women are waking up. So glad that you are one. I’m just sad it happened this way for you.
Please keep in touch, MsMeagon Pack, or at least keep reading all that these special women and men have to say here and be illuminated. I hope someday you’ll feel blessed to know when you’ve become victorious over what has happened to you.
Moo I take black cohosh sweats and flushes which really helps me. Took 3 weeks to kick in. I really don’t want HRT either
hi its Diane,
i need to share with others who understand. I called my Dr ( who I like and teats the whole person), to make an apt for an issue I am having. The staff was rude on hung up on.
I finally got through .I could not get an apt for a while. What gives these people the right to be so rude?
I have wondered for a while if i have been ( kinda black listed) in the medical community.
i really do wonder if my refusal of female exams and bad anxiety make them treat me so rudely.
i hate going to Dr’s it just re traumatizes me. Please tell me i’m not alone.
i go twice a yr for thyroid blood work. So i really do stay away.
I can’t piss in a cup because of my trauma with mandated pee test. ( long story).
i don’t have anyone to go with me or even talk too about this.
The medical system is caught up in paper work patient care does exist.
i am polite to these people, though i am quiet and anxious.
I am sick of being treated so rudely.
i will let my Dr know of my experience.
i Feel my computer is teated better when its repaired , than the way medical offices treat people. Maybe it ‘s Florida I don’t know!
I can’t be traumatized anymore by rude medical staff. They make feel degraded and dirty.
its so sad that the medical system become so money hungry that people don’t matter.
Has anyone been able to over come the trauma?
I feel so alone, and unable to navigate the medical system! Please help!
Hi Diane
.
You are not alone. Receptionists at medical centres tend to be rude some more than others. It is not personal. I think it is a reflection of how they see themselves more than anything.
Hi Diane, You are not alone! I made myself an appointment with a private Dr. with my good insurance. (Am a survivor). The lady at the desk wanted to take my picture for my file. ( I thought,” So the Dr. can match my face to my genitals?”) My mind isn’t right, I know.. So I said no, I didn’t want to.She whispered loudly enough so I could hear her, “WEIRD!” To her office mate. If they only knew how many attempts it took me to make the appointment, get into the building, get into the elevator and march myself in there! I disassociated during the exam, and have been unraveling since. I have decided I have way to kill myself finally. I found 3 places I can buy cyanide pills. Just meant to say you are not alone. And it is like a crack in a dam, very tiny and the water starts rushing through and then the whole thing dissolves. It started a chain of me remembering things and events I had disassociated. And I can’t stop it. I wish I could stop remembering things.
Please do not take your own life. I hope I am misreading your comment about the pills. Please do not do that. Call 1-800-273-8255 National Suicide Prevention Hotline.
Thanks for replying! Even the psych forum people don’t talk to me! They ignore all my posts!
I posted two posts on a rape forum and they deleted them! I called the rape hotline and I told the lady my story and did she know any Doctors that would treat survivors or sedate us so we could take care of our health without our minds dissolving. And we both cried, byut she couldn’t give me any resources. Anxiety pills or sedated or Doctors who specifically could treat survivors.
Well, I haven’t bought them. Those pills. Still a few minutes of irreversible agony- and then it is done. A better death than the people who were forced to jump from the Twin Towers! $500 each. I think I should buy from the 3 sources because what if one or two are just baby powder in a capsule?
I think I should buy them for ‘just in case’ at least. This stuff has happened to me more than one time.
But I am getting those memories back and it’s not a good experience!!
I want to cut my head open and wash my brain with some Wisk and bleach. And squeeze it out real good.
I haven’t bought them yet.
In response to comments about hot flashes… I’m in my mid-40s and I’ve been experiencing hot flashes for several years now. I first tried Black Cohash. It took about 4-6 weeks to start working, but then stopped being effective after 6 months. I then started taking Flaxseed Oil. That really helped me. I’ve also taken pumpkin seed oil. The last few weeks have been horrible though, for me. A few days ago, I started take soy isoflavones and evening primrose oil. I’m not there yet, but I already notice a difference. Soy seems to really help. I’ve taken it before as an additive to another supplement, and I highly recommend it. I read recently that menopause (I’m actually pre-meno) can take 10-15 years. It is my hope that I will never go on HRT. Vitamin supplements are what I prefer. What works for one person may not work for another, and they take time to be effective.
I am so happy to have read this post. I am 33 and have never been to an ob/gyn. I just cannot fathom the idea of allowing a stranger that kind of access to my most intimate parts, the very idea of it makes me anxious. I asked my house dr about it once, and he said its not necesarry to go until i am married. He must have assumed I was a virgin, which i was and i remained one till my wedding day, at the age of 31. I have been made to feel so guilty about not going and i beat myself up so much about it, I have myself beleiving that i am reckless with my health (when I am actually fit and of ideal weight, eating healthy do not smoke and only drink on occasion). I thought once i had sex i would magically be less scared of a pelvic exam, but I still feel the same way about it. Reading this post has made me feel so much better about feeling this way, and less alone. Thank you so much for writing about this.
I got thrown out of the doctors office for refusing a pelvic exam just yesterday. I still stand by my decision, it is violating, inhumane, and unnecessary. I haven’t had one done in 12 years, because the last one the doctor forcibly ruptured my membrane, with his finger, and sent me into early labor, without even telling me he was going to do it. It was excruciating. Never again I say. This needs to be stopped.
It is true. No matter how excellent the Doctor or care. I disassociated during my exam. Switched personalities. Self abused because of the disgusting feeling. Still have that self hating feeling. Would like to just beat myself to death self hatred.
It was many years before I could go to one of these doctors again. I may never feel right again in this life.
Lily, you know you don’t have to have these exams EVER, all you need remember is YOU are in charge of your body and what happens to it. I’m sorry you feel so badly but please don’t hate yourself because of what they put you through. Treat the experience as a lesson learned and be kind to yourself. Your best teacher is your last mistake. Reading this site has helped me gain control over my life in many ways and I couldn’t do without it, I have read every subject heading and every comment and has brought me peace in my life. It has also taught me to question and research everything medically related, from over diagnosis, over treatment, unnecessary treatment/procedures/side effects etc. I feel empowered now. Stay with us here and take good care.
I was 6.5 when my first thing happened. And there were others.
Forced visit for pelvic or I wasn’t allowed to go home. And I cried and had a mental breakdown in the room. (I didn’t want to take my clothes off in front of a man I didn’t know. I didn’t want to take my underpants off or be made to show him my genitals. Or let him touch me. But I was bullied into it. Or I couldn’t go home again. So I submitted. I cried so hard while the ob/gyn was examining me, he complained to the nurse,” I can’t examine her while she is crying like this, she keeps pushing the speculum out.” They left the door open so I would feel more ‘comfortable’ with people going by in the hallway (too embarrassed to keep wailing).
They left the door open more than once when I went to my exams, ” So I would feel more ‘comfortable’ (so everybody walking by could see and hear what was going on, so they couldn’t be sued for doing this against my will).
My first bad thing that happened, they tricked me into going for surgery, it was almost 24 hours.
We really need specialized ob/gyns who could sedate and who can not send victims into disassociating. It has been almost 2 weeks now since my exam. And I am not okay.
sorry to hear what you went through. i can so relate. Had abuse issues Freaked out when i wa takwn for first exam. went through exam trauma for yrs, till I finally said enough! MORE EXAM ATTEMPS! I never fond out what my issue is.
I agree with having specialiized Gyns. I have asked to be sedated, refused!
gld you are here
Thanks! Glad you are here too!
Embarrassed because I am stitched and restitched like a shredded little rag doll.
Many things, why do we have to apologize for? Still freaking out, disassociating, going stiff, hanging onto the side of the table, covering my face for exams.
Couldn’t get into the building, several attempts. Couldn’t get into the elevator, several attempts. Changed where I sat tbecause I couldn’t stand having someone sit nearby.
So many things.
I would have preferred to be sedated.
Lily lamb it’s awfull the lack of respect and empathy you have been shown but really chasing uk is right. It’s YOUR body and you have every right to refuse these exams. Why do you need a yearly well woman check if you dont have symptoms. Hope you heal….
Thank you everyone for replying to me! I just checked and saw all the comments! The thing about disassociating is your mind is protecting you so you an function. Somewhere out there, that Doctor and Nurse are still out there. And he was right. He shouldn’t have done that first exam on me. And he should’ve reported the person who mad the appointment and brought me to that first forced pelvic exam to the authorities. It was rape and coerced rape. Sexual abuse. No one should be able to force a sexually abused minor into a pelvic exam when she obviously is damaged mentally because of it.
thanks lily. i wish too that i didn;t live the rauma exam attempts have caused me. i;m 57 act 37 .
i want the love i have been able because of this trauma. Te abortion in the hospital was the worst.
mean dr, self aborted in hospital.
I don’t evrn get along well with women. I feel damaged not as emtionalas they are. i am loical anyway. ( hate drama).
I don’t know about others but women haven’t ben supportive of my stance against exams.
i lied to my mom who kept nagging me about exams.
i agree about forcing a minoe. i was forcd at 17. i was taken for an exam at boarding school. The bitch trie to jam he finget uup me. hurt like hell i am small.
5’1 100 lbs was maybe 80 lbs than.
The U S medical system is all about $$$$ any way patient care is non exsistant. Its a maze of paper work. I stay away! Its why I am healthy. i take a natural thyroid pill thats it.!
The doctor took 24 hours to piece me together in surgery. There wasn’t anything left of me. Between to two places. And sticks imbedded in me. And sh*t, and my own vomit they stuffed back in me. Made me eat my own shit and vomit.
But I had skin taken from my leg, I remember having a patch on my thigh with no skin on it.
So I didn’t have a regular stretchy vagina. I had a built from scratch and pieces one. And I remember how that speculum burned. I cried so much. It hurt. And all they said was,” Oh- it couldn’t hurt that bad.” That I needed to relax and breathe.
I wish we could have Doctors who would treat trauma survivors. And s date us. I would have to have been sedated this last time.
Am very glad to have you to talk to.
Am very sorry that this happened to you too, and also very happy someone on this planet is there to talk to.
Thank you Diane for talking with me! I have a highly disfunctional life. You can tell by looking at my life that I am not right. I don’t trust anyone, I don’t have anyone on my emergency call list, I have no friends or family of any kind ever in my life, I don’t have any interest in sex at all, I don’t like amusements (but I like to escape in the movies), I, of course, have no kids. I am never happy, am even jealous of women who spend their days laughing and superficial! I wonder- what kind of lives do they have? Their biggest concern is some petty thing!
The non-emotional thing I am like that to! I always feel kind of stunned. And ‘unable to rise to the occasion’ for strong feelings of any kind. I wonder what that is?
Hi Lily. You have found true friends here on this site. I pray you heal quickly from all of that trauma. No one understands like we do. I’m so glad you found us. My love and well wishes to you.
Thank you Linda!
It makes me happy at least to know there is so much room for improvement in Womens’ health!
I cannot say thank you enough to the contributors and author of this post. I have suffered from this intense fear of going to the gynecologist my entire life. I am 28 and have seen three different gynos, hoping each situation will be different and am left with someone who is in a rush, patronizing, and just plain insulting sometimes. I have never completely gone through with an exam due to the intense fear. Each time I try, I end up crying and moving my legs so much that I really cannot control it. I have tried muscle relaxers and have just recently been prescribed a XANAX type drug. I hope it works. I have sex, I hope to have kids one day, but the fact that I cannot get through these exams worries me that children would be an impossibility for me (at least me birthing them). I now see two therapists (one talk, one hypnotherapy) and both are somewhat at a loss as to how to help me. They try teaching me exposure techniques and calming techniques, but I honestly just want to get knocked out like some of these other woman. If anyone has a solution for me, please do share. I would greatly appreciate it.
Hi, Jackie. The solution is very simple – just don’t have these exams. They are completely unnecessary at best, and at worst they can seriously harm you or the baby.
i do avoid these exams. it was such a relieve to not traunaize my self.
I am so tried of nasty Dr’s office staff. These women are so busy they for get their is a person on the other end of the line.
I had one today said i was supposed to laug at something she said. I just got her back on track of taking care of business. My anxiety gets me the worst treatment. I hung up got frustrated so bad at this crap!
all i need was a script for blood work. sevreal times i had to get her back on the business at hand. I will let the dr know about her behavior.
I came to this page in hopes I wasn’t the only one who felt so viciously violated and traumatized by the procedure. The doctor I had gave fairly good reasons for performing a pelvic exam (I was 17 at the time and looking to start birth control simply to help manage my periods) and I did have a sister with endometriosis, so her concerns were valid. However, I had actively been planning ways to say no to the prodecure on my way there and was determined to avoid it at all costs, but it ended up happening anyways.
I had not had sex, and afterwards am physically disgusted at even the idea. As time went on, and the eventual ‘I’ll get over it’ mentality I expected never came, things only got worse. I felt physically sick at even the mention of sexual intercourse or an OB/GYN, and was exhibiting behaviors I had been told only applied to rape victims. “But that’s not right,” I thought, “It was just a doctors appointment, I don’t have the right to be this upset over it.” So I never told anyone, and just dealt with the anxiety and the nightless nights of panic attacks.
Until I found this. And it was a huge wave of relief, knowing that I wasn’t the only one who felt so violated and traumatized over it. It was reassuring, knowing that others felt that the distress it caused was serious enough to be compared to rape. I didn’t feel so lonely afterwards.
I’m in college now, and while I really haven’t told anyone the extent of how serious it was, I’ve dropped clear hints to friends to help ease it up. Now, whenever a bad day hits, I don’t feel so alone. I know my anxiety is valid.
But I still wish there was a better way to avoid this. A way to make sure no one else has to feel the way we do. Because some days, it still feels so overwhelming.
Also, any additional advice on dealing with it would be appreciated.
Horrifyingly embarrassing and intimate exams! And they are so flippant about my desire for privacy and modesty while I am being forced to show them my genitals. I have had them keep the door open while they were doing the exam so I would feel ‘more comfortable’ . With people going by in the hallway. It feels like the kill line at a alaughter house to me.
There are usually a bunch of noisy Mexicans men with their girls friends babbling in another language. You don’t know what they are saying, but by their loud laughter it seems it is mean or cruel and disparaging or insulting. It is unnerving.
Ob/gyn offices should be quiet. Patients being seen only., not a bunch of noisy men. Dim lighting. Not a crowded waiting room with garish lighting.
A real cloth gown. A huge cloth drape. A curtain to put around inside the room. NOT wallls so thin you can hear the exam going on in the next room! The woman laughing nervously while you sit on your crinkly paper and shiver in fear, in anticipation.
I am having sharp pains in my back on the right side. All night. But you know, ovarian cancer or kidney stones- I am not going back ever again to these doctors. They will never again be allow to have acces to my genitals or orifices.
I could go for physica exams but only if I can keep my underwear on, and they better not even try to bully me into letting them molest me.
Pain on the right side? It could be appendicitis as being that is where your appendix is.
WTF? We ALL want to be knocked out for these exams!!
I usually am up ALL night long the night before, my mind presenting one humiliating and degrading set of sensations and scenarios after another.
A pill to sleep the night before, a closed door and curtain pulled, dim lighting, a quiet waiting room, a big cloth gown, a big drape, they should not touch our breasts or genitals at all before knocking us out. The tools should not be displayed. They make you feel disemboweled just looking at them!
To me it sinister like a rape every time. I feel icky and violated. Slightly resentful and uneasy saying goodby to staff, and they are so happy like, ” Hahaha- We molested her again! Used the REALLY big speculum on her! Why do they all make that noise when the speculum goes in!!? Stretched her all out good for another year! Now let’s all talk about her pussy lips or a**hole or nipples as she is leaving have you you ever seen such an ugly pussy?”
I know it is exactly rape to me and nothing less. Because I am shakey and feel nauseous afterwards. When I get home I take a shower and throw away my underwear and clothes I was wearing that day. (Otherwise, every time I put them on I am thinking,”THOSE are the underpants I was wearing THAT day-ick!”
I eat ice-cream after I get a tub soak (with wine in the tub) or a shower. And cry and cry. I have a drink after, and order food in. Then I take an Advil PM go to bed .
It is exactly a rape to me. Every time. It takes at least a week to start to feel ‘normal’ again. I am usually very withdrawn, anti-social/ introverted and quiet for at least a week after each exam.
Reading these comments is harrowing .I used to bin the knickers I wore to smears and wash my clothes and myself in dettol disinfectant. But really ladies Evie is right there’s no real need for a healthy asymptomatic woman to have these tests at all. Bimanuals don’t really tell you anything and you do t need them or smears to get the Pill. It can be hard an scary telling a medic to their face NO! but believe me when I started to do that I felt a whole lot more empowered. I hope you did a way to heal….and keep refusing these exams! There’s a good post on this site why are doctors sticking their fingers into women’s vaginas and a woman’s vagina doesn’t need yearly supervision after all. X. Kat
I’m 25 and never had an exam. I’m a virgin and never had my first kiss. I do not want to through with this humiliating procedure because I’m depressed with being a V and the fact that I never had a guy I like see me naked yet. I’m very frustrated sexually and even the thought of these people violating me makes it worse! I can’t have a guy but I can spread for some sicko doctor? While I’m not looking for love, I want a partner I’m even just slightly attracted to being the first fingers inside of me, the first to touch my breasts, ETC. NOT some pervy doctor! I put up with tax penalties every year cause I refuse to get health insurance due to the fact I’m afraid they will make me get a physical, including pelvic and breast exam, in order to have a policy. This is just too much! I’m crying and about to faint just talking about this!
Don’t let your first sexual experience be a pelvic exam, Pap smear and breast exam. It makes me nauseous just thinking about it. You will never forget the feeling of the exam or the horror of the events as they unfold for you if you make your first experience a gyn visit.
I am so glad for the internet and all of you! Thank you! I thought I was invisible or a weirdo or the only one.
I am completely willing not to have sex ever again if it would get me out of displaying my genitals to strangers and allow them to be cruel to them.
Allison: Even if you’d been with dozens of guys, they still shouldn’t be deciding what goes where. Bodily autonomy is not dependent on medical sponsorship & it’s not immature to protect yourself from someone unconventionally attacking you. After all, properties don’t change by designation- just like if a doctor poisons someone with a needle, it’s still murder. This applies to other things, as well.
Right off the bat, this is an interface with a sexual area as a product of someone else’s decision-making, which is an attack. It doesn’t need to involve wrestling & screaming any more than it needs to involve religion or relatives. There is a massive tendency towards bad science & general antagonism in medicine (especially American medicine), plus it’s usually on a subtle level- making it difficult to prove.
I feel that it makes it even more apparent that it’s a deliberate thing & there are no shortage of stories where they maim, murder, or molest someone. In addition, they usually act like they didn’t do anything wrong because they used medical techniques to do it. This is rather like a mechanic sticking a wrench up someone’s ass on their own accord & then denying that any attack took place. I never understood that argument- reality takes a coffee break in a medical setting? Or is it just for the medical personnel, specifically?
Even if they DID want to help someone out, altruism doesn’t produce ownership & they are not somehow innocent of their own actions because they might get groundlessly sued for doing otherwise. Groundless lawsuits are a risk for everybody all the time, but someone would more plausibly play it safe & not attack someone iatrogenically if they were really worried about getting sued. Another point is that someone wrongfully suing someone is not proportionate to medically raping someone, for instance (like with that guy in New York that walked into a hospital to get stitches & they forced a rectal exam on him 5 to 1- supposedly worried about him having a spinal injury, but it seems to not even be a viable test AND it was refused both verbally & physically).
If someone were at a restaurant & the waiter or waitress were to shove a salad down someone’s throat, that would be an attack- regardless of if there are potential health-bolstering effects, if the person doing this works there, or what genders are involved in this situation.
If there is a G-d in heaven, I wish I could get out of this life. If I could just take my brain out, and wash it with some bleach and Wisk. And have a completely clean brain, it would be so nice.
Hi Lily. There’s no need to take your brain out for a wash. You will be fine. You have found us and we are all here to support each other. We all have memories of exams we want to wash out. Women are strong and you are too. For you intimate exams are a thing of the past – the new you will not tolerate such disrespect to your body. Please take heart from our testimonies. There is a new life waiting for you one in which you are in charge.
XX
I’m so sorry to read these accounts, yes, harrowing is the word.
I don’t think I’ll ever lose the anger and sadness I feel for all the women harmed by so-called well-woman exams, pap tests & mammograms. (and those treated badly during pregnancy and childbirth)
IMO, one of the greatest risks to our health and well-being is women’s “healthcare”.
You don’t have to “avoid” these exams and tests either, it’s up to you, take a look at the evidence, that will empower you in the consult room – if you don’t want these exams and test, then say no, if that’s not accepted, I’d make a formal complaint and go looking for another doctor. (I know that’s not easy in some countries) If you don’t feel you can face the doctor, send an email first, stating you will not be having pap tests etc. and wait for the response, you’ll soon know whether you can work with that particular doctor/clinic.
I’ve found being informed and the calmness of age has helped me in the consult room, I think firm and polite is a killer combination, some doctors want you to be defensive, anxious, embarrassed etc. it’s unnerving and unfamiliar territory when the woman is informed, calm and stands her ground. It wasn’t always the way, I avoided doctors for many years, but something happens with age – I’ve spoken to a few women who’ve also found it easier to say NO in the consult room in their 50’s+.
I hope you all find some comfort from the evidence and knowing you have a choice, a say in what happens to your body – and yes, you can say NO
CAN you say no?
Can I really, even if my kidneys are failing or whatever? Say “No, my underwear stays on and keep your fingers out of my butt and vagina and off my genitals. The rest is yours.”
This is all I want. Not to be forced to give up access to my intimate parts to every one.
Lily – YES you can say NO…..to any medical procedure or test, especially this one! You do not have to justify your decision. Screening of any kind is carried out on people with NO SYMPTOMS so it will always be a choice. This is your body and your rules apply and do not let anyone tell you differently, if they do then threaten them with “I shall be reporting you”. All Cancer screening is an OFFER, it’s ELECTIVE/OPTIONAL by choice, it is not compulsory at all, EVER, and remember that all cancer screening has risks attached (which I doubt they will tell you), it is called overtreatment. These are YOUR private areas of YOUR body and if you refuse access to them then that should be the final decision. Tell them you have made an informed decision not to screen, by choice and say Thanks for the OFFER/INVITATION but NO THANKS – you always have that choice. No decision about you without you, please never forget this. Be firm, polite and do not sway to their way of thinking. They need to reach targets or they don’t get their payments
http://margaretmccartney.com/2012/04/10/womens-hour-cervical-screening/
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2016/05/18/new-letters-and-leaflets-for-cervical-screening/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4940995/
http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/28/women-informed-consent-and-cervical-screening
Please take the time to read the References and Education page on this site, there are many excellent links provided that will help you gain power over your body.
Please rise above the way you are feeling, you are number 1 so don’t let the medical profession get you down. Repeat the words “Informed consent, my decision” to yourself and them over and over again.
Take good care and protect yourself Lily………………….you’re worth it!
So do you think I could live out my life and never have to have somebody make me let them either see my private areas or do any of these exams again?
I suggested a woman say to her GP, who was bullying her about pap testing, “Oh, I checked with the Medical Board about that, I was confused as it always sounds like women must have Pap tests, but they told me although it’s recommended, it’s up to me. I was also told that no one has the right to pressure me to have Pap tests”
It worked a treat…never mentioned again, bullying is completely unacceptable, recommended does not make it a law. Recommendations here have called for serious over-screening for decades, so all recommendations need to be carefully considered to ensure they’re in OUR best interests.
The medical profession has a lot to answer for, I can feel the pain in your posts, hope you can find a way to move forward. You know…making a written complaint about your treatment might help, even if nothing comes of it, doctors don’t like having complaints lodged against them. I think when we feel like we’re been treated badly and doctors get away with it, it can be harder to recover from the trauma. One woman (online) told me that simply telling the doctor how he made her feel…made her feel better, he called and apologised, sometimes medical people need reminding that we’re not lumps of meat.
All the best, we’re all here for you….
I had a really horrible experience as a kid with a forced Pap, pelvic and breast exam.
When I was 6, I was pretty much destroyed and pieced together along with a swatch of skin from my thigh that was relocated there.
In the last month, I disassociated hard when I went to this ob/gyn I have good medical now. A good job. I found a private doctor and went for a complete physical. Thinking I could do it. Thinking while I have good insurance I should be an adult about things. I got my weight, blood pressure checked, quick pap smear (which hurt a lot, might have been what switched me) and disassociated during the Pap smear.
Switched into some personality I didn’t even know I had. I was Salesperson of the Year, or some slick talking business chick. I slick talked my way out of the rest of the exam/ escaped the rest of the exam, got dressed, left the building and drove off. Didn’t realize until the next day, I hadn’t had the physical. Didn’t give my medical history or anything.
So all week I have been remembering things. I can’t stop. It made me start remembering. And no one wants to talk time, the rape hotline people wouldn’t even give me any resources.
I found about about these SANE nurses, and wondered if they would send me in a direction for womens’ health with professionals that wouldn’t send me into another downward spiral.
A sedated exam next time?
No. No help.
I guess I’ll be better without them. I have no symptoms anyway
I should add that I understand for many women the calmness of age will never happen thanks to the psychological and physical damage caused by the medical profession and these programs. I know some women avoid all medical care due to past trauma.
The damage caused by cancer screening and women’s healthcare, esp. the well woman industry/scam is awful – it means some women may ignore symptoms for conditions that may go on to seriously damage their health or even take their life.
It’s a cruel joke to call this healthcare, I’ve always called it medical abuse.
It is horrific abuse. Now the thing is putting a hose up your intestines and taking pictures. They give you a date rape drug and an anesthesia that wears off in the middle of the expedition.
And it is horrifically painful I hear.
Thank you all for getting it into my head- I do not have to submit to these painful and humiliating exams anymore. I have no symptoms.
Until I die, this isNT body again. And no one can force me anymore!
I meant, “This is MY body again! And nobody can force me!”
Lily if you have no symptoms then intimate exams of this kind are not necessary, needed or compulsory, it really is as simple as that. I do not screen for any kind of cancer anymore, yes I was hassled by my GP but I explained or rather reminded him that it is my choice and gave a firm no, he thought I needed counselling on this but again used the words informed consent and choice, no more was said! I do not even have Health Checks as they have not been proven to reduce deaths, this information I read on the Pulse website which is for Health professionals only but somehow got in and registered as a visitor which allows me to read all the GP’s, Pharmacists and nurses individual comments, who also state that these checks are not worth it, cause a lot of anxiety, waste time and they would rather spend their valuable consults treating the real sick people not the worried well who use up resources and money.
If a complete stranger asked if they could touch you intimately, your reply would be a firm NO, the same applies in the medical setting, NO means NO. Take care.
Yes. I figured because they have already ruined my sexuality and vulva, the next adventure would be for them to try to ruin my anal retention by putting the wrong size tools up there too! Making fun of me while I am in horrific anal agony. ( “Whoops! That’s the vacuum hose- not the colonoscopy tube! We misplaced the colonoscopy tube. JUST BREATH DEEP! That vacuum hose couldn’t possibly hurt that much. You could fit a baseball bat up there and it would stretch!)”
And then laugh with each other about it.
No more access to my genitals or orifices EVER! I don’t care if there are vines growing out of my vagina!
Not only can a colonoscopy be painful it also carries risks, a perforated bowel for instance which can cause sepsis and you could die, it really does happen. My own father was tricked into having this procedure with no symptoms and was told he had a 2cm tumour, which I might add would probably never have caused him any symptoms or problems in his life time, being as he was 76 a heavy smoker/drinker, this 2cm tumour was removed but he developed sepsis and was straight into a coma, 5 more operations, another 2 bouts of sepsis, more comas etc. which caused damage somehow to his kidneys so they operated again! In hospital for 9 months and what a state they have left him in, a lot has been removed and now has a worse poor health than before living with a colostomy bag, he is a mess with little quality of life.
I shared some of the articles from this site on facebook and as a result had people unfriend me. Yeah, I feel pretty sad. But really, anybody who won’t be my friend unless I agree to get medically raped is not a good friend! Too bad the women on here don’t live near me.
Yet if you said you had doubts about bowel screening, I doubt it would cause a ripple of concern, judgement or protest…..but bowel cancer is far more likely than cc.
Just goes to show the irrational reactions about Pap tests and to a lesser degree, breast screening, thanks to decades of brainwashing and the concerted effort made to deceive women. Of course, all those “saved” feel very strongly about the matter…almost all have simply been over-treated. It’s so unethical to lead women to that conclusion simply to protect the program, excess and profits.
I am almost certain that is what happened to my grandmother. She had a mastectomy in the 1990s because they told her she had breast cancer. She had no symptoms. I’ve read articles about how they would find things back then and overreact and over-treat.
Honestly, I do feel like the exams have a good reason at their core- cancer is a pretty serious disease, after all.
However, I don’t believe these exams should be done yearly, as was recommended to me on my first visit, nor should they forced on completely asymptomatic women with no history of it.
I’ve been dealing with regular doctor visits since the age of three for a seperate condition- so I think it’s safe to assume I’m familiar with the doctors office, and have family in the medicial field. So to a point, I do recognize that these tests are necessary, and useful.
But also speaking as someone who has been so negatively impacted by it, who has fought every day to not let the trauma I felt there affect my daily life, I can’t stand by it completely. Why is the procedure still so far behind? We have cat scans and MRIs and are working on making prosthetics that move according to someone’s thoughts, but we still have to resort to physically forcing us into uncomfortable situations to point of mental trauma?
This can’t keep going on like this. Health is important, yes, and sometimes things are awful. But this is far too consistent, harming far too many people, for it to be expected.
Things need to change.
Hi Allison – I’ve had a similar experience. I’ve been practically yelled at for speaking out against this bizarre form of systemic oppression of women. “Medicine is NOT just a business!!” (Yes it is…) “These tests are necessary!” (No, they aren’t.) “You are an idiot!” (I’m a scientist with an advanced degree, and though I’m not in the field of medicine, I’ve studied plenty of biology, chemistry, and statistics; I’m not an idiot. I know too damned much, if anything.) We are in a lonely place, sadly. But we need to keep speaking out. The suffrage movement started out with just some lonely voices, as did the civil rights movement and women’s rights movement of the 1960s. Keep shouting, Allison – I intend to! Take care, Shelli
Shelli, I love your statement about heart disease. I’ve already been thinking this for a long time now, but you beat me to posting it on here. My mother died at 46 from heart disease. Heart problems run in my family on both sides, but we have no history of gynecological cancer. And these women only care about the routine visit to the gynerapogist. I do worry about my heart health, and I feel I actually would benefit from a yearly heart scan/EKG from a cardiologist. But unfortunately, that can’t happen cause a woman’s heart isn’t all that sexy. 😦