This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
Hi ladies,
Having a girly night in tonight which means we get a bit daft once the wine kicks in, we got onto the subject of hair styles
(The private ones ) Annette has absolutely nothing I’m a supporter of the landing strip,
and a friend who’s staying with us for a couple of days is completely au natural
this has left us wondering if the nurses that pester so persistently have little Hitler ones, in line with the regime they serve.
Hugs Jules x.
OMG Jules, thats brilliant. One of the “Patronising Cows” on a youtube video said it doesnt matter either way as she has seen it all. I just commented I dont care I am still not interested.
Despite the sorry state of the world I hope everyone manages to have a happy holiday. Thanks for keeping this site up and running.
Sue xoxo
Hi ladies,
I second that last comment, and wish all the wonderful women on the site a terrific Christmas and a fantastic new year.
Hugs Jules & Annette xxx.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Thanks for all the support and discussion here. Great to see women supporting each other like this and being welcoming to open discussion.
Hugs,
Ozphoenix
Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year to everyone on this site. I sense very much that we’re winning!
Hi ladies,
Well friends that’s yet another year passed and somehow we are all still here, despite those murderous vagina’s we own trying to kill us at every available opportunity ( according to some)
I’ve been reading up on some of the stats from the office of national statistics and according to them 9% of female cancers occur after the age of 75, this raises the question if they can’t find a way to increase their figures for the young, could they be tempted to raise the age limit to try and “recapture women ”that have been released from the program at 65 to bolster their figures as the majority of these women have been mostly compliant in the past
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
I could do with a little help, I’ve been searching for just how prevalent cervical cancer actually is , and there is conflicting information on most of the searches I’ve undertaken, some have said that cervical cancer is the 16th others the 18th and on one report that it’s not even in the top 20, does anyone know the actual “true figure”,during my search on the cancer research uk site I noticed that they now report that breast cancer has now taken over the number one top spot (overtaking lung and bowel cancer) to become the number one female cancer, so ladies don’t forget to conduct you’re own little checks,
nobody knows you’re boobs better than yourself, the only thing that is wrong with mine is that one appears to be slightly smaller than the other, which has always been the case anyway.
Hugs Jules x.
Here is the data you need if you live in the US: https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/cervix.html
Mouse over year marks in the graph to get per 100k incidence rates. Cervical cancer is relatively uncommon and risk factors (smoking, sex stuff and being a DES daughter) are well understood.
One problem is that most sites only provide the top 10 cancer related causes of death. To get the top 20 with any degree of accuracy you will probably have to run some of the numbers yourself.
Another problem I suspect you are running into is likely the same problem I have run into: there are multiple sets of data on cancer statistics. In the US rates vary by state, ethnicity, socioeconomic status and, of course, by actual risk factors. Someone will do something to the data set to adjust for some risk factor or other and then that data set will be used incorrectly down the line by someone else to make a claim that the data set shouldn’t ever have been used to make.
This is most common in popular press articles by authors who make claims not supported by the study they are covering. Though the whole field of science surrounding cervical cancer is like a slightly intoxicated game of telephone.
For example, wikipedia claims that the pap smear prevents 80% of cervical cancer. It doesn’t. No one knows how much, if any, preventative value the pap smear has. I may or may not know, I’m getting my data reviewed to make sure I didn’t screw up somewhere, but, thus far, there is no published study that looks at differences in outcomes between women who have had or not had the pap smear. The origin of that 80% claim, which you can find by going through a chain of four citations, ends with an IARC report on cervical cancer, in finland specifically. IARC does say what wikipedia claims they say. Instead, they say that, since the introduction of the pap smear, cervical cancer rates have declined in finland by 80%. Which is true. But you will also note that they aren’t saying its because of the pap smear. Two things can occur at the same point in time and not be causally linked. I would speculate that they want the reader to draw that conclusion, but they aren’t saying it because they can’t prove it. And they can’t prove it because its almost certainly not true.
Finland had some of the highest use rates of DES of any country in the world until it was withdrawn as a pregnancy medication. Essentially every pregnant woman in the country between about 1930 and about 1970 was on it. DES is a known cause of cervical cancer in DES daughters (children of mothers who took DES during pregnancy) boosting risk rates by between 100-400%. In 1970 this was widely known and DES use was discontinued. Meaning no further DES daughters were born after about 1970. This was also about the same time the pap smear was introduced so it is easy to make unsupported claims provided no one actually does proper statistical work, or a cursory literature review. So, yes, cervical cancer rates declined, but it probably had little if anything to do with the pap smear and everything to do with discontinuing a drug that caused high rates of cervical cancer in first generation daughters.
The entire field is like this. I come from a psych research background and I thought that field was bad, but its nothing compared to this.
I will note that HPV testing has some preventative value that is backed by data and my own statistical work, but even it isn’t 80%.
Thanks anonymous,
When I have a little more free time I will continue to try and uncover its true position.
Hugs Jules x.
Another year, another “awareness” campaign
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11667255/From-pain-constipation-Tell-tale-symptoms-cervical-cancer-REVEALED.html
The opening is particularly disgusting, adding the US with the UK so they can use the term thousands to sound scarier.
I saw this in the Daily Fail yesterday, unlike last year I havent seen those vulgar TV adverts saying to get your cervical screening done. Maybe its been a bit toned down this year although twitter and youtube are in overdrive from the cervix stazi.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cancer-smear-test-false-negative-b2268853.html
Another one where the smear test was negative but lady went to see GP with symptoms 3 years later and got cancer diagnosis. As in the Irish cases they won’t admit that the test is wrong, always that someone failed to assess the slide properly. Straight to solicitors to get massive NHS payout. I hope it’s a big one for this woman’s family’s sake, but hope also that they realise they can’t keep on paying out like this, and need to admit publicly that the test is useless and well past its sell-by date. Hopefully it will speed them up into ditching it altogether for voluntary HPV self-testing.
Hardly anyone buys a newspaper these days and some still behind a paywall. Hopefully it will mean a big reduction in these rubbish stories.
Jess, I have to laugh at some of these comments on twitter as the topic seems to irritate everybody, screeners and non-screeners alike. Still a load of people who think the low turnout is due to the NHS not using the word “woman” in their invitations. As if that could possibly be a reason for women not to go! We get sent these invitations (summons demands) addressed to us personally. They have our name on the envelope and our name on the top of the letter. Now, how can any idiot still think that because the word “woman” is missing from the brochure, that this couldn’t possibly apply them? I almost enjoy seeing the anger that these campaigns generate, if for the wrong reasons.
Here we go again – the 2023 smear campaign is ramping up! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64337138
Interesting, this daily fail article. Not the drivellous article but a good few comments are, women know what’s normal for them and stop scaremongering, and one woman said she had that pain and was diagnosed with spondylitis!! Maybe the ride is turning away from this test!
Recently I’ve read that a skin cancer on a hand was attributed to HPV.
Any comments? Does this make you think about getting HPV vax?
Cat and mouse I shall be stampeding ro doctors and refusing to leave til I had it lol
A friend of mine who is a rape survivor asked me to quantify the risk of not having a pap smear after her doctor wasn’t able to. I am disabled and functionally retired now, but prior to becoming disabled I did a lot of work with data science and research validation. I thought this would be a 30 minute question, because it is a nationwide screening program and nothing without strong supporting data ought to have become a nationwide screening program. A year’s worth of research later I have had to rethink some of the assumptions I made about scientifically grounded health care.
So far as I can tell, both for reasons listed on your site and from data analysis of historical statistics that I don’t see listed on your site (which isn’t surprising, I appear to be the first person to have run the numbers and then tried to do anything with that data, which ought not to be the case, its simple statistics) the pap smear has between very little and no preventative value. It was never subjected to a RCT. Indeed, so far as I can tell, we have no evidence that it has any preventative value whatsoever, other than my own work, which shows very little between a sample population of 315k women in CA between 2003-2009 and national SEER data for the same time period. I have FOIAed CA twice for the data I need to determine if this small preventative value holds up for cervical cancer rates only in their state, rather than nationwide. They have ignored both of my requests and have not even confirmed receiving them. My state’s health department has agreed to look over the data I have and I am writing it up for their review, minimally, they should be able to point out any statistical mistakes I may be making. Obviously I don’t think I am mistaken, but the point of a scientific process is to verify that I am not. It appears to me that we got into this mess by the arrogance of a few men who failed to adequately follow the scientific method. The only way out of it will be to rigorously follow the scientific method and produce conclusions that are backed by hard data.
I will state that HPV testing (as opposed to the pap smear) does seem to have preventative value, however (1) cervical cancer is rare enough that testing probably shouldn’t be part of a nationwide screening campaign and should be risked based and opt-in instead (2) one study found that non-invasive urine tests for HPV achieve 85% of the accuracy that HPV testing does, which would provide a non-invasive method of screening for that segment of cervical cancer caused by HPV, which I feel comfortable stating is at least half of all cervical cancer based on the data I have seen and (3) a mandatory screening program of this kind may have unintended outcomes, such as medical avoidance, among a significant portion of the female population who are sexual assault survivors (or who simply don’t want to be badgered about the procedure) the detrimental health outcomes that may arise as a result of medical avoidance (and resultant delayed diagnosis and delayed treatment of unrelated conditions) has never been evaluated when considering the possible harms caused by a screening program of this kind. But it has been considered with regard to the prostate exam in men, which is one reason the USPSTF no longer recommends the prostate exam. I am not able to identify an explanation for this oversight other than sexism.
I made a bit of progress that I would like to share here. The CDC had a statement on their cervical cancer page to the effect of 1) cervical cancer used to be the leading cancer related cause of death among women and 2) now it isn’t primarily because of the pap smear. I FOIAed them and asked that they provide a citation to support that claim, because I couldn’t find one. I got a very nice reply for a co-author of the symposium that the CDC was incorrectly citing in support of their incorrect claim. That author stated that cervical cancer never was a leading cancer related cause of death among women and confirmed that the CDC was incorrect in making that statement, they added that historical data collection methods, which grouped unrelated kinds of cancer together, may have provided support for this statement, but they also felt that this grouping wasn’t scientifically valid. From this they stated the statement itself was incorrect. That statement, along with the claim that the pap smear is the primary cause of lower cervical cancer rates among women, has now been removed from that CDC page.
I have more to say on this topic, but my last attempt to post here never appeared that I could tell, possibly because I included citation URLs. So I’ll cut it off here.
Wow, thanks for that Just Commented, it backs up everything we know!
I did my own research a long time ago and could not find anything that justifies the mass rape of women in search of this rare cancer. Its never made sense the amount of attention cervical cancer rates verses lung cancer, heart disease and others in women, which occur far more often and are pretty much ignored.
No doctor has ever been concerned about the state of my heart but I’ve been asked plenty of questions about the state of my cervix and am I up to date with burning or cutting it (as is done to most women after an innocent smear)!
Hi Oz , how’s things.
As you’ve probably read , here in the Uk we are currently experiencing yet another cervical smear campaign , I don’t know how much these things cost to run ( probably too much )
but with the cost of living so high the country over two and a half trillion in national debt strikes up and down the country including staff that work for the NHS, I’m pretty sure the money could be better spent on other thing’s other than an inaccurate test that a lot of women deplore and the cause of over treatment of thousands, but no, their precious test is far too important for them to abandon, if it wasn’t so serious it would be comical.
Hugs Jules x.
I just wanted to comment and say I am so glad I found this website and that many of you feel the same as I have felt about this topic for many years. I am nearing 26 years old and have evaded the pressure and coercion of this ridiculous procedure. I will say that I always lacked an inclination to have it performed because I have always been skeptical of the medical procedures that physicians pressure women into undergoing—so I always pushed the idea that I “needed” a Pap smear, miles out of out my mind. However, after years of not going to a doctor for a regular routine check-up, I visited one last week and was asked the question “when was your last Pap smear?” I must say, being asked such a question with the implication that it was something I SHOULD have already done, was quite infuriating and offensive. Luckily, my physician only briefly asked me why I opted out, and I expressed that I am aware of the rarity of cervical cancer and how overused paps are, and that considering my partner and I have only been with one another, it was an extremely low risk for cervical abnormalities or cancer anyway, so why would I undergo something that I don’t need/want?
I have spent the last week doing my research because it is not only important for my own personal benefit, but I have found even more information (along with this website) that confirms my suspicions and exactly what I have felt/thought all along about this unnecessary, invasive, and repulsive procedure. I will always refuse (unless absolutely necessary—although the list would be short I imagine—visit a gynecologist).
I’m happy to hear that women in some countries have the ability to self-test if they see fit. I wish that was more commonplace in the United States—I have only found a few self-tests available for HPV here. If I see fit, I know that is an option and again, demonstrates that I don’t need someone else to touch my genitals. I wish I could get past how upsetting the prevalence and brainwashing regarding Pap smears is. It seems many women follow suit with these procedures without question, not knowing what they’re getting themselves into. It is almost as if they believe it is mandatory, and that if they don’t, this invisible monster called “cervical cancer” is waiting to attack them at any turn, if a doctor isn’t having them spread eagle to inspect every inch of their genitals, every spare minute they have. They grin and bear it when they really don’t have to. At least I can save myself.
Thank you for this forum and also for reading my long winded post. I have been holding this in.
Hi Everyone,
Hopefully none of us on here have been further brainwashed by the ongoing screening campaign. I haven’t seen the TV advert this year, but while watching TV the other night it made me wonder do some women actually enjoy going for a smear test? I don’t mean in the sense that they get some gross sexual pleasure from it more sort of that for the ten minutes or however long you are in there for they are centre of attention.
I saw a video on Youtube a while ago where a you woman of 24 and a half had been waiting for her letter to arrive for months and as soon as it did she went running into the next room to tell her mum and in the video said that she now felt like a true woman and booking her smear test was like a rite-of-passage. She then filmed on the morning of the appointment in full make up saying she was leaving in 10 minutes etc and waxed the day before, then filmed the minute she got back saying it was over in 30 seconds, didn’t hurt, the nurse was lovely, and ending by saying we all must go as its so important. Personally that I feel that she actually enjoyed the experience, boasting about it before, showing her body off like that, then boasting about it again afterwards. Maybe if you did a pie chart on the reasons why women attend cervical screening the percentages could read something like this:
20 percent attend as they genuinely think this is of some benefit
30 percent attend as they have been coerced by their GP or Nurse when trying to get contraception
20 percent attend as although its not pleasant they have always attended as all women “have” to have this test
20 percent attend as a follow from a previous positive/ false positive
10 percent attend as they enjoy going and can boast about it on youtube/twitter/mumsnet
Maybe the numbers need some tweaking but hopefully you will understand where I am coming from. Does anyone else on here think this way?
Jess
Jess…: oh yea!! Rite of passage and becoming a woman when you get your first “invitation “
VOMITABLE
Thanks Kat 🙂 I am tempted to post a link to the Youtube video on here, as you say pass the sick bag.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/cervical-screening-programme/cervical-screening-programme-coverage-statistics-management-information
If you live in the UK these statistics have just been published today. You can look up your own GP surgery screening figures by scrolling down to the datasets near the end and selecting your local area. The overall uptake results for the UK are still going down.
My right of passage is saying “No.”
I can’t stand these women who do this. Unfortunately, I think screening is talked about in secondary schools, and girl guides. My daughter told me. They talk about it amongst themselves and there’s a lot of peer pressure to see who’s been and had it done first. It makes me sick just thinking about it. Those 24 year olds putting on their make-up and posting selfies as they trot off to their chav test, then saying it’s over in minutes, but they haven’t had the result yet. How do they know they aren’t going to be called back for a never ending round of cervix scarring? Then these women turn up on these chat shows promoting it like they’re martyrs. I can barely keep the sick down just thinking about this…
In the US, where I am, add as a reason “Employer demands it for insurance coverage reasons.” I don’t know if this is the correct place to post this question/concern or not (I’ve been out of the loop for awhile) but I’m pretty upset today. I start a new job at a university this Monday and they are making me do a medical tomorrow. I’ve no clue what it will entail. I have successfully avoided doctors except for very specific things, for several years now. Now this medical evaluation is being forced on me tomorrow. They’ve set me up with a woman practitioner. I don’t care. I refuse to remove clothing. My fear is being coerced into taking off my clothes and getting violated as a condition of starting my job Monday. I didn’t know they were going to do any of this when I accepted the offer. I need the job. I know you all are in UK and laws are different there, but I could really use some support here. I’m super upset. I’m also older and docs love to tell me how “at risk” I am. How do I say no and keep my job? Are any site moderators in the US?
Shelli, for starters, what kind of job is it? Management and money? Or just a prescreen and drug test as many in US have? If they are paying for it, they get the results.
It’s your right to know what, in advance, they are looking to do. As it’s also your right to accept or deny them permission.
US person here—Any exam like that is ELECTIVE. It is not legally required and a doctor cannot make you do it. An employer cannot make you do it either. A physical really will entail just questions about your health, take your blood pressure, urine sample, blood sample, maybe an EKG. But it should NOT entail any genital exams. I was not asked to remove my clothing at my physical exam. They might ask you about your last Pap smear. You can tell them you have made a personal choice not to undergo screening because you accept the small risk (1% risk of cancer) and you do not wish to speak about it further. You can really say any reason you want. The key words you can use are “I am not comfortable and I don’t want it.” I find that to be key in shutting them down. My provider (and more providers as of recently) are more respectful of our choices and reasonings behind them. I can’t speak for previous decades, but I can imagine doctors were way more coercive and pressuring, especially for women-specific exams. Luckily, that’s changing. Also, it may be of benefit to you to know that there are HPV home tests for purchase in the US. you can check out Everlywell or MyLabBox. It is a simple vaginal swab, not cervical. It is just as accurate as a physician doing it and you mail it to the lab yourself. You can also say that’s how you prefer to screen. HPV tests are more accurate and many developed countries have shifted to that testing method solely. But that’s also your choice if you even wish to do that. Good luck. I’m here if you need more support and advice.
These self or at home HPV tests. Can you please tell me where to get them and what brand names they go by? Is Delphi Screener included? Cost?
Thanks in advance.
Hi!
If you are in the US, you can get them from Everlywell or MyLabBox. Here is the link to the one on MyLabBox that I personally have used:
https://www.mylabbox.com/product/cervical-screening/
The kit includes a q-tip that is used to take a vaginal sample (not cervical) so it only goes in just a bit and you swab for about 10-20 seconds. You put it in the test tube, place it in the box, and ship it off to the lab. It will tell you if you have high risk HPV and I believe is more than 99% accurate. That one is a little pricy at $89 but I like it because it’s called the “cervical cancer screening” test so when I give the results to my doctor, it “looks” more comprehensive and “seems” like it’s still a traditional Pap smear. If you use the code MLB30 it’ll bring it down to $60.
You could also go with Everlywell’s option which is around $50. They send the results to the same lab as MyLabBox and it is also 99% accurate. The test is performed the exact same way.
I’m not sure of your country and age but in the US, the American Cancer Society “recommends” HPV testing over Pap smears and recommends them only every 5 years (ages 25+). I’m strictly relying on these HPV tests for my screening measures (when I feel is appropriate). Several developed countries have followed suit. Let me know if you have any questions!! I’m so happy I found these home tests (and I feel more people are receptive to being recommended home HPV tests over telling them they don’t need to screen period).
Thanks. When I did the Trovagene test in 2012 cost was $140US with insurance or $120US cash.
My husband found it for me and even rode the doctor’s office staff enough that they refused to talk to him. Apparently the veiled threat the doctor would go to jail if he didn’t pap me, and my husband calling them out, wasn’t what they expected. So after five talks with the doctor it was finally ordered.
One of the best medical days of my life.
A partner doctor asked my husband why a woman would want that over him performing the test. He didn’t like my husband’s blunt answer.
When you need these asshole doctors later in life you can’t get them to stay in the room long enough to even explain the issues.
But when you’re young you can’t get them to leave your vagina alone.
Oh wow! I’m sorry about what you have had to deal with. Im glad your husband advocates for you. Many men are unaware of the atrocities of women’s health and how they are treated. I’m in my later 20’s and I have avoided (I guess I shouldn’t use that word but rather I CHOOSE not to visit a gynecologist or undergo those exams). I found a “patient-centered” physician who while she recommends the guidelines (since she is obligated to), also believes in making decisions based on one’s risks, history, comfort, preference, etc. I was asked about when my last Pap smear was and when I had expressed I don’t do them, she wasn’t shocked but rather just wanted to know my rationale. I explained that I’ve been in a strictly monogamous relationship, don’t smoke, don’t take birth control, etc, so I’m very low risk. She didn’t have an argument. I did explain discussions like that are uncomfortable for me, and I don’t want to be asked again about it, and that if I screen, I’d use an HPV home test and give her the results. She was completely understanding and also noted in my chart never to ask about screening again. I’ve always been afraid of seeing physicians (especially after turning 21) because of the coercion I hear about regarding these exams. I wish everyone had a physician like her. I was surprised by her understanding and her respect. I think it is telling that things are changing—albeit slowly. I am going to market those HPV home tests to those I know and anyone inquiring, whenever I can. I already told a friend who is going to use the kit rather than going to the doctor—that’s some progress! I don’t know what woman would prefer a speculum and a doctor’s fingers as opposed to a cotton swab and being able to control how her vagina is touched. Sorry for the anecdotes. I’ve become very passionate about this topic, and seldom are there safe spaces to discuss it.
Hi Shelli,
I went through the same thing for a horrible government job once (I’m in Australia). I managed to fend them off. I refused to remove my clothes and told them I didn’t do pap smears – the woman blinked rapidly at me like she was about to break! LOL
They wanted a urine sample for drug testing. I gave them one, but the stick test showed traces of blood (I was using the pill without a break to stop my periods as they were horrendously heavy but there was always some spotting) and the nurse/doctor went off her nut about it, questioning me about ‘why’ there was traces of blood in my urine (when it was none of her business).
I told her my period was due to start so that must mean it was coming tomorrow! (Smiling at her like we’d discovered something amazing!).
She unhappily accepted that, but it was a horrible experience.
I got the job, but quit shortly after as I was bullied and overworked.
Stand your ground about what you won’t put up with. I would get nasty if they demand to do a pap smear as that’s rape.
Alright, here’s the thing. Anything that is ‘required’ cannot be consensual. There’s a power dynamic and they could refuse you the job for not undergoing medical. I’m so sorry you’re in this unethical situation.
Hi ladies,
In regards to all of the smear campaign’s I
don’t think it’s to raise awareness at all (if anyone misses this continuous bombardment of “awareness ”they must be living up a tree in Outer Mongolia) I think that because of the sliding figures, all the publicity that is given is merely to keep the ones that submit to the test in check,
women’s health not really , self preservation more likely.
Hugs Jules x.
Inetresting post Jules, There was a feature on Sky News on Friday saying that overall cancer cases as likely to increase over the next 12 months due to people not being able to get Drs appointments. Then guess what…. instead of showing a guy having his prostate checked or his balls felt they showed archive film of a woman having a mammogram followed by a smear test couch complete with stirrups!! Unconsious bias or what!! Yesterday must have been a quiet news day as at the top of the Daily Fail website was an article by someone urging women to go for smear tests.
Every one of the smear campaign adverts I’ve seen, which feature a woman with cervical cancer have got the disease in spite of cervical screening. Story is always that they were up-to-date devotees of the programme and last test was negative. I suspect solicitors specialising in medical negligence may be behind these, but they are glaring advertisements showing that the test does not work.
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p200
and another wonderful screening programme is proved as good as useless
Amazing how blunt they are about it. I can’t imagine the same language used with cervical cancer.
Hi ladies,
I’d almost given up my quest to find the true incidence rate of cervical cancer, many of the statistics differ from organisation to organisation I think that this is a deliberate ploy to confuse and hide the truth. Almost defeated I came up with a different approach, instead of trawling through endless and confusing reports, the answer came to me in a lightbulb moment, to simply search for incident occurrence figures from the office of national statistics here are the results.
Type. No’ of cases
Breast. 55,920
Lung. 48,594.
Bowel. 42,886.
Melanoma skin cancer. 16,744.
Non-Hodgkin lymphoma. 14,176.
Kidney. 13,222.
Head & neck. 12,422.
Brain & central nervous system
12,288.
Pancreatic. 10,452.
Bladder. 10,292.
Leukaemia. 9,907.
Uterine. 9,703.
Oesophageal. 9,272.
Cancers of unknown primary causes. 8,589.
Ovarian. 7,495.
Stomach. 6,453.
Liver. 6,214.
Myeloma. 5,951.
Soft tissue sarcoma. 4,295.
Thyroid. 3,865.
Cervical. 3,197.
Mesothelioma. 2,718.
Testicular. 2,354.
Hodgkin lymphoma. 2,124.
Small intestine. 1,809.
Anal. 1,519.
Vulvar. 1,372.
Gallbladder. 1,130.
Eye. 851.
Penile . 699.
Vaginal. 250.
Although this doesn’t give the actual position of cervical cancer because many of the numbers contain a shared value of both men and women, but you can see that cc is pretty low down the list
which should give some women a little more reassurance, another thing that struck me was the number of prostate cases in men 52,254. Why aren’t medical staff lassoing males as they walk by surgery’s and dragging them in for testing, why no prostate awareness campaign, why no doctor pressure during visits, probably because they have to show more respect to our counterparts or they might get a slap , maybe this should be our attitude. The figures I’ve used are from the years 2016 to 2018 and were published in January 2020. So the next time you get any pressure off the doc to screen, tell him you would love to, as long as he screens you for the twenty or so more prominent cases of cancer first.
Hugs Jules x.
Jules, I’d been trying to research for the actual figures myself and come to dead ends. I think the problem is that the HPV vaccination has made any new cases non-existent and they are at a wait and see stage to see how this develops. Had read somewhere that although the HPV jab is for a limited number of HPV types, it has had surprising cross-protection against other types too. The publicity cases we’ve seen in the media tend to be 30+ something women who would have just missed out on the jabs. I also read on Cancer Research UK website that the most common age of death from cervical cancer is 85. Can’t see Jo’s Tosh using 85 year olds in their publicity. Some countries are claiming to be cervical cancer-free by 2030 if not before. I think they’re keeping very quiet on the actual figures to prevent women realising that it’s all a waste of time.
Hi adawells,
I think you are quite right in assuming that Jo’s would like to keep the age figure of 85 under wraps, as the main target age is far younger and a lot of women knowing this fact would simply feel that it wouldn’t concern them and not go for their appointment, and greatly affect their overall screening numbers another point is that screening stops at 64-65 and from what I’ve come to understand , how many doc’s would try coercion and pressure tactics on an 85 year old when they probably prefer to examine 27-28 year old slim attractive athletic pretty subject
seams like a no -brainier to me and probably they feel the same.
Hugs Jules x.
Morning Ladies (and people with a cervix).
I need to vent as I have seen another link on twitter stressing the “importance” of having this test, its the usual nonsense (over in 5 minutes, nurse really lovely, uncomfortable but didnt hurt). Sorry to share this with you but its given me an idea:
https://rachaelstray.com/cervical-screening-smear-test-what-to-expect/
If ever we have a forwomenseyesonly social meet up one of the “icebreakers” at the start should be a game called Smear Test Bull**** Bingo. We each get a bingo type card with smear test related words and phrases and the someone calls the words out. The first person to cross off all their words yells Bull**** and wins a prize!.
Jess.
This reminds me of a word search puzzle I saw once in a nurses magazine. All the words were to do with cervical screening. Funnily enough, none of the words like scam, misinformation, bullying, consent, could be found in the puzzle!
A word search about smear tests? My favourite word springs to mind, Vomitable! Seriously I just ate too!!
Just goes to show you it truly is a game.
Hi ladies,
How I missed this I’ll never know, it’s been noted in a few daily tabloids ( including the daily fail) how a new test for breast cancer could be on the way, and it’s absolutely incredible, a professor at Hallam Sheffield university who also works with the police in forensic cases called Simona francese has discovered that when she processed finger prints for dna that there was a protein also detected which has the potential to be 98% accurate in the detection of breast cancer, just think ladies no more squished boobs all that would be involved would be to order a glass slide something similar to the old smear test sample slide ( yuk) and then rub a finger on it as if you were getting rid of a smudge send it back for analysis and then await the results no removal of any clothes no pain and almost 100% accurate, could things finally be getting better, I hope so it’s taken bloody long enough.
Hugs Jules x.
Hey ladies! first off, thank you all for the above posted HPV self test, i’ve been meaning to self test for a while, although i believe that my concerns are gone. i am so mad at Healthgrades, they sent out an email with all the tests you should do- one of them was a pap smear and breast screening. Although they did say in the article that one can do this every 3 years. Their wording was so off, and not even that, but not even considering that the pelvic exam is very uncomfortable. Like in my case, i have asked for a pedriac speculum, and all the gynos that i been to refuse to follow my requests. Even how a speculum is handled can make one uncomfortable! Like are doctors blind- for some if its very uncomfortable, they may avoid it! Hence us! I deleted the email in the recycle bin right away, but jeez. Even breast screenings can hurt certain people, especially if one has small breasts! You know they should consider the alternative testing options for people who want it. but no mention of that either in the articles.
I also am considering donating to planned parenthood, because i support the access for the abortion pill and services, but am really tempted to also send them a letter with something along the lines of “i support healthcare for women when they need it, but they also shouldn’t be pressured to have a pap smear, or just mention the alternatives to a pap smear should a patient want that. of course, they don’t have to listen but, maybe they can try to improve their services for the future.
Hi Sunflowergal,
Be careful about donating to Planned Parenthood. Their HOPE program (Hormonal Option without Pelvic Exam) where women can get the pill without the pap and pelvic they usually allow only once. I’ve had friends in the USA who were heavily pressured to accept the exams after using HOPE once and denied the pill without the pap/pelvic. Most of them then had to stop using Planned Parenthood and try something else to get the pill without the forced rape.
If you look at their website, right under where they explain what HOPE is, they say they, ‘We will urge you to return for a well-woman visit’. So they still want to do the rape.
I have been reading this site for many years. I always wanted to comment. I never did because my pap nightmare was Planned Parenthood. I know PP is so loved. I was scared to get flamed for going after such a beloved entity.
I was raped when I was twenty. I had a lot of trauma from the rape that I needed a lot of medical care. I was using Planned Parenthood. I would go in weekly and they would give me a pap test every week. Yes, every week for a full year. That is correct I had 52 Pap tests in one year and over 300 in a five year period. I have my charts to prove this.
A nurse told me that I needed so many pap smears because rape victims have a higher chance for cervical cancer.
They also sent me to a doctor who sexually assaulted me several times in his office. I was a scared 20 year old trauma victim, so I didn’t report him. I didn’t think anyone would believe me. He was later arrested and charged when several women did report him for sexual assault a few years after my assaults.
I had so many paps my results were inaccurate, so more and more testing until my body gave out and I gave up.
I have such trauma from this I can’t see any doctors at all. The last medical appointment I had a bad anxiety attack that my blood pressure was at stroke level.
Planned Parenthood did this back in the 1990’s. I found out only a few years ago they were over papping patients to get funding. I will never forgive. I hate this organization with a passion. They were suppose to help and protect me. They abused and assaulted me.
Finding this site several years ago was the first time in my life I didn’t feel so alone knowing other women went through trauma because of irresponsible and needless testing.
OMG, Jasmyne, I am so sorry. That is a nightmare. I’m sorry. No one should ever have treated you like that. Bloody hell!
PP is a medical provider just like any other doctor. From what I’ve heard from other women, they’re not that great either. They try to market themselves as woman-friendly but they’re anything but…
I hope the doctor who hurt you repeatedly was locked up for a very, very long time.
Hi ladies,
I wanted to share this as I think this is something very cool that (hopefully) the US will be implementing soon. While I don’t necessarily think nationwide screening is necessary, I’m all for anything that will keep that g*ddamned speculum out of women’s vaginas. Lo and behold the Teal Health cervical cancer screening test that is being studied to be the first FDA approved HOME test:
https://getteal.com/
Hi ladies,
We had cervical cancer awareness in January, which went largely unnoticed, I never actually saw or heard one advert or plea (fine by me) but last week again unnoticed by me there was an ovarian cancer awareness campaign, a friend of mine from work mentioned it, she said it just mentioned the symptoms that you should present to your gp if they occur, I can just imagine it now all the cervical screening herd stampeding down to their surgeries and demanding an ovarian screen test, such is their ignorance
If they are so concerned about their health why do they not be more pro-active and do some bloody research and save themselves from decades of worry and stress.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
I’ve been looking up this ovarian screening awareness campaign, because I hadn’t heard a thing about it turns out it wasn’t an awareness week, it’s supposed to be running for the whole of March .
To be honest I just don’t understand why , the symptoms they describe could apply to a number of different conditions, the only thing I can put it down to is a clever ploy, if a woman has experienced any of the symptoms fear and panic would have her rushing down to the surgery and when she told the doc of her concerns he would have that look on his face as he was reaching for his gloves even though in one report in the USA it only achieved an accuracy of 1% (yep that’s right ) it could even be a ploy just to get women into the surgery so they would get the old “I might as well check you out if you’re so worried crap” and push a pap onto you as well, there are other ways to get a more a more accurate diagnosis insist on a referral for a ct scan or a sonography either the jelly on the belly or if needs be the internal one and then match these up with a ca125 blood test, if ovarian cancer is found at a bi-manual exam it’s pretty much game over any way that’s why it’s been mostly discontinued because of it’s poor diagnostic qualities many doctors now admit it was a relic from the past which simply became a ritual and was unfit for purpose, so tell him where he should put his gloves and book you a referral for a more reliable test.
Hugs Jules
Hi Everyone,
I have just seen this on the Daily Fail website:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11758177/Get-coil-pharmacist-NHS-launch-national-pharmacy-contraception-service.html
Surely if a Pharmacist can be trained to fit a coil then they are capable of carrying out Cervical Screening as well? Not that I have any intention of commencing cervical screening, but can you imagine the outcry from indignant practice nurses who will lose a lot of their footfall and ability to dictate to people, and this will also reduce the opportunities that stroppy receptionists get to snarl at people over the phone. We can live in hope….
Jess.
Hi jess,
I’ve just read the article, and it would no doubt be beneficial to some to get hold of the pill or implant but it says that the pharmacist would not be allowed to introduce either the ius or the iud ( I think that this is classed as a medical procedure) but this is still a welcome new introduction as the only pill we can access at the moment is the mini pill, it seems their grip on women is slipping.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
I’ve managed to find something that maybe of interest to some,
a report in the journal of nature communications on the 24-2-2022 by Dr cindrilla chumduri head of research at the microbiology department at julius Maximilian’s university wurzburg (jmu) has said that studies have shown a definite connection between pathogens and tissue in her team’s report they specifically targeted the area of the ecto and endocervix known as the transition zone as this area is particularly prone to infections and neoplasms and where the majority of cervical cancer originate’s , the team focused on the pathogens HPV and C trachomatis two of the worlds most widespread sti’s , the HPV virus is known to be found in 90% of all cervical cancer, however the team believes that HPV is not the sole culprit as shown by the fact that up to 80% of all women will be infected by this virus during their lifetime but less than 2% will progress to cervical cancer, the teams research has led them to believe that co-infection with
C trachomatis is a major contribution to the development of the disease, we are now working on establishing a method of distinguishing DNA in cancer cells to prove that a combination could be responsible for the mutation and cellular change in cells, our studies have shown that HPV when combined with chlamydia caused a unique cellular reprogramming of the host cells several genes are affected by the pathogens in different ways and subsequently altered the genes responsible which regulate DNA damage repair and our studies have shown that persistence of HPV and chlamydia in stem cells adversely affect the genomic stability and promote neoplasm progression .
Hugs Jules x.
C trachomatis is a Chlamydia species of bacteria. Usually it is routinely swab tested for young adults only along with a pap test. It is done only for ages up to 25 yrs old. If it contributes to the development of cancer along with HPV, then why is an HPV test and a Chlamydia test not offered as a screening to ALL women who WANT it?
In many localities, chlamydia is a reportable disease to government public health.
Also does it make sense to do a pap test with a brush and scrape around the cervical Os and stick a prickly brush up there so the entire transformation zone of the cervix gets cell damage and a good helping of microbes that may cause cancer?
Chlamydia can be also tested by a urine test. Apparently there was also a urine test for HPV which was discontinued. The treatment for chlamydia is an oral antibiotic, very simple.
It clearly looks like the medical system doesn’t want women to have a simple and non-invasive way to protect themselves from the disease.
For the same reason, it doesn’t cease to puzzle me: why is there no HPV test for men?
After all, the vast majority of women get HPV infections from none other than their male partners.
Sure, an HPV infection has a much greater potential to hurt a woman than a man. But why is there no way for each couple, and especially for each woman, to assess their risk before the woman gets infected?
Why are women denied the opportunity to make an informed decision about a sexual contact with an HPV-infected male partner?
Why does the medical system have the attitude “men should just enjoy their sex lives, and women should have their genitalia under medical surveillance forever”?
There are many men who care about their partners, and would rather wait until their HPV infection clears than infecting the woman they love. But the medical system denies them the chance to know their HPV status.
Also, why is there still no home test for HPV?
If 80% of people get infected with HPV, then it is far more common than even Covid! Yet Covid home tests were developed within a year, and are now available everywhere. But there is still no easy, independent, anonymous home self-test for HPV.
The medical system clearly prefers to have women under surveillance, harvest their personal data with every HPV test, keep records of everything, and not miss any opportunity have women naked on the examination table.
If women’s health really was their priority, HPV home tests would be developed years ago and now sold in every supermarket.
Hi Ellie,
Luckily, there have been home HPV tests released! In the US, they can be found on NurX, Everlywell, and MyLabBox. Next year, Teal Health will be releasing FDA approved home paps/HPV tests. They have a waitlist to sign up for on their website (getteal.com is the site) and they expect to be a women’s telehealth platform, which is fantastic.
In the UK and Ireland, I believe the website Lets Get Checked has home tests as well.
It’s unfortunate these tests are not widely known. I’ve used the “cervical cancer screening using HPV” test from MyLabBox as my very first screening ever and it was great. A non-event but an experience to share with others to encourage self-empowerment and keep women from potential trauma and medical abuse .
Hi Mae,
By “home HPV tests” I mean completely independent, anonymous, self-contained test kits that could be used by the person without any involvement of the medical establishment. When the tested person is the only one who is in complete control of all information and decisions. As far as I know, such tests do not exist (although I would be very happy to learn that I am wrong).
If you are talking about self-collected test samples, which are then sent to a lab together with the person’s identity details, and the results are then entered into health surveillance databases and shared with doctors and other medical bureaucrats, then that option already exists in several countries, including Australia. Self-collected samples are of course better than being raped with a speculum at the doctor’s office, but the woman still ends up in the system, under surveillance, and under pressure of their relentless campaigns and reminders.
The fact that you mentioned waitlists and website sign up indicates that you talking about the latter, not the former. Unfortunately.
The true home tests would not require any sign ups, waiting lists or telehealth. They would be available off the shelf in any supermarket or pharmacy, like Covid tests are available today.
Good morning everyone,
I have just seen this on a BBC website, further evidence that this test is next to useless:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65299210?at_medium=social&at_link_id=24CAFE94-DD1F-11ED-B359-715DAD7C7D13&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_ptr_name=twitter
Jess
As if the NHS hasn’t got enough to deal with. This is beginning to sound like the uselss masks which don’t shut out COVID and the jabs which don’t really work. As long as someone makes a lot of money out of it. I’m sure some private medical firm will take this job on and charge the NHS heavily. An absolute waste of time and taxpayers money. They say several women have died, but over what period of time? Are we talking last couple of decades or what? We know that even with frequent screening a few women will still develop this cancer and die from it. Even the screening lobby admits this. Someone milking another opportunity to raise funds for the increasingly irrelevant Jo’s Tosh and a private laboratory that wants the work.
Ada I know I say this every time but I LOVE the Jos Tosh name!!!😺
I’m sure they know about it!
Hi adawells,
In your post you pointed out that some women develop cervical cancer even though they underwent testing, this is something I’m working on at the minute to find out the actual number of women percentage wise that attend testing but are still diagnosed with the disease, but boy do they make this difficult it’s almost impossible to find from the information they release as it’s something that they probably don’t want in the public domain.
But it won’t stop me trying.
Hugs Jules x.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050052119301015
Hi Jules, I don’t think they will ever publish that figure, but it is deducible from looking at a few papers like this one. In the section on “The Pap. smear” about halfway in, it says that with regular screening, adhering to the recommended screening intervals, cervical cancer incidence and mortality have been reduced by 70% in developed countries. So this implies 30% have been regular screeners but still got this cancer and have died from it. Other papers seem to give a similar figure of about a quarter to 30%. High profile media cases, like the one in Ireland recently, claim high financial damages for victims of “mis-read” slides, but it often comes out that the test is not infallible and it is likely that these women were in the unlucky 30% who got this disease anyway.
These figures were from before the introduction of HPV vaccinations, which came in about 2012 in the UK, resulting in a near 100% reduction of HPV in young women of today, so the screening programme is a complete waste of time for anybody under about 35. As this is the age by which most women have picked up the virus, this disease looks like being eradicated completely in coming years. I think Australia was on target to be cervical cancer free by 2030. I think the only reason they are continuing to screen women is to measure how effective the vaccination programme has been. There really isn’t any justification for keeping it going.
Mae in the UK there are HPV home tests the retailer Superdrug offers one for around £50 and I believe there’s others as well, obviously though the medics don’t point this out to women! It use to be in irh UK doctors got financial incentives the more women they persuaded to have smears, and would kick refuseniks off their lists, dunno if. The incentives still in place or not
Hi Kat, the incentives are still very much in place, cervical screening is on the QOF list. In fact, GP’s were offered double points when the programme was rebooted after lockdown.
Cervical screening uptake is also one of the things practices are audited on, so a low uptake is bad for their ratings.
Kate groan silly me should have guessed!! Of all the backlogs and queues left from COVID they could tackle they chuck money at smear tests and GP financial incentives to get us to get smears! 🪓
Hi all! So I recently went off the pill after being on it for about 6 and a half years. I was on it originally to help with my horrible cycles I once had, then I got married and used it both to help my cycles and also to prevent pregnancy. I took natural measures to help balance and ease my cycles, and they have helped immensely!! I didn’t need the help of any doctor that would just push an unnecessary pap on me and get me nowhere! 😜
I have completely cut out toxic seed oils (vegetable oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, soybean oil, etc) which are highly inflammatory which was probably one of the main causes in the severe cramps I used to get, and I have been consuming more raw milk, red meat, and organ supplements. I have also been taking this natural herbal supplement from Elix, which has been my magic medicine to balancing my cycles and making them normal again without using drugs. Yay! Here is the website for anyone interested. It is a monthly subscription, just so you all know.
https://elixhealing.com/
So, with that all being said and done, my only concern is preventing pregnancy. I wanted to get off the pill because I know it’s not good to be on it long term, but I still don’t want to have kids yet. Does anyone know of any natural birth control methods that actually work, besides pulling out and using condoms? I heard neem oil or neem capsules are highly effective. I recently purchased a bottle of neem capsules which the warning label specifically said “warning: reproductive harm” and the reviews even said “if you are trying to get pregnant, do not use this product.” I would love to know your input. Thank you, have a wonderful day, and keep this page as awesome as it’s always been!
For preventing pregnancy without any doctor-controlled methods, condoms are the best option.
If you want to be near 100% safe, then it’s condoms + avoiding sex during ovulation (if your cycle is regular and/or you can definitely feel when your ovulation is approaching). Neem oil and other snake oils are a recipe for disaster when it comes to a reliable protection from an unwanted pregnancy.
Hi ladies,
Every time I venture on the internet to try to find something new out on testing, breakthroughs, new interventions or specific numbers , that bloody charity Jo’s seems to be involved on any search I undertake, they must be absolutely bloody terrified that the screening number’s are going to keep declining and jeopardise their incomes .
Maybe they could improve the figures if they tried a new approach a new information leaflet for instance (something like this)
Important information for all women,
This does not apply to women in compliance with the cervical cancer screening program , this leaflet is to target those fucking ungrateful hoe’s among you who either ignore or bin you’re invitations, do you realise that this service costs £ 750,000.000 per year to run and you feel that it’s your right to refuse it, do you want to see your poor gp driving round in a two year old car because of his diminished income for not reaching his smear bonus target, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Ok so the test is only 71% accurate, and you do get the odd false negative and the occasional false positive, plus there’s some of you ungrateful bitches that might find this somewhat painful, undignified, embarrassing and humiliating, I’d like to point out that our nurses are trained to babble incessantly about all sorts of crap to take your mind off the fact that you are lying there with everything hanging out while they are fiddling around with your intimate’s, ok so it doesn’t find every case of cancer , but that’s only around 30% and another 100,000 are treated to colposcopy biopsies for nothing, in our minds it’s better to be safe than sorry so that trivial matter of snipping bits off your cervix without anaesthesia is really quite irrelevant it’s for your own good, so pull yourself together
and book now.
Maybe they should try something like this because they’ve tried everything else .
Hugs Jules x.
LOL This is priceless! 😀
I laughed so hard over your post. Priceless and deserves an award. Sign me up for the torture paps. I am ready. There is nothing more than I want to contribute to the world than helping a doctor get a brand new car. 🙂 Poor thing having to drive a two year old car.
Does anyone know where Elizabeth from australia posts nowadays? She used to frequently post good info on here, but seems to have gone. I hope she is ok.
I’ve wondered the same thing. At one time Elizabeth was one of the pillers of this forum. Hope she is well.
She is one human being I would love to meet and shake hands with, and I think of her often in total admiration. Ever since the late 1980s I’d had serious misgivings about the UK cervical screening programme and had always thought it was downright illegal how it was operating, but it seemed I was the only soul in the country who thought like that. Suddenly, with the arrival of the internet, here was Eliz. fighting this system of oppression and bullying, with hard evidence and intelligent argument. It was the voice of freedom and reason, and she is greatly missed. Hoping that she is enjoying the newly won victories we are gaining from this vile programme which are finally taking place.
Hi ladies,
This site has many amazing women on it, I for one have learned so, so much and will feel forever thankful. But this was never going to be a sprint, going against decades of “medical reccomendation’s ” was never going to be the easy option and should be looked at as more of a relay race Eliz has run her leg and has now passed on the baton for others, it takes up a great amount of time to find and then clarify information and all the information Eliz passed on would have been a sizeable amount of her free time , this incredible woman has done so much for this site and the mantel should now be shouldered by the rest of us, and I for one wish her a peaceful, happy and content life . (But it would be really nice if she just popped in to say hi).
Hugs Jules x.
I hope Elizabeth has a happy life, but she’s been such a powerhouse in the fight for honesty and informed consent in women’s healthcare her absence is deeply felt. There are a few other posters who haven’t been on here in a while I wish would check in – Kiwicelt from NZ, Linda from the UK and Beth from the US.
Ii miss Elizabeth too. She was the voice of reason and steel!
The NSW Cervical Screening register are trawling the electoral roll again. I got a letter in the mail informing me I must make an appointment with my GP to have a pap smear. Haha, yeah – no. I saw red with that!!!!
I rang them up and demanded they remove me entirely from their register as I don’t screen and had NOT opted in.
The woman I spoke to said that’s ok, when I have my next pap smear just tell the doctor I don’t want to be in the register.
I said no, I don’t do smears AT ALL. I said it’s a rare cancer using an inaccurate test. Remove me from your register now please.
Stunned silence.
To her credit she removed me from the register and I got a letter in the post confirming I had been removed. Thank god.
After opting out MANY years ago, (I’m also in NSW), I also got the letter telling me I MUST book in, I was so upset about it, as this is a big trigger in my anxiety getting letters like this. I rang and opted out AGAIN and got the letter confirming. I also asked why if I’ve opted out, am I getting letters, isn’t that against some sort of privacy rules? She couldn’t tell me.
Not you too! Damn.
I think the overall screening numbers are going down as more women realise this test isn’t mandatory, it’s a rare cancer and they can assess their own risk. Which means the vested interests are scrambling to up the numbers, hence the letters.
It’s been awhile since I posted I wondered where some of the frequent posters went too. And Alex he was one too. I don’t like to talk about this subject for obvious reasons with just every one. I’m glad this is a place I never felt judged questioning “woman’s “health”. The amount of woman that have been piping up on my tictok feed crying about colops screening in pain with no pain management. They think they are doing the right thing and taking care of their health. One lady said a nurse heals her down screening in pain. There are other stories. It made me cry I’m not going to lie . Anyway I’m not an expert on this stuff but learned a lot from the woman and men on this site through the years. Hope everyone is doing well.
Good morning people, this just came up in suggested videos on Youtube:
Looks like numbers of people going forward are in decline once again so this patronising cow presents a video asking for people to take part in a survey. I don’t live in Bromley but I filled it in anyway with my views on why I don’t get screened.
Jess
Hi jess,
I love the fact that she tells you that you have a choice and the accuracy of the test as well of the pitfalls of the exam (NOT).
I left a comment and filled in the survey too! Staggering that they cannot accept that some women simply don’t want screening and choose to focus on lack of provision.
If you’re overdue, or know someone who is? So she wants viewers to start harassing people in their lives who may have very good reasons for not attending?
Hi Oz and julieSt
I’ve come to believe that it’s not for the well-being of women anymore, their motive is purely for self survival, hence why they are constantly trying it on .
Taking a stand , becoming more aggressive , raising your voice at them seems to be the only time they accept your decision and back off, maybe this is the attitude we should all show hopefully you have started a trend.
Hugs Jules x.
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n280
Don’t know if any of you can get to the full text of this, but they don’t give up trying to keep themselves in business do they. In UK, planning an HPV test after age 65 before they leave you alone, admittedly they suggest offering a self test for this. Still quoting that figure of 5,000 lives saved every year by J Peto, who is regurgitating his past speculative estimate from days of yore in this paper. Seems the screening age in Australia has gone up to 74. If I reach 74 there are many other things I’d worry about than cervical cancer. I thought cervical cancer was supposed to be extinct by 2030 in Australia? There is 1 comment from a misguided enthusiast under the responses, quoting the fanatical “Behind the Screen” report from Jo’s Tosh of many years ago. Wonder what happened to that author…
UK ladies Daily fail today usual offering, childminders offering free childcare while mums get their smear, as one third aren’t up to date and risk leaving their children motherless….
Thats incredible, I don’t have any children but if I did I would use this service then bunk of the smear and go for an afternoon in the pub. If the childminder asked why I had been so long I would just say they were running late again!
Hi ladies,
Having been “associated ” with this amazing group of women for a couple of years now, I thought that nothing could possibly catch me off guard , it seems that I was wrong, apparently in Sweden the choice of gender preference for an intimate exam is being denied to women , since females have been “allowed” to practice in medicine and their numbers have grown especially in the gyn/ ob side of things the male side have claimed that this was discrimination and has diminished their incomes and threatened to take it through the court, so now when women get an appointment it’s pot luck who they get .
Something similar happened in the USA a doctor called
Mircea veleanu brought a legal challenge against his former employer stating that they were the ones “ discriminating against him” by accommodating women that expressed a preference for a female gyno
So while these self righteous, self pitiful pieces of garbage practice medicine we still have a long way to go .
Hugs Jules x.
Bloody hell Jules, that’s disgusting. I don’t go to an Ob-Gyn, but if I made an appointment and asked for a female doctor, then I turned up and found a male doctor, I’d walk out. But it takes guts and self-respect to do that, something a lot of women are embarrassed to do.
Unfortunately, women are socially ‘trained’ to not make a fuss and put up with how they’re treated, so a lot of them would suck it up and go ahead with letting the male doctor do their appointment as that’s what a ‘good girl’ does. And we all know that’s how a lot of abuse gets enabled.
So awful.
“We’d really love to hear from those who struggle to attend their cervical screening (smear) tests”
tweets @DrJoMorrison1 on Twitter an hour ago. Where to begin!
I was going to reply but would run out of space in a tweet!
What I simply cannot stand is this language they use around screening. That phrase “their screening/their smears” in particular. It assumes we accept these tests as a normal part of our bodily processes, like periods. It is a medical test. We never hear doctors refer to “our” blood tests/x-rays/dental checks. The final insult is that she can’t understand why women struggle with attending. She can’t accept that any intelligent woman would consider her risks and make a sensible decision not to bother testing. It is herself who struggles to understand she’s onto a lost cause and her patients know more than she does.
I just tried to message her directly on Twitter but she does not allow direct messages! Priceless, I would be more than happy to have a chat with her in Whatsapp or something similar and recalibrate her default settings.
Hi adawells,
I’m afraid I won’t be answering
Dr jo Morrison as there aren’t enough hours in the day to complete this question sorry
Hugs Jules x.
Of course a woman choosing to have these “intimate exams” should have a choice of a male or female doctor (and I’ve known many who actually prefer a male). What’s unfortunate is that women don’t ask hard questions about what they actually gain from these invasive exams no matter who is performing them – they are of low sensitivity, low specificity, low clinical value and expose the patient to all kinds of false positives and the resulting medical merry-go-round that follows.
Hi ladies,
I’m still trying to pick my chin up off the floor , it’s finally happened on may 10th in the USA the FDA have announced that they have approved the mini pill made by opill for sale over the counter to be made available by the summer without prescription wow happy days
Hugs Jules x.
Oh dear ladies here we go again. Daily fail today. Doncaster woman dies after forgetting to re arrange her cancelled smear. Her dad keeps repeating he wants everyone to remember to book and its so important to remember and attend.
Also it said in the article next month is cervical screening awareness month….I might just hibernate. As I said before I’m sure even the space aliens ON Mars and the long dead stone age people are aware of smear tests. I’m just sick of reading the bull $$$$ and having them rammed down my throat. ..
When I messaged Jo Morrison about why I dont attend I got a curt reply back saying I have to respond through the survey
Hi jess,
Nice one, to be honest I wouldn’t of expected anything else but a rebuff from her it’s all about them demanding that we do as they say because they know best, well I beg to differ many women on this site have taken the time and effort to inform themselves through studies of research papers and scientific review’s and could now stand their ground against these so called experts in a stand up argument.
Hi there all,
Good news from The USA’s healthgrades site. Only 35% of women in the past year had an gyno appointment. link is https://www.healthgrades.com/womenshealth?cid=63emWomensPledge Sounds to me others are finally realizing that they don’t need it, and don’t consent to it. I don’t like healthgrades’ attitude about the whole article though- for any doctor, especially gynos, if it too instrusive it might be too much for the person. What about consent too? don’t like when sites like this don’t consider that.
Hi sunflowergal 22,
I’m looking at the legal aspect of consent at the moment and healthcare professionals are on very thin ice where patients are concerned due to large numbers of patient (mostly women) complaints the guidelines on treatment had to be revised in 2018 by the quality care commission and new legislation brought in which updated the health and social care act of 2008 regulated activities.
Now consent actually has its own section known as regulation 11,
This covers all the aspects of consent, and stipulates that the patient must consent to any proposed exam or treatment, that the pro’s and cons must be explained in detail so that the patient can understand, the nature of the exam or treatment and what exactly will occur during the procedure, and the expectations for the findings of such test or treatment, and that consent is given freely and not influenced by family, friends or medical staff
Anything less than this is not Informed consent and they then leave themselves open to disciplinary and LEGAL proceedings
So if you are having a hard time off one of these people and have refused a test but they keep pressing just say , do you realise that you are in breach of the health and social care act regulation 11 of 2018 and then smile as you look at the complete blank look on their face .
Hugs Jules xx.
Daily fail today ladies, latest brainwave to educate people about cancer is to post info about cancer and screening onto toilet rolls and underwear , so soon maybe our “invitations ” for smears might be imprinted on our Andrew instead of the cute puppy lol…..seriously I heard it all now….
Hi kat,
We had a good laugh at your post, who do they get to think this stuff up. The other half bought me some underwear for Xmas but I don’t know how you could possibly put a message on them as there’s less material than Blackbeard’s eye patch ( I think they were more for his benefit than mine) and as for loo role the mind just boggles.
Hugs Jules x.
Jules I guess when you think what ends up on loo roll it’s a bit apt, if u get my meaning, 4 letter word beginning S….
There is a film making its way across the US right now.
Called “At Your Cervix”.
Discusses all things we’re concerned about.
I just read the article and literally laughed out loud. But seriously… I’m so sick and tired of these initiatives and ideas that never actually seem to save any lives but just continue to infantilise adults.
Caroline, we have another cervical hysteria week coming up next week. I’ve already seen plenty about it here in Wales, they are arguing lack of investment in the valleys and poor public transport are a significant barrier to people attending screening, still they don’t seem to realise ppl might not even WANT the screening even if a centre rolled up in their garden……
I’ve honestly not seen anything about cervical hysteria week this time. I’m SOO glad I seem to have missed it lol
Hi ladies,
Some ladies here may find this post hard to swallow (literally)
A gp from Somerset called dr Nickolas Chapman has been on trial , after an employee complained to the police.
Apparently after a new employee joined the surgery ,the dr’s behaviour changed he had started to come in early as he said “to help out ”, to do this he offered to make the morning coffees , the employee complained to other staff that her coffee tasted off and a little salty and when she had finished her drink there appeared to be a residue at the bottom of the mug she decided to take the mug home with her and contacted the police as she believed that the dr had put some kind of drug in her drink , the police took the mug away for analysis and after this contacted the employee to tell her the residue was seminal fluid
at that the employee told the police she wanted to press charges the dr was arrested and had to submit to a DNA sample and it was a match, on the stand the dr said he was bewildered and mystified as to how this was possible . (I think that I have a pretty good idea) . If you’re in a loving and caring relationship you want to please your partner in the bedroom and oral sex is pleasurable and enjoyable (a lot) friends say it’s an acquired taste
but that’s with a partner of your choice, I don’t think that this applies if it’s your employer and he gets you to ingest semen into your digestive tract secretly
some people could find this funny others may well heave ,
myself ? hi kat have you got a spare vomit bag handy please.
Hugs Jules x.
Jules I’ll send you some bags, that is beyond disgusting! Just shows what medics(and even bosses) think of their staff, words fail me
Here we are ladies, daily fail today, 8 warning signs of cervical cancer and how it’s a cruel disease same old, only 19 comments so far, Jules I’ll share your sick bag if you don’t mind….
Send me link. I have time to write today.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12209765/Eight-warning-signs-cervical-cancer-revealed.html#comments
I tried Kat. But the Daily Fail won’t take more comments and their computer refused to accept my letter.
But while writing this, I looked up and saw the comment re the sex toy material used to create a new large speculum. And my mind got to working…
Why not just do this?
Take a used tampon to the doctor. Make sure it’s soaked, loaded, and chunky.
Simply hold up your baggie and tell them it’s fresh and loaded with cells from both your cervix, endocervical canal, and uterus. An all in one.
Oh how I’d love to see their faces…
If you have a chance, would you please add my comment to anything the Fail pushes re CC Month. Or how about we call it MM or molester’s month.
Hi ladies,
I’ve just been to the daily fail website to read the article kat mentioned, please scroll down after reading this and you will see that Ann summers the sex shop chain have saved womankind the have come up with a new user friendly speculum with a blade size no bigger than their best selling sex toy the rampant rabbit, and best of all it’s made of the same material as the sex toy and ingeniously it’s pink , so that’s it
then all problems solved all they
have to do now is a variation of bring your own bottle on their invitation’s to include bring your own speculum they are available to buy from the 19th June to coincide with awareness week so don’t all rush to get one (puke)
Second thought; maybe we should supply those speculums to the medical industries. At least they would be forced to recognize us as women with a sexual identity instead of the dehumanizing rapes we receive now.
Unfortunately, as we all know however, most of the doctors wouldn’t know what to do with anything that could help a woman or give her pleasure.
Jules, I shall develop a new line in pink vomit bags…..a pink speculum? Ewwwww
Hi Everyone, Some of you might remember I posted a few weeks back about a survey that was being conducted and you could fill it it as to why you dont attend and/or what could be done to make attending easier. I filled the survey in and incredibly someone emailed me back and asked if I could do a face to face call! The call took place and the woman on the end of the phone at first seemed genuinely concerned as to why I dont go and I gave the overview about it being invasive, inaccurate, etc. The next question was on the lines of “what can we do to make it easier for you to attend” as soon as I said nothing she lost interest in me and tried to end the call. I did manage to mention the home screening that is done in Australia and she said she had never heard of it. Overall the call was 30 minutes of my life that I wont get back again but maybe I have managed to get my point across…
Jess
Well good for you!!! Kudos!!! She is a lousy interviewer. She gave up her sole reason for the insincere call. “What could we do to make you attend?”
Yes. You burned them and you overwhelmed the interviewer’s thinking as well. You can bet on two outcomes. One, that woman went home and did her own research on home testing. Two, she was never expecting your kind of responses.
You planted the seed. If it germinates inside her, she’ll spread the word one way or another to her friends. Sorry that sounds sexual; it is what it is.
She will talk to her friends and her coworkers. She won’t easily forget this.
Thanks.
Hi jess,
Brilliant
Hi Everyone, sorry me again! Quick question regarding the invites. I have formally opted out of cervical screening (Yeehaaa!) however its around this time that I would be expecting my invitiation. Are they still sent out in those garish envelopes with the equally garish leaflet or are reminders now sent by text? I am on the starting blocks so that if one does arrive I will return the letter without a stamp on it and if I get a text message then I will complain to Offcom for harrassment.
Jess
Jess I think it’s pot luck! Some women here have said they carried on getting written invitations after their opt out, others had theirs dry up and never heard again
If you get an invitation you can tell them it’s actually illegal under data protection laws to continue to harass an opted out woman, and I think you can opt out of texts from your practice, though this could mean not getting reminded about things you might actually want!
I got to thinking. Don’t want to sound gross, but this is an interesting idea and I’d like feedback. Also, don’t hesitate to “offer” this as a solution when you get harassed by the committee trying to get you into the stirrups.
What is one thing we women can offer our so called medical protectors that would satisfy the “scrape” requirement of obtaining the bloody sample of our cervical tissue?
Every month we dilate slightly and shed inner skin. Including that of our cervix inside and out. Why, then can’t we offer them a used tampon? It would have blood, cells from the top of our uterus to the outside of our cervix and all in between. All they need to do is wash/spin the cells out.
Certainly if HPV can be detected in our urine (as my case) and in our blood, then why wouldn’t this work?
Well, we know it takes the fun out of the process for medical personnel. Bad for them; great for us. Would you please offer this to the NHS minions? Let’s see them fall off their chairs. Again.
Feedback?
Funny you mention the menstrual blood idea to detect HPV!
I saw this on a reddit post this week about a company that has developed a pad that collects menstrual blood to test for HPV: https://qvin.com/
I like this idea even more than the self-swabbing.
As Elvis would say, “What a ‘whole’ new way of being on the rag…”
Now if they can use menstrual blood for that, then why also for endometrial cancer? I believe a university in Israel is working on or has come out with something to that effect.
The catch? How long before they mainstream? Will the FDA demand a Phase trial that will take an extra five years? This should be fast tracked. It’s a win-win twofer.
Sure beats the nonsense they tried four years ago. Trying to expand our pap scrapes for that purpose. No thanks.
As for men? Think we have problems a prostate biopsy is a major deal. Because they put spring loaded (think colposcopy…pain) “device” up the ass once location on ultrasound is performed. It’s like…well…we know what it’s like. But for them it’s like getting a gun shot up the ass. Actually several.
So if the same company could come out with prostate cancer (biopsy quality cells) via urine or semen so much the better. Even though the PSA can indicate cancer it isn’t specific to type, aggressive vs not, and staging.
Passive collection is much better for guys too. Do an MRI to figure out stage. The biopsy just spreads it locally…and then some.
Cat n mouse I seem to remember that in India this is a way they test for HPV, In the villages women bring their used products to the test centre!!
So it’s a brilliant idea, maybe the younger among us could promote it, as at 59 I’m firmly post menopausal!! But you are so right, there are now so many alternatives to the speculum exam and none are being even piloted in trials
I opted out and the letters stopped, no chasers or anything. Just a letter confirming my opt-out status. I was almost impressed by their efficiency.
Something that might interest all of us.
In the US there’s a privately funded movie touring the states. It’s called “At Your Cervix” and it’s very, very educational.
Been reading this site for 5yrs, found it after avoiding my 1st two calls & thinking I could not avoid/put the dreaded test off a third time due to the “fact” of certain death without it. This site has been such a good support! The feeling of finally finding a site that is supportive & encourages critical thinking & questioning!
Always felt something was off, but was noone could even ponder this with… the militancy of the NHS over this one program, the obsession and paternalistic coersion – something always nagged & didn’t feel logical. And I need to know why I’m doing something, I’m obsessive about having full knowledge! I already had a fear & trauma from doctors as a child & teenager through leg and hip issues & having to get undressed infront of them, lack of consent and no-one ever talking directly to me (though thank god I never had to remove my underwear), so the test was something I dreaded since I heard of it. The fear was so bad, feeling I could not escape it, that I would actually have panic attacks from 16 to 24 whenever I thought of it. This ruined my chance of having relationships in my 20s, as I had issues with touch already from my experience with doctors, plus it just seemed like playing with death after all the fear promotion! It probably seems extreme, but I was already a very anxious person and traumatised through not have bodily autonomy as a teenager. I also could not talk to many people about it as people couldn’t understand why I was traumatised if other people weren’t and that I should just be grateful to the medics.
I never went for my first smear, then tried to go to the GP over severe depression 9yrs ago, just before the second call… & while I sat there crying uncontrollably, not having washed or brushed my hair, admitting I’d been starting to self-harm, cut myself & sometimes wished I was dead, the “lovely” GP, speaking in a tone of great concern, asked me why I’d never been for a smear, asked me if I knew how important it was, then offered to do it quickly right there, cause it wouldn’t take a minute!! I stuttered that I needed to talk about my mental health right now, and she encouraged me to have the smear again, then told me she could also fit me with a coil while she was doing it!!!! We finally got back on mental health & I agreed to see her again… No prizes for guessing… Next appointment was just her trying to get in my knickers again and I had to fight to get the subject back around! I didn’t go back to her & was lucky to get a doctor that asked once & took no as no… I was too scared to report the first GP and after this second doctor left the NHS, I literally avoided healthcare for 8yrs until recently when I requested an autism diagnosis I’d been wanting for 5yrs (I also wanted to know I could access healthcare if I needed it), but had not wanted to get sidetracked onto smears again.
Thanks to your website in the last 5yrs I have: been encouraged to greatly increase my personal research and become further informed, not only in this but in other healthcare matters… I have written to my former childhood hospital to state my experience and negative impact it has had… I sent a few long emails to my GP practise where the coercive doctor ignored my depression to divert the conversation (though unfortunately she’d retired, so I’d left it too late for a direct complaint), concluding in an argument when one of the male directors rang me, concerned by my accusations and I knew more information on consent, cancer stats, false negatives, etc than he did… I changed GP practise after my successful argument and immediately booked an appointment to take myself off the smear lettermill (never did go for one, but I’d previously been too scared to opt out)… I quoted them on consent when they didn’t ask me if medical students could be present, I told them their receptionist needed to be educated on basic humanity after the booking phonecall where she told me it would be my own fault if I got cancer and I handed the new GP a letter stating why I did not wish to talk about smears, including how I knew the statistics esp in relation to rarity and other more prevalent cancers such as lung, how their harassment of me on this subject had stopped me getting medical care for 8yrs and that I’d probably done more research than she had on this subject. Her look was absolutely priceless, didn’t know what to say! Thank you forwomenseyesonly! Sorry for the long comment, not good at expression x
Hi ZMV, and welcome!
We’re all about personal choice and facts here, as well as considering that our sanity and dignity are precious and not to be trampled all over.
Congrats for standing up for yourself. No doctor has the right to force you into anything. It’s your choice to have a smear, or not have a smear, and everyone else can butt out.
I don’t know what country you’re from but I’m Australian, and our doctors receive bonus payments and incentives to force as many women as possible into having smears, something which is very hush-hush. Facts are kept from us and we’re looked down upon as stupid and difficult if we say no to a smear.
It takes courage to consider the facts and your own situation and decide that smears are not for you, so congrats on your decision!
I realised a long time ago that things didn’t add up when doctors kept trying to force me to have a smear, so I did a lot of research and was shocked to find out that cervical cancer is very rare, the test is highly inaccurate and doctors get paid bonuses to do them.
Luckily, I was able to fend doctors off and I’ve never had a smear. Never. I feel lucky not to have been medically raped.
I have lots of heart issues in our family but NO doctor has ever cared or asked me about that. Never. It shocked me how much pap smears were obsessed over, and everything else wasn’t important, especially considering how rare cervical cancer is. And its NOT rare because of screeening, its rare because its honestly rare! In Australia, 500 to 700 women die each year from cervical cancer, out of a female population of approx. 12 million. Thats tiny!
When I requested a referral to see a heart specialist when I turned 40 (the age that I knew women in my family began to have problems) my doctor was confused (!!!!). I had to advocate for myself.
The heart specialist refused to see me unless I let him do a breast exam for breast cancer first. When I refused and said I was going to him for my heart, not my breasts, he cancelled my appointment. I never knew boobs were more important than your heart! I guess dying from heart attacks is acceptable but breast cancer isn’t….? I blame the emphasis on boobs and vaginas by the medical profession. I think thats all they see women as. We don’t have any other bits, apparently.
Anyway, welcome! 🙂
Being denied care for a heart condition because he can’t examine your breasts is the wildest thing I’ve heard for a long time. Absolutely insane.
Welcome to this website, ZMV! It is good to hear from people who have been following the site for years and reading our discussions. Good to know that others are finding us and feel at home with the voices of discontent over this harmful screening test which has been forced on UK women since 1988. I’m in the UK and had had to dodge healthcare for years after having 3 tests forced on me at the time of having children. Eventually, I was telephoned one day in 2003 and when I told them I had no intention of ever having one again, I was surprised to be offered an opt out form in the post which I gleefully filled out and handed into my local surgery in person, so they had no excuse to say that they’d never received it.
In the NHS GPs are given incentive payments under the Quality Outcomes Framework to hit an 80% quota of smears. Cervical cancer is so rare that a minimum of 80% of the female population needs to be tested for the screening programme to make any difference at all to not screening. Hence the constant battering for everyone to attend, or the screening programme isn’t viable or cost effective. As the uptake nationally is barely 70% the programme is failing every year. Cases of cervical cancer were in decline before the programme began and HPV vaccinations have now made the disease almost obsolete in young women. The propaganda that this programme saves 5,000 lives every year is utter nonsense and made by those who make loads of money from screening.
It is your right to choose whether or not to have a smear test, and you have a right not to be pestered at every GP visit for other conditions.
In the NHS brochure which is supposed to be sent out with every invitation, there are brief details of how to opt out. It is a legal requirement that you are told how you can decline to test, and what you need to do to opt out of further requests, but they keep that info well hidden on the leaflet until the very last page, if they send them out at all nowadays. I had a lot of trouble with being pestered, bullied and assaulted by this testing in the 1990s. It makes me so cross to hear that it is still going on today. Stay strong and hope you are successful in finding freedom from this test.
In the USA staff will tell you that the doctor “will go to jail” if he doesn’t pap scrape you. So one day my husband asked the nurse which law that fell under so he could read it. The nurse refused to speak to him again.
It took my husband the two phone calls with the nurse and three more with the doctor. The doctor kept trying five-syllable words to distract but my husband finally told him that if my knee locked in the stirrups I’d be taken out through an office window as there would be no way to get me down the stairs and every news copter would be circling above.
That did it. The doctor ordered the urine hpv test I wanted.
When my husband returned to the office to pick it up for me, another doctor was there and asked why any woman would pick that vs screening in office. When my husband quickly informed him that I prefer 93% accuracy over 50%, that I hate the pain and humiliation, the doctor was left standing with his mouth gaping.
There’s rarely a time when such a good feeling comes over a patient than when herself or her husband (or sig other) successfully advocates over this Nazi authority.
Where can info. on urine hpv be found? I didn’t know one existed.
Delphi Screener is the one I’d prefer.
However, go back about two months on these comments. Another reader found one online. I’ll go through my records as well.
I am still looking back. Haven’t given up.
However, I did come across some news about the HPV vaccines we all should read.
It goes in four parts. Go look in Epoch Health at The Epoch Times. It discusses heavy metals in Gardasil and side effects among other things.
Hi ZMV,
You are more than welcome on this site, you’re story simply echoes the stories of many of the women already here, the neglect of needed treatment in preference for an inaccurate test for a rare cancer , and I for one commend you on doing research and having the presence of mind to decide for yourself what’s best for you, you are a welcome addition to the “family ”
Hugs Jules x.
ZMV,
If you are close to menopause, don’t let them put you on Premarin nor any of its generics. It’s made from mare urine and there’s more and different estrogens there than what humans were designed for.
Get bio-identical HRT such as estradiol and progesterone. Ensure your pharmacist verifies that what you receive is bio identical. There are some who don’t think it’s necessary (both doctors and pharmacists) and others who don’t understand.
Never also trust any doctor who wants to do a procedure on you with the friendly claim “hurts no more than mild or average period cramps”.
To be kind, that’s word vomit.
The cruelty that comes from making Premarin (Pregnant Mare Urine) is horrendous. I will refuse to take it.
Mares are forcibly impregnated then kept standing up in stalls (no lying down, no turning around, and often all they have to look at is a wall) so their urine containing the pregnancy hormones can be collected and distilled into Premarin.
Their foals are then ripped from them and killed so the whole process can start again.
Pfizer is the worst culprit for this and they moved their operations to China to avoid the scrutiny that this cruelty is.
I plan to use synthetic or plant- based hormones if I need to, but I’ll try and manage without it.
Forgot to add – it makes me sick to see women’s media promote Premarin as a good drug to take. Rarely does any media outlet mention anything about the cruelty involved in making it.
I remember reading The Women’s Weekly once where they happily had an article on how Premarin transformed women’s lives and every woman going through menopause should take it (!!!!).
Sadly, when I ask women what they know about HRt and Premarin, many have no idea how mares are abused, or that it even comes from horses as doctors never mention it. Many think it’s a laboratory made drug.
I’ve just started menopause, and so far it’s okay to the point where I won’t be taking anything. I had no idea about Premarin, that’s horrific. I’ve been on a bit of an emotional roller coaster, and I’ve started having daily hot flushes (that wake me up but only last like 15 seconds), but other than that, I’m soldiering on. And I also haven’t had a pap smear since 2009, and won’t be having any more. Ever.
Hormone replacement therapy also raises the risk of breast cancer.
Exactly. That’s why you need bio-identical HRT.
I am using it. I want my mind to stay sharp and before I began my husband and I noticed changes. It’s better for my bones, my brain, and my vagina. I get screened. I am able to enjoy sex again and have multiple climaxes as before.
Hi Everyone,
I have read a lot of patronising articles on smear tests and cervical over the years but this is probably the best/worse one yet:
https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/health/hartlepool-and-stockton-gps-bid-to-increase-uptake-in-cervical-smear-service-to-save-lives-4173754
“None of us like having our smear test, but please, put yourself first and have yours. Smears really save lives,” said Vicky Holt, Director of Nursing, Hartlepool and Stockton Health.
For goodness sake…….
These articles continuously miss the point and it’s so insulting. For one, some simply do NOT want these exams. Full stop. Why isn’t that enough?
Secondly, the constant admittance of “nobody likes the smear test” without addressing making it less invasive is aggravating. Like wow! We know you hate this and it’s extremely violating, but how dare you not want it anyway! Selfish for risking the 0.8% chance of cancer!
I have run out of room on paper to keep tally marks on that “nobody likes the smear test” line. These people are so dense—why weren’t the home tests and blood tests created years ago if they cared so much about “saving” people from cervical cancer. Instead, let’s gaslight women for not wanting this barbaric test that hasn’t changed for 100 years and get pissed when they won’t open their legs for us! Sick
One consolation from all these pathetic and insulting campaigns is that they are an indication that attendance rates are still falling or they wouldn’t be doing them. Good to know they’re feeling that women are doing very well without them. These practice nurses must have a lot of time on their hands. I’m sure they could be better employed elsewhere, such as elderly care.
It is extremely violating, and the fact of the matter is that even if cervical cancer really was the major health threat they try to say it is, many women would still avoid the test because of its invasive nature. It’s an uncomfortable, humiliating procedure even under the best of circumstances but instead of replacing it with something more acceptable, these clueless assholes just keep gaslighting.
Exactly. And I’m tired of the patronizing comments such as “the doctor has seen many vaginas” or “you just need to find a doctor you’re comfortable with.” Um no. I don’t care if God himself was performing the exam. None of these words nor are the suggestions going to make me feel comfortable or take away from the violating nature that the test is. We are talking about having women spread eagle and have objects inserted in them (mind you, without actual informed consent). Pap smears are one of the very few procedures in medical history that have remain unchanged for a CENTURY. Think about that. I don’t think WE are the problem here.
Many years ago my husband went with me to get antibiotic. The nurse began her usual educational nonsense speech about the importance of pap scraping every year. So my husband caught her off balance, asking when she last had her own.
She admitted spontaneously that it had been over five years.
My husband replied, “so it’s either not that important to you or it’s just not that important period. Especially in the view of a Registered Nurse”.
She winked and whispered back, “just don’t tell anybody”.
Hi ladies,
It may well be my sense of humour but these awareness campaigns no longer bother me, in fact I find them rather amusing and can’t wait to see what else new they’ve come up with, I mean they have just about emptied the barrel, they have tried using fear, coercion, belittling, opportunist attempts,
ridicule, and even insults by saying that many of the unattended invites are by women at the lower scale of education,
I’m waiting for the day they announce that you get a free bottle of wine with every smear,
I might be tempted by this (not)
I think bribery is the only one they’ve missed
, but in reality any project that fails by 33% year upon year (and that failure rate is increasing )
for more than two decades would of had the bullet long ago .
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
Pretty much everyone in the UK has heard of the scandal of the maternity services at the Telford and shreswsbury hospital trust, but breaking news this morning is that another hospital is under investigation the university hospital Nottingham is being investigated for complaints that at the minute total 1,700 cases and the inquiry expects that this could increase to over 2,000 , this as it stands is over 300 more complaints than at the Telford and Shrewsbury trust , it’s not really surprising as some of the “minor”complaints that have been registered with the hospital are where women in later stages of labour have been confronted by groups of trainees being paraded into the room while they are exposed and midwifes and doctors refusing admission to maternity wards for patients if they refuse an internal exam , and if they are admitted they are told there birthing partners will not be allowed in if they don’t conform to an exam, one said that a doctor said that he must carry out a cervical check to monitor her progress to which she said that she didn’t consent but the doctor carried on anyway with the midwife holding her legs open, at the time a contraction had just started and she said the pain was horrendous and she kept repeating that she didn’t consent but was ignored, wtf is wrong with these assholes, I’m afraid that if that were me I would stop shouting I don’t consent to screaming rape, I really hope that a lot of these abusers are sacked or jailed, I’m that mad at the minute I’m shaking. If these assholes ignore consent what’s the point of telling everybody they have autonomy.
Hugs Jules x.
Socialized. Medicine.
It’s interesting. Our for-profit system in the US is deeply flawed, but I think that to some extent we are considered “consumers” as much as patients, and that is beneficial.
That’s an interesting point, Judy. I must say I have found Americans to be far more knowledgeable about medical procedures than British patients. If you’re going to be sent an itemised bill for thousands of $ you must get quite smart about what the procedures are and want to know whether they’re worth it. In the UK the patient is appallingly ignorant of the medical procedures they are being put through and why. There was a time not so long ago when some NHS groups were notifying patients of how much their treatment would have cost if they had to pay for it by sending them a letter itemising the costs and most were completely taken aback at the expense involved. I get very cross about people who abuse the system. A lot of people get doctor’s appointments because they are lonely and too lazy to buy a cheap packet of aspirin from a shop. They can get it for free if they see a doctor and drug prescriptions are free for the over 60s.
Hi ladies,
On a happier note the disgraced doctor Larry Nassar (the one convicted of child molesting) has been stabbed in prison during a disturbance, I just love karma don’t you .
Thank you for this informative site, I am so grateful. I was contending with anxiety as per usual because of an upcoming pap. Previously I had asked both my physician, and a nurse at the same office, there must be a waiver patients can sign releasing us from being pestered and pressured to have a test I do not want or need, stating I accept full responsibility for opting out. Both the doctor and the nurse (two young women) on two separate occasions, said, “no, there isn’t.” You can understand, now, after weeks of doing my own research, how I am feeling. I have read nearly every blog and the comments on this site. Also, if you search the website Reddit for posts on the pap test, you will find hundreds of posts describing anxiety, dread and fear, from women of all ages, who have been lied to for years believing the pap test is mandatory. The disregard of our body autonomy, and in turn our mental health and general well-being, by medicine at large, is abhorrent.
Hi ES!
There isn’t a way for Americans to “opt out” per se like in the UK for example. But I was successful in asking my provider to note in my chart that I do not want Pap smears and I don’t wish to be asked again.
Hi ES,
A warm welcome to the site, and
congratulations on realising the people in charge of cervical screening and their minions are all liars , if you are convinced of your decision it’s time to officially opt out of the exam and tell them where they can shove their speculum.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
I’ve just seen on the news that the first uterus transplant has happened, a 41 yo woman donated her womb to her sister who has been unsuccessful in conceiving , I wonder if they gave it a smear test while they actually had it in their hands, I wouldn’t be surprised!
Hugs Jules x.
Good one!!!
Actually, I heard this was done in Saudi Arabia over 15 years ago.
Can’t imagine the hell of being a woman there…
Hi Everyone,
I haven’t posted on here for a while as I was on a long haul London-Singapore-Sydney return flight with work and was away for nearly a fortnight. It was an unusal trip in away as although up front with me I had a male captain with me and a male first officer the flight crew were all female and I tended to go out with them during the evenings. On the last night in Singapore before we few home we were all talking about what we were looking forward to on getting home, I was looking forward to walking my dogs, others wanted to get back to the UK lifestyle and one of the crew said she had her first cervical screening to “look forward” to the day after we got back and had been bombarded with text messages reminding her of her appointment for the last couple of days.
Que the usual its not nice but its important type of comments, helpful advice that she must use a condom if she has sex before the night of the test, to gross past experiences of getting smeared. Someone then asked me what I did to make it easier and when I said I didn’t know as I had never had one everyone looked at me as if I had suddenly grown an extra head! I explained why I don’t bother with this, and how I had been harassed mercilessly to get screened before finally being able to opt out. One of the girls then asked about the CAA medical a for pilots and I said that I have to have one every year (cabin crew is every 60 months) and smears have never been mentioned the only remotely invasive part is the ECG but I wear a sports bra with no metal in it for this. Apparently because the bulk of cabin crew are female smears are mentioned at their medical and some but not all airlines offer a smear when a person with a cervix goes for a medical which is something I didn’t know of.
I explained that I had been threatened with being denied access to contraception if I didn’t have a smear, and even been struck off by a surgery for asserting the fact that I didn’t want one to an over pushy nurse. Sadly I got the impression that a lot of women are still bullied into getting this done and agree to it just to toe-the-line regardless of weather they want the test or not.
Jess
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/28/cancer-screenings-nhs-detection-treatment-health-service
Hi Jess,
Complete brainwashing is still very much the norm. They’d simply hate for women to find out that this useless test is a massive waste of public money. Been following @chrischirp on X and a new academic paper has been released showing how many extra days of life screening tests give us. As you can guess they all offer 0 extra days of life except for the sigmoidoscopy bowel screening test which affords us an extra 110 days of life on this planet compared to people who don’t avail themselves of this pleasure. Whilst she goes on about the huge burden of costs and time running these screening programmes she fails to mention the actual price (I understand it’s £6.6 million for the 3 current screening programmes) and there isn’t even a mention of cervical screening in her article. I wondered why. They’ll likely be wanting to avoid any massive injury payments to all those who were failed and conned into uneccesary treatment by this ridiculous test, or maybe it will be phased out to just 2 tests per year as the HPV vaxxed cohort moves on? I don’t think they had the nerve to include it in the research tbh because it’s such a failure. It’s why this website is still going after so many years, because the brainwashing and coercion is still very much part of the UK programme. I have not encountered a single person who has read any other information than what is in the dreadful pink patient propaganda leaflet. In fact there are many medical professionals who can’t critically appraise the medical literature and examine the figures carefully. I understand the UK government is planning yet more screening programmes to come, but I doubt any of them conform to the National Screening Guidelines. I think the overall plan is to privatise “preventive medicine” and get people to roll up by coercion and fear and have big screening lorries parked in supermarket carparks.
Thanks for the link to the interesting article Ada. Study after study has proven that screening tests have very little effect on overall mortality, but they continue to have holy grail status. Like you said, it’s brainwashing.
Hi ladies,
Watching GP’s behind closed doors tonight and yet another doctor promotion of the old get over yourself it’s gonna save your life crap, they really rub me up the wrong way, it would really really make my day if they were confronted with someone who was educated and countered them with fact based evidence, a supposedly knowledgeable health care professional being shot down in flames, that’s what I call great tv .
Hugs Jules x.
Jules so glad I don’t watch lol. On another note, I got an alert from they work for you about cervical screening and for some reason the male transport minister is asking what steps are being taken to make screening easily accessible for new mothers and mums of young children!!? (I’m sure screening isn’t recommended until the baby is 3-4 months old?? ) the reply was the usual they work very hard to increase uptake and break down barriers, it also mentioned a trial of the self test kits as another way to increase uptake!?
Hi kat,
How are you we’ve missed you, you haven’t been around awhile hope everything is good, Annette says hi , about that behind closed doors episode, the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced it was staged .
The doc gave the usual line about
saving lives etc and told the patient (julie) that she would be in charge of the procedure and could ask for a break or to stop at
Anytime, after what seemed like a few seconds the doc said “there we are all done ”and “julie said that was quick” followed by a hand shake and smiles all round
at the end of the episode it gives a round up of the patient’s progress and low and behold there’s julie with a beaming smile with a caption underneath which said of julies relief in getting the all clear from her test
This is almost line for line in their propaganda booklet, and I’m wondering if they are starting to use staged actors in what are supposed to be genuine doc appointments to try and boost their crap attendance figures, to be honest absolutely nothing would surprise me with this bunch.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Jules, and Annette, eww, your right sounds staged and acted…oh I’m so glad I had my smear now, you know what I’m going to say, involving a vomit bucket…..!!? All’s good, and thanks your kind words. Hope you and everyone else here is good too x
I didnt see that episode but I will try to find it on line. I bet if she had said “ow this is uncomfortable” instead of being in control of the situation the Dr would have ignored her and said just another couple of seconds and carried on regardless.
Hi Everyone,
I dont know if anyone saw the news last night but over in Northern Ireland there have been yet more errors in the cervical screening program. It follows a highly critical report commissioned by the Royal College of Pathologists (RCPath).
It found:
Several cytology staff were “significantly underperforming”
Mechanisms to check their work were flawed
Action taken by management was inadequate over many years
While a majority of negative results issued by the laboratory were correct, a “significant number” of these would likely have been identified as “potentially abnormal” by other laboratories
Another reason why I am glad to have opted out of this nonsense….
Jess
Remember you can purchase a DNA kit online. Use that. It’s passive and can be done at home. If it’s negative, tell the doctor to fuck off…
Cat&Mouse