Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.

About forwomenseyesonly

Hi. My name is Sue and I am interested in promoting holistic and respectful health care.
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770 Responses to Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

  1. katrehman says:

    Is there no end? Daily fail report Loose women star Nadia Sawalha is the latest “celeb” to film her smear test after the naughty woman put her smear off foe ONE WHOLE YEAR…..arrest her!!

  2. CHASUK says:

    The campaign – being run by Public Health England – has avoided the term “smear test” amid concern it may be putting people off. Officials said the term was outdated and hope the term cervical screening will “normalise” the procedure.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47445785

    Do they seriously think we are that thick! That the wording makes any difference…clutching at straws as usual! “Normalise” the procedure….what a joke! Any family member/friend trying to “remind me” that I must screen will get a very angry reaction! Yet again it quotes “Every year about 2,600 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer and nearly 700 die from the disease.” So why do I still see elsewhere that it saves up to 3,000/4,000/5,000? And not open to comments, dam I wanted to retaliate!

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m watching a doctor on the BBC talking about this. She is saying that the smear test is going to be rebranded to cervical screening – but still talks about examination as a smear test! She then states that as a health professional she sees women’s vaginas every day and so women shouldn’t be embarrassed. That’s alright then. So long as the doc is comfortable. 🙄

      • Kleigh says:

        Hmmm the point is some woman feel it’s violating. I also don’t like that woman are not given a choice . I’m saying no, not because I’m embarrassed but bc it’s violating and someone else’s agenda for my body . When the screening involves penetration of someone else’s sex organs they need to respect the patients choice. Instead of using words like should must have too. Doctors need to get concent fist. Respect and concent is lacking in womans health. Meadical bords/ doctors the meadical community has a lot of nerve telling woman and doctors what should be done to womans bodies in the name of health care.

  3. katrehman says:

    How can opening the vagina with a crow bar and shoving a brush up it ever be normal in any way or context whatsoever? Ok it’s not a smear test anymore. I still won’t be booking one…

  4. katrehman says:

    There’s a bit at the bottom you can email comments? I might try it out lol

  5. Mint says:

    I note the gyn doctor on the BBC said that women shouldn’t be embarrassed as she sees vaginas everyday. That’s alright then. So long as the doc is comfortable. 🙄

    I also note that Public Health England Twitter isn’t getting any positive responses.

    Oh dear.

    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      I read an article in the Medical Examiner, can’t link it, written by a female GP, a “humorous” video on the different types of pubic hair she sees when taking Pap smears – the full bush, the trimmed bush, the landing strip and all-off…
      I didn’t think it was funny…more disrespectful..
      At the end, a little message appears, “are you overdue?” (or something similar)

      I think to normalise this repulsive test, they had to convince women it was no big deal, no need for embarrassment, we see thousands etc. etc.
      They had to convince us comfort, dignity and bodily privacy should be put to one side, the pap test demanded it. Of course, feelings of embarrassment, violation, humiliation etc. are all perfectly reasonable and to be expected.

  6. katrehman says:

    And as ever please check the daily fail….

  7. Mint says:

    This Morning on ITV are running a campaign “Click here to face your Smear”. It appears the rebranding juggernaut has hit the buffers already. It’s only day one.

    • Speaking of rebranding, only today Rob Music (vomit) has put out a tweet saying he’s weighing up the future of the smearforsmear campaign based on the fact everyone’s pushing for ‘cervical screening’ to be used.

      Wouldn’t that be a great excuse for him to wind up his failing campaign AND save face?

  8. Victoria says:

    If they want to re-brand, one word they could change is “attendance” and variations on it. “Attendance” brings to mind school, something you’re supposed to go to. In the UK there are “attendance officers” who check up on children who regularly miss school. It implies you’re doing something wrong if you don’t “attend”.

    I also saw a woman on the BBC news (may have been the doctor, which makes it even worse) saying it’s a preventable cancer. It was very much with the tone that if you only went for screening, then you wouldn’t ever develop it. What a nice thing for women who HAVE had regular smears and still developed CC to have to hear. Or the women who chose to screen but delayed it for one reason or another. They’ll now have this horrible thought that their delay allowed time for the cells to become cancerous.

    In fact, that tone of “it’s preventable if YOU screen” could put people off going to the doctor with symptoms. They could be worried they’re going to be treated as if it’s their fault.

    Just all-round dreadful reporting of this today. The ad campaign itself is patronising and one-sided. Zero mention of choice, consent, risks, and what the relative benefit is.

    On Twitter I saw a waxing salon giving free bikini waxes to women who prove they attended a smear appointment. I have no words… well except that surely the Advertising Standards Agency/Trading Standards can’t condone a business offering a free gift in return for a *medical procedure*.

    • I agree. They also need to rethink their “invitations.” An invitation is something optional which you can accept or decline as you wish.

      Cervical screening “invitations” just assume you’ll be attending. That’s a summons in my book. All they need to do is add a ‘thanks but no thanks’ slip but they won’t. Why? They can’t continue to harass you if you’ve done that.

      It’s not as bad a breast screening making an appt for you but it’s similar.

      How can informed consent and choice be respected if the starting point is an assumption you’ll attend? That’s coercion.

      Today I saw the revolting Dr Ellie share a Tweet saying “It only takes about five minutes, and you have to go once every three or five years depending on your age.”

      Have to? Have to? I tagged the GMC in it mentioning the ethical violation. They won’t do anything but with the program on its last legs and propaganda increasingly desperate, I’m of the belief that every bit of noise helps.

    • NewDoc says:

      Exactly.
      A female relative of mine developed breast cancer thirty years after she stopped getting mammograms due to her religion. She suspected that she had it a few weeks before but she delayed going to the doctor because she knew that she would be bombarded with questions and blaming.

      Also, I find it very telling that they don’t put the same pressure on women who are not “attractive” by society’s standards (overweight, older, physically handicapped, etc.). Nevertheless, they claim that after 60, there is no risk of cervical cancer. Why not? Wouldn’t the risk rise with age due to more partners or more time for the virus to do damage?

      They simply don’t feel aroused looking at a naked 60+ woman… It’s all about then.

      • bethkz says:

        I had a doctor not take no for an answer, making it as bad as a really bad date from high school plus a pushy used car salesman. I’m overweight, older, and physically handicapped – hardly “attractive” by ordinary standards. It didn’t help me this time. 😦

      • Judy says:

        Exactly, Beth. If anything, I think older women may be even more vulnerable in a gynecologist’s office than younger women because they are more likely to be diagnosed with abnormalities such as fibroid tumors. One of the tricks gyns use to get women to submit to hysterectomies is to say a fibroid is growing very fast and could be cancerous, which is seldom the case but gets the woman into the operating room. In addition, older women often have abnormal pap smears caused by hormonal changes during menopause, which gets them on that medical merry-go-round of more testing. Gynecologists are surgeons – that is what they are trained to do, and that’s what they want to do – surgery. And many of them are not above using tactics like a used car salesman to get a woman to go along with it.

      • bethkz says:

        Judy,

        The doctor in question was a GP who I was seeing for continued care for hypothyroid and diabetes – and he spent the whole visit on pap scares. I know the best way to handle gyn offices – STAY OUT OF THEM!

        What doctors have to sell is FEAR. If they’re not getting enough “business” from treatment for actual diseases, injuries, and disorders, just scare someone into wanting more.

        ….And people wonder why the US has an “overuse” problem with medical care.

      • Kleigh says:

        bethkz, do you mind me asking? What was his response when you declined? How did you stand up for yourself in that situation?

      • bethkz says:

        Kleigh,
        This doctor was wearing a surgical mask that day, explaining when he entered the room that he had a cold.

        He asked the reason I was there, and I responded “follow-up on my diabetes and hypothyroid care and treatment.” He looked at the paperwork, and asked, “So, when was your last pap?” I had intentionally left that blank. “I stopped having those years ago.” He pushed for “How long?”, to which I eventually responded, “20 years”. He got excited then, and said, “Oh, you need one RIGHT AWAY THEN!” I declined. Then, “Why, might I ask?”

        I said that this was a rare cancer, which just over 12,000 women in the US were diagnosed with last year, and just over 4,000 died. That ratio of approximately 3:1 has remained stubbornly constant for decades, in spite of advances in cancer treatment, whereas the survivability of other cancers has increased.

        He stated that EVERYONE who has a cervix needs to have a pap test. “That’s no longer the standard of care, according to the ACOG. No one under 30, and women over 60 or 65, nor women who have terminal conditions should have a pap test.”

        We went around and around, including the typical propaganda, that it’s a “Leading cause of women’s cancer deaths.”, which I repeated the statistics. “Where are you reading this stuff? Blogs on the Internet?” I said, “Yes, I’m reading studies from the US Preventive Task Force, the ACOG, studies from other first-world governments, reputable universities, and so on. I’ve got a scientific degree, I can read a scientific paper, evaluate the quality of the information, look at conflicts of interest and funding sources.”

        He said he could not adequately care for me if I refused this test. What? You’re going to refuse to treat conditions which are diagnosed by lab tests by several doctors in deference to an optional screening test for a rare cancer, which I am very unlikely to have?” I got up. He said, “No, no. I never said that I would not refill your prescriptions! I recommend that you have these (recommended blood tests to evaluate treatment for the conditions I came in about).” I got the blood tests at the lab.

        On Friday of that week he came back with the test results, amazed that they indicated that I was taking good care of my diabetes. He recommended that I continue on the medications, doses, and diet I was on. He ended the call by calling me “My Dear”, and hung up.

        This was beyond creepy! A man I’d just met, whose face I had not seen, who tried for at least a half hour to talk me into allowing him to finger me, is now using terms of endearment! I thought about it over the weekend. As, by now (and since), I’ve been obsessing about the situation, I looked at more data and blogs where I can talk to others – including becoming active again on this one. I may have PTSD, and obsessing is part of the condition, but I’ve learned to do that productively and rationally.

        On Monday, I called the office to talk to him, “Can I ask what this is about?” I gave a vague response that it was about my recent visit. He called back in less than an hour.

        When he called back, I started talking to him about Informed Consent, that the existence of the legal right Informed Consent implies the legal right to refuse to give that consent – and he was not accepting that refusal and that coercion precludes consent. Then, pointed out that I am a survivor of rape – including rape by a medical professional in a hospital, and a situation where a doctor insisted on pelvic exams every week! That doctor is long dead, and by the time I realized it was medicalized sexual abuse, it was too late to do anything about it. We are trained to trust doctors, and that one violated my trust.

        After that, his voice was indicating that he was a bit nervous. “I wouldn’t have forced you.” I explained that coercion is not necessarily physical force. I had a choice – I could forgo my treatments or give in to the test was the implied choice. It’s much like a robber putting a knife to someone’s throat giving them the choice of “your money or your life”. Diabetes is the cause of death of more than 30,000 people per year. Now, dying of diabetes issues is not my preferred form of death, but I’d take it if I needed to. The alternative of dealing with the aftermath of such an examination would not be acceptable to me. The issue has led me, as well as thousands of others with similar experiences to avoid medical care altogether. And, yes, I’ve had YEARS of therapy in dealing with the abuses in the past. “Do you know what it’s called when someone penetrates the genitalia, mouth, or any organ of excrement with an object against their consent?” “Ummm…. Rape?” (I got him to use the “r word” to describe the situation, rather than me.)

        By now, his voice was shaking. “You know, you could file a complaint with the clinic. I didn’t force you.” I told him “I know. I could also file a complaint with the State Licensing board. Had you forced me, my next stop would have been to file a complaint with the police. I had a witness in the room. I’ve thought about this a lot over the weekend, and decided that you were probably trying to be the best physician you can be, and decided to use this to educate you rather than ruin your career before it gets started.”

        I reminded him of the problems that occurred in my last pap in 1998. After that, I learned of the rarity of CC, that many paps are done to women who have been led to believe that CC is a “leading cause of death”, that coercion by deception precludes informed consent, and know how much it’s contributing to the overuse of the medical system, including overdiagnosis and overtreatment, costing the US economy billions, plus an untold amount of human suffering.

        He said, (voice still shaky) said, “Thank you for your call, and bringing all of this to my attention. I’m going to think about how I deal with similar issues in my practice.”

        Then I said that, “After all that, ending the call with “My Dear” implies and imposes an intimacy which is not there, is unprofessional, and alone it can be a form of sexual harassment.” His response, “(Swallow) I didn’t think about that.”

        Sorry this is so long.

  9. Victoria says:

    I saw the suggestion that women who don’t want to screen should fill out a form giving their reasons and that should be the end of it. This was from someone in favour of respecting the opt-out and not doing “call and re-call”.

    While I don’t agree that giving a reason should be necessary (unless it’s used to truly understand why women don’t screen and accept that the test is flawed), I would be entirely happy to provide a reason and have that respected AS LONG AS every women who chooses to screen also has to provide their reasons to screen. If anything, that’s even more essential because it’s confirming their informed consent. Given the amount of misunderstanding surrounding screening, it would also highlight just how many women aren’t really giving informed consent. If medical ethics are being followed, those women who’ve misunderstood will be corrected and asked if they still want to continue. Nearly all of the tweets I saw yesterday were women unwittingly showing they hadn’t given informed consent.

    • I saw something similar to that with the idea women are more likely to be more honest about their reasons rather than the usual embarrassment tripe. Embarrassment is a handy reason for saying no because in theory is garners sympathy, easier to swallow than “no thanks, I think it’s a waste of time.”

      I do love your idea though. I’d imagine there’s a pretty small % genuinely giving informed consent.

      • bethkz says:

        The idea that refusing is “embarrassment” is as ludicrous if every guy who was ever accused of attempted rape said that the reason she didn’t cooperate was because she was merely embarrassed, rather than the other reasons she didn’t want sex through coercion.

        The attempted rapist would be laughed out of court.

        If the guy is a doctor though, it’s not questioned.

      • I’ve noticed we seem to have more doctors facing historic sexual offences, made we wonder whether the “MeToo” movement has encouraged more women to take action.
        I’ve always felt that sexual assault in medicine is treated very differently to someone grabbing a woman in a park or on a train, for a start, it’s often called medical misconduct and in the past was usually handled by the medical board, not the police…which meant not much happened.
        Things have changed a bit, now that more women go straight to the Police.
        I’ve always felt medical predators deserve the same or even a harsher sentence than the sexual predator in the park…because the doctor has used a position of trust to take advantage..to protect patients, a firm message should be sent, and that’s not…watch out or you’ll have your licence suspended or cancelled…no, it should be prison and the cancellation of your licence. I don’t believe these are one-off cases, medical predators are likely to carry on until they’re stopped…a short suspension and then back to practice is a cruel joke and condemns more patients to sexual abuse.
        The article mentions women are much less likely to make a complaint when the assault occurs in a medical setting.
        I think these predators must have rejoiced when cervical screening arrived…

        https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/12/doctors-sexual-assault-california/578014/
        It seems in the States, doctors are looked after as well.

  10. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    I think it’s natural that many women would find the test unacceptable, they knew that…that’s why we saw enormous pressure to screen and informed consent and proper ethical conduct was tossed aside. (I consider some of the testing amounted to an assault)
    I think women often say they’re too busy or can’t get an appt. when in fact they find the test completely unacceptable – painful, humiliating, violating etc.
    Again, they knew that would be the case, so we saw the program belittle women who felt that way, “stop being so immature”…”heaven help you when you have a baby”…etc.
    Has anyone heard any sort of criticism or insult thrown at a man who chooses not to have prostate screening or bowel screening?

    Bowel cancer has always taken far more lives than cervical cancer (in the developed world) so where’s the hysteria around bowel screening?
    Fact is this unreliable test that cost a fortune could only be justified if they could get about 80% of women aged 18 to 70 to have regular screening – that would have been impossible, the uptake was initially very poor, that’s why they ramped up the pressure, tied the script for the Pill to testing and paid GPs to reach targets. Can you imagine that happening with bowel screening?

    No, it was only possible because the medical profession did not respect women, felt consent and informed consent could be ignored – and they could confidently pronounce, “it was all in our best interests”…
    IMO, only dysfunctional and misogynistic thinking could find that an acceptable response….and from a group with power, unchecked power.

    Women should be free to just say NO, an “excuse” should not be necessary, because excuse implies you should be doing the test. Also, women often feel compelled to go into a very private area simply to decline a screening test, information that is our business. Some women are forced to discuss very private information again and again.
    I did explain to my GP why I wouldn’t be testing, many years ago now, but I focused on the evidence, that way I could avoid personal detail – of course, most women didn’t have access to real information, actually…in 2019, that’s still the case.

  11. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/sexual-boundary-rules-doctors-patients-physicals-20181129-p50j2w.html
    It will be interesting to see whether the new guidelines on sexual boundaries will include routine breast and pelvic exams, neither exam is recommended here at any age. In fact, doctors have been told over and over not to do them.
    IMO, these exams are often used simply to take advantage of women.
    I’ve long been suspicious of the doctors with an intense concern about breast cancer in young women and doing routine breast exams on them.
    Now for far too long, doctors could argue they felt the exam was important (their personal view), they were thorough…they were told to do the exam in medical school in 1980 or they recommended it and the woman consented…these excuses don’t wash, the Board should make clear routine breast and pelvic exams should not be carried out…they may constitute an assault…and that might mean prison, not a refresher course!

    • Demonhype says:

      Omg, those comments! I’m sure all of them from medical students and doctors, all whining about the ways the world will end and the sky will come crashing down on us all if they are no longer allowed to finger their patients at will, and how there is no need for any.oversight because things are already perfect as it is. Woe to all the poor patients who will surely die in debt because exploring medico fingers are the only possible way to truly and accurately diagnose anything! (Speaking of God complexes…). (Also speaking of perverts who clearly only got into medicine to practice perversion without consequence…)

      I’m reminded of all the articles that are now admitting that fingering of all sorts is becoming totally unnecessary because so many advancements have been made technologically that a blood test can diagnose more than a good medical fingering now, but that getting personally fingered is still.a good and important part that no one should dispense with because it “creates an emotional bond” between doctor and patient that is totally every bit as necessary as any silly old “medical utility”. Sure, none of us look forward to a Star Trek future where a doctor can just run a simple scan and never had to touch us much less strip us to diagnose or treat, nope, we’d all be so miserable if we couldn’t look.forward to the humiliating nudity and touching and verbal.abuse/threats of we refuse any of it, and the long anxiety-filled wait on a cold table beforehand, as well as the long cry in the car afterward…we all just live for that experience,and these Gods Among Men know it, bless them!

      Yeah, rapists often have an emotional.bond with their victims too, the kind that is delightful for them.but a living nightmare for the victim, the same often happens between doctors and patients wth patients avoiding all medical care even when symptomatic be sure of that ok let emotional bond with the medical establishment. But hey, even negative emotional bonds are emotional.bonds, right? Gotta have that emotional bond that can only come by forced unnecessary touching, that’s the only truly important part of medical care!

      • bethkz says:

        Demonhype, Oh, to be sure! The cries in the car afterward are never even considered. And, if they are, they have meds to treat that too, you know. It keeps people coming back, because although those are not addictive, they do have “discontinuation syndromes”, so your refusing to be fingered can well include the abrupt discontinuation of those – which appears to be associated with everything from suicide to mass shootings.

        100 years ago, they intruded themselves into the honeymoon bed by legally requiring a “premarital exam”, at least of women/brides, which included a good fingering to be sure that she would get aroused or orgasm. If the woman later became “hysterical” that too was treated by treatments that included fingering or object penetrations to get her to have orgasms, so the emotional bond between doctor and patient was and continues to be very important.

        In our enlightened late 20th century, men also were not exempt from this. Gone are the days of gender inequality! Instead they get fingered supposedly to feel their prostates – and they too have good cries in the car. I’ve seen that with male partners.

        Nevermind that the “bimanual exam” has shown itself to be totally useless, as well as the prostate exam. By the time one can feel ovarian cancer, cancer of the uterine corpus, or prostate cancer, it is large enough that it has metastasized and is difficult to treat, and deadly. In just a bit longer, it will have likely spread enough that it causes symptoms, but from people being fingered and pressured for more fingering, they will be unlikely to seek medical attention, or they will be pressured into more penetration before the problem will be addressed – such as a colonoscopy.

        One could always allow the fingerings and penetrations. Mental dissociation is a good way to allow that: See the cutsie signs above examination tables on the ceiling. In that case, they find it earlier, but one may be offered treatment which does not work to solve the cancer, a host of even more invasive examinations and surgeries. The person gets to live more of their life as a cancer patient – even if they never did have cancer. That’s good too: They can be spokespeople to say this all “saves lives”.

        Meanwhile, life expectancy is going down for women. It has gotten to the point that women in some areas and demographics of the US are now dying on average of 7 years earlier than our mothers did, with more chronic health conditions. https://www.womenadvancenc.org/2015/06/19/north-carolina-women-are-dying-young/ or https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236640759_Disparities_in_Women%27s_Health_Across_a_Generation_A_Mother-Daughter_Comparison

        The #1 cause of death in women is heart disease, the same as it is for men. But, that is NOT what is stressed to women. Instead, we are over-sold on a rare cancer that effects our “girlie bits”. Even if we do show up at an emergency room having a heart attack, we get treated less aggressively. Even if we show up at a doctor with classic signs of heart conditions, we are less likely to be taken seriously. Cardiosmart is a website of the American College of Cardiology. One of their suggestions to women is, “Talk to your doctor” (about risks and such). If a woman tries this, it will be back to the pelvic exam discussion! So, she is less likely to be able to talk to her doctor. Moreover, one of the risks for cardio problems or worsening them is treatment for breast cancer.

        On the 3rd page of the Cardiosmart, of risk factors, it mentions “Broken heart syndrome, also called Takotsubo Syndrome or stress cardiomyopathy: Despite the name, it can occur with good or bad emotional excitement.” Gee, do you think that pressuring women into exams every year or so that is rape by coercion could lead to this? It is known that the less outright violent and “gentler” rapes cause more long-term issues than the violent ones. This is because victims blame themselves more.

        https://www.cardiosmart.org/Heart-Conditions/Women-and-Coronary-Artery-Disease/Understand-Your-Condition
        https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/esoc-wah090405.php

  12. CHASUK says:

    https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/03/07/ensuring-the-accuracy-of-screening-information/
    Ensuring the accuracy of screening information!
    “Obviously there are many sources of health information outside of the NHS and government. For instance, there are commercial websites and smartphone apps which many people use, as well as COMMUNITY FORUMS.
    We do not have the capacity or remit to check these and do not have any control over them. Many of these information sources contain useful and up to date information about screening but we cannot guarantee that. And we have seen examples where information is out of date, inaccurate, insensitive or unhelpful”
    So if you spot a problem with the screening information and advice in any of these sources, feel free to tell us about it by contacting the helpdesk. We’ll look at it and contact the provider of the information if we think it is dangerously wrong or misleading. But we cannot guarantee that our suggestions will be followed.

    So basically we had better watch out with our forum here and any others that may damage the programmes!

  13. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Bring it on!
    We have a real reference section…
    I’d like to see them back up a lot of the rubbish they’ve fed to women over the years with solid medical references…can’t happen, it’s a mix of hype and misinformation. Interesting, when the UK breast screening program came up with the slogan…1 in 8 or 9 women will get breast cancer…they failed to mention that the risk rises with age…it’s certainly not the case that 25 year old women carry that sort of risk. In fact, I think the statement included women in their 80s.
    So a highly misleading statement.
    I believe it was done quite deliberately to exaggerate the risk and scare women.

    The same number was produced here..it was finally challenged…and their pathetic excuse, “that was the figure used elsewhere, so we didn’t change it, we didn’t want to confuse women”…
    (Or words to that effect)
    As if…the aim was quite clearly to scare and mislead women so we’d all rush in for screening and greatly fear breast cancer.
    That’s why I think many women are afraid of pretend cervical and breast cancer…the diseases they fear, don’t actually exist…rampant cc and breast cancer striking down 1 in 8 or 9.

    Would women fear these cancers as much without the scare campaigns and misleading statements?
    Breast cancer is a concern but for many women it totally overshadows every other health risk…including heart disease.

    The fact is we’re FAR more likely to die from heart disease but until recently, we heard very little about it…the focus has always been our breasts and reproductive organs.
    I wonder why…

  14. CHASUK says:

    https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/03/08/screening-year-report-showcases-our-work-to-reduce-inequalities/
    Today we have published our report that celebrates the work of the NHS screening programmes in England during 2017 to 2018 (1 April 2017 to 31 March 2018).
    During those 12 months, we screened:
    •3.2 million women for cervical abnormalities
    •2.6 million people for bowel cancer
    •2.2 million people for diabetic eye disease
    •2.1 million women for breast cancer
    •660,000 pregnant women for infectious diseases and to identify if their unborn baby has a major physical or genetic condition
    •more than 640,000 babies for 15 conditions, including sickle cell disease and cystic fibrosis

    How much has this cost the NHS I wonder?

  15. katrehman says:

    One has to wonder why they don’t record the opt outs considering they are so hysterical we MUST test…I asked that q on the blog…it’s waiting for moderation lol

  16. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Also, how many women provided informed consent for the test? Any numbers on that category?
    No?….(crickets chirping…)
    We know many women were coerced into testing, they should be taken out, they clearly didn’t give consent, they were forced to test.
    Women ambushed in the consult room by an aggressive GP or nurse, take them out too.
    Women misled into testing, believing cc was rampant and a serious threat, take them out..
    Women led to believe the test was mandatory – take them out
    Those who gave in after years of harassment by home visits, phone and/or letters – out

    Conclusion: I don’t think many women provided informed consent for testing, many did not consent at all.
    Initially, most women rejected the test, that should have been the end of it, instead the program and medical profession put their heads together to find ways to force women into testing, forget proper ethical standards, forget the law, forget human rights, just force women into testing.
    That’s not screening…

  17. katrehman says:

    Daily fail today ladies. An article on smears featuring the vomitable Ms Goody

  18. katrehman says:

    It’s totally vile. It rips women apart for not screening. To be embarrassed or worried about smell is making excuses. It also lashes out at those of us who don’t have mammograms or check their breasts regularly. We’re blasé about our health

    • Blasé in this case means we’re not listening to them anymore, we know what’s going on…they hate that, the gravy train has run off the rails. They can say or do whatever they like, they won’t get back the women who’ve walked away from these programs. Too many women are now informed or have walked away for various reasons, often trauma associated with screening or over-treatment. Scare campaigns, scolding, fudged stats…it all just rolls off our backs.

  19. katrehman says:

    Dr Max is worried how complacent we are and says womens medicine is a victim of its own SUCCESS? ???

  20. Kleigh says:

    I know many of you hear are not from the US . I just remembered back int the early 2000s my friends that were on birth control all said they were forced to have Pap smears before they got on the pill. Some of these were young girls like 13 14 year olds and virgins getting Pap smears. Looking back at it now what the hell were theses doctors doing. I didn’t know back the what I know now. Just that something seemed wrong . I’m so glad I was raised by my grandmother who was old fashion. Back in her day girls didn’t go for gym exams unless they were pregnant. All this well woman crap shaved at woman wasn’t pushed like it is today. Im 34 now and have lived without all these exams so I don’t feel worried about not having them. I only see it as someone elders aginda and violating. I really think Americans recent generations have been grooming young to make woman think the only reason they are healthy is because of these exams and desinsitze them to the invasive ness. Now mother’s are scared the daughter is sleeping around needs to tested and put on the pill. They even don’t want mothers trusting there daughters any more. It’s brainwashing hear. It makes me madd that other countries don’t screen woman till later in life and don’t tie the pill to birth control. Why are woman so trusting? Idk. Why hasn’t someone hear explaned that the pill has nothing to do with bc why are woman left in the dark. It ticks me off so bad.

    • bethkz says:

      When I first got on birth control, a bimanual pelvic and pap were required at Planned Parenthood in the early 80s. I have to say that the nurse who did it was wonderful, and had me look too, and was teaching me about my own body. It was still not in any way related to the pill, but I was led to believe that it was – that CC was rampant, that the pill would make it worse if I had it, and yadda-dadda. I now know that my risk was HIGH for false positives I got in my 20s – and I had a LOT of them, including one doctor who insisted on doing them weekly (!!!) when I had a vaginal infection – a yeast infection he was treating (???) with antibiotics! No, he just wanted to get into a young woman’s vagina every week, and keep her new husband out of it.

      • Kleigh says:

        My cousins yeast infection was found through a urinalysis. She went to a walk-in clinic. Of course had she gone to a gyno or other doctors they whould want to do an exam and when my grandmother presented to a gynecologist for a yeast infection. He did a Pap smear on her . Never mind she did not have a cervix anymore. He had to have known that . I guess it’s a Pap everything mentality. I just have to laugh at these hungry doctors.

  21. Kleigh says:

    Just read the Mayo Clinic hear in the US is saying that “Virgins can still concider Pap smears.” “Low chance but still consider”. lol my God they are thersty.

  22. katrehman says:

    Kleigh it was the same here in the UK in the 1980s. I remember being in a house share where the 2 other girls were on the Pill and I remember they got the letters to attend for smears if they didn’t no Pill. They joked u was the good girl bcoz I didn’t take the Pill!!

  23. katrehman says:

    By that time I’d come off it as it had triggered the migraine headaches I still get today. Of course doctors deny this link…

  24. Kleigh says:

    Katrehman, I agree I also feel like Doctors use birth control to control woman. All this is so sexist. And still no push for a mans birth control. Men whoulnt put up with the side effects and invasive exams. But it’s okay to do that to woman. I never wanted to use hormones. Ever since I can remember all I saw was the girls on the pill complaining they gained weight or got depressed. Some even ended up pregnant. I don’t trust the pill and hate how it’s pushed on woman.

    • Amy (UK) says:

      I agree with you Kleigh. I have never taken the pill nor would I, nor have I ever had any smear tests or pelvic exams. I just feel that it is all used to control women and to give men power over women’s bodies and sexuality.

      It used to be said that women ‘must’ report for a smear test by age 21 or when they started having sex, which ever came first. I felt that statement was just vile – it was like having to report your sexual activity to a doctor and who knows where it might be recorded. Many women were having pelvics and smear tests before they were married as they went for the pill before their wedding night. It was like their sexuality was being monitored.

      Obviously many women choose to take the pill and that is up to them, but it’s wrong to tie it to the pap smear. It was like the medical establishment struck gold when they manufactured that link. They’d never have got as many women in for smears and pelvics without it.

  25. CHASUK says:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47528672
    Third of under-30s in Wales snub cervical smear tests

    • bethkz says:

      Did you read that “Screening saved my life” story at the bottom? Although they don’t recommend the test for under-25 women, she says she wished she’d have accepted the first one when she was 21, as she’s now got cancer and all of that stuff. She might have had a false sense of security, and not gone to the doctor when she began having symptoms.

  26. katrehman says:

    Loveyourcervix? Who thinks this s*** up??

  27. katrehman says:

    Actually know what?? I do love my cervix. That’s why I keep it away from THE NHS and it’s “invitations “!

  28. katrehman says:

    I had the bad luck to see the new cervical screening tv advert last night and it so annoyed me. Thanking ppl 4 reminding them to book their smear implies as women we’re so daft we NEED to be reminded….of course we’ll forget to otherwise

    • CHASUK says:

      Guessing that TV Ad was the one with the dog holding the letter? Made me furious too! Whatever kind of emotional blackmail they can come up with to use, outrageous!

    • Amy (UK) says:

      It is absolutely sickening. I was livid when I saw it – it is so patronising. These campaigns act as though it’s just like popping along to the dentist or beautician, when in fact it’s a grotesquely invasive and, to me, completely unacceptable test. They must be getting to the desperation stage as the numbers are falling – now they are intruding into our homes with these dreadful adverts.

  29. katrehman says:

    More from daily fail. 19 year old diagnosed with CC vows to be maid of honour at sisters wedding after postponing chemo to five birth to her son

  30. katrehman says:

    Another (Groundhog ) day another hysterical rant in Daily fail Cervical screening is in MELTDOWN after women are forced to wait WEEKS for results due to lab closures….

  31. katrehman says:

    According to the DM there has been a surge in demand for smears since January and the introduction of these schemes to increase uptake

  32. katrehman says:

    My comment that typically this cancer takes years to develop so the death rate will hardly rocket has 38 dislikes and a reply of you idiot…..Oh well..

    • Emily says:

      Don’t feel bad kat…i got downvoted on Yahoo answers for telling a girl in a monogamous virgin relationship that a pap might not benefit her since it’s nearly impossible for her to have hpv and it rarely detects non-hpv cancers. Apparently telling someone it’s her own decision and she can take some time to do her own research is an awful suggestion…shame on me! (Eyeroll)

      • Yes, I get attacked on Twitter daily for daring to mention cervical cancer is rare. Such a bad person! When I come armed with stats, they get even nastier and start going on about my ‘anti-smear agenda.’

        I’m not only blocked by Rebekah ‘Chav Queen’ Vardy but also Dr Philippa Kay now too. Must be doing something right 🙂

    • adawells says:

      I can’t stand what the Daily Fail and the other tabloids print, it is stirring up hatred all the time with them. It makes me depressed to read what so many of these women say, how they only go because it “runs in their family”. No dear, you go because you’re too thick to understand why and need a stupid reason. Then you get all that nonsense about how they’re bossing women into going because they really care for those women who don’t go and they want to save their lives. They don’t seem to be concerned at all about all the young people who die of other causes in any way.
      I’ve recently seen a conversation on twitter between 2 women whose cervices could not be found after doctor fiddled for half an hour, and both had to be eventually referred to hospital to have smears taken there. What must the cost of all this be? In such cases an HPV self test could have found both to be negative and need no hospital referrals at all. What an absolute waste of NHS money this whole business is.

  33. katrehman says:

    Thank you Chas…I up voted your comments x the pro screener really don’t like us lol…

    • CHASUK says:

      I noticed all those down votes you got, still all as clueless as usual. Loving your comments, all I can say is they are all idiots LOL

      • It’s weird as I commented there the other day and I got a ton of down votes but then previous times I’d get a lot upvotes.

        I’ve noticed a few people around recently on the Daily Fail and social media who look and behave like paid shills/trolls. Could it be they’ve enlisted people to push their pro-screening messages?

      • bethkz says:

        Carolyn,

        Either paid shills/trolls, or paid bots to be scouring such things.

        I have to wonder who is behind this pro-pap crap stuff, throughout various countries around the world, with various sorts of governments and healthcare payment systems. The trick is usually “follow the money”, but that’s not really working this time. Yes, there is the free access to women’s vaginas for the male clinicians, and the power-rape trip when she can’t say no, but I don’t think that’s enough to explain this.

  34. katrehman says:

    Thank u Chas. .. you make good points too. As for the down votes well….the truth hurts the pro screeners lol….

  35. Amy (UK) says:

    Daily Fail have a story just now about a poor lady who had died from CC, apparently after “missing” a smear test. The comments are the usual – “get your smears, they are lifesavers”. When oh when will people realise that a mass screening programme for a rare illness is bonkers and overall does more harm than good?

    It is made the woman’s fault if she gets CC – either for not screening, not screening regularly enough, or “missing” an appointment. I wouldn’t be surprised if some screeners who do develop CC are given it from the poking and prodding done to them over the years. Maybe all that scraping of the cervix aggravates the area and exposes it to the HPV virus, or maybe the act of inserting the speculum forces the virus up further into the cervix. Or maybe some people will develop it regardless and it is just sadly unfortunate.

    • bethkz says:

      They don’t get it that “missing” an appointment, and being maybe 1 month overdue, is NOT going to suddenly make our cervixes blow up and kill us by suddenly showing up with stage 4 CC!

      Some of our loved ones have been roped into the emotional manipulation that we’re going to certainly die if we don’t have these tests, absolutely on schedule.

      I ran into an interesting hypothesis (no study) about why the CC rate has gone down since the 1950s. The typical one pushed is Pap, but a more reasonable one is hygiene and diet. The hypothesis is that pap testing, involving a brush on the cervix that creates irritation, especially if there are HPV viruses around, are pushed in there, the resulting inflammation causes a “localized immune response”, effectively innoculating us against the HPV virus. I guess that all explains the study in the 1980s of doctor’s offices having many pathogens on the fomates (doorknobs, glove boxes, tables, lube, etc), or all offices not sterilizing the speculum after each use. (heavy sigh)

    • adawells says:

      The reason they changed from the metal speculums to the disposable plastic ones was because the small GP surgeries did not have adequate sterilising facilities and the germs from the one speculum were being transferred from woman to woman. I found a couple of articles on this that may be in the references section on this website. The HPV can survive being washed with water so stayed on the speculum and was put inside the next woman. I once tried to find out what happens to the millions of single use speculums which go in the bin every year – another huge waste from this programme, but couldn’t get an answer from anyone, as it was always “not our responsibility”. I did read once on a nursing website that the bin that the used speculums were put in really stank.

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