This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
https://www.longtermplan.nhs.uk/online-version/chapter-3-further-progress-on-care-quality-and-outcomes/better-care-for-major-health-conditions/cancer/
Just spotted this, see paragraph 5.53, that age to start bowel screening in UK will change from age 60 to 50.
I’m not surprised that the age is being lowered. Too many people are declining the offer to poop in a box at 60. They will have to widen the net to justify the vast amounts of cash thrown at screening. Once again, the screening authorities have failed to come up with a process that the public will accept.
Mint priceless comment..who in their right mind would decline to poop in a box lol? !
Kat – on a lighter note, and referring to your avatar, many domesticated cats poop in boxes all the time.
Surprise surprise BBC news HRT linked to greater risk of breast cancer up to 10 years after the woman stops it….will they ever make up their minds?
Beth your right! My own cat poops in a box!!
A number of people have been pointing out that the increase is still very small compared to other risk factors like drinking alcohol. The risk of cervical cancer is also very small compared to not going for screening. Funny how some risks are acceptable and others not.
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/09/03/launch-of-new-hpv-primary-screening-letters-and-leaflets/
• there is a small chance that a result says abnormal cells are found when the cervix is normal (a ‘false positive’ result)
NOTICE THEY QUOTE ONLY A SMALL CHANCE OF FALSE POSITIVE WHICH IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE AS THERE IS A HIGH CHANCE!
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2019/09/03/launch-of-new-hpv-primary-screening-letters-and-leaflets/
I see they have dropped the 5,000 lives saved every year in the UK, but still refer to that 2004 paper by Peto about the screening programme saving the UK from an “epidemic of cervical cancer”. Disappointed to see that even after full HPV test roll out the screening frequency will stay at every 3 years before age 50. That’s way too often.
This is in the US!! Worth reading it all – shocking attitude!
https://obpmedical.com/are-reusable-vaginal-speculum-a-danger-to-patients/
is a fact kept secret from health care consumers, but readily accepted by medical professionals. Not every piece of equipment, even ones that comes in contact with patients, is subject to full sterilization procedures.
Most of the physicians and nurses felt attempting to explain the process and reasoning behind current practices would work against the public’s best interest. If women knew that a vaginal speculum was not sterile, they might refuse to get Pap exams. The methodology was too complex for them to fully understand, so it was kept secret. Healthcare professionals also denied this was an existing problem, despite the facts presented to them.
Studies show beyond a doubt of the danger that exists from the use of non-sterile devices. Tools like vaginal specula are known transfer agents for bacteria and viruses. The evidence is there, the medical decision makers just fail to accept it.
Even the CDC acknowledges that HAIs continue to be a pressing concern. Their current estimate shows around 80,000 people die each year from an infectious disease caught while in a hospital. That number doesn’t account for patients seen outside of the hospital, however, where over 15 million invasive scope procedures are done annually. Retired CDC microbiologist Walt Bond claims that regulating bodies like the CDC are fully aware that devices such as vaginal specula and scopes are causing infectious outbreaks.
There is a notion that instruments that come into contact with mucus membranes or skin does not have to be kept sterile because the skin or membrane itself is not sterile is what drives this, While my vagina, colon, stomach, etc might NOT be sterile, most likely I am not infected with such pathogens as HPV, HIV, HepA, HepB, HepC, trichomonias, gonorrhea, syphilis, etc, etc. Moreover, in the case of a pap it is expected that some blood and tissue will come in contact with it, and it’s got some probability in the case of all of the others – especially those that come in contact with the anus, as microtears are almost assured.
At the same time they do this, they also tell us of the dangers of having unprotected sex, lest we catch one of those diseases, As it’s commonly put, it’s like having sex with everyone your partner has ever had sex with. An unsterilized speculum would seem to be about as dangerous as having sex with every woman it’s been in since it was last sterilized!
Meanwhile, at the dentist, the dentist can autoclave and sterilize the instruments they use in someone’s mouth.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190911125114.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine%2Fcervical_cancer+%28Cervical+Cancer+News+–+ScienceDaily%29
Papillomaviruses may be able to be spread by blood
So now will this start encouraging more women to screen do you think? Perhaps all the virgins will be captured into the programme and bring those target figures right up to where they want them!
So all along as we dam well know, there is a good enough blood test for HPV!
Some years ago, researchers were looking at blood samples from a group of HIV-positive children, and as they were testing those samples, they found that some of them were also positive for HPV,” Hu said. “Because these children were so young, it prompted the question of whether the virus could have come from blood transfusions, which some of the children had undergone.
People who are receiving blood transfusions typically have immune systems that aren’t working optimally, so their systems are more vulnerable,” Hu said. “We might want to think about adding HPV to the list of viruses for which blood donations are screened, as well as researching whether the typical viral load of HPV in human blood would be sufficient to cause infection
So perhaps they better start encouraging millions of men to step up and screen! After all they matter too don’t they? It will never happen! They’ll have to admit the speculum test can be replaced!
Well said Chas! And as for blood yes I remember seeing a link to the fact HPV has been identified even in menstrual blood…
New post on the PHE blog report back on the cervical screening saves lives campaign back in March. Knowledge increased from 53 to 56% and women feel more positive about taking up the test. I’m now going to vomit in my cats litter tray lol…
I remember seeing a news item that HPV testing in India was being done by women submitting used sanitary towels. Also read that HPV and HIV are linked, but mechanism is not yet fully understood. Also that women who have cervical cancer are frequently found to have HIV too. In my home city free HIV testing kits have been put into various public places for people to test themselves, and they seem to have been very successful.
I’m sure we will find that over-reliance on smear tests has delayed research into these viruses. Zur Hausen discovered that HPV caused cervical cancer in late 1980s, but we backed the wrong horse and decided it was lesions that were the cause. It has always seemed wrong to me that women have to repeatedly undergo testing and treatments for diseases men give them. Perhaps if the spotlight is turned onto transmission among men, they will scale back the whole pap smear business and Papanicolou will be exposed as the fraud who set back health care for decades.
I was watching a re run of the Doctors tv show. This is a American show. Dr Travis started out by saying “seeing the gynecologist is essential but some woman find it embarrassing. “. Wow I don’t know where to start. Woman in other countries don’t see a gynecologist regularly. It just erked me. Words like essential. Why is it essential?
It’s a business like everybody must drink CocaCola. They are trying to introduce this into the UK. We’ve got a lot of private gynos spouting this nonsense too, many playing on the fact that our NHS offers a free test only every 3 years, and other countries offer more tests, so some misguided women pay for extra ones in between at these private gynos. .
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0969141319871977
Again, it’s all women must, should attend cancer screening as the norm. Nevermind that uptake among men in bowel screening is even lower, it’s all about how to increase uptake in women. Suggestions include one-stop-shop screening clinics where women can be captured for all 3 screening tests in 1 visit, to prevent them only attending some. The word choice doesn’t appear anywhere in this article, and with older women they can’t play the embarrassment excuse any more. For the over 60s they say women don’t attend due to carelessness.
How about the word CONSENT appearing in the article. We have a word for the event of penetrating a woman’s vagina without her consent. Consent is not the same as to acquiesce. If one is bargaining to avoid penetration without her consent, even if she acquiesces to it, she has not consented.
Well Ada at 55 I’m proud to be in the 10% who have No screening. No smear in almost 20 years never had a mammogram and refused to be an ally raped by the 1 off bowel screen at 55!! Woo hoo…I’m an old rebel!!
Kat, I shall be 58 next month, and never had a mammo or even a summons for the bowel test yet. Last smear was in 1997. So sad I had to have the hysterectomy and can no longer be a dagger in the uptake figures, but the battle has been worth fighting!
Well, Kat, I’m about 2 years ahead of you on “No Screening”. I am 57, I’ve never had a mammogram, figure I’ve been sodomized plenty as an abused child – and don’t want to go through THAT sort of sexual abuse recovery again – and I’m not sure I’ll make it.The combined number of colo/rectal cancer in the US is ~145,000/year (https://www.cancer.org/cancer/colon-rectal-cancer/about/key-statistics.html) – about 10x the number of CC cases! Then again, they perforate bowels at higher rates than that, and while it isn’t necessarily deadly, peritonitis is no fun at all! Risk/benefit of having my butt hole snaked out isn’t good enough.
It’s been 22 years since my last pap (those also bring up rape and sexual abuse memories – including a rape that happened IN a hospital 30 years or so ago. My girlie-parts haven’t fallen out yet. I’ve got a 0.65% lifetime risk of CC, but those dealing with rape/sexual assault aftermaths have a 16% chance of attempting suicide in the first year afterward (RAINN.ORG). So, being “responsible” for my health…. 16% vs 0.65%…. hmmmm, which ones of these do I want to risk?
With the last entitled (expletive) who I saw while he was wearing a mask and saw for the first time some chronic conditions, who had more interest in penetrating me with an object that features blades and his latex-clad hands, and how much THAT felt like an attempted rape – complete with my obsessing about it for months, there’s no freakin’ way I’m going to allow that! Yes, I’ll walk out without medications for those chronic conditions…. or more likely to RUN AWAY as any rape councilor will tell you.
Is it possible to get healthcare without fighting off yet another sexual assailant???
Excellent link thank you. I did notice this part and irks me every time….section 251!
Data availability
Fingertips data are publicly available on https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/. No additional unpublished data are available.
Ethics approval
The case–control study has ethical approval from the London Research Ethics Committee (reference number 12/LO/1041) and National Information Governance Board Ethics and Confidentiality Committee (reference number ECC 6–05 (e)/2012), which permits processing of identifiable information of patients in England without consent (under section 251 of the NHS Act 2006). The Fingertips data are publicly available, and it is not necessary to seek permission for their use in research.
Now I will be looking at the web page for “fingertips Data”
No-one will be capturing me that’s for sure, well done ladies for sticking to your rules!
They make some outlandish claims. Half of women are not protected from all three cancers… have they forgotten about false negatives and false positives? They assume that all these women would be protected from cancer if they just got over themselves and attended the screening. A downright false, dangerous and outright misleading statement to make.
As I’m over 60, I would call myself carefree rather than careless. I wouldn’t use the embarrassed excuse. I don’t use excuses full stop. I’m making an informed decision.
Notice how the article says that further studies are needed to determine why women are not attending all cancer screening. Where is the $$$$ coming from to fund these studies?
I would rather the funds be spent on CURING cancer or treating those that have it. They pretend that doing all this cancer screening and precancer treatment and studies on cancer screening and pretreatment is Cancer Prevention. Of course all the politics that cancer screening is an important Woman’s Issue and a right. Because they can just ignore poverty, affordable housing, daycare, education, job training, good nutrition because pap tests and mammograms will save us all.
This is how I prevent cancer for myself. Try to get enough rest and reduce anxiety (refuse the drama of cancer screening. I filled out the form. No more calls or letters). Spend my money on a good multivitamins. Try to eat fruit and veggies, good oils everyday. Stop using aluminum containing antiperspirants and body wash years ago. In fact, I stopped seeing the doctor years ago except for emergencies. I have never felt better.
This makes me so mad. There’s been so many studies already why we don’t go. They know why we don’t go. Yet they don’t bring in blood tests for HPV or even a self test. Or try to modernise mammograms. You’re right moo. It’s a criminal waste of money. Our NHS can’t cope as it is
I’ve read that that the whole pap program costs the US (individuals, insurance, government) a whopping $20Billion+! $7.8 Billion was spent in 2010 (the most recent year I could find) on mammograms, plus another whopping $4 Billion on unnecessary overtreatment in 2014. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/13/398818949/the-hidden-cost-of-mammograms-more-testing-and-overtreatment
I’m unimpressed with the concept of self-testing. It only gets rid of the routine vaginal prodding, but with 77% of women aged 65 having had “something done to her cervix”, the self-tests don’t get rid of the false-positive problem, and the no-doubt even harder push to have chunks of your cervix ripped off with a pliers without anesthesia with an extra-long speculum that stretches the vagina open even wider,
With the billions spent on this nonsense, directly – leave alone the costs to treat the aftereffects of all of this overtreatment, it’s no wonder the US has the most expensive healthcare in the world, with the lowest life expectency in the industrialized world, highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world (worse then many 3rd world countries), and the highest maternal mortality rate in the industrialized world.
Can’t we spend the money more intelligently for actual problems, rather than invasively searching for something rare using outmoded methods?
Since there clearly is a blood test for HPV, as evidenced by how they test in various published papers, why don’t we use that as a primary test, or why don’t we test or treat men? Oh, I know!!!!
Beth the crazy thing is there’s always talk in the media and among politicians about how to rein in our out-of-control health care costs, but none of this overtreatment, etc. caused by screening tests is ever addressed. The politicians would never dare to say anything about it because women’s health in particular is such a political hot button issue that the response would be “oh my God, he’s trying to take away our mammos/pap smears, he doesn’t care about women!” Truly a sorry state of affairs, particularly when many who actually do have cancer often risk going without life-saving treatment when they are uninsured or under insured.
The current obsession with the female body and the “empowerment” propaganda has reached new levels of ludicrousness. No surprise, that Jo’s Trust has had a mention here as well:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49753320
I have no idea where this current fetish has emanated from, or why it is suddenlyvconsidered “empowering” to discuss vaginas, cervical smears and all manner of “women’s problems”, whether we want to discuss them or not.
Whatever happened to being empowered through education, accomplishments, good deeds etc?
No one’s telling men that they need to be “empowered” by stripping off, looking and behaving as if they are sexually available and being encouraged to discuss their male body parts, because we all know that it is not empowering, and men command far more respect than that.
The current smear propaganda is embedded within this culture.
The recent awareness campaigns are some of the most aggressive I have seen in a long time.
GPs being encouraged to press for opportunistic screening.. how do they get over the inconvenient obstacle of patient consent, or informed consent when that issue arises?
I have assumed that as the take-up rates continue to plummet, the campaigns will become ever more aggressive.
Interesting question is, if the rates continue to fall, or temporarily rise before declining once again, where do they go next?
I think it’s pretty clear that these thoroughly intransigent professionals do not recognise informed consent, and moreover, will not let this go, so what will happen next?
I recently read that the Health Secretary may be looking at steps to make the MMR jab mandatory.
It begs the question, will this proposal eventually be considered in respect of screening?
There have already been questions raised as to why certain screening programmes are not considered mandatory requirements for Local Authority commissioning arrangements.
I might be being pedantic but even in 2019, I feel our reproductive rights and right to bodily autonomy is under constant threat!
I’ve got to be honest, I’ve thought about mandatory screening becoming a thing and always dismissed it but it worries me.
If jabs are becoming mandatory, could we end up moving towards a time where you need to be up to date with your screening to get NHS care? Medical professionals have always been happy to make it seem like it’s not a choice, it’s not too far of a leap to see people removed from surgery lists etc if they refuse screening.
It might be a struggle for them to deny NHS care (particularly emergency care), but is employers writing it into their policies as a requirement out of the question? Could they be compelled to do so by law? If it can be considered that children could be banned from schools, could women who don’t “comply” be banned from the workplace (oh, the irony), especially the public sector? Section 251 apparently allows them to overcome any privacy or harrassment concerns in the interests of containing an epidemic, so following that line of reasoning, it is not out of the question that some creativity could be devised to make employment trickier for non-compliant women.
As those take-up rates plummet, I have little doubt that the likes of Jo’s To$$ers would push to make something like this mandatory!
@Apocalyptic Queen: That’s how they forced drug testing into every citizen’s pants. They subcontracted 4th Amendment violation to the private sector, paid them well to carry it out with tax dollars, withheld food and shelter from the non-compliant, and pretended it was a “equal free choice” of both employer absolute with no connection to government therefore not a BoR violation. In the same way armed robbery is a “voluntary donation” and hiring a hit man isn’t a crime.
Of course,they did try this in Poland, requiring regular paps and pelvic for all female employment by law (of course,no equivalent humiliation for the men) and got shot down before they could enact it by massive international outcry. And in America, the ADA tends to protect people from medical exams for employment that aren’t directly required for specific safety reasons and tailored directly to those safety concerns (Thanks to Bush the Elder and Bush theYounger) and it’s one of the few that actually gets enforced. Dollar General got busted hard by the EEOC in recent years because they required extremely unnecessary and thorough medical exams that includes full blood panels and full genital and rectal exams and couldn’t show any of it was necessary for the nature of the job or prove it wasn’t being done to screen people wit irrelevant health issues off their insurance (most people in US don’t realize it’s very illegal to reject applicants based on concerns about how they will affect health insurance premiums or assumptions about future absenteeism based on health issues).
Demon hype – Have I read this correctly? So, it was George Bush Junior & Senior, who stopped private employers mandating employees to undergo non-specific employment-related medical tests? Who knew.
@Apocalyptic Queen: Yup, that’s right. I did some crazy deep research on it when I was having terror anxiety last year (for four weeks I couldn’t eat anything but liquid meal replacements and the odd very light salad due to my stomach knots, lost twenty pounds, please do not congratulate me on that because there’s nothing good about losing weight due to debilitating illness). The Bush administrations, for all their total craptasticness, did at least one good thing each. The ADA was enacted by the first Bush admin and it was expanded and strengthened by the second Bush admin. And you don’t have to be actually handicapped or disabled to file a complaint about employment medical exams because that would defeat the purpose, since the point is to protect the disabled not just from discrimination but from.being forced to disclose job-irrelevant disabilities. So Americans, if you are not disabled but object to any obviously job-irrelevant medical exams being forced on you in the work.place, complain to the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission)!
Btw, I’m pretty sure that penalizing workers for not taking part in “voluntary” health programs that require medical examinations is also not allowed, including charging higher premium or punitive fees. But I had that link on.a kindle that doesn’t work.anymore.
As far as “at least he did one good thing” goes, that one good thing they did is a big one for me. So even if I have to say F U to the Bushes for everything else, I will always be grateful for the ADA.
Our reproductive rights and bodily integrity are under constant threat with this opportunistic screening. Inserting any body part or object into a natural bodily orifice in violation of consent is rape. Someone with a chronic condition should not be faced with the choice of not treating the chronic condition (possibly deadly), or looking forward to a lifetime of annual rapes, or pressure to acquiesce to rape anytime they seek care.
However, the same case cannot be made for a speculum exam as is made for vaccinations from dangerous and deadly diseases.
These diseases are spread via the air and by casual contact and contact with objects. To prevent an epidemic of such a disease, a large percentage – varies by disease – must be immune to the pathogen. Immunologists use a nomenclature of “R-value” to talk about this, but it’s pretty simple: R is the number of people that one infected person can be expected to spread it to. If the value is 1, the disease is holding steady. If it’s below 1, it’s subsiding. If it’s greater than 1, it’s spreading. As an example, if measles is introduced to a population without immunity to measles, the R rate is around 30.
While many people get through these diseases okay with minimal help, some people die or are permanently disabled. There are plenty of people still in wheelchairs or on crutches because of having polio in the 1950s or earlier. As vaccinations are not 100% effective, and some people cannot be immunized (babies, immunocompromised, cancer patients, etc), someone with the disease poses a risk to others.
HPV does not spread that way. If anyone wants to protect themselves from possibly catching HPV from me, I invite them to stay out of my vagina! I think this is part of what is being (deliberately) missed when they say that some high percentage of women must be screened for it to have any effect. Sexual contact is not casual contact.
I have mixed feelings on “mandatory” vaccinations. Yes, it is important to keep a high percentage immune so that epidemics do not take off. At the same time, quarantines, including self-quarantines are effective. People who choose not to be vaccinated could live in their own communities, with limited contact with other communities – probably with protective gear. This could be done today. Many jobs can be done remotely, and others which cannot would be fulfilled by others who’ve chosen to not be immunized.
@bethkz: I know what you mean. A big part of the “mandatory vaccination” thing hurts kids whose parents are the ones refusing,by denying them educations–hurting kids to protect kids. And creating a system where if you insist on bodily autonomy and control of your medical care,you better like starving in the street, is straight up.fascism. I always ask “so you want to mandate spread my legs for a gyn rape–are you also going to mandate the follow ups? Will I have any right to choose the path of investigation and treatment,including refusal of any and all, or will I be required to submit to surgeries the doctor wants to perform on me? Will I have zero say in whether someone carves into my flesh with a scalpel? They usually don’t want to go *quite* that far, so I have to ask–if I’m going to refuse treatment if I have cancer, regardless of its stage, what is the point of making me test for it?
And, of course,flu shots. The mass application of which seems to be most prevalent in places with the most for-profit healthcare. I’m sold on MMR, which easily proved their worth, as did the smallpox vax, but not on flu shots, which I consider to be the point where medicine and capitalism merge and to be a totally pointless tailchase that makes it perfect as a cash grab, much like pap tests. So of course I’m an antivaxxer who is “killing kids”, because to question one vaccination.is to question all of them, and questions =murder, apparently.
Seriously, I ask “why does every person I know who gets the flu shot get the flu anyway?”
Answer ” It’s a different strain”.
I ask “so why didn’t I get it when my vaxxed co-worker coughed in my face,which happens a lot?”
Answer ” You’re a moocher leeching off the herd immunity they nobly created by submitting to the flu shot”
I ask “How does their vaccination against flu strain A protect me from flu strain B, especially when it clearly didn’t protect them from.flu strain B? That makes no sense. it’s like saying my measles shot means I can get whooping cough but can’t give whooping cough to any non-measles-vaxxed people.”
Answer “YOU are just ignorant of how science works and shouldn’t be allowed to think or speak, and I don’t have to explain how flu shot A can confer immunity to B to the unvaxxed but not the vaxxed because Science Sez So and we must all obey the High Priests in the Sacred Lab Coats and never ask them questions lest they become angered and withhold their many Elixirs of Life!”.
I ask “Is it maybe possible that suffering through a real flu from time to time, if one has the constitution for it, confers a stronger immunity against more strains?”
Answer “GET A FLU SHOT AND STOP ASKING QUESTIONS, MURDERER, YOU ARE KILLING PEOPLE!!!!”And
Like when they were forcing hospital staff who refused a flu shot to wear surgical masks “to protect patients”, and totally not as a scarlet letter. Really? Most people I know who get the jab get constant illnesses, including flu, and “different strains” isn’t an excuse here. So as long as someone got the recent flu jab, they can cough and spew “different strains” of flu, as well as colds and other infections, all over patients and it’s perfectly safe, but a healthy person who was not vaccinated against one specific strain is a danger? Bullshit. If you cared about safety, you’d make everyone wear it during flu season regardless of vax status, or your require workers showing symptoms to wear it regardless of vax status. You’re shaming the non-compliant and trying to paint a target on them for bullying purposes,nothing more.I
Sure enough,they’re now admitting it doesn’t work for immunity purposes, but could “reduce the severity of symptoms” when you do get sick. Which kills their “public protection from.epidemic” argument.
Demonhype,
I had a career in software testing. Part of deciding whether some test is worth doing is the answer to the question “What are you going to do with the results?” Like you, I’ve already decided against colposcopy/biopsy (having pieces of my sexual organs torn off with a biopsy forceps not especially different than a pliers without anesthesia is unappealing), LEEP (having parts of my cervix amputated, along with severing a number of nerves that leaves about 30% of the women who have that with a form of anhedonia where they don’t FEEL emotions as they once did is also unappealing – even if they use anesthesia for that), having a hysterectomy that leaves numerous women with bladder, anal, and vaginal prolapse and robs me of uterine orgasms is unappealing…. I like including the requirement for the scalpel…. how far will they go? Will they really go “full on Mengele” as part of the “fee” for treating diabetes or hypothyroidism? Or, if they don’t, is there any purpose to having this test besides checking a box somewhere?
On flu shots, you’re right that they take a scientifically-proven thing to the point of absurdity. Yes, I’m sold on polio vaccines – my mother died of post polio syndrome after spending decades in a wheelchair, and my mother in law suffers from it. I’m sold on the value of smallpox vaccines – having eradicated the disease in the wild. I’m concerned about it being kept in government labs, especially the accident they had with a Russian lab which *might* have released some deadly pathogens – possibly including smallpox. We’ll see over coming months and years. (sigh) The MMR vaccine is another one I’m sold on – measles kills a lot of people, and rubella disables many – including foetuses when their mother gets the disease while pregnant. The MMR/autism link comes from Dr. Wakefield’s fraudulent research – and his article is the only one ever retracted by The Lancet in it’s 300+ year history. Moreover, that line of thinking implies that someone would rather have a dead child than an autistic child – even if the claim were true.On mumps… A few years ago, my husband got it from a Christmas-caroling child of antivaxxers… and it’s no fun to be around an adult man with mumps! OTOH, the fact my father got mumps as a teenager and was believed infertile is why I was conceived.
The notion that *any* flu shot will offer some protection is slightly true, mostly false, and greatly misused. If it were true, I could have a flu shot every 10 years or so, and I’d be “good”. But, flu viruses mutate at an alarming rate. There is a lot of science and interesting ways to figure what the next round of flu will be in a given hemisphere (based partly on what goes on in the opposite hemisphere during their flu season). Sometimes they miss, and the wrong flu goes around, which the vaccine doesn’t help much with. Or, they run out of this year’s vaccine, and start giving prior year’s vaccines – without informing the patient – claiming it gives “some” protection. The truth value to that statement is “It depends”. Lack of patient consent is disturbing, as it is everywhere else that consent is not considered.
A better way to avoid flu mutations would be to change the way hogs are raised in large houses that allow bats in, as well as chicken houses that also allow bats in, as well as manure ponds from these operations. This is almost a formula to recombine viruses! Instead, the US is getting rid of pork inspectors that can keep contaminated pork off the market and people’s plates!
The bit of truth is that an immunity to some flu A will give someone a partial immunity to other strains of some other flu A. But not to flus of the B strain…. or other strains. Nor will it protect against mumps or ebola or polio or other viruses.
Beth – I understand completely what you are saying about cervical cancer not being an air borne disease, and so not contagious and meriting emergency safety procedures.
Also, the medical protocol concerning what one should do if they receive a “positive” result (abnormal or otherwise) raises ethical questions. The UK Screening Committee is very clear about the fact that screening should not be offered unless treatment is available.
However, a number of UK workplace policies for instance, include a time off allowance to attend smears, but not to undergo any follow-up treatment (a contradiction in itself).
Unfortunately, despite the UK medical protocols in place, I feel that they could devise very creative ways to get round those.
The take-up rates for cervical screening are plummeting and while this is good and means the integrity of their programme is at risk, it also makes the situation quite dangerous from our perspective, as these people have vested interests in screening and are desperate to kerp it going. There has been a very aggressive awareness campaign this year. The screening charities wants screening to be discussed in schools, workplaces etc. This is all about hunting down and outing “defaulters”, because pro-screening women tend to be very vocal and aggressive, as do NHS professionals. If someone were gorced to disclose that they do not screen in the workplace, this could cause a backlash and make people ferl uncomfortable about expressing themselves etc. Bullying is a form of authoritarianism, and authoritarians do not care about rules or medical protocols (even their own).
Section 251 allows mefical professionals to harrass us into screening despite Article 8 Right to Privacy, under Human Rights Laws, although I don’t believe Section 251 is technically legal. Cervical cancer is not an epidemic; and even if it were, it is mot contagious in the sense that it merits, emergency procedures to contain it, in accordance with Article 8. I believe it is an outdated piece of legislation.
Nevertheless, without being tested in court, it is very possible for draconian measures to be introduced to enforce screening.
Their opening gambit is the NHS, and how not being screened or treated is putting undue pressure on its resources as you could be “easily” treated for something that could go on to kill you, thus saving so-called “precious” NHS resources. They’ve already tried this with some conditions.
They have also tried limiting benefits for those with other conditions or tried to withhold benefits until those people are treated.
Those proposals were eventually stopped and I suspect that deep down, they wouldn’t get off the ground here either, but it’s difficult to know whether a new proposal in respect of screening would gain traction, as there is very strong opinions on it.
Women who don’t screen are seen as irresponsible, not just for neglecting their own “health” but for putting the NHS under pressure.
The problem I see is that the moderate voices we had on this issue a few years ago, seem to have been drowned out by the more radical types, and I worry about who would be there to speak up for us should the likes of Jo’s To$$ers demand a change in approach.
AQ you raise points I’ve often worried about. I work in a school so by definition a local council and government body. We are currently under draconian sickness monitoring…have so many days off get called to meetings and told you can’t have any more time off sick for x amount of time. I’m also an 0fficer in my trade union ..a good 3/4of our workload is accompanying ppl to these meetings. It’s not realistic elsewhere a disabled town hall employee was told no more time off for ONE YEAR……
We were told it’s “our duty” to remain well and not be sick! And really in a school with all sorts going round? Our head regularly organises a nurse coming in for health checks like the NHS ones. I’ve never attended…I refuse the “invitations ” from my GP so why bother at skl?plus I’m not convinced results would remain confidential and of course it’s another opportunity to push screening…
So yes I am worried that it could become a requirement of employment to screen. Obviously I can’t afford not to work but I would be forced into this under coercion and I WOULD trumpet it from the rooftops to the press ect. There was a Demos report a while back blasting us for the costs incurred by NHS ect when we get sick through refusing screening so…..
There’s no room in UK prisons anyway so I can’t see us being thrown in jail for not having a smear….
Another way I can see it being pushed into law is through the benefits system. A while ago they were considering forcing those on sickness benefits due to addiction or obesity to seek treatment as a condition of receiving their payments but this was dropped thankfully. But how long before they try to make screening a legal requirement?
Also the odious cervicalscreen1 woman has added a few posts on encouraging BAME women to have smears and other cap if anyone feels brave. ……
I went to one nanny interview where the mother of a newborn asked me if I have a certain vaccination for pneumococci. I was shocked. This was because her doctor had told her it was necessary for anyone who was around her baby. I should have told her that I had my rabies shot too.
It is to the point of ridiculous. Apparently people in the UK are monitored about what websites they view. If they view too many “radical” websites the police with pop over for a chat.
The flu vaccines are manufactured months before they are given out. The flu strain or strains it will be against are guessed at. The theory is that if enough different flu strains are in the vaccines year after year after several decades of flu vaccinations most people will be immune to those strains. It is a THEORY. These viruses mutate constantly and sometimes mutate from animal strains.
I did get a flu vaccine a few times. It always made me sick with fever and a sore arm for a few days after the vaccine. I noticed I got sick more often during the flu season the years I did get the vaccine. I also had to wonder about the doctor who lied and told me he used individually loaded syringes when I would question preservatives in the multi vial. I would want to see the vial or package and write down the manufacturer and lot #.
Vaccines can hardly be harmless for all people. Just google vaccine injury. There is even a special court set up by the US government for settlements for children injured by vaccines.
Daily fail today ladies oh my!! HPV I’d now classes as a global epidemic and plans might be to vaccinate EVERY adult even those up to around 55 as it will help reduce costs of later life cancers and will also prevent “relapse” in those who have had and cleared it as it lays dormant. Apparently HPV Is the sole cause of CC??? The pro vaccers r probably dancing in the streets!!
I was pre-occupied about smears being made mandatory. Seems as though it’s the HPV jab we also need to worry about!
Pushing the HPV latency THEORY again are they?
There are a few published studies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5691619/
Reading through this paper it just proposes a theory based on population studies. Nothing actually about HPV strains or previous “treatments”. Just comments on how many sexual partners a woman has had in her lifetime.
This is the only women-only health-related awareness campaign that I’d give the time of day for:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-49854678
A piece on the news today articulated most womens’ views perfectly; There’s a misconception that heart disease only affects men. As a woman, she only worried about cancer!
I wonder why!!
Yes, and I have been telling people for some time that heart disease kills more than half of all women. Not these commercial “girlie cancers”. Not any cancer.
They bring up “the old days” – before this constant scramble to find girlie cancers in all women. Do you know what the highest cause of death was in 1900? Tuberculosis, same as men. Do you know what the highest cause of death was in 1918? Spanish Flu, same as men. Do you know what the highest cause of death was in 1970, right before they rolled out these screening programs on a huge scale? Heart attacks, same as men. Do you know what the highest cause of death is now? Heart attacks, same as men.
Okay, then, in the “old days” these were the leading cause of cancer deaths. For all of those times, it’s been lung cancer – the same as men.
Well, it’s still the leading cause of death or cancer deaths in nonindustrialized countries, such as Africa. When they don’t have the medical personnel to provide even the most basic care for serious injuries and disease, who the heck is doing all of these autopsies? Well, it doesn’t take “a doctor” to do an autopsy. Yes, anyone can cut open a corpse. That person wouldn’t necessarily notice cancer anywhere it’s found! That is, at best, “low quality information”.
Cervical cancer was always a rare cancer, and most of those metastasized from somewhere else.
I think they’re going on family rumors that great great grandma died as a result of some “female problem”, and “Do you think it might have been cervical cancer?” “Ahhhh, maybe.” In reality, she might have died in child birth, from child-bed fever, or maybe with ovarian or uterine cancer.
I have found this today, slightly different to the previous one I signed….and was ignored. Permanent Removal
https://www.csas.nhs.uk/support/pc-cs-007-002-cease-informed-consent-v3
I will try again and use this one instead, as I want off the programme permanently!
So concerned you make an informed decision to opt out but for decades they had no problem coercing, harassing and bullying women into screening.
Even now some women go around in circles for years trying to opt out permanently.
In the UK, I know some women were contacted again after 4-5 years..hope permanent now means just that
Exactly, I do feel like I was coerced and way back with my first screen I did not even get any true information before going ahead, it was just expected and I still feel angry, but also angry at myself for being stupidly compliant…weird how we have been wired to just do it!
I am now 50 so shouldn’t be getting invites for 5 years, even under 50 the usual 3 year “invite” arrives by post several times a year…..perhaps due to the original 2009 abnormal test (and final one) maybe? Oh and that abnormal was due to early menopause at aged 40 which I had to insist on proving by blood tests!
I so glad I don’t feel obliged anymore!
This time instead of posting the opt out letter I am emailing it today to the GP surgery which means they will have to act on my request, or they will be receiving constant emails until my name is removed!
Funny that they continue to state “women feel empowered when screening” – because now I really do feel “Empowered” not submitting to any screening!
Good luck, Chas. I sent Primary Care Support England numerous letters and opt-out forms which they (and the GP) continually ignored. It wasn’t until I sent PCSE a letter template which I downloaded from the Information Commissioner’s Office website, regarding using my data without my consent, that they finally responded. PCSE very quickly sent me a letter to sign and send back to be ceased. I sent the letter ‘first class signed-for’ so I could track it and they couldn’t deny receiving it. That was in December 2018 (21 months after I had first written to them to opt-out!) – I haven’t received an invitation since (I was getting them every 3 or 4 months), but it will be interesting to see if one does turn up in the future. I’ve kept ALL my records, so if I do get one, they will get short, sharp from me and I will be complaining to the ICO! x
Thanks Julie – I got by post another to sign, saying it had been replaced, almost identical but one part CSAS amended to PCSE. Signed and posted but also sent it again by email so they can’t deny receiving it. Lets see what happens? Fingers crossed.
BBC site today https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50058559 Coronation Street fans get ready to say goodbye to Sinead Osbourne. The tragic storyline comes at a time when cervical screening rates – a test that checks the health of your cervix to help prevent cancer – are at their lowest for two decades.
Clearly another attempt at raising our awareness & increase the uptake! Even though the storyline did not actually involve a screening test as she was 24, it was spotted when she was pregnant, followed by treatment then cancer returned (or spread due to chemo?) It has already increased the uptake in one week, what a surprise! And she said “Soaps should be showing real life so that more women go for their smear tests,” The Coronation Street writers worked with two charities – Mummy’s Star and Jo’s Cervical Cancer Trust. “We hope it leads to more women being aware of the symptoms and understanding the role of cervical screening in preventing the disease.”
The usual so called facts about cervical cancer included and other stories!
At 24, the odds are that she had adenocarcinoma for her CC – a type which is not found by a smear test. She was not to the age where any recognized medical organization currently recommends cervical screenings. Too bad for her, but having more (older) women penetrated, poked and prodded is not going to help her or others like her. Fortunately, we are getting better at treating cancer once it becomes symptomatic.
Beth on a lighter note I love your world is a cat gravatar! !
Thanks, Kat. 🙂 The world is indeed a cat – except for Australia, which is a toy being played with by the rest of the world (as a cat). I don’t know what our members who live “Down Under” think of that image.
Cats own and control the world. That is one of the best arguments against flat earth – if the earth were flat, cats would have knocked everything off of it by now. 🙂
I like your avatar too. 🙂 Your cat is more realistic than mine. Sadly, for the past 3 years, no cat has found me to be worthy to care for him or her. 😦
Chas I’m the same. I never felt empowered by smears just in agonising pain and feeling filthy dirty and violated. Now I have control of my vagina back and the NHS no longer “inviting” me for a test I never wanted or asked for..like you.. I feel EMPOWERED!!
Beth I hope you find the purrfect cat 4u and your family. …he or she will be so lucky to find you x really I’d not be without my ginger boy Leo😻
Daily fail again today ladies following on from Snead some other minor celeb has filmed her smear test and is urging us all to go….must b a slow news week!
It’s Towie Courtenay Green. I posted saying I was sure all women by now knew about smears and we’re capable of deciding whether to go or not by themselves without this or any other campaign and I was sure even space aliens had heard of smears by now and please DM change the record. 5 dislikes already woo hoo!
Anything to glamorize it or normalize it. I just saw on the CNN site that American actress Jennifer Garner filmed her mammogram. I loathe these stunts. A celebrity having one of these screening tests does not negate the fact that women are given unbalanced, cherry picked information and there is a woeful lack of informed consent!
There with you Kat LOL – Using her platform…..to raise awareness……..of herself LOL! A generation of me me me!
They just don’t like the truth, they all believe in the test…without any real knowledge, shocking! They are so dumb!
Chas thank YOU 4 rescuing me!! The sheep r stampeding in joy about amazing women having wonderful smears…blergh!! Thanks 4 your sanity x
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2019/10/modern-screening-can-be-more-personalised-and-convenient-to-save-lives-says-new-report/
Modern screening to be made more personalised in the UK. What could this be?
Tailoring frequency of tests to personal risk? Offering HPV self-testing? Accepting people have a choice?
Of course not! They plan on offering cervical screening appointments during evenings or near your work base, and texting women with repeat reminders to attend. These innovations “have proved they increase uptake and are to be rolled out nationally”.
Personally, I thought these things had been going for years and hadn’t changed the national uptake figures a jot.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2019/10/25/margaret-mccartney-cancer-screening-review-diminishes-informed-choice/
Hooray for Margaret McCartney who has replied to the NHS brochure by Mike Richards above!
‘Independent’ review? How can it be independent when it’s overseen by a former cancer Tsar who refuses to acknowledge the harms of screening? Pfft.
Hooray indeed for Dr McCartney! I was very disappointed to see the answer to falling screening rates was to offer cash incentives to GPs. She is correct to point out that the “authorities” refuse to accept or acknowledged informed consent. I hope that these recommendations will not be explored but sadly I don’t think that will be the case. Bullying vulnerable women into screening during a consultation would be easy money for some health care professionals.
Mint and Kate so true. Well the tv campaign didn’t work nor did celeb smears so let’s take more money out of the NHS to pay doctors to bully ppl into screening. It makes me sick to think this is what I pay National insurance for…..
Margaret never gives up, she’s been fighting an unethical, dysfunctional and harmful system for a long time now, she’s in my medical hall of fame. It’s disappointing that we get sound bites about informed consent and the risks of screening but when it comes down to it the default position is always rounding up all women and pushing them into the screening machine. It will take women to throw a spanner into the works…this is a war we have to fight, our very lives are at stake.
An extra 200 million to improve mammography equip mentioned? In one way it’s good but however many nurses and extra drugs ect could rat pay for??
And sadly though Margaret talks correctly that a HPV self test kit may be more acceptable to some women the authorities couldn’t care less. We have a speculum test and that’s that!!
BethKCZ – please consider taking a rescue cat, there are so many available. I have rescued many over the years and still have 2 beauties that make me smile every single day! x
I’ve usually taken in strays and outright rescue cats. I have never purchased a cat – although I’ve adopted a few from shelters. I thought I had one that wanted to adopt me a couple of years ago, until the person charged with keeping his mom found her and encouraged her to come home. We’ll see what happens.
I love Siamese cats, our Rosie is No. 4, we’ve always paired them up with a rescue cat, it works well, the moggie is more vocal to compete with the Siamese and scolds the Siamese when she gets too rowdy. Our current rescue cat was adopted as an 8 week old kitten, part of a litter found on a building site, the vet nurses fed him every 2 hours, he’s now a solid healthy cat with a lot of attitude…he’s certainly forgotten his humble beginnings!
On Thursday I received a letter from the NHS informing me that in two weeks I am to get a pre-arranged appointment inviting me to bowel scope screening. This is where they insert a camera through your back passage in order to view your bowel. I am to get with this invite an enema to put in about an hour before the app.
This is a new test being rolled out to all 55 year olds. I had never heard of it before and I keep my eye on NhS proceedings.
With regards to informed consent the booklet that accompanied the letter is wholly biased in favour of screening. It gives information on what bowel cancer is and the rates it strikes, how long the app will take, what will happen and possible outcomes. There is a diagram showing how the procedure is performed.
All in all the booklet trumpets the benefits of bowel scope screening.
A tiny paragraph mentions that one in 1000 people will experience bleeding of a punctured bowel but this ‘unlikely’ event is played down with the end statement that these people go on to make a full recovery. So no guarantees that this ‘five minute’ procedure is not dangerous.
Of course I won’t be going. The invitation is going to be ‘ignored’ I didn’t ask for this screening and as you know from my past comments after all that has happened to me at the hands of the NHS I would feel utterly and totally violated by them all over again.
It annoys me that I can never get an app under 3 weeks when I am ill yet when I am perfectly well they contact me to tell me they want to find out if something is wrong with me!!!
Has any one else got an invitation sent to them for this screening?
Linda apparently they sent me a n “invitation ” for this screening with a date and time booked which I never received. They sent a letter after saying that as I hadn’t returned my slip they assumed I did not wish to be screened at this time. I immediately rang to opt out. No pressure put on me at all to change my mind. This is the screeping my friend had where they nicked her bowel and she was wearing a pad for months as she leaked. She had explosive stinking diarrhoea and they then did a full colonoscopy. I wouldn’t fo 4 this if they paid me!!!
I think this screening is if anything WORSE than smears. I managed to have a few smears but I know there’s no way I could havery anything up my backside. In 55 years I never had anything up there and I’m not starting now!!!
The “shove a scope up your backside” screening has been big business in the US for a few decades. It’s about once every 5 years, sold with high-pressure and lots of “awareness campaigns”. It seems that anything that is wrong with your GI system, their goto test. My neighbor had “blood in his stool”, and they pressured him for this test, and only afterward looked for and treat a bleeding ulcer. With about a 6 week wait.
In my own case, I won’t have it. In addition to all of the risks, there is the Versed they use to do a “waking sedation”, which has a very troubling side-effect profile – mainly effecting memory. Additionally, I am a victim of sexual child abuse, including a lot of sodomy. That’s such an issue that I have a firm resolution that I cannot and will not be sodomized again. A BF in the past who tried to “surprise” me with it…. well, I ended up controlling myself. With drugs in my system, I cannot promise I will be able to control myself. Plus, it’s an “extra” felony to attack a healthcare worker while doing their jobs. I don’t want to wake up and say, “We’ve got good news and bad news. The good news is that you don’t have colon cancer. The bad news is that you’re under arrest.”
I too, think it’s bizarre that when I need to see a doctor because I’m sick or injured, but not bad enough to go to an emergency room, it’s about a month wait. When you’re healthy and they want to poke and prod every natural opening I have – often to damage them – the can get you right in. When they cause problems, the poor patient/victim is back to a 6 week wait, or go to the emergency room and pay a few thousand extra $$$.
Oh yeah, they’ll offer a “poop test” that you mail in. Nevermind the issues about mailing potentially infective material. If that comes back “positive” – which can happen easily depending on what you’ve eaten or taken over about the past week, or you’ve got a small “incidental” problem that will clear up, they’ll push even harder to shove the camera up the backside. You can’t win.
Colonoscopies are indeed very big business in the US, with high pressure starting at age 50. Insurance will generally pay for them, and with a cost of about $3,000 per, gastroenterologists are doing them assembly-line style, perhaps 20 or 30 per day. If they overinflate someone’s colon and cause a perforation, that’s just too bad for the patient because they have to sign off on it beforehand. There’s quite a bit of information online from reliable sources stating that this happens much more than reported, as apparently symptoms of a perforated bowel don’t always manifest themselves immediately. I would venture to say the complication rate is much more than 1 in 1000.
There’s testing kits for fecal occult blood. All are a major crock of sh**. All inaccurate. There’s so many ways blood can contaminate the sample for one of these tests and none of it has to do with real cancer. The problem lies within somebody’s chapped dirt chute. Is it cracked, dry, and miserable? Yeast? Do you have ‘roids? All these can contribute blood for a false positive.
These tests are useless.
IF you have tarry dark stools? That’s what to worry about. Some fresh blood unless it’s a lot isn’t a big deal. But if you’ve got the tarry dark turd biscuits? Not good. Because that’s blood leaking far up the pipe. The blood is sticking to the turd and decomposing on its way out. That must be checked.
https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k1747
Hi Linda,
I’m well and truly fully armed for the bowel screening invites, because I remember seeing this last year, that only men showed a benefit to FlexiSig bowel screening but there were no benefits for women. Do the invitations point this out to women? Of course not, since as women, we are too simple to understand the evidence.
I will soon be 58 and my husband 62 and in our area, we have not had the FlexiSig option. My husband has only had 1 bowel screening invite at 60, (went in bin) so I expect his 2nd invite is already in the post…
I certainly won’t be doing mine.
Ada funny u should say that I just saw a piece in daily fail a while back now saying the flexibility sig lulls ppl into false security as it only looks at the bottom of the bowel and left side. Statistically most tumours ARE there but if ppl get symptoms after their clear screening they’re less likely to seek help as they think they’re ok. I also remember something about it only benefitting men. When will they ever be honest? ?
This screening affected my poor friend so badly. Imagine wearing a pad for months because you leak poo. She had explosive stinking diarrhoea and had to insert more enemas every day for months after. Though her problems only began after this screening they then decided to do a full colonoscopy on her just in case. I’d have point blank refused but she had it. She went from being a bubbly outgoing woman into a shadow. Every year she goes to a high skl reunion weelend that year they rented a caravan and she wouldn’t go because of the diarrhoea. Though she’s fine now she regrets ever having the screening and actually said she is beginning to see why I refuse all screening! She has regular mammograms. ..family history and she had a couple benign lumps and she has smears. I think she’s beginning to question….
I’m so sorry for your friend.
I don’t know just what happened, but explosive diarrhea that goes on for MONTHS can well be caused by a microbe. There are a number of them around now which are treatment-resistant, and those strains are COMMONLY found in hospitals and clinics. Moreover, at least with colonscopes, there have been several scandals in the US and Canada where the single-use parts on them had been re-used on every patient for months or years, without even being cleaned!
That is another problem with all of this invasive screening: There is a risk of infection from it. Granted, some clinics are better or worse than others, and there are some ways of finding out in some States in the US, or if they take federal funds. But then, we have to believe they properly follow reporting requirements – which might be as truthy as other things they say, document, or publish.
Some of those transmitted microbes can be passed to others in the household, or to the person’s sexual partner(s). HIV and Hep-B and Hep-C have been passed that way, which can be a death sentence on an unsuspecting and unconsenting person.
Is that risk of infection – sometimes causing sepsis and death – higher than the risk of the condition it’s screening for? It pays to do research.
Omg Beth that’s scary! We didn’t think of that at the time!thank you! Another reason I’ll avoid this screening if I’m offered it again!
So the NHS is now inviting people aged 55 for flexible sigmoidoscopy – is that one off or every 5 years?
That would cost a fortune, much more than the FOBT. The govt program here uses the FOBT from age 50, it’s still piecemeal but think they hope to offer it 2 yearly until age 70 or so in the future.
Some people here pay for a colonoscopy every 5 years from about 50 (earlier with family history) I know a few who’ve had issues. My mother had a small stroke (we think) during the procedure, they took her off Warfarin before the procedure – she’s never been the same, short term memory loss.
A family friend lost some of her bowel, had a colonoscopy, felt unwell when she woke up, pain, then bloating, some light bleeding, she ended up in surgery having a piece of bowel removed. Not sure she got to the bottom of it, she was told a patch of diverticulitis was “irritated” by the scope – she thinks they perforated her bowel.
I’m also, wary that colonoscopies are linked to diverticulitis or aggravate it…
Leave well enough alone is my philosophy….
Hi Elizabeth. Thankfully the bowel scope at 55 is a one off. If u don’t have it when “invited” you can still have it on request up to 60. At 60 u get the s… kits sent in the post…..
Daily fail yesterday ladies DIY smears and urine tests could replace speculum test in about 5 years. The usual pro screeners braying for non screeners blood and how inaccurate the new test is lol….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50287047
DIY home test…….but still they say……………..
However, larger trials may still be needed before the NHS could decide whether to offer it to patients, say experts. Even then, it would only be one option for women – as the researchers believe smear tests would continue in their current form.
But the researchers say that in the future, some women could order the test kits online, use them at home and then send their sample by post to be analysed.
As we know this has been carried out elsewhere for years!
Thanks for coming to my rescue on daily fail Chas….
25% not attending? I’m sure by now it’s way more than that….
You are welcome kat, you have had a lot of up votes so some are taking stock of what you are saying. Also to the rescue thank you kiwicelt, and another called shala? Fantastic comments from you all. If just a few women look into what we have said, research for themselves and wise up to this awful programme then that would be brilliant.
I go in to up or down vote, but Daily Fail doesn’t perform well on my tablet & am loathed to download the mobile app! The votes you have all been getting are really good. Just need to sow the seed of doubt…
I saw the current “invitation” to screen today, the letter women receive in the mail, Australian Government on the envelope, very official looking,” our records indicate you’re eligible etc.”
Not a word about choice or the risks of testing or self testing, just urging the woman to make an appointment. It appears this program will continue to treat women like third class citizens.
No wonder some women view testing as mandated by the Govt, like paying tax.
I suspect the letter has been deliberately drafted to compel women to take part…ask no questions, don’t delay, test!
Good grief.
Shouldn’t they rename themselves SS PAPscreen?
This sounds dictatorial and an abuse of power.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/10/e029551
A step in the right direction. Research looking at the way cervical screening is presented on UK websites.
I’ve just been to the doctors as I have an infection and require blood works to be done.
While I was waiting, I happened to notice a poster warning about the consequences of verbal and physical assault to the staff. It clearly states that no acts of violence will be tolerated and the police will be involved. It even warns about being verbally rude or other unacceptable behaviour to staff and premises.
It made me wonder how I had been treated by staff at this and my previous surgery. Historically I have had to endure half truths, mis truths, no truths, lies, sexual assault and even outright rape. No one will ever be prosecuted over this.
Its not like I can bring in the police to prosecute this. The police won’t get involved and the NHS as an organisation is well protected.
The letter that came from the screening fairies used to be written in such away that I was given no choice to not have a smear test. Dr V insinuated he wouldn’t give me the pill without one. Nurse GG implied they were mandatory and I couldn’t get out of having one. I had seven in all.
In My opinion not only are doctors and nurses liars, they and the organisation as a whole are guilty of seven counts of rape.
Linda, I noticed the same warning on my GPs website, about abuse and violence towards the staff not being tolerated in any shape or form. I thought that’s a bit rich coming from them, but then I had a devilish feeling of satisfaction that they’d had to put this notice up at all. Hope the doctor who assaulted me got some of her own medicine!
The smug and judgemental GP receptionist that once shouted across reception to remind me to book my smear test deserves all she gets. “You need to tell me when you last had your period”. Everyone turned to look at me. I don’t condone violence but in her case I am willing to make an exception.
So… “We are Gods among Men and if you dare question us, criticize us, refuse us in anything, or otherwise fail to treat us as Gods, we will get the police involved.”. Absolutely nauseating.
I went into the local hospital, in a small town in the center of the US to get a flu shot. On the wall was a sign, in both English and Spanish, saying that assault on a healthcare professional performing their duties is a felony.
Gee, if someone is at immanent risk for, or undergoing physical or sexual assault, self defense or defense of another has long been legal and the law. So, if it’s come to this where they assume the right to assault someone, their whole rig-a-ra-marole of “informed consent” has gone out the window, and people ARE feeling the need to defend themselves or others.
It’s a sad day when we’ve come to this – where seeking medical care poses actual danger.
That poster might as well say, “We Reserve The Right To Be Rude And Abusive To You.” If it’s necessary that a poster of that type be displayed, obviously the staff have a very poor reputation they wish to uphold. Can you go elsewhere?
Another law protecting abusers.
Some updates to the reporting handbook –
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cervical-screening-histopathology-reporting-handbook
Chas, just seen a few posts on social media announcing widespread cervical cytology labs decommissioning over the next few weeks. Portsmouth has closed and all work transferred to Chertsey, announces one poster. Others have chipped in with we are next and more to come in the New Year! I think they’re cutting them back from about 45 pathology labs to just 7 centres which will machine test for HPV. All going on about how sad it is and how many lives they’ve saved over the past 30 years…
This is music to my ears LOL
Oh, how sad. Nevermind lol… 😆
Daily fail today ladies smear test attendance rises for 1st time in 5 years..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7710157/amp/Smear-test-attendance-rises-time-FIVE-years-England.html?__twitter_impression=true
Here’s the link, but I seem to be unable to mark up or down any of the comments today…
Thanks for posting the link. This new comment link allowed for marking up and down the comments: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7710157/Smear-test-attendance-rises-time-FIVE-years-England.html#reader-comments
🙂
Thanks for this. Have been in and rated comments. Kat is highest rated commenter with 76 up votes!
Seems it went up by .5 % and it’s not good enough because 1 million still choose not to go due to embarrassment ect
Tried to comment but not sure if it got through, as usual the site continues to crash on me and when I get back in and hit comments nothing happens and now can’t see any of them!
Apparently I’m a very dangerous woman I’m talking rubbish and I’m the same person as an Izziek. ..it’s hilarious
There’s some proper nutters on there! I’m commenting now.
Thanks Ada and also everyone else who’s commenTed too. Isn’t Stockley a darling lol???
I’m late to the party but had a look at the comments.
Many of you made mincemeat out of those idiots!! Haha, lol! 🤣
I suspect the increase is mostly due to those who had been intending to go anyway but had been putting it off.
Don’t really think many informed dissenters, abuse victims etc. will have been swayed by those ridiculous campaigns. And since it’s a knee-jerk reaction, rates could drop again if they stop bombarding us with ‘awareness’.
Last year attendance was 71.4%, and the lower target for cervical screening is 75%, so that 0.5% increase is hardly anything to shout about.
Strange that while both the upper targets for breast & cervical screening are 80%, the lower threshold for breast is 70% but cervical is 75%. Guess when you have an unreliable test for an uncommon disease you need more bums on seats to make the programme ‘successful’.
I noticed from the stats that there were about 45,000 less invitations sent out during those dates so wonder if this has affected the uptake which is always given as a percentage? Have more women who don’t want the test, been opting out, leaving the remaining screening fanatics to produce a higher uptake percentage?
The figures only go up to end of March 2019, so are before those sickening campaigns and the Jade Goody tripe came out, but I see someone posted that they hope the campaigns from last spring will lead to even bigger increases next year. I do hope it’s a massive fail and the numbers sink again, but no matter how low the figures go, there’s always money in the pot for many more of these vile campaigns and failure is a word they use for other women and never for themselves.
Think the trolls r out. Commented 20 mins ago already over 20 dislikes. I’m not gonna lose sleep over it though
Is 0.5% really something to shout about though? From a statistics perspective, 0.5% is tiny and could just be down to dumb luck and who happened to be “due”.
Of course 0.5% is something to shout about. It’s just barely lower than 0.65%, which is the lifetime risk of the average woman to get cervical cancer. They shout and scream and “raise awareness” about that all the time, while using penetration of our vaginas as an admission price to obtaining actual health care.
One thing I’ve noticed in the US recently are “awareness” messages within TV shows. In the past 2 days, I’ve seen one with a sub-plot of several women going to the gyn together, as sort of a feminine bonding thing, and another involving a jail where they not only drastically limit feminine hygiene products – leading to toxic shock, but “punish” the women by withholding their pap smears. As if these two issues are on the same level, or the hygiene product rationing is “a way of life” while the pap smears are a risk to their lives…. as backward as that actually is. I cannot wait to have another pap awareness message next time I watch a TV show.
The Daily Mail stops accepting comments very quickly…..or is it just in relation to cervical screening? Well done everyone that commented. LOL the trolls were there alright, perhaps they actually work in screening & worried for their jobs?
A good site on NNT – for when you need it.
https://www.thennt.com/nnt/hpv-vaccines-prevention-cervical-pre-cancer-adolescent-girls-women/
Human papillomaviruses (HPV) are sexually transmitted infections that are common in young people. In the United States, HPV infects nearly 80 million people. Approximately, one in four Americans are currently infected with HPV. About 14 million individuals become infected with HPV each year in the United States.1 Usually these viruses are cleared by the immune system and pose little threat. The lifetime risk of cervical cancer is approximately 0.6% and the chance of dying from cervical cancer is approximately 0.2%
A total of 26 studies involving 73,428 adolescent girls and women were included in the Cochrane meta-analysis. The authors performed pre-planned analyses separately in groups of women 15-25 and 26-45, as the majority of trials enrolled subjects 25 years of age or younger. It must be noted that 25 out of the 26 trials were sponsored by the vaccine manufacturers.
it is important to remember that the lifetime risk of cervical cancer is approximately 0.6%.3 So even if the vaccine is 100% effective at preventing cervical cancer, the best NNT for cancer prevention over a lifetime would be 167.
https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/18063411.ripped-apart-20-staff-members-affected-wycombe-hospital-shuts-cervical-screening-laboratory/
Bye, bye Bucks!
Ding Dong the witches are gone! 😆
Also seen online in Yorkshire Post 55 job losses there due to re structuring cervical screening services. …
Whilst I am sorry for her ordeal and do feel for her of course, now she is spouting “smear test potentially saved my life”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-50601605
Ms Jenner said she had never had a cervical smear before reporting the rape.
“That smear test found pre-cancerous cells which required treatment. If I had not had the test the cells would not have been found.
“That test potentially saved my life and for that I am thankful,” she said.
Since when did the tests performed on rape victims for evidence include a “smear test” ???
They seem to seize any opportunity, I read about a program/study where they offered inpatients at a large public hospital a pap test, another way to capture women. I was shocked to read one of the survivors of 9/11 was talked into a Pap test while in hospital recovering from her injuries and guess what…abnormal cells!
So naturally the leap to the test saved my life. For many women abnormal cells means cancer around the corner when in fact lots of things can cause an abnormal Pap test – infections, inflammations and even completely normal changes like menopause. That’s why I say lots have been saved from pretend cervical cancer because the real one really doesn’t bother too many women, in the developed world anyway, rare is rare.
Hi AQ
No, it sounded like an opportunistic Pap test, from memory, a nurse approached her while she was recovering from her injuries – if I can find the article, I’ll link it, actually it might have been a book.
https://www.academia.edu/21635468/Cervical_cancer_screening_for_hospital_inpatients_report_of_an_intervention_study
This is an older study, 1995..but it’s happened since, another article was dated 2012 so not sure if they’re still “offering” Pap tests to inpatients at the large public hospitals – there is so little respect for women with this testing, nothing would surprise me.
Found it, the book is called “Angel in the Rubble” by Genelle Guzman-McMillan and William Croyle.
(published in Australia by Allen and Unwin in 2011)
Genelle survived 27 hours under the rubble and was the last survivor to be pulled from the remains of the WTC, she was being treated for a crushed leg, heart problems and I’d say she was also deeply traumatised…
So on page 138, I was shocked to read:
“”nurses did a Pap smear after my surgeries, what I thought was just going to be a routine screening drove me to fear when the results came back: signs of cervical cancer. One of the nurses told me that I would likely have to have my uterus removed, meaning, of course, that I would not be able to have any more children”.
Of course, “after further evaluation” removing the uterus was not going to be necessary, she had the LEEP procedure and the “cancerous cells” were removed.
I found it incredible that a Pap test would be carried out on a patient being treated for serious injuries after a deeply traumatic experience, it was almost certainly opportunistic and led to a lot more anxiety and fear…how many women go through LEEP? How many would have developed actual cc without the procedure? The answer is very few…
Of course, this woman is left to believe her life was saved a second time.
Can you imagine surviving a serious car accident and in your fractured state being wheeled down for a mammogram?
The nurses were probably congratulating themselves and encouraged to test other inpatients, when IMO, they should have been warned, the patient is there to have her injuries treated, preventative health is elective, and up to her to discuss with her GP, if she so chooses, after she’s discharged.
What else did she say?
Did they claim it was “routine” and/or that she MUST have it done?
Did they ask when her last one was done?
Was LEEP performed while she was inpatient?
I’d be sooo pissed off…my husband especially so.
I’d really like to know the background to this.
Did Police doctors talk her into a smear as part of evidence collection? Did they push it as “necessary” because of the circumstances of why she was there?
Maybe an FOI request is in order to establish whether a smear is part of their evidence collection procedure.
I’ve been watching some scifi movies set in the future, and looking at some now-debunked therapies from the 19th and early 20th centuries…. and it’s obvious “What on earth were those people thinking?” in doing or agreeing to such a nonsense and harmful therapy.
I have had a thought: I wonder how medical and sociology textbooks will deal with this frenzy to find CC, along with some of the barbaric and harmful treatments or therapies for those things? Or, how it was considered “proper” to have a stranger sexually penetrate you every year (at least), to get the ball rolling on the more intense therapies and treatments? Or, how much we spent doing it!
Beth, the history of cervical cancer screening is extremely interesting and quite by chance I picked up Illana Löwy’s book on the history of cervical cancer screening quite cheaply and it is a very good read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilana_L%C3%B6wy In it she describes how private healthcare companies wanted to put their customers through regular anhual medical tests so that they wouldn’t have to pay out for any future diseases, and sought out any medical procedures which needed to be done repetitively. There was a lot of opposition to Papanicolou’s test as it was widely accepted by expert medical practitioners to be highly unreliable, but the insurer’s wanted to test their customers annually and needed criteria to do so.
I’d still like to get her other book on “Preventive strikes” but haven’t got around to it yet.
Also, Linda Bryder’s book on “The unfortunate experiment’ at National Women’s hospital” in Auckland is fantastic, but very difficult to get hold of and has been largely suppressed by the pro-screening lobby. I think she’s even had death threats for writing it.
I found a discussion of “The unfortunate experiment” at https://bostonreview.net/science-nature/carl-elliott-what-new-zealands-unfortunate-experiment-can-teach-us-about-medical-abuse It’s mentioned on Goodreads at https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6818227-a-history-of-the-unfortunate-experiment-at-national-women-s-hospital where they have individuals’ reviews, and sources to purchase the book or obtain it from a library.
From the short descriptions of Illana Löwy’s book it would appear that it’s another book describing the pap test’s use and importance, and that our cervixes will all explode or something if they’re not carefully monitored.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5512163_Debates_about_cervical_screening_An_historical_overview
Beth, I’m with Lynda Bryder all the way. Herbert Green might have been an “old school” Catholic, but he was right, that only about 10% of lesions would ever go on to become cancer over several years. He was right, that the best policy for young women was minimal hysterectomy-sparing treatment, and he was opposed to nationwide screening programmes because the vast majority of women would not benefit. Incidentally, the “victim” at the centre of this fiasco, Clare Matheson, is doing fine living in Auckland in her 90s, still claiming her life was risked by Green’s conservative treatment. The feminist reporters Bunkle and Coney are living the quiet life, Bunkle having been arrested for shoplifting booze a few years ago.
Green’s conservative methods were on the cusp of proving that very few lesions would ever go on to become cancer, and that little could be achieved by national screening programmes. This made him many enemies among the pro-screening lobby. Unfortunately, these 2 fanatical dimwit feminists attacked someone who could have spared us these vile screening programmes, in the mistaken belief that women were being deprived of miracle medical treatment.
My apologies, I’ve given wrong info about Clare Matheson – she died last year aged 81. Not sure what was the cause of death.
I just finished reading _A Woman’s Disease_ by Ilana Löwy. It was a much better read than I expected. A good bit of the book has to do with the wrong people are getting too many paps, and too much treatment, while those in extreme poverty – where the incidence of CC is much higher – possibly due to early sex, sexual violence, more and earlier pregnancies – as well as a general lack of hygiene and sterile things puts them more at risk. She leaves out such things as an adequate diet – lacking by the very poor and important to immune functions.
She does point out the misapplication of statistics with HPV and CC. Most CC cases are associated with HPV. That does not mean that most women with HPV get CC – in fact, very few do. Women with HPV are under a greater microscope, have more testing, and more treatments.
She points out that there is a lack of uniform rules about who to screen and when – especially in the US when every practice can have their own rules.
Women are often left with untrue beliefs about what a pap test will and will not do. She brings up one notion that it’s a “general clean-out” (we’ve discussed that some men seem to have this notion), or that it protects or treats ALL STDs – and reduces the practices such as condom use or limit the number of sexual partners – and having a high pap-uptake can actually INCREASE both STDs and CC. Of course, there are the false positives that lead many women to believe they are or were cancer patients. Some women even believe that their libido is what caused their cancer! And, that women who do not attend such screenings are lazy and neglectful, probably diseased certainly doesn’t help.
She also (thankfully) mentions that all of this testing and treatment is anything but “harmless”. Speculum insertion can hurt some women (leaving out that inserting anything into a vagina without the woman’s consent is rape), the pain caused by the brush, pain caused by scooping out insides from HPV – and the pain of follow-on treatments after abnormal results. Few abnormal smears cause CC, but they’re all treated as if they were. She mentions how this causes some women to fear their own bodies when they cannot get a concrete diagnosis – continual abnormal paps, normal (painful) follow-on tests, no treatment, another abnormal test…. They’re neither diagnosed with cancer nor are they not diagnosed with it – sort of a limbo. The US has 3 million abnormal pap tests, 12,000 diagnoses of CC, and 4,000 deaths from CC. Something is way “off” here.
This article starts off promising, but lo and behold, cervical screening raises its ugly head again which makes me wonder, what is the real agenda here? Is it really about enabling better access to contraception and the morning after pill (because let’s face it, it’s never been about protecting women’s health has it), or shady attempts at “capturing” and increasing that screening uptake. When they are closing down sexual health clinics and gradually eroding access to contraception, how on earth are they going to afford these “one stop shop” clinics anyway? Will the staff there be adequately trained to accept the word “NO” when it comes to screening and deal appropriately with refusals? How can they guarantee that these staff will be any more empathetic than the judgemental pharmacists being complained about?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50601735
The following makes for very interesting reading:
https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/campaigns-and-opinions/better-for-women/key-recommendations/
Take a look at #18. They are targeting “disadvantaged” and “vulnerable” women – it suggests they’re aware of a growing number of assertive and informed women who are declining screening and will continue to do so come hell or high water!
Forgot to mention, there is a recommendation to roll-out the self-testing HPV kit in there “with immediate effect”. I bet that won’t go down well lol….
Thanks for the link you provided:
https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/campaigns-and-opinions/better-for-women/life-course-approach/
How do they know or prove the following statement:
The number of deaths from cervical cancer is predicted to grow by 143% by 2040
If most young girls have had the HPV Vaccination then why would they state such an increase in cervical cancer? Seems very odd to me!
That depends on what they are assuming. What will the population be in 2040? If it’s increasing, where will they come from? Is that because of births being greater than deaths? Immigration? If so, from where? What will their ages be? Will those people be vaccinated from HPV too? We know that CC peaks at middle age.
If they expect the population to triple by 2040, increase of CC cases/deaths by 143% represents a significant decrease. If they expect it to stay the same, or decrease by 2040, WHY do they expect CC to increase? Do they expect something else, like something involving radiation to happen (radiation leaks, war, more radioactive substances in the environment)?
A statistic like that in a vacuum is meaningless.
I agree with Beth. Elderly population in UK is set to grow substantially by 2040 and as cc deaths are mostly in elderly women there will be an increase, as there will be in all elderly people’s diseases, but it’s being pushed like it’s an epidemic growing. It will fall drastically afterwards as vaccinated cohorts will be 45 then.
My GP practice has just decided to brave the public and get a facebook account.
Patient has posted: “XX Medical Centre is the biggest pile of wank”.
Made my day.🤣🤣
😂😂
https://www.catalyststockton.org/screen-stars/
You can’t get lower than this in UK. I thought all this sort of advertising was done with years ago, but look like it’s come back.
Ada it’s sick but maybe they’re realising. ..scare campaigns aren’t working. Tv ads aren’t working. Maybe more are opting out or saying NO when badgered. So this is their next idea….
Not sure many will take it up though….
Note that the link to view the “rewards” doesn’t work. I expect that’s to stop women looking them up and finding out they’re not worth the effort!
scroll down to the pink part and each area will show the so called rewards, hit each and you will see the rewards are nothing to shout about!! Makes me so dam mad to see this sick pathetic bribery!
https://middlesbrough.gov.uk/social-care-and-wellbeing/public-health/screening-saves-lives/cervical-screening/screen-stars
So it’s a free small coffee or a haircut with the trainee? Just wondering if it’s a ploy to get the homeless in? I see one of them in Redcar is at a barbers shop & is a half price hair cut for “man or boy”. Now that really is prostitution! It’s sad in a way, but then they all voted for Brexit there, so who cares!
So, I could save £5 (Terms and Conditions apply) if I get my smear card stamped every 3 or 5 years?
Gosh, sign me up 🤔🙄
Didn’t NHS England do something similar with breast-feeding a few years ago (which, rightly) came under very heavy criticism.
This is really quite tacky. If they are going to issue “loyalty cards”, they will soon resemble the sort of ID cards issued by the Gestapo in Nazi Germany.
It’s an indication that informed consent is still ignored in womens cancer screening, it’s still about getting women into screening any way they can, if it works, do it! I think the program only ever “worked” when consent and informed consent were ignored, the strong arm tactics in the UK (the call and recall system)produced very high screening rates, but large numbers of women were simply pressured, insulted or coerced into screening. Our opportunistic program never achieved the same results but we now have a system that attempts to exert a lot more control – it will be interesting to see the numbers after the first 5 years. The screening letters are very official looking, I thought it was a letter from the Tax office, it certainly doesn’t sound like an invitation. (I haven’t received one, still happily out of the system, hope it stays that way but if it arrives, I’ll deal with it, will almost enjoy dealing with it!)
An informed woman isn’t going to be tempted by these incentives, so they probably assume it’s safe to tempt women who might be staying away for other reasons.
Interesting, if they offered an incentive to have a colonoscopy, punctured the bowel, the lawyers would have a field day, is consent clouded when an incentive is offered? I’d say yes, it’s unethical at the very least..
They probably feel safer offering incentives to have breast and cervical screening because a woman having surgery or treatment for a “breast cancer” or for DCIS can always be told, “it might go on to full blown cancer, we just don’t know so it’s safer to treat it”…
That statement says to me you have a lousy screening test…
Elizabeth, I’m sorry not to be in a position to turn those letters down. Every time I saw the uptake going down it actually gave me some satisfaction that I was a thorn in the side of my GPs uptake figures in having opted out. Now I am not eligible and don’t count.
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2020/01/06/cytology-breast-screening-needs-you/
Apparently it’s a simple apprenticeship that will transform your caring and people skills into another career where informed consent is routinely ignored.
I don’t see how staring down a microscope looking for dodgy cells improves your people skills. The only transferable skills would be using the equipment to gain as much information without reference to the patient. Oh – wait a minute – I see what they did there. 🙄
This is the problem with screening in the UK. The service is delivered by semi-skilled healthcare workers, whose hearts are in the right places but are not able to provide the higher level information women need to make an informed decision. They say they are there to answer questions and deal with any queries the public has, but in reality they often don’t know anything about the debate surrounding screening and never even heard of the 2013 Cochrane Review, which found no benefits but much harm. Easy to see why most women are oblivious to there being any problem with mammography.
Reading some of the comments on the PHE Blog, and one in particular, literally took my breath away.
A doctor had written in, clearly puzzled that his patient had tested positive for HPV and had undergone coloposcopy the previous year, and had just tested negative for HPV.
His question was, whether the coloposcopy had “cured” his patient of HPV? The answer was apparently, yes! 😮
They were very vague when challenged by another commenter who suggested that it was not likely that a coloposcopy could do this and that the culprit was more likely to be her immune system!
Of course, the suggestion that HPV can be “cured” by a coloposcopy flies in the face of NHS guidance which advises that HPV can “lie dormant”!
Can it lie dormant, Ada? I thought that was just an unproven theory thrown around to keep the HPV negative women coming back for their Paps.
So, it seems this doctor doesn’t actually know what a colposcopy involves. Amazing how medicine always wants to take credit for every positive outcome and ignores every other factor at work. And if things get worse, it’s always the patients fault.
As for the mammography thing… staggering. If they really think someone peering at skin cells all day is so smart they can take on any branch of medicine, why not train them as GP’s? But no, got to protect the programme.
Think it was AQ who mentioned this, and just Googling the subject seems to show they really don’t know if the disease can hang around for years or whether it may be a new infection. Of course their main issue is that women who have been negative for a few smears will stop attending, and they don’t want women to get ideas like that in their heads do they? Makes you wonder if they are using this to keep women in the system.
If HPV could “lie dormant”, that would mean human immune system was unable to eliminate the virus and develop immunity to to it. This in turn would mean that HPV vaccines could not possible work.
So, logically, it appears that the medical system wants to have its cake and eat it at the same time: get little girls to the doctors to HPV-vaccinate them alongside with grooming and brainwashing them, and also make mature HPV-clear women to keep fearing for trier cervixes, and come back for more screening and testing.
I am sure I have seen somewhere – either published on an NHS website or stated elsewhere – that HPV can be “dormant”. This is DESPITE the fact that they tell women in their leaflets that abnormalities can clear up on their own.
Another golden nugget is telling women who have had the HPV vaccine that they must be screened as screening cannot prevent all cervical cancers (alluding to adenocarcinoma no doubt). Cervical screening is said to prevent around 7 out of 10 cases developing into cancer, those associated with types 16 & 18 of the Human PapillomaVirus.
The contradiction is staggering! Own goal there NHS!
*Sorry, meant to say, as the vaccine cannot prevent all cases of cervical cancer.
I don’t buy the dormant HPV argument, I think that’s used to keep women coming back, keep the numbers high, the reasoning would be, HPV- woman might not be at risk but if she knows that, stops screening and her husband strays, she might get a new infection, no screening, might get cancer.
The profession from the very start cut women out of the information loop, made sure we didn’t have access to real information that might help us make an informed decision, they would make any decisions for us, the fact we might live with negative consequences was fine, it was for the best in the long run, for all women.
It the 1950’s argument, don’t worry your pretty head, we’ll sort it out.
It’s highly offensive stuff…
It didn’t matter if you were 60 and no longer sexually active, because you MIGHT meet someone, get infected…women never sexually active, well, she might be lying to get out of screening, women in lifetime mutually monogamous relationships, well, he might have lied to her, he might stray…
So that’s the thinking…
I was surprised to read on a health forum about 8 years ago, a Dutch woman who was told, you’re fine but if you have sex again, you might want to test for HPV again.
Oh, the horror, giving women real information and choices!
I’ve always believed we make the best decisions when we have all the information – good and bad.
It was impossible to make an early decision in the early days unless you went into the Medical Library so they obviously felt safe to lie their heads off….
So I have always felt the dormant thing is about keeping women in the dark, because they might stop screening and end up getting HPV again…a new relationship, one night stand, whatever…
I actually found a gynaecologist making this point on a health forum quite a few years ago, that is, it would be dangerous leaving these decisions to women, and there was really no issue screening women for most of their lives, even HPV- women.
Oh really, I wonder how he’d feel about having an unnecessary and invasive test every couple of years that also carried a high risk of over-diagnosis/over-treatment!
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2758329
Good to see this is causing a lot of condemnation on social media at the moment.
DaI’ll fail today ladies young woman dying of cervical cancer after being refused a smear test. Doc put her bleeding down to the Pill….
It seems she’d had a smear the year before her diagnosis, but no one questioned what the outcome of it was, or why it didn’t pick up any “abnormalities”.
One poster who was anti-screening made the point, but no pro-screening posters mentioned it. Probably didn’t enter their heads.
Very few could understand why it was diagnostic testing the woman needed and not another god damn smear.
Thick as mince springs to mind….
Also today’s daily fail a puzzled mum who had her daughter vaccinated for HPV. Her daughter now has HPV….
Ada have u heard tha latest? Apparently GPs r up in arms as part of cancer strategy they’re going 2 b expected to go into care homes ect regularly and examine residents for signs of cancer so it can be caught earlier? Also they’re expected to do work to identify who’s using carbon neutral inhalers and also more worrying to drive uptake up for breast bowel and cervical screening also lung cancer screening? I thought they decided against mass screening in form of chest x rays?
I wonder what else they will do to drive uptake for screening (though nice to see men don’t escape scot free with the bowel sh*t and scrape test)?
Matt Hancock comes across as being quite militant. Not so long ago, he was discussing mandatory MMR jabs (though the suggestion has apparently been gunned down).
What tactics will they use to drive uptake for screening and what resources will be attached to it? It can’t all be care home diagnoses as these people are beyond the screening age.
Will we see a return of the tactics used in the 80s I wonder?
ADA I really hope not. Im just glad I opted out when I did. Hope most of the ppl in care homes who are able to manage their affairs refuse these cancer checks!
We’ve said for a long time that sooner or later they’d be going into the care homes to get people to test if the “uptake” became too low or fell below a certain threshold. To make a go of it in any way, they have to have enough people to test.
They’ve decided against mass screening in the form of chest x-rays for lung cancer, but still do breast x-rays for breast cancer “prevention” on a mass scale. This is even when the majority of residents in care homes are beyond the recommended age for breast, bowel, and cervical screenings – recognizing that it causes more harm than good, and even what they find will likely be “incidentalomas” – cancers which are growing sufficiently slowly that they will not trouble the person during their lifetime.
Imagine subjecting someone in a care home, possibly with dementia and already coming to the end of their life, to this? These people are scared and confused. These procedures are also likely to be painful for them as well.
This is actually quite barbaric, but no doubt, the NHS are purveyors of devious practices and will go along with it. This needs to be highlighted for the utter inhumanity it is! I am appalled! (though there’s nothing new there).
For a health care system with already limited resources to even consider this is unconscionable. Even in our profit driven system in the US, cancer screening is not recommended unless the life expectancy is at least ten years.
In the US, resources are certainly anything but unlimited! It is utterly ludicrous to use scarce medical resources and money for cancer screening – often as a doorway or “entrance fee” to getting health care that is needed to maintain life.
If someone is bleeding to death in the emergency room, a lecture on cancer screenings is a waste of time and energy. If someone is going to the doctor to get treatment for diabetes, it’s ludicrous to “require” that the person spend thousands of dollars on colonscopies, breast screenings, pap tests (and their follow-ons) before the diabetes, high blood pressure, or such can or will be addressed.
It’s no wonder that the US outspends every other country on medical treatment, and has the worst outcomes and lowest life expectancy of any developed country.
Beth I totally agree. I’m fuming now because I needed an appoint urgently but had to wait ages as the only available appointments were with Dr Smear Test who hijacks my time with smear pressure. Finally had appointment with someone else signed off work on the spot going for xray tomorrow with suspected neck and shoulder nerve damage! So how could a smear have helped that?? Blergg
Yes. They claim that there is a doctor shortage and nursing shortage, and people have to wait a long time for urgent appointments, but they find all of this time for the pap crap and associated pressure for that and other screenings. Even when you get an appointment for an urgent matter, it’s hijacked with pap crap (whether you give in or not), then a second wait for the “urgent” matter – which has often cleared up by then or it’s gotten severe enough to send you to the hospital.
Oh, but if there was only a way these people could be persuaded to see a doctor for an urgent matter before it became an emergency….
In the US, it’s all good, because it all costs money payable to the physician’s group, hospital, and physician.
Kat, I’ve only just picked up on your comments. It’s a worry that in spite of the NHS being so strapped for cash, there’s nothing stopping the screening juggernaut, aka preventive healthcare, which is Matt Hancock’s pet project. I largely think it is because this arm of medicine is highly marketable, and has been largely privatised already, especially in London, although always under the NHS logo. I’ve noticed a lot of hospitals offering evening drop-in services, as well as some GP surgeries.
Hpv and older women on woman’s hour today 6/7/20
Beth it’s not good is it? I’m just praying there’s no lasting damage with my neck and shoulder. It’s horrendously painful. Bit what’s scarier is the women who manage illnesses like asthma and diabetes themselves with drugs from the Internet because they can’t face the pap crap
I hope your neck and shoulder recover fully and SOON. I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. 😦
It has crossed my mind to “manage” my diabetes and hypothyroid on my own. I don’t trust most of the online pharmacies – which actually broker their sales through the Philippines, often with counterfeit drugs originating in China or other countries with no protections for such things as patents. I understand some people have had good results from some of them though.Eating boiled chicken necks would get me some thyroid hormone, and I would have to eat MUCH less to keep my blood sugar in check without medications.
Honestly – should anyone have to choose being triggered through a year or periodic flashbacks as the “price” to get medical treatment for an actual condition for that year – only to be repeated the next year. Especially when I have “access” through a government-funded program? Even if I accept that my risk for coming up with CC this year is 0.0056%, whereas being retriggered on rape/sexual abuse has an 8% rate for successful suicide…. hmmm, let me think.
Do you think for one second that I’m going to even consider the notion of colposcopy/”punch biopsy” (tearing off hunks of my cervix (with clitoral nerves, no less! and without anesthesia) or “cone biopsy” (with even more risks, including to pelvic and vagus nerves!)
Holding my medical treatment hostage to “agreeing” to such, or even implying that, is not much different than holding a knife to someone’s throat, and demanding sexual access implying they will slit her throat if they don’t. The second situation is considered a violent act, and although someone could theoretically say, “No sex for you. Go ahead and stab me!”, it’s hardly “consent”. It’s rape. It’s also rape when it’s done via pure coercion (you will permit me to penetrate your vagina and/or anus or I’ll refuse to treat you for life-limiting conditions). If a plumber refused me their professional services unless I offered myself to them sexually, that too would be rape, even though I won’t die from broken plumbing. What gives doctors a pass on this?
Know this. I take my copy of the Trovagene Urine Based HPV test I completed in 2015 which is 93% accurate vs pap at 50%. I give that to my doctor proving I’m “clean” and so is my husband. I have not been challenged into having a pap. It’s not even discussed. I recently consulted with an MD out of town and on first visit didn’t challenge me either.
Second, take a printout of the Delphi Screener and offer to do that instead.
Third, via TRUSCREEN FAQ I got a printout of their ad. It shows a pic of the device and a statement under which says, “Pap tests are subjective and vary significantly–only giving approximately 50% accuracy.
After that?
Confront them with the lack of Full Informed Consent for them not informing you of the above.
Offer to take one of the alternatives.
Go to youtube videos or to a Medical Library and download what is said re “felt pain” during pap, and especially during colposcopies. Inform doc that the “patient friendly” brushes for colposcopy have hidden among the nylon bristles steel and/or brass bristles. Tell them that IF you do have HPV it’s a guarantee that using invasive instruments on you will force an infection which you won’t be able to fight off.
Would you clean off a scraped knee with a popsicle stick? That’s unsterilized to boot?
Confront them re pain. Your cervix is much like the head on a penis. The nerves connect to S2 and above. That means the cervix is extremely innervated and does feel and transmit pain. Make Dr perform a nerve block. If he refuses then make a giant fuss. Why give in?
If you prove the test is only 50% accurate then you prove the doc has nothing to stand on. And that for a test that exposes you to worse (if virus is present the scrape puts it there to stay as said which can also be looked up).
Explain that you won’t consent to the horrible pain of having your cervix ripped to pieces. Take your sig other along for support. Do not give in.
Do not buy into the bullying lecture that “you’ll die IF…” It’s bullshit. Certainly if there was a terrible threat there would be a “real” test not the bogus pap.
Let me know how it goes.
Thank u Beth x hope you heal top x
What happened to your neck/shoulder?
Cat & Mouse – That is really useful! Are you in the US?
Yes. In SouthernCA.
You may credit my husband for this. Been married 31yrs. He pretty much demanded to go with me to my then-pap exam the second year we were dating.
So I decided to take him on threat he’d likely break up with me later on. He wanted me to go to his doctors with him as well as going with me. Reason? He felt patients needed an advocate to help deal with the doctor’s BS and that also as a “witness.” And to prevent molest when we’re undressed.
So I took him. I had Kaiser back then.
The physician assistant, male, I had that day asked a LOT of inappropriate questions. He kept going on as to whether we invited or had multiple partners. I mean, he asked and repeated the same specific questions about both men and women. Until finally my future hubby asked “We said we’re monogamous. What don’t you understand about that?” Then the questions stopped.
The exam was ok. He actually warmed up the plastic speculum at the sink first.
But very creepy.
It’s because of that, and that fact that his ex-best friend from high school (father baptist preacher) has become a pervert anesthesiologist now practicing in VA. That guy gets off on naked “trimmed” red heads. He married one. His first marriage however, bombed as she (another doctor in AL) cheated.
When he stayed with us during his residency he had sex with a neighbor. She began complaining about his lack of talent and even said, “…he did nothing.”
When my husband tried talking to him re sex he refused to listen.
Imagine that; a doctor who knows all about anatomy but cannot get a woman to orgasm if his life depended upon it… Like a teen who builds his own car but never learns to drive.
This guy lied to us about nearly everything we ever asked him. Especially about the pap exam.
My husband got me the hell away from him too.
We should thank the ex best friend. In some strange way, he got my husband to research pap and other medical things.
It is how I got to use the Trovagene Urine Based HPV exam. And my husband ordered my doctor then to order it for me.
This site has been extremely helpful to us.
It’s a pleasure to share what helped us.
WE MUST STOP THE ABUSE!
Look up what we say. Understand it. Print it (edited by moderator)
I’ve told and shown my (female) doc that paps are less than 50% accurate. She just huffed and disagreed, and said, “They are VERY accurate”. She also disagreed that they were painful. My last one 23 years ago was very painful, because those nitwits first stuck the speculum in my urethra (stretched and damaged from some extreme catheterization), then the same morons couldn’t find my cervix! Anyway, in the last appointment with my “regular” doc, in a few minutes, she accepted my firm “NO” and went on.
Last year, I had the doc switched out with <1 day notice with a male doc because "she's still not back from maternity leave". There was no amount of anything that could get this doc off of "I need to (do all of these things) and give you a pap test RIGHT NOW, implying strongly that I would not get treatment for diabetes if I refused. I still refused, and I got my prescriptions for the diabetes needs. Now I'm due again… or no diabetes treatment. 😦 He wasted the appointment time so I couldn't talk about something that could be a real problem.
This time, I am going to confront her (or whoever I get this time) with information that they are not "very accurate" (and be prepared that it's "something on the internet" when it comes from a recognized medical journal, plus I am not going to consent to having my cervix ripped apart – and I expect even harder insistence that I have that if or when it's positive.
My SO and I accompany one another to (almost) all medical appointments – partly to help remember what was said, partly to keep from having something sprung on us without our consent.
BTW, I said "almost" because very occasionally one of us will have an appointment without the other. Most recently, it was an appointment with my dental hygienist, and he was sick with something flu-like, which I'd gotten over. She was surprised to see me alone, but at the same time, I don't expect her to do anything untoward. Had that been a medical appointment, I would have cancelled saying *I* was sick.
What I said re Omega 3 is very important to lowering inflammatory conditions in body. Get shelled hemp seed and add it to nearly everything you can.
You said you live in UK?
Hope what I said educates and helps. If you can use it to stand up for yourself successfully as we have then all the time invested was well worth it.
How can your female doctor presume to know how a pap feels for you and others? The arrogance. They tell themselves what they want to believe to justify their unconscionable behavior, i.e. not caring about the patient’s pain or consent and putting screening targets first.
To understand them is to realize how they are trained.
Not only do they buy into this BS themselves; they learn how to sell it to us.
They are taught we are too stupid to decide for ourselves. So that’s how “decision-sharing” came into the exam room. No longer are we given Full Informed Consent.
That’s the problem.
@Rose2: “How can your female doctor presume to know how a pap feels for you and others?”
My.mom.had a UTI last year,and when she went to the doctor, the female doctor she didn’t believe my mom. knew where the pain was. She wanted to know how mom knew she had a UTI, mom said it was because of where the pain is, then sneered that shed be the judge, then was stunned that yes,the pain was exactly where my.mom.said it was.
She also was fascinated aged by things my mom read on the internet about how UTIs work, as it turns out she knows very little about them.
Disappeared battery of tests on my.mom because apparently being a fidgeter is an indication of a myriad of Very Bad Things ToFear, plus a hysterectomy due to her age. My mom…will not be doing any of that and was disgusted at the opportunism.
I’ve had a lot of dismissive doctors and nurses. I’ve had a few good ones along the way.
Most of them, so it seems, seem to think that people cannot feel their own body. I’ve had a nurse roughly rip out a catheter, and when I complained, “That does not hurt! You have no nerves down there!” I’ve had the same thing said about my cervix (as Kinsey claimed 70 years ago). I was told that I could not feel a tear in my rectum, but I got the doc to humor me and examine it, and yes, sure enough. Then I got a lecture about anal sex! (That wasn’t the cause, and the damage caused by anal sex was not done with my consent.) That doesn’t seem to matter either. I’ve had catheters installed when I was in an operating room for emergency surgery after I’d refused it, then traumatically removed. The records were evidently scrubbed to get rid of the catheterization, as they didn’t want to pay for the repair… but I never got it dealt with by a doctor – I couldn’t face the thought – but eventually got it to heal with kegels and a stainless-steel barbell to provide resistance for kegel exercises.
My MIL has a wild theory, that the more I see and hear appears to be correct: Medical personnel come from another planet, and that alien race has no feeling anywhere inside their bodies. I cannot take this wild theory seriously, but just how much does reading and studying falsehoods that “there are no nerves” take away from a person being able to actually FEEL anything? Especially when there are genuine articles written by neurologists and physiologists describing where and how nerves are, what they do, and how they work.
When I read about how some women go through what is described as “birth rape”, it seems clear that they have utterly no empathy.
@Demonhype They act so amazed when patients are aware that they have a common infection or some other issue that can be readily self diagnosed based on symptoms. It really reinforces my belief that a lot of doctors see the body as a domain that they have special rights to above and beyond the rights of the individual. It’s so thoroughly objectifying. I hope your mom is okay now and good on her for resisting the pressure. All women past reproductive age are at risk of having their female organs essentially harvested. Those pesky female organs only cause problems in the minds of medicine. Makes it easy to see how “wandering womb” and the like could have been so easily accepted by physicians. Our reproductive organs are essentially seen as accessories once childbearing is over.
I already have been using Omega-3s for many years.
I live in the US. So, not only is medical care held hostage to this nonsense, I’m paying by the minute for their attempts to coerce me. It can also be looked at as a form of bill-padding and (attempted) upselling. Insurance companies are not too happy with other such things when they happen.
I have successfully resisted these horrible examinations for around 23 years now. I mainly did that by avoiding medical care. However, I can no longer do so.
Holding one’s medical treatment hostage to an invasive test, particularly one which has nothing to do with the condition at hand is unethical, and probably illegal. I have found a case involving the Title IX program and planned parenthood, where the government withheld payment for these tests which are unnecessary to get birth control pills. The court said it put an “undue burden” on women. Thus, it is also an undue burden to require them in order to get unrelated medical treatment. Indeed, requiring an unrelated invasive test to receive medical treatment is illegal, violates consent, bodily autonomy.
I feel that I can go in THIS YEAR and (hopefully) see my regular doctor again. I will refuse to see that (expletive) who planned what amounts to rape by coercion last year.
Can you get me any of that info re the Title IX case? I’d love to have that.
Something to shove back in the faces of nurse bullies who claim that doc will go to jail if I don’t have pap. As if giving me The Pill or HRT w/o pap will get the doc felony charges.
Have any of you heard that one?
These same nurses will then whine about how women elsewhere are treated disrespectfully & poorly.
Cat & Mouse: I’ve looked, and cannot find that case. I thought I had left a link in my pap refusal document, but it’s not there.
I did find a statement/recommendation from the ACOG (seldom our friend!) that spells out that pelvic exams, cervical or breast cancer screenings are NOT recommended to be a requirement to access contraception. https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Gynecologic-Practice/Access-to-Hormonal-Contraception?IsMobileSet=false Their justification is that not using contraception, and risking pregnancy, is far riskier than forgoing the tests.
Bodily autonomy comes to mind, as well as the generally recognized right to health care. The patient’s bill of rights, available visibly in most clinics, ensures your right to refuse any treatment. This is a legal statement, and is not mere decoration. There are State laws, and some federal laws that can come into play on this too.
Cat and Mouse I think it’s general wear and tear as I do an active physical job and I’m mid 50’s bit doc noticed my shaking hans and twitching finger…
It’s really painful too.
I’m a trade union Rep and after kicking off at work they made modification which will help too. We just have a really toxic sickness absence policy. Literally told your an inconvenience and you can’t have any more time off for x amount of time. Problem is there’s always tons going round in a school lol!!
Do you live in US? Or Canada or UK?
Have you heard of chronic regional pain syndrome or Reflex Sympathetic Sympathetic Syndrome?
I have that. In 1997 I got to a very good pain doctor who Dx’d it and then pointed us toward lots of literature.
Do not ever take antidepressants nor shit like gabapenten. The latter short circuits your nervous system. The first has a black box warning against violence. The first two weeks on or off your propensity to attack self or others is very high. You’ll either find religion or a long prison sentence. All the mass murderers here who later had “lights on but nobody home” mug shots were on these. Makes me wonder what Liberal therapists did to point them in the bad direction. Prophecy? Well, the migrant hassles certainly are. I could go on…
It’s a miracle, truly, gift from God that I was diagnosed properly and that we also got out of the pap mess.
I have a book re fibromyalgia and chronic pain. it covers RSD as well. I just loaned it out but will get the name and post it here. I agree with everything in the book except antidepressants, BS meds like gabapenten, and in heavy use of NSIDS.
Problem with new DEA narcotic dosing? Chronic pain sufferers get same doses as those just injured. No more no exceptions. Seriously, I’d like to make everybody at DEA suffer what I have for one hour. That’s all the men could endure. Then let’s see their attitude. I was rated at 1:40,000 addiction potential.
Why didn’t I have problems? Why didn’t I abuse? Because I had the right doctor who believed me—and most of all—I was prescribed brand name meds. Not the generic BS that doesn’t work!!
Generics are supposed to be 90-105% of brand spec for all categories. How it dissolves, how long it works, how well it relieves pain.
I can tell you from experiences that these generics, especially those by Mellonkropdt Pharma, are pure placebo junk!! I need a shoulder total joint replacement plus knee TJR. My pain is proven, documented over years by multiple doctors, and very real. Generics don’t work. They don’t relieve pain more than 50% and they don’t last more than 5 hours instead 8-12 as advertised.
Pain effects the brain. If you’re never out of pain, you are never able to rest. You are in constant inflammatory state. So is it such a surprise that people take more meds? And then labeled freaks and addicts…
Order your doctor to perform a “prior authorization” to try and get you brand meds.
If you have Kaiser get the hell away from it. Before they kill you. After all, you cost those self centered docs their yearly bonus’. My pleasure in life would be subjecting doctors to pain and then giving them generic meds while denying their symptoms. Let’s see how they deal with it…
Get off meat. If the animal has a bad day and secrets stress hormones..well that’s what you’re eating.
Organic milk with DHA algal oil.
Flood your body with omega-3 oils like hemp, coconut, avocado, grape seed, or canola. The oils must be cold pressed and cold processed. No solvent extraction. This will serve to reduce inflammation internally. Reduce sugar intake. The body under stress hogs sugar. BTW we use that oil on everything. We drink it. My cholesterol is 129 and I’m 75 pounds overweight.
Get on medical marijuana. Do not smoke. Vaporize it. Research flowers. Pulsar makes good cheap vaporizers. Ooze has the Draught; cheap works very well and we love it. Great factory support. Avoid Pax. Pax=expensive pain in the ass. DaVinci is ok but costly.
Those on MM usually require 50% less narcotics. I cut my needs 80%. My pain doc now approves.
MM helps migraines, pain, sleep, and even getting stuff done during the day. Know your strains.
Ooze sells scales so you can make your own cannaoil too. Do not use butter unless grass fed/organic.
Vegetarians and vegans live longer and have better sex lives.
Use Endoca CBD/CBDa oil. Begin with 3 drops morning and evening plus when you need more. Then taper after a month to what you need. This $100 investment for 30ml is the best thing you can do. Use this and you won’t need so much narcotic.
Marijuana flower is wonderful. Research it through Leafly, Allbud, and Maryjane etc. I wish I’d gotten on it earlier.
You can go online and find the strains that might work for you. Then go out and buy them; try them. If they smell good to your nose they’ll probably work well. And MM is great for sex too. Especially edibles. Protabs (brand) are very effective.
Did you know MM (THCv) helps you lose weight?
Get back to me.
PS My husband is writing this for me. I’m pretty screwed up. He is my caregiver.
Costco sells a food-based vitamin. Be sure to have Vit C, calcium, magnesium, zinc. Taurine will help energy. Soy lecithin, DHA algal oil for brain (look them up)! L-lysine for tissue regeneration. L-argenine for sex and heart (believe me…oh you will both “arrive” not just come). And I believe in HRT so long as you have progesterone to oppose estrogen. And you include testosterone. How is your thyroid? TSH is not a good indicator if you still have symptoms. Beware of Epstein-Barr Virus. Hytrin (terazozin Sandoz brand generic ONLY) works as vasodilator which helps your hands keep warm and helps pain. Cadista brand is useless. If your pharmacy won’t order you a brand that works contact their district manager and have a talk. Walmart used to be a good pharmacy but now only stocks cheap shit; refusing to stock anything that’s useful.
Did you know law enforcement and pharmacists see brand name meds as having more street value? What does that tell you?
Cat and Mouse thank you for all this. I shall sit down today and comb through it . I had blodd done 2 weeks ago which r all fine so it’s not thyroid. We now know it’s a disc problem. I shall be sitting down over the next few days and doing some serious research. Thank you so much again x I’m sorry about all your troubles too x
Beware of traveling or referred pain. I have chronic regional pain syndrome or what it used to be called, reflex sympathetic dystrophy syndrome.
If you experience a “heat” type pain in one limb but not the other, or one ear goes red and hot while the other does not, or the tremor you speak of…watch for those things.
Learn the triggers.
You will become religious. Imagine having that kind of pain unabated. Like literal hell.
If you get narcotics, you’ll find generics don’t work. They don’t eliminate pain and the minimal effects wear off in 1/2 the time. Use prior authorization once you fail generics to go after brand names.
Also, the cheap generics usually peddled are the worst in quality.
Lots to think about Cat and Mouse. I’m in the UK. I’ll do some reading up on all this! I’m very very picky aleady re: prescription drugs and recently lowered my dangerously high BP myself via diet and exercise alone.
I lover this site so many women from all over just getting together and supporting each other!!
Smear tests have been blamed for a lot but I just read a piece in the Daily Mirror a 61 yr old woman is up in arms the NHS won’t pay £1000 a month for hemp suppositories to help her. She has chronic genital arousal syndrome ( she keeps having orgasms in everyday life when not having sex?) And blames a botched smear test for this. …
Seems the medic just rammed the speculum in as they do and damaged her pudendal nerve. Is there no end to the damage this vile test causes???
I looked up the functions of the pudendal nerve, it’s functions, and what happens when it is damaged. Chronic genital arousal may be one thing, but more common is genital anesthesia (you no longer feel your genitalia), as well as incontinence.
There are other nerves in that general area which are more commonly damaged by such follow-on tests as LEEP or LEETZ. Pelvic, vagus, and hypogastric. These all have various functions, including feeling your feelings, regulating your heart and breathing, immune system function, and inflamation.
No, it seems there is no end to the damage caused by this vile tests.See https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2017.01452/full for more details.
If someone were penetrating you with some sort of sexual toy, and they did it roughly and/or without lube, you would demand they stop. Rarely is someone damaged in this way – even with some extreme BDSM practices. Yet, the medics do this in a rough enough manner, not paying attention to screams or damands to STOP such that these nerves are damaged with some regularity.
Pulling off parts of my cervix, with approximately the same number of nerve endings as are in the end of an intact male penis, and without anesthesia, is an absolute hard no.
Honestly, I really do think doctors and nurses see smears and the ensuing treatment, as either punishing, or holding women accountable, for having sex.
Absolutely. Its like they’re thinking “Go ahead and be a bad girl and have sex, but in exchange you’re going to have to undergo humiliating exams and potentially unnecessary painful and debilitating procedures that will, rather than enhance your health, undermine it.”
I just read this document about the development of Cervical Screening. http://www.histmodbiomed.org/sites/default/files/44868.pdf
Read p.59.
Thanks for this: Professor Archie Cochrane wrote: ‘I remember giving a lecture in Cardiff on screening in 1967 into which I introduced the (as I thought) innocuous phrase “I know of no hard evidence, at present, that cervical smears are effective”. To my surprise I was pilloried in the local Welsh press, who quoted many anonymous colleagues who thought me a “dangerous heretic” and I received many abusive letters, some from colleagues.’ Cochrane (1972): 26–7; see also Bryder (2008); note 44. For a review of screening procedures, see Cochrane and Holland (1971); Wilson et al. (1971); Macgregor and Teper (1974)
This group of people are fanatically pro-screening and still driving the programme today in the UK. Peto was the one who came up with the 5,000 lives saved per year figure which is regularly trotted out on all the NHS adverts. This figure got instant criticism from other European countries at the time as being wildly too high and since then Sasieni has done further research putting that figure at about 1700.
It is quite obvious from reading this that the whole thing was one huge experiment on women, and nobody really knew what they were doing. They started these screening tests with little idea of the cause and development of this cancer and everyone was forced into this experiment. They assumed complete ownership of our bodies. It was all implemented without the slightest heed for informed consent, which sadly they got away with at the time. It is quite clearly stated that all women were to be forced into going, to de-stigmatise the test, as pointing the finger at a few, would mean no-one would attend. It was quite deliberate that real information about the test was to be withheld to prevent women making an informed choice to disassociate themselves from the rest, and they did everything they could to prevent this. They have no morals or regard for human rights.
The comments on page 67, show how they congratulate themselves on terrorising women into attending by getting a TV soap character to die of the disease. They find it amusing that women are terrorised into attending and accept this as normal behaviour in healthcare. Thank goodness some of them are already dead.
Consent itself was viewed as irrelevant for women, coercion was the norm, the consult for the Pill is still used to push, force or mislead women into testing. The AMA and others will continue to lie to keep the Pill on script, if that ever changes, many more women will ditch screening. (and they know it)
It’s interesting that on some topics today, if you don’t have a certain viewpoint, you’re abused…there’s no counter argument, they’re right, you’re wrong…I think one of the first examples of this mob intimidation was cervical screening. Hysteria and moral superiority reigned, it silenced most women who had concerns about screening or who simply wanted more information.
This program represents a huge black cloud, it destroyed the health and well being of countless numbers of women…the powers that be decided to do what they wanted to do with our bodies to promote their own agendas…and they got away with it.
This was never about women’s healthcare…
I think the dysfunctional and sexist/misogynistic attitudes in medicine that framed, promoted and protected this abuse are still in medicine, they no longer hold absolute power but there’s still work to do, to flush them out and challenge them…force change.
There’s no doubt in my mind, our program only changed because more and more women were aware it was outdated, excessive and harmful. So women have forced change…
Elizabeth – I think this programme might have sprung from the beginnings of the sexual revolution, and initiated by pervasive misogyny and paternalism in medicine that militant feminists were quite frankly, too stupid and naive to recognise.
I see it as a way to exercise control. You have your sexual freedom, but there is a price to pay for that. In return for your contraceptive access, you will be expected to have regular exams seeing as you’re “sexually active” now.
Strange enough, many women in medicine – probably affected by internalised misogyny – also seem to have adopted these attitudes, and they still, largely persist.
It’s the same sort of attitudes you see with pregnancy and the focus and emphasis on natural childbirth at all costs, and breastfeeding (even when the mother cannot or is struggling to do so).
Like all these issues, there is an element of “putting women in their place”, and I think that view certainly applies in respect of screening.
I was reading a few articles on the Daily Mail a few days ago. One was on abortion.
Whatever one’s view on it, there were comments from women who had endured traumatic experiences and they were being villified by posters whose usernames regularly feature in the screening articles.
It’s interesting that screening seems to have been turned into a “right-wing” issue, with newer attempts to hijack it by the “empowerment” brigade.
The screening forces want it to be so controversial that you cannot debate the disadvantages of it in public. It’s quite Gestapo-esque.
As you say, there’s still a lot of work to be done to challenge attitudes (including female ones).
I’ve seen newer anti-screening comments that challenge the pro-screeners’ actual knowledge of screening and out them for their lack of understanding. I reckon that’s a great tact as this is how pro-screeners dealt with “defaulters” for years!
Infuriating: https://www.vox.com/2020/1/9/21056899/pap-smear-test-cervical-cancer-hpv-teens
Piece in the BBC News today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51121305
The ignorance continues. Is it surprising she has a name called Mercedes? Sorry, I’m being derogatory lol.
Also two pieces in the Health section of the Daily Mail. NHS Professor claims that the brilliant new primary HPV screening will make cervical cancer extinct (he’s forgotten about adenocarinomas, the fact that the NHS were light years behind in testing for it, and that a self-test could be used).
Another great non-story from Jo’s Tosh. 88% of 25-35 year olds said HPV didn’t make them feel dirty, and 95% of over 55 year olds said it didn’t. This is a news story?
I have finally received confirmation of my Opt-Out from cervical screening using the PCSE form that I sent by email to my GP surgery! Form can be obtained from here:
Click to access smear%20disclaimer.pdf
It replaces the original form CSAS which is what they still direct you to on the PHE site!
Only time will tell if I receive any more but at least I got acknowledgement after the third request in writing. If you want to use it then ensure you email it directly to your GP Surgery, they usually have a general enquiries email address.
Many congratulations on your new life, where you own your own body! Keep us informed how you get on. It would be interesting to know if your surgery is one of those which sends you a 5 yearly reminder of your opt-out status (in other words continuing reminders under another name).
Honestly, I would cross out or put a line through the sentence on the form that says ‘I have read and understood the cervical screening leaflet’. What utter cheek! Patronising women to the extreme. As if the holy leaflet is the only place you should get your information from, sheesh…
They really don’t want us to use our brains, do they? I suppose we’re all meant to be good little women and judiciously read the leaflet as instructed.
Me? I’d make a paper aeroplane out of it!!!
Ozphoenix in my LAST “invitation ” in 2025 just before I opted out it read we have sent you a leaflet cervical screening helping you decide. We advise you read this before coming for the test!! So we were to read it and then decide…to have the test!! Paper aeroplane? Nah. I’d use it to scoop up my cats poo from his tray…
You use it to scoop up cat poop?
Interesting.
We get a local healthcare newsletter. Front page has pap demands (recommendations).
We put it under the litter box to catch cling-ons.
Awwwweeesssooommee!!! We should start a hint-of-the-day to go in these womens newsletters. Best uses for useless pap crap letter stuff!
If you make a paper hat with it and line it with foil, it keeps the aliens at bay. You’ll need two reminder letters if you want to cover your behind against anal probes tho.