How many women won’t go to doctors because of pap test coercion?

Many women are choosing to opt out of pap tests.  Unfortunately, some of these women are not having their choices respected by their health care providers and are experiencing coercion.

A poll published on this site asked women three questions related to pap test coercion.  Since publication hundreds of women have responded to the poll questions and the results reveal some surprising insights into women’s health care experiences.

The first poll question asked women “Have you felt pressured into having a pap test that you did not want?“.  A total of 512 women have responded.  The vast majority of women (457 out of 512 = 89.26%) responded that yes, they had felt pressured into having an unwanted pap test.

The second poll question asked “Has your doctor withheld medications or healthcare when you have said ‘no’ to a pap test?“.  A total of 442 women have responded.  More than half of the women who responded (235 out of 442 = 53.17%) have experienced the withholding of medications or healthcare when they refused a pap test.

The third and final poll question asked “Have you stopped going to doctors because you are worried about being pressured into a pap test?“.  A total of 506 women have responded.  The majority of women (431 out of 506 = 81.62%) responded that yes, they had stopped going to visit doctors because of concern about being pressured into having a pap test.

The responses reveal that many women are experiencing unwanted pressure to have a pap test, that they are having medications and/or healthcare withheld when they refuse a pap test, and that many have stopped visiting doctors altogether because of concern about being coerced into an unwanted pap test.

The poll is still open and can be accessed here: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2014/07/30/how-many-women-go-without-health-care-due-to-pap-test-coercion/  The comments underneath the poll reveal further details about women’s experiences related to pap test coercion.

More on this topic:
https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2016/04/23/pap-tests-are-not-mandatory/
https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2014/01/09/pap-test-coercion-getting-more-attention/
https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2012/10/17/what-some-male-doctors-do-when-women-say-no/
https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2014/05/20/pelvic-exams-done-without-consent/

About forwomenseyesonly

Hi. My name is Sue and I am interested in promoting holistic and respectful health care.
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153 Responses to How many women won’t go to doctors because of pap test coercion?

  1. Linda says:

    Yes i experienced pressure over the years. DR. V implied i wouldn’t be given the pill if i didn’t have them. He and his practice nurse GG carried on this ruse for many years (about 18) until i found out the truth stumbling upon this site.

    Contraceptive pills and cancer screening tests have nothing to do with each other. This has been a scandal of epic proportions.

    The nurse from my cuurent practice also tries it on now and then. I don’t have to worry about the pill anymore as i went through the meno a few years ago. Still the pressure is there.

    The letters the screening authorities send out also imressed upon me the compulsory aspesct. The lead sentence used to read ‘your cervical screening is test is now due’ ‘read the leaflet before booking one’ etc. There was no hint it was up to me. My decision.

    I no longer trust doctors. Finding out the truth just did it for me. I don’t go to pieces during any consult with one these days for anything. I am ready for them. I would be very rude to the point of aggression if they started. I don’t care. In my opinion Dr V and his nurse spent many years basically raping me. From what i now know from my research ALL doctors have colluded in this scandal. ALL are culpable. These rat bags are getting away with it the world over. Particularly in America where they are little more than rapists to their female patients.

    I think women are working these things out for themselves. More are saying ‘stuff that’ i’m not doing it. Especially young women.

    Doctors now know we have worked it out and they must know there are a lot of very angry hot tempered women out there ready to take them on over this.

    Also, a while ago i read a comment on this site qouted from that creep Robert Music. It was to do with why women were not having smears. He said many women suffer from ‘vaginal dryness’ and this might be putting many older women off.

    Now, i don’t know about your boyfriends/ husbands but my hubby certainly, and i’m sure many other men out there, would sooner cut their own tongues out rather than talk about the subject of vaginal dryness. There is just something so wrong with this man.

    This creep should do the decent thing and step down. Can he not see the ludicrousy of a man running an org such as Jo’s trust.

    • Kitten says:

      Yes, they word it so that women who are less informed, less well-educated on their rights or less competent with the English language will believe this is mandatory. Pisses me off. It’s bullying, plain and simple.

      I LOVE this site. So many intelligent, confident, capable women to converse with. Although it’s an unpleasant, infuriating and morally reprehensible subject, I look forward to seeing notifications of ya’ll’s posts in my inbox.

  2. adawells says:

    I couldn’t agree with you more, Linda. He ran Endometriosis UK before taking on Jo’s Trust in 2008. His comments are deeply patronising and offensive. If he’d been a woman, he wouldn’t be so full of contempt for women’s feelings and choices. High time he was got rid of. I don’t see any women heading up campaigns about prostate problems, telling men they are embarrassed about it.
    He is a businessman, whose interest is in stomping up cash. I’ve heard he increased their income by 600%. He is always jetting about the country, appearing in the media with his crass comments, Jo’s are always getting awards or giving them to other organisations at big showy parties and banquets. Always running some campaign or other, which they claim has made a “massive impact”. The medical evidence is that no impact has been made.
    The truth is that less and less women have been having smears in the time of Jo’s existence, and as less people take up the offer the death rate has gone down due to better treatments. The truth is that Jo’s Tosh has had no impact on screening uptake or the disease whatsoever. It’s income just supports it’s own running costs and keeps their party going, so they can all run around in pink panties, patting themselves on the back at banquets and saying they’ve saved lives, when they haven’t. If some poor woman actually gets this cancer, they can use her for publicity purposes to increase their income even more.

    • Kitten says:

      It’s all about the $$$. It’s another example of the men having the control. If you can control a woman’s body you can control her life.

      Endometriosis……a pap test does NOTHING to help with endo, and doesn’t even diagnose it. What a fricking waste.

  3. Judy says:

    This Music clown probably latches himself on to women’s health issues & charities, etc. because he knows men wouldn’t put up with his shit while women are less likely to question it and will think of him as a big hero. Someone should make him lay naked in stirrups with his cash & prizes hanging out and stick a metal thing up his anus, and then tell him not to be embarrassed!

    • Mint says:

      Years ago, when I was in my 20’s, I went to the Brook Advisory service to get the Pill. The male doctor refused to give me the script until I had a smear test. I refused because there was something about the guy that gave me the creeps. He scoffed and asked me if I was afraid to be ” touched”. No you idiot, I was having lots of sex with my then boyfriend and I wanted to avoid pregnancy. My inner alarm bells were set off by this man and I’m very glad I stood up to him. I later visited a Family Planning clinic, where I got the Pill with just a blood pressure check. I have avoided male doctors for anything other than a splinter in my thumb every since.

      When your inner voice tells you something is wrong – listen and take notice.

      • Yes, I used to get the pill from a local GUM clinic as opposed to my GP. Being fairly young, a teenager when I started taking it, it felt like a better and more anonymous way of doing things.

        I went for a ‘pill check’ and I must have been about 19. I was told in no uncertain terms by an overbearing nurse that “if I was old enough to have sex then I was old enough for a smear.” The underlying message being if I didn’t submit, no more pill. Of course being young and naive I did. Now, 25 years later the thought outrages me every time I think about it.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        How can that statement sit with an elective screening test?
        “if I was old enough to have sex then I was old enough for a smear.”
        Just goes to show how a screening test can turn into something so warped, abusive and oppressive…and harmful. It’s not screening, it’s medical abuse. IMO, the product of medical thinking and attitudes at the time, the boy’s club, but it’s taken far too long for these attitudes to change – too many adopted them, instead of challenging them.

      • Absolutely. I decided about 12 years ago I wasn’t having anymore smears. I knew something was ‘off’ with the program and started thinking for myself. I’m so pleased I did.

        The amount of doctors and nurses who are happy to sell it as a compulsory part of getting other care is disgusting.

      • Lika says:

        So, basically, if I choose to have sex with a man that I love, then I must also allow myself to be raped by another man?

      • anon says:

        The right of the first night.

  4. Alice says:

    Sadly, the results of the poll are not surprising. I am one of those numerous women who went through the pressure to have an unwanted, totally useless and harmful pap smear, had medical services withheld because of my refusal, and came to avoiding doctors at all costs ever since.

    Despite opting out of every scare-and-screen campaign and telling the govt to stop misusing my personal information, I still get an occasional “invitation” to some screening bullshit scheme. All goes straight into shredder of course. Australian medicine is only interested in tests and diseases that involve groping boobs, penetrating vaginas or sticking something up the bums. Well, they won’t be doing that to me. I know my risks, live healthy and have my priorities right.

  5. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Well said, Alice – I agree..
    Looks like the My Health Record needs to go back to the drawing board, the old opt out method hasn’t worked this time, I heard that 75% of GPs were going to opt out, say no more…

    • Alice says:

      Oh that My Health Record, it is anything but “mine”… Every, absolutely every person I know opted out of this outrageous mass surveillance system that is being pushed down our throats. And yes, various sources say that the medical profession was the first one to get out of it. The rats know when the ship is sinking.

  6. Alex says:

    How about another questionnaire?

    (1) Would you elect “birth control with no internal exams” if it were presented as an option?

    (2) Would you support a law that criminalized coercive internal exams & banned service incentive payments?

    (3) Would you support a law that mandated patient notification of potential risks & inaccuracy with any form of screening?

    Seriously, if any of you think these would be a good questionnaire to put out there, feel free to use it as is.

  7. katrehman says:

    JUST seen that the UK is lowering the bowel screening poo test age to 50…! So it’ll b a 50th birthday gift now…Ada any thoughts? What do you all think?

  8. katrehman says:

    Also seen that 7 out of 10 docs think patients lie about their alcohol intake and double it what the patient says. We shouldn’t be embarassed to talk to our doc about drinking…they’re non judgemental ect. Sounds like the way they talk to us about screening. ..

    • Lika says:

      The idea that you must have a pap smear because you could be lying about sex annoys me. Why is it so important to get to the truth about a woman’s sex life? Why do they want to know when he kissed you, when he touched your breasts, etc. in full detail? A patient, theoretically, could lie about smoking, diet, drinking, etc. and doctors do not make tests to see if those things are lies.

      I think some of these sick doctors get turned on by women being forced to discuss their entire sex histories.

      • ChasUK says:

        Take a look at this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45894206
        Men took charge in the early days and this is how it was! Paternal crap too!
        Something else to remember is the cervical screening was introduced without an Randomised Controlled Trial….something that is required now for any screening to be introduced and passed through!

      • Kleigh says:

        It annoys me too. Ever notice when I see a doctor for anything they always want a date of your last Pap smear? And if it was abnormal. Firstly who said I ever had a Pap smear before ? And why is it made to seem like I’m expected to have already had one in the past . I don’t like the way woman are expected to allow this with out question? Complete lack of informed convent and logic.

      • Kleigh says:

        There is also this idea that doctors are going to “save” woman’s firtility from those dirty stds they think all woman have. What happened to doctors being for sick people. Also that all woman need to procreate and they want to manage are firtility with birth control. Forcing woman to be tied to those invasive exams. It’s so wrong. I am sorry but these exams are so wrong it’s not normal.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        The way professionals talk to women regarding screening, it is clear that these old ideas about women still pervade wonen’s medicine. The words irrational, hysterical, nervous and emotional are still associated with those who refuse screening.

  9. Kleigh says:

    I feel angry at woman for allowing this to go on and not fighting against it. When ever I come accros woman bragging about smear test paps I get so angry and triggered. I really believe all this whould stop if more woman put there foot down. Most woman are so trusting it’s sick.

    • adawells says:

      You only have to have a look on social media to see how these women or terrorised into going and then giving themselves bravery congratulations after they’ve been and boasting about it. I feel like telling them that that is just the first part, they haven’t had the result yet, and they don’t know the half of what goes on in the gyne’s chair to treat these “abnormalities”. You’re right, it is truly sickening how so many will gladly step onto the conveyor belt of treatments they know nothing about.
      Most women I’ve read about are all insignificant findings from pap smears. Doctor thinks she might have seen something iffy, so that’s another appointment at the hospital outpatients. As Elizabeth says, day care is always full of women waiting to be “saved.”

  10. katrehman says:

    Any ladies with instagram and strong stomachs check out #cervical screen hannah. The owner of the cervicalscreen1 blog. She posts a link to #save the cervix. ..I agree it needs saving…from smears and colposcopy ect…

    • I’ve had a few run ins with her Twitter account… Some of the rubbish and motivational messages are just insane.

    • adawells says:

      I can only glimpse in very small doses. The last time I looked it seemed to be full of hookers out for business.
      I think Hannah and Jo’s set a lot of them up, and tell them to post everywhere about their smear test experience. The women seem to see it as an opportunity for fame and celebrity status, and if they’ve got abnormalities found then they are automatically posting as cancer survivors and their “brush with death story”. They often have a few men following, aroused by the details, but claiming it is because “they care”. The whole business is so sordid. The charities think they’re doing an amazing job, when in fact they are making life very difficult for anyone with a true cancer diagnosis. For these, their campaigns create shame, blame, guilt and a sense of failure.

      • Yes! The latest offering is a young lady (who does rather look like she’s touting for business) who had abnormal cells removed after pushing for a smear under 25 as she had ‘weird’ symptoms. Well for a start, that’s a diagnostic test, not screening. Anyway…

        Apparently she had CIN 2 & 3 and the nurse said she had treatment “just before it progressed to cancer.” Well that’s BS, a nurse couldn’t possibly know that however it’s a great way to join the ‘survivor’ club.

        Yuck.

    • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

      She sounds completely nuts.

  11. Demonhype says:

    Omg, I just heard about this site called 3Hims which helps men–specifically men–obtain medication without the humiliation and bother of physical exams or doctor visits Or at least it sounded like that’s the case on the ad on God Awful Movies. So men can get their dick pills online without palpitations and begging in a doctor’s office, but women need to strip naked and spread ’em for BC, even though every reputable medical org says blood pressure and medical history is more than sufficient? Yet there are no feminists complaining over that, rather, they are trying to figure out how to strip other women of their bodily autonomy and right to choose/refuse healthcare for any reason?

    Want more reason to get mad? The ad is on their recent episode “Voiceless”, in which they seem to applaud pap smear and other gynecological atrocities without question!

    • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

      Modern day feminists are their own worst enemies. Women can’t do this and can’t do that because they are women, and the patriarchy will judge them for that. They’re against self-defence and martial arts classes for women (no, I’m not joking), they think women need protective laws (because as women, we are automatically victims by virtue of our gender), they believe in enforced screening for women (because as women, we must be forced to do things that are for our own good) and stripping naked no matter your shape, stripping naked and sharing your intimate photos for all to see proves that you are a strong and “empowered” woman. It isn’t objectification anymore, it’s “empowering” apparently. Bearing in mind, these are women, actively colluding with the “patriarchy” or working against the very cause that feminism was established to do. Yet, they are all too thick to see it.

  12. katrehman says:

    Demon hype agree with every word you say. Here in the UK you can now buy Hiv self test kits off the shelf in a pharmacy but we still have to source HPV tests online and fight doctors in our appointments and put up with pestering to screen

    • adawells says:

      I heard that HIV kits are available in vending machines in various outlets, but as Kat says, HPV kits are still being witheld from screening in UK. You can order them online, but that fact is kept a secret in all the screening literature.

  13. Emily says:

    Omg yes!! Ive started seeing ads on hulu/YouTube for Getroman-a website where men can go to get ED drugs without “the awkward doctor visit”. Are you f*cking kidding me?!?! Typically the most awkward thing a guy has to do is just admit that his d*ck doesn’t get hard when he wants! And the docs just give it out like freakin candy! They always use the excuse “Oh but women won’t come in for a yearly physical!” Everyone knows that men are even worse about going to the doc but no that’s up to them. And its pretty much a given that ED pills are just as if not more dangerous than BC but nope men can be trusted to answer a questionnaire and assess the risks themselves. Suuuucccchhh bullsh*t! Whew ok rant over. Thanks for hearing me out 🙂

  14. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Emily,
    It was readily accepted that the DRE was unacceptable to men, and an alternative test would have to be offered…the PSA test appeared…neither test is now recommended hete.
    There were no target payments for GPs to force men to test, it was never made a “requirement” for something men need i.e. coercion…no name calling, “you silly man”…
    No, that was all fine to force women into screening, absolutely unacceptable for men.
    It says a lot about medical attitudes…

  15. katrehman says:

    Elizabeth you’re right and even worse is mens attitudes. Whenever female cancer screening hits the news especially the daily fail men are up in arms they don’t count or get screening. I lost count of the times I pointed out they get AAA screening plus their prostate test isn’t accurate

  16. katrehman says:

    I also point out that the blood test WAS developed for them whereas we have to have our organs shredded or bombarded with radiation. ..sigh.

  17. Pissed Off Patient says:

    Have parents noticed that doctors now want to check “Down there” at every child’s visit or yearly checkup? It isn’t necessary, and the kids are often upset about it. My godchildren’s mother says the doc told her it was, in part, to get the kids accustomed to being examined so they won’t have “hangups about it” (his words) when they get older. He also recommends that girls be scheduled for a visit with a gyn doc at thirteen, even if they aren’t in puberty yet. This involves seeing the girls WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS “so they can feel comfortable asking questions!

    Parents need to learn to say no to this, and teach their daughters to do the same. Does the name “Larry Nasser” ring any bells?

    • adawells says:

      I find this whole business very sordid. This is basically grooming by another name. If you really have a problem down there, and are in pain or giving birth, you don’t need to be prepared or “got use” to someone to look down there. It’s a very bad way of looking at things. If you need to have a doctor look it should be part of the doctor’s training to make you feel at ease, be sympathetic and respectful at all times. Women should never have to “get used” to being treated like turkeys at a meat processing plant.

    • linda says:

      The doctors who do this are perverts. Plain and simple. There is no need to check children in this way. There is no need to get used to examinations of this nature.

      Hopefully more women are realising they’ve been conned by American doctors. Mothers need to protect their kids both boys and girls from these predators. If a doctor suggested to me he wanted to intimately inspect my child i would spit on him. Then report him to the police.

      Its about time women started being more aggressive with doctors, not just be compliant and fall apart the minute one suggests you undress.

      • Kleigh says:

        Not only all the above that has been stated but what about these guns pushing little girls to get IUDs and birth control behind the parents back. Iuds can be dangerous and they are marketing them to teens now. If I found out some sob inserted one in my child . I whould go berserk. Not to mention my children will be taught no means no even at the doctors. If the mom isn’t there to advocate for the girl they could take advantage of that.

    • Lika says:

      Creepy!

      He is basically trying to have their hymens busted as early as possible so that they willa already feel violated and will allow anyone to penetrate them whenever since they have nothing to save anymore.

  18. katrehman says:

    On our local news woman waiting 11 weeks for smear results. The NHS has let her down she’s having sleepless nights as she’s also had breast cancer. Of course official advice is to attend when invited. Programme offered link to jos tosh

    • adawells says:

      Kat, Jo’s Tosh announced that they’re really worried that the long delays in results might give women the impression that smear tests may not be that essential after all, and Music is afraid they’ll lose faith in the programme. Ha! That’s all they’re afraid about – their jobs and the programme. I saw another report saying that women shouldn’t worry as it takes at least 10 years for the cancer to develop. The truth is slowly coming out.
      I’m just wondering how the new series on Jade Goody is coming on? I think they’re going to make a series about her to show on TV next spring. I hope it’s a comedy.

      • katrehman says:

        Smear tests not important and this cancer taking years to develop. ..of indeed it does at all…the writing is on the wall for their beloved programme. ….!

  19. Anna says:

    The medical field is nothing but rape. And we are all broken because of it.

    • linda says:

      Hi Anna I totally agree. In parts of the world smears and pelvic exams are compulsory. India and china in particular. Where are the doctors here crying out against for the right to choose? Why aren’t doctors all over the web demanding women’s rights to decide what happens to their body? Nothing. Complete silence. They just go along with it. This situation with doctors is global. I think if every woman in the world was forced to have smears the medical profession would just go along with it without a peep.

      Something as invasive as a smear and pelvic should always be the woman’s decision.

      Shame on the medical profession.

    • adawells says:

      I’ve joined a few facebook groups, and I’m just staggered at what other women are putting themselves through. A lot are posting about repeat hospital visits for further investigations, often very painful, without anaesthetic (you can be sent straight home afterwards, so it’s cheaper for them). Seeing as many don’t have any symptoms at all, I wondered what drove these women to end up on this merry-go-round – it’s the smear test, of course. It’s not just colposcopies but also hysteroscopies, which is the “knitting needle job”. Women are sent for these, if nurse thinks might have seen a polyp or some such thing with the smear test. Testing of the sample would rule out HPV, so cannot mean cervical cancer, womb cancer would have had symptoms, and I don’t see there’s a link between a suspected polyp and ovarian cancer in a symptomless woman.
      The smear test keeps women on the gyne investigations merry-go-round for no reason at all. They are not happy people and live in fear of their own bodies, but if you say anything they immediately hit back that it’s better than cancer. It’s very sad that women’s lives revolve around this.

      • Lika says:

        Exactly. I think if most women knew the truth about hpv, they’d rather live a life free of worry and being intimate with the man that they chose instead of the doctor and then die of cervical cancer at the age of 90 with their sense of bodily autonomy intact.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        No anaesthetic? So much for the smear being “quick and painless”. They’re not telling you what will happen when you get your abnormal result!

  20. I don’t know how many of you guys are on Facebook but I was looking at the page for https://www.nurx.com/, a service that allows you to get birth control without visiting a doctor – at last!

    Some women are thrilled, no more invasive tests and unnecessary expense but so many are just brain washed into thinking they’ll die without a smear test and a pelvic exam every year. Mind blowing…

    • Lika says:

      I saw this as well and it bugs me that the brainwashed women are trying to fool virgins into thinking that they need a pap.

      I guess misery loves company.

  21. Allison says:

    Ladies, and Alex, could you please help me out? Since August 10th, I been walking around near deaf in my right ear with pain and a popping sensation. I’m also really dizzy most of the time. I got some ear drops from the pharmacy, hoping that would help; It’s doing nothing except maybe making my ear feel worse! I’m a 26 year old American, and with the exception of an ER trip in 2014 when a stranger’s dog bit up my arm -even when I went in then, I was very defensive-, I been avoiding doctors like the plague since I turned 21. My ear is bothering me to the point that even showering and cooking dinner is really taxing on me. I’m a virgin, and since I want my future partner to be the first person to see and touch me down there, want my future partner to be the first fingers in me, I’m afraid that if I see a doctor for my ear, they’ll start harassing me about pap rape/pelvic exams. Any suggestions?

    • Garlic can help ear infections but you must be very, very careful you don’t get it lost of stuck in your ear. It happens so take care!

    • linda says:

      Hi Allison. Try to treat your ear infection yourself with coconut oil. However, there will be times in all our lives when a trip to the docs is advisable. If he or she tries it on – stand firm. You don’t have to explain you are saving yourself – its non of their business. Just say you don’t want one.

      x

    • Judy says:

      Hi Allison
      There are a lot of urgent care type of places springing up – maybe see if one is near you? They generally just want to treat your main complaint and get you in and out fast. But unfortunately, being a woman, there’s always the possibility of pressure or harassment in any medical setting, so like Linda said, stand firm. It’s your body and you have the final say in whether or not to have any test or procedure.

    • ChasUK says:

      Hi Allison, firstly check out our NHS website for more information https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ear-infections/
      You may require antibiotics? Or it may clear up on it’s own, remember the human body is amazing and can fix problems all by itself. It may just be a wax build up? It depends if it is an inner or an outer ear infection? I have personally used ear candles, they are cones which you put in your ear with the other end alight & had no pain, see here https://www.verywellhealth.com/ear-candling-88287
      If of course you do visit the GP then as others have said “Stand Firm” and state you are here for one thing only and expect assistance with that and nothing else. The private parts of your body are precisely that….Private! You do not need to provide any excuses, it is simply your body and your rules, just say that screening is not open for discussion over and over until they shut it. This seems to have worked for me on my last GP visit 5 years ago, albeit a while but I avoid doctors like the plague unless absolutely necessary, and no-one forces me to do anything I do not wish to do, important lessons I have learnt. You are in charge always. Good luck and take care.

    • Demonhype says:

      When I was a kid I had a lot of headaches and ear infections. The doctor told my mom to give me an asprin and have me lay on my side, with my bad ear over a hot water bottle. Always worked to clear the pain. Started getting the odd earache again a year or so ago, I suspect from the wacky rapid weather changes where I live, and I pulled this old chestnut out, and it worked just like before. Obviously, I had baby aspirin as a kid, and I use mostly Advil now, just for reference.

      • Demonhype says:

        Fyi, he was a good doctor too. Asian guy, and humble, no arrogance, worked with my mother to make decisions on healthcare. Wanted to give me ear tubes, but my mom read up on it all and decided the benefits weren’t worth the risks of surgery, since the earaches weren’t threatening to make me dead and would likely clear up as I got older, so it wasn’t worth the risk of surgery and some of the failures the operation had produced. He also wanted to put me on steriods, but m y mom out her foot down on that too. He wasn’t happy, wasn’t in agreement, but worked with my mom readily to explore more acceptable options and never tried to make her feel stupid or like a bad mom for not unquestioningly embracing whatever he ordered her to do.

  22. katrehman says:

    Hmm. ..you could try warm olive oil dripped gently in the ear. You could also print off some information that paps and pelvic aren’t necessary in virgins…..no risk of hpv ect to take with you if you go to the doctor. Be brave and say no if the topic comes up…..a pap won’t unblock your ear! Would you feel comfortable or is it possible taking good a friend in with you for backup?

    • adawells says:

      Kat, I’ve just spotted that GP surgeries in north London are going to offer HPV self testing, but can’t find any links to post here. Uptake is so low they are trying it out.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        Fantastic! The smear take-up in London (particularly the affluent areas) are in mortal decline – just over half are testing apparently! I’ve posted a link to the article in the comment at the very end of this page. As well as that gem of info, take a look at what they say about “abnormalities”; “220,000 women are DIAGNOSED with abnormalities”. This insinuates that an “abnormality” (completely harmless in around 95% of cases) are dangerous!! The NHS seems to be reverting to the old Gestapo style of haranguing women knowing that this screening tool is hanging on by a thread. They need to be VERY careful of going down this road. We live in a different age now with information available at our fingertips. We are living in the MeToo# era where women are supposedly more educated and emboldened than ever with a great deal of focus on bodily integrity and rights. This test doesn’t sit with any of that at all. Time for this programme to be put out of its misery or at least revert to primary self-testing HPV kits for the over 30s.

  23. katrehman says:

    Yayyyy! Step in the right direction! I wonder if many will accept the offer…

  24. linda says:

    Hi All

    I don’t know if any of you are following the pap smear scandal that is causing huge outrage in Ireland.

    Apparently there was an audit of smear results done in that country recently. Slides get sent to a clinic in Texas America for checking (to save money) but for some unknown reason CervicaCheck which is the Irish screening authority decided to recheck the results using an Irish cytology clinic. Anomalies were found on some of the slides after the check, which had previously been ok’d as clear. 108 women were effected in all. They have since gone on to develop cervical cancer. Some have since died of the disease.

    The scandal was that instead of informing the women of the disaster right from the outset of the discovery, CervicalCheck told doctors not to tell those affected they had cervical cancer. To keep their patients ignorant of the fact mistakes had been made. So the women involved are seriously ill and only now being treated after a leaked memo was sneaked to the Irish Times.

    The aim of not telling the women was done to keep the programme from criticism and to keep women coming in for their smear tests. Anything to keep the programme running smoothly no matter who it hurts.

    You can follow this unfolding horror story on the internet as there are now loads of articles about it

    • Hi Linda,
      Your post highlights the fallibility of screening. There can also be errors in the opposite direction. For instance, in a case from Linz, many women were diagnosed with cervical cancer following Pap smears but were never told about it. The results were being covered up by a medical assistant who didn’t have the heart to tell the women. Ten years later the results were discovered and the women brought back in for follow-up testing. Interestingly:
      “The astonishing result of the medical report: there was no damage found in any of those concerned due to the delay of treatment. On the contrary, most precancerous lesions had disappeared at the follow-up. In only six cases had a cone biopsy, which is the precautionary removal of the suspect tissue piece to be made. But this would have happened with more women, if this had been addressed immediately. There was even a specific acute cancer that had dissolved into thin air.”

      Read more: http://womenagainststirrups.proboards.com/thread/139/more-pap-screening-leads-deaths#ixzz5Pg0gx2Cr

  25. linda says:

    Thanks Sue that is an amazing article you referred to. Lets hope the Irish women are all ok. So far there is no news on that x

    • adawells says:

      Hi Linda and Sue,
      I have been following the story online. I noticed that there is hardly any news about this in the UK. They are clearly keen to stop a lack of confidence in the screening programme crossing the Irish Sea. It will be very interesting to see how this pans out. I feel very sorry for Vicky Phelan. Some people are blaming her for putting the Irish screening programme at risk for winning her case and getting so much money. The blind obsession with maintaining the screening whitewash is utter madness and cruelty.

  26. katrehman says:

    Just seen over on cervical health hannah instagram page September is gynaecology cancer awareness month. I’m now going to be sick…

  27. adawells says:

    https://blogs.kcl.ac.uk/cancerprevention/2018/08/29/cervical-screening-programme-change-in-wales-what-has-cervical-screening-wales-done-about-it/

    HPV screening now starting in Wales. It is true what Elizabeth said a while ago that it will lead to many more non-vaccinated women being referred to colposcopy – 80% increase until 2020 when vaccinated cohort becomes 25 and enters the screening programme. This is going to hit these women turning 25 in 2018-20 very hard. Thank goodness only about 65% of them are taking up the first screen. Also mention of spacing out the screens in future, but I bet they wait for the whole of the UK countries to be fully into HPV testing before they make a change. This transition period is a dangerous time to be a 25 year old.

    • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

      It could so easily be avoided by offering (not that they ever “offer” anything) the first HPV test at age 30 – just follow the long standing evidence, why is that so difficult in most countries? Because too many are making too much $$$ from screening the wrong way and all the excess that occurs as a result. We’ve thrown our poor young women under the bus AGAIN

  28. Bridgid Then says:

    Here’s one: I went to a female psychiatrist for a 15 minute med check. She didn’t want to know how I felt on my SSRI. She wanted to lecture me about mammograms and Pap tests. Not a word about my mental or emotional stability, and the depression for which I’m being treated. Just a 30 minute lecture on tests and of course the fact that I needed to drop my 20 extra pounds yesterday.

    No matter the doctor, you can find out you’re nothing but a reproductive system, breasts, and an unattractive collection of fat.

  29. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/12/hancock-attacks-nhs-block-progress-says-patients-should-able/

    I don’t know if you have seen this but basically the NHS have blocked the expansion of speaking to a GP via Skype because they’re worried they won’t be able to send people invitations for screening!!!!

    Screw easy access to a GP, our main priority is harassing you with unwanted invitations!!

    Jesse wept…

  30. You can request a repeat script online for all sorts of things, the clinic I use charges $25 for the service but I notice it’s unavailable for the Pill. I assume that’s because they feel they must mention hpv testing to women and that’s likely to be more successful if women are in the consult room. (And that probably comes from the RACGP and the AMA)
    I imagine too they might be worried about legal liability if women can get scripts without the talk but given the change to 5 yearly testing, why not offer online repeat requests?
    I think the need to control women is still very strong, my GP understands i’ve made informed decisions about screening, it’s never mentioned apart from general discussion, my GP asked me what I thought of the new program. I told her…still excessive, ignores long standing evidence by testing before 30 and IMO, it’s unacceptable to block easy access to hpv self testing, also, they should permit women to buy the Delphi Screener online, that was stopped a couple of months before the new program commenced.
    Of course, i’m sure other women are probably treated differently, although I know the 3 GPs I use, would be respectful and would never pressure or coerce, they probably mention that hpv tests are recommended though, time wouldn’t permit a discussion of the pros and cons. I know my GP always had concerns about testing very young women and inevitably sending lots off for colposcopy…she also felt 2 yearly was too often and causing too many false positives, but departing from the program can leave a GP exposed…especially when the AMA were still pushing the excessive program. I think that risk was perceived as real because it was clear women couldn’t really make an informed decision when all real information was suppressed in favour of hype and the screening story. The Pap test and breast screening brochures are no longer in the waiting room, the Pap test brochure disappeared many years ago. I lodged a complaint, I was delighted to hear they received quite a few complaints about the breast screening brochure, incredible though that cervical screening still largely escapes scrutiny.

  31. katrehman says:

    Off topic again but just seen Daniella Westbrook the actress who played Sam Michelle in Eastenders has been diagnosed with womb cancer at I think 46. I’m wondering if another rush of awareness campaigns will hit the press….

    • That’s a shame for her however I cynically agree with you, it’ll be another excuse to push awareness around female cancers in general.

      • Kate (UK) says:

        Just read in my daily rag about her, and of course, she hadn’t had a smear for years and believes she would have been diagnosed sooner if she had… so yep, brace yourself for yet more ‘smears save lives’ crap. It seems that we’re going to be buried under a ton of cervical screening ‘awareness’ very shortly.

    • adawells says:

      OMG that’s insufferable, Kat. It was deeply upsetting and insulting to be asked about my “missed” smear tests when I went for my first gyne appointment for womb cancer, but I did feel a smug sense of achievement at the second appointment that they had been looking for them and still couldn’t find them. Ha ha ha! I only wished I’d had the nerve to say that they must be there somewhere, but when faced with such a diagnosis, wit and nerve disappear instantly. It made me very angry to be made to feel that I had “failed” and then to get a cancer diagnosis later, it was all the worse because of how they made me feel. The tabloids are going to make Westbrook the new Jade, and use her for promoting smear tests, I bet.

  32. They try to sell Pap tests as a screening test for uterine cancer but the fact is almost all women are symptomatic when they’re diagnosed and by the time a Pap test picked it up, you’d probably be having symptoms like abnormal bleeding anyway.
    Yet the qualification is rarely made…Pap testing is not a screening test for uterine cancer.
    I thought the industry might try to keep Pap testing alive by moving the emphasis to ovarian and uterine cancer…so far that hasn’t happened here. If the Pap test was helpful for early diagnosis of uterine and ovarian cancer, they’d be more noise about scrapping them in favour of hpv testing.

  33. adawells says:

    https://surveys.virgincare.co.uk/s/CervicalScreening2018/

    Just as I thought. Private healthcare just waiting in the wings to run UK screening programmes, but the low attendance really needs sorting out first…hmmmm?

  34. katrehman says:

    Typical private health care or even any health care for women….What’s in it for is? How much money to be made from each body? Same old same old…Ada I’m really sorry. The media don’t think reporting stories like Ms Westbrook who else they hurt…and she was Jade’s good friend too…blergh

  35. katrehman says:

    Ada I clicked on the survey pretended I lived in one of the areas didn’t leave contact details but under the my experience of screening I gave them a rant and a good few salient facts about smears lol. …evil Kat!😼

  36. ChasUK says:

    LOL Me too, couldn’t resist a good old rant with a few facts!

  37. Doing it now as well!!

  38. katrehman says:

    Ladies you’re all stars.!! Hi Kathleen welcome to this brilliant site…do we all think our comments will trigger another study about removing barriers to screening and how to make the silly women engage with it??? I’d love to know their reaction to us all x

  39. Mint says:

    Survey completed.

  40. katrehman says:

    Can you imagine them scratching their heads wondering why we don’t want this life saving test?? Maybe they’ll decide there’s no money 2 be made and pull out…

    • adawells says:

      Let’s hope so Kat. I kind of think that the private healthcare groups like Virgin are watching the screening programmes very closely to see if public opinion is turning against them.

    • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

      It seems to me that public health bodies like the NHS might be looking for ways to slowly offload this programme. It must be costing a fortune to “treat” all those CIN 2 and 3 “diagnoses” in the current era of austerity.
      I’m not sure about private healthcare taking over but where the NHS is primarily concerned with controlling and monitoring women’s bodies, Virgin will put profits first. Might be in the long term, they could be the lesser of two evils and at least consider primary self-HPV testing. Let’s hope so.

  41. adawells says:

    On another note, there used to be a very good website from Medical News Today called something along the lines of “Painful process causes low uptake of smear tests”. It seems to have been taken down. There were many complaints on here of bad experiences. It’s my guess the NHS has had a hand in this.

  42. Whinoa says:

    I just wanted to preface this by saying thank you to everyone who has commented on these blogs. They have given me strength when I too was being pressured by the women in my life as well as my doctor to have a smear. I recently turned 22 and a virgin (for religious reasons it will remain that way til I meet “the one.”) and I am so sick of being made out to be some problematic, wild child for being against this test. As someone who’s college degree centers around understanding rhetoric and persuasion, I KNOW when someone is trying to use coercive language to get me to do things that are not within my boundaries. Some of my female relatives have tried to use my father, grandfather, and other family member’s run ins with cancer as proof that I must let someone violate me, even though their cancer was caused by their jobs. But seriously, to all of those who have shared their stories, from the bottom of my heart, thank you! I’m serious, I don’t know what I would have done if I didn’t know there were other women (and men) who also felt the same way as me. Just know your words have helped some young ladies who needed support, even if it was a simple post.

    • Kleigh says:

      I’m 34, that’s why I only go to walk-in clinics. They don’t seem to push screenings.

    • Lika says:

      Exactly.

      I am a complete virgin at 35. Nothing has been in there at all. I am sick of doctors trying to convince me that I’m lying or that I had sex and somehow forgot that I did so, etc. It’s ridiculous.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        I have found that the best way to get them to accept and take no for an answer is to avoid getting into a discussion with them about it.
        As women, I feel it is inherently embedded in the nature of most of us to justify or explain our reasons for any declaration that meets with even a modicum of judgement.

        Whenever asked (it has happened twice to me), I’ll say: “I’ve made an informed discussion”.

        One doctor completely accepted it and stopped there. Another tried to push further saying, “they’re better than they were”. When I stared at him in silence, he then said, “we cannot force the issue”. I was livid (particularly as he had never asked me before. He was with a medical student which might have been why he asked me).

        If they start to press, I’d recommend saying, “I don’t want to discuss the matter further”, or “I feel that there is nothing further to discuss. Please can you respect my decision”.

        It is very hard. I avoided doctors, but for essential complaints throughout my twenties. Now I’m in my thirties, I have no reservations about saying no. If they want to take me on, I’ll give them a fight lol.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        EDIT: I meant “informed decision”, not an informed discussion lol. Sorry to confuse!

  43. Kleigh says:

    I’m noticing more woman speaking out about this. A woman blogger recently wrote about “being forced into a pelvic exam as a rape victim. Finally more woman are peaking out. It’s definitely worth a read. I haven’t posted in a while because this subject just gets me so heated. Glad to see more woman on this form as well.

  44. Lika says:

    For a little while, I had a doctor who respected my beliefs, but since finding out that I’m a virgin, he has been pressing hard.

  45. ChasUK says:

    You cannot take the man out of the doctor!
    Please read everything on this site, it will give you comfort and hope.

  46. Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

    There seems to have been quite a drive of late to increase smear take-up.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45593583

    The authorities are complaining that take-up is at an all-time low of 72%. Won’t be long therefore before the “programme” falls below the threshold required to sustain its survival.

    Have a look at the graph in the article. It makes for very interesting reading.

    Take-up is actually far LOWER in the wealthiest areas of London – Chelsea, Hammersmith, Westminster and Fulham.
    The higher take-up rates are in areas such as Luton!

    Nothing is being made of this in the article (surprise surprise) despite the fact that this does not marry up with the image of the average non-attendee as poor, on benefits, ignorant, uneducated, lazy (and probably promiscuous). Well, well.

    What I find worrying is Jo’s Trust’s call for “urgent action”. Music’s calls consist of weekend and evening tests, drop-in clinics and opportunistic screening. Yeah, good luck trying that one with the highly educated and affluent women of Chelsea and Kensington.

    It’s also no coincidence that this lady has just documented her first screening appointment. Rather convenient that it has emerged just as the bullying campaign has started going into overdrive again.
    I winder how much is this madam being paid to promote screening?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46172802

  47. Samia says:

    I’m a long time lurker around here so please accept my thanks for such a brilliant and informative site.

    I work in the NHS and today have undergone yet another Information Governance training, specifically relating to new information surrounding the GDPR. I enquired at the end of the session, using AAA screening as an example as to whether a patient could deny consent for their information to be processed for the purposes of health screening; the answer is yes. If we do not give express consent for our data to be processed in that way, then the practice is in breach of Information Governance and can thus be reported and punished accordingly.

    • adawells says:

      Very useful information. Thank you. The screening programmes are very much operating on very thin ice. They might have got away with this way of operating in the 1990’s, but the laws have changed very much since then, and our screening programmes are on the wrong side of what is legal.
      The trouble is most women don’t even question this so they get away with it. Did you see the furore earlier this year, when the new screening summons letters included a sentence that it is your choice whether to take up the offer of screening?
      A group tried to get this changed, and got MP Paula Sheriff to ask in Parliament that this should be removed and that women should not be allowed to know this. It’s apalling that women are prepared to go to such lengths to prevent women from knowing and exercising their own legal rights.

    • ChasUK says:

      Hi Samia, regarding the health screening denied consent information – where can I find this in black and white, are you able to provide us with a link please? Would be really helpful to see this. Many thanks

      • Samia says:

        Hi Chas,

        I didn’t get anything written, however, if pushed then we can ask to speak to the Accountability Officer (top of the IG food chain) for their organisation as we feel that our personal data is being processed contrary to GDPR regulations.

    • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

      I wonder how a Practice Nurse would react when given that response in order to question information-processing for screening.
      Many thanks for this information. Ada is right. The programme still tries to operate in the same way as it did during the eighties and is close to the wire. I’d have no qualms reporting a GP who was applying pressure tactics and it could make them re-consider trying the same tactic with other patients.
      They changed the wording to include the word “choice” because the cat was out of the bag and they needed to cover themselves to ensure they were within the appropriate legal framework. It was a very telling move that suggested they were aware that more women were exercising informed choice, and would spread the word. Nothing to do with embarrassed or low-income women etc.

  48. UK smear uptake at an all time low and Robert Music is beside himself: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6435497/Record-FIVE-MILLION-British-women-overdue-life-saving-smear-tests.html

    I’m going to be commenting but not sure if I’ll get past the moderator.

  49. katrehman says:

    Caroline I commented too but as all the other comments are pro smear I fear your right and they won’t print….

  50. Rose Dalstenne says:

    I put a comment up in reply and was let though, I was amazed that a couple of posters actually thaught that these invasive tests shopuld be made compulsary. They are the daft ones for drinking the koolaid.

  51. katrehman says:

    Rose I saw your comment and mine went up too….couple other anti smear comments as well as ours…

    • linda says:

      Many of the comments are very pro screening. One even states ‘just get it done.’

      These are people who would rob us of ‘informed dissent.’

      In the past, the NHS cervical screening Programme undertook draconian measures against women. Intimating to each of us we had no choice – that it was just one of those things – even threatening to withhold the pill and possibly other medications – ‘i cant be your doctor any longer’ etc etc… Those were terrible years. There must never be a repeat of this terrible injustice to women. It was criminal. Now they cant get away from the prickly subject of ‘informed consent. ‘

      When i look at the comments i just get so angry. This kind of mentality allowed the NHS to get away with raping me – as well as untold numbers of other women….

      They would still be raping me today if it wasn’t for this site and the wonderful gang who congregate here.

      When i think of you lot i just feel happy knowing we are saving one woman after another. Providing them with a voice to refuse.

      I’m so glad numbers of women getting screened are in freefall.

      Never give up – the work is so important.

      • Elizabeth (Aust) says:

        It’s brainwashing, conditioning, imprinting, that’s the effect of propaganda and an oppressive campaign. This program HAD to achieve high uptake, and the only way to do that was to basically force women into testing.
        I didn’t think change would happen in my lifetime, so pleased it has….nothing happened for decades.
        Men are given a choice, women are still being given orders but the program and doctors have to be far more careful these days…because too many of us now know the truth, know the evidence.
        The women who say, “get it done”…”how could you be embarrassed, you’ve had a baby” etc. all of that has come from the program, from doctors/nurses etc. – sadly, many women still believe screening is a must and they have a right to judge those who choose not to screen.
        After so many years of propaganda, some may never see that screening is nothing more than an option. These women are probably silent or have much less venom when it comes to bowel screening compliance – that cancer takes far more lives…but the brainwashing and oppressive campaign didn’t happen for bowel screening.
        I usually find the most aggressive pro-screeners have either been “saved” by the program, (“think” they were saved…that’s rarely the case) or have just accepted the screening “story”. .I think some also resent women who choose not to screen, they go through it, so why shouldn’t you? Others feel morally superior or more mature because they screen, again, messages from the program.
        It shows you the power of propaganda and an oppressive campaign, that had zero respect for women and their legal rights.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        I don’t know what it is that makes these women so vitriolic against those who don’t screen.
        I suspect the mindset may be related to attitudes concerning perceived female roles and “duties”.

        In the UK for example, you’ll see some very heated debates about pregnancy, natural childbirth and breastfeeding. In the Daily Fail, there’ll be some nasty discussions about “working mothers”.

        Most of the time, it’s older, conservative men and other women doing the chastising (no one else could care less what other people think of their lifestyle choices and are too busy to argue about it anyway).

        I might be wrong but I feel that the attitude towards non-screeners falls within the same line of thinking.

        It is almost as if these other women feel we are neglecting our duties as women. Maybe they think we “owe” it to our families and that we’re not supposed to fall from the herd, as you’re supposed to do as you’re told. Very strange.

      • Kitten says:

        I don’t think you are wrong at all. It’s all about control and making money. One of my friends didn’t want a pap when she went for her prenatal appt because she had already had one six months prior. They told her it was “mandatory.” One nurse even hinted it was child abuse and negligence if she refused that crap, and CPS “had been known to get involved” when mothers “refused medical procedures necessary for fetal health!” She got the same run-around when she asked why she needed another pap at the post-natal visit. Her cervix was NOT going to suddenly test positive for cancer after nine months!
        Same thing when she objected to the constant vag exams during labor. That is LYING, MANIPULATING, FEAR MONGERING and outright abuse to the woman!

      • katrehman says:

        Linda I think your amazing and will NEVER forget the day you found me on another site and directed me here so a big thank you! Ro u and Sue who runs this site and all u other ladies out there 4 your input support and being there. Your amazing x

  52. Rose Dalstenne says:

    The “Daily Fail” page on facebook had this up and I popped a post up as one really stupid woman stated that these tests should be performed on girls as soon as they start thier periods. I just put in that anything before 25 is unreliable and throws up false positives. and I chose not to screen as I will chance less than 1% getting CC. apparently I am very naive. This young lady in fact works in a medical centre and looks like one of those fish pout models who knows everything and everyone else knows nothing. Elizabeth You are absolutly right zero respect for women and our legal rights.

    • Kate (UK) says:

      Rose, there’s no point trying to reason with these people – this girl sounds too stupid for words, and she’s certainly no ‘lady’ with that attitude. There’s got to be something wrong with someone who thinks 13 year old should be having intimate exams purely because they’ve hit puberty. Aside from the medical damage this would cause, the emotional damage would be staggering. There are grown women who feel violated during intimate exams, I dread to think what damage we’d do if we routinely forced young girls into this.
      If she does indeed work in a medical centre, then they’ve probably put her on reception to make the place look pretty, because she sure as hell hasn’t been hired for her intellect – the girl’s a freaking moron. She’s lucky she got a polite response, I would have been savage!

    • Kleigh says:

      I got my period at 11 years old. Had I been giving a Pap smear then I whould have been traumatized and put in a mental hospital. Do these people realize the mental teams they could do to a young child and some get the periods as young as nine. Why isn’t people’s mental health taken into consideration with these exams I am more that just a cervix.

  53. Elizabeth (Aust) says:

    Rose, testing before 30 does not help, the rare cases still happen and testing produces a lot of over-treatment and excess colposcopies and biopsies. The Dutch and Finns worked that out decades ago, going back to the 1970s. Also, the very rare case before 30 is often a false negative case…these early cases are usually adenocarcinoma of the cervix, this type of cc is usually missed by pap testing.
    Yet they continue to lie to young women.

    The Govt here has just approved a home self test for hiv but women have to jump through hoops to get hpv self testing, and it can only be used in the doctor’s office.

    There’s no doubt in my mind this is to protect all the consult fees and they don’t want to lose control of the herd…same reason they’re fighting to keep the pill on script…consult fees, over-servicing, maintaining control and using the consult to push or require screening. It’s all about using women for the benefit of vested interests. Yet they have the audacity to claim they care about the abuse of women and disrespectful attitudes…what a joke!
    Actions speak louder than words…

  54. Kiwicelt says:

    https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4823
    Looks like self tests, if introduced, will be used to coerece women into screening programmes.

    • Kate (UK) says:

      You know, I’d still rather buy a self-testing kit online rather than use something provided by the state. With all the targets and incentives, It wouldn’t surprise me at all if I were wrongly diagnosed in order for the people employed in the system to meet their quota.
      These programmes have been of little benefit to the patients, why should I believe anything’s changed now? There must be lots of women who despise this procedure, but have been frightened into enduring it. What about offering them a more comfortable alternative?
      No, it’s all about rounding up the strayed sheep.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        Same here. Moreover, I don’t want my HPV testing history anywhere near their database.

    • Kiwicelt says:

      Apocalyptic Queen your comments on the Daily Mail article are gold!

      • ChasUK says:

        Aren’t they just – brilliant! I’m under the name CDNUK, some are getting through and some are not.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        Ah, thanks Kiwi! 😉 After I saw one of your comments posted online about the false negative rate, I researched it for myself and thought I’d include it. Hope you didn’t mind!

        I was concerned that I had “pushed the boat out” a bit too hard but I’m used to taking all these women on lol. If Jo’s Tosh has a hit list out there somewhere, you can guarantee that my username would be on there! 😂

      • Kiwicelt says:

        And Katrehman and Chas. Amazing ladies!!

      • Kiwicelt says:

        Apocalyptic Queen your inclusion of the NZ info made my day. It would be fabulous if some of the numbnuts organising our archaic screening programme saw those comments. We are years behind the UK! I happened to meet two Maori ladies the other week and they told me that they get chased down to have smear tests. If they agree to have one they go in the draw to win a $100 grocery voucher. I was disgusted and told them a few facts!
        I was in Palmerston North a few weeks ago and saw a car go past covered in stuff encouraging women to screen. “Save a life” and other such crap. They have a budget here to ferry women to smear tests and they are free for “priority groups”, Maori, Pacific and Asian women just don’t want smear tests!! They can no longer hit the 80% target even in the European NZ group. Shame! They have been researching self HPV testing for these ” hard to reach” women.

      • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

        Yep – Thank you Chas, Kat and Kiwi. All great comments and far more diplomatic than I could ever be! 😃

  55. katrehman says:

    Aq I second kiwi! And I don’t wan them having details of my vagina either though after 18 years I doubt they have much. They have date of my last perid as I’m reluctantly taking clonidine for night sweat. ..

    • ChasUK says:

      Same here, I don’t want that info stored on their database. You know they note down all sorts about your veejay…size/shape/moles etc. Absolutely awful!

  56. Kiwicelt says:

    Review of Cervical Cancer occurance in NZ women between 2008-2012. This was done by Professor Peter Sykes and his team Otago University. The following is page 11 of the document .Note 3% of the cervical cancers were non HPV.

    “Review of available pathology reports for the 542 women with SCC, it was determined that 26% had microinvasive disease, 56% had stage 1b disease or greater, while no determination regarding the extent of disease could be made for 18%.
    Ethnicity data was retrieved from the NCR and reported as total response ethnicity. 22% of women were identified as Māori, 9% of women identified as Pacific island, and 7% of women were identified as Asian
    High levels of social deprivation and Māori ethnicity appear to be associated with an increased occurrence of cervical cancer.
    A total of 14% of the 772 women with confirmed cervical cancer were outside the 25-69 year screening age group in whom the screening history was audited and 3% had non-HPV related cancer types.
    A review of screening history was performed on 644 women aged 25-69 years. Smears performed in the 6 months prior to diagnosis were considered to be part of the diagnostic process and therefore excluded. For all women with cervical cancer, 70% had ever been screened, 46% had been screened in the 5 year and 37% had been screened in the 3 year interval prior to their diagnosis.
    Using the definition of 2 smears 3 years apart in the 6-84 months prior to diagnosis only 13% of women age 25-69 with cervical cancer had been adequately screened and only 17 % had undergone five yearly screens.
    For women with SCC, 66% had ever been screened, 40% had been screened in the 5 years prior to diagnosis, and 32% in the 3 years prior to diagnosis. Only 11% had been adequately screened.
    Māori women and women from higher levels of deprivation were less likely to have been screened prior to their diagnosis.
    One third of the 366 women who had been screened in the 6-84 months prior to diagnosis had an abnormal screening test. Therefore an opportunity for prevention or earlier diagnosis of cancer may have been missed”.

    Even when women had an abnormal smear test result it was not necessarily acted on by the wondrous screening programme!

    • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

      Wow. I remember reading that too – only 3% were non-HPV?!! What was the excuse for all those missed diagnoses?!

      As it has recently been acknowledged that HPV related cancer can (usually) take up to ten years to develop, even the five year interval range is shocking – 46% = nearly half! And the three year interval range is a modest improvement.
      Even for the “never screened”, more than one third of those cases would likely have been missed!
      There is a better way to test and the “experts” are dismissing it so they don’t lose control of women. Morally reprehensible in the extreme.

    • Apocalyptic queen (UK) says:

      Another point I may add, one argument that gets thrown at me by “experts” and medics when I point out the flaws is that there has been changes to the screening programme since 2003. Yet they cannot refute that the stats still broadly corroborate the claims made about the false positive and false negative rates with regards to conventional testing.

  57. katrehman says:

    Thank you AQ and kiwi.. I’m amazed my comment about tactics docs used to force us into smears got published!! Omg they note shape ect of your lady bits…beyond odd!

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