Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.


  1. Hi ladies,
    Yet another gp has been convicted of sexual misconduct
    Dr Krishna Singh, has been found guilty of 54 offences against 48 women and girls in the age group of between 14and 66 over a period of 35 years, which is absolutely horrendous but the most sickening aspect of this is the fact that he was also a police examiner and when a women went to the police after being raped he subjected her to a further assault, his sentence is to be announced next month, I think we ought to run a parallel site where we push for the reintroduction of corporal punishment and then we could watch this bastard swinging on the end of a rope, I simply can’t describe how furious I was after reading about this, why in this day and age are men still involved in female healthcare.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks Jules.

      I think the horrendous thing is how long the offending went on for. I’m sure he was reported very early on by women, and their complaints must have been silenced or ignored.

      I’m going through a horrendous situation myself where I’m being harassed and stalked to the point of considering suicide, and the police won’t believe a word I say.

      I even had a detective tell me I was crazy and needed counselling.

      The last time I went to a police station begging for help, they told me to go away and get lost.

      The last two times I actually called police for help, they never arrived and I had a mental health nurse calling me instead of police assistance.

      I wish I had been born in a time when women are believed and listened to. 😦

  2. Hi Oz,
    When myself and Annette were younger and living at home mom told us a story about an aunt of ours (she’s dead now ) who was plagued by someone who kept making obscene phone calls which went on for months in desperation she told her mom and she took her advice, when the next call came off this guy instead of putting the phone down she said unless you’ve got ten inches and a Mercedes I’m not really interested, that was the last time he called. Her mom was seventy at the time and very prim and proper so we both found this hilarious.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks for the advice Jules, I’ll keep hoping the Police get off their butts and help, but after being abused for so long, I doubt it.

  3. Hi oz,
    I can’t imagine just how unnerving it must be having a stalker, when I was at uni an ex police woman used to come to give self defence classes in one of the communal rooms for any girl who felt the need for it, there are measures that you can take to protect yourself if nobody else will, one that stayed with me is always be aware of your surroundings and if you are walking alone at night is to always hold your keys in the palm of your hand with the longest sticking out between two fingers and keep your hand in your pocket if you are attacked jab the person in the eyes with the key making as much noise as you can. I don’t know about the gun laws in Australia you could always take that route if it was legal, nothing more off putting for a stalker than looking down the barrel of of gun held by your victim.
    Hugs Jules x.

  4. Hi everyone,
    I hope you all had a good Easter, it feels like ages since I last posted on here but work wise its been manic. Quick question for you all, have any of you had a private health assessment? I have been offered one through my Husbands work as he gets high level private medical care and he has added me to it. This isn’t the sort of health check that I would normally consider as most of the tests are covered in the annual CAA medical I have to have for work but being a bit of a gym addict and the fact that the BUPA one offers a full ECG while your pedalling like mad under load on an exercise bike and I am interested in seeing how fit I really am.
    You get the usual health checks as part of a 45 minute consultation at the end with a GP and my husband was offered (and declined) a testicles check, I will be offered “if clinically indicated” a breast exam, pelvic exam, cervical smear, and high vaginal swab. Needless to say I will be declining them and it will be interesting to see how push the GP is. Just wondered if anyone else on here has had one and if it was a positive experience or not..


    • My neighbours have private health insurance as husband got Hodgkin’s Lymphoma about 20 years ago. He’s still going strong. She told me that she accompanied him to his appointments and was approached by some doctor there for a smear test. To this day she regrets agreeing to it as one wasn’t due and it was purely for his own gratification. She told me she felt pressure was put on her, like it may affect her husband’s treatment, and be part of a package, so felt compelled to go along with it. We must have been in our 30’s about this time and the pressure to test was relentless, and there was no social media to find out otherwise. Their NHS GP had failed to diagnose the lymphoma for a long time as he thought her husband was too young for it, so they genuinely feared being put back on this NHS GPs books again and were grateful his company offered private healthcare. She told me she was reluctant to upset the boat in any way and reluctantly went along with the smear test to ensure her husband had the best care. It was disgusting the way they treated women in those days, and I’d hope that’s not the case now, but I’d want to know if refusing these screening tests might in any way affect your care with BUPA.

      • Hi Adawells,
        I will let you know how it goes, i would be shocked if refusing to have a smear test would affect my BUPA care but stranger things have happened (although if I was in the USA I would expect to be coerced into having this during the visit. I will have my assertive pilots head on when I go 🙂


      • Hi Adawells,
        It’s a sad situation that somebody felt compelled to undergo
        an unwanted procedure for thinking that it may have consequences that would affect the treatment of someone else near to them , women should have a well rehearsed response to this line of attack by saying that it’s the wrong time of the month or there is a probability of pregnancy or you’ve had a hysterectomy, a rehearsed answer may defend against unwanted attention.
        Hugs Jules x.

  5. Hi Everyone,
    Further to my post last week I still havent got round to booking my health assesment yet. In the meantime this came up on my twitter feed a few days ago. This poor deluded girl seems to have convinced herself that she needed a smear test when she was a virgin. Not only that she has the wrong information:


    It looks like it was peer pressure that coerced her into having this vile procedure carried out.


    • That story is fake news equal to the Steel Dossier.
      It’s watered down every concern one could have.
      It automatically dismisses any protests, and it humiliates every woman who’s experienced trauma during of these medically condoned rapes.

    • As a person who had this test done when i was a virgin, why? What about False positives, and some doctors may actually biopsy the cervix. poor people are misinformed! mistake honestly.. ugh.

  6. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/real-lives/woman-no-symptoms-given-devastating-23958350

    Still peddling these stories, and seems like they’re getting desperate to find anybody with abnormal cells these days. Sounds like this lady had CIN3 and the “pre-cancerous” cells removed, but she’s calling it cervical cancer with real tumours. However, the colposcopy seems to have miraculously cured her of her “cancer” and she’s now in the clear, with 6 monthly check-ups. With real cancer you’d be in for surgery within the next 2 months. About time they got these stories straight and gave women honest information about this lousy test.

    • *sigh* There have always been thousands of these phoney “cancer survivors” who say they’d be dead had they not found it and cured it when they did, encouraging everyone to have more and more cancer tests. What’s really happening is these are victims of overdiagnosis and overtreatment – they are now cancer-free because they never had cancer – they just had a cancer scare and the ensuing hysteria.

      • Well said Beth, most of these people who have had their lives “saved by a smear” never had cancer in the first place.


    • What a hilarious article. Woman has pap, woman gets results that she doesn’t understand and isn’t willing to share for the sake of a published article, woman gets colposcopy and bam, cured of cancer.

      That’s not how any of it works, but it seems to be enough to slap on the internet for all of eternity and use to frighten a few women into getting a pap they might’ve been putting off.

      What’s the real deal behind this article? Did this woman really approach a sketchy looking news outlet in the hopes of sharing her weirdass story? Or was she approached? What on earth is going on here… it’d be straight up funny if it weren’t so frustrating. Gotta rely on ignorance to keep those pap numbers up and quotas met!

  7. Same old same, unfortunately…
    From QnA on

    Women’s Question, asked by women who tested positive for HPV:
    “Should my partner be examined?”

    Medical answer:
    The only time you need to examine an HPV-infected patient’s male sexual partner is if he reports clinically visible lesions, such as penile or anal warts. Examination at high magnification with 3% to 5% acetic acid solution often leads to overdiagnosing and overtreating benign HPV-unrelated penile skin conditions with potentially disastrous adverse events.

    So, men, regardless of their HPV status should be spared any tests, discomfort, pain, or -forbid- consequences! They can keep having fun and infecting other women.

    At the same time, it is perfectly acceptable -and relentlessly advised by the medical system- to torture women with scary cancer stories, shove speculums inside their vaginas, scrape their cervixes with abrasive brushes and spatulas, tear off whole chunks of living cervix tissues for biopsies, and cut and burn off huge pieces of cervixes as a “treatment”.

    Perfect equality between genders. Medical business as usual.

    • If you can, find a Youtube video of this test being performed. I’ve looked with no luck. It’s talked about though; which means without actual video of it being done should raise red flags. That’s a sign I always look for. If a demonstration of a procedure is honest, then we’ll see pain etc moderated.
      This test involves inserting a cotton swab inside the urethra. I don’t know how far it gets inserted. Then it’s twisted to remove cells.
      My husband cannot imagine how painful that would be. Especially if there’s a lesion.
      If they wanted, local anesthesia could be injected at base of penis. But that’s an extra procedure and time. And we know how providers are when they have to mediate pain.
      Otherwise you’re absolutely right. The male could have a weaker immune system and never throw the virus. While continuing to infect.
      That’s why we need friendlier, more accurate tests.
      And we know how the medical power nazis be feel about that.

      • Yes, of course we need less painful and more accessible HPV tests, for both genders. What I was pointing out is that painful procedures for men get much more consideration than for women.

        There also should be an option to have an HPV test anonymously. So that a woman, if she wishes, could check her HPV status without having her personal data recorded in various screening databases and medical surveillance registers, and being harassed by countless recalls and reminders.

        Regarding HPV and vinegar solution, HPV doesn’t have a cell. No viruses do. That’s why all viruses have to invade host cells and use the resources and mechanisms of those cells for self-replication. And that’s why DNA changes in the cell instigated by the virus may eventually lead to cancer: because the cell replication mechanism, altered by the virus, no longer works in the interests of the host body. It begins to work in the interests of the virus that “wants” only two things – to spread and to multiply. And that’s exactly what cancer is: uncontrolled, excessive and potentially infinitive multiplication and spread.

        Yes, the vinegar solution can (possibly) damage the cell to the point that its mechanisms can no longer work for the virus. But at the concentration of 3-5% it would only happen to topmost cells, if at all. The virus would most likely survive in the cells underneath anyway. And using a more concentrated solution would be too harmful for the healthy cells, without any proved benefit. So, vinegar is definitely not the cure.

        Luckily, our bodies already have a perfectly designed protection and cure mechanism. It is called the immune system. When functioning properly and not stressed by external factors (including cancer screening and medical scaremongering), it can (and does) efficiently detect and destroy all precancerous and cancerous cells in the body. That’s why most cervical abnormalities go away without any treatment. And when the medical system claims that its screening and treatment program “saved lives”, all it does in most cases is detecting and unnecessarily over-treating the lesions that would have healed on their own anyway. And in doing that, it is causing the affected women enormous amount of stress and pain along the way.

        It is important to remember that our bodies produce various mutated and cancerous cells every day, and our immune system deals perfectly well with the vast majority of them. It’s only when something suddenly causes an excessive number of abnormal cells (such as having sex with an HPV-infected man) and/or has weakened the immune system (such as stress, or smoking, or unhealthy lifestyle), it misses some damaged cell somewhere, which may occasionally turn into cancer later.

    • Question if anyone can help me.
      Doesn’t the 3-5% vinegar solution kill the HPV cells?
      They absorb it differently as it causes them to illuminate under a proper light wavelength.

    • This is where my last gyno failed me, “oh you have HPV Positive results, so you have a chance of developing cervical cancer. He was trying to scare me with the oh you have cancer tactics, when it could not be the case at all. Also my partner had that test done before, he said it was painful. but you know, if it is painful for males, think of us females, super painful with the speculum.

      • How far was the swab pushed down his urethra? How long did it take? Draw blood?

    • Notice how they didn’t even advise that suspected HPV-positive men wear condoms to protect their partners or other unsuspecting female victims from infection 👀

  8. Seem to remember reading somewhere that free HIV tests are available from various machines in clubs and maybe gyms in the UK. They trust people to turn up for treatment if they get a positive result, and I understand that this system is working well. I don’t see why they can’t make HPV swab tests similarly available for people to try. Cut out the screening and provide people with self-test kits if they want it. I strongly suspect it’s got a lot to do with men being trusted and women being treated as imbeciles who need their bodies policed by the gynos.

  9. Nena, that’s such a fair point about biopsies!

    It is incomprehensible that we live in a society that flew to Mars, built the Internet, invented smartphones, and yet is perfectly content with continuing using medieval torture methods in women’s healthcare.

    It is unbelievable that cervix-puncturing tenaculum is still used for holding the cervix in place, and that cervical biopsy forceps are still used for taking samples!

    The modern medicine thinks it’s perfectly fine to sink the claws of those forceps into the cervix tissue, then close them and tear off a huge chunk of meat off the woman’s cervix, usually without any anaesthetic, calling the procedure “a slight discomfort”. What’s most unforgivable is that this barbaric procedure tears off a chink of the underlying cervical stoma with muscles, nerves and blood vessels, which causes a lot of pain and an extensive damage to the cervix, but is absolutely not needed for the purpose of the biopsy and is discarded later in the laboratory, because the histology analysis requires only the thin layer at the top – epithelium.

    And this butchery continues because it is cheaper for the system, and because it is faster and more convenient for the medical profession to keep torturing women like that. By keeping the status quo, they don’t need to rewrite the manuals, don’t need to learn anything new, don’t need to undergo any new training for much more humane methods like strip biopsy. Medical business as usual, indeed!

    • I have been away working for a few days and only just seen this discussion. Working for an airline when we are away on a long haul I often get chatting to the cabin crew when we are checked into the hotel. A number of male cabin crew have had the urethral swab and say it only goes in about 5mm but is incredible painful. Its like a small cotton bud going in without any KY that is then rotated and pulled out. It apparently takes about 3 seconds. The only way a local anaestetic woud work is if it was injected into the head of the penis which I am told would be even more painful. One of the guys said there was a series on channel 4 called sex clinic and it was shown on there and the guy screamed.


      • That guy is correct. There are couples whom the male will use a very small and rounded eyedropper to install THC drops inside his urethra. The idea is to be erect, then sort of hold the phallus while the eyedropper goes just beyond the grip. Then the liquid is pushed in, while pressure is held on the bulb so it doesn’t suck out or leak. The endgame is to have wicked sex while hovering on the precipice of a huge orgasm.
        Literally the same is done to dispense lidocaine gel into the male urethra. This is done prior to catheterization and some other procedures.
        The lidocaine would sting some; but I don’t know how much. Similar but weather formulations are used in ejaculation delaying products which are topically applied. I don’t know if those effect women; never encountered them.
        The problem in obtaining a STI specimen is that saline or lido on the q-tip would compromise obtaining a valid sample. As we know that story…
        You’ve heard me talk about the long ago discontinued Trovagene Urine Based HPV test.
        This product was perfect for HPV testing. As urine based, no pain, no muss, no fuss.
        With PCR tech and antibody capture, 93% accuracy.
        Easy to imagine how that would be a game changer.

  10. So i actually have an update regarding me: i finally went to a new PCP, who is very friendly and helpful. got labwork done with my thyroid and it’s all wonky. What’s interesting is that i don’t feel weird at all, and always get accused of not taking my medicine. Which okay may seem that way, but i’ve been taking it every day at 5:00AM. Anyways, told my doctor this and she was nice about it thank god. I scheduled an annual exam for January of next year. My only issue is that i don’t want a pap smear like at all. I did tell the doctor’s assistant who made a note on my chart. because i explained that it hurt me and bla bla bla. but how can i deny an exam that i don’t want?

    • Hi Sunflowergal22, if you dont want a smear test tell the Dr at the time. If he/she wont take no for an answer tell him/her that if they force this on you you will report them to the police for sexual assault.


    • Just say no. If they push for a reason, tell them that saying no is sufficient, or you will report them for harassment.

  11. I have been doing a bit of introspection. Some doctors that I have been to in the past have been respectful and takes a straight no for an answer.

    There was one who waited for me to give a reason before going out of the room to ask the nurse something. To this day, I have not found out why.

    They don’t need a reason from you. Just say no, I have made my decision of sound mind. If they do hear a reason, they will argue with you to wear you down until you cannot reasonably refuse. That’s coercion.

    I have finally worked out why I was disturbed. I have received a response from the HCCC but they made it sound like there was no reason for me to be upset.

    • Thanks for the help! i suppose i am just scared because some may not want no for an answer. but i know what is good for my body. My issue is that i have been disrupted so many times in the past by what i want to put in my body and whatnot.

      • It doesn’t matter what they want. They are not you or your body, and to coerce or make the test sound mandatory or wear you down is harassment.

  12. Hi ladies,
    Sorry I haven’t been around for a while, but I’ve been insanely busy. I’ve seen a couple of unfamiliar names posting, it’s great that you’ve found your way here and welcome. It’s just been reported on the BBC news that after investigations into the cervical screening exam that a five yearly interval with the hpv test is adequate for cancer detection. I’ve got a feeling there may be an “announcement” soon, so expect outrage from the screenaholic brigade personally I can’t wait for the sh!! to hit the fan, they may have to reveal some truths to smooth things over with these morons.
    Hugs Jules x.

  13. Uk ladies, for anyone fed up with the Jubilee, BBC2 tonight 9pm making sense of cancer
    Professor of Maths Hannah Fry diagnosed with cervical cancer at aged 36 “investigates the way we diagnose and treat cancer by examining statistics “

  14. Hi ladies,
    News about one of my previous posts, Dr Krishna Singh was found guilty of all but one charge at court of sexual misconduct over a period of 35 years against 47 females including two underage girls , one lady who was pregnant, and a rape victim who was abused during her rape exam, this animal was described in court of being of previous good character and the recipient of an MBE for his “services to the medical profession ” Who the fu!! are they trying to kid, his sentence 12 years is nowhere near enough for the emotional damage and anguish he’s caused
    he should have been nailed to the floor , dowsed in petrol and set alight.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • That’s so pathetic. What a non-story that is. Says “up to 100” in the article, and we know that only about 1 in 100 women is at risk. These local rags are always promoting these “tragic” tales of doom, but every year thousands of young people commit suicide because children’s mental health services are so underfunded, but you can walk in and get a smear test anytime. Makes me sick the amount of money that’s thrown at this rubbish.

      Meanwhile, downunder, HPV self-testing will be available to all after July 1st:

      • Thats brilliant but can you imaging the furore if 100% self testing was introduced here in the UK? It would free up practice nurses to do proper work, think of the poor agressive receptionist who would no longer be able to coerce you to come in for screening, it would even free up time in GP surgeries to do other more relevant treatments and ease the workload……


      • This was recently tweeted by @TomPMarshall a researcher in Public Health who I follow. Often says wise words about screening.

        “The UK cervical screening programme faces an interesting dilemma. The cohort of HPV-vaccinated women are at half the risk of an earlier generation, changing the cost-benefit ratio.
        But screening programmes are institutions & their primary function is to maintain their existence”.

        There are quite a few in the public health sector who know it’s a big waste of money, and yet there are the afficionados who are raking in so much money for these pathetic research projects, where other countries have already moved on. Not to mention the GPs and their incentive payments.

        We’re dealing with the last very elderly relations in the family now and it is appalling the lack of care elderly people actually get. Discharged from hospital with no care plans/support in place, family members at their wits end caring for very disabled relatives. These smear test nurses need putting back into the community to act as district nurses and caring for those most in need, yet families are forced to pay for all of this privately.

        Makes my blood boil. And we have yet another cervical screening awareness week coming up on 20th June.

      • that’s great! This should be available to everyone, including other countries. There’s even a self test on NURX but, sadly it isn’t available in my state yet. And yeah it’s sad that mental health isn’t as important for professionals. it should be– i always said things can get better with time, but as a person who considered mental health issues, mental health should be available to all. it’s sad that we can ruin our bodies for free, but to talk to a therapist, we need to pay. crazy.

  15. Hi adawells,
    Another awareness campaign on the 20th can’t wait ,I find them a great source of amusement these days I’m just wondering if they can manage to come up with any new slant on the topic or if it will be the same old drivel they have been promoting for the last 30 years, I’m not going to hold my breath, probably just more of the same old same old, some people just don’t learn, but then again with more than 1 in 3 women not bothering with paps maybe some do.
    Hugs Jules x.

  16. Hi ladies,
    You will be pleased to hear that we can all relax, on the BBC news today they announced that an ambassador for women’s healthcare has been appointed
    Dame Lesley Regan she is leading a campaign called women’s health strategy and she wants to introduce “health hubs” where women can go to access all female health needs such as HRT, contraception , at home abortion pills and of course the good old smear test, thought it was too good to be true , but what can you expect from a prof of obstetrics and gynaecology from the imperial college London, she’s just going to enforce the age old propaganda they all do and any other person with a different view must be an idiot, sounds to me like if you did go with a problem it would just be another chance for them to try and get you to submit to their demands.
    Hugs Jules x./

    • Wait until men begin lining up for abortions and scrape tests.
      Ahh socialized medical care.
      Getting what you pay for.

  17. Daily Express today UK ladies, David Tennants wife Georgia fuelling the cervical hysteria raising awareness of her story and how vital smears are. She said borderline changes had her planning her funeral and eventually she had CIN 2 which we all know can reverse itself… groan!
    On another note I’m relocating in 2 weeks from SE England to nearer my adult daughter in Wales, and I’m already thinking about if my as yet unknown new doctor will hound me to have smears and mammograms! The answer will still be NO!

  18. Perhaps Ms Tennant should read the Daily Fail who carry a story of a woman who’s cervical cancer returned. Said woman ditched her 16 hour long workdays became a vegan sex therapist and inserts cannabis into her vagina every day…..

  19. Hey everyone! Hope all is well. I just wanted to say how proud i am of myself for well standing up to my experiences. A year ago, i made the firm decision to review all my doctors that i’ve been to, i started with yelp, but put some on healthgrades as well.. i wrote honest reviews detailing my bad experiences at the doctors that i’ve been to. This includes all gyno exams and doctors that i’ve been to. But even though i written those reviews, i still feel feelings of trauma. Does anyone else feel this way at all? Like i wish i could just tell my past self– don’t worry about these exams and insert the knowledge i have right now. Like i know today to say no, i don’t want this but wish i was that brave in the past. wish i didn’t have no pelvic exams and that inaccurate pap test. i only had it 3 times but, 3 times too many. like it’s sickening that some perform that test on virgins, and perform it no matter what on people who don’t want it. like even being not listening to has made me distrust all doctors not just gynos.

    • Well done! I did the same – reviewed all my past doctors on HealthGrades, Vitals, etc., and detailed how many unnecessary pelvic exams they performed and colposcopies they referred me for (I only attended 1 and they didn’t bother with a biopsy, thank god, because there was nothing there). And yes, it’s always always hard to relive that stuff. My heart starts pounding, my hands shaking, and I feel both angry and powerless at the same time.

      In a way, I’m a little glad for it because it motivates me to warn others and spread the word where I can.

      • I’ve said a Pap Scrape (the smear is what’s done on the glass slide–the scrape is how they get the sample to smear and that scrape draws blood which is why it hurts) is only 50% accurate.
        Vs the Trovagene (now Cardiff Diagnostics) Urine Based HPV test that was 93% accurate.
        That’s why your colposcopy had nothing. You were sent for a coin toss.

      • Hey there! Yes, i am proud of myself too for giving reviews based upon my experiences. it’s just some days i can’t believe i am still truamatized by what happened to me. Glad to see that others feel the same way tho as far as being retruamatized. i just don’t like being truamatized all the time– like i know i’ll heal eventually but it’s almost like i am still annoyed by it, thus causing me to relive it all the time. not fun when one is trying to heal. i even don’t think i’ll ever go to a gyno ever again.

  20. It’s a sad day for the US today as Roe v Wade was just overturned and more than half of the population will soon no longer have access to abortion.

    What I haven’t seen any mention of yet is that now more than ever, we need to make birth control available over the counter. Studies have shown it’s safe enough, ACOG recommends it, and it’s OTC in many countries already.

    You ask the average woman what she thinks about birth control being OTC and you’ll hear that it’s not safe enough and that without requiring a doctor’s visit, women can’t be trusted to keep up with Paps and other testing that is unnecessary for birth control. These patriarchal views still have a strong hold, even in the staunchest of feminists.

    I know not everyone is on board with birth control pills, but with rights being taken away, we need every contraceptive option to be as accessible as possible. I am wishing and hoping that this will be the wake-up call we’ve been needing to separate birth control from a doctor’s control.

    For any US women who happen to read this, aidaccess.org will mail you abortion pills whether you need them now or might in the future.

    • Well I agree with every word you say.
      BC pills should be easily obtained. Except if you shop at WalFart. That law has been in power in CA for what, a decade or close to it? Yet WalFart refused to allow its pharmacists to distribute The Pill.
      You talk about a bunch of pent up cement prostate old resentful geezers?
      There could be a huge public affairs push, including that to encourage testing by something other than Pap Scrape. I’m the one who in 2012 had the then exclusive Trovagene Urine Based HPV Test. So I know it can be done.
      And that, however, truly does give us control over our own bodies to do as we like.

  21. Hi Dizzle,
    I can’t believe the Roe v Wade decision either, what the hell are they thinking, this is in no way their decision to make, a woman would have given this a great deal of thought before she would of made her decision to terminate it would be an emotional and difficult choice and one not taken lightly, and could be the result of failed contraception or even by an attack, for which she cannot be held responsible, the people who come up with these idea’s show just out of touch with reality they really are this should be the individuals choice not theirs, have they not heard of women’s rights, but seeing that most of these decisions are made by men obviously these are discarded.
    Hugs Jules x.

  22. Hi ladies!
    Question for you guys. Coming to you all first of course because everyone else will just tell me “go see a doctor.” Screw that, they’ll of course just want to do all these ridiculous invasive exams.
    My right ovary has been hurting on and off the past 2 days, and my period is expected this week. I understand ovulation pain comes with the cycle but this is right before my period. I could be reaching but I hope it’s not a sign of an ectopic pregnancy. I’ll pee on a stick here soon to check anyway (hoping it’s negative, not planning on getting pregnant anytime soon still).
    What do you all think it might be? It’s not excruciating just so you know, just an annoying dull pain. I’m hoping it’s just weird PMS pain that I get only every so often. I woke up yesterday with some weird sharp stomach pains that was also in my chest area, then that stopped. Then later on I had awful low back pain which eventually carried to my right ovary. It didn’t last long, but I felt it again today around the same time I did yesterday. It went away after a little while, and tonight I’m feeling a very faint pain but it’s still there.
    Like I said, it’s not awful or debilitating, I’m just hoping it’s nothing to worry about and that I won’t have to go in to see someone about it… hope to hear from you guys soon, thanks. You’re all amazing!

      • Do ovarian cysts go away on their own? As far as I know I’ve never had one before. I hope it’s nothing to worry about.

      • Usually yes.
        The pinheads will want to pap scrape you first and foremost.
        Waste of time.
        If it’s passed, watch next 3 months to see if it repeats.
        Got heating pad?

      • It went away! It lasted on and off for about 3 days. I took a pregnancy test too and it’s negative. And thank you for your responses.
        Like I said before it was a very dull pain, but it wasn’t excruciating. I knew to just wait it out. I usually do that with most things I’m having issues with lol. I’ve just had a hard time trusting doctors as you can only guess why of course.
        I’m thinking of finding a holistic doctor because they aren’t usually linked to the big pharmaceutical industry. Do holistic doctors have anything to do with gynecology? Hopefully not, but I’m sure that they’d be more understanding than standard doctors who push paps on every woman ever.

  23. Hi all,
    Yes sad day indeed for the overturned decision of Roe VS Wade. First off, as mentioned on this site, it is a woman’s choice to terminate or not. plus one may not know, maybe there are special circumstances like having an genetic disorder where they may not want or afford to have kids. 2nd off, as previously mentioned, i hope they don’t end up going after birth control now. There are many people who are taking birth control that are ordering from NURX or other online pharmacies because they don’t want the pressure of paps or from their doctor. it should be the choice of the individual and not the government. plus now, where abortons are illegal, some may do it themselves, which can be worst than having a doctor do it.

    • I wish governments understood that making abortions illegal won’t keep them from happening. They’ll just make them less safe and can/will die from it when doing it themselves. They’re willing to even criminalize women who miscarry. That’s such an overreach!

  24. Good morning everyone,
    I have just seen this on Youtube, if this can be rolled out in Australia why can the same be done here??


  25. Hi ladies,
    Just found an interesting article on the Daily mirror website, at the start of the year in January the powers that be launched the first awareness campaign week of the year with barely a break before the second started for a whole month and now we have had the third, everybody has been pretty much saturated with these bloody campaigns already this year, and the resulting rewards for these maniacs,
    City of London-39.8%
    Kensington and Chelsea-41.7%
    Tower hamlets-49.5%Hammersmith and Fulham-50%
    Islington- 52%
    After all their relentless efforts
    a continuous drop in screening
    Ha ha ha ha ha, is it too early in the day to have a celebratory drink.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules,
      What they don’t tell you is that London has the lowest rates of cervical cancer in the UK. Funny that isn’t it, that the areas with the lowest uptake of screening also have the lowest rates of this cancer? They don’t make that very public, in case the public starts doing the sums.
      I expect the screening rates to go up though. Many of these figures are for those without a test in last 3.5 years. Now that test’s are done every 5.5 years this figure is bound to have increased compliance. Sadly.

    • It seems as though the most affluent areas have the lowest screening rates, ie. City of London and Kensington/ Chelsea, and the screening rates for Tower Hamlets, Islington, Brent etc is higher.

      Evidence potentially of bullying minority communities into screening perhaps? We know there has been a big focus on them in recent years.

      Also, what is the viability rate for this programme? 70% compliance across the country? How on earth is it allowed to continue without at least a review to determine whether the programme is still merited?? “Screening committee” making the rules up as they go along???

      • Jules and AQ this is interesting! I’m actually in Luton , I’m relocating to wales next week and have been in Luton most of my life. It’s a deprived town, high ethnic minority population, mainly Pakistani/?Indian: Bengali, fair amount Jamaican/ West Indian/ Somali
        I was put under intense pressure to screen when I changed practices about 2006, so much so I dubbed my main tormentor Dr Smear Test. I wondered if maybe it was because as I was white it was perceived I’d feel better about getting my vagina out?!

      • It’s possible those in the more affluent areas make use of private healthcare in addition to/instead of NHS care. So they’re on the list as having not screened but may have elsewhere (where they can actually pick and choose an appt that suits them and everything is shiny and new).

        Just a theory. It could well be they’re clued up and made an informed choice to decline.

      • Kat – I hope you enjoy Wales Kat!

        Caroline – That could well be another reason why women in the affluent boroughs are not screening. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if they also have some of the highest rates of informed “dissenters”!

  26. Re. Roe v Wade – This is a terrifying decision and will have unintended (or perhaps, deliberate) consequences. Many women will almost certainly die.

    The laws in Mississipi, Missouri, Tennessee etc allow for abortions where a woman’s life is in “immediate danger”.

    On the face of it, that might sound as though a woman at risk of sepsis might be safe but the catch is the wording,”immediate danger”.

    A woman who is told she is at risk of “threatened abortion” due to blood pooling or ectopic pregnancy will not be eligible for an abortion.

    She will only be eligible when her condition becomes critical and her life is judged to be in “immediate danger”, so basically when she is haemorraghing and her oxygen levels drop.

    Medical practitioners in some states are already referring women to places like New Mexico to avoid operating on them.

    I don’t believe any of this is accidental though, or that legislators who state that an ectopic pregnancy can be “replanted” don’t know what they are doing.

    I have noticed a sharp rise in incel culture in the West in recent years who are emboldened by this decision and I have no doubt the justices will go after contraception next, as promised by Clarence Thomas. There’s a saying that when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

    What annoys me is some lobby groups, including some Planned Parenthood groups, who are telling women that contraception is not at risk and implying that everyone is being hysterical.
    They are no doubt the same people who endorsed Susan Collins (a pro-choice Republican who backed two conservative justices for the SCOTUS), and those who told feminists they were being hysterical when they warned that Roe v Wade was at risk of being overturned.

    I hope the Democrats are organised this November. They are going to have to be utterly ruthless.

    Reverting to the UK for a minute, I just wanted to tell those of you who are in Britain, that I ordered my six month supply of Microgynon today for endometriosis-type symptoms with Simplemedsonline.

    The process was very simple. There was a brief questionnaire of 10 multi-choice questions and not a SINGLE question about smear tests.

    It was also very reasonably priced at £17.99 and as a new customer, I managed to get it for £14.39 with free delivery – at least £10 cheaper than Superdrug.

    Thought I’d give you alll a heads up, especially given the rise in costs for just about everything at the moment!

  27. AQ and UK ladies, can’t remember where exactly (I’m full of cold and busy organising my relocation) but I saw yesterday online a UK Tory MPNsaying that actually UK women shouldn’t/ might not have absolute body autonomy over abortion so this might hit UK too. And if we Don have the right to abortion, could they then mandate screening? As we don’t have autonomy??

    • There’s a lot of fearmongering with these changes.
      Let the law take effect first.
      The hype will settle.

    • Oh yes, Danny Kruger, the son of Prue Leith. Or perhaps, being the son of Freddy Kruger would be a more apt description..

      The problem with discussing the Roe v Wade judgement here in the UK and other countries outside of the US is that it draws out the crazies and gives them the attention and the oxygen that otherwise, they wouldn’t get.

      Why were they discussing the judgement in the House of Commons, when the procedure gere is legal? It just emboldens those who would see avortion banned here

      • AQ Freddy Kruger… priceless!!good name change. And yes it was that I was thinking of!!

      • Love that. Imagine him trying to put on a glove.
        Or Jason wearing a mask over his hockey mask.

    • One hopeful sign is that the UK government has offered any US woman who needs reproductive healthcare (e.g., abortion, or contraception if or when they criminalize that, or treatment for a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy) access to FREE healthcare in the UK. She would have to get there (there are already private funding sources for women who need to travel). No doubt she’d be pap-screened to access that healthcare, but that’s the case in the US too.

  28. Hi ladies,
    I have an idea, it’s a bit radical but I think it could sway things to our way of thinking,
    “Celibacy”if all women abstained from intimate relations, how long would it take before all men gave in to our way of thinking.
    no sex , no need for contraception, no need for female exams, no chance of getting HPV or any other nasties
    no more laws saying what a woman is allowed to do with her body, no more doctor lectures, and I’m sure with a visit to an Ann summers outlet could put our own needs in order, I give men three months tops before we rule the world, and a hi to kat I hope the move goes ok.
    Hugs Jules .

    • Ah, but there WOULD be a “need” for internal vaginal exams to receive any other type of healthcare. That would be used as the coercion to acquiesce to the nice doctor cranking us open, pap scraping us, possibly infecting us with his/her fingers or instruments (requiring more trips to being cranked open). All of this by telling us how they are trying to protect us from this RAMPANT cancer, which is considered rare if you look at any actual numbers and definition of common or rare cancers.

    • Jules I love your comments you’re priceless?!!😸
      Three MONTHS?
      I’m not running any man down o give 3 days but….?!

  29. Hi ladies,
    Looks like we have an unexpected convert, “our mom”when we told her of our decision not to screen she was a more than a little skeptical, having been a lifelong member of the pussy police brigade. However she went to our old gp earlier in the the week and he pointed out that she was overdue her test and she politely declined, he said if she was pushed for time she could go to reception and book for the near future, and then Just stood there waiting for a reply after a few seconds silence, he asked if she had any questions, she said yes and she was just wondered why he was continuing the conversation because as far as she was concerned that the subject was closed with her refusal, she said that he just looked at her lost for words, she bid him a good morning and then left.
    At 53yr’s old she can still amaze me.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Jules,
      That’s great to hear, because a lot of women over 50 only have 3 tests left to go, and they use this pressure to get women of that age to just submit to these last ones and then they’ll leave them alone for good.

      What I find so distasteful about cervical screening is that it’s presented as an essential ritual we all have to go through and it has preconditioned so many women into thinking their bodies cannot function without it. They have no confidence in themselves to make sound judgements about these procedures. Many just queue up for one invasive procedure after another assuming this is the lot of womankind, never questioning whether any of it is necessary. I see a lot of women post on social media complaining about the endless torture they experience at gynae visits, but you never quite get to the bottom of why they are visiting. If you press them for information they always reply that they put themselves through this because “it could be cancer”, so they will succumb to all sorts to get a clearance result. I sometimes wonder if some of these women are being treated so badly in the hope that they will stop coming back. Screening encourages people to think they require constant medical inspection, supervision and maintenance, and seems to have created swathes of women who will put themselves through any amount of harm thinking this is what women are supposed to do.

      • Those have always been my thoughts about the cervical screening programme in particular.

        When I was in my teens and early twenties, I could not understand why so many viewed this as “part of being a woman” when they were essentially man-made tests. I thought, how dare the medical profession try and enforce this for life on us whether we wanted them or not, and I just couldn’t understand for the life of me, why women just accepted this, and lined up for procedure after procedure.

        What else I couldn’t understand was that throughout human history, we have managed to propogate (perhaps too much) and evolve. The greatest dangers to women is and has always been childbirth and homicide. Yet, the NHS still pushes natural childbirth even at the expense of women who need medical intervention and to be frank, the authorities don’t seem bothered about domestic violence and the killing of women on our streets either.

        There is no mention at all in our history books of this mysterious disease striking all these women down in their prime, yet it is all our health authorities seem to care about.

        Yet, I dislike the role the NHS has played in cervical screening. It is supposed to offer medical care to the population, yet screening with its’ appropriation of women’s data, crosses the boundary in my mind, from offering medical care to surveillance and policing women’s bodies. As we know, screening is often used as an opportunity to ask intrusive questions and the answers go straight onto their database and are sometimes used for profiling. I have always found this overreach of their powers completely inappropriate.

  30. There’s a thread on Mumsnet at the moment – usual comments, including from a GP urging women to go. Self testing has been mentioned, but apparently this isn’t good enough because it won’t involve ‘visualising the cervix’. Practice nurse saying it’s a ‘good idea for someone to have a good look down there every now and again’. Lack of informed consent has been mentioned, but only in the context of samples only being checked for HPV, rather than analysing the cells themselves. I’d love to mention Dr. Margaret McCartney, Dr. Lucia Gannon and the BMJ articles regarding informed consent, but know I’d just get flamed for my ‘irresponsibility’ and ‘dangerous rhetoric!

    • Oh and someone from another country, probably the US, boasting of their annual screenings and other regular procedures, eliciting the envy of other posters who wish it could be so over here (with all the inherent harms that would bring).

      • It’s impossible to reason with the Mum’s net brigade.

        They are quite literally, fanatics.

        It’s one group I leave out of my efforts to help educate.

        I’m surprised they don’t accuse women who advocate for informed consent, of witchcraft.

  31. Hi Gem and AQ ,
    I’ve stopped visiting mum’s net, because it just winds me up, they just follow the medical recommendations to the letter not thinking for themselves or questioning it, they probably still believe that the earth is flat and the moon is made out of cheese, I can’t believe that they are all that stupid, and I can only think that this is down to the conditioning they receive from an early age it’s simply brainwashing, I was brought up as an independent individual and from an early age I questioned pretty much everything and I believe this has paid dividends as now I just don’t accept the “norm” and reason things out for myself , the herd mentality has been generated by the medical profession for compliance by installing fear for decades, having a smear test to many is abhorrent but they subject themselves to this out of misinformation, fear and coercion, and by even trying to trivialise it, it only takes 5 minutes, the nurse does this all the time , you’re just being silly this could save your life ( so could looking both ways crossing the road) I’m afraid they are going to have raise their game to convince me, their misinformation for me is sound reasoning for mistrust.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I hate to say it, but there is a sort of morality that accompanies this insidious belief in screening.

      They judge women for not going, in the same way they would have judged women for promiscuity about thirty years ago.

      There is a belief by many that these women are lazy, irresponsible and “loose”.

      I can’t tell you the amount of comments I have seen in the Daily Mail or Mum’s net saying that young women will sleep with anyone but won’t undress for a nurse.

      Where is all this judgement, misogyny and hatred coming for? Why do they care so much?? It’s just vile.

      • It seems to be just a re-hash of a common line used for centuries, combined with the medical fields’ notion that all women are having lots of sex.The line is “You had sex with Tom and Harry. Now, you’re saying you won’t have sex with me too? I’m a better guy than either of them because (reasons).” Now it is, “You’ll have lots of sex with all of these people, but won’t open your legs to let ME penetrate you too? If I do it, it might save your life.” It’s the same line. It should be met with the same rebukes.

  32. Hi ladies,
    Have you ever noticed how hypocrisy is rife in the medical community, I had a couple of hours to myself today and browsed through some sites to do with medical student learning
    and their tutors in med school they are encouraged to examine peers to enhance their skills as a trainee the majority were willing for exams of the eyes ears throat arms nose and feet, when approached for more intimate procedures, a grand total out of 425, (seven different med schools )zero volunteers , many gave reasons of religious or cultural backgrounds, modesty or embarrassment in front of peers.
    Aren’t these the very people who say examination of the genitalia is no different to examinations of other body parts and should be treated as such, if they are unwilling to be poked , prodded and probed themselves why do they expect us to be.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • For you Jules, let me repeat this true story. My husband’s ex-best friend is a board certified anesthesiologist practicing in Fairfax VA, USA. He stayed with us during his residency while he was in the Air National Guard a few decades ago.
      During this, his mother called us from another state. Apparently his sister was manipulated into the stirrups by her surgeon prior to him removing a cyst like what Rush Limbaugh had.
      It was to “rule out” cancer; although the surgeon knew she had recently endured her “yearly” raping.
      During the call, he couldn’t stop laughing.
      Years later, my husband was victim of a hospital handjob prior to surgery by five different nurses prepping him. He was thoroughly medicated and came to during…this too was nothing but amusement and laughter.
      Until my husband confronted him.
      Last, my husband used to speak to his ex-friend during surgeries. It was where they did most of their phone visiting. You could easily hear the machine in the background, and talking was a way to eliminate boredom.
      During the last call, noises were much like a frat party. Turns out it was the ob-gyn surgeon, the ex-friend anesthesiologist, and as described, a beautiful “well trimmed natural red head…”
      Incidentally the anesthesiologist had married a natural red head a few months earlier.
      The young woman was having her life ruined by LEEP after a 50% accurate pap scrape. She never knew the two perverts were having the time of their lives at her expense.
      The last comment made by the anesthesiologist? “Young women get into trouble and they have to come to us to get them out of it…” While giggling.
      You get the drift.

  33. Hi ladies,
    In women’s healthcare there are many documented cases of inadequacy, and in this day and age that really shouldn’t be the case ,but I’ve been reading a news report from last week which dealt with the way girls and young woman were treated in the 50’s and 60’s when they became pregnant outside of marriage, jeez they were treated like outcasts, ostracised by their own families sent out of town to give birth and their child taken from them straight after birthing for adoption, this involved over two thousand cases, and these women are now demanding that the government and the healthcare services involved for a public apology of their treatment, some of the woman involved said that their child had sought them out in later years, but they had lost decades of the bond they should have shared from birth,
    just thinking was this about the same time that the medical profession started treating us as second class citizens.
    Hugs Jules x.

  34. Hi all. Few questions.
    I’ve suspected I may be pregnant, and when doing some research on natural contraceptives and such, and found that neem oil is a powerful natural contraceptive that’s been used by both men and women, especially in India for thousands of years. I heard that it can also induce a miscarriage if you end up pregnant and not wanting to follow through with it. So, since I’ve suspected I might be, and don’t exactly want to be right now, I ordered neem capsules to take in case I end up being pregnant. Only thing I’ve been worrying about is if I’m not careful enough and “secretive” enough about it, because I live in a state that has trigger abortion laws and I don’t want to get in trouble with the law over something so minimal. Hell, I’m even afraid of them reading this right now (stupid Patriot Act). I don’t even think I can safely buy a pregnancy test without someone breathing down my neck about it and being in my business about it so just to be safe I’m gonna do natural at-home pregnancy tests.
    What do you guys think? Am I going to be safe from any “authority figures” in this situation? I just can’t believe women can actually get in trouble for having a miscarriage (even if it’s not on purpose). I know I won’t like tell anyone about it except for people I closely trust (including all you wonderful women on this blog) but I just want to know if I will be safe and won’t get in trouble for “purposely” inducing a miscarriage if I end up pregnant and don’t want to be right now.

    • I don’t think they’re going to prosecute women with the surveillance State that they don’t quite have in place (yet). If you’re worried about someone finding you’re buying pregnancy tests, walk in and buy them with cash. Same with any herbs or other substances you want to use – buy it from a brick & mortar store with cash.

      Ordering capsules from an online or mail order source has a few problems. One of which is that it can be tracked. The other is you may not be getting what you think you’re buying, or in the strength you think you are. Quality control is almost nonexistent on “supplements” or international semi- or quasi-pharmaceuticals.

      Do not use such things as period tracking apps. We already know that information from those is going to governments as well as to corporations as it has been for years. Use a paper calendar, and shred the calendar page at the end of the month.

      • Thank you Beth and AQ. I do have a VPN and I’ll need to remember to keep it on my phone because sometimes without my knowledge it just turns off on its own and it’s annoying. So hopefully the VPN keeps from tracking. I use it on my computer all the time. I have also deleted my cycle tracker since I have just recently heard that the information goes to governments. I will start using a paper calendar as well
        By the way y’all, I got my period so I’m not pregnant!

        Also, I don’t think they’ve yet activated the trigger laws, but I may need to check up on it. My neem capsules did come in the mail, and it did even come with a warning with “reproductive harm,” so I might try and ween myself off the pill here soon and see how that goes. I greatly appreciate all you amazing women’s input on everything. I remember talking to my friend about this same topic, and she did say to buy a test with cash just in case. I also even looked into doing natural tests at home, like with vinegar, baking soda, salt, sugar, etc.

        So, even with the neem capsules I bought with the warning label that said “reproductive harm,” should I still trust that? Or should I just try and find something at the store instead, if I can find it, instead of ordering them online? Again, thank you all for your amazing insights and wisdom.

    • I really feel for you Anon.

      I would heed Beth’s advice and perhaps buy a test from a store. Preferably, in an out of town store, where you are not likely to bump into people you know.

      They will at least be none the wiser, if it does turn out to be positive.

      Should the worse happen, do you have access to support?

      Please do not quote me on this, but I think a VPN address MIGHT help if you do decide to make out of state enquiries online.

      People I know use VPN addresses when they are downloading or streaming online content, rather than buying TV subscriptions etc. They use them because they think it caan prevent tracking, but you would need to check this out first as I am not 100% certain.

      As for contraceptives, they have not been banned yet, so you should at least have no trouble purchasing them for the time being.

      Please let us know how things work out for you. Take care of yourself. Wishing you the best xxx

    • Just wanted to ask – has your state “activated” the trigger law yet? And if so, is it an outright ban on all abortions, as opposed to somewhere like Florida which allows abortions up to 15 weeks.

      A couple of states have activated their trigger laws but they have been temporarily blocked by the courts, so Kansas and Kentucky for instance, are still allowing abortions in some situations.

      I think Michigan might have a pre-Roe law which has also been blocked in the courts.

      Might be worth checking whether there are any legal challenges in your state, if you haven’t already done so.

      Good luck once again.

      • I would also like to know something. Since I want to eventually wean myself off of birth control, I am afraid of my period pain coming back full force so quickly. I have found many holistic ways to actually cure endometriosis, which I will be on a journey to do so. One of the best ways I heard is fermented cod liver oil. Taking one TBS of it twice daily for 60 days is one way, along with diet changes alone, more towards a traditional diet of animal fats and raw dairy. I wonder though, if I can make these changes right now while I’m still on the pill or if I should wait until I get off the pill. I’m wondering if those changes can be made while I’m still on the pill, that way when I get off it, my periods won’t be as bad as they were BEFORE I went on the pill??

      • Here’s something to look up. It’s called the IUB. NOT IUD. Comes out of Israel and it’s brand new. I’d use this. It’s much smaller and is supposed to much easier to insert.
        It positions itself so you don’t need to have your uterus “sounded” or measured so it can be positioned which is extremely painful. Ditto for having to be forcefully dilated.
        Still, I’d take valium before and demand a local anesthetic at least.
        It’s shaped like a ball instead of a T so it’s safer too.

  35. Question mainly for USA posters, but for anyone to whom this is applicable…

    Do primary care Drs./GPs have the right to pressure female patients about when they last underwent so-called “well woman” exams or demand records of these exams from a female patient’s OBGYN doctor? Why would they feel the need for this information, yet not require information about their last ophthalmologist visit, dermatologist visit, etc.? A family member recently encountered this scenario when visiting a new primary care/GP doctor for the first time and it was very unsettling.

    • The thing is, US doctors are obsessed with “well woman care.” I’ve seen several doctors in recent years due to being on blood pressure meds, and the first thing out of nearly all of their mouths is “Do you have a gynecologist?” or “You should be having a Gyn exam every year.” It’s extremely disheartening not to mention infuriating. When it comes to any exam or screening I don’t want, which is pretty much all of them, I tell them I’ve studied the risks and benefits and made the decision that’s right for me. The medical community doesn’t own our bodies but it seems to think they do.

      • It’s almost as though they think women don’t have other body parts..

        Why would you want a gynaecologist for a heart or blood pressure check? 🥴

        Would they refuse to perform live saving surgery unless you confirmed your last gyn visit?

        The whole thing is bonkers.

      • Yeah i’ve seen this well women care thing, and it absoletuly blows my mind. Like i went to a new doctor in April, they asked “is it okay if your doctor makes a gyno appointment for you? i said absolutely not because i have had bad experiences with them in the past (although not at their offices) Luckily they understood and dropped it right then and there, but like when it comes to something i don’t want, i don’t need to be hearing about it. my past doctor tho in another practice always inserted in her record not in touch with gyno… that was annoying to see because again, bad experiences. it is sad to see that the medical community owns our bodies.

    • If you ask me, PCPs, while it is their job to manage healthcare overall- they don’t have a right to pressure people about well woman exams (or any other exams their patient may not want) if it is told that they don’t want these exams. i encountered a similar experience going to a new pcp, but told them that i had bad experiences with past gynos and wouldn’t go for another one. Honestly if you ask me, they should ask more about dermatologist visits or ophthalmologist visits. My current healthcare provider recommends me keeping a list of all my doctors that i go to, and give contact info to her at the next appointment. Which in my opinion is better, because they can see what doctors you do go to. I don’t blame you for feeling unsettled about it. for me sometimes even if it is just mentioned it can trigger my truama.

    • I had an encounter a couple of years ago where I was pressured – to the point of coercion – to have this stupid test and vaginal (and probably anal) penetration – when I was there for a refill of my diabetes meds, and a check of the diabetes-related issues. Instead, I spent my 20 minutes in what amounted to worse pressure to finger my vagina than I had on my worst date in high school! As the other women have said, they’re obsessed with our genitalia, to the exclusion of everything else. Just over 4,000 women die of cervical cancer in the US, diabetes is the #6 cause of death, and heart disease the #1 – the last two are the same for men or women. BTW, I’ve heard of women being subjected to this “pap crap” when they’re in the ER DURING a heart attack!

      Since then, I’ve gotten a bunch of my ducks in a row for the next time this happens. For one thing, there is the issue of consent. There are lots of things out there about what consent looks like, often written for young teens, and what it does not. They talk about “enthusiastic consent” – which this clearly is not. We have a word for penetrating someone without their consent… For another, there is probably a “patients bill of rights”, posted in the facility where your doctor works, saying that you have the right to refuse any proposed procedure or treatment, without giving up your right to be treated for others. For a third, a reason in the US to stop this nonsense coercion is that YOU are paying for it by the minute! So is your insurance company, and depending on how the visit is billed, the insurance company might be interested to know they were not paying for treatment/followup for diagnosed condition X, but for this refused nonsense.

      It would certainly be seen as sexual harassment or attempted rape if an auto mechanic claimed he had to penetrate your vagina before fixing your brakes. This is sexual harassment, and someone could make a good case of it with an auto mechanic. Reality does not take a coffee break in the medical examination room.

      You could report this to law enforcement as attempted rape. Coercion IS a type of force, in a legal sense. You could make a complaint to the medical board of your state as unethical behavior. If you don’t want to take it that far, you could file a complaint with the clinic or hospital he is working within.

      When you leave the office – perhaps by saying “enough”, and if they won’t stop and work with the condition that brought you in, when you’re checking out, LOUDLY say in the waiting room, “Dr. X would not look at or treat (my condition) until he penetrated my vagina! I got NO medical care.” Refuse to pay. Report the situation to your state’s attorney general office.

      Note that you might have to go some time without evaluation, treatment, care, or medications for your condition for awhile. That’s the fear which the coercion works on. You can find a different doctor, and tell the office in advance that you don’t want more pressure into a pelvic examination. if you know what medications you need, you might be able to get them from Mexico, or over the Internet, but be careful with the Internet sources, as you might not be getting the medication you want or need.

      Another alternative is to lie. Say that you go to Planned Parenthood for your “well women care”, and give them a date a couple of months in the past.

      Good luck with this. The more women who know they don’t have to just live with this pressure or go without medical care – which WE ARE PAYING FOR, we might actually be able to access medical care without opening our legs as the “admission price”.

  36. Exactly AQ and Susanne! The obsession with our genital! I remember years ago at my anaemia diagnosis refusing to have the test where they insert camera down your throat and up your anus to check for bleeding . I said I would try iron tablets first and improving diet first. De Smear Test was fine with my refusing a test for a diagnosed condition but spent the rest of the time bleating about smears when I’d already opted out! We’ll all those years on I’m still here! I put off finding. A GP here in Wales , I’ll do it this week. Let’s hope I find one who won’t insist I have screening. I’ll just walk away from any who do.

  37. Hi everyone,
    An interesting link came up on my twitter feed this morning about womens attitude to extending cervical screening intervals to five years. It looks like a lot are in favour of it. Does anyone know if the 5 year aproach is going to be adopted in England like it has in Scotland and Wales?


  38. Hi again Everyone,
    Sorry to post on here again, but this came up on my Youtube feed this morning:

    This lady has been bamboozled into having a smear test she seems to think she “has to have it” and the nurse told her that if she has HPV she has it for life!. This is nothing short of brainwashing.

    Also @adawells thanks for sending the link over it was interesting to look at. Surley if screening is moved to every 5 years this is going to hit GP Surgeries in the pockets for a while, also the Rottweillers on reception will have nobody to chase as well.


    • This video is actually quite troubling, especially when she says “have to have all these things done.” Did she think she had to have the test? Was it presented as compulsory? Perhaps it’s just her choice of words but she seems to resent it.

      Interesting she says she’s 27 and it’s her first. I wonder if she didn’t go and got bullied into it while there for something else?

      I need to join a GP surgery after moving. It’s been languishing at the bottom of my to-do list for months but I just can’t face it as I know the letters etc will start up. Obviously I’ll opt out but still, a potential battle I don’t have the headspace for.

  39. Caroline same! After a month in Wales I’ve still not registered anywhere for a. GP! If I’m seriously sick someone will have to see me as an emergency! And to be honest I want as little medical intervention as possible in all aspects of my life; I would refuse statins for example.
    The poor lady in the video? They put the hard sell on her?! Having your womb numbed and the lining checked? Hysteroscopy? I got the impression she felt as I did at smears , violated! She kept saying she had enough. I really hope she’s ok and doesn’t get dragged back

  40. Hey all hate to change the subject here but has anyone else tried ordering birth control through lemonade health? i actually just noticed the other day that lemonade health actually lets you order thyroid pills for hypothyroid. Sure wish i knew that back in April when i was looking for a new doctor! Also i use nurx currently but they are so busy with messages, it seems to be annoying. doesn’t help that i am thinking about switching to the ring tho!

  41. Hi ladies,
    There is a programme on channel 5 this week called women’s health breaking the taboos hosted by cherry healey and it is to do with following a patient who undergoes a hysterectomy from being diagnosed to her admission into hospital and during the actual operation and then afterwards her recovery and emotional recovery, some may find this interesting others may just throw up, probably not an ideal watch for the squeamish but it might give a little insight to others.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I anticipate that they will make it look like a live smear, ie. “nothing to worry about”, “no pain”, “you probably don’t even need pain relief”, “why are you making a fuss”?

  42. Daily fail from 6 days ago ladies, I just saw it now, they seem to b saying giving the HPV jab to those who have pre cancerous cells could prevent it developing into full blown cancer! I’ll pass on all aspects of cervix “care” still thanks! And I’m still not registered anywhere yet in Wales!!

    • Hey Kat! That’s the idea. While I am way more cautious than I used to be re vaccines, this one I’d, after doing more research, likely validate.
      When I first found this place, many years ago, there was a pharmacy company testing an anti viral against HIV positive women in Africa with CC. The med worked so well that it not only killed HPV but reversed the cancer.
      If I found myself HPV+ I’d do the vaccine. Chances are the strain causing the problem will be targeted which can also be verified. Let the body kill it, and keep your vagina in one piece.
      Keep the doctors with their voodoo tools, cut, fry, or zap machines away from me.

      • i’m the exact same way. when i was diagnosed with HPV, the first thing i did was get the vaccine. although my doctor didn’t really know what she was doing as i had 2 doses of Gardazil, and i believe it should only be one. Since then, i noticed my body fighting it off. its better that way tho so it lets the body kill it. And i agree, keep the voodoo tools, cut,fry or zap machines away from me!

      • Yes, i have. although am only part vaccinated because my doctor gave me 2 gardasils, and it is supposed to be gardasil, HPV 9 and HPV 16. may try to get some from my pharmacy or something.

  43. Don’t take this vaccine. It’s poisonous and may cause problems with getting pregnant. I would suggest taking an interest in the so called ”total biology” or ”German medicine”, which is also called ”Recall Healing.” It DOES work!

    • While i have heard those things about the vaccine, and do think that perhaps it may offset some things, i also feel that it is better to get something, rather than do nothing. I also started taking multivitamins since then, and used those too.

      • You might want to look at alternative media outlets to get real facts and not the Fauci Fallacies Files. Gatestone Group, Pamela Geller, these are starters. Epoch Times magazine another.
        In the 1980s post Idi Amin Uganda had a terrible famine.
        Catholic Charities got involved as did the UN which offered “vaccines”. One of these was tetanus. It takes only 2 shots at most for that. However, CC was curious and had the vax the UN was using tested.
        Because the UN was giving 6 shots. Turns out the UN vax had human embryo cells in it.
        Which effectively sterilized every teen in Uganda who received the vaccine.
        So Pfizer has these embryo cells? Not getting that. If you carefully review the data from Israel (Israel 365 News (medical miracles) you’ll find that each booster provides lesser and lesser protection IF it doesn’t up and kill you instead.
        These Wuhan vaccines are killing healthy people.
        Avoid it.

      • believe me, i only got the vaccine because i want to travel. but never got any boosters. thanks for this info!

  44. Hi ladies, so I decided 2 years ago to never have a smear again and I stand by that, I know this isn’t a forum for reassurance but I just wonder have any of you lovely ladies experienced bleeding after sex, this happened to me 2 years ago and it’s happened again last night, I’m 49 and 100% perimenopause, I have no other symptoms, I do not want to go to the drs as I know they will tell me to have a smear. Anyway any advice on this subject would be amazing.

    • Hi Sherry,
      It’s about time that healthcare professionals got it into their thick skulls that the smear is NOT a diagnostic test and should never be used to investigate symptoms.
      A visual exam might be in order if you continue to have bleeds on a regular basis – light spotting could be caused by a polyp or cervical ectropian. I’m hardly an expert on polyps but I did have an ectropian many years ago which caused spotting after sex. It’s essentially a skin condition triggered by fluctuating hormones and is nothing to worry about.

      • Thank you for your reply, I was diagnosed with a ectropian, I also have a submucosal fibroid and adenomyosis so plenty there that could cause a bleed, my smear tests in the past last one five years ago have always been clear, I’ve been with my husband for 32 years and only ever had one other sexual partner before him, I know cervical cancer is rare but when something like this happens it makes you anxious, I had a really bad bout of bleeding about a year ago bleed non stop for 12 weeks now I only seem to get my periods every 8 to 10 weeks, unfortunately I suffer with health anxiety so this hasn’t helped, anyway many thanks.

      • Hi again Sherry,
        Perhaps you could buy an HPV self-testing kit if you’re concerned about CC? Just to put your mind at rest. Would also be a good defence against overzealous medics trying to push you into a smear.
        Also, my best friend started suffering with terrible problems with her periods, much like yourself, once she hit her mid forties, and she’s never had any issues before. She got prodded and poked within an inch of her life and they found nothing to explain it. Eventually they suggested an IUD and it seems to have worked, so obviously it was all hormone related.

      • How did she like the hell of that?
        Does the IUD have bioidentical HRT?
        Look this up.
        IUB; it’s out of Israel and it’s new.

  45. Hi there and thanks for your reply, I also had every test done under the sun about 4 years ago that’s when I found out I had a fibroid, I don’t bleed much these days and up until the other day haven’t had a problem with bleeding after sex, I do wonder if I may be due on in the next few days, I’ve almost convinced myself that I have cc. I literally can’t stop worrying. Thanks again for replying.

  46. Morning ladies, so I’ve been going through some of the post on here and I read somewhere that if you don’t smoke, have only had a few partners and do not have a family history of cc then you chances of getting cc is 1 in 2 million, wow is this true, if that’s the case of got more chance of winning the lottery and that’s never going to happen. So I think I will put this recent slight bleed down to dryness, my fibroid or my cervical ectropian and just stop fretting.

    • When you are perimeno, you get massive surges in oestrogen as your body tries to get you to ovulate, and no progesterone until you do ovulate. You can bleed from oestrogen withdrawal when your levels go down but it can be intermittent and not complete. Progesterone changes your lining so when you ovulate then get a proper period, it goes woosh.

      High oestrogen levels change the cervix (to make fertilisation more likely) and this will affect the ectropion.

      It is def worth testing for HPV if it will put your mind at rest, and also keeping a diary of your cycle signs and symptoms in the hope of keeping track of what is going on. Natural family planning websites can be useful for the extra symptoms you never realised like position of cervix.

      • Worth testing for HPV? What are you talking about? Another Pap Scrape?
        The only testing for HPV that’s worth the effort is the self testing like the Delphi Screener.
        I relied on the Trovagene Urine HPV Test in 2012; which has been D/C.

    • Thanks Sherry. Glad to help. Any luck in finding the Delphi Screener?
      When it comes to HPV, you can get an antiviral like acyclovir. It’s very good at stopping herpes virus’.
      HPV is caused most by poor hygiene, and uncircumcised penis’.

  47. Thank you for your reply, I also spotting last Saturday for no reason, just went to the loo and wiped twice and had spotted, also I’ve been going 8 to 10 weeks between periods, also sorry if this is tmi but when my husband and myself had sex the other night we literally went straight into it, no build up or anything so maybe I wasn’t ready, the trouble is this has scared me to have sex again it case it happens again, also I have a swollen gland in my right boob, which has happened a few times before and I also feel like I’m due on, but nothing.

    • It does sound like you have hormonal stuff going on. I don’t know if period apps are any good? – they might not be subtle enough, but easier than diary/charts.

      • I would be wary of period tracker apps because we don’t know who the owners of the app are sharing their information with.

  48. I forgot to say I wold test for gov but with my health anxiety if it came back positive my anxiety would go through the roof and if it’s positive I would have to have a smear and I really don’t want one of those ever again they literally feel me with pure dread and fear.

  49. Hi ladies, are there any good websites out there that could educate me and put my mind at rest, I really do not want to talk to any drs as I know they will try to send me for test and I really can’t go through this again. I’ve had one episode of spotting after sex in 2 and a half years and it was 6 hours after, when you go on mumsnet or forums like no more panic they just tell you you must get bleeding after sex checked out, and I know you ladies are a lot more knowledgeable about cc and smears anyway thank you.

  50. Hi cat and mouse, thank you for the reply you really have helped put my mind at ease, I’m sick of medical professionals and the media making out that cc is common when clearly it’s not, thanks again.

  51. Hi ladies,
    I haven’t been on for a while things have just been manic,
    we have been recalled to the office , so no more working from home, which makes for quite long hours some day’s.
    Four of us were sent on a training course two ladies in their mid fifties and me and a guy a year older than me, this is where my dilemma begins the two other ladies were also friends out of work and preferred each other’s company so this left myself and the other guy to tag along together and found that we got along quite well, on the last night at the hotel we went for some dinner and a couple of drinks and then he escorted me back to my room at the hotel ( not what your thinking ) he had been the perfect gentleman all week, pulling out my chair at the restaurant ,opening doors , compliments, on my appearance
    ladies this guy was completely trained, we got home on Friday afternoon. Saturday morning there was a buzz from the intercom “ delivery” a lovely bunch of flowers the card with it read I enjoyed our time together this week maybe we can go out again now we are home, we have seen each other a couple of times since and everything seems ok at the minute, this is my dilemma about a month ago I sent for a hpv self test and the results came back totally clear, the way things are progressing with Mike
    and starting to feel those old yearning ‘s again how the hell do you say to someone that you’d like them to take a test before you actually go further without sounding like a nut or offending them help.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules, not sure how long you have been together, but it is normal for many couples to insist for STI checks before getting involved. Prob is, I don’t know if there’s a HPV test available for men.

      However, you could always insist on barrier contraception, even if you do end up taking birth control.

    • Hi ladies,
      The devious bast!!!!s have tried to protect themselves from the GDPR laws by introducing “section 251”to get around the law , but I would definitely complain and make an issue of this, tell them that you regard this as harassment it might make them think twice in the future, and thanks for the advice AQ , I must of had a blond moment, never thought about doubling up on contraception.
      Hugs Jules x.

      • Hi Jules,

        My understanding is that Section 251 was brought in before GDPR and was done so as an attempt to avoid the stipulations on right to private life under Article 8 of the HRA.

        S251 hasn’t been tested in the courts as far as I am aware and is unrelated to GDPR.

        GDPR was introduced in May 2018.

  52. Daily fail today, almost one million fewer women have had a smear so far th is year than last year and about 600,000 fewer women showed up for breast screening. The usual, oh they’re still dealing with covid and chase it up if your overdue!! Groan

    • this is amazing news to hear! so glad that screening is down for both mammograms and smears. proves that people are questioning those exams, and put it off for that reason. bet the supporters of this exam would be fuming though.

      • Same here, I’m glad screening numbers are down.

        Screening is a choice, and women should know all the facts. They should never be forced into testing or being part of the program, ‘just because’, that’s wrong.

        I hope the numbers are down because women are making an informed choice not to screen.

      • Definetely and agree! Screening is a choice, and i’m glad that i made the choice to not screen for myself because of the false positive rates, and not to mention the barbaric ways of follow ups. Coloscopies, lazers, radiation, smh. It is a choice no matter what. i hope the numbers are down for that reason too. i know NURX (which sells birth control) was like so busy with messages that it took a while for them to reply to me- probably others are doing the same tho, getting their birth control elsewhere.

      • I think women are generally fed up of hearing about them, especially after a pandemic where we were essentially told they were no longer “essential” during that period, but somehow are back “in vogue” now.

        I think many women are apathetic towards them now.

        Even I used to get riled up with these campaigns, but now I just can’t be bothered reading about them.

  53. FFS not again. Getting sick amd tired of this publicity seeking nonsense.

    Glad to see screening is down by about 1 million.

    No doubt, that has got the the Daily Failers frothing at the mouth.

    • I sense that Rob Music’s departure from Jo’s Trust has had a lot to do with the toning down of these campaigns. I’m sure he had his journalism contacts all over the place willing to give him news space at any occasion they were short. These campaigns aren’t what they used to be, or is it just me who has switched off from the mainstream media?

      • They’ve definitely become more low-key, and I did notice some mention of choice in some of Jo’s Trust content.

        They’re still beating the drum about attendance of course and claiming women are embarrassed but the outright shame, belittle and bully campaign days seem to be behind us, for now anyway.

      • Music to my ears (no pun intended 😁).

        I wonder if their funding has been reduced?

      • hahahaha.

        It actually says on the Jo’s Tosh website covid was shattering to them, and they lost a lot of income. I imagine things have definitely been scaled back.

      • Caroline – Ha! I knew it! Their response is all too predictable!

        Glad it has been reduced and hope government agencies see sense not to grant any more funding to an organisation that essentially demeans women, especially during a cost of living crisis.

      • It certainly does seem that they’ve been less active since he left. And there also the fact that they’ve now publicly proclaimed themselves anti-bullying champions (oh, the irony!) and have to be more careful about the type of campaigns they’re running these days.
        As for them being ‘shattered’ by Covid – no, not really.
        They made 1.9 million in the 2019-2020 period, their highest ever income, and the following year that income dropped to 1.6 million. So I guess ‘shattering’ means they were expecting a much bigger paycheck and they found, due to the demands of all the women terrified by the screening programme being put on hold, that they actually had to do some work instead of blowing the majority of their funds on PR stunts like they usually do.
        The only thing that’s happened in the last few years is the abolition of the tampon tax and the money they received from it. Other than that, they seemed to be doing just fine. After all, they made more money last year than during the 2017-2018 period (1.5 million) and I don’t recall them begging their deluded followers on social media for £12 donations back then.

        Also, I just found out that one of their donors is a leading manufacturer of speculums – no wonder these pink pirates are keeping quiet about self-testing.

      • Could be that with the cost of living crisis and recent pay rises (are their staff subject to that, or just public services), they may now be a bit stretched on the ground as an organisation.

        And no, £300k deficit is not a great loss however it may exacerbate things like staffing costs, overheads, running office costs (if they have one) such as maintenance and electricity.

        This is the only reason I can see for tgeir reduced levels of activity.

        Who’s their CEO?

  54. Jos Tosh! Luv it! I was just looking there, the usual but I laughed over one post, woman with cell changes, consulted Dr Google and was terrified what she read. The advice from other Jos toshers was, don’t upset yourself on Google just get your advice from this forum here!! Not sure what’s worse ! At least on google there’s a chance she’d find alternative info, maybe even this site….

    • AQ, their CEO is a woman named Samantha Dixon. In her first blog post she talks about her ‘near miss’ after her first test so she’s either blissfully ignorant, or she’s just as bad as her predecessor.

  55. Evening ladies, so today I got my reminder that I was due a smear by text message, that went straight in the bin ffs,I cannot and will not go through the stress and embarrassment of another smear, when I was younger I used to think my mum and auntie were irresponsible for not attending screening now I 100%get it, I did not understand how rare cervical cancer was and how inaccurate the smear test is, I also will refuse mammograms as I have read how over diagnosed cancer is and how the radiation from mammograms can cause cancer.I use to find the stress of waiting for the results made me so Ill with anxiety, so I decided that it’s not worth the stress .

    • Sherry – By text message?! Whoah, that would REALLY p1ss me off (not that it takes much these days lol 😅).

      Not sure what hapoens if you ask them to stop texting you. Do they have to oblige? Or can they say, “well, seeing as you have given us your mobile number…”

      You could always try threatening them with a GDPR complaint if they don’t stop sending those idious texts.

      They hate that because if they are found to be in breach of GDPR by the commissioner, they could receive a hefty fine 👍😁

      • Under GDPR, you can withdraw consent for use of your data at any time. Depending on whether it was the screening body or your GP, you could try writing to them and withdrawing consent for them to use your data for this purpose.

        Whether they actually do it is another question, but my understanding is they’re bound by GDPR just like pretty much everyone else.

  56. Evening ladies, so
    I work with a woman who is 37 and for the last 10 years she has trotted of to her drs because she has been told that she has abnormal cells on her cervix, she has had her cells burnt off and yearly smear tests for 10 years and apparently 7 out of 8 of her friends have had the same problem, and today she went for another test at the hospital and they have told her she needs more cells taken off but have not given her reason why, wtf do women settle for this shit, so now she has a smear on Friday and a follow up colonoscopy for something she is not aware of I would want to know why.

    • It’s baffling to me as well.

      I’d want to know exactly what was happening, why and the realistic outcome for doing nothing at all. There is a bizarre culture of just doing what you’re told when a medical professional speaks. Why do people not ask questions and do their own research? I’m not talking about reading Facebook. I mean credible research. It’s out there if you look for it.

      I think this was highlighted recently with the covid vaccine. I knew my risk of serious illness is about 0.04% so I declined. I respect anyone whose circumstances are different. However the idea I’d just line up because I was told to didn’t sit right with me at all.

      • Even stranger, if she would be going in for a consultation for an operation, she would be told the pros, cons, risks of doing nothing v something, success rate and prognosis.

        Yet, it would not even occur to most women to ask these things with regards to screening.

        I find it especially surprising in this case because she has had so many procedures, and I bet they have been incredibly painful for her, because they are loathe to use pain relief on women.

        Yet, she goes without question? Very strange.

      • I agree. How women can blindly accept medical orders baffles me.

        I question everything, and thank god I do because at least half of what has been told/diagnosed/done to me by medical professionals (cough, cough) has been wrong – as I found out when I requested a copy of my medical records. The lies and misdiagnosis on there were shocking. They say all sorts of sweet innocent things to your face but what they REALLY think of you is in the records.

        We are ‘trained’ to always ‘consult your doctor’. I’ve trained myself to NOT run to a doctor. LOL

        Aren’t we supposed to be ‘woke’ to bullshit now?

  57. I’m sitting here rolling my eyes about an article in the Liverpool Echo. Now it seems a Miss GB contestant is urging us all to go for our smear test. She’s an ambassador for cervical health via the Miss GB thing. And put her test off but then decided it was hypocritical to delay as she was an ambassador, so she went and had “worrying “ results. Obviously she’s so grateful it was found in time and is now “raising “ awareness

  58. Hi there! All so, another update about me: My current PCP, is so respectful as far as what i want to do, thank goodness. i messaged on the portal asking about the annual bloodwork and the annual physical. i said that i didn’t want to take my clothes off because of bad experiences in the past. she said that i don’t have to worry about it, and can keep my clothes on at all times. Thank goodness. I also know what they are testing for in the bloodwork, so am happy as well. Know that other pcps are probably not like this, but am glad it worked out in my favor. But you know, like why do doctors get bothered if one mentions about being modest and leaving the clothes on? Like for instance, in 2019, i got a chest xray, and they didn’t even let me wear a bralette. Went to the heart doctor too in 2019, they didn’t let me wear a bralette during the ultrasound (EKG)… like if the patient is more comfortable, and it doesn’t interfere with it- which i researched that it didn’t.. why not just comply to the request?

    • I’m so glad your new PCP is respectful! If you don’t mind I would like to borrow your phrasing about keeping clothes on due to bad experiences in the past. It’s much better than what I usually do which is to sheepishly mention wanting to keep my clothes on.

      • Yeah me too! and Sure you can use my phrasing about keeping my clothes on due to bad experiences. I find this explanation a bit more suitable because, well no doctor should make one feel bad. i always thought that doctors should make one feel as comfortable as possible.

  59. Also, just an FYI, there’s this festival in NYC called the international womens day festival. They have films out for people about women. One of this, is a movie called At Your Cervix, which is a movie about people undergoing unrelated medical procedures and then waking up from the surgery and finding that they have been practiced unconsented pelvic exams on. The movie is only available in NY right now, but i am happy that word gets out about these things that happen. It is a very truamatizing experience, and the more people know about consent, the better!

    • It’s true. I’ve told you about my husband’s ex-best friend who’s an anesthesiologist in Fairfax VA.
      He has allowed this for years.
      He gets off on it.
      Hope it happens to his wife and daughters.
      Or to him.

      • that’s crazy! I mean the whole arguement about that is tho that it helps medical students practice, although in the preview some were actually saying that things like that are not a way to practice, and the students should be given other ways to practice. crazy how people get off on it… are they even realizing that because one has allowed unconsented exams happen that now patients will distrust their doctors- no matter what kind of doctor it is? Crazy! just thought i’d share about that documentary because i think it is important for people to know, and hopefully it makes a discussion about consent and doctors.

      • This practice is odious. No wonder most of the public has no idea it goes on. The thing that always gets me about the “student practice” excuse is that it’s one person using a patient’s genitals, without their consent or even knowledge, to meet their goals. Nothing could be more objectifying. The unconscious patient becomes a literal object for the use of others. The objectification is so complete that the patient isn’t even considered worthy of being told it happened since after all, objects are there to be used, not consulted.

      • Consider this. The pervs of yesteryear train tomorrow’s would be pervs.
        That’s how this mental disorder in doctors’ disease propagates.
        Elitists who expect they can treat patients as personal whores.
        Med School teaches them this; their internship reinforces it.
        Like they say, “Yes doctor.”

    • I couldn’t even finish reading it. That’s one of the most dramatic and manipulative pieces I’ve ever read on the topic.

  60. Just had an alert from what do you know , question was if the screening committee plan on introducing a prostate screening programme, like breast and cervical screening programme, and the reply was typically, test not accurate enough and there’s no way of knowing which men need treatment or just monitoring! I’m guessing it’s business as usual at the colposcopy clinic…..

    • Here we go again ladies! Daily fail a couple days ago, didnt read all of it as I’m full of sinus infection, but a new test could predict 4 female cancers’ cervical breast uterine, 4 years before it manifests , BUT you’ll still “need” a smear test as that’s how it’s taken! But hey it means you’ll no longer “need” mammograms so whoopy doo…!

      • Hi Kat Rehman, I saw this too and just rolled my eyes. They never give up….. I certainly wont be going for this or any other smear test in the future.


      • Here’s what’s interesting about this nonsense.
        You all know about me and the urine based hpv test.
        If in 2012 they could determine via urine if you have hpv, then same applies even moreso now to other types of cancer.
        All this shit floats around in your blood.
        So if they can detect dna or whatever in your cervix related to these cancers then they can do same just by using a routine blood sample too.
        But the douche bags must find a way to keep fishing around in vaginas.
        That’s the whole point. Not the test mind you but as we all know another reason to keep us in stirrups.
        I won’t be having this BS.

      • I skimmed it, and it mentions predicting risk of other cancers by looking at the smear sample.

        So how many women are going to be subjected to years of anxiety and surveillance because they’re deemed at risk?

        Nothing wrong with wanting to prevent serious illness but this weird obsession with medical surveillance for women is just plain absurd.

  61. Hey all,
    So this is controversial no matter what side you are on with the Pap smear, whether you want it or not, however it annoys me to no end that no gyno that i’ve been to wants to follow the current guidelines of getting a pap every 3-5 years. I got a book on health and in here it states that 21-29 can choose between 3-5 years, published recently too… I don’t really want any pap smears but am just saying: between feeling uncomfortable and downright raped, at least if one can choose should one want a pap, it would be better. i’m glad tho that i haven’t been to a gyno in like 2 years.

    • They lose tons of money if they recommend the current 3-5 year interval to patients. They know that healthy women who aren’t pregnant are unlikely to attend yearly if the annual pap isn’t demanded. That’s why women’s health articles that are honest about the new guidelines make a huge fuss about how vital the yearly pelvic exam is, to keep women going at least once a year. We also know now that pelvic exams are a joke and likely to be unhelpful even when symptoms are present but they will never be honest about it.

      • I’m sure they do lose tons of money if they recommend the current 3-5 year interval, but if a patient requests it? why not comply? it’s really stupid, and like because of the false positives of the pelvic exam, you’d think they be honest with you? jeez, no wonder why i don’t trust doctors, and i’m glad that i haven’t gone.

      • Yeah they need to comply with totally reasonable requests like wanting to do a pap every 3-5 years. Not to do so seems like it would be malpractice.

    • A gynecologist gave my gma a pap knowing she had – had a full hysterectomy years ago for benign reasons. No Cervix. I’m thinking it doesn’t Matter the reason for the visit. Everyone gets a automatic Pap smear. Without thought or common sense. She went there for a yeast infection.

      • That’s terrible. It’s abusive how they use our bodies to meet their screening targets. She deserved proper care for the infection.

  62. Hi ladies,
    I haven’t been around for a while as I’ve been so busy, just thought I’d give you the heads up as to when the next screening campaign kicks off, it starts on the 17-23 jan 23 , something to look forward to NOT.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules, thanks for the heads up on this, I look forward to seeing those cringeworthy adverts in between corrie again. Wonder how they are going to brainwash people in this next campaign.


  63. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4n2ezwepyko

    It’s really sad that this woman has died but that’s how badly this terrible test works. You take a test in 2011 and get the all clear, because the image on the screen has to be interpreted subjectively by the human screener. You get another test 3 years later in 2014 on normal recall and the test shows cancer. They go back and retrieve the 2011 slide and after looking at it again and again, think it might have been classed as a positive sfter all.

    It’s always someones fault and someone making a mistake – the screener, the doctor, the programme or the company processing the results, but never because this lousy, innaccurate, 1930’s test done by a guy on his wife and her friends is of limited value and dorsn’t work. An opportunity to teach the public about the shortcomings and limitations of the test would see a dip in uptake and loss of belief in the system. So we get these endless news stories of how someone is to blame, never that the test itself is to blame.

    • We just purchased something from HSN in USA. So I get to chatting with the employee taking my order. She’s a working mother of a 7yr old going to school as well to get her MS in Nursing.
      Pap scrape came up. Everything we told her she verified. Because she’s lived it. Colposcopy hell. Being told cancer, death, or else, etc. She’s had LEEP, knows she cannot get pregnant again, her sex life is shot, her periods are worse, and on top of that she still had to get cryosurgery on top of that.
      She said she was blown away. One year negative; next year cancer.
      Another statistic.

      • Thank god i didn’t get my colposcopy. like i feel all the ob/gyns want to do is yell at you saying it’s cancer(possibly lying) even to most cervical cell changes do go away on their own. and doctors don’t care to tell you the negative effects of the colposcopy.

  64. Just when you thought it might be safe to make a Dr’s appointment:

    Hi everyone, this came up on my Youtube feed earlier this morning. I havent watched all of it but will skip through it. After watching the first 10 minutes its hard to believe how self rightous the woman presenting is and how she wants to delve into peoples private lives. Thank god I have opted out of the cervical screening program:


    • At just 3 minutes in I’ve heard more than I can bear. There’s no getting rid of these people is there – both retired but these vagina missionaries brought back to do their stuff in the NHS again. They need kicking out for good and NHS funding spent on treating the sick, not on cells of unknown significance. It’s the same old blind facts that the screening programme is wholly responsible for the fall in cases, when we know cases of this disease have declined dramatically by themselves over the years. Is there really 2 hours of this woman droning on? Sometimes I feel it’s a blessing that the NHS can’t get the staff.

    • At the 5:50 minute mark the slide has a shocking bullet point. I had to read it 3 times to be sure I was reading it correctly. It says “For me, educating the patient is like good sex, the ‘foreplay’ before the smear, helping women relax, gain confidence in a knowledgeable practitioner.” She is making a direct comparison between the act of sex and taking a smear test. How is this acceptable?

      There is no acknowledgement that some women will never find this test to be acceptable due to its invasive nature. Instead the boundaries these women exert are seen as barriers to (literally) penetrate. This is the cotton ceiling argument framed in a medical context. There’s an argument made in the presentation that if the woman has a problem with the smear she’s likely to have a problem in her sex life or with her self image. Women are never allowed to say no. If we say no it’s because something is wrong with us.

      Last point I’ll make and then I need to stop watching but go to 36:30. She describes the vagina as being “like an empty toilet roll” and says it’s hollow and that “you can’t do any damage” (she means with the speculum). Absolutely heartbreaking to hear our female bodies being talked about with this blatant disregard and complete lack of respect. I am so sorry for all the women that had to hear this woman talk about their bodies in this degrading way. The vagina, as we know, is not hollow, the walls lay close to each other and of course the tissues can be damaged. After my first forced smear at age 18 I had pain for a week.

      • Rose two, thats heartbreaking, one wonders how much damage both physical and mental that atrocity of a “nurse” has done to women going through her “care”, how many sex lives she has disrupted, words fail me

      • Spread, so to speak literally, the word of this as much as you can.
        It’s called AYC. At Your Cervix.
        http://www.atyourcervix.com. And http://www.atyourcervixmovie.com
        This is a documentary film about the abuses occurring in hospitals today with med students performing unconscious pelvic exams.
        Please go onto every site you can find, including those here, and advertise this.
        Let me know what you think.

      • Cat&Mouse, the flim looks incredible. When I talk to people about this issue they usually respond with either disbelief or downplay it. It’s all the same responses “the woman doesn’t even know, it’s not hurting her” etc. I’ve realized that someone first has to have an understanding of basic rights and autonomy and if they don’t have that they’ll never care. Women of course virtually all understand since most women have been sexually abused in some way. The problem seems to be that many of them cope by either claiming it wasn’t abuse, or it didn’t hurt them that badly, or the classic “it was just medical” or whatever. So now we have a huge percentage of women that can’t engage with their own trauma, medical or otherwise, long enough to understand what was done to them.

      • That “At Your Cervix” movie is shocking!

        If exactly the same thing happened outside hospital, it would be a mass rape. A grievous criminal offence with a very long imprisonment. But within hospital walls it is a normal practice. Any wonder I don’t trust medical profession and stay away from them as much as possible.

        To add insult to injury, we are forced to pay so much in taxes to finance the medical system. In addition to that, many Australians are bullied by the state into buying private health insurance (which then hackers break into and steal private information of millions of people). And after all that, people are raped and treated like training dummies.
        Total disgrace!

    • I have a YT account and left a comment on that video. We’ll see how long it stays up! Doubt these arrogant hags would take any of it on board but hopefully if any patients stumble across it it might make them think.

    • I have a YT channel and left a comment on this awful video. Doubt any of my points it will get through to these arrogant hags but hopefully if any patients stumble across this nonsense it might make them think.

      • Kate I just went to the video and it looks like they took your comment down already. It says “1 comment” but nothing is there. Since they won’t listen to us I guess they’ll instead watch as screening rates continue to fall and then blame it on us. I wish they would listen to what we’re saying.

      • Hi Rose, yes I expected they’d do that. Oh well.

        This was my comment – brace yourself, it’s long one!

        ‘There is so much wrong with this I don’t even know where to start. But just a few points.
        Screening has RISKS – false negatives, false positives, overdiagnosis and overtreatment – and as such patients have every right to decline the ‘offer’ of a test, for any reason at all. Screening NOT an obligation, it is a personal choice, and one which should be respected by the practitioner. Screening can do more harm than good and patient autonomy is paramount, not screening targets. I doubt many of these ‘nervous’ patients have made an informed choice, considering that Gill seems to have such a low opinion of those who do not wish to test.
        And as for the ‘Few facts’…
        1) Cervical screening cannot prevent ALL women (who screen) from developing cancer – even with the addition of HPV testing, cytology is an imperfect science and false negatives will still occur. Any practitioners who do not understand the limitations of the test should not be allowed to carry them out, as it is their responsibility to gain informed consent from the patient – how can the patient be properly informed if the information they’re given by their practitioner is false?
        2) The incidence rates of cervical cancers began to decline in the 1950’s, long before the test was introduced here in Britain – thus is is only PARTLY responsible for the decline in incidence/deaths. Claiming the programme is entirely responsible for the decline is disingenuous to say the least.

        Thank goodness we now have self-testing for HPV and more women are choosing to avoid the invasive procedure, along with these arrogant, patronising harridans who view those who do not wish to test as silly little girls who don’t know what’s good for them.
        If I were one of these ‘nervous’ women with an upcoming appointment at this clinic, I’d cancel after seeing this video – hearing a so-called expert comparing her cosy little pre-smear chat to foreplay, and comparing my vagina to a toilet roll is thoroughly insulting.’

        Plenty of other points I should have made, but I was too annoyed to think straight.
        I shall comment again just to let them know that the women who’ve seen the video were not impressed.

  65. Single mums won’t have smears and they don’t understand the problem? So they’re to blame? Same old. I’m afraid I gave up on it as I felt my blood pressure go up…?! Like Jess, I’m staying away

  66. She decided to turn her attitude around and try and find out the problems? Big of her! Women come to her with their “little bits, to discuss such as incontinence? Most women take it in their stride , they have sex, they understand the importance of th e test?! They had babies, but women with problems with the smear might need counselling?
    I’m not an abuse survivor. I’ve had sex and a baby and I don’t need counselling. I have decided NO! I am not consenting to them coming anywhere near my vagina and I’m not answering any questions they might ask about my intimate life unless I present with a problem in that line!! Grrrrr

  67. Sorry I’m on a rant! She talks about the importance of observing the woman’s body language. So at my very last smear, I had my face turned to the wall, I was biting my mouth to stop myself screaming in pain and my knuckles were white gripping the sides of the bed. I was saying to her you are hurting me, how much longer? And she said, well if I stop now you’ll just have to come back? Well I completed that last smear but made very sure I never had another….

    • Hi Kat Rehman
      The patronising cow in that video says that there should be no more than two attempts to insert the speculum before giving up. I soooo wish she would call me to try and persuade me to opt back into the screening programme. I would recalibrate her default settings within six sentances.

      • Hi jess,
        This vid had myself and Annette in stitches, it’s pretty hard to take it seriously with that coven of condescending witches babbling on and on, with half a bottle of chianti down our necks we found it bloody hilarious, thanks for posting it.
        Hugs Jules x.

    • Two attempts? I had the largest size speculum rammed into me when I resisted as my appointment was for something else. I’d got an unstitched 2nd degree tear from giving birth 6 weeks before and was in excruciating pain, but, hey, they’ve gotta hit their targets to get those cash bonuses. Utter scumbags.

  68. Hi ladies,
    After careful consideration I might just come up with the reason as to all of their endless barrages of campaigns and their propaganda
    agenda, it’s not to convince us at all, it’s to convince themselves, the medical profession have access to both sides of the coin both the pro’s and the cons of the
    test they know of the drawbacks and inaccuracies of testing, but they are given targets to achieve and therefore only promote the positive
    (if there are any) side of it , all of the garbage they come out with simply starts from the top and filters down to the operatives that target us , hence all of the constant pressure from the doctor, nurse, charity’s, and even some cases of receptionists,
    they disregard the negative side of testing to try and keep the uptake of numbers attending, but as women become more aware of the facts and realise that one of the most powerful words in the dictionary is NO!.
    the reason they try to be so pushy is to simply justify themselves .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules, I’m not sure they’re all that well informed TBH. Studies have shown that doctors don’t understand the complexities of screening, and I doubt many of the nurses do.
      There’s also the fact that a great many medics may suffer from saviour complex and even when they know full damned well the shizzle they promote does more harm than good, they ignore the harms because concentrating on the benefits gives them an ego boost. And if dear old Gill in that video is anything to go by, some of them have one hell of an ego.
      And when patients suffer problems after these awful procedures, it’s all in our heads, of course. Far too easy to ignore the harms because there is zero accountability for overdiagnosis/overtreatment.

  69. Jules so true! I’ve even seen on mumsnet now, it’s sinking in that they can self test for £50 from Superdrug, that it’s a swab you stick up your self no speculum required, and it tests foe HPV the same as the invasive smear the nurse does. More and more are saying they will do the home test. The confusion now seems to be does HPV lie dormant and how does that work?,I’ve even seen a few saying: hubby n I only ever been with each other so I have no HPV ris so I’m not testing. Those who had ab normal cells in thr past aren’t happy though……

  70. Just seen a daily fail article from a few days ago, only 7 in 10 eligible women had smears last year, it’s not coming up since the pandemic, probably another awareness campaign on the way!! Remind me, what’s a smear test?? I really don’t know lol…..

  71. https://digital.nhs.uk/services/screening-services/national-cervical-screening/new-cervical-screening-management-system

    Been keeping an eye on when the screening interval in England will follow Scotland and Wales and extend the screening interval to 5 years for everybody under 50. It’s still a 3 year interval in England and will change when the new IT system is rolled out. In March 2022, it says here that exact dates will be released in the coming months, but we’re still waiting.

    • Interesting reading adawells I just hope that all of us that opted out remain as opted out and dont get auto enrolled back in. Hopefully the 5 year recall will be rolled out stealthily so that it doesnt cause mass panic and hysteria from the vagina evangalists.

  72. Jess I still haven’t registered with a GP here in Wales! Partly bcoz of worries about hassle to screen! With cervical I think I’ll have to opt out again(and will do so)
    With breast I think they send a letter of you are opted out, but you don’t have to reply, and they can’t send you an “invitation “ to mammograms unless you request to opt in or have a one off screen. I won’t be having mammograms.
    Bowel, the shit kit I think starts at 58 in Wales, I am 58 but that will be going in the bin!!

  73. But under data protection isn’t it illegal for them to hassle you all if you already opted out and didn’t, as I did, move out of England?

  74. Hi kat,
    I’m not sure if you opt of screening in England it covers you for Wales as well, but it’s no big deal to opt out a second time, you mentioned previously that you have moved to Wales to be nearer your daughter , ask her what her doctor is like, it wouldn’t be right to be without general care for the sake of this issue, and I’m sure that they would get the message if you took the same stance you took with your old practice, you will not be going in there alone just remember there are going to be hundreds of us in there with you.
    Hugs Jules x.

  75. Hi ladies,
    Just gone through some stats published in 2020 by a guy called
    Conor Stewart during a report for a company called statista
    in regards to fatalities in cervical cancer here in England.
    Year. fatalities
    2006. 769
    2007. 755
    2008. 760
    2009. 772
    2010. 753
    2011. 781
    2012. 742
    2013. 721
    2014. 726
    2015. 660
    2016. 682
    2017. 674
    2018. 701

    It doesn’t appear to show the
    TREMENDOUS reduction they claim in cervical cancer prevention, with the introduction of the HPV vaccine and constant pressure to screen from the crazed majority, the figures to me look pretty constant, no doubt the powers that be will claim it’s because most of these fatalities were down to women who didn’t take up their offer to screen .
    myself I believe it’s because the test is simply ineffective in some cases and unwanted in most, surely if they were so concerned about this cancer they could have come up with a test over the last 40 years that would be more acceptable and dignified without the intrusion of fingers or instruments in a degrading position undertaken by a complete stranger, but then again probably not because the old way is much more fun.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • So true Jules. Always the fault of non screeners!! Even informed ones such as is who are still alive kicking and free of cervical cancer

  76. Just seen on the bbc website, doctors in I think Finland have been fitting women with coils without their consent . Seemingly to try to reduce the Inuit population. One woman says she had no idea and another says her coil was probably fitted during an abortion she had, again without consent. One was trying to conceive and her friends told her to have a cool for a few months to boost fertility (!) so she went and they found a cool already in place….

    • A few times I’ve come across young female doctors post on social media about how extremely painful it is to have a coil fitted. Usually quoted as being the most painful experience they’ve ever gone through and how utterly shocked they were to realise this is what some women go through. Can’t resist having a smile about that. Especially as your daughter breezed through it so easily.

    • What are your talking about? Fitted with “coils”?
      Are you talking about steel coils threaded up Fallopian tubes? That was recalled in US as failed.

      • Yes, Cat and Mouse, the contraceptive coil. These women were fitted or had one inserted without their permission to try and control the Inuit population. Source of story BBC news website.

      • Kat, Oh my gosh!!! And a few other adjectives too. “Against their will” honestly made both my hubby and my own hair stand on skin. We had looked into this; it was either in Phase 3 or back then just recently approved. I think he found it online similar to how he located Trovagene 10 yrs ago.
        I wasn’t interested but he was; he wants to know everything about everything he can. He thinks when you know it all you can’t learn anything new. I remember him coming in wide eyed and perspiring. He told me there was no f-ing way that should be allowed. Then comes the emergency surgeries detailing how instead of causing scar tissue and encapsulating itself, these coils took on their own lives. They could move outside, cause scar tissue to grow gigantuously, etc, and ultimately most had to be removed via emergency surgery. There were also ectoptic pregnancies so it wasn’t as effective in reality as so called predictions claimed.
        It was a German doctor (yeah, go figure…) who invented this barbaric birth control. Was he screwing around with VW suspension and brainstormed? I mean, looking back at my words, I practically just crapped myself realizing I’m connecting something so Nazioriffic with something so close to my reproductive time—just like so many women back then. I never thought anti-Semitism would return; that shows our schools have degenerated to academic sewage. Also, like then this medical sickness was and still is legal.
        Anyhoo, sorry. I thought this procedure required local anesthesia. Both to cervix and to bilateral proximal nerves (might be wrong) to block uterus as well. I can’t imagine it being down without anesthetic; but in India many men receive vasectomies without lido…(again, go figure). I can’t imagine feeling something metallic eating its way or being forced such.
        We will be looking up this show. Thanks for the heads up. Can’t wait to see which stupid government subjected Natives to lab rat status yet again. The abusers best pray somehow they convince God to offer them Mercy.

  77. Hi Ada,
    The coil was at the top of my list when i was looking for a reliable preventive measure, but after comments on this site decided to look into it further , there are quite a few horror stories one was the BBC morning news reader Naha munchetti who screamed so loud at her “fitting”
    her husband ran from the waiting room into the doctors office and demanded to know what the hell was going on, they are so very fond of using the phrase you may feel a little discomfort, when they should really say at some point it may feel like I’m trying to extract a wisdom tooth via your vagina I think they rehearse looking vacant and saying I’ve never had that reaction before to try and push that reaction back onto the patients .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • As I’ve read, these things may not hurt much going in, or they can hurt like any IUD x10 would hurt like.
      They are designed to cause extreme scar tissue that literally plugs up tubes which in turn causes infertility.
      The inherent problem is comparable to the hard plastic mesh or the hard plastic slings used in pelvic and vaginal surgeries.
      Cadavers never complain of pain nor problems with movement or function.
      When periods occur, prostaglandins cause cramping. Oh as we all know…
      When that happens, it’s like experiencing every scab, every stitch, every incision violently torn open. Our tissues are meant to flex. These things don’t flex.

  78. After many years of being off the register and opting out of contact for screening, (I’m in Australia) I suddenly get a letter today out of the blue telling me to book in for one. I’m SO angry. No contact means no contact, opt out means I’ve opted out. I’ve redone my opt out online, and I’ll be calling them Monday. I’m so upset.

    • Hi Julie,
      I’m just wondering if this is because Australia is now offering self-testing? I seem to remember reading that this is now being offered throughout Australia, and sounds like they’re trying to tempt those who have opted out with the offer of a self-test? Just my guess…

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