Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.

3,294 comments

  1. Hi ladies,
    Yet another gp has been convicted of sexual misconduct
    Dr Krishna Singh, has been found guilty of 54 offences against 48 women and girls in the age group of between 14and 66 over a period of 35 years, which is absolutely horrendous but the most sickening aspect of this is the fact that he was also a police examiner and when a women went to the police after being raped he subjected her to a further assault, his sentence is to be announced next month, I think we ought to run a parallel site where we push for the reintroduction of corporal punishment and then we could watch this bastard swinging on the end of a rope, I simply can’t describe how furious I was after reading about this, why in this day and age are men still involved in female healthcare.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks Jules.

      I think the horrendous thing is how long the offending went on for. I’m sure he was reported very early on by women, and their complaints must have been silenced or ignored.

      I’m going through a horrendous situation myself where I’m being harassed and stalked to the point of considering suicide, and the police won’t believe a word I say.

      I even had a detective tell me I was crazy and needed counselling.

      The last time I went to a police station begging for help, they told me to go away and get lost.

      The last two times I actually called police for help, they never arrived and I had a mental health nurse calling me instead of police assistance.

      I wish I had been born in a time when women are believed and listened to. 😦

  2. Hi Oz,
    When myself and Annette were younger and living at home mom told us a story about an aunt of ours (she’s dead now ) who was plagued by someone who kept making obscene phone calls which went on for months in desperation she told her mom and she took her advice, when the next call came off this guy instead of putting the phone down she said unless you’ve got ten inches and a Mercedes I’m not really interested, that was the last time he called. Her mom was seventy at the time and very prim and proper so we both found this hilarious.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks for the advice Jules, I’ll keep hoping the Police get off their butts and help, but after being abused for so long, I doubt it.

  3. Hi oz,
    I can’t imagine just how unnerving it must be having a stalker, when I was at uni an ex police woman used to come to give self defence classes in one of the communal rooms for any girl who felt the need for it, there are measures that you can take to protect yourself if nobody else will, one that stayed with me is always be aware of your surroundings and if you are walking alone at night is to always hold your keys in the palm of your hand with the longest sticking out between two fingers and keep your hand in your pocket if you are attacked jab the person in the eyes with the key making as much noise as you can. I don’t know about the gun laws in Australia you could always take that route if it was legal, nothing more off putting for a stalker than looking down the barrel of of gun held by your victim.
    Hugs Jules x.

  4. Hi everyone,
    I hope you all had a good Easter, it feels like ages since I last posted on here but work wise its been manic. Quick question for you all, have any of you had a private health assessment? I have been offered one through my Husbands work as he gets high level private medical care and he has added me to it. This isn’t the sort of health check that I would normally consider as most of the tests are covered in the annual CAA medical I have to have for work but being a bit of a gym addict and the fact that the BUPA one offers a full ECG while your pedalling like mad under load on an exercise bike and I am interested in seeing how fit I really am.
    You get the usual health checks as part of a 45 minute consultation at the end with a GP and my husband was offered (and declined) a testicles check, I will be offered “if clinically indicated” a breast exam, pelvic exam, cervical smear, and high vaginal swab. Needless to say I will be declining them and it will be interesting to see how push the GP is. Just wondered if anyone else on here has had one and if it was a positive experience or not..

    Jess.

    • My neighbours have private health insurance as husband got Hodgkin’s Lymphoma about 20 years ago. He’s still going strong. She told me that she accompanied him to his appointments and was approached by some doctor there for a smear test. To this day she regrets agreeing to it as one wasn’t due and it was purely for his own gratification. She told me she felt pressure was put on her, like it may affect her husband’s treatment, and be part of a package, so felt compelled to go along with it. We must have been in our 30’s about this time and the pressure to test was relentless, and there was no social media to find out otherwise. Their NHS GP had failed to diagnose the lymphoma for a long time as he thought her husband was too young for it, so they genuinely feared being put back on this NHS GPs books again and were grateful his company offered private healthcare. She told me she was reluctant to upset the boat in any way and reluctantly went along with the smear test to ensure her husband had the best care. It was disgusting the way they treated women in those days, and I’d hope that’s not the case now, but I’d want to know if refusing these screening tests might in any way affect your care with BUPA.

      • Hi Adawells,
        I will let you know how it goes, i would be shocked if refusing to have a smear test would affect my BUPA care but stranger things have happened (although if I was in the USA I would expect to be coerced into having this during the visit. I will have my assertive pilots head on when I go 🙂

        Jess

      • Hi Adawells,
        It’s a sad situation that somebody felt compelled to undergo
        an unwanted procedure for thinking that it may have consequences that would affect the treatment of someone else near to them , women should have a well rehearsed response to this line of attack by saying that it’s the wrong time of the month or there is a probability of pregnancy or you’ve had a hysterectomy, a rehearsed answer may defend against unwanted attention.
        Hugs Jules x.

  5. Hi Everyone,
    Further to my post last week I still havent got round to booking my health assesment yet. In the meantime this came up on my twitter feed a few days ago. This poor deluded girl seems to have convinced herself that she needed a smear test when she was a virgin. Not only that she has the wrong information:

    https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/smear-test-as-a-virgin

    It looks like it was peer pressure that coerced her into having this vile procedure carried out.

    Jess

    • That story is fake news equal to the Steel Dossier.
      It’s watered down every concern one could have.
      It automatically dismisses any protests, and it humiliates every woman who’s experienced trauma during of these medically condoned rapes.

    • As a person who had this test done when i was a virgin, why? What about False positives, and some doctors may actually biopsy the cervix. poor people are misinformed! mistake honestly.. ugh.

  6. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/real-lives/woman-no-symptoms-given-devastating-23958350

    Still peddling these stories, and seems like they’re getting desperate to find anybody with abnormal cells these days. Sounds like this lady had CIN3 and the “pre-cancerous” cells removed, but she’s calling it cervical cancer with real tumours. However, the colposcopy seems to have miraculously cured her of her “cancer” and she’s now in the clear, with 6 monthly check-ups. With real cancer you’d be in for surgery within the next 2 months. About time they got these stories straight and gave women honest information about this lousy test.

    • *sigh* There have always been thousands of these phoney “cancer survivors” who say they’d be dead had they not found it and cured it when they did, encouraging everyone to have more and more cancer tests. What’s really happening is these are victims of overdiagnosis and overtreatment – they are now cancer-free because they never had cancer – they just had a cancer scare and the ensuing hysteria.

      • Well said Beth, most of these people who have had their lives “saved by a smear” never had cancer in the first place.

        Jess

    • What a hilarious article. Woman has pap, woman gets results that she doesn’t understand and isn’t willing to share for the sake of a published article, woman gets colposcopy and bam, cured of cancer.

      That’s not how any of it works, but it seems to be enough to slap on the internet for all of eternity and use to frighten a few women into getting a pap they might’ve been putting off.

      What’s the real deal behind this article? Did this woman really approach a sketchy looking news outlet in the hopes of sharing her weirdass story? Or was she approached? What on earth is going on here… it’d be straight up funny if it weren’t so frustrating. Gotta rely on ignorance to keep those pap numbers up and quotas met!

  7. Same old same, unfortunately…
    From QnA on
    http://www.contemporaryobgyn.net/view/hpv-answering-your-worried-patientss-questions

    Women’s Question, asked by women who tested positive for HPV:
    “Should my partner be examined?”

    Medical answer:
    The only time you need to examine an HPV-infected patient’s male sexual partner is if he reports clinically visible lesions, such as penile or anal warts. Examination at high magnification with 3% to 5% acetic acid solution often leads to overdiagnosing and overtreating benign HPV-unrelated penile skin conditions with potentially disastrous adverse events.

    So, men, regardless of their HPV status should be spared any tests, discomfort, pain, or -forbid- consequences! They can keep having fun and infecting other women.

    At the same time, it is perfectly acceptable -and relentlessly advised by the medical system- to torture women with scary cancer stories, shove speculums inside their vaginas, scrape their cervixes with abrasive brushes and spatulas, tear off whole chunks of living cervix tissues for biopsies, and cut and burn off huge pieces of cervixes as a “treatment”.

    Perfect equality between genders. Medical business as usual.

    • If you can, find a Youtube video of this test being performed. I’ve looked with no luck. It’s talked about though; which means without actual video of it being done should raise red flags. That’s a sign I always look for. If a demonstration of a procedure is honest, then we’ll see pain etc moderated.
      This test involves inserting a cotton swab inside the urethra. I don’t know how far it gets inserted. Then it’s twisted to remove cells.
      My husband cannot imagine how painful that would be. Especially if there’s a lesion.
      If they wanted, local anesthesia could be injected at base of penis. But that’s an extra procedure and time. And we know how providers are when they have to mediate pain.
      Otherwise you’re absolutely right. The male could have a weaker immune system and never throw the virus. While continuing to infect.
      That’s why we need friendlier, more accurate tests.
      And we know how the medical power nazis be feel about that.

      • Yes, of course we need less painful and more accessible HPV tests, for both genders. What I was pointing out is that painful procedures for men get much more consideration than for women.

        There also should be an option to have an HPV test anonymously. So that a woman, if she wishes, could check her HPV status without having her personal data recorded in various screening databases and medical surveillance registers, and being harassed by countless recalls and reminders.

        Regarding HPV and vinegar solution, HPV doesn’t have a cell. No viruses do. That’s why all viruses have to invade host cells and use the resources and mechanisms of those cells for self-replication. And that’s why DNA changes in the cell instigated by the virus may eventually lead to cancer: because the cell replication mechanism, altered by the virus, no longer works in the interests of the host body. It begins to work in the interests of the virus that “wants” only two things – to spread and to multiply. And that’s exactly what cancer is: uncontrolled, excessive and potentially infinitive multiplication and spread.

        Yes, the vinegar solution can (possibly) damage the cell to the point that its mechanisms can no longer work for the virus. But at the concentration of 3-5% it would only happen to topmost cells, if at all. The virus would most likely survive in the cells underneath anyway. And using a more concentrated solution would be too harmful for the healthy cells, without any proved benefit. So, vinegar is definitely not the cure.

        Luckily, our bodies already have a perfectly designed protection and cure mechanism. It is called the immune system. When functioning properly and not stressed by external factors (including cancer screening and medical scaremongering), it can (and does) efficiently detect and destroy all precancerous and cancerous cells in the body. That’s why most cervical abnormalities go away without any treatment. And when the medical system claims that its screening and treatment program “saved lives”, all it does in most cases is detecting and unnecessarily over-treating the lesions that would have healed on their own anyway. And in doing that, it is causing the affected women enormous amount of stress and pain along the way.

        It is important to remember that our bodies produce various mutated and cancerous cells every day, and our immune system deals perfectly well with the vast majority of them. It’s only when something suddenly causes an excessive number of abnormal cells (such as having sex with an HPV-infected man) and/or has weakened the immune system (such as stress, or smoking, or unhealthy lifestyle), it misses some damaged cell somewhere, which may occasionally turn into cancer later.

    • Question if anyone can help me.
      Doesn’t the 3-5% vinegar solution kill the HPV cells?
      They absorb it differently as it causes them to illuminate under a proper light wavelength.

    • This is where my last gyno failed me, “oh you have HPV Positive results, so you have a chance of developing cervical cancer. He was trying to scare me with the oh you have cancer tactics, when it could not be the case at all. Also my partner had that test done before, he said it was painful. but you know, if it is painful for males, think of us females, super painful with the speculum.

      • How far was the swab pushed down his urethra? How long did it take? Draw blood?

  8. Seem to remember reading somewhere that free HIV tests are available from various machines in clubs and maybe gyms in the UK. They trust people to turn up for treatment if they get a positive result, and I understand that this system is working well. I don’t see why they can’t make HPV swab tests similarly available for people to try. Cut out the screening and provide people with self-test kits if they want it. I strongly suspect it’s got a lot to do with men being trusted and women being treated as imbeciles who need their bodies policed by the gynos.

  9. Nena, that’s such a fair point about biopsies!

    It is incomprehensible that we live in a society that flew to Mars, built the Internet, invented smartphones, and yet is perfectly content with continuing using medieval torture methods in women’s healthcare.

    It is unbelievable that cervix-puncturing tenaculum is still used for holding the cervix in place, and that cervical biopsy forceps are still used for taking samples!

    The modern medicine thinks it’s perfectly fine to sink the claws of those forceps into the cervix tissue, then close them and tear off a huge chunk of meat off the woman’s cervix, usually without any anaesthetic, calling the procedure “a slight discomfort”. What’s most unforgivable is that this barbaric procedure tears off a chink of the underlying cervical stoma with muscles, nerves and blood vessels, which causes a lot of pain and an extensive damage to the cervix, but is absolutely not needed for the purpose of the biopsy and is discarded later in the laboratory, because the histology analysis requires only the thin layer at the top – epithelium.

    And this butchery continues because it is cheaper for the system, and because it is faster and more convenient for the medical profession to keep torturing women like that. By keeping the status quo, they don’t need to rewrite the manuals, don’t need to learn anything new, don’t need to undergo any new training for much more humane methods like strip biopsy. Medical business as usual, indeed!

    • I have been away working for a few days and only just seen this discussion. Working for an airline when we are away on a long haul I often get chatting to the cabin crew when we are checked into the hotel. A number of male cabin crew have had the urethral swab and say it only goes in about 5mm but is incredible painful. Its like a small cotton bud going in without any KY that is then rotated and pulled out. It apparently takes about 3 seconds. The only way a local anaestetic woud work is if it was injected into the head of the penis which I am told would be even more painful. One of the guys said there was a series on channel 4 called sex clinic and it was shown on there and the guy screamed.

      Jess

      • That guy is correct. There are couples whom the male will use a very small and rounded eyedropper to install THC drops inside his urethra. The idea is to be erect, then sort of hold the phallus while the eyedropper goes just beyond the grip. Then the liquid is pushed in, while pressure is held on the bulb so it doesn’t suck out or leak. The endgame is to have wicked sex while hovering on the precipice of a huge orgasm.
        Literally the same is done to dispense lidocaine gel into the male urethra. This is done prior to catheterization and some other procedures.
        The lidocaine would sting some; but I don’t know how much. Similar but weather formulations are used in ejaculation delaying products which are topically applied. I don’t know if those effect women; never encountered them.
        The problem in obtaining a STI specimen is that saline or lido on the q-tip would compromise obtaining a valid sample. As we know that story…
        You’ve heard me talk about the long ago discontinued Trovagene Urine Based HPV test.
        This product was perfect for HPV testing. As urine based, no pain, no muss, no fuss.
        With PCR tech and antibody capture, 93% accuracy.
        Easy to imagine how that would be a game changer.

  10. So i actually have an update regarding me: i finally went to a new PCP, who is very friendly and helpful. got labwork done with my thyroid and it’s all wonky. What’s interesting is that i don’t feel weird at all, and always get accused of not taking my medicine. Which okay may seem that way, but i’ve been taking it every day at 5:00AM. Anyways, told my doctor this and she was nice about it thank god. I scheduled an annual exam for January of next year. My only issue is that i don’t want a pap smear like at all. I did tell the doctor’s assistant who made a note on my chart. because i explained that it hurt me and bla bla bla. but how can i deny an exam that i don’t want?

    • Hi Sunflowergal22, if you dont want a smear test tell the Dr at the time. If he/she wont take no for an answer tell him/her that if they force this on you you will report them to the police for sexual assault.

      Jess

    • Just say no. If they push for a reason, tell them that saying no is sufficient, or you will report them for harassment.

  11. I have been doing a bit of introspection. Some doctors that I have been to in the past have been respectful and takes a straight no for an answer.

    There was one who waited for me to give a reason before going out of the room to ask the nurse something. To this day, I have not found out why.

    They don’t need a reason from you. Just say no, I have made my decision of sound mind. If they do hear a reason, they will argue with you to wear you down until you cannot reasonably refuse. That’s coercion.

    I have finally worked out why I was disturbed. I have received a response from the HCCC but they made it sound like there was no reason for me to be upset.

    • Thanks for the help! i suppose i am just scared because some may not want no for an answer. but i know what is good for my body. My issue is that i have been disrupted so many times in the past by what i want to put in my body and whatnot.

  12. Hi ladies,
    Sorry I haven’t been around for a while, but I’ve been insanely busy. I’ve seen a couple of unfamiliar names posting, it’s great that you’ve found your way here and welcome. It’s just been reported on the BBC news that after investigations into the cervical screening exam that a five yearly interval with the hpv test is adequate for cancer detection. I’ve got a feeling there may be an “announcement” soon, so expect outrage from the screenaholic brigade personally I can’t wait for the sh!! to hit the fan, they may have to reveal some truths to smooth things over with these morons.
    Hugs Jules x.

  13. Uk ladies, for anyone fed up with the Jubilee, BBC2 tonight 9pm making sense of cancer
    Professor of Maths Hannah Fry diagnosed with cervical cancer at aged 36 “investigates the way we diagnose and treat cancer by examining statistics “

  14. Hi ladies,
    News about one of my previous posts, Dr Krishna Singh was found guilty of all but one charge at court of sexual misconduct over a period of 35 years against 47 females including two underage girls , one lady who was pregnant, and a rape victim who was abused during her rape exam, this animal was described in court of being of previous good character and the recipient of an MBE for his “services to the medical profession ” Who the fu!! are they trying to kid, his sentence 12 years is nowhere near enough for the emotional damage and anguish he’s caused
    he should have been nailed to the floor , dowsed in petrol and set alight.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • That’s so pathetic. What a non-story that is. Says “up to 100” in the article, and we know that only about 1 in 100 women is at risk. These local rags are always promoting these “tragic” tales of doom, but every year thousands of young people commit suicide because children’s mental health services are so underfunded, but you can walk in and get a smear test anytime. Makes me sick the amount of money that’s thrown at this rubbish.

      Meanwhile, downunder, HPV self-testing will be available to all after July 1st:
      https://www.health.qld.gov.au/public-health/cancer-screening/cervical/self-collection

      • Thats brilliant but can you imaging the furore if 100% self testing was introduced here in the UK? It would free up practice nurses to do proper work, think of the poor agressive receptionist who would no longer be able to coerce you to come in for screening, it would even free up time in GP surgeries to do other more relevant treatments and ease the workload……

        Jess

      • This was recently tweeted by @TomPMarshall a researcher in Public Health who I follow. Often says wise words about screening.

        “The UK cervical screening programme faces an interesting dilemma. The cohort of HPV-vaccinated women are at half the risk of an earlier generation, changing the cost-benefit ratio.
        But screening programmes are institutions & their primary function is to maintain their existence”.

        There are quite a few in the public health sector who know it’s a big waste of money, and yet there are the afficionados who are raking in so much money for these pathetic research projects, where other countries have already moved on. Not to mention the GPs and their incentive payments.

        We’re dealing with the last very elderly relations in the family now and it is appalling the lack of care elderly people actually get. Discharged from hospital with no care plans/support in place, family members at their wits end caring for very disabled relatives. These smear test nurses need putting back into the community to act as district nurses and caring for those most in need, yet families are forced to pay for all of this privately.

        Makes my blood boil. And we have yet another cervical screening awareness week coming up on 20th June.

      • that’s great! This should be available to everyone, including other countries. There’s even a self test on NURX but, sadly it isn’t available in my state yet. And yeah it’s sad that mental health isn’t as important for professionals. it should be– i always said things can get better with time, but as a person who considered mental health issues, mental health should be available to all. it’s sad that we can ruin our bodies for free, but to talk to a therapist, we need to pay. crazy.

  15. Hi adawells,
    Another awareness campaign on the 20th can’t wait ,I find them a great source of amusement these days I’m just wondering if they can manage to come up with any new slant on the topic or if it will be the same old drivel they have been promoting for the last 30 years, I’m not going to hold my breath, probably just more of the same old same old, some people just don’t learn, but then again with more than 1 in 3 women not bothering with paps maybe some do.
    Hugs Jules x.

  16. Hi ladies,
    You will be pleased to hear that we can all relax, on the BBC news today they announced that an ambassador for women’s healthcare has been appointed
    Dame Lesley Regan she is leading a campaign called women’s health strategy and she wants to introduce “health hubs” where women can go to access all female health needs such as HRT, contraception , at home abortion pills and of course the good old smear test, thought it was too good to be true , but what can you expect from a prof of obstetrics and gynaecology from the imperial college London, she’s just going to enforce the age old propaganda they all do and any other person with a different view must be an idiot, sounds to me like if you did go with a problem it would just be another chance for them to try and get you to submit to their demands.
    Hugs Jules x./

    • Wait until men begin lining up for abortions and scrape tests.
      Ahh socialized medical care.
      Getting what you pay for.

  17. Daily Express today UK ladies, David Tennants wife Georgia fuelling the cervical hysteria raising awareness of her story and how vital smears are. She said borderline changes had her planning her funeral and eventually she had CIN 2 which we all know can reverse itself… groan!
    On another note I’m relocating in 2 weeks from SE England to nearer my adult daughter in Wales, and I’m already thinking about if my as yet unknown new doctor will hound me to have smears and mammograms! The answer will still be NO!

  18. Perhaps Ms Tennant should read the Daily Fail who carry a story of a woman who’s cervical cancer returned. Said woman ditched her 16 hour long workdays became a vegan sex therapist and inserts cannabis into her vagina every day…..

  19. Hey everyone! Hope all is well. I just wanted to say how proud i am of myself for well standing up to my experiences. A year ago, i made the firm decision to review all my doctors that i’ve been to, i started with yelp, but put some on healthgrades as well.. i wrote honest reviews detailing my bad experiences at the doctors that i’ve been to. This includes all gyno exams and doctors that i’ve been to. But even though i written those reviews, i still feel feelings of trauma. Does anyone else feel this way at all? Like i wish i could just tell my past self– don’t worry about these exams and insert the knowledge i have right now. Like i know today to say no, i don’t want this but wish i was that brave in the past. wish i didn’t have no pelvic exams and that inaccurate pap test. i only had it 3 times but, 3 times too many. like it’s sickening that some perform that test on virgins, and perform it no matter what on people who don’t want it. like even being not listening to has made me distrust all doctors not just gynos.

    • Well done! I did the same – reviewed all my past doctors on HealthGrades, Vitals, etc., and detailed how many unnecessary pelvic exams they performed and colposcopies they referred me for (I only attended 1 and they didn’t bother with a biopsy, thank god, because there was nothing there). And yes, it’s always always hard to relive that stuff. My heart starts pounding, my hands shaking, and I feel both angry and powerless at the same time.

      In a way, I’m a little glad for it because it motivates me to warn others and spread the word where I can.

      • I’ve said a Pap Scrape (the smear is what’s done on the glass slide–the scrape is how they get the sample to smear and that scrape draws blood which is why it hurts) is only 50% accurate.
        Vs the Trovagene (now Cardiff Diagnostics) Urine Based HPV test that was 93% accurate.
        That’s why your colposcopy had nothing. You were sent for a coin toss.

      • Hey there! Yes, i am proud of myself too for giving reviews based upon my experiences. it’s just some days i can’t believe i am still truamatized by what happened to me. Glad to see that others feel the same way tho as far as being retruamatized. i just don’t like being truamatized all the time– like i know i’ll heal eventually but it’s almost like i am still annoyed by it, thus causing me to relive it all the time. not fun when one is trying to heal. i even don’t think i’ll ever go to a gyno ever again.

  20. It’s a sad day for the US today as Roe v Wade was just overturned and more than half of the population will soon no longer have access to abortion.

    What I haven’t seen any mention of yet is that now more than ever, we need to make birth control available over the counter. Studies have shown it’s safe enough, ACOG recommends it, and it’s OTC in many countries already.

    You ask the average woman what she thinks about birth control being OTC and you’ll hear that it’s not safe enough and that without requiring a doctor’s visit, women can’t be trusted to keep up with Paps and other testing that is unnecessary for birth control. These patriarchal views still have a strong hold, even in the staunchest of feminists.

    I know not everyone is on board with birth control pills, but with rights being taken away, we need every contraceptive option to be as accessible as possible. I am wishing and hoping that this will be the wake-up call we’ve been needing to separate birth control from a doctor’s control.

    For any US women who happen to read this, aidaccess.org will mail you abortion pills whether you need them now or might in the future.

    • Well I agree with every word you say.
      BC pills should be easily obtained. Except if you shop at WalFart. That law has been in power in CA for what, a decade or close to it? Yet WalFart refused to allow its pharmacists to distribute The Pill.
      You talk about a bunch of pent up cement prostate old resentful geezers?
      There could be a huge public affairs push, including that to encourage testing by something other than Pap Scrape. I’m the one who in 2012 had the then exclusive Trovagene Urine Based HPV Test. So I know it can be done.
      And that, however, truly does give us control over our own bodies to do as we like.

  21. Hi Dizzle,
    I can’t believe the Roe v Wade decision either, what the hell are they thinking, this is in no way their decision to make, a woman would have given this a great deal of thought before she would of made her decision to terminate it would be an emotional and difficult choice and one not taken lightly, and could be the result of failed contraception or even by an attack, for which she cannot be held responsible, the people who come up with these idea’s show just out of touch with reality they really are this should be the individuals choice not theirs, have they not heard of women’s rights, but seeing that most of these decisions are made by men obviously these are discarded.
    Hugs Jules x.

  22. Hi ladies!
    Question for you guys. Coming to you all first of course because everyone else will just tell me “go see a doctor.” Screw that, they’ll of course just want to do all these ridiculous invasive exams.
    My right ovary has been hurting on and off the past 2 days, and my period is expected this week. I understand ovulation pain comes with the cycle but this is right before my period. I could be reaching but I hope it’s not a sign of an ectopic pregnancy. I’ll pee on a stick here soon to check anyway (hoping it’s negative, not planning on getting pregnant anytime soon still).
    What do you all think it might be? It’s not excruciating just so you know, just an annoying dull pain. I’m hoping it’s just weird PMS pain that I get only every so often. I woke up yesterday with some weird sharp stomach pains that was also in my chest area, then that stopped. Then later on I had awful low back pain which eventually carried to my right ovary. It didn’t last long, but I felt it again today around the same time I did yesterday. It went away after a little while, and tonight I’m feeling a very faint pain but it’s still there.
    Like I said, it’s not awful or debilitating, I’m just hoping it’s nothing to worry about and that I won’t have to go in to see someone about it… hope to hear from you guys soon, thanks. You’re all amazing!

      • Do ovarian cysts go away on their own? As far as I know I’ve never had one before. I hope it’s nothing to worry about.

      • Usually yes.
        The pinheads will want to pap scrape you first and foremost.
        Waste of time.
        If it’s passed, watch next 3 months to see if it repeats.
        Got heating pad?

      • It went away! It lasted on and off for about 3 days. I took a pregnancy test too and it’s negative. And thank you for your responses.
        Like I said before it was a very dull pain, but it wasn’t excruciating. I knew to just wait it out. I usually do that with most things I’m having issues with lol. I’ve just had a hard time trusting doctors as you can only guess why of course.
        I’m thinking of finding a holistic doctor because they aren’t usually linked to the big pharmaceutical industry. Do holistic doctors have anything to do with gynecology? Hopefully not, but I’m sure that they’d be more understanding than standard doctors who push paps on every woman ever.

  23. Hi all,
    Yes sad day indeed for the overturned decision of Roe VS Wade. First off, as mentioned on this site, it is a woman’s choice to terminate or not. plus one may not know, maybe there are special circumstances like having an genetic disorder where they may not want or afford to have kids. 2nd off, as previously mentioned, i hope they don’t end up going after birth control now. There are many people who are taking birth control that are ordering from NURX or other online pharmacies because they don’t want the pressure of paps or from their doctor. it should be the choice of the individual and not the government. plus now, where abortons are illegal, some may do it themselves, which can be worst than having a doctor do it.

    • I wish governments understood that making abortions illegal won’t keep them from happening. They’ll just make them less safe and can/will die from it when doing it themselves. They’re willing to even criminalize women who miscarry. That’s such an overreach!

  24. Good morning everyone,
    I have just seen this on Youtube, if this can be rolled out in Australia why can the same be done here??

    Jess

  25. Hi ladies,
    Just found an interesting article on the Daily mirror website, at the start of the year in January the powers that be launched the first awareness campaign week of the year with barely a break before the second started for a whole month and now we have had the third, everybody has been pretty much saturated with these bloody campaigns already this year, and the resulting rewards for these maniacs,
    City of London-39.8%
    Kensington and Chelsea-41.7%
    Westminster-42.9%
    Camden-45.8%
    Tower hamlets-49.5%Hammersmith and Fulham-50%
    Islington- 52%
    Brent-53.1%
    Luton-55.5%
    After all their relentless efforts
    a continuous drop in screening
    Ha ha ha ha ha, is it too early in the day to have a celebratory drink.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules,
      What they don’t tell you is that London has the lowest rates of cervical cancer in the UK. Funny that isn’t it, that the areas with the lowest uptake of screening also have the lowest rates of this cancer? They don’t make that very public, in case the public starts doing the sums.
      I expect the screening rates to go up though. Many of these figures are for those without a test in last 3.5 years. Now that test’s are done every 5.5 years this figure is bound to have increased compliance. Sadly.

    • It seems as though the most affluent areas have the lowest screening rates, ie. City of London and Kensington/ Chelsea, and the screening rates for Tower Hamlets, Islington, Brent etc is higher.

      Evidence potentially of bullying minority communities into screening perhaps? We know there has been a big focus on them in recent years.

      Also, what is the viability rate for this programme? 70% compliance across the country? How on earth is it allowed to continue without at least a review to determine whether the programme is still merited?? “Screening committee” making the rules up as they go along???

      • Jules and AQ this is interesting! I’m actually in Luton , I’m relocating to wales next week and have been in Luton most of my life. It’s a deprived town, high ethnic minority population, mainly Pakistani/?Indian: Bengali, fair amount Jamaican/ West Indian/ Somali
        I was put under intense pressure to screen when I changed practices about 2006, so much so I dubbed my main tormentor Dr Smear Test. I wondered if maybe it was because as I was white it was perceived I’d feel better about getting my vagina out?!

      • It’s possible those in the more affluent areas make use of private healthcare in addition to/instead of NHS care. So they’re on the list as having not screened but may have elsewhere (where they can actually pick and choose an appt that suits them and everything is shiny and new).

        Just a theory. It could well be they’re clued up and made an informed choice to decline.

      • Kat – I hope you enjoy Wales Kat!

        Caroline – That could well be another reason why women in the affluent boroughs are not screening. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if they also have some of the highest rates of informed “dissenters”!

  26. Re. Roe v Wade – This is a terrifying decision and will have unintended (or perhaps, deliberate) consequences. Many women will almost certainly die.

    The laws in Mississipi, Missouri, Tennessee etc allow for abortions where a woman’s life is in “immediate danger”.

    On the face of it, that might sound as though a woman at risk of sepsis might be safe but the catch is the wording,”immediate danger”.

    A woman who is told she is at risk of “threatened abortion” due to blood pooling or ectopic pregnancy will not be eligible for an abortion.

    She will only be eligible when her condition becomes critical and her life is judged to be in “immediate danger”, so basically when she is haemorraghing and her oxygen levels drop.

    Medical practitioners in some states are already referring women to places like New Mexico to avoid operating on them.

    I don’t believe any of this is accidental though, or that legislators who state that an ectopic pregnancy can be “replanted” don’t know what they are doing.

    I have noticed a sharp rise in incel culture in the West in recent years who are emboldened by this decision and I have no doubt the justices will go after contraception next, as promised by Clarence Thomas. There’s a saying that when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

    What annoys me is some lobby groups, including some Planned Parenthood groups, who are telling women that contraception is not at risk and implying that everyone is being hysterical.
    They are no doubt the same people who endorsed Susan Collins (a pro-choice Republican who backed two conservative justices for the SCOTUS), and those who told feminists they were being hysterical when they warned that Roe v Wade was at risk of being overturned.

    I hope the Democrats are organised this November. They are going to have to be utterly ruthless.

    Reverting to the UK for a minute, I just wanted to tell those of you who are in Britain, that I ordered my six month supply of Microgynon today for endometriosis-type symptoms with Simplemedsonline.

    The process was very simple. There was a brief questionnaire of 10 multi-choice questions and not a SINGLE question about smear tests.

    It was also very reasonably priced at £17.99 and as a new customer, I managed to get it for £14.39 with free delivery – at least £10 cheaper than Superdrug.

    Thought I’d give you alll a heads up, especially given the rise in costs for just about everything at the moment!

  27. AQ and UK ladies, can’t remember where exactly (I’m full of cold and busy organising my relocation) but I saw yesterday online a UK Tory MPNsaying that actually UK women shouldn’t/ might not have absolute body autonomy over abortion so this might hit UK too. And if we Don have the right to abortion, could they then mandate screening? As we don’t have autonomy??

    • There’s a lot of fearmongering with these changes.
      Let the law take effect first.
      The hype will settle.

    • Oh yes, Danny Kruger, the son of Prue Leith. Or perhaps, being the son of Freddy Kruger would be a more apt description..

      The problem with discussing the Roe v Wade judgement here in the UK and other countries outside of the US is that it draws out the crazies and gives them the attention and the oxygen that otherwise, they wouldn’t get.

      Why were they discussing the judgement in the House of Commons, when the procedure gere is legal? It just emboldens those who would see avortion banned here

      • AQ Freddy Kruger… priceless!!good name change. And yes it was that I was thinking of!!

      • Love that. Imagine him trying to put on a glove.
        Or Jason wearing a mask over his hockey mask.

    • One hopeful sign is that the UK government has offered any US woman who needs reproductive healthcare (e.g., abortion, or contraception if or when they criminalize that, or treatment for a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy) access to FREE healthcare in the UK. She would have to get there (there are already private funding sources for women who need to travel). No doubt she’d be pap-screened to access that healthcare, but that’s the case in the US too.

  28. Hi ladies,
    I have an idea, it’s a bit radical but I think it could sway things to our way of thinking,
    “Celibacy”if all women abstained from intimate relations, how long would it take before all men gave in to our way of thinking.
    no sex , no need for contraception, no need for female exams, no chance of getting HPV or any other nasties
    no more laws saying what a woman is allowed to do with her body, no more doctor lectures, and I’m sure with a visit to an Ann summers outlet could put our own needs in order, I give men three months tops before we rule the world, and a hi to kat I hope the move goes ok.
    Hugs Jules .

    • Ah, but there WOULD be a “need” for internal vaginal exams to receive any other type of healthcare. That would be used as the coercion to acquiesce to the nice doctor cranking us open, pap scraping us, possibly infecting us with his/her fingers or instruments (requiring more trips to being cranked open). All of this by telling us how they are trying to protect us from this RAMPANT cancer, which is considered rare if you look at any actual numbers and definition of common or rare cancers.

    • Jules I love your comments you’re priceless?!!😸
      Three MONTHS?
      I’m not running any man down o give 3 days but….?!

  29. Hi ladies,
    Looks like we have an unexpected convert, “our mom”when we told her of our decision not to screen she was a more than a little skeptical, having been a lifelong member of the pussy police brigade. However she went to our old gp earlier in the the week and he pointed out that she was overdue her test and she politely declined, he said if she was pushed for time she could go to reception and book for the near future, and then Just stood there waiting for a reply after a few seconds silence, he asked if she had any questions, she said yes and she was just wondered why he was continuing the conversation because as far as she was concerned that the subject was closed with her refusal, she said that he just looked at her lost for words, she bid him a good morning and then left.
    At 53yr’s old she can still amaze me.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Jules,
      That’s great to hear, because a lot of women over 50 only have 3 tests left to go, and they use this pressure to get women of that age to just submit to these last ones and then they’ll leave them alone for good.

      What I find so distasteful about cervical screening is that it’s presented as an essential ritual we all have to go through and it has preconditioned so many women into thinking their bodies cannot function without it. They have no confidence in themselves to make sound judgements about these procedures. Many just queue up for one invasive procedure after another assuming this is the lot of womankind, never questioning whether any of it is necessary. I see a lot of women post on social media complaining about the endless torture they experience at gynae visits, but you never quite get to the bottom of why they are visiting. If you press them for information they always reply that they put themselves through this because “it could be cancer”, so they will succumb to all sorts to get a clearance result. I sometimes wonder if some of these women are being treated so badly in the hope that they will stop coming back. Screening encourages people to think they require constant medical inspection, supervision and maintenance, and seems to have created swathes of women who will put themselves through any amount of harm thinking this is what women are supposed to do.

      • Those have always been my thoughts about the cervical screening programme in particular.

        When I was in my teens and early twenties, I could not understand why so many viewed this as “part of being a woman” when they were essentially man-made tests. I thought, how dare the medical profession try and enforce this for life on us whether we wanted them or not, and I just couldn’t understand for the life of me, why women just accepted this, and lined up for procedure after procedure.

        What else I couldn’t understand was that throughout human history, we have managed to propogate (perhaps too much) and evolve. The greatest dangers to women is and has always been childbirth and homicide. Yet, the NHS still pushes natural childbirth even at the expense of women who need medical intervention and to be frank, the authorities don’t seem bothered about domestic violence and the killing of women on our streets either.

        There is no mention at all in our history books of this mysterious disease striking all these women down in their prime, yet it is all our health authorities seem to care about.

        Yet, I dislike the role the NHS has played in cervical screening. It is supposed to offer medical care to the population, yet screening with its’ appropriation of women’s data, crosses the boundary in my mind, from offering medical care to surveillance and policing women’s bodies. As we know, screening is often used as an opportunity to ask intrusive questions and the answers go straight onto their database and are sometimes used for profiling. I have always found this overreach of their powers completely inappropriate.

  30. There’s a thread on Mumsnet at the moment – usual comments, including from a GP urging women to go. Self testing has been mentioned, but apparently this isn’t good enough because it won’t involve ‘visualising the cervix’. Practice nurse saying it’s a ‘good idea for someone to have a good look down there every now and again’. Lack of informed consent has been mentioned, but only in the context of samples only being checked for HPV, rather than analysing the cells themselves. I’d love to mention Dr. Margaret McCartney, Dr. Lucia Gannon and the BMJ articles regarding informed consent, but know I’d just get flamed for my ‘irresponsibility’ and ‘dangerous rhetoric!

    • Oh and someone from another country, probably the US, boasting of their annual screenings and other regular procedures, eliciting the envy of other posters who wish it could be so over here (with all the inherent harms that would bring).

      • It’s impossible to reason with the Mum’s net brigade.

        They are quite literally, fanatics.

        It’s one group I leave out of my efforts to help educate.

        I’m surprised they don’t accuse women who advocate for informed consent, of witchcraft.

  31. Hi Gem and AQ ,
    I’ve stopped visiting mum’s net, because it just winds me up, they just follow the medical recommendations to the letter not thinking for themselves or questioning it, they probably still believe that the earth is flat and the moon is made out of cheese, I can’t believe that they are all that stupid, and I can only think that this is down to the conditioning they receive from an early age it’s simply brainwashing, I was brought up as an independent individual and from an early age I questioned pretty much everything and I believe this has paid dividends as now I just don’t accept the “norm” and reason things out for myself , the herd mentality has been generated by the medical profession for compliance by installing fear for decades, having a smear test to many is abhorrent but they subject themselves to this out of misinformation, fear and coercion, and by even trying to trivialise it, it only takes 5 minutes, the nurse does this all the time , you’re just being silly this could save your life ( so could looking both ways crossing the road) I’m afraid they are going to have raise their game to convince me, their misinformation for me is sound reasoning for mistrust.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I hate to say it, but there is a sort of morality that accompanies this insidious belief in screening.

      They judge women for not going, in the same way they would have judged women for promiscuity about thirty years ago.

      There is a belief by many that these women are lazy, irresponsible and “loose”.

      I can’t tell you the amount of comments I have seen in the Daily Mail or Mum’s net saying that young women will sleep with anyone but won’t undress for a nurse.

      Where is all this judgement, misogyny and hatred coming for? Why do they care so much?? It’s just vile.

      • It seems to be just a re-hash of a common line used for centuries, combined with the medical fields’ notion that all women are having lots of sex.The line is “You had sex with Tom and Harry. Now, you’re saying you won’t have sex with me too? I’m a better guy than either of them because (reasons).” Now it is, “You’ll have lots of sex with all of these people, but won’t open your legs to let ME penetrate you too? If I do it, it might save your life.” It’s the same line. It should be met with the same rebukes.

  32. Hi ladies,
    Have you ever noticed how hypocrisy is rife in the medical community, I had a couple of hours to myself today and browsed through some sites to do with medical student learning
    and their tutors in med school they are encouraged to examine peers to enhance their skills as a trainee the majority were willing for exams of the eyes ears throat arms nose and feet, when approached for more intimate procedures, a grand total out of 425, (seven different med schools )zero volunteers , many gave reasons of religious or cultural backgrounds, modesty or embarrassment in front of peers.
    Aren’t these the very people who say examination of the genitalia is no different to examinations of other body parts and should be treated as such, if they are unwilling to be poked , prodded and probed themselves why do they expect us to be.
    Hugs Jules x.

  33. Hi ladies,
    In women’s healthcare there are many documented cases of inadequacy, and in this day and age that really shouldn’t be the case ,but I’ve been reading a news report from last week which dealt with the way girls and young woman were treated in the 50’s and 60’s when they became pregnant outside of marriage, jeez they were treated like outcasts, ostracised by their own families sent out of town to give birth and their child taken from them straight after birthing for adoption, this involved over two thousand cases, and these women are now demanding that the government and the healthcare services involved for a public apology of their treatment, some of the woman involved said that their child had sought them out in later years, but they had lost decades of the bond they should have shared from birth,
    just thinking was this about the same time that the medical profession started treating us as second class citizens.
    Hugs Jules x.

  34. Hi all. Few questions.
    I’ve suspected I may be pregnant, and when doing some research on natural contraceptives and such, and found that neem oil is a powerful natural contraceptive that’s been used by both men and women, especially in India for thousands of years. I heard that it can also induce a miscarriage if you end up pregnant and not wanting to follow through with it. So, since I’ve suspected I might be, and don’t exactly want to be right now, I ordered neem capsules to take in case I end up being pregnant. Only thing I’ve been worrying about is if I’m not careful enough and “secretive” enough about it, because I live in a state that has trigger abortion laws and I don’t want to get in trouble with the law over something so minimal. Hell, I’m even afraid of them reading this right now (stupid Patriot Act). I don’t even think I can safely buy a pregnancy test without someone breathing down my neck about it and being in my business about it so just to be safe I’m gonna do natural at-home pregnancy tests.
    What do you guys think? Am I going to be safe from any “authority figures” in this situation? I just can’t believe women can actually get in trouble for having a miscarriage (even if it’s not on purpose). I know I won’t like tell anyone about it except for people I closely trust (including all you wonderful women on this blog) but I just want to know if I will be safe and won’t get in trouble for “purposely” inducing a miscarriage if I end up pregnant and don’t want to be right now.

    • I don’t think they’re going to prosecute women with the surveillance State that they don’t quite have in place (yet). If you’re worried about someone finding you’re buying pregnancy tests, walk in and buy them with cash. Same with any herbs or other substances you want to use – buy it from a brick & mortar store with cash.

      Ordering capsules from an online or mail order source has a few problems. One of which is that it can be tracked. The other is you may not be getting what you think you’re buying, or in the strength you think you are. Quality control is almost nonexistent on “supplements” or international semi- or quasi-pharmaceuticals.

      Do not use such things as period tracking apps. We already know that information from those is going to governments as well as to corporations as it has been for years. Use a paper calendar, and shred the calendar page at the end of the month.

      • Thank you Beth and AQ. I do have a VPN and I’ll need to remember to keep it on my phone because sometimes without my knowledge it just turns off on its own and it’s annoying. So hopefully the VPN keeps from tracking. I use it on my computer all the time. I have also deleted my cycle tracker since I have just recently heard that the information goes to governments. I will start using a paper calendar as well
        By the way y’all, I got my period so I’m not pregnant!

        Also, I don’t think they’ve yet activated the trigger laws, but I may need to check up on it. My neem capsules did come in the mail, and it did even come with a warning with “reproductive harm,” so I might try and ween myself off the pill here soon and see how that goes. I greatly appreciate all you amazing women’s input on everything. I remember talking to my friend about this same topic, and she did say to buy a test with cash just in case. I also even looked into doing natural tests at home, like with vinegar, baking soda, salt, sugar, etc.

        So, even with the neem capsules I bought with the warning label that said “reproductive harm,” should I still trust that? Or should I just try and find something at the store instead, if I can find it, instead of ordering them online? Again, thank you all for your amazing insights and wisdom.

    • I really feel for you Anon.

      I would heed Beth’s advice and perhaps buy a test from a store. Preferably, in an out of town store, where you are not likely to bump into people you know.

      They will at least be none the wiser, if it does turn out to be positive.

      Should the worse happen, do you have access to support?

      Please do not quote me on this, but I think a VPN address MIGHT help if you do decide to make out of state enquiries online.

      People I know use VPN addresses when they are downloading or streaming online content, rather than buying TV subscriptions etc. They use them because they think it caan prevent tracking, but you would need to check this out first as I am not 100% certain.

      As for contraceptives, they have not been banned yet, so you should at least have no trouble purchasing them for the time being.

      Please let us know how things work out for you. Take care of yourself. Wishing you the best xxx

    • Just wanted to ask – has your state “activated” the trigger law yet? And if so, is it an outright ban on all abortions, as opposed to somewhere like Florida which allows abortions up to 15 weeks.

      A couple of states have activated their trigger laws but they have been temporarily blocked by the courts, so Kansas and Kentucky for instance, are still allowing abortions in some situations.

      I think Michigan might have a pre-Roe law which has also been blocked in the courts.

      Might be worth checking whether there are any legal challenges in your state, if you haven’t already done so.

      Good luck once again.

      • I would also like to know something. Since I want to eventually wean myself off of birth control, I am afraid of my period pain coming back full force so quickly. I have found many holistic ways to actually cure endometriosis, which I will be on a journey to do so. One of the best ways I heard is fermented cod liver oil. Taking one TBS of it twice daily for 60 days is one way, along with diet changes alone, more towards a traditional diet of animal fats and raw dairy. I wonder though, if I can make these changes right now while I’m still on the pill or if I should wait until I get off the pill. I’m wondering if those changes can be made while I’m still on the pill, that way when I get off it, my periods won’t be as bad as they were BEFORE I went on the pill??

  35. Question mainly for USA posters, but for anyone to whom this is applicable…

    Do primary care Drs./GPs have the right to pressure female patients about when they last underwent so-called “well woman” exams or demand records of these exams from a female patient’s OBGYN doctor? Why would they feel the need for this information, yet not require information about their last ophthalmologist visit, dermatologist visit, etc.? A family member recently encountered this scenario when visiting a new primary care/GP doctor for the first time and it was very unsettling.

    • The thing is, US doctors are obsessed with “well woman care.” I’ve seen several doctors in recent years due to being on blood pressure meds, and the first thing out of nearly all of their mouths is “Do you have a gynecologist?” or “You should be having a Gyn exam every year.” It’s extremely disheartening not to mention infuriating. When it comes to any exam or screening I don’t want, which is pretty much all of them, I tell them I’ve studied the risks and benefits and made the decision that’s right for me. The medical community doesn’t own our bodies but it seems to think they do.

      • It’s almost as though they think women don’t have other body parts..

        Why would you want a gynaecologist for a heart or blood pressure check? 🥴

        Would they refuse to perform live saving surgery unless you confirmed your last gyn visit?

        The whole thing is bonkers.

      • Yeah i’ve seen this well women care thing, and it absoletuly blows my mind. Like i went to a new doctor in April, they asked “is it okay if your doctor makes a gyno appointment for you? i said absolutely not because i have had bad experiences with them in the past (although not at their offices) Luckily they understood and dropped it right then and there, but like when it comes to something i don’t want, i don’t need to be hearing about it. my past doctor tho in another practice always inserted in her record not in touch with gyno… that was annoying to see because again, bad experiences. it is sad to see that the medical community owns our bodies.

    • If you ask me, PCPs, while it is their job to manage healthcare overall- they don’t have a right to pressure people about well woman exams (or any other exams their patient may not want) if it is told that they don’t want these exams. i encountered a similar experience going to a new pcp, but told them that i had bad experiences with past gynos and wouldn’t go for another one. Honestly if you ask me, they should ask more about dermatologist visits or ophthalmologist visits. My current healthcare provider recommends me keeping a list of all my doctors that i go to, and give contact info to her at the next appointment. Which in my opinion is better, because they can see what doctors you do go to. I don’t blame you for feeling unsettled about it. for me sometimes even if it is just mentioned it can trigger my truama.

    • I had an encounter a couple of years ago where I was pressured – to the point of coercion – to have this stupid test and vaginal (and probably anal) penetration – when I was there for a refill of my diabetes meds, and a check of the diabetes-related issues. Instead, I spent my 20 minutes in what amounted to worse pressure to finger my vagina than I had on my worst date in high school! As the other women have said, they’re obsessed with our genitalia, to the exclusion of everything else. Just over 4,000 women die of cervical cancer in the US, diabetes is the #6 cause of death, and heart disease the #1 – the last two are the same for men or women. BTW, I’ve heard of women being subjected to this “pap crap” when they’re in the ER DURING a heart attack!

      Since then, I’ve gotten a bunch of my ducks in a row for the next time this happens. For one thing, there is the issue of consent. There are lots of things out there about what consent looks like, often written for young teens, and what it does not. They talk about “enthusiastic consent” – which this clearly is not. We have a word for penetrating someone without their consent… For another, there is probably a “patients bill of rights”, posted in the facility where your doctor works, saying that you have the right to refuse any proposed procedure or treatment, without giving up your right to be treated for others. For a third, a reason in the US to stop this nonsense coercion is that YOU are paying for it by the minute! So is your insurance company, and depending on how the visit is billed, the insurance company might be interested to know they were not paying for treatment/followup for diagnosed condition X, but for this refused nonsense.

      It would certainly be seen as sexual harassment or attempted rape if an auto mechanic claimed he had to penetrate your vagina before fixing your brakes. This is sexual harassment, and someone could make a good case of it with an auto mechanic. Reality does not take a coffee break in the medical examination room.

      You could report this to law enforcement as attempted rape. Coercion IS a type of force, in a legal sense. You could make a complaint to the medical board of your state as unethical behavior. If you don’t want to take it that far, you could file a complaint with the clinic or hospital he is working within.

      When you leave the office – perhaps by saying “enough”, and if they won’t stop and work with the condition that brought you in, when you’re checking out, LOUDLY say in the waiting room, “Dr. X would not look at or treat (my condition) until he penetrated my vagina! I got NO medical care.” Refuse to pay. Report the situation to your state’s attorney general office.

      Note that you might have to go some time without evaluation, treatment, care, or medications for your condition for awhile. That’s the fear which the coercion works on. You can find a different doctor, and tell the office in advance that you don’t want more pressure into a pelvic examination. if you know what medications you need, you might be able to get them from Mexico, or over the Internet, but be careful with the Internet sources, as you might not be getting the medication you want or need.

      Another alternative is to lie. Say that you go to Planned Parenthood for your “well women care”, and give them a date a couple of months in the past.

      Good luck with this. The more women who know they don’t have to just live with this pressure or go without medical care – which WE ARE PAYING FOR, we might actually be able to access medical care without opening our legs as the “admission price”.

  36. Exactly AQ and Susanne! The obsession with our genital! I remember years ago at my anaemia diagnosis refusing to have the test where they insert camera down your throat and up your anus to check for bleeding . I said I would try iron tablets first and improving diet first. De Smear Test was fine with my refusing a test for a diagnosed condition but spent the rest of the time bleating about smears when I’d already opted out! We’ll all those years on I’m still here! I put off finding. A GP here in Wales , I’ll do it this week. Let’s hope I find one who won’t insist I have screening. I’ll just walk away from any who do.

  37. Hi everyone,
    An interesting link came up on my twitter feed this morning about womens attitude to extending cervical screening intervals to five years. It looks like a lot are in favour of it. Does anyone know if the 5 year aproach is going to be adopted in England like it has in Scotland and Wales?

    Jess

  38. Hi again Everyone,
    Sorry to post on here again, but this came up on my Youtube feed this morning:

    This lady has been bamboozled into having a smear test she seems to think she “has to have it” and the nurse told her that if she has HPV she has it for life!. This is nothing short of brainwashing.

    Also @adawells thanks for sending the link over it was interesting to look at. Surley if screening is moved to every 5 years this is going to hit GP Surgeries in the pockets for a while, also the Rottweillers on reception will have nobody to chase as well.

    Jess

    • This video is actually quite troubling, especially when she says “have to have all these things done.” Did she think she had to have the test? Was it presented as compulsory? Perhaps it’s just her choice of words but she seems to resent it.

      Interesting she says she’s 27 and it’s her first. I wonder if she didn’t go and got bullied into it while there for something else?

      I need to join a GP surgery after moving. It’s been languishing at the bottom of my to-do list for months but I just can’t face it as I know the letters etc will start up. Obviously I’ll opt out but still, a potential battle I don’t have the headspace for.

  39. Caroline same! After a month in Wales I’ve still not registered anywhere for a. GP! If I’m seriously sick someone will have to see me as an emergency! And to be honest I want as little medical intervention as possible in all aspects of my life; I would refuse statins for example.
    The poor lady in the video? They put the hard sell on her?! Having your womb numbed and the lining checked? Hysteroscopy? I got the impression she felt as I did at smears , violated! She kept saying she had enough. I really hope she’s ok and doesn’t get dragged back

  40. Hey all hate to change the subject here but has anyone else tried ordering birth control through lemonade health? i actually just noticed the other day that lemonade health actually lets you order thyroid pills for hypothyroid. Sure wish i knew that back in April when i was looking for a new doctor! Also i use nurx currently but they are so busy with messages, it seems to be annoying. doesn’t help that i am thinking about switching to the ring tho!

  41. Hi ladies,
    There is a programme on channel 5 this week called women’s health breaking the taboos hosted by cherry healey and it is to do with following a patient who undergoes a hysterectomy from being diagnosed to her admission into hospital and during the actual operation and then afterwards her recovery and emotional recovery, some may find this interesting others may just throw up, probably not an ideal watch for the squeamish but it might give a little insight to others.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I anticipate that they will make it look like a live smear, ie. “nothing to worry about”, “no pain”, “you probably don’t even need pain relief”, “why are you making a fuss”?

  42. Daily fail from 6 days ago ladies, I just saw it now, they seem to b saying giving the HPV jab to those who have pre cancerous cells could prevent it developing into full blown cancer! I’ll pass on all aspects of cervix “care” still thanks! And I’m still not registered anywhere yet in Wales!!

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