Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.


  1. Hi ladies,
    Does anyone else find their attempts a little pitiful, I’m tempted to write a letter to them suggesting that they hold an
    awareness campaign about the awareness campaign so that more people are made aware of the awareness campaign and become more aware. Ha ha ha
    sorry ladies having a daft day today.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I think it is pitiful. No matter how many campaigns they do, the numbers fall steadily, year on year. The campaigns don’t work, and there’s research out there looking at the effectiveness of these campaigns showing they don’t work, but still they go on, as if people haven’t heard of the test. I know some GP surgeries have run special pink screening awareness weeks and claimed they’ve had an increase in people getting tested, but once the yearly figures are in they are less than the previous year. Seems to me that these awareness weeks get people in earlier, who would have screened anyway. They just turned up earlier. Once the campaign is over, no-one bothers, and probably get less than before.

  2. Ada well do I remember that campaign oh and the crying chid, my mummy misses her smear test, now I miss my mummy! Vomitable

    • There is a poster sailing a bit close to the wind on that one – picture of young woman reading with a baby on her knee “I’m doing it for our future”

      “I’m doing it for peace of mind” is fine if you are coming from the angle of having weighed up the facts rather than been frightened into not knowing what you want to do.

      “I’m doing it for me” is fair enough if you are in possession of the facts.

  3. Hi ladies,
    Working with figures everyday at work , I can usually pick up at a glance if something is amiss, with all the pro screen sites full of sheep moaning how it was almost impossible to get a test and the charity’s whining that tens of thousands of women have missed their tests because of Covid, I can’t see it being at all possible that the overall average has only decreased by 2% , so I wondered if they have been cooking the books a little . If the posters here were to go onto their surgery website it’s possible to access a section called GP performance this reveals the total number of eligible women against the actual attendance and then gives a percentage ours stand at
    73.5 percent , and I wondered if you could do the same , just so we could keep a vigil on them, because we all know how trustworthy they are don’t we.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Some of the comments on here are really interesting I cant believe the government nonsense that on valentines day that are going to run a campaign that will get husbands/partners/boyfriends to encourage women (or people with a cervix) to for screening, personally I think it will have the opposite effect. My husband says that the idea of me having that test makes him feel physically sick and work colleauges dont tell their parters that have been screened for the same reason.
      If I see this advert on TV i am going to complain to the advertising standards association:



        Let him ask questions. Have him look over doctor’s shoulder. Let him ask to see your cervix.
        Good for his education.
        Distracts the doctor from fun.

  4. Hi ladies,
    The attitude the take with our menfolk would be to tell them if you even dare to mention this again you are gonna have less chance than them of ever seeing it again end of,I think they would get the message.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • It was eye opening for my husband.
      It empowered him to eventually find me the Trovagene test. I have no better advocate.
      If it weren’t for him I’d have been victimized a number of times.

  5. Hi Michelle and yes, the articles trying to push uptake up mentions, empowering women , helping them feel empowered to attend their smear, and some sheep have even said they found it empowering! I guess it takes all sorts lol

    • Ugh the empowerment narrative. Yes, how empowering to be misled, coerced and fed half truths which lead you to undertake an intrusive procedure that most women genuinely dread, along with all its potential harms. I’ve even seen conversations on social media aimed at women who have experienced sexual violence, encouraging them to have screening to ‘take their power back’ and ‘not let their abusers win’. It’s hideous.

      • Gem, do you think that most women genuinely dread getting smeared? There are some on Twitter that would get smeared every day if it stopped them getting cancer! I have read what Cat&mouse posted further up and I am genuinely concerned that Drs get a kick out of this. I have only had a male Dr once for a smear test and although there was a female nurse in the room I still felt very vulnerable and uncomfortable. My Hubby supports me fully in my decisions not get screened and each time an invite arrives I ask him to bin it (they are easy to spot as they have a Darlington post code.

  6. Hi ladies,
    To be honest ladies I think they are now at a total loss as to how to raise their performance figures, by trying to utilise your other half in influencing your decision is just another futile attempt by them because they just don’t know what else to do,
    and as for their new new phrase
    empowering, wtf is that all about
    most women would phrase it as demeaning , distressing, uncomfortable, painful , embarrassing surely this is the complete opposite to the empowering term they are so fond of using at the minute , but not to worry I’m sure as usual it will fail miserably again the numbers for screening will keep declining and then they will try to find another angle for persuading us , when what should have been done was to devise a more acceptable and accurate test decades ago, has anybody heard of the phrase stop flogging a dead horse.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • That’s a good question Michelle. It’s true and perhaps a bit presumptuous of me to say what I said. ‘Many women’ would have been more appropriate. There are, after all, so many ‘it’s nothing, just do it’ tweets/posts etc. floating around. And yes, I’ve also seen the tweets from women wanting to be tested every six months from the age of 16, lest they be overtaken by rampaging ‘abnormal’ cervical cells. I think it’s definitely fair to say that there are women who see it as ‘no big deal’ and who don’t find the process itself difficult and are therefore very evangelical about it (verging on bullying other women sometimes), albeit without any understanding of balancing risks and benefits.

      • Hi Gem, I agree with what you said initially that most women dread this sort of test and its only the minority such as us on here that are brave enough to stand up and say NO! The type that you get on Twitter are also a minority in saying that its nothing and they would go every day if it meant them getting cancer, they also don’t read the facts that this test is inaccurate, false positives etc. These “influencers” are helping the NHS coerce women that dont want this test into thinking that the must have this test.
        I remember that Friday afternoon when I was practically forced into having a smear test for the first time, i felt much more pressured into getting it done than I did “going all the way” with my first proper boyfriend a few weeks before.

      • Michelle, Yeah, a few years ago, I had an experience with an (unexpected) male resident whose “line” to get into my vagina was coercive – to the point that I left without expecting to get the prescriptions for my diabetes and thyroid condition renewed. I NEVER had anyone so pushy to “go all the way” throughout high school or college or early working years.

        As coercion is a type of force, we have a word to describe using force to penetrate someone’s vagina. It’s got to stop in the medical setting.

  7. Ugh Michelle. Really sorry to hear that you had that experience. Very similar to mine in terms of the level of coercion. Nothing like that should ever happen.

  8. Just checked out that odious help us help you campaign some more and found this, cervical screening takes only a few minutes and you only “have to go” ( my speech marks, but u get the idea) every 3-5 years! We HAVE to go? Really? It’s nearly 22 years now since my last smear 🎉🎉

  9. Hi ladies,
    I hope everyone is ready for a whole month of campaigning by the screening brigade , which by the way starts tomorrow , I have been trying to think of a way to avoid this garbage , not buying newspapers, watching telly , leaving the radio off , but I think the only way to totally miss it all is to go to the nearest hospital and ask them to put me in an induced coma for a month so I miss it all but could they be trusted not to smear me while I were lying there defenceless , I guess not, so it looks like we will have to grin and bare it for now and look for obvious errors they make and make a point of noting this to their devoted followers.
    Hugs Jules x.

  10. Hi All,
    This is a long post so my apologies. I mentioned a couple of weeks back that my daughter’s friend Hannah had asked me to go with her for her first smear and she had booked it for 8:30 on Feb 14th. So this morning I picked her up so we got to the surgery in good time. We were both a bit nervous as we drove to the surgery, but got parked up and checked in, and there were those awful cervical screening campaigning posters on the notice boards. Everything was fine up until this point until she got shown where to go to wait for the nurse, I went to follow her but the receptionist shouted at me (and I mean shouted like a strict teacher) that I had to sit in the waiting room as I wasn’t allowed in with her. Hannah said to the receptionist that she wanted me in the room with her and it said in the booklet she was sent she could have someone in with her, but the receptionist said she couldn’t because of covid. So we left without having the test and decided to stop for a Costa on the way home. While we were in there the nurse rang her mobile and asked why she walked out. When she said the Nurse was horrified and said if we could get back there within 10 mins she would do it there and then and if she wanted me in the room then it was perfectly OK with her. So back in we go only to be glared at by the receptionist. After what seemed like an age we got called in. Hannah got the usual grilling about date of last period, what contraception she is using, how many partners etc. The nurse then gave her a gown and asked her to undress totally and put it on and she had her weight and height measured.
    A breast check followed and I she looked as embarrassed as I felt when I had my first smear over 30 years ago. It was then time to “just hop up on the couch” I thought stirrups were a thing of the past but they weren’t here and she had to lay in that degrading position legs apart feet in stirrups while the nurse did the smear. She said it hurt like mad but the nurse told her just to hold on for a minute and it would be over, when she asked if she had used some KY Jelly to help get the speculum in the nurse said she couldn’t as it can affect the result of the smear, I am sure some nurses do use KY they did with me and they have done so on some of the vile youtube videos. For some reason she decided to take two swabs too one from next to her cervix and one from the top of her vagina as well as the smear itself and although they say the smear takes seconds I timed using the clock on the wall and the speculum was in for 100 seconds and opened for over a minute and a half.
    The nurse seemed indifferent that she was causing her pain and seemed eager to get on with things. We had another coffee on the way home and Hannah said that was the first and last smear test she was ever having and if she had been shown the speculum before hand she would have backed out there and then, as she thought it would be no bigger than a tampon applicator. When she had got dressed she asked the nurse why she hadn’t been shown the speculum before it went in and was told she has shown it to women before only for them to walk out and not have their smear taken.
    Now this ordeal is over I will show her this site in full. We are both going to formally opt out of this invasive and degrading process for good. This afternoon she is going to write a letter complaining about the attitude of both the receptionist and the nurse. Its still morning but I need a gin to try and calm down while trying to dodge the next month of smear test propeganda!

    • OMG Michelle, that sounds awful! Why is it that it takes 7 years to train to be a GP and all of 7 minutes to train a receptionist to think that she is a GP. How come that some GP surgeries have stirrups and some dont? Thank fully I have never undressed for a GP or nurse and I have no intention of doing so either.


    • Is this the UK? I have never been asked how many sexual partners, and they can FO to the far side with that one.

      I have had unnecessary and incompetent breast examinations to get the pill though.

      • Hi Jan,
        Yes it was, in a normal surgery in the UK. Personally I think most of the questions she was asked were irelevant to her state of health, more of a data mining exercise to they can model the personal habits of the bulk of the UK population

      • Yes, I usually get asked how many sexual partners I’ve had. This question has DATABASE written all over it! Clearly, it’s to try to gather the information of how many sexual partners women in various age group say they’ve had. As I have not consented to be a participant in any such study, no thank you.

        This conversation got me re-thinking it. I’d be tempted to lay it on with a trowel, and embarrass the $hit out of whoever is asking! In my current practice, which has records of my outright refusal, including the little fact that I’m a sexual abuse/assault survivor, and for one thing I find this discussion and ‘test’ quite triggering, If someone asks, I’ll tell them they obviously have not read my records… if they persist and want details…

        “What do you mean by ‘sex’? Do I only count coitus, or other sexual activities, such as oral, anal, manual, or using ‘marital aids’? Do you mean consensual sex? Does that include that which happened before I was to the age of consent? Giving or receiving? How about phone sex? How about voyeurism or frotterism (someone rubbing up against you, often done without consent)?”

        If they want “the total”, I’ll go on to explain that my memories of when I was less than 5 are probably unreliable. However, the first thing I remember about being alive was someone sexually abusing me. Also, two cases of sexual assault happened in medical settings – which is in my medical records which they clearly haven’t read.

        If they only want the ones that happened over the age of consent, my objection will be whether they are really asking to get medical history, or do they want my memoirs? See, when I was a toddler, I was called “slut” (as well as other sexual slurs) enough that it lost its shock value before it could be developed. As an adult, I was doing the best I could with what I had. HOWEVER, it will take me some time to write out my memoirs. After I’ve done that, I’ll PUBLISH them – I might as well make some money while I’m about it. See, people will pay for fulfilling their prurient interests that you are asking for free. I’ll come back after you buy the book.

        If they come up with “It’s for your own good…. for your health…”, I’ve got another comeback. “The main person who sexually abused me from when I was a toddler until I was 12 often explained it by he was trying to get the demons out of me. He was paranoid schizophrenic. As an agnostic atheist, I think there’s a low chance that demons are possessing anyone. It’s hard to give it a probability, but let’s say 1:10,000. As there are 160M women in the US (granted some of them are children, and some have had hysterectomies, and some of them are very elderly), and roughly 14K cases of CC in a given year, that’s less than 1:10,000. Thus, I give this nonconsensual penetration of me less chance of being what you say than I do the schizophrenic doing it for demon possession. There are many other cancers with a greater chance to cause a problem – so why all of the focus on this one? I don’t think you’re crazy, and you can do math too.

        It doesn’t seem reasonable to put in all of this effort and cost for such a rare occurrence. At $33B per year spent in the US on screening, testing, and treating CC, that’s over $2M for each case.Considering that ~4K die of CC, that’s a maximum of 10K who might be helped by this treatment, each of them costs $3.3M. Certainly, there are many other conditions where we can treat and save people for under $3.3M a pop!

        I probably won’t do this, and almost certainly not all of it, but it’s a good thing to have in my back pocket if I need it. It felt good to write this out, as I made the appointment yesterday for my annual visit to the doctor for my diabetes, and it’ll be asked – unknowable what amount of coercion they’ll try. In reality, the tool I’ll keep ready is, “I’m going to have to seek legal advice before I acquiesce to vaginal or anal penetration against my consent, and in apparent violation of ‘the patients bill of rights’ posted in the waiting area. I do not think that it’s legal, much less ethical, to use coercion, a type of force, in the form of refusing to treat me for the #7 cause of death which we already know I have, in order to penetrate my vagina and/or anus.”

    • So sorry to hear your account, Michelle. Sounds just like my first experience more than 30 years ago. I take it the nurse didn’t even bother to announce what she was going to do, to actually get consent for all this? No, of course not, women are just dead meat to have procedures done on them after all. All part of being a woman and something we have to normalise, according to these creeps.

      So sad that these attitudes haven’t changed a jot, but I’m glad your daughters friend formed the right opinion of it all and will hopefully stand firm against further demands. I’m sad my daughter made the decision to get hers done. There was no way I would have accompanied her, or assisted her to have it in any way at all. She hasn’t spoken about it with us, and I reckon it was peer pressure from friends that persuaded her. Certainly wouldn’t have got that from me! Some consolation is that the next one may be 5 years away, if they manage to change the system in spite of the baying idiots creating more and more petitions. I hope so.

      Another interesting piece of news I heard from my job in the NHS is that HIV testing is now opt out, should you find yourself getting a blood test for whatever reason in a hospital. This will be men as well as women, as apparently there are a fair number of hetero men out there who have HIV without knowing it, believing it to be solely a gay man’s issue. There’s a link between HIV and cervical cancer. One doctor told me women with HIV are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. It’s about time they came up with STI testing for men. Why should we women bear the burden of these invasive tests and questions all our lives, while men are free to spread it all around thinking they are not to blame? I’m hoping that catching these men and treating them will do more to prevent women getting cervical cancer than smear tests ever did, and am hoping this is another tool that will bring about the end of cervical screening completely before too long.

    • Those Wuhan restrictions. Look how quickly their attitude changed when challenged.
      Sorry for such a bitter learning experience.
      Now teach her how to say NO! Or STOP!
      Terrible experience. So sorry.

    • Oh, Michelle, that’s appalling.So not only was your young friend’s first test an awful experience due to a callous nurse – and yes, they ARE allowed to use lube, albeit sparingly, so she’s either ignorant or has a sadistic streak – but to also be railroaded into other dubious health checks during the appointment? So much for informed consent. This isn’t just a bad attitude, but an abuse of authority.
      The sooner we introduce self-testing here in the UK and deprive these egomaniacs of the power they have over vulnerable patients, the better.
      I’m almost 50 and I’ve never had a routine breast check, and I don’t believe it’s the norm – certainly not in this day and age – to have a breast check during a cervical screening appointment.

      And I absolutely agree that all those intrusive questions are nothing more than data mining exercises.

    • Why on earth does a 25 year old with (presumably) no signs or reports of breast complications or complaints need a non-clinically required “breast check”?!

  11. Mng Michelle that poor poor girl! And in 2022 they still do breast checks? Absolutely bloody appalling. Hope your young friend manages to put this behind her. Thinking of you and her. X

    • Hi Kat Rehman, I have had a look on the website of the Surgery we went to this morning (its not the one I am registered with) Under “clinics” it states “Cervical Smears – With the practice nurse by appointment. We recommend 3 yearly checks for women up to 50 and 5 yearly checks for women between 50 and 65. Breast examination technique, blood pressure check and urine testing available.”

      when they say “breast examination technique” I read that to be that you will be coerced into having your breasts examined weather you want to or not” I had my breasts checked at all three smears I had at age 18, 21, and 24. for the first two I was given an internal examination too.

      • Michelle that’s truly appalling! I guess I should be grateful I “only” had a few smears, though I had the questions about periods and number of partners, I declined to engage about partners !!

  12. Hi Michelle,
    Many women are made “aware”of screening from an early age , but until they actually experience the test physically, and find and feel exactly what this entails it doesn’t become an eye opener until then, this first experience can be a make or break for many with regards to abandoning or continuation of screening, it sounds like your daughters friend had one of the more unpleasant experiences, but from what you had written it sounded like she had already made her mind up about being tested, all that can be done in this case is to be supportive ,now she has had first hand experience of screening show her the testing facts and figures of incidents and accuracy and armed with this she will be able to make a rational choice in the future.
    Hugs Jules x.

  13. I can’t say I’m surprised..

    It “only takes a minute” they say, yet it doesn’t does it? And they always try and make it as degrading as possible, hence the questioning about periods and sexual activity, breast exams, leaving the speculum in for as long as possible etc.

    • Every time I hear them say “it’ll only take a minute” I think, yeah, a few minutes for them. But for myself and many of us the traumatic memories last a lifetime.

  14. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505801/Doctors-working-biggest-shake-breast-cancer-screening-30-years.html#comments

    This appeared recently in the Daily Fail, but they’re not giving up so easily. They’re thinking of replacing the current test with a risk score. Can just see that panicking even more people. Again, it is always women need, must, should get a test. Never women may choose not to have it at all, as no difference in all cause mortality.

    • Hmmm!! I agree with Ms Kenny here in the article.
      And whatever they trot out, I won’t be “accepting “ any “invitations “! I’ll seek help if I find anything unusual!
      Interesting that the women surveyed by Ellie Cannon thought screens were essential and they wouldn’t be here without their (maybe unnecessary) treatment!

  15. Hi ladies,
    Yet another doctor has been suspended by the GMC pending a police investigation, this animal worked at a hospital in the Stoke area of the north midlands , and worked as a paediatrician, he had been arrested in 2018 because of similar complaints but no charges were brought because of lack of evidence, he was suspended by the hospital after two separate incidents one involving a seven year old and one girl of fifteen, (and the screening services wonder why people have little trust in them)this news is quite new and the police have only just released a statement saying that a thirty four year old man is under arrest in connection with complaints made by nine individuals, now
    doesn’t that make you want to go and get naked in front of them and let them do their little bit of fiddling, if this bastard is guilty they should execute him on live television .
    Hugs Jules x.

  16. Hi ladies,
    The post by Michelle struck a chord with my own experience of screening and was one of the reasons i stopped attending, I must apologise before hand as it goes on quite a bit.
    My story
    Having completed uni i found my way back home and settled back in helping mom around the house in between sending out my cvs and full of optimism and youthful exuberance for the future. After around four months I had an interview with a company that was one of the ones at the top of my list, and two weeks after my interview received conformation I had been accepted, although getting to and from work could take over an hour and half each way, after three weeks of this decided to find somewhere nearer, dad helped massively I think he was trying to get rid of me ha ha . Eventually we found the ideal place only about twenty minutes from work it was a bit pricey but again dad helped out ( bless him)
    Feeling all grown up I set up all my direct debits changed my registered address to relevant paperwork and revelled in my new found independence.
    Mom phoned one evening to say I had a letter from the NHS to screen ( my 25th was two months later) I arranged an appointment for a couple of weeks later with them and dutifully attended ,it was with the nurse and not at all comfortable although not too painful it felt very unpleasant after I had left I was unsure how I felt about it, my concerns passed over time , now fast forward three years and another test was issued , I decided to register myself with a new practice it was just too far to go to my old surgery so found one only two miles away with ok reviews I booked an afternoon off and popped in on my way home the receptionist was helpful and seemed nice I filled in the forms and was told that at my next visit I would need to bring in an i d such as a passport or birth certificate and a utility bill with name and address on she then said I would be under the care of a doctor Lesley …….
    Wow that’s a bonus a female doc
    I left on a high almost skipping out the surgery, two weeks passed and i turned up for my appointment I went to the receptionist (a different one) and stated the reason for my visit and she asked if I would require a chaperone I answered no it’s fine
    and sat down awaiting my test a little anxious but in control they had a electronic message board above the receptionist desk which buzzed and you’re name came up with which room to go to off I went down the corridor looking for room 1c , I took a deep breath and knocked the door ,enter a rather deep voice answered I opened the door standing with it half open I said I’m sorry I think I have the wrong room who are you after he said , I’m after doctor Lesley ……. that’s me he said please come in and take a seat somewhat shaken I explained I expected a lady he gave a little laugh and said I’m afraid you have to blame my mom and dad for my name but don’t worry it happens all the time. He said that my records had been transferred to them from my old surgery but they were incomplete and could I answer a few questions to bring them up to date before any exams started sure I answered we like to provide excellent service to each individual registered with us so we like to have a complete and full history of all patients,
    can you remember at what age you had your first period , this caught my completely off guard and I found myself answering automatically 13
    and at what age did you become sexually active 19
    I couldn’t actually believe how these questions were relevant anxiety was now screaming skyward
    number of intimate partners was the next question 2 long term boyfriends I answered
    and during these encounters did anal or oral sex occur, at this I kind of snapped back into reality
    and said I’m sorry but I’ve become increasingly uncomfortable with this line of questioning and I think I’m going to leave now , and at that I picked up my bag and headed for the door he did call after me twice but I didn’t acknowledge him and left all the way home I couldn’t believe what had just happened, the feeling of unease was overwhelming as soon as i arrived home the laptop went on and I tried to find a legitimate reasons for these questions, some did come up in relation to questions asked at an Sti clinic scrolling through the web is when I came across fweo and from that moment on knew that screening was not for me, to this day I don’t know if these were legit questions or information the doctor wanted ? for whatever reason and if they were legit why did the surgery not ring to ask why I did not take the test ?
    Sorry about the massive post , but this believe it or not is the condensed version , my diaries go a whole lot further, I know this pales into insignificance with some of the others stories on here , but at the time it was very concerning to me and
    besides Annette you are the only others that now know my story.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Yes, this line of questioning is one that has DATABASE written all over it. If you had not consented to participate in research, this is inappropriate.

      You could use my current idea of what to do: Leave, saying that it would take some time to write out all of the details, at which time you’d publish your Memoirs for prurient interests, and he could buy a copy.

    • I think database is one reason they ask for this information. I’ve also heard that health care “providers” sell information to third parties.
      Another reason is speculative on my part and I just think some of them are just damn creepy and either get a kick out of it or want to monitor women’s sexual activity. Either way, they can hide behind their profession to disguise their real reasons for asking these intrusive questions.

      Another major red flag that occurred to me was that he did not offer you the opportunity to reschedule your appointment with a nurse or female doctor upon learning that you were expecting a lady.

      He clearly did not have your wellbeing, comfort or best interests in mind and I think you were right to listen to your instincts. I bet you gave him a surprise when you walked out of the door too as these people are not used to hearing the word “no” are they (particularly from young women).

      Good for you for standing up for yourself but I am sorry you went through those experiences x

      • Hi AQ,
        I don’t think I was being brave or defiant
        I just think survival mode kicked in because I felt so uncomfortable and uneasy , if his motives were unjust I hope I worried him enough to change his ways.
        Hugs Jules x.

    • OMG Jules, that is awful. Total respect to you that you followed your instincts and left. That is SO hard to do.

      It was totally amiss of that surgery to not tell you that he was a male. You would not have been the first patient to have thought he was a ‘she’.

  17. Just seen the cervical screening advert on TV ‘I’m doing it for my family, I’m doing it for me’. Emotional blackmail. Of course no mention of the vast amount of unnecessary treatment and no respect for informed choice. Makes me sick.

    • Me too Gem! I found the ad online! I’m doing the not screening thing for me, and as I ❤️ My cervix I’m keeping it away from the cervical screening programme, and full stop I don’t even want to receive invites to ignore so I’ve opted out! I’m now going in search of the vomit bucket

      • I haven’t seen it on TV. I don’t watch much TV so dont know if its targeted at a daytime audience or evening in the Coronoation Street advert breaks. I think this is it that I found on Youtube

        As you say Kat Rehman i am looking under the sink for the vomit bucket, its cringeworthy.

  18. Jules, I’m so sorry what u went through! Anyone would have reacted and felt as u did that “doctor “ was waaayy OTT ! And wtf with the did oral occur?? What these ppl do to women is appalling and just GOT TO STOP!! X

    • Oh dear ladies! As some of you may know, I am an Officer of my Trade Union, and my misguided Union is backing a smear test on demand campaign! I’m always very respectful of peoples health, and don’t tend to get behind initiatives such as persuading my colleagues to get flu jabs for example. I don’t feel I can do much as I don’t screen and have alternative views on healthcare! Not really sure what I can do here! It’s not a cop out, but I have enough already with the current issues, but I’ll have a think…

      • Oh for heaven’s sake. They’re backing a non evidence based campaign that will cause harm. I suppose you could show them the outcome of previous parliamentary discussions and what Jo’s Trust have said about testing below 25 etc. to point out that they are not backing something officially endorsed by the healthcare community (albeit that screening itself is and we all know the problems with that!). However, of course, it’s up to you as to whether you have the mental energy to take that on as I imagine you’ll get an earful back from the brainwashed. I’m not sure I would but I would find it so galling to have to listen to that nonsense and the ensuing discussions. Sorry to hear you find yourself in that position.

      • Tell them it’s a rape-on-demand campaign. Can you educate them? Talk it out? Have a vote of no-confidence? Surely if they see a woman put their hand up and say ‘No, and this is why!’, they’ll start to think differently. Most men have ZERO idea of what a pap smear procedure is.

  19. Hello everyone,
    Well it had to happen!!

    I have been working away a lot over the last few weeks and haven’t posted on here as much as I did at the end of last year. As I mentioned a few weeks ago I have now registered with a new GP after getting struck off by the last one and a couple of weeks back had a run in with a receptionist over my opting out of cervical screening. When I am away working, I am often on another time zone and I have an app running on my phone so only my husband or parents can call me. All other calls don’t even go to voicemail it just lets the phone ring and ring. I saw over the last week or so I have had a number of missed calls from a withheld number. This morning I was up and about getting ready to go shopping when I get another call from a withheld. It might be someone trying to get compensation from the car accident I had years ago but it might be someone else. It was indeed someone else and a call that I was expecting and both half dreading and also mischievously looking forward to.
    “Hello is that, Jessica? Its Rebecca here from the surgery I am one of the clinical leads here” she went on to try and get a rapport by talking about the weather etc. I asked what was this call was aid of as I was busy. “Well so-and-so on reception tells me you have opted out of cervical screening and I just thought id give you a call to ask why, can I ask why?”
    “you cant I’m afraid as quite frankly its none of your business”. This really took the wind out of her sails as the must have thought she had snared me in her trap.
    “It’ really important you come in as according to my records you have NEVER been screened” (never? Lock me up, paint a cross on my forehead, I am clearly a dangerous person to be around spreading HPV around the neighbourhood) “never have been never will be, I have made an informed decision not to screen and my decision is my choice, its final, and non negotiable” I retorted.
    “Ahh well you see, if your not screened it may well limit the choice of contraception we can offer you, we are running a program to encourage women to get screened for the next month and we can make an appointment that works for you” I was half expecting this and had my answer well rehearsed “Oh really? Does this mean that you and your vagina police are going to come round to our house, kidnap my husband, shove him in your stirrups and reverse his vasectomy? He had it over three years ago so even if you did manage to reconnect him, chances are there is a blockage somewhere else and the reversal wouldn’t work”.
    “There is no need to be like that Jessica we are only trying to help you, and you seem to have an answer for everything”. “I do indeed” I replied “Is there anything else can help you with today? Please be quick as I have a lot to do”. At this point the phone went dead and she hung up on me. How professional!
    Hopefully I have heard the last on this and they will stop harassing and coercing me. I will let you know.


    • You’re a legend! 👍😁👏😅🤣

      Kudos to you for challenging them and having them over a barrel like that!

      I am amazed that they keep trying even when you have made it perfectly clear that you are not interested! They could not get a clearer and more adamant message and they still keep pushing the, “we’ll make you an appointment” line, even though they run the risk of humiliating themselves further.

      What annoys me is that they also think that they can invade women’s personal and professional time to push this nonsense when they have already had a perfectly unambiguous NO.

      They are either dumb, desperate or both! Maybe the screening figures for their surgery are nose diving!

    • That was awesome Jess, good on you! I can’t believe how much time and energy they put into harassing women with this stupid test!

      • Thanks Apocalyptic Queem and Ozphoenix. I didn’t feel awesome as I was speaking my mind I was actually shaking and when I put the phone down I burst into tears, so in a way she has won.

      • Jess, you did a great job. Those tears show exactly how much needless stress and pain you were put through for something you decided – as a responsible adult -you didnt want.

        ‘No thanks’ should have been enough to make them leave you alone. That it wasn’t is a shocking testament to their lack of respect and abuse of authority.

      • I am so sorry you felt like that Jess. The harrassment is beyond the pale.

        But I suspect she wouldn’t have felt as though she won though. She ultimately failed to get another bonus from screening and she was outwitted at every turn.

        I can understand the pressure is relentless though. I avoid doctors mostly for this reason!

    • Kudos for standing up to them! Honestly, a hard “NO” would just have been warrented. Why do we have to deal with this harrassment all the time if we don’t want this exam. Don’t they realize that they are creating stress by mentioning these things. i remember 2 years ago when i kept getting letters “oh you are due for your pap smear, please schedule” when i said i will call if i have any problems!

      • If they create stress, they can do a medication cascade – high blood pressure meds, antidepressant meds, anti-anxiety meds. Possibly anti-diabetes meds, and thyroid meds which can figure into stress. They might even get some cardiac tests/problems/meds to go along with all of that. Lets not forget the cholesterol meds. Then the side effects, and drug interactions – multi-way drug interactions are almost unstudied.

    • If the phone went dead, I think that’s your win, Jess. Disgusting that they clearly feel they have the right to withhold contraception for a smear test. Things haven’t changed for decades have they? These people are vile.

      • The pill is available online, although I recognise that does not override the principle.

        I suffer from terrible PMS and heavy periods and am self-treating myself with Microgynon bought on Superdrug online at a cost of around £25 for six months.

        I have a blood pressure monitor at home too. I feel really bad for those who cannot afford to go down that route or are held to ransom over other prescriptions that are necessary to their health.

        It makes me wonder, how many women have avoided going to see the doctors due to serious health complications or have ignored lumps and other worrisome symptoms over this?

        It really is completely unacceptable.

    • GOOD FOR YOU!!!
      Same reason why my husband got snipped.
      You gof them to expose themselves for what they really are.
      Parasites. Insincere at that.
      I despise them.
      And when you need help post menopause guess what they’ll offer.
      They don’t give a damn about sex quality, whether there’s incontinence or a rectocele or anything.

  20. Jess…. RESPECT! to u!! And no, she didn’t win you did!! Another nail in the programme’s coffin!
    Thanks for all your support re; my mental union colleagues! Thankfully it’s not my workplace and at the other end of the country, my members certainly won’t hear about it from me and if they mention it I’ll go from there! It’s the same old; an Officer wouldn’t be here now if it wasn’t for screening and she can’t understand why women are being denied tests and dying before 25( because the doctors don’t follow the protocols maybe and give internals or follow up but just dismiss it as periods/ Pill issues?) they say if a woman wants a smear and a nurse agrees then they should b smeared groan…..

    • My position is that if these women and their “health care providers” are foolish enough to believe a smear on demand will help them and they accept the risks of overtreatment, or are ignorant to it in the face of the evidence, I say let them get on with it.

      Problem is, they would never be happy with that and insist that all women are coerced into screening from an incredulously young age for their “own good” and because “everyone else is having it” 🙄

      • AQ they take the view that 50% of the members are women so they should be campaigning on womens issues!! If such a massive body as the union gets behind it all…. I agree, it’s mad

  21. Saw that ridiculous NHS TV advert last night. I just find the whole system outrageous. I went once in my 20s, found it painful, was a bit traumatised by it (couldn’t stop shaking for a few days) and never went back. It’s an extremely invasive health test – regardless of how they frame it, it is NOT mandatory. I just bin the letters and get on with my life. I refuse to live my life believing cancer is always waiting to pounce. As many of you have said – they’re not bullying men like this.

    • Indeed. They are not bothering people who don’t do the bowel screening kit nor do they pester women as much about breast screening, and breast and bowel cancers are far more common than cervical cancer ever was or will be!

      • Come to think of it, I got a summons to make an appointment for a mammogram ages ago, and don’t seem to have received the follow up letter suggesting I’m an irresponsible, illiterate thicko. Perhaps they’ve given up with me.

      • Thanks Adawells, I needed a good laugh! 🙂

        I’ll use that if I ever get into a slanging match with a doctor. ‘I’m sorry I’m an illiterate thicko for not screening…’.


      • Apocalyptic Queen. Why is there so much pestering about pap scrape and pelvic exams?
        Because it’s fun. For them.
        Beats green snot, sore throats and bad breath. Fevers and Wuhan too.
        Plus the depressing “real” cancer diagnosis.
        Pap always means talking about sex. Not their own of course, only the patient’s.

  22. I’m off to find the vomit bucket as well: even in the US, they have been showing commericals of people getting their pap smear. i saw one on valentine’s day, and nearly ughed at the tv when they showed it. Numbers must be really down for them to be promoting this crap! And nothing about informed choice and false positives from that screening.

    • They’re really laying it on thick. I’ve just seen ‘celebrity’ Scarlett Moffett talking about how hers probably saved her life when she had ‘abnormal cells’ and how she is passionate about ‘educating women’. Then, the usual cast of characters such as Dr Zoe Williams and I imagine that harridan Dr Sarah will pop up to berate women at some point too. I also saw one survey by a newspaper asking ‘Do you regularly attend your screening when called?” Choices are “Yes” “No, but I will in future” “No, I need more advice” and “I am not required to”. Required??? It’s an optional screening test with both risks and benefits. How about an option “I have made an informed choice not to” – it doesn’t even feature in the discussion.

      • How many of you noticed that emotionally manipulative women’s health BS ad during StuporBowl?
        Seeing a black recording star whore herself for these instilled in US a desire to drink more alcohol to forget and then to change channels.
        The NFL (Never F****** Lying) corporation treats its cheer leaders like corporate prostitutes. Complete with no-tell clauses and below minimum wage pay while mandating how they will dress and live outside their whore jobs.
        And of course, we all know, convincingly, that the NFL hired the “best*” medical personnel to boldly prove that its violent play (without adequate medical long term care of course) doesn’t cause CTE or brain rot.
        And what does * stand for?
        Hiring so called doctors to rule on CTE who have zero qualifications to study it.
        Sorta like doctors treating us here like we don’t know what we’re talking about.

  23. Hi ladies,
    Only three days into the campaign and already sick to the back teeth of it, but there is a bright side to it surely after a whole month of this crap even the most staunch supporters will get tired of it and beg for a respite, and these no name celebs who endorse the program are not really bothered about female healthcare they are more worried that they haven’t been in the news or television for a while , so would sign up to anything just to get back in the limelight or as me and Annette call them attention whores .
    And to jess a big salute ,way to go girl.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • When you think about it…
      Something is wrong with our legal system…
      Doctors and nurses everyday bully women into the stirrups…
      Forcefully penetrating a woman’s innermost body parts…
      Causing blood loss, pain, and emotional trauma…that’s never forgotten.
      The Crown usually prosecutes sexual assaults…but rarely if ever…for sexual assault under medical guises…
      And for the crime of forcing women to endure a 50% accurate medical test? Nothing. No prosecution. Ever.
      Create a fake cancer cure? Or a fake Wuhan cure? Prison time and becoming a social pariah results.
      The perpetrator likely sentenced between 5-20 years…
      So while a mugger or rapist will do time…a doctor or nurse never will.
      Because it’s still chic today to coerce, lie to, bully, and forcefully penetrate a woman’s innermost sacred body parts for a Pap Scrape (smear) medical test which has little value.
      Why? Isn’t there something better?
      Delphi Screener.
      I’m not getting paid for this but neither are any of you for what you do. We’re fighting for ourselves and the women becoming teens tomorrow.
      That first period not only signifies a girl’s transformation into a young woman, it also starts the clock a-ticking. And every receptionist on the phone, every “invitation” mailed, every doctor or nurse is waiting to tell these first-timers what they want to hear.
      Quick. Easy. Painless. No loss of dignity. No trauma.
      No problem if the girl isn’t ready, or is scared, or has already been traumatized.
      Those medical professionals are waiting. Waiting. When quotas are reached, so are bonus payments.
      Conflict of Interest? Shhhhh. Don’t whisper that in clinic where these are performed.
      Don’t let the significant other know it’s a good idea they go to offer support.
      For that support means another Scrape, oops, errr, I mean, Smear Test, and another payment afterward might not happen.
      Time this was stopped.

  24. After my experiences on Monday with my daughter’s friend Hannah, and Jules sharing her story on Tuesday, I have a question for everyone on here. In all of the leaflets that I get sent “inviting” me to go for a smear test all of the show a woman (or a person with a cervix) laying on a normal style couch, however in reality it’s a lot different. Hannah had to lay on a couch with her legs in Stirrups (the nurse adding that it’s much more comfortable to have a smear taken that way). All of my three smears I had to go in the stirrups too. Are stirrups a lottery and mainly they are used, and not using them is a rarity?
    My experiences of having a smear on the NHS are not pleasant but like Jules I thought I’d share them with you:

    First smear aged 18 in 1988, three months after going on the pill. I had it sprung on me that to get a further supply of microgynon I needed to attend the surgery on a Friday afternoon for an appointment with a male Dr and a female nurse in the room. Just told I had to have a smear there and then, nothing explained as to what it involved. I had to undress totally and put a front opening gown on and had my weight and height checked. I had a breast examination with my hands behind my head and with the gown open I might have well been naked. I had a smear taken while in stirrups followed by a full pelvic examination (two fingers in the vagina while pressing on my tummy with the other hand). Both procedures weren’t just uncomfortable they bloody well hurt and I was told I was just making a fuss when I said they hurt.

    Second smear aged 21 in 1991. Same as the above only with a female Dr. Last appointment of the day and they had run out of gowns so I was examined totally naked. Although she apologised for not having any gowns left, when I said I was uncomfortable about undressing she told me not to worry as she sees women’s bodies all the time (but what about me ??) and that I needed to hurry up as she needed to get away.

    Third smear aged 24 in 1991. Seen by a female nurse, again smear taken while laying in stirrups. I only had to undress from the waist down this time, but afterwards I had to take my top half off and she did a cursory breast examination.

    Forward wind to 2022 and I am told by those who have gone for a smear at the surgery where I am currently registered that they don’t use stirrups for smears (it’s a small village surgery). Are stirrups a thing of the past or is it just a lottery if they are used or not?

    • I’ve never had one so I don’t know. But all the doctors offices I’ve been in have a table with NO stirrups. I’m in Australia, btw.

      I don’t see any good reason why a woman has to take all her clothes off, to have a smear. That definitely sounds perverted to me.

      Pants off only is completely sufficient. I think you have cause for complaint over the ones you had where they did that.

      In Australia, doctors very rarely ask you to undress and put a gown on, in a GP’s office. I can say that I’ve never done that.

      It’s a good idea to refuse!

      In america they seem to do that as ‘routine’, no matter what you’re there for. Bloody refuse!!!

    • Hi Michelle,
      Just opt out and it really doesn’t matter if they use stirrups or not , it won’t bother you, if they persist in trying it on ,use scary tactics on them and tell them they shouldn’t keep going on about it because the voices in your head are telling you to attack them, and then laugh. I would love have the nerve to say this and watch the expression on their face.

      • Hi Jules,
        I checked through my medical records some years ago and this GP actually wrote in 1996 that “she is vehemently opposed to the cervical screening programme”. In any other procedure this would be a clear no, and an indication that patient has not given consent. She should have been giving me the opt out form there and then, but she forced 2 tests on me after writing this in my notes. Consent is an unknown concept to them.

    • I’ve never seen stirrups in any GP surgery. Like you my first was for the pill in mid 1980s and this was a smear test and my only ever breast exam. Honestly, where is the evidence for doing this in 25 year olds ffs? Next was a smear test against my will by a new GP as it was a “requirement during pregnancy” in 1990s. I still didn’t know how to opt out at this stage and thought this GP could make life very difficult for me if I didn’t comply. I had requested a homebirth and knew she could pull the rug on this for the slightest reason. Unfortunately, she was very rough and made me bleed. That meant that the sample was useless, so all for nothing.

      I actually did get my request to birth at home, but sustained a 2nd degree tear which was left unstitched, as couldn’t be carried out at home. I was very tender down there and was going to raise it at my postnatal assessment, along with significant breastfeeding problems. At the time of my postnatal assessment I was ushered into a room by the nurse and told to remove my lower clothing. After that I was basically assaulted as the GP came in and without saying a word, rammed a large sized metal speculum into me. I clenched shut in horror but she forced it in, took the sample and left the room. I almost fainted with the pain as I’d had birth injuries from giving birth only 6 weeks before. Not a word about how I was coping with motherhood, couldn’t give a damn about my baby, who I ‘d got feeding concerns about. I was deeply traumatised by this experience for weeks afterwards. No, nothing gets in the way of carrying out their smear tests, not even the well being of mother and baby at first postnatal appointment. Since then the rules have changed: smear tests are not to be carried out during pregnancy or before 12 weeks postpartum, so when I next got pregnant, said GP moaned about my overdue smear test and said she would do it postnatally. I made sure there was no postnatal follow-up from that bitch in any shape or form and never had another smear test. I found out how to opt out after that. Hope said GP is now dead, or at least suffering from an extremely painful debilitating terminal illness. She deserves it.

      • Hi adawells,
        I had to read this post a couple of times the way you were treated was way beyond horrific and it made me feel quite queasy thinking about how you must of felt mentally and physically at the time having a child should be one of the happiest moments in a woman’s life and she should certainly not be subjected to this kind of brutality, I join you in wishing this person a slow, painful and lingering death .
        Hugs Jules x.

    • No stirrups the one time I went in South London about 2008. Never had breast check. I’m sorry about your experiences – why the hell would she think you would be happy to lie there naked??? They treat women like pieces of meat to be groped. And for what?

    • No stirrups when I went the one time I went in 2008 in South London. Why on earth would that Dr think it was ok or appropriate for you to be completely naked??? They treat women like pieces of meat. And for what?

  25. Hi ladies,
    John snow house, Durham university science park, Durham
    DH1 3YG.
    Some here maybe familiar with this address for the benefit of others it’s the headquarters of the NHS cervical screening administration service. After yet another advert for screening appeared on telly , which by the way put me right off my breakfast ,and feeling a little bit mischievous i sent an email thanking them for taking the initiative and highlighting their campaign to bring it to the attention of the female population and due to my age it would apply to myself soon
    ( a little fib )
    I also said that because of the campaign I had searched for further information off the NHS website and while reading the supplied information it mentions that the test is a choice
    Something that I didn’t know ,
    and because of this new found information thanks to their campaign which had encouraged me search for more information had led to me of making the choice to opt out .

    I hope this makes them choke on their fu. ….. g breakfast
    Hugs Jules x.

  26. Ewww Michelle that’s awful! None of the smears I had (last one in 2000) were done in stirrups, our surgery then didn’t have them. I escaped the breast exams too, not “offered” them, though I would have refused! I was very lucky the Pill and I didn’t get on, so they couldn’t hold that, or indeed any other contraception, to ransom. Don’t know if my current surgery does them in stirrups, though I’ve not seen any in the nurses room when I’ve gone for bloods or my EKG I had. So sorry you went through all that x. I’m in UK too btw

    • Adawells and Kat Rehman, your experiences sound terrible as well. I am now a cynical middle aged old bat aged 52 and if anyone tried to coerce me into getting this done now they would get the full force of sarcastic mouth. Its hard to picture though back to 34 years or when we were coerced/forced into having these tests and being made to feel they are mandatory.

      • It was an appalling time, and shocking that only 30 years ago our human rights were totally abused by this screening test. During the 1990’s there were some politicians who were actually asking for it to be made mandatory, but also others who spoke of how well-to-do ladies in their constituencies were being harassed by raging surgery staff over screening. It can all be found by doing a search in the Hansard parliamentary debates, which are freely available online.

        If you think back about the 1980s it was when AIDS first started and was seen as a genuine plague. There was a huge amount of fear about it. ‘m sure that cervical screening was forced on women in response to the government wanting to implement a form of compulsory STI control. There would have been outrage if any STI tests were forced on men, so women bore the brunt of these interventions.

  27. Just day four of week one of Cervical Screening Propaganda Month. Just seen this on you tube, a “staged” video. If the process only takes 5 minutes how come its broad daylight when “Laura” goes in but pitch dark when she comes out ???

    Sadly the comments are disabled so I cannot ask why!
    #BeThatFriend (who tells you that screening is a total waste of time)


    • Can’t bear to watch this tripe, Jess, but I’ve seen a number of videos showing women being told they have cervical cancer. There is no way that cameras would be allowed to film personal appointments at hospitals or GP surgeries, or even be allowed to film the entrances to such premises with other patients being around. All staged.

  28. Hi ladies,
    Yet another serving police officer
    47 yo David Carrick has been arrested for sex attacks on four different women, this and that pervert doctor from Stoke interfering with girls in his care we would probably be safer living in a cave in a remote area of the outer Hebrides
    Hugs Jules x.

    • “I’m a doctor not an abusive sex pervert!”
      When McCoy on Star Trek was accused of insisting on pap scrape instead of using tricorder to diagnose.

  29. Hi ladies,
    Maybe we are being a little harsh on the male doctor issue, but I think I have a solution, castration this was an accepted condition of males attending females in the oriental in bygone years known as eunuchs these men were devoid of sexual excitement due to the loss of their nuts and lack of testosterone so maybe we should start a campaign ourselves any male who wants to serve in female healthcare should get them chopped before he treats women, I’m sure they would agree as it will only feel like mild cramping or a little scratch and there’s no need for anaesthetic.
    Sorry I’m a bit drunk.
    Hugs Jules x.

  30. Hi Adawells,
    “Writing vehemently opposed to screening ”and yet still subjected you to two further tests, sadists such as this creature should have no place in society let alone healthcare, the monetary issue may well of played a small part in this ,but in this case I think she just enjoyed being cruel, just take some comfort in knowing that this will never happen again ever.
    Hugs Jules x.

  31. Jules, they are just obsessed by this test to exclusion of all else
    Just after I officially opted out in 2015, I was diagnosed with severe anaemia. The doctor who pushed me most about smears was the one I saw to discuss the anaemia. He mentioned sending me for the test where you have a camera down your throat and up your bum, and I point blank refused and said I wanted to try improving diet and iron tablets first. There is no way I’d EVER consent to ANYTHING up my bum. He seemed fine with my refusal of a test related to a diagnosed condition. He then spent the rest of the time trying to get me to have a smear!! Now by then my periods were virtually nothing, and so irregular with menopause, so I really didn’t think my cervix or vagina was an issue, and anyway I’d opted out and kept telling him , I opted out and signed a disclaimer! I must have repeated it 5 times before he took my point! And 7 years on I’m still here so……!

  32. I know periods aren’t affected by smears I meant as no periods no heavy blood flow so that’s not causing anaemia and I had no gynae symptoms anyway!
    I avoided the surgery for a few years after, I didn’t want more smear hassle, but to be fair when I had my disc problem in 2020, my x rays and diagnosis were explained to me by the same “Dr Smear Test” as I nicknamed him. On this occasion, he dealt with the problem of my discs, explaining it, answered my questions, issued pain relief and insisted the 2 weeks i asked to be signed off for wasn’t enough and wrote a 6 week sick note, and never mentioned smears at all!!

  33. Hi kat,
    I think it’s too much to believe that he saw the light and became a convert, it’s more likely he remembered your last run in with him and he just didn’t want the hassle again.
    Hugs Jules x.

  34. Hi ladies,
    Being a non conformist can be fun, writing the post that told the screening authorities it was thanks to them I had opted out felt bloody good, so I’m afraid I’ve been at it again this time an Email to our favourite charity Jo’s .
    In it I stated my deep concern for their backing of the change from three year to five yearly testing, and that for many years they had been urging women not to miss their appointment or ignore their invites and that if they condone this change they are betraying women as a whole and are a disgrace for the very thing they stand for and that this would never of happened under mr music, and they would no longer have my support financially or morally (as if).
    Hugs (a very naughty) Jules x.

    • *chuckle* 😂

      You could be even more naughty and say you and several people you know regularly (and generously, I might add) donate to Jo’s T0ssers, but as of now, the funding will be drying up and you will be urging all your friends to follow suit as well 👍🤣

  35. Hi ladies can anyone help? A link or info as to what the smear test brush is made of? I said over on Mumsnet there’s a wire in it and someone who takes smears says no wire? I’m sure I read here wire is in it?? Thanks! B good to c some of I over there too, it’s actually a good discussion

    • It is a soft plastic, with longer ‘bristles’ in the middle to go into the os and the rest shaped to go round the transformation zone.

      There are various more hideous versions that are made but I have no idea what they use them for, if they NHS does at all.

      The wooden spatula did not go so far into the os. I think this is why it was ok for me but the ‘soft brush’ is uncomfortable and always causes bleeding.

      I have an ectropian which is probably disturbed. They always tell me about like it is a big deal then say it is nothing to worrry about. As far I can tell most women have them.

      • Kat Rehman and Jan Allen, can you send a link to the mumsnet discussion It might be worth reading.


      • I have an ectropian too. I think mine’s from being on the pill but I’ve read that it’s so common it’s considered to be a normal variation. Some of the more sadistic doctors will try and convince patients to burn off the cells.

  36. Hi kat,
    It seems that they have done away with the ones with wire in them, if you google smear test brush it turns out you can actually buy them ? The bristles are made of plastic there are about ten different ones you can purchase, but looking at them has started to make my skin crawl so that’s as far as I’m going.
    Hugs Jules x.

  37. https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4483117-One-in-three-people-dont-attend-cervical-screening
    This is one about one in three ‘people’ not attending cervical screening. Therefore 2 in 3 people are ie every woman in the country and quite a lot of the men too…… 😀

    https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4485663-To-ask-why-you-ve-missed-delayed-declined-cervical-screening This is in Am I being Unreasonable, asking women why they do not attend (obviously from the above, they all are 😀 ) Most of the reasons are well documented. Plenty of misinformation including the old chestnut about not attending screening giving you cancer.

  38. Hi ladies,
    After Kat posted both Annette and myself tried to search for the pap brushes thing, I posted back about them being made of plastic and that was enough for me,Annette carried on looking she passed her phone to me and said check that out .
    Jesus freaking Christ they sell the test kits on bloody Amazon I’m not talking about self sampling kits , this is the actual medical grade kit .
    In the pack you get a disposable speculum two glass slides a spatula a cervical brush and a sample pot, I know there are some weird people out there with fetish’s but surely this is just too much.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I looked up a few brochures from manufacturers of these “brushes”. Here is is some details from one type of endocervical brush.

      “ Benefits
      Female-friendly one piece brush, without rigid traditional wire and nylon bristle combination.
      Reduced cell damage due to the fine bristle technology.
      The firm yet flexible head with the integrated protective tip limits tissue damage, therefore reducing the negative impact on the examination result.
      A safety ring prevents the brush from entering into the endometrium during the examination, therefore limiting the collection of endometrium cells.”

      You have to wonder about procedures that use rigid wire and nylon. Cause cell damage (isn’t that how the HPV virus enters into the tissue for infection?)
      Makes me question what would be the result when endometrium cells are in the sample?

      • I have been writing about the same things, providing the same information as you just verified.
        Few years ago I sent an email to the CEO of an American company making patient friendly brushes, those with hidden brass or stainless steel bristles.
        Asked if the brushes are friendly enough to use to obtain a sample from his penis.
        No response.
        If possible, find a picture of these brushes with tissue hunks trapped inside after they’ve mauled a woman’s endocervical canal.
        The reason for the stop preventing the brushes from entering uterus? The pain would be extreme.

  39. Oh god, I just had a brief peek at the Mumsnet discussion – a cult of screening hysteria if ever there was one. I beat a hasty retreat when I saw a comment about how women who don’t screen are ‘living in blissful ignorance’ about this ‘amazing test’. The irony – I’ve done more research into said ‘amazing test’ than any other woman I know who thinks it’s their duty to ‘educate the uneducated’ around screening. I can’t read the rest of it lol it’ll make me too angry and I’ll be tempted to set up an account and contribute. That never ends well, nothing you can say can provide any kind of alternative perspective.

    • I have just had a peek over at the mumsnet site too, talk about mass hysterial. I was going to post that I have never gone and never will! Some of the people on there who have also never been or have stopped going seem familiar from another site I look at 🙂 …..


      • I’ve looked at Mumsnet a few times on this issue – they are totally brainwashed into the cervix scrape over there. It’s frightening.

  40. Thanks Jules for helping me out ! And Gem your right. They’re blinded by hysteria over on Mumsnet. I asked why the hysterical outpouring over smears and why don’t we target men and bowel screening. They couldn’t or wouldn’t answer the bowel screening but apparently… well you’ve seen what they say about life saving smears….

  41. Hi Gem,
    “Living in blissful ignorance”
    This comment alone shows who’s really living in ignorance these women believe everything they are spoon fed by the screening authorities and don’t have the capacity or inclination to investigate the information supplied to them any further,
    unlike them I prefer all the facts.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I wouldn’t be at all surprised that members of Jo’s Tosh are trolling these websites, posing as happy Mums who just love getting their smear tests. I know that in the past they’ve told people who contact them to go on social media and promote screening. I’ve seen a few people post about screening at the request of Jo’s. I’m sure their team go on Mumsnet from time to time to stir things up a bit, capture some of the waverers put their propaganda across..

    • Yes indeed….An older colleague of mine took a phone call today and seemed very shaken. When I enquired, she said it was her doctor telling her she ‘has to’ make an appointment to get some polyps cut off her cervix. They were noticed at her smear apparently. The doctor told her they are almost certainly beneign but should still come off ‘just in case’. I asked her if they caused her any problems and she said no, that she wouldn’t even have known they were there. She is so upset understandingly about getting them cut/pulled off but when I said she should think about just leaving them she said no because if it’s cancer she would never forgive herself if she did nothing.
      On another note, I was at a woman’s centre recently and saw a pamphlet about the importance of breast screening. It had a table for my country comparing number of deaths of women of various ages with breast cancer who HAD screening vs NOT screening. Breast screening saves lives the pamphlet said but in actual fact, the difference was so tiny (in the younger age groups only 1 or 2 women difference in favor of screening) I almost laughed if it hadn’t been so sad. I really do question the supposed benefits vs the risks. I will be opting out of the free breast screening programme when I become eligible next year just as I have opted out of the cervical screening.

  42. Good morning Ladies,
    I hope you al had a good weekend. Sorry to keep starting new threads on here but I have just seen something on twitter that has made my blood boil. Dr Rosemary Leonard seems to think its acceptable to shame no shows for screening on twitter:

    Dr Rosemary Leonard:
    I did an extra surgery today doing catch-up smear tests. SEVEN no-shows. Would have been nine but after a phone call two came in. It’s not just bad manners, it’s wasting scarce (weekend!) NHS capacity. There’s something systemically wrong where there are no consequences for this.

    Consequences??? How many of these no shows were forced/coerced/passively persuaded to attend in the first place? This arrogant individual (I nearly wrote something much stronger) needs to be struck off! I really feel for the two women who were called and submitted themselves to this ordeal. Shame on you Dr Rosemary Leonard.


    • Hi Jess,
      If these ladies had been harangued into these appointments and then failed to show, it just about serves her right . ( I hope it really f up her weekend )
      Another point is they keep trying to get swathes of ladies in for testing and around 220,000 in the uk will be found to have “abnormalities”annually who are then referred to colposcopy to decide if they need further procedures , when there are over 300,000 patients already waiting for cancer treatments and a backlog total of over 6,000,000 others waiting for general operations, who the f is going to give all this treatment, i think this cow should be doing a bit more than the odd weekend and moaning about it.
      Hugs Jules x.

    • How awful. I wonder how many of those women were, for example, survivors of sexual violence who were trying to avoid something traumatic and didn’t wish to discuss it in person due to being harassed and harangued at every turn. And exactly Jess, how many of those people made an informed choice to attend in the first place? Not one, I’d wager.

    • Also, why is she shaming women not turning up for cervical screening in particular? I’m sure there are numerous no shows every day. I did see the point about her putting on an extra clinic to ‘improve access’, but is that really the reason…? Anyone would think they get incentive payments or something…

      • Maybe because we’re in the middle of another ‘scareness’ campaign and she though it was a good opportunity to chastise naughty non-attenders?

        I firmly believe that many of the women who state they’re having trouble getting appointments at a convenient time are lying – they just don’t want to test but are afraid to admit it.

        Dr. Leonard is yet another ‘celebrity’ doctor – MBE, no less – who reeks of arrogance. Made plenty of money, no doubt, form her books, articles, appearances on tv/radio, gets paid £50k+ per year for working part-time as a GP… yet whines about no-show patients being a ‘drain’ on NHS resources. Maybe she could use that extra time to write another book, eh?

        Little bit suspicious that they’re still doing ‘catch up’ smears when the screening programme resumed last summer… if they’re struggling to cope with patient demand then it’s a bit rich for them to whine about DNA’s for ‘health checks’ which are largely a waste of time, money & resources. Her practice offers routine breast checks, so they’ve obviously got no problem when it’s only the patient’s time and money they’re wasting.

        And yes, one wonders how many of those non-attenders were ‘persuaded’ to make an appointment or had one made for them and got cold feet. Maybe they thought they were going to see the practice nurse and found out at the last minute it was this egotistical cow, who knows.
        Her practice is just a touch below the minimum 75% uptake threshold, so no doubt they’re desperate to get a few extra bums on seats for the good of their reputation. And a little more money, of course.

      • The incentive payments go up in 5% stages, so good detective work, Kate, she’s obviously after victims to nudge her above that 75% threshold so she gets the extra money. Good to see her efforts coming to nothing! Average screening uptake in my city is 66%. To think that in the 1990s it was universally widespread at 80% uptake in the UK with all that bullying. It wasn’t even a thing to think about not going. Now the zealots are getting worried that nearly one third in the UK don’t go, and what effect it will have on the rest of the blind believers.

        I saw the thread on twitter and noticed she got quite a lot of criticism. It got me wondering if it’s also a mobile phone thing. I was deliberately keeping my mobile phone number from my GP as I don’t want them calling me, but with the new NHS Covid App you need a mobile and your GP can get your number. Sure enough the text messages soon started coming. None of them for screening, but I had recently visited about my arthritis and realised belatedly that they had been trying to call me on my mobile. I keep it turned down when I’m at work and don’t always have it near me at home, so don’t hear it ringing. Just wondering if this reliance on mobile phones is part of the problem people don’t turn up, or am I just old?

  43. Thanks Cat and Mouse for your heads up! And Jess yes, it’s appalling that women are even phoned at all, it’s bcoz the medics can’t understand that some might not want this test

  44. Longtime visitor and occasional commenter here. I figured this would be a good place to ask. For those of you who experience PMS, how far in advance of your period do you usually start experiencing symptoms? Do you find yourself feeling extra fearful, anxious, emotional, etc. every month or just some months? My symptoms are less physical (bloating, water retention and so forth) and more on the emotional/mood swing side of things. How do you all cope with the emotional/mood symptoms?

    • I suffer with bad PMS as well as extremely debilitating cramps and heavy bleeding (sorry for TMI).

      My PMS symptoms range each month. Sometimes they are very intense and I am virtually inconsolable. Other times, they feel nothing more than a bad mood.

      They also range in terms of the time they show up.

      The PMS symptoms can show from anything from 10-3 days before a period.

      I am currently “self-medicating” for these symptoms with Microgynon, which I purchase online.

      I have no family history of blood clots, have a blood pressure monitor at home and was previously prescribed with this to treat these symptoms.

    • I get severe PMS, sometimes suicidal. Pmdd or whatever that is.

      The day after ovulation, my mood goes down, but is at its worst in the 7 days before I start bleeding. Its awful. Depressed, irritated, upset – all that.

      I take herbal tablets called ’30Plus’, made by Nuwoman. They work brilliantly. Takes a month or 2 to kick in one you start them. Once it starts working the difference is huge!

      They’re made in new zealand, and I get them posted to Oz. No prescription needed, its just herbal.

      Have been taking them for 15 years, they’re a lifesaver.

  45. I used to be sceptical that herbal things can work, but after taking these and feeling the effect, I’m convinced (with these at least!).

  46. Hi Oz,AQ and Susanne,
    You’re symptoms sound absolutely horrible, and as for premenstrual dysphoric disorder I’ve never even heard of it before, I’ve been looking it up to try and help, and other sufferers describe it as bad
    pms times ten ,but many have found that during the luteal phase of your cycle ( approx two weeks before the bleed ) there are elevated cortisol levels
    Known medically as hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal
    (Or hpa ) axis dysregulation.
    This impacts a females production of the sex hormones estrogen and progesterone, which in turn can affect the neurotransmitter seratonin as well as seratonin receptors in the brain, it all sounds rather complex but Oz is on the right track by herbal supplements , many have said that diet changes at the start of the luteal phase which include lowering sugar and salt levels taking B6 and calcium all contribute to lessening symptoms, hope this helps .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Make sure you’re getting 5k vitamin D, zinc, 1200mg soy lecithin, DHA, DHEA, ginseng, magnesium, also there’s raw hemp oil (Endoca 5%, CBD/CBDa), hemp seed, and coconut oil.
      The vitamin D will help stabilize mood. Dark chocolate and raw walnuts or pecans will supply natural antidepressants, coconut is high in omegs 3 which is anti-inflammatory.
      Endoca 3 drops or 15mg 2x day is best anti-inflammatory you can get.
      Magnesium helps with mood and spasms. DHEA you need for energy. DHA from algal oil is best blood brain nutrient plus lecithin which helps mood. Ginseng for energy.
      Masturbating or having an orgasm is good as we all know. Sperm or semen also helps mood.
      Sex during a period is something that’s always helped me too.
      The raw Endoca product with CBDa attaches to Wuhan spike and inhibits infection. Perhaps it’s why we haven’t gotten sick.
      Use organic whenever possible. Especially if you consume meat and milk.
      These are the things that helped me.
      I had wicked periods. Clots like liver chunks and terrible moods.
      Using nutrition helped more than doctors.
      Although to do it over I’d take the Pill and block my periods for months.

      • Actually, coconut oil is not very high in Omega-3 fatty acids. It has many more medium-chain fatty Omega-6 fatty acids. They may have benefits, although the typical western diet has too many Omega-6 and Omega-9 fatty acids. For Omega-3, fish oil has the most long and medium-chain fats. Or, eat plenty of fatty fish – such as tuna, sardines or salmon. Flaxseed is a great source for short-chain Omega-3s – which the body uses to make the medium and long-chain DHA and EPA, although rather inefficiently. It may, although it’s unproven, to have benefits of its own.

        For mood, be sure you’re getting enough vitamin B-6 and folic acid.

      • Actually from my research hemp had the best omega 3/omega 6 ratio. Corn and peanut worst.
        DHA Algal oil excellent protection for brain. My brain functions like it did when I was 16 on DHA.
        Flax tastes horrid and not as good source as coconut.
        I can mix coconut into almost everything. Which is why I prefer it over flax.

      • Coconut admittedly has some Omega-3, but is much higher in saturated fats. According to https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-004140000000000000000-4.html? it’s #162 – below fat-free French salad dressing or industrial shortening. Still, if you like coconut, it probably won’t hurt you.

        Again, if you’re eating anything found in a western and many eastern diets, you’re probably too high in Omega-6 and Omega-9. So, I don’t worry much about the ratio.

        For plant-based Omega-3 though, try walnut or other tree-nuts.

        One thing I did find was that several of my favorite vegetables, including peppers, broccoli, spinach, and brussels sprouts are also high in Omega-3. So are (dry) beans.

      • Coconut does have high saturated fat. What’s interesting is my husband used to have very high cholesterol.
        Now, after getting his thyroid regulated, and on this diet, his cholesterol is 159.
        What he’s really accomplished is finally getting his inflammation under control.

      • To add. We use it raw. Mixed with cold pressed avocado and grapeseed.
        Those items you mention are processed.
        These oils alone won’t win the war.
        We use that Endoca Raw 5% oil.
        Organic whenever; especially with eggs and milk which are used sparingly.

      • Hey, if a regimen is working for you and yours, I won’t knock it!

        It’s not that I recommend those other products (fat-free French, or industrial shortening), but there is the notation that both of those are HIGHER in Omega-3 than is coconut oil.

        What I use much of the time is ground flax meal. Note though, that it WILL go rancid if it’s ground very long before you use it. Or, if it sets out at room temperature for long. A better way is to get the flax seeds (always go organic with those! Non-organic has chemicals not approved or suitable for use on food crops – it’s classified as a fiber crop (for linen) ). The best way I’ve found to grind the seeds is with a coffee grinder only used to grind seeds and such – never coffee.

        This is only useful when in something that requires an oil (e.g., breads and such). When I need a little oil to saute something, I prefer either olive oil or butter.

        Personally, I find the cholesterol testing is a little dubious. But, I’ll have one before I go to the doctor. I’ve got to pick my battles.

      • A long time ago we were told fat was the enemy. Carbs were good.
        That was polar opposite to what’s really good for us.
        Same with eggs.
        If you eat feed lot meat you’re consuming food that’s inflammatory because of corn, fructose, and the stress this causes.
        Essentially we follow a modified Mediterranean diet.
        I can add coconut or the oil mix to almost anything.
        It’s not that I’m against flax, it’s just that it’s not as palatable as others.
        If I did decide to use butter it will be grass fed only.

      • Ah yes. “The diet” has changed – fats were bad. Eggs were horrible. Butter was horrible. Margarine with trans-fats was okay. Carbs good. Vegetables were to be eaten in moderation. We had that upside-down food pyramid for decades. Then, as could have been predicted, people became more and more obese. They blamed those getting fat – but they were mainly eating what they’d been told and what was available, yet never feeling satisfied. So, now eggs are a “superfood”, margarine has been reformulated to eliminate the trans-fats (unnatural and horrible for you).

        Another thing that isn’t talked about are there are 2 kinds of fiber. Everybody says, “High in fiber”, but lots of that is added wood fibers! Nondietary fiber from vegetables is good “to keep you regular”, but it’s the dietary fiber that goes in and filters out large molecules such as LDL (bad) cholesterol. That’s high in brans and many whole grains.

        Corn is not the demon it’s made out to be, unless someone has an allergy to corn (amazingly common). In that case, it’s not the mix of Omegas, it’s the corn itself.

        I’m following a diabetic diet – with meat. I live in a county with 5,000 people and 500,000 cattle! Much of it comes from locally-raised cattle. There was or is a distribution problem with eggs, and my local store has been getting eggs from a couple of local farmers – or their kids doing chickens for 4H projects. AFAIC, all that means is that I get more nutritious eggs that are fresher and taste better. For grain, I’ve been getting organic whole rye flour or whole wheat from a co-op – in 50 lb bags. They ran out out of wheat flour, last year, but this year they repackaged much of their other products (with lots of people stuck at home) but they have the 50 and 100 lb bags.

      • You’re getting your food as it was meant to be.
        I don’t know if eggs are a superfood. Fred Dryer while playing football ate a huge number of them. No lasting bad effects.
        We do eat corn but avoid the refined corn products when possible.
        Where do you live?

      • Where do I live? I live in a tiny little town of just over 100 people in a “flyover state” in the middle of the US. One can legally have up to 5 chickens in town! A couple of my neighbors do have a few chickens in their yards. There is a feed lot maybe 250 meters from me.

        BTW, one big practice is when hay/corn/wheat/etc has been harvested, cattle will be turned into the empty field. The harvesting machines are not perfect, and there are stalks – and the cattle can get food from this – nearly “feedlot rations” from the way they come back. Yet, they are called “grassfed cattle” when they are sold on the market. Well, yeah, technically corn and wheat are grasses.And, the cattle put manure in the field which will be fertilizer for next year’s crop.

        When I see cattle on a range, where they have many square miles, they will often lay in very close proximity – just as close as in the feedlots – by their own choice. Cattle make friends. Among dairy cattle, being among friends while being milked by machine increases their productivity! http://nectar.northampton.ac.uk/6466/

        Feedlots are cleaned of manure every few hours “around the clock”. It is piled in the center, and feedlot cattle will appear to play “king of the hill” with this pile. Calves play even more: My little black car will often be chased by dozens of black calves when I’m driving on lightly-traveled roads. 🙂

        BTW, do you know there are no universally-recognized definitions for what is “organic”? California has encoded definitions, and it means something if it’s “organic” under California law. Often, it’s the same stuff – after all, one can use the definition of organic used in chemistry – it contains carbon. Even if a farmer is only using organic products on their field, if their neighbors spray some chemicals, or even if someone long upwind or upstream does, it can get on the “organic” products. As many chemicals as are in the environment, it would take decades to eliminate it from even the most remote locations on earth.

    • Hi Jules,

      That specific dysregulation you mention? I had no idea about that. I’ll do some research for it, thanks!!!


  47. Hi cat&mouse,
    You should become a dietitian that’s an impressive list of helpful information and it shows that we are all here for each other, the way it’s going
    Who needs dr’s.
    Hugs Jules x.

  48. By the way, in the post today was my reminder that I hadn’t taken up my offer of breast screening a few weeks ago. It says at the top in big letters that my surgery supports breast screening. They don’t send a leaflet these days, only a weblink and QR code on the letter to download the leaflet, which means you’re highly unlikely to see the fleeting reference to harms and risks and also the sentence about opting out. It’s gone into the recycling now anyway.

  49. Hi there all, so i spent some time this morning researching. i am appalled at how the medical community treats “women healthcare”. All my experiences pushed aside, for one the cdc says that paps should start at 21 years old. Now, what if that particular person has no prior sexual activity- then you use a big speculum. Well that can be processed as rape especially afterwards. Not to mention that even them can have false positives, and then they possibly destroy their healthy vagina for nothing. I also looked into the reasons for not going, not one of them says that they don’t consent, and it all attributes to being busy. Not consenting is a reason to not go, because of the false positives it is a reason to not go. ugh.
    in my personal experience, in my first pap, it hurt so much and the doctor doing it didn’t even use a small/pedriac speculum. i felt like rape afterwards. Even at my last exam in 2020 (bleh!), i felt like i was raped afterwards. meanwhile, i had sexual activity and that feels fine and better. it also annoys me that no doctor wants to follow the guidelines of every 3-5 years of testing. not that i want to get tested again because i felt pressured and harrassed at that i didn’t follow up. it also would be more comfortable.
    Speaking about comfortable: personally, i am confortable getting a blood and urine test to test for stds. according to this site, blood tests and urine samples are an accurate way to diagnosis the std. However, in my research not one word about that option is mentioned! WHY? people who are modest, had bad experiences, are not active, probably would opt for the non-invaisive option. WHY not give people the non-invaisive option?
    i really don’t get it.
    Plus to boot, back at my last pap- i got an ASCUS with HPV status, and they refered me to a colosophy, i said no because i was already aware of the risks because of sites like this and women against stirupps. But researching this– oh ask your doctor- no mention of any risks of either the pap or the colosophy. i researched all on the CDC site: http://www.cdc.gov .

    • First, your possible hpv status. Get a Delphi Screener or the “wick” self tester that’s being advertised over there. You’re in UK right? Do that before anything.
      ONLY IF POSITIVE do anything further. If not, tell them to kindly go F*** themselves.
      IF you’re hpv positive? Look at every holistic cure. See what Leroy Nicholas DC does in Chicago.
      And, tell your doctor you have a cold sore or recurring cold sore. Get an Rx of Valtrex or Zovirax.
      These are anti-virals that work on herpes type virus’.
      You’ve heard me talk about Epstein Barr Virus that gave my husband his Hashimoto’s Disease and his NHL right? That’s also a herpes virus.
      These two meds block viral replication.
      My husband’s oncologist has him taking this med to block EBV which also keeps his NHL in check.
      Do NOT ever consent to LEEP. It’s an amputation. Your cervix will never recover. You will have problems carrying a baby to term, lubrication issues, and forget deep orgasms. Many of these lead to hysterectomy as the problems after such are common. We’re talking a few mm between amputation and forever discharge and pain which necessitates radical surgery.
      Stay away from low income clinics. These will have the newby doctors. They are most likely to want to do things to you that aren’t necessary. Because they need experience to gain their license.
      Go to affluent area clinic if possible. They won’t be as pushy there.
      Now regarding the speculum. My last pap was 2010 before I did the Trovagene Urine Based HPV Test. I’ve talked about that enough here. It was 93% accurate using PCR tech and antibody capture. It’s gone; discontinued. The company is now called Cardiff Oncology I think. The test was never advertised and few knew about it.
      In contrast, pap scrape is 50% accurate.
      I call it scrape because your cervix is scraped to drawing blood. The smear is when what’s taken is smeared on a slide.
      The slides are rated by a computer algorithm. Rarely do human eyes diagnose.
      As I said, regarding speculum size. I have lichen sclerosis. We have to be careful during sex or I tear at bottom, top, or both.
      My husband requested a pediatric speculum. The doctor had one out that would be for a woman having had 6 kids.
      If you’ve had kids via C-section; that info is vital.
      Do not allow a metal speculum. These are soaked in a 1% bleach solution. Not autoclaved.
      Wash your hands thoroughly. Especially after urinating. And make sure the toilet is clean too.
      HPV survives outside. It can be transmitted from coat hangers, door handles, the table since the flimsy tissue paper isn’t any kind of a barrier.
      Hope this helps some.

      • Hi there Cat & Mouse, i’m in the USA, so i am not sure if the Delphi Screener is an option here, or it may be but i would have to fight to get it. However, i am looking for a way to test for STDS as well as HPV. As for helping get rid of the HPV, i did start multivitamins with most of the vitamins and minerals that stop the hpv infection. that’s about all i did tho. i did see something on other website about dousing your vagina with a yogurt thing, but i’m sort of scared of trying it because i never douched before.
        Thanks for the other tips- had no idea that HPV survives outside.
        As for the computer algoritum, my last pap said it was reviewed by a person. it says both screened by and pathologist reviewed. Luckily i know about this because i requested my records from the place since i don’t consent anymore. Plus it causes constant worry- i was getting harrassed about not going for a colosophy, which is the follow up procedure. you are right when it is amputiation, i looked it up once.
        But like why don’t other gynos tell you how to cure HPV naturally? i had to look it all up myself. am not sure if it’s gone but i haven’t experienced any sympotoms.

      • btw thanks so much for posting about dr. nicholas! that is very interesting! i should buy his book besides, even if the hpv cleared at least i would be healthy overall!

  50. Hi ladies,
    When I was new here one of my first posts was that I had a concern that at the end of the pandemic there would be a major push by the screening services to try and recoup their target figures.
    THIS iS IT !
    With Jo’s week of campaigning in January and barely a week or two break before the NHS month long campaign and I’ve no doubt another one or two campaign’s will follow in the later parts of the year, it struck me just how desperate they are, I think that even they see this as a last roll of the dice, if after all this persecution the target figures do drop again there is simply nowhere for them to go, I think the next one or two years could prove decisive .

    • I was watching the dog programme with Paul O’Grady last night when in the middle of it came the ads and the vile cervical screening advert came on. I made wretching sounds and pretended to be sick and my Husband just fell about laughing. He said to me to go and get screened, I gave him a V sign which made him laugh even more. Its pathetically sad both the campaign and the advert, although the hysteria continues on Twitter.


      • As I’ve mentioned before, I only watch streaming channels and catch-up TV.
        Haven’t watched ITV, Channel 4 etc in years so imagine my wrath when I saw the advert during a break on the Sky movies channel 😡

    • Jules, they had to admit during the pandemic that smear tests were not so necessary after all and could easily wait. I’m sure that was an eye opener for many of the blind believers. The spell may have been broken, and the secret is out. Now they’ve got to re-convince them that smear tests just can’t wait and are so vital. Be interesting to see how many flock back.

      • Educate the husbands.
        A house divided falls.
        Husbands not taking this seriously need to be made to take it as seriously as we do.
        The results from my husband are dramatic in this regards.

  51. Hi everyone.
    So I’ve frequently visited this wonderful site anonymously for a few years now and I want to finally just make an account on here. Where would I need to make an account? I’m a huge advocate for this and I even have an account made on the site titled “Women Against Stirrups” on Pro Boards (which I also highly recommend for you all, too. VERY informing site), so I would like to finally make an account here as well 🙂

  52. This isn’t gynecology related but I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts on colonoscopies. I had one scheduled for 3/14 that I just cancelled. Reading the instructions for the prep made me shudder – it involves guzzling large quantities of laxatives. The procedure itself sounds more like an operation than a screening test. Gastroenterologists in the US are among the highest paid doctors, largely from performing these procedures, so likely the huge push for them is financially driven. I’m well past the recommended age to have one, but think I’m going to look into non-invasive options.

    • Search: over diagnosis of colon cancer or harms of colonoscopy. You get some interesting articles.

      I know someone who had a routine colonoscopy recommended because the poo test showed blood. This person had hemorrhoids. Also some tests give a false positive when a person eats certain foods such as red meats, broccoli or a false negative if the person takes a certain amount of vitamin C supplements. This person had some harmless polyps removed. A few weeks later they received a letter from the hospital that the scope used was not properly cleaned and they could have contracted hepatitis, HIV or other infections or parasites.

      • Colonoscopy is a catch all like pap scrape.
        In the case with gallstones the medical provider should have known from where symptoms were coming from. Recommending a colonoscopy was bs.
        Just a way to scare the patient into testing.
        An ultrasound would have sufficed.

      • That was me who posted thanking Anonymous for posting the interesting info – fyi.

    • Hi Judy, My husband was “offered” this about 4 years ago when he suddenly started losing weight. The NHS consultant he saw here in the UK tried to speak down to him and stressed that it was “very important” he had this test. When he said he didn’t want he almost sneered at him. My Husband asked to see his proof-of-qualification and the consultant didn’t have it with him. My hubby said he would be happy to have a 3D body scan and if this showed up anything of concern he would then consider a colonoscopy, he closed the appointment by thanking the consultant for his time but added he felt that he (the consultant) didn’t know what he was talking about and said he would be seeking a second opinion.
      Needless to say they made an appointment for him anyway (I am getting a sense of DeJa Vu) and send him packs of bowel prep and laxatives. He cancelled the appointment and 4 years on is just the same as before.


    • My husband was referred for one some years ago, before either of us was anywhere near the screening age (60) in the UK. He had stomach pains. He said it was extremely unpleasant. I didn’t go with him as didn’t think it was that invasive, and regret it to this day. He was very upset by the whole procedure and came home quite shaken. Afterwards, they did a scan and discovered the nature of his problem: gall stones. He was very cross they hadn’t done the scan first which would’ve saved him having to have the colonoscopy. His advice is to ask for all non-invasive tests first before agreeing to have the colonoscopy. He’s since refused 2 bowel screening tests, as doesn’t want to go through it again, and I’ve refused 1.

      • Apparently, they pass the tube with the camera on it four feet into the intestines. So it’s really quite invasive. The screening age in the US was recently lowered to 45, supposedly because colon cancer is on the rise among younger people. But I think the old $$$ played a part (probably a big part) in the change. Ada, your husband’s advice is spot on to ask for non-invasive tests first.

    • Judy, Yes, I’ve thought through colonoscopies too – mostly posted about them in a now-defunct Yahoo group on a gynecology topic.

      I’ve never had one. I don’t plan to except, perhaps, as a diagnostic test. For the same reasons you’ve mentioned, it seems more like a surgery than it does a screening test. There is about a 2% risk of bowel perforation from this procedure. Also, there have been numerous substantiated reports of “single use” items for colonoscopies being re-used for years – without so much as cleaning! The risk of infection would appear to be enormous. On the guzzling laxatives, they’ve also been telling us for years not to do that, and the risks involved. Especially if you’ve got blood sugar issues or if you’ve got something else that requires a medication to be taken on time, this could be a problem. Having had probable food poisoning, and having passed out and landing in the ER from dehydration, this would seem to be a risk of that type of reaction. Additionally, the “waking sedation”, and the drug given to produce that, Versed, has a troubling side effect profile – such as short term memory difficulties for months afterward.

      There have been numerous cases of people who have alleged, and charged, their gastroenterologist with sexual assault. For instance, https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/01/10/trial-underway-for-regina-doctor-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-five-patients.html or https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2020/01/14/south-fort-myers-doctor-loses-license-after-admitting-sexual-assault-patients/4465104002/

      There are risks and benefits to this procedure. One thing is to know your risks – of having or not having the procedure. See https://knowyourchances.cancer.gov/custom_charts.php to find your risk of getting or dying of colon cancer based on your age, race, and gender. Other things can modify your risk, such as others in your family having had it.

      I’ve personally known several people who went in from one of these procedures, ended up in the hospital afterward, I don’t know why – bowel perforation or infection is my guess, and they did not come out alive. Besides being a survivor of sexual abuse, including sodomy, I’m partly afraid that I will fight back against it – under the “waking sedation”, and find myself spending the rest of my life in prison for assault on a healthcare worker. One can have this procedure without such waking sedation, which might be somewhat uncomfortable

    • Hi there, i’m too young for a colonoscopy but my parents had a couple, and it seems kind of scary. i’d read their prep instructions and it is so ridiculous! For one, all you can eat is jello and soft foods, 2- you have to go to the bathroom alot to clean out your bowels. 3- you can;t eat nothing on the day of your test until afterwards… fourtly, and maybe this is a problem too in the field of gynology: but they don’t tell you that it is a screening test, and the doctors that my parents go to seem to not care about the patient. my dad asked if he needed a colonoscopy, and they were nasty about refusing it. he ended up going through with it, but to be honest, look into non-invaisive options as well.

      • If you consent, this is how you deal with the cleanout.
        Get some low calorie lemonade. Chill it and mix with the solution to your desire.
        Drink lots of water to chase it. The water is what seems to activate it in your bowels.

  53. Wow Jess, good for your husband for not falling for the scare tactic. These doctors play on people’s fear of cancer to talk them into having invasive procedures and then get bent out of shape when their tactics don’t work. Colonoscopies are not a risk-free procedure – sometimes too much aired gets pumped into the colon and a puncture occurs resulting in a serious injury. Supposedly this is a rare occurrence, but there was a study done a few years ago that concluded patients are eight times more likely to be harmed by a colonoscopy then helped.

    • Not properly cleaned ass scopes happen more than you think.
      Paying minimum wage isn’t the greatest thing when lives matter.

  54. Hi ladies,
    With all the terrible news coming out of Europe over the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it seems that there is little interest in the smear campaign at the moment, British politicians have said that they are prepared to take 200,000 refugees mainly women and children, it’s a wonder the screening brigade are not already at the airports waiting to hand out leaflets for screening they are that pathetic.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • They expect us to believe that?
      So, are we to believe hpv isn’t human engineered like Wuhan and won’t mutate?
      Or that uncircumcised migrants won’t import a new variant?
      Why then all the continuing hype about screening?

  55. Hi Everyone,
    I haven’t posted on here for a few days but you might remember back in February I went with Daughters friend Hannah when she had her first smear. I got a hysterical call from her last Thursday saying she had been sent a letter saying she has cervical cancer. I managed to calm her down and explained that its highly unlikely that she has cervical cancer but it would appear that when she had her smear she has been identified as having abnormal cells. The letter she has had confirmed she has an appointment at the local hospital on March 29th for a “routine colposcopy” then finally on Saturday a letter arrived saying her cervical screening had identified potentially abnormal cells and that she would shortly be invited for a routine colposcopy (the letters crossed in the post).
    She has asked me to go with her again, I have said I would even though the idea of going in there with her makes me feel physically sick. She has asked me if she should go or not and I said that its her decision and I will go with her if she decided to go. I really could have done without this as at 24 she seems really down about this and was going to opt out of the screening program. I will let you know what she decided to do.

    • Sorry, I should add its Michelle here posting above. I was tired yesterday morning and got my name and email in the wrong box!

    • Hi Michelle,

      She doesn’t need a colposcopy! She needs a repeat pap smear in a few months time. Smears at her age often have abnormal cells because that’s normal!

      Just about anything could cause abnormal cells.

      Please don’t let her do that colposcopy, its ridiculous. They’ll be happily cutting bits out of her cervix (LEEP, cold knife) probably without anaesthetic.

      For gods sake, tell her to forget the colposcopy and repeat the smear in 3 months time. I guarentee it will be clear.

      If she does that colposcopy she’ll be traumatised for life and stuck on the gyno gravy train of non-stop surveillance and procedures forever. Don’t do it!!!

    • Argh! One smear test does not mean that anyone has cervical cancer! I think the misstatements in such letters are the reason that so many believe they were “saved” from CC, that it’s so rampant, except for these smears.

      Yes, getting on the colposcoppy/biposy/leep, cutting, drilling and tearing, mostly without anesthesia merry go round is a great way to get a customer for life.

  56. Hi Michelle,
    First of all calm down, “potentially abnormal cells”
    Is not cancer, many girls/women
    who are or have been “active ”can have abnormal cell readings on their test ,but this is very often transient as the bodies own immune system clears it, this is the reason that they upped the screening age to 25 as too many women under this age had
    abnormal cells registered with this inaccurate test and went on to be over treated, which is what will probably happen to Hannah if she attends her appointment as they will almost certainly take a biopsy, if this uncommon cancer takes between 10 and 20 years to develop I’m sure she could retest in another year for hpv and find that it’s gone, it sounds like she has taken in the propaganda they dish out, and now carries the fear around, remember that they even have to put on the propaganda leaflets that there is a chance of the test resulting in false negatives or
    false positives, this is because of its inaccuracies , and for legal reasons,
    I haven’t been able to engage in the site for a while either as I’ve been busy at work and Annette has signed us both up for two nights a week packing clothes and toys for the Ukraine refugees
    it’s a worthwhile cause but I’m missing an awful amount of chianti time.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Come back in 3 months.
      Cells naturally abnormal at her age.
      This should tell what BS this test is.
      If the test was legit they would know when to administer it.
      So one day the test gives a false positive? But another woman near her age with abnormal results would be seen as legit results?
      50% efficacy means a coin toss.
      3 months from now her body won’t have changed either.
      This isn’t like buying beer.
      One day you can’t but come your 21st birthday suddenly you can.
      Get her nutrition in order.
      Obtain an antiviral.
      Do not pap scrape.
      Get a passive home test for hpv.

      • Sounds similar to my results, i got a letter stating that they wanted me to come in October! i didn’t go at all. They kept bullying me and i kept getting letters to call to follow up. Due to this harassment, i still don’t trust doctors.

      • Look this up. Naga Thota MD convicted of molesting patients for drugs. This happened about 10 years ago. He’s about halfway through his sentence. He used to be my pain doctor. My husband always does with me. He’s first saw my cervix after our marriage 30+yrs ago.
        He felt Dr Thota was attempting to groom me. Thota was also very pushy about me being alone in the room without my husband. Last, he wanted me to show up within 30 minutes after he called, alone, to p/u my Schedule II Rx. Well, I can’t drive…
        He was having patients show up late at night. He’d drug them, molest, then send them home hours later with their new Rx.
        Took the dense district attorney months and months to believe the patients/victims and act on it.
        If you or I did that, the first time we’d be arrested. That’s disgusting.
        The other doctor I almost saw, we had the intake packet ready, was Jeffrey Abrams MD. An endocrinologist; very well respected. He liked “volunteering” at a local low income clinic.
        There he took pictures. Juveniles, adults, various forms of undress, lots of vaginas, even a woman masturbating in stirrups video. He had over 1500 vagina pictures on his phone.
        Don’t want to think about the purpose of that… He claimed it was to be used to assist at UCSD med school.
        The experiences, the memories, they don’t go away.
        I understand what you mean by trust issues.
        We know women who showed up with a cold and would be talked into a pelvic exam. The first we heard of this was over 40 years ago before I had to worry about these things.
        But, we all know a woman today who is enduring the same harassment.
        The medical perverts from yesteryear trained the medical perverts we have today. These will in turn “train” the next generation of medical perverts.
        You ever wonder how many times a doctor masturbates in a day? Male and female.

    • Thanks for your replies ladies, I am calm (i think 🙂 ) its Hannah who was upset. She tried cancelling the appointment this morning and got the usual high pressure sales technique as to how important it is to attend the colposcopy examination so I think she is going to go, although I have the best part of three weeks to persuade her otherwise. x

      • Hi Michelle, this situation is so upsetting. I think it’s important Hannah really understand that the entire field is about breaking boundaries with her. They use the term “barriers” but it’s about breaking boundaries..breaking into women’s bodies, breaking down their minds with fear. Now that Hannah has experienced this both physically and mentally now maybe it will click what’s going on.

      • Sorry follow up comment… I think many young girls automatically trust medicine, as we’re groomed to do. But here they’ve manufactured a problem that they conveniently have a solution for. I hope she is able to really connect with the idea that the pap and follow up procedures are not the product, she is. She wouldn’t accept being used like this with any other person right? So why now in this situation?

      • I’m tempted to agree with Ozphoenix. Has Hannah had the HPV vaccine? She sounds about the same age as my daughter, who had to have 3 doses, only for them to decide a year later that 2 was enough. If she has had the vaccine, I would be very suspect that there is anything there at all. I know they’ve said that the vaccine doesn’t protect against ALL types of HPV, but the results so far have shown a good deal more cross protection than they anticipated, so the rarer types are being prevented even if the vaccine isn’t specifically licenced for it. This seems to be terribly bad luck. I seem to remember reading once that there would be a rise in colposcopy visits as the vaccinated cohorts entered the screening rounds, but can’t remember what the reason for this was.

      • Hang on, I thought the NHS did primary HPV screening these days?

        Have they screened her for HPV? Or have they just told her she has “abnormal cells”?

        Have they disclosed whether her results are CIN 1, 2 or 3?

      • Hi Everyone, I spoke to her last night, I havent seen the letter myself but I understand that they found HPV and when they investigated further the found low grade dyskariosis not sure if I have spelt it correctly. My main concern last night was telling her she certainly doesnt have cancer and there is a less that 0.5% chance she will have it in the future.

    • To follow up, that’s the annoying thing that they won’t tell you, even in the US: abnormal cells aren’t cancer! Sure there is a chance that it may turn into Cancer but it’s so low… ugh 😦 To boot, they don’t even admit the test is inaccurate. it’s like having a woman’s body is a disease, and it is not! reminds me of when i went to the dermolatologist and was diagnosed with vitalo. oh it’s cancer! meanwhile it is not and ine can use cream for it. i don’t tho

    • That’s interesting that it’s being discussed as a safer alternative due to eliminating false positives. I don’t remember ever hearing mentions of safety from false results from cervical screening. In fact it’s the opposite, the “safety” is supposed to be obtained through the follow up burning/cutting, etc to eliminate abnormal cells. Although I think the line between eliminating/removing abnormal cells and female organs is very thin and confusing. I suppose the classical view is that the female organs themselves are the disease.

      • I agree with you – women’s organs are treated as a pathology. I’m not sure much has changed since the days of ‘hysteria’ when it was believed that the womb was running around the body and women who practised herbal medicine were burned as witches.

  57. It’s a minefield isn’t it? Michelle did Hannah’s letter say her HPV status?
    My 59 yr old colleague, confidently monogamous, had a lump down below and the hospital doc took a smear even though lump had gone by time the hospital appointment rolled round
    Her results were HPV negative but abnormal cells found and her letter said she’d be “invited “ for colposcopy
    She asked my advice and I said if she was so worried to go, but to remember she’s negative and not fall for any hard sell. She turned up for the colposcopy where they said since she was negative they wouldn’t be doing it!! Total fiasco! She said she won’t be attending her last smear when “invited “
    Let us know what Hannah decides and I’m thinking of her.. and you!

  58. Very sorry to hear Hannah’s news but this is the reason countries like the Netherlands don’t start cervical screening until the age of 30. There are so many false alarms under this age, which clear up by themselves, but it frightens the life out of young women who become convinced that they’re destined to get this cancer. Who wouldn’t be terrified at this age? It marks them for life and puts them on a conveyor belt of procedures they cannot get off from. Low grade dyskariosis is CIN1, which has barely any significance at all. Before HPV testing came in, a CIN1 smear would put you onto a repeat test every 6 months until the HPV had cleared and a negative test came back. With HPV testing into the equation this happens with low grade HPV, but not if it’s types 16, 18, which refers you to colposcopy. Even then, it is unlikely there will be any treatment. Unfortunately, this has resulted in increases of colposcopy referrals of about 13% more than under the old test. It’s very sad that H is having to go through all this. So unnecessary, but I fear she may never get off their books after having this totally unnecessary positive result.

  59. We’ve just had two high profile deaths in Australia from heart attacks – Shane Warne and a female politician.

    I hope it shakes up the health system and we have more focus on the worst health issues like this, and –

    …who am I kidding, a leopard doesn’t change its spots. Pap smears will always be the first, middle and last thing on a doctors agenda for women.

    Heart attacks? Heart screening? Meh.

    (Why yes, I am being sarcastic)

  60. I did try to see a cardiologist once, when I turned 40. He insisted on doing a manual breast exam first.

    When I said I wasn’t seeing him about my breasts, and I wouldn’t be having that, he refused to see me.

    His receptionist was also very rude when I said ‘no’ to the breast exam. She couldn’t believe I was saying no! She acted like I’d just called her mother a dirty word. It was so ridiculous.

    Our family on my mothers side has a terrible history of heart problems, starting in their 40’s.

    Well, I tried. So much for that. I guess boobs are more important than heart attacks.

    • i have a problem with my heart where one of the arteries or veins go the wrong way, so i’ve been to the cardiologist too. One of them that i have been to also asked to examine my boobs, and i refused as well. they were okay about it, but like my boobs aren’t my heart.Went to another doctor, Last time i got an EKG, they refuse to let me wear a wire proof bralette, and i was shirtless and cold during the exam. it was quick, but certainly not fun either. That doctor was annoyed that i wanted to find someone else.. well i researched that one can wear a bralette as long as it is wire free. smh. You know, it’s annoying because you think that they would try to make things as pleasant as possible?!?!?!

      • Ah, but it’s not as CONVENIENT as possible! If they don’t have to work around some silly woman’s bralette, they can get done quicker and do an EKG on someone else. The more they can do, the more money they make – for the technician as well as for the machine. Time is money! So what if she’s cold? If they can throw in a breast exam while they’re about it, it might be an added perk for them while adding just a little time.

        Call me a cynic.

  61. Hi oz,
    The average heart beats 100,000 times per day, which pumps around 8 pints of blood continuously around the circulation system re oxygenating muscles/organs etc,
    which it gets from the lungs, which in turn keeps us alive pretty unimportant really when they can have a little play with your boobies instead.
    Hugs Jules x.

  62. Good morning Ladies,,
    I hope everyone is well. It looks like we all survived “Cervical Screening Hysteria Month” and fortunatly I only saw that vile advert on TV once. Now its officially over it looks like this hasnt registered with Jo’s Tosh though as they have put a number of new videos on Youtube overnight. Once again presented by the patronising nurse who applies eye liner with a pallet knife. I am reaching for the sick bag already….


    • Get every urine incontinent 80 yr old to sign up. Over and over at every clinic.
      The program will fold up overnight.

  63. Hi everyone, It’s been quiet on here for the past few days . My Daughters friend Hannah is still going for her colposcopy on Tuesday at 11am, and she had been inundated with text messages from the NHS confirming her appointment. Yesterday a leaflet dropped through the letterbox explaining the procedure. From Sunday nigh she has to start “preparing” her vagina for the procedure, not sex, tampons, creams, douches, menstrual cups etc. She doesn’t want to go to the appointment but feels she has to. I will let you know how it goes on Tuesday after the appointment.


    • Good luck with her, Michelle.

      I think its totally unnecessary, she doesn’t have to submit to the system. A repeat smear in 3 months time would be highly likely to be normal.

      Please tell her she has the right to say ‘stop’ or change her mind at any time. Empasise that. And make sure if you’re there, and she starts saying no, and they start rabbiting on saying, ‘Almost there, not much longer’, instead of stopping, that you jump on them and make them stop. Sadly, we all know what they’re like…

      Also, if you turn up and you have a male doctor? That would be a huge ‘NO’ from me, at any rate.

      I really wish she wasn’t doing this. It’s so unnecessary and traumatic.

      • Hi Michelle,
        I agree with what Ozphoenix says, remember she is entitled to say no. Even if you go in and talk to the Drs first there is no requirement to even proceed with the colposcopy. Let us know how you get on

    • Have to agree with others on here. Such a terrible ordeal for your young friend to have to go through. I think it’s a postcode lottery what kind of treatment she can expect. Depends entirely on the doctor’s view as it’s all so subjective. There will be some, who’ll say there’s nothing to be done here and send her away, or they’ll be others who think it’s best to treat, no matter how small. Had a browse through some of the Mumsnet posts and all seem to have got different levels of treatment for the same thing. It’s a dreadful waste, and the psychlogical harm has never been considered a factor in this pathetic programme.

  64. Hi Michelle,
    You’re right it has been quiet on the site, in my case it’s almost the end of the tax year so my work rate has gone through the roof, and helping out at a Ukrainian aid relief centre is taking up a lot of my time, but I still check the site most nights.
    I’m sorry that Hannah feels the need to attend her appointment, and I’m not sure that they will let you be present during her procedure which means she will be very vulnerable to their persuasion techniques if they get her alone which could be traumatic if they take the see and treat approach, and don’t forget to remind her that she has the right of preference for a female doctor as well as a legal right to consent to or against treatment, and if it’s a teaching hospital NO F- ——G STUDENTS observing, I will be thinking of her on the day.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Well said, Jules. Good on you for helping out at the relief centre. It’s a nightmare for them over there, so awful. I wish we could make Putin go away. :’-(

    • I’m back on tonight but have been following events in Ukraine very closely. Cannot get my head around what is happening in Europe in this day and age 😥

  65. Hi oz,
    We don’t do that much, just four hours on the evening two nights a week I wish we could do more the boxes we packed last night were mainly underwear and sanitary products these poor girls and women have had to flee their homes , cities, country with just the clothes they had on and have been travelling to the safety
    Of neighbouring countries for days I just can’t imagine how this must be for them, let’s hope it all ends soon.
    Hugs Jules x.

  66. Just checked my phone for new text messages and found this:

    “We’ve been informed you did not attend your breast screening appointment. Please contact your local breast screening clinic to re-arrange this”.

    It’s a no reply message so have emailed them and reminded them that this is an option and a choice, and women are entitled to make their own decisions about attending or not. Told them the surgery should not be supporting breast screening as it has been condemned by a Cochrane review and to remove my name from their screening list. If I’m going to be pestered I will opt out.

  67. Hi Ada,
    If I were you I’d just opt out, we get enough hassle over our other lady parts and don’t need further
    harassment over our boobs as well, I do my own checks pretty regularly , and either have a bath or a shower daily so I think I would notice if something was not normal or different and needed to be looked at by a medic without them demanding that I do so to fall in line with their precious program.
    Hugs Jules x.

  68. Hey all!! Unrelated to pap testing but I need some advice. Husband and I took a bath together for the first time in forever, and of course things got hot and heavy rather soon. We’ve done it in the shower a bunch of times, but never in a bath tub until now lol.

    My pH has never been thrown off after the fun in the shower, but we used a bath fizzer, and our parts were definitely underwater the whole time. Will this mess me up at all? I’ve only had one yeast infection in my whole life, when I was on really strong antibiotics after getting my wisdom teeth out. We had fun of course, but now I’m worried that it might throw off my pH, heh.

    I know I will not go to a doctor of course because I ain’t having them look at my parts, but if anything happens I’ll want to treat it naturally at home. I’ve really never had constant issues with my vaginal health to be honest. Some people for some reason just have constant UTIs and yeast infections, and I’ve hardly had any at all. Just 2 UTIs ever and one yeast infection only from strong antibiotics. Maybe if I’ve had a generally healthy vagina my whole life I might not have anything to worry about, but I wanna know what you guys think. I’d appreciate it!

    • Bath products can unbalance your vaginal PH, making a yeast or bacterial infection more likely. However, it’s not certain that it will. A douche with a small amount of vinegar should re-balance it though.

      If you decide to have more fun in the bathtub, I’d suggest skipping the bath fizzer. Or, you can “treat” it right after with a similar mild-vinegar douche.

    • Hi anonymous,
      As long as you aren’t having
      bath fun too many times a week I really can’t see much of a problem happening ,the vagina is pretty resilient contrary to what the medical profession would have you believe,
      So enjoy !
      Hugs Jules x.

    • Forgot.
      For bladder infection try fresh pomegranate juice and fresh blueberry juice. Mixed. You can dilute with water too.
      Cranberry juice cocktail as it’s sold usually has high fructose corn syrup which aggravates bladder infections.

  69. Hi ladies! Oh dear it looks like help us help you hasn’t died and gone away! The town I live in, an extremely deprived one in SE England, has been awarded extra cash to persuade its women to “take a potentially life saving test “! U guessed it, a smear! Apparently only 59%of our women take the test, with , of course, embarrassment, fear of pain and precious negative experiences being 3 major reasons why it’s so low (I can empathise with the last two reasons!) We also have a large BAME population who are also “harder to reach”
    Strategies include the ever present screening person at surgeries , who rounds up defaulters, and also all staff, clinical and non clinical, being trained and up to date to answer any questions worried women might throw at them, I’m guessing how do you opt out won’t be mentioned….! Why they can’t just leave us alone…

    • Interesting comment Kat, Wonder why they dont get the message that 41% of our women dont want this test, and let the matter drop!

      • Jess it’s actually depressing! The strategies they’ll b using aren’t new, they did a survey to find out why we don’t go, and the solutions never worked before… having screening status flagged up at first point of contact, ringing women, assuring us the nurse seen it all before, making sure all staff are trained in latest methods of harassment, extra out of hours clinics so we can have our smears… honestly our town has so many problems, high levels of poverty, substandard housing, above average number of kids on free school meals, large number of street homeless. .. and they get a grant for this, to police vaginas! ? Blergh

  70. Hi everyone,
    I am finally home it’s been a long morning, from leaving home at 9:30 and a Costa stop on the way. The appointment was for 11am and we eventually got in at 11:35. Sitting in the waiting room we got some funny looks as Hannah insisted I was with her. We got called in and I got up to go with her and the nurse told me I had to stay where I was. Hannah then said if I wasn’t allowed in, she wouldn’t be going in either so I was allowed in with the nurse giving me filthy looks. We go in and were greeted by a MALE doctor (to be fair we assumed that it would be a female Dr and didn’t request a female). He started going on about her recent smear and that there was a trace of HPV with mild Dyskaryosis and that it was very mild and would probably clear up on its own accord eventually, however he wanted to “take a look at it just to be sure”. All along we found him to be very patronising. He babbled on a bit more and said it was time to go through to the colposcopy room and gave Hannah a gown and told her to undress and put the gown on.
    She was very hesitant by now and she eventually said that she wasn’t going to do this. The Dr asked why and she replied “Because I don’t feel comfortable with having this procedure, certainly not by you as you strike me as a pervy old man”! I had to hide the giggles and sit cross legged, although the Dr had a face like thunder by now and said he had never been spoken to like that in over 25 years of carrying out colposcopies! It was decided it would be best if we sat out in the waiting room until she had calmed down.
    Eventually another nurse came out and said that she would carry out the procedure, fine and another argument started until I was allowed to go in with her. We went in and once again Hannah was asked to undress and put a gown on. She refused to wear the gown (what is it with forcing people to wear degrading hospital gowns?? ) as she wanted to keep her own clothes on and laid down on the bed with her feet in the stirrups with her jacket covering her.
    I have had two kids but when I saw the size of the speculum she was going to use, it even made me wince, although the nurse explained that she had to use a large speculum to dilate the vagina enough to see the cervix clearly. Hannah said this was the worse pain she has ever felt, and the nurse was blobbing her cervix with various liquids which she said stung like mad, another smear was taken as well. The Nurse said the changes were nothing it was almost certain that they would clear up on their own but she offered to burn them off there and then which Hannah declined, she also wanted to do a punch biopsy which was also declined so Hannah was free to get dressed. I timed the length of the procedure and from the speculum going in to being withdrawn was just over 13 minutes. As a final act of embarrassment she was given a huge pad to wear which reminded me of the looped “Dr Whites” my own mum used to use.
    Questions I am asking myself after today are:

    1, Why do they try and force cervical screening on us when its known its inaccurate and leads to more false positives and genuine positives?

    2, Why are we forced to wear degrading hospital gowns?

    3, Who invented those horrible couches with Stirrups? They are humiliating for women?

    Both of us and my daughter as well have now formally dropped out of the national screening program so it will be interesting to see what happens now as they say Hannah will be called for a repeat smear in 12 months time. Also if my daughter gets her first summons when she is 24 half in a few weeks time. I am now going to pour myself a large Gin as its been a somewhat fraught day.


    • It’s the same with childbirth. Lying on the back was invented and designed for men’s perversions and “ease” of access..

      The male doctor should know there is a first for everything and I’m glad Hannah had the courage to say what so many of his female patients have undoubtedly wanted to say to him but have lacked the courage!

      Why were they so insistent on lasering “abnormal” cells when they were mild and even they conceded, they’d highly likely revert to normal on their own?

      Did they explain that it might be painful and offer pain relief? Did they explain the potential cons (as well as the “benefits”) to her?

      This conduct is quite frankly, criminal. I have no idea why they referred her in the first place given her age and the fact that she had mild cell “changes”.

      Furthermore, I thought that all male practitioners had to have a chaperone with them?

      • Hi Apocalyptic Queen, If she had gone with the male Dr then there would have been a female nurse in with us as well. Calling him a pervy old man it wasn’t just what she said that nearly made me wet myself but the way she said it as if she really meant it (she did). As for the lasering, it was the stock “It might be a bit uncomfortable for a few seconds but it will be over very quickly” no other pain relief was offered, the benefits were explained and the only cons given were no sex until the bleeding has stopped, and no tampons or menstrual cups either.
        As we were going out we got some more dirty looks from the staff for basically standing up for our rights and not being intimidated. I feel a lot better today its a sort of relief for being coerced into having three smears when i was her age to hear someone stand up for themselves.

    • Hi Michelle, what a huge waste of time this has been and put you both through such a lot of trouble. They could have phoned you up to give you this result – that it was very mild, and would almost certainly clear up by itself. It should have automatically been a repeat in 12 months at the very most. So glad Hannah made her feelings felt, and hope these NHS staff think twice about calling people up with CIN1 again. Were the risks of a punch biopsy ever explained? Of course not. I didn’t like to say but posts on MumsNet are giving a wide variety of treatments with some women with CIN1 being told to go away and others being given all sorts of biopsies and cutaway harms. All depends on the preference and whim of the operator and not on medical evidence. Cut up cervices cause preterm birth leaving babies born too early with long term health conditions. They know this. The sooner these places are shut down the better. NHS care should be based on best evidence and not these government vanity projects.

      • Michelle – Is Hannah aware that she can purchase a self-HPV test from Superdrug online doctor?

        In some countries – the Netherlands and to some extent, Australia – they screen women for cervical cancer by offering them a self-HPV test that they can do themselves at home.

        If the test is positive, only then are women offered a smear test or investigation to look for cell changes.

        They use primary HPV screening here but the sods do it via a smear, rather than offering women the DIY testing kit so that they can do it themselves.

        Just a word of caution though – the self-screening test is supposed to be used in women over 30.

        Before that age, HPV tends to be transient and will disappear on its’ own in around 96% of cases within that age group.

        However, it may be worth giving it a go in 12 months time when they “call her up” again, and if the DIY HPV-test is negative, she can tell them where to stuff it 👌

    • Oh dear…. i’m sorry that hannah had to go through this. i agree tho, if it is Cin 1, why not just let it clear up on their own. also what is with the guy docs doing this… like crazy. I denied my colosophy, but it was going to be done by a guy doc too… ugh Also that i don;t get either, why can’t we just wear our clothes and only take off what we need to? Also, why not explain the benefits, and the harms. it’s like they just want us to go through with a barbaric procedure, that may affect our fertility in the long run. This is why i haven’t gone back to the gyncologist either.

    • All of it seems barbaric to me . But most of all the coercion and normalization of all this. I’m glad she didn’t allow the biopsy . I hope she was made aware of the risks with that . Glad you guys have opted out.

  71. Hi everyone,

    Anyone seen this?


    While I sympathise for the family, I am glad the Coroner did not cave in to pressure from activists and concluded that an earlier diagnosis would not have changed the outcome.

    You’ll still see comments wanting the doctor’s head and claiming she would still be alive were it not for his omissions 🙄

      • Says that some “minor abnormalities” were found but no action taken.

        Wasn’t it Kiwi Celt who found a study that revealed that over a third of women in NZ received a negative smear result within three years of a diagnosis of cervical cancer?!

      • All proving why pap scrape is 50% effective.
        In the instant case, the outcome depends on where the scrape is taken.
        Only the small part of cervix surrounding the endocervical canal is where the scrape down to drawing blood is done.
        Any other areas possibly needing attention are missed.
        During colposcopy areas are snipped without anesthetic which is extremely painful and causes bleeding.
        If virus is present these techniques do nothing but spread infection, causing pain and anxiety.
        None of these effectively diagnose infection.

  72. Hi Michelle,
    Wow that all sounded a bit nerve wracking, I’d make that gin a double, Hannah seems to have got away relatively Scott free but I’ve no doubt this would have taken its toll on her mental state, she has now got a year to take on board the findings of scientific studies proving the inaccuracies of this poor quality test which I hope will put her at ease.
    Hugs Jules x.

  73. Hello all,
    it’s me again- does anyone else feel stressed from time to time about this? Like i keep looking at my old records and getting really mad- almost angry. Like it’s almost that my mental state is shot about this. Back in 2020, i was referred to a coloscopy that i refused, but then they kept harassing me by sending me letters, and the harassment isn’t fair. But now all i am convinced is that doctors lie about everything! that leads me to distrust doctors and like.. does anyone else?

  74. In the post today, a letter from my GP surgery:
    “We have received notification that you did not respond to the invitation sent to you regarding bowel screening. Please contact the surgery to let us know if you would like to do this. If you would like to be removed from the programme please ring or email for an exemption form.”

    This is from not responding to my one and only bowel screening kit which starts at 60 in UK. Compare this to the endless demands from cervical and breast screening, which insist you to make an appointment, no mention of requesting a form to opt out or even suggesting that you may want to opt out. Because men are in the bowel screening programme they wouldn’t dare push men around the way they treat women.

    • Thanks for this, Jan. That explains why my husband had a sudden request to attend for a blood pressure appointment. He wondered why this turned up out of the blue. They are obviously getting incentivised for it. With the cervical screening, I see that they think it is their right to “revisit” this question at every opportunity, if you’ve previously declined. Even if you’ve opted out it seems to be the case. I replied recently to a text asking me to book a mammogram. I told them that I had no intention of ever having one, and then received a letter on how to opt out of bowel screening. I think they may have confused the 2 programmes. The email link they sent me doesn’t work and the email has been returned non-deliverable. I refuse to waste any more time on it and will ignore any further sumons that turn up over the next 2 years. They make it a huge waste of your time to opt out. Huge waste of money.

      • “Personalised care adjustment” is not what you expect if you have been listening to the media about the future of the NHS and “personalised care”. It is one size fits all.

      • It also says choosing to opt out requires a consultation to discuss this with the GP first, but you don’t have to give any reason for opting out at all, and you definitely don’t need to discuss this with the GP or anybody first. I thought they’d taken ethics on board, but they seem oblivious to anybody’s rights, and not the slightest idea that they are dealing with adults here. It’s shameful, but then it’s for GPs so maybe basic patient rights doesn’t come into their thinking?

      • That consultation with the GP before opting out smacks of –

        1. Women are stupid

        2. Women need to be controlled

        3. Women need to be told what to do

        Jesus, when will this shit ever end…

        Don’t do the stupid consult, just get the opt-out form, fill it in and send it off.

        If the office argues with you about making a consult before giving you the form, ask them why they’ve decided you’re too stupid to be trusted to make your own decisions.

        Also ask them (loudly, in the waiting room) how much money they get for forcing women to get pap smears.

      • Better yet?
        Send them a letter stating you will ONLY use Delphi Screener to test.
        My husband and I were badgered with medical speak numerous times. Then once my husband got the doctor to order Trovagene test for me, all the hassling stopped.
        So be aggressive. Tell them you’ll cooperate. But only on YOUR terms.
        They are hoping after 5 years you’ll have forgotten why you opted out. They will hope you need something and are vulnerable to manipulation. Once they have you inside the door their battle is halfway over.

      • Thanks Cat! I’ve never had a pap (I’m 48), and have no intention of having one, unless I have symptoms or something doesn’t seem right.

        My male doctor has never asked me about paps.

        I have had female doctors in the past who have gone ballistic that I don’t do them!

        I just said to them, “I’m not interested in using an inaccurate test to find a rare cancer, and I know you get incentive payments.”

        Silence after that…. 😀

        They didn’t like me much after that, I got the disapproving expressions, but they didn’t try anything after that. I’m in Australia.

      • Ask your doctor this. IF you were HPV infected, and had a pap scrape, would the virus be introduced to deep tissues where it would have more nutrients to grow?
        Isn’t disturbing the infected area going to spread the virus more?
        That’s why I like the Delphi and Trovagene. All passive.

  75. Hi ladies,
    It’s hard to believe just how much authority they believe they have over an individual’s body, if I have problem I would no doubt go and get it seen to and this would be my decision, their total authoritarian attitude in demanding conformity to their obsessive behaviour is nothing short of disgraceful , for people who are supposed to be above average intelligence they show an awful amount of ignorance and lack of respect to others, it’s because of their “doctor knows best ”attitude that the NHS has just found out that the latest patient satisfaction survey is at an all time low .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Ladies,
      So the way this reads even though I have opted out of cervical screening I am still likely to get harrassed, coerced, persuaded to attend a screening appointment? I am half hoping I am going to get contacted as I wont be backwards at coming forwards! If I get a Doctor (or receptionist) knows best, the will get my Jessica knows better reply.


      • Hi Jess, it’s true, that all the while you have a cervix you are still the target population. Can’t remember the exact wording, but have read in various places that they recommend 5 yearly reminders of your “opt out status” ( as if you didn’t know) to see if it may prompt you to change your mind. I’m sure it would vary between GPs and some more difficult than others, and all depends on how close they are to reaching one of their lovely QOF targets or not. Totally unethical to pester people like this.

  76. Hi ladies,
    Having read the damning official report on the Telford and Shrewsbury maternity scandal, where 201 babies and nine mothers died because of of
    “negligence and inappropriate care,”I think they need to get their own house in order before
    they start “ touting for new victims” also in the news recently was that last year approximately 66 women were waiting for over 1 year for cancer treatment this year that figure is
    245,000 this just fills you with confidence doesn’t it.
    Hugs Jules x.

  77. Hi Jess and Ada! I rad that too, that the GP can write every 5 years to remind you of your opt out status, they can get away with it as it’s not an official “invitation “. I would have been “due “ in 2020 but have never heard a word or had a letter, whether it’s due to covid or the fact my surgery might not chase opted outside or whether they finally realise I’m never going I don’t know! I just hope I’m not bothered any more

  78. I had the Pfizer booster shot yesterday.

    Now I’m getting strong uterine cramping. Its painful enough that I just took paracetamol.

    Has anyone else had this?

    I did a search about it, and lots of women are reporting unusual menstral/uterine problems but it’s dismissed as ‘women don’t know what they’re talking about’. Gee, where have I heard that before…

    • I experienced some mild menstrual contractions and light bleeding after the moderna. I say light, because I currently take the combined pill to address very heavy and painful periods, and “menstrual” pain is more or less non-existent with it.

      Previously, I’d had two doses of the Pfizer and was fine, apart from some flu symptoms after the second dose. My third dose was a Moderna and I did notice a subtle difference, however the issues resolved themselves after a few weeks.

    • i have heard of those symptoms before. i got two doses of the moderna and didn’t experience that. but yeah it is ridiculous that it is off as women don’t know what they are talking about.

      • I don’t trust this vaccine. There are too many athletes dying, there’s too many other ill effects people are reporting. I will not boost.
        If you’re really concerned, then find a raw hemp/MM oil. Endoca makes a good product.
        Research out of Israel has shown that CBD/CBDa (especially CBDa) wraps around the Wuhan spike and inhibits infection.
        We can attest that this is true.

      • Hey there, Cat & Mouse. I only got the moderna dose 1 and 2. I haven’t gotten any booster shots that have came out in the us. For one, i don’t even get flu shots every year- so I have no idea what the CDC/ Healthcare industry is thinking whenever they release new boosters. If others don’t get any booster shots of other diseases, what makes one think of getting one to cover this disease? I don’t blame you for not trusting the vaccine tho. For the longest time, i haven’t either but to travel we had to get the original shots.. which is a bit ridiculous. Even this whole teachers/police/heathcare workers losing their job over this is a bit much.

      • I’ve gained trust for the vaccines from the same set of sources I gained most of my distrust for these ridiculous gynecological tests – medical and scientific journals. I’ve had a total of 4 doses of Moderna now, and, yes, I’ll get them for as long as Covid is a thing – and it’s evidently endemic now. Some people will have adverse reactions to any medication. Most people have some reactions from the vaccinations – the 2nd and 4th shots had me feverish and crappy for a few days. But, as has been said before, if you don’t like how you feel with the vaccines, you REALLY wouldn’t like having Covid…. let alone the possibility for hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills. That includes having everything stuck in you everywhere, whether you want it or not.

        If you distrust the mRNA vaccines, there are several other vaccines on the global market which do not use mRNA technology at all.

      • I trust some vaccines. I’ll never trust those full of mercury or aluminum. I’ve had live and dead vaccines.
        Best that worked w/o adverse effects was the live flu that got dripped in your nose.
        No side effects.
        Using Vitamin D, zinc, and raw hemp drops (cbd/cbda), is proven to prevent.
        I’ve had 2 Pfizer Wuhan.
        Won’t be boostimg for reasons already stated.

      • Here’s the thing: i trust the vaccines because they may help in the long run, but i don’t like how the government is trying to make everyone get the vaccine, and for those who don’t want it, are forced to lose their jobs. Like make a choice you know. Same with us: We make a choice to not go to the gyno, and we would learn to deal with it. Now of course, the only difference is that COVID can cause hospitalizations, so def important to get that shot. But still, i’m hearing people on the news saying that they have side effects from the vaccine, and it should be listed as a side effect- as well as warranted as one.

      • I agree. I’ve always thought forcing people to get medical treatment and vaccinations was wrong. Everyone should have the right to make their own choice.

        I’m not anti-vax but I am for making personal choices.

        Forcing pap smears, forcing vaccinations? No way.

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