This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
It is not just with HPV testing. It’s with everything: the medical system just plain doesn’t care about women’s suffering. The most dramatic example is endometrial biopsies (uterine biopsies). They are EXTREMELY PAINFUL. Women scream, pass out from pain, and are left severely traumatised. Yet most doctors do nothing to make this procedure any more bearable. Instead, they dismiss women’s complaints, lie about the level of expected pain by calling it “mild cramping” or “just a pinch”, and coldheartedly ignore or belittle women when they cry.
Adding insult to injury, this biopsy is often totally useless. As tissue samples are collected by stabbing and tearing off pieces of woman’s uterus lining at random, they often miss localised problematic and malignant areas. That is, if cancerous tissue is extracted, then it does confirm cancer. But if the extracted tissue is normal, it means nothing.
Worst of all is that there are alternative ways to collect uterine lining samples that are totally painless and safe for the woman, and are much more reliable, but women are never offered those options. If the woman still has periods or experiences bleeding, the blood can be collected into a menstrual cup and then analysed. That blood would contain tissue particles that came from the problematic areas within the uterus, and thus would produce much more useful and trustworthy results. Not to mention that the woman would not have to undergo any tortures with risks of serious infection or uterus perforation. However this method requires more time, better organisation, better dedication and higher desire to care from the medical professionals. And that’s exactly where they don’t want to give a ***.
And for women who don’t have any bleeding, surely the modern technologies could come up with something too, if only the responsible people wished. But they don’t. It’s much easier and quicker for them to pierce the woman’s cervix with tenaculum to hold it in place, then force it open with metal rods, then shove biopsy tools into woman’s uterus and tear her flesh off from the inside. All the while the only pain management for the woman would be to tell her that it shouldn’t hurt, or to gaslight her that “everyone else tolerates this procedure well”.
Being careful takes time and effort. But woman’s trauma costs the doctors nothing. Boot her out of the door once she is able to walk again after that shock, and move on to torturing the next one. It’s a slaughter conveyor that will never change unless each woman does her research, shares her experiences, warns others, lodges official complaints, and fiercely defends herself.
It’s almost as if traumatizing women might be lucrative, just thinking of benzos and the like.
England finally following Wales and Scotland to screen every 5 years for HPV
Going on to social media now to see all the unhinged “women will die” comments
Oh Caroline they’re ranting so much….as are me and Kiwi!!
Cat and Mouse here. In CA, a new home device called “Teal” has been approved as a home substitute for pap scrape.
Check it out.
Its just been announced on the NHS facebook page that if you turn up for a smear and you are HPV clear then you wont get called again for 5 years. Needless to say there has been a meltdown and it was announced without telling the practice nurses who are also protesting. With less workload taking “smears” then hopefully they can get round to doing ear syringing without referring me to the local hospital.
jess
They might have time to deal with people who are genuinely sick for a change!
Im having a bit of fun! I have started a thread on Mumsnet asking how the English ladies feel about the change to 5 yearly screens for HPV in Women s health username Spittykityy…… Feel free to join me lol
Way to go Spittykityy, great comment https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_health/5353336-what-do-you-think-now-england-has-changed-to-5-yearly-screens-for-hpv?flipped=1
thanks, Sue! Thought I’d try to put the cat (or even the KAT) Amongst the pigeons….
sorry Sue downvoted your comment by error
or maybe not my internet is messing
Thanks Kat! It’s easy to hit the downvote by mistake but it looks like you didn’t. Plus sometimes the upvote doesn’t stick. The votes can glitch sometimes. Thanks for letting me know. Happy posting xo
Oh ladies;! The UK cervical screening programme is really a victim of it’s own “success”. New thread on Mumsnet, a petition from English ladies setting out why cervical screening should stay 3 yearly and a call for women’s experiences of having abnormal cells. A new email address saveourscreening@gmail.com!?
lets all go sign it …
Hi Ladies, I’m in a difficult state of mind right now after yet again having my wishes ignored by family. I’ve made a decision not to participate in reproductive health exams and tests and am told I’m making excuses for not doing it. I’m heartbroken that the people around me won’t accept my choices unless they’re the same as theirs. Help me understand the psychology behind people not being able to tolerate others making different health decisions then themselves and having to scold and moralize those that choose differently. They speak down to me with such authority about how my choices are unacceptable and how I’m making “excuses.”
Cat&Mouse here. Tell your family it’s your vagina not theirs. They can do what they wish with their own. Then educate them about Delphi Screener and Teal. Teal is the new passive cell collector from CA in USA.
Have any posters managed to take themselves off blood pressure meds? I need a refill and have exhausted online services (they’ll only refill for a year which I managed to stretch to two by reducing my dosage). I have an appointment with a nurse practitioner next month but am not sure I’ll keep it as I don’t think I can stomach another encounter with the medical establishment and the inevitable push for mammograms, pap smears, etc.
Judy
Cat&Mouse here. Take an advocate with you. Somebody who agrees and will back you and help you speak for yourself. Tell them you won’t do the 53% accurate pap scrape but will do Delphi Screener or TEAL which recently was approved in CA USA. Both are passive cell collectors.
Thank you Cat&Mouse – that’s excellent advice. The big issue I’ve had at medical appointments is my declining to have a mammogram. I thought with emerging evidence that any benefit is small, and the harms real, that there would be more shared decision making. Instead, there now seems to be an almost hysterical coercion, bordering on dystopia. I guess grown women are not allowed to weigh the risks vs. benefits and make their own decisions 😦
Cat&Mouse again. Make sure you’re getting a digital mammogram if you go through. Take your husband if applicable and insist he be there. He can hide behind the lead screen with the tech. That’s what I did with my hubby. I needed him as I’m disabled. Piss on what the tech thought. Too bad. Let him see what it’s like to have 30lbs mash your breasts. Doctors claim this weight does not increase metastasis but I debate that. Every squeeze a zit?
Another thing. If you have dense or fibrous tissues cancer can hide amongst them. And be missed entirely. Thermography which looks for hot spots might help but what would really work is ultrasound or MRI. U/S or MRI looks at the water balance of cells. Tumor cells have a different water balance than normal cells. Also, there might be evidence of blood vessel formation that mammogram won’t see because it can’t.
Have labs and genetic testing to see if you have markers that make you more susceptible. Then ask lots of questions.
Lay off animal fats and meat; especially that from factory farms raised on mostly corn.
BP meds can be stopped but should be tapered slowly to allow your body to adjust. Some articles about the decrease in parameters and potential risks
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7810411/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6030030/
https://theconversation.com/new-blood-pressure-guidelines-may-make-millions-anxious-that-theyre-at-risk-of-heart-disease-93349
This is very helpful- thank you
Judy 😊
Thanks Cat&Mouse for your informative replies. I actually don’t want any mammogram, digital or otherwise nor additional testing. I have a low tolerance for over diagnosis which breast screening is rife with. I just want the medical establishment to respect the informed decisions I have made or at least stop harassing me.
Judy
Totally agree with you Judy, I’m 100% the same.
Hi everyone, I’ve been posting here for a long time and unfortunately wrote the recent post about family not respecting my wishes to not screen. Anyway, I think most women here are from the UK but I wanted to share an American author I’ve been reading lately that gave us a mention in one of her books. Her name is Barbara Ehrenreich and she’s now passed but was on our side. I’m currently reading two of her books “For Her Own Good” and “Natural Causes: An Epidemic of Wellness, the Certainty of Dying, and Killing Ourselves to Live Longer.” I’m reading these at the same time so I forget which book we get the shoutout in, but both books are related to our conversations here. I also recommend her c-span interview with Natalie Angier where they mention the obsession with screening and prevention. My comment won’t post with links but if you search c-span for either author the interview will come up, titled: “Afterwards with Barbara Ehrenreich.” I hope some of these resources are helpful. I’m from an extremely high control family and your site is where I originally learned that the doctors and nurses that were demanding access to my body actually didn’t have the right to me that they claimed. I was so sheltered and uneducated (no high school education) that I didn’t know and was of course terrified. 20 years later I’m still reading here. Thank you to everyone that helped me.
hi Anonymous thanks for this! I ordered both books and also her Nickel and Dimed about low wages, this site is indeed mentioned in Natural causes, and what I’ve read so far is really interesting
Thanks Anonymous for letting us know about the books. Thanks Kat for looking into it! I’ve copied the link to the book with the mention:
Natural Causes
I loved Nickel and Dimed, probably my favorite book by her. It was really comforting during my time working as a maid. I hope you like it too!
It looks good too. I love books that are comforting. It’s sad she’s passed on but it’s good to know she was fighting the same battle as us.
There are no recent articles about HPV testing and newer treatments for HPV infections. Please, could there be some.
What I have found out. Most Canadian provinces have moved to primary HPV testing. This is done by a doctor with a speculum and swab. The HPV test is processed first and then cytology is done if the HPV is positive. These tests are covered by public health insurance.
Some provinces allow for self swab HPV tests. Ontario is allowing a self swab HPV test. The self swab kit for HPV is from Lifelabs. IT requires a doctor’s signature to order, the Lab results are uploaded to Ontario lab results database. There is no privacy. Cost is $130. Same type of self swab kits are available in other Canadian provinces without doctor involvement.
I am disappointed in the lack of privacy. I don’t want any HPV or cytology (PAP) result in a government database because then I am afraid it will follow me around like a criminal record. So Then every time I go to a doctor about any issue I will be asked about a bad HPV or PAP test?
I found out there are some less invasive and violent treatments for HPV infections other than burning or cutting off the cervix.
Anti HPV gels and sprays:
DeflaGyn (Europe, Mexico, some South American)
Colpofix (Spain)
Papilocare gel (Spain, Portugal, France)
Gynin’s Papilguard Vaginal Gel (?country)
In trials: trametinib (USA)
All not available in Canada. If I could get a self swab with private online results and some gel to put up my vagina to treat HPV myself, I would be happy.
I used to use some homemade stuff with green tea extract capsules and aloe vera gel or coconut oil. Also we made an ointment with green tea capsule contents in petroleum jelly which people noticed killed off genital warts in a few days.
yes I’m really enjoying Nickel and Dimed too. If anyone in US is interested and it’s available there try Low pay Britain by Polly Toynbee who wrote intro to Nickel and Dimed. The UK equivalent. Natural causes was interesting reading too
Another sex abusing male gynecologist
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/more-than-55-women-accuse-army-ob-gyn-of-sexual-abuse-filming-as-fort-hood-faces-scrutiny-over-silence/ar-AA1QsZYk?ocid=BingNewsSerp
I finally got a username. I wrote about the Barbara Ehrenreich books/interview above. Anyway…today I tried finding a new doctor who wouldn’t make paps/pelvics mandatory. Everyone except one receptionist was nice but nearly all told me I wouldn’t be seen as a patient since paps/mammo are required by my health insurance. They outright told me that the doctors get paid less if you aren’t compliant with health insurance. I remember the days they used to hide that fact.
One receptionist was unbelievably nasty. After telling her what happened to me and why I don’t want those tests she actually got angry, called me non-compliant and called the pap mandatory. What has to happen to someone for them to become that? I left that call shaking. Later a receptionist from the same practice called me and was nice and explained the situation. Doing better now. Trying to find a doctor that will listen. No one seems to have much of a problem with the way healthcare is run in the US or the fact that this is corporate assault, not sure what else to call it. I’m trying to pay out of pocket and see who I want. I would rather starve for weeks than have someone force their way into my body for a better pay rate.
Dailu fail today ladies bemoaning the fact that about 9 million Brits aren’t taking up their life saving screening ‘invitations”. This is all tests not just cervical. The usual indignant men bemoaning they have no prostate screening programmes. I’ve been plugging away
See some videos on YouTube Indigo Jackson “I refuse my Pap smear”.
hi ladies ! Oh dear! It’s official, Tray Bonsai Canoe on the daily fail site tells me I’m a troll?! I strongly opposed women getting screened apparently, but I support black and Asian men having prostate screening because I pointed out they are more prone to prostate cancer than white men?? I also don’t understand, apparently, I pointed out that women with symptoms need diagnostic tests not a screening test, but she tells me by the time symptoms appear it’s probably too late?? So you could have all your smears develop symptoms in-between so what is her point? Sue please don’t kick me off the site for being a troll I promise I’ll behave!
This lady has had a bad time of it , older woman, persistent HPV and had cancerous lesions removed so she’s banging the smear test drum but still….
Haha Kat that’s great! I’m glad you’re still putting up a good fight on our behalf. Thank you!
Ah yes, the old “it happened to me so everyone must act as if my experience was their own” trope. Almost every argument from an individual I’ve seen for screening is based on this.