Unnecessary Pap Smears Discussion Forum

This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion.  The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.

Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/   This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/

Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.

3,418 comments

  1. A huge welcome to Jessica! And this really got me thinking about how little the medics respect informed consent, even though I always knew they didn’t! We have 2 new women found their way here: one had an appointment made for her she told the nurse she wasn’t attending, Jessica was told to strip at a pill check( love your reply to that btw!!) 2 more women that we know are opting out… surely even the medics realise now control of the herd is. Lost?! But alas there always seems to be dosh to throw at the vagina police….

  2. Hi! I have been reading on this website for a few months and I have found it very helpful. But I think we need to take things further and extend this to children as well. Some paediatricians examine kids genitals for no reason every year. I literally read an article by a doctor saying it was good because it conditions kids to accept that kind of examination later on. That’s literally GROOMING!!! These exams were traumatic for me and are for many other kids because parents remain in the room but make their kids have them which is embarrassing and ruins any bond of trust with the parent. Same with digital rectal exams for kids when an X-ray can tell you the same thing. If you have to do one sedate the kid, no little girl wants some middle aged man penetrating their anus while their parents hold them down. Yes this happened to me. I still blame myself because my parents told me it was my fault. It wasn’t. I had no knowledge of sex but had a profound sense that the doctor had done something very wrong and shameful and that he must have enjoyed it in a sick way. After this I started displaying similar behaviours to children who are sexually abused. Studies show this is common. Children are very vulnerable because their parents consent for them. They literally don’t have bodily autonomy. Maybe if more children were given the choice to decline these exams, especially little girls, then more of them would grow up to not take shit in the doctors office. They even routinely finger babies’ anuses, it’s a actual thing. It’s horrible. And kids who are sexually assaulted are then put through it again in the exam room. I saw a YouTube video of how they position them over a pillow, just the way couples do for doggy style sex. The girl stayed clothed for the video but she looked so uncomfortable and humiliated. If she remembers this or sees it when she’s older it will really screw her up. You can also find so many “medical” photos of kids with abnormal genitalia online and they are always being held down. I guarantee you that kid does not want their bits on display. Everyone agrees that having child prisoners strip and get photographed for medical experiments at Auschwitz was horrible and demeaning, so why is it ok at a regular hospital? There’s a reason women and children have historically been lumped together as a category. They see us as the same. The think none of us are deserving of bodily autonomy and it needs to change. They literally view women as children. They think they are the masters of our bodies. But they are wrong, we are learning to fight back. Let’s lift the children up with us.

    • What was reason you were fingered as a child?
      My husband experienced this as some bs appendix exam. How is a funer up a child’s ass diagnose that? Anybody?
      A friend of family took her daughter for pap scrape at 16.
      She eventually became lesbian.
      He repeated a complete exam every 6 months as her results were irregular.
      He knew per medical school texts a developing cervix would show as irregular. But she is true blond so he used her…
      And you’re right. Kids remember and negative experiences will affect them for life.

  3. Hi ladies,
    I’m with Blieta on this one, from tomorrow mon 1st nov vaccination teams are to be deployed across England’s schools with the intention of administering the covid 19 vaccine to children between the ages of 12 to 15, they are to give talks to the children the aim of which is to achieve a large coverage, a child of this age is generally under parental consent, but they have found a stepping stone to get round this, by applying what is known as the Gillick competency test, if the parents do not want their child to have the vaccine, but the child does after “ assessing the child” and is deemed competent parental control can be over ruled by them and the injection given . I’m sure all the women here know how coercive and underhand these people are, lying about the benefits and barely glancing over the harms so how would a twelve year old stand any chance at all against them. My second point is ,would these devious sods try to incorporate this tactic into the HPV vaccine programme .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Kat, I’ve just seen it on the news. It’s good news, but why should they keep hassling this group of young women to still get screened? They should provide the statistics and allow women to make their own decisions, but the bullying goes on and on, and you’d think NHS has enough to do with COVID, right now. Instead of that we see they’re still pestering them to have 3 yearly screenings, when we know HPV testing can spread to 5 yearly as a minimum. The comments don’t display very well on my tablet, but already seen one complaining of the pestering you get if you refuse. GPs are clearly desperate.
      This really has to stop.

    • Ah yes, due to another number crunching exercise from that rabid pro-screener Sasieni.

      I’m glad I don’t donate to CRUK, knowing that’s where his funding normally comes form – I’d hate to think my money is going into the pocket of a man who’s spent the last thirty years cherry picking data to prove how ‘successful’ our NHS programmes are.

  4. Good morning everyone! I posted on here nearly two weeks ago and I thought I’d give you all a little update. I printed the form off, filled it in, scanned it, uploaded it, and last Friday got a letter back from the national screening service saying I had formally opted out of cervical screening. I AM FREE!!!!!!!

    errrrr no……. You have heard of the vagina police, well now the Cervix Stasi are onto me, the dreaded NHS GP’s receptionist. I got in from work at 2:30 this morning after a flight back form hell. at 9:30 my mobile starts ringing from a withheld number. I switch the phone off and pull the covers over my head. The next thing the land line rings and thinking it might be my mum or dad trying to call me urgently I run down the stairs and pick the call up. Hello its Surgery hear, we need you to come in and see the Dr urgently. I reply “Who is “Surgery”, and who are you”. Its your Doctors surgery and the Dr has requested you come in and see her urgently. Can I ask Why?” “well no as its confidential” “Then I certainly wont be coming in”. A long backwards and forwards discussion now takes place……”Well its because YOU HAVE DROPPED OUT OF CERVICAL SCREENING” (shock horror, lock me up, I am contagious, clearly insane, and am a danger to the general public).
    “yes that’s right”, “May I ask why”? I am asked “You may not” I reply. “look this is a very serious matter” ( so serious the surgery might lose some of its attendance bonus) “I agree its a serious matter, inserting a foreign object into my vagina without my consent is an ofence punishable by imprisonment”.
    “we are not getting very far here are we Jessica, I have made you an appointment for this Friday at 9am”, “Wow that’s soon, I thought you lot were supposed to be cracking under the volume of work, don’t bother I wont be attending” “now don’t be silly, we will see you on Friday at 9am, please avoid sexual intercourse in the 24 hours before Friday”.
    The phone goes dead and the arrogant cow hangs up on me. I have just switched my phone on and sure enough I have a text message confirming an appointment on Friday. I have just been on line and cancelled it and had a text back confirming its cancelled.
    I just cant believe the cheek and desperation of them to drag women in and put them through this process.Hopefully I have heard the last of this now

    • Can’t believe what you have written in your post, Jess. Your GP surgery clearly doesn’t know that they are behaving illegally and they cannot force any medical tests, or even force you to come in for a “friendly chat”. You could say that you will report them to the GMC, your local Clinical Commissioning Group, or PALS at the very least. The receptionist sounds a complete rottweiler.
      So pleased you managed to say all you did, and put them on the backfoot to reveal the real reason for their calling you. You could also mention that the leaflet clearly states that it is your choice, you have made your choice and have followed the procedures in the leaflet to opt out, and they are in breach of the General Data Protection Act to continue to harrass you by phone, mail etc.

    • Holy cow, Jess, that was nasty. What a cheek! I wouldn’t have cancelled the appointment, I would have let them set it up, wait for you, and then realise you’re not coming! And then give them hell on the phone when they called about your non-attendence. I would be ripping them a new one down the phone about treating a mature, intelligent adult woman like a 5-year-old kid. Definitely make a formal complaint about this. They’re very practised at pushing women around. Bloody hell. I’d switch surgeries if I was you.

    • When they try shit like that…scheduling an appointment for you anyhoo when you have already said no…
      Then…
      Ask them if they will do a taste test first.
      I mean, if they are gonna treat you like shit then why not do it back to them?
      When they become offended…then ask them…
      “How does it feel?”
      See how they answer when they are treated as if they don’t matter.

  5. Jess that’s appalling the way she spoke to you! I seem to remember it is actually ILLEGAL to continue to harass an opted out person about screening! Maybe you could point that out to and Stazi should she not get the message!! Love your comments what u said to her!!😸

    • Hi to both Katty and Ada, thanks for your comments. To be honest I was half expecting a call from them, and I had a lot of my answers already in my head, more annoyed that the receptionist hung up on me as I had a few more words for her as well. I am a commercial pilot and i addressed her the way I would a drunk passenger who is one more sentence from being thrown off of a flight. I either shouted or swore but remained calm but in a very firm/assertive tone, and psychologically (or so we are told on training) this will have the best effect in diffusing a situation.
      I am a woman working in what is largely a male dominated occupation and domineering male know it all types are very rare in aviation, but if I had of kept the appointment for Friday and the GP had been male I would have counteracted every point he made with fact based arguments. My biggest regret from yesterday is that I didn’t get to tell the receptionist that it takes seven years to train to be a GP and all of seven minutes to train a receptionist to think that she is a GP.

      • I must remember that one about the 7 minutes, Jess! Pity we won’t see any great conversation exchanges like that on “GPs Behind Closed Doors” as I’d find that great TV!
        What so infuriates me about all this is their assumption that they control you and can force this test on you without your consent, and this is often from other women too. Women who would call themselves feminists are even behaving like your receptionist, and the GP should be fully aware of patient rights. Can you imagine men being called up in this fashion and spoken to like that? I can only guess at the abuse they’d get from a great many men, and yet we are expected to put up with this scolding and hurry along to be good girls so GPs can get their money. Consent and patient involvement is such a major thing nowadays, and yet it seems to be totally absent from women’s screening programmes. I’m often amazed that the authors who publish on cervical screening maintain a blindness to the bullying and coercion that goes on to achieve the uptake they hope for. They blithely maintain that women even appreciate the service and find it all totally acceptable and are in complete denial that any sort of force or underhandedness ever goes on. They claim that the women go because they are fully informed and consenting, yet your experience still shows it hasn’t changed much since the 1990s.

      • A commercial pilot? That’s why you’re ready with the paperwork. You sound like my husband dealing with the parasites. Good for you.
        If you want, get a self-test, preferably the Delphi Screener. Can you find one in UK?
        Once you get that done, shove it in their faces…as I do the Trovagene HPV Urine Test.
        What do you like to fly most?

  6. Hi Jes,
    I urge you to file a complaint at the surgery mention the way you were harassed by the receptionist even though you have officially opted out you dealt with the situation admirably, but many other women cannot stand up to them and buckle under pressure, do this for them and when the receptionist gets her ass kicked maybe she wouldn’t be so quick to try this to some other poor soul , secondly enjoy your pap free lifestyle.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Jules/Ada, I do plan to complain yes, just working out the best way of doing so. Interesting enough when the Receptionist called me she just said its “Surgery here” so I don’t actually know who called me so I don’t know who I can complain about individually just their policy. She isn’t as daft as we think she is! I am off to Dubai this afternoon for work and back home on Friday morning. Just as I will be heading off to sleep will be the time of the appointment that I cancelled so for sleeps sake I will be switching off both my mobile and unplugging the land line.
      Its going to be nearly midnight tonight when we land and the early hours of the morning before we eventually get to the hotel, bur I am going see if I can get a conversation going tomorrow if any of the cabin crew are around the pool to see if anyone else has felt coerced into getting this done.

      • If you note the time and date of the call, you can find out who was on shift.
        HR professional here.

  7. Jess you have just reminded me:? There was a pro screening site called cervicalscreen1 where the woman running it had had dodgy cells removed and now she was on a mission to support other women, she dragged various ppl out of the woodwork and one was a cabin crew for a Middle Eastern airline who said on her airline smears are a mandatory part of the medical process, and she thought it should be compulsory on all airlines! A few of us from here jumped on her, dunno if the site is still up and running!!

    • That middle eastern airline who says it’s mandatory…? Know why?
      Because its management wants to protect its pilots from contaminated cockpits if you know what I mean.
      Of course it’s not testing the male pilots…
      What…? Them doing anything wrong or spreading any disease? How could anybody think that? Come on man!

      • What misogynistic tripe!

        I remember that Cervicalscreen site.

        That woman running it was a total fruit loop!

  8. Hi Jess,
    It would be easy for them to find out who made the call , just mention the day and the time of the call I’m sure they could work it out who was on duty then, “ and then let them have it ”say now that you have officially opted out that you will now consider any further contact on this matter will be considered as harassment and they will be hearing from your legal representative and you might as well tell them that you expect an apology off the trogg who rang you.
    Hugs jules x.

  9. Hi ladies,
    I have just found out that there is an app you can download to your phone which enables you to record your phone calls , if you let the caller know this at the start of the conversation it’s totally legal, I wonder if they would be so bossy and coercive if they knew that they were being recorded, (probably not)
    or you could always say that the call is being recorded even though it’s not, hopefully this should catch them off guard.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi everyone, I am back and thanks for your comments to my post. I am going to complain and over the weekend I will write a letter that I will send via recorded delivery. Had a good crew on my trip to Dubai and back and when we met late afternoon yesterday for afternoon tea, I mentioned that I had been grumpy earlier in the week as I had been woken up by the Drs demanding I go for cervical screening despite the fact that I had formally withdrawn from the program. You could have heard a pin drop” You mean you can opt out it this? I thought that you HAD to have it done”.
      I went on to mention this site and forwarded the link to the opt out form and the website to 5 other women aged between 23 and 50 from across the UK who are now going to formally opt out. The younger ones said that there are a lot of youtubers and influencers posting saying they had gone for their first appointment and there’s no getting out of it you HAVE to have it done.
      Drs are not quite so pushy as they were 15 or so years ago but it’s still mentioned, more so by nurses at pill checks who ask when was your last period and when told that it was 3 weeks ago say “you are ideal for a smear test here and now let’s get on with it shall we” which I think is terrible as it uses what is called a creative pause (a technique usually employed by sales people) as when asked a question followed by silence it puts the person on the other end under pressure to say something usually yes.
      I will put a copy of my complaint letter up on here once I have finished writing it. Interestingly enough as a commercial pilot each year I have to have a CAA medical that lasts for around to hours and involves having an ECG. I wear lycra shorts and sports bra for the medial as it involves some exercise work too. Despite the detailed nature of the CAA medical no one has ever asked about when my last smear was or even mentioned my vagina.

      • Go Jess! Serious respect to you, though it’s awful that so many of your colleagues still think smears are mandatory! It shows that sadly the push to smear is still very real, though I’m guessing more are opting out!

      • Well done for standing up for yourself Jess and great to have you here on the site. Ugh, I can’t even count the number of times I was berated during pill checks, even called ‘stupid’ and ‘immature’ in order to force me to comply. I remember the leaflet that came with my pill even said ‘your doctor may check your sexual organs before issuing another prescription’ and I didn’t even question it – just dreaded that I would be forced to submit to it. I wish I’d had the understanding I do now when I was in my early 20s, but I was only ever exposed to the standard narrative that it was ‘for my own benefit’ and I would be extremely unwise not to comply.

      • I was also pleasantly surprised actually that the women you spoke to were not only receptive to your point of view, but wanted to opt out too. My workplace is a hotbed of screening fanatics who love swapping smear test stories over lunch, ironically enough about how awful the test is, whilst berating the ‘stupid women who put their lives and families at risk, I’ve got five friends, don’t you know, who wouldn’t be here now if it wasn’t for the smear”.

      • Thank you for your update on this. So glad you managed to tell other women about this site and that the test isn’t compulsory. It is very sad that so many women are blinded into believing it is, yet a lot of those involved in setting up and operating the programme believe there is no coercion at all and that women are voluntarily turning up for it without any pressure from those in charge. It’s what they call informed consent for this test, yet we know it is anything but. Let’s hope that these 5 women go on to tell another 5 women and get the message out there that women own their bodies and that they are not NHS property for GPs to make money out of. I used to work for the CAA at Gatwick, but nothing to do with the medical side of things!

  10. “Please avoid sexual intercourse in the 24 hours before Friday” WTH? Why would you need to avoid sex in the 24 hours before a ‘friendly chat’ with a doctor/nurse? That would mean they think it’s a forgone conclusion that they will be able to ‘persuade’ you into compliance. Absolutely disgusting. Well done Jess for standing your ground.

  11. Hi ladies, I haven’t posted for a while, but I still keep up to date with the site and read everyday. It’s just that I somehow don’t feel apart of the group as much now because of the way I wimped out at my appointment, so I’ve been doing loads of reading to try and redeem myself I have come across something that may interest you, when you go to your surgery to see the doctor you’re led to believe that anything you discuss is confidential
    think again , information is released to NHS digital who then pass on this information to other healthcare groups, pharmaceutical companies, universities ,research companies , and charities pretty much anyone who are prepared to pay for it. The information supplied to them is about your medications, domestic abuse , sexual health , and a whole lot more it includes your name ,postcode and other identifying factors although they stress that this is coded to prevent an individuals identity to be revealed , but many groups have set up opposed to this saying that if your information has been released to more than one place that by using a method called cross referencing it would be possible to identify some , and that the NHS system has been breached before by hackers and there is also accounts of human error , but there is a way round this and that is to opt out, you can stop your go surgery from releasing information by downloading a form called a type 1 opt out form , and you can stop NHS digital from releasing your information by opting out as well by using a type 2 national data opt out form, ( just type in type one opt out form and it all comes up) the government tried to bring this in under a cloak of secrecy to gain as much data as they could on its citizens .imanaged to opt out of both in 20 minutes , why is it that you are always included unless you opt out with these people? I have decided to take charge of my own destiny now and have blocked the surgery’s number from my phone and deleted it from my phone list and have decided to never go to them again for anything, and any letters that come Jules has been told to just bin them they are never going to make me feel the way I did ever again. I see we have some new members on the site ( Chloe and Jessica) welcome to you both , the women here are fantastic as I’m sure you’ll find out that.
    Ps I think you have up until March 2022 to use your opt out choice.
    Much love Annette x

  12. Hi again everyone, I have now drafted my letter of complaint which is outlined below (natuarlly I have used my real name, DOB, and NHS number. Feel free to copy any part of it you like if you are going to complain too. I have posted it this morning via first class recorded delivery so there is no excuse for them to say they havent received it:

    NHS Number: ********
    DOB: **/**/****

    Dear Sirs,
    Allow me to introduce myself my name is Kelly-Yvonne Jelley and I recently opted out of the national cervical screening programme which was duly acknowledged in writing from the programme itself. Imagine my surprise when a couple of days after receiving this letter I had a call on both my landline and my mobile from one of your receptionists saying that you wanted to speak to me as a matter of urgency as to why I had opted out. As I have said many times during face to face appointments that I am not interested in attending a cervical screening appointment and I have now formally opted out of this and I expect my choice to be respected. I would now like to make a formal complaint about your surgery based on the following points:

    1, I do not expect to be coerced into attending a cervical screening (or any other type of test for that matter) by a receptionist.

    2, I would like to complain formally about the attitude of your receptionist who called me. She hung up before I was able to obtain her details.

    3, I would like to complain formally about the attitude of your practice nurses who pester me relentlessly into having a cervical screening test that I do not want.

    When these complaints have been investigated then measures will need to be implemented to prevent this type of incident from happening again and these measures will need to be sustained. Additionally, under the freedom of information act can you send me the following:

    1, The training matrix for front of house staff. I am aware that it takes around seven years to train as a GP but it would appear it takes all of seven minutes to train a receptionist to think that she is a GP

    2, The standard operating procedure that all staff are following to coerce women into attending cervical screening.

    3, The amount of money the surgery received in 2020 and 2019 from the NHS as a bounty for the number of patients screened.

    I find it incredible that at a time when the NHS claims its buckling under the workload that your staff have nothing better to do than to harass me for something I do not want. Surely this time would be better spent treating elderly and vulnerable patients who genuinely need care. This incident has left my view of this surgery considerably impugned.

    I await your reply in due course.

    Yours faithfully,

    K Y Jelley.

    I will of course let you know what type of response I get if any.

    Jess

    • I would also add in something about being told to turn up oven ready*, as Chrissy highlighted above.

      *ie prepared for a test you have formally opted out from

      • OMG Jan “oven ready” that’s made me laugh so much I am literally sitting here in hysterics. Its too late now as I have posted the letter.

    • I can almost hear an orchestra playing your favorite music to congratulate you for that excellent letter.
      Did you seal the envelope with KY?
      Especially cool was the remark about 7 minutes to train a receptionist.
      How many of those clowns readily spread their legs for the doctor but for not their significant other…

  13. Need some advice on what to do on finding a new primary care doctor. I just found out yesterday that I’ve been dropped by my primary care doctor. No notice or explanation except that they claim I’ve not been in since 2017. I’ve been in since, but on a number of occasions, I’ve had to seek care elsewhere because the Dr. never has any appointments available. Also, the receptionist is very rude and often won’t pass along messages to the doctor or allow me to make an appointment even when ill or injured.

    I spoke to a different receptionist yesterday and she too was extremely rude and unsympathetic and said I would have to go to urgent care and that they could not recommend another Dr. for me. I asked how I could get back on the roster and she said I would have to register as a new patient, but he was not accepting any new patients, so I was out of luck.

    I honestly don’t want to have to go through the hassle of finding a new doctor and having to fight the inevitable questions and pressure about the “well woman” stuff. Any ideas on how to find a good primary care doctor?

    • Hi Susanne , I live in the US too and only use walk in clinics. I do not have insurance. Do you have to have a primary? Some people do use a PA as a primary. They are less likely to push the preventive stuff. I think there’s a difference between walk ins and urgent cares. Where’s Wilkins were I go ( to the same pa). She said she has regular patients.

      • I don’t know what the general trend is but it was PAs that were the most forceful about the paps and managed to force me into gyn procedures/exams as a kid. I’ve heard some people mention that PAs may have imposter syndrome since they’re not real doctors and that can force some of the unethical ones to lash out in this way. I have no idea, but that’s been my personal experience.

    • Hi Susanne
      I’m in the US too. It’s really difficult now because many physician’s practices have been bought up by large hospital systems. The doctors are basically following a script from the corporations they work for to drum up as much business as possible including pressure to see a GYN from an affiliated office, to have a mammogram at their center, etc. If you are able to see a NP that may be better as they often seem to be more accepting of different viewpoints. Please keep us posted.

      • The walk-in I go to, does not push screening on me. When they do the patients history, they only once asked after the date of a last Pap smear and if I have ever had a mammogram? I said no and the nurse didn’t bat an eye or scold me , however I was scolded by a nurse years ago at another walk in when I didn’t have a last Pap smear date for her to record. I hate that question btw. One time my grandmothers friend recommended her PA and said she’s so greate and listens. She can do your Pap smears too.” I keep quite because I didn’t want to explain that I don’t do that screening. But I almost went to her later for a chest pain. I’m glad I canceled. I get the feeling she might if pushed paps. The walk in I go to does have regular patients. She prescribed me anxiety meads. She was nice and only addressed the reason for the visit. I’m not sure her practice is even equipped for gynecologist care. I know different areas are different. I know there’s a difference between walk-in clinics and pas .

    • Jesus Susanne, they sound bloody awful! Talk about militant doctoring. You’re better off away from them, they’re on a power trip. I’d leave them a review saying what your experience was with their ‘care’.

    • I’m also in the US. My experience finding a new family doctor has been mixed.

      I’d gone without for a number of years, and finally needed to see one. I didn’t bring it up, he didn’t ask – over a period of several years. I moved, and after a few years needed to see one, as a blood sugar screening given at a flu clinic showed that my genetics for diabetes had caught up to me. She didn’t ask over a period of several years. Then, she “disappeared” – I haven’t figured out why. I had to find another. I’ve been pushed and harassed – including by a receptionist who told me “the nurses” required that I have a pap test and pelvic (I hate that term – it has nothing to do with my pelvic bones!), and told me to turn up at my diabetes check “oven ready”. Sorry. I outright refused. Another time, when this new doctor was out on maternity leave, I saw a new resident – whose major focus of the diabetes check was to talk me into penetrating my vagina. He seemed to have no interest whatsoever in my diabetes, or blood test results (which I also got from the lab). Grrrr. The implication was it was part of the “price” I’d have to pay to receive treatment for my diabetes – the #7 cause of death in the US. The next year, I just couldn’t handle it! I did some negative things when trying to deal with it.

      As of next time, I plan to tell them I do not consent to the test, I do not consent to discussing it. I’ll point out that I’m paying for it by the minute, and it’s partly being paid for by Tricare – a government-paid-for “insurance” for military members, retirees, and their dependents. As they’re threatening my health care, it’s coercion, a type of force, and using it to gain access to my vagina and/or anus is a crime. Get up to leave if they persist, and tell them that when I walk out I intend to start filing complaints and reports. It’s upcoding a visit, or downright fraud, when they’re charging the Federal Government for a visit which has as it’s only purpose to coerce a patient into an OPTIONAL test which the patient has refused, and not address the reason they came in. That’s “defrauding the Federal Government” – a crime in the US that can get you buried under the jail. Conveniently, there is a toll-free “Fraud, Waste, and Abuse” line. It’s patient abandonment to withhold treatment – another crime (state and federal). Perhaps some investigative reporters would be interested. Perhaps some state agencies. Perhaps the city government that gives them an occupancy permit for this (with reporters present at the city counsel meeting). As it’s using coercion as a form of force to “allow” penetration of my vagina/anus, complete it with a police report.

      For Kleigh, I’ve gone to walk-in clinics, and been asked “When was your last pap?”, and they told me they could do it “today” along with wrapping up a broken hand or whatever.

  14. Hi Susanne,
    With rude receptionists and a doctor that can’t be bothered with you, why the hell would you want to go there anyway, look around I’m sure you could find an improvement on that bunch, arm yourself with the information on this site to avoid unwanted tests and seek out the care you deserve.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Yes, Jules exactly – there is so much information on this site that can be helpful in learning to assert oneself in a medical setting whether in the NHS as you and many posters are or in our insurance-based system in the US. Both systems have issues respecting informed consent in woman’s healthcare so assertiveness is crucial.

  15. Hi ladies,
    I’ve been reading up on the contraceptive pill access in the states, it seems there are a few groups setting up over there to make it accessible over the counter the strongest opposition is from gynocologists themselves saying women would miss their
    “vital checks ” if they could just go to a pharmacy and buy them , others have been more honest about it and said if it happens we might as well shut up shop and find another profession (so that’s the real reason as if we didn’t know that already) it seems that until women in the states have the same freedom as over 100 other countries that have now taken the pill off script,that they will carry on trying to push these tests to rinse every last dime out of the female population before the states catch up with everyone else, they are all so corrupt. So if possible start up similar groups or sign petitions it’s time to force change over there, and in turn this will free you of doctors pressure in the exam room.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I read yesterday that some states are now allowing pharmacists to prescribe the pill after a questionnaire is asked. They even said most woman aren’t aware of this option though. It’s not in all states .

  16. Hi Everyone, I haven’t posted on here for a few days as I have been away with work. My GP surgery have received the complain letter I sent last week and have acknowledged it and said that my complain is being dealt with and they will provide me with a detailed reply within 14 days. As soon as I have something more detailed I will share it with you

    Kind regards,

    Jess

    • Wishing you luck Jess! It seems that many of us here have spent much of our lives in a battle for bodily autonomy. I hope they begin to respect your rights and that it changes the way they interact with other patients too.

      • Jo’s Trust page on promoting informed decisions https://www.jostrust.org.uk/professionals/cervical-screening/informed-choice One of the risks is a ‘small chance of overtreatment’. Small chance? That’s not what I’ve read. And, nothing about the harms that can result from said treatments. And, why aren’t they pushing for self testing? It’s literally the same thing as the HPV primary test that is currently carried out in person. I laughed out loud at the part on the page where it said “The information should be unbiased and factual – not swayed towards either the positive or negative”. Isn’t this the charity that produces resources aimed at young people to convince them of the benefit of having the test, has posters saying “it’s five minutes that could save your life”, has done nothing to remedy the appropriation of their logo for such odious campaigns as the “don’t be a diva, it’s only a beaver” and which is now rolling out their ‘time to test’ initiative where they want people to ‘raise awareness of the benefits of screening’ and have it mentioned at team meetings and even weddings??!

      • At a wedding?!?! At a wedding?!?!?! Just the thing for every new bride. I thought the droit de signeur was abandoned by force of the peons 100s of years ago.

      • Lol Beth, the were talking about giving our pin badges or something like that at weddings. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if the next step is to have some kind of template to incorporate awareness raising about smear tests into the vows, or wedding speeches!

  17. The weddings thing is hilarious considering most people think of marriage as the end of having additional partners where HPV could be exchanged. Maybe it’s for the guests? Party favor?

  18. Hi ladies,
    I’m still laughing at the wedding bit, maybe they want to include it in the wedding vows, To have and to hold and from this day forward to undergo relentless testing by the NHS , they really are beyond help
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Jo’s wanting to push this at weddings is absolutely disgusting.

      Is it a way to try to encourage new grooms to become coercive about ensuring their new wives attend their screenings? I see how it could be used as a tool for abuse too, especially if he may be paranoid about her cheating!

      I can’t imagine anything more gross to discuss at a wedding if I’m honest and sounds a bit misogynistic. I’ve heard some women who say they wanted a “health MOT” before they got married to ensure they were free of STD (you’d think both partners would do this at the start of their relationship) and “fertile” 😬
      So, I can imagine how the discussion of a smear at a wedding might be framed. Vile!

      • A few years ago it, the twat care rage was al about “pre conception care”.
        Gurss that didn’t work out.
        Now the bride to be gets additional pressure; this time from her groom.
        He won’t have a clue why he’s following the orders either.
        Why isn’t Jo’s BS nagging the groom about having a q-tip shoved down his penis for an STD test too?

      • I remember that preconception care mess. They even wanted all woman seen as “pre pregnant “. Weather they wanted children or not. To keep there body ready for a healthy pregnancy. Through pushing gynecologist exams.

  19. Hi everyone, I have just had a call from the one of the senior partners at my Drs Surgery who I complained about the other week. They have now investigated my complain and have asked me if I would like to attend a meeting with them for about 15 – 20 minutes this coming Friday where they will go over their investigation with me and offer an explanation and give me the chance to express my views. I am not working on Friday so I have agreed to go along although I made her confirm verbally while I was on the phone that I will not be coerced into having a cervical screening test at any point during the meeting. I will let you know how it goes.

    Jess

    • If they try to push any more screening or say, “but we do recommend you have the screening”, I would threaten legal action if they don’t back off. Their behaviour is no different to harassment.

      Is it possible to ask her to confirm to you via email that they won’t push screening? I suppose you could say you are worried and want written assurances.

      Well done to you for standing your ground though. Sounds as though you have put the frighteners on them!

  20. Hi jess,
    You have the opportunity here to really drive the message home to them, tell them that all the literature on cervical screening points out that it is a CHOICE , and never to make assumptions on behalf of their patients, and once a lady refuses that should be the end of the matter. If they try at this so called meeting to coerce you just get up and leave telling them they haven’t heard a word you’ve said and will be reporting the surgery to the GMC . (Then go and buy yourself a nice pair of shoes ) you’ve earned it.
    Hugs Jules x.

  21. Hi jess, When you attend this meeting tell them that you will be recording the meeting having taken legal advice , ( a little white lie won’t hurt )and that the receptionist involved must be in attendance ( this way she won’t be able to deny it ) and that if you are not satisfied with their explanation, and apology the matter will be referred to the GMC , and if they have a website that you will be putting in a scathing report on their unprofessional behaviour.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Omg. Adawells, that is truly horrifying. We all knew this was going on, and not only in France. This would be a reflection of what is happening ANYWHERE that Ob-Gyns exist.

      Society has to get over thinking doctors are to be trusted.

      Society also has to get over thinking women lie, we’re dumb and we don’t know what is good for us.

      Obviously, putting total trust in doctors is a bad idea. We must promote awareness that women must be cautious when seeking healthcare. We must do our own research and always trust our instincts.

      We also have to stop the smiling, singing, ‘we’re-all-in-this-together, so just get it done for-your-health’ campaigns that promote womens cancer screening.

      Telling women to get pap smears and mammograms/breast exams is just dropping us into the hands of predators who take advantage of their access to us under the umbrella of womens health care.

  22. Hi ladies,
    The screening programme is changing in 2022 , the open Exeter system is being wound down and is to be replaced with a new system which will be designed by NHS digital for a group called the NHS personal demographic service, (pds) for short, at the moment there are 84 data banks they use for the programme this will centralise to one , so hopefully this will cause chaos when it’s brought in and spare a few more women in the confusion. Ps good luck to Jess today.
    Hugs Jules x.

  23. Hi again everyone,
    Well I had the meeting on Friday and all I can say is what a waste of time. I got there and checked in at reception and as soon as I spoke to the receptionist I knew by her voice and tone of voice it was her that called me demanding that I attend. The meeting started late just as I was about to walk out. The senior Dr and the Practice Manager were there and When she introduced herself as Dr **** and I asked her what her first name was I told her I would be addressing her by her first name and she didn’t seem very impressed. I was I full work uniform as I was off to work later that afternoon and suggested that she addresses me as Captain Shire if she wanted to keep it formal.
    She went through my complaint and what had been done but it was basically just paying lip service to it. I interrupted and said “look you are missing the point totally, I have formally opted of cervical screening and I don’t expect to be harassed, least of all by a bloody receptionist. I don’t want letters and phone calls demanding I attend”.
    The practice manager went on to say that it was very important that I attend, I just cut her off as said I wasn’t interested and the meeting wasn’t getting very far. The Dr said but how do I KNOW that there isn’t a cancerous tumour growing inside me. I replied “Easily! I had a full CAA medical recently which involved a full body scan and this would have picked this up without fail” There was a shock silence, and the Dr said I should reconsider. I replied in a louder voice “Look I don’t want this test, and for the benefit of the tape I am now being harassed almost coerced into having this humiliating and degrading test”
    Both of them looked shocked and said that it was best if we end the meeting and I will be hearing from them again in due course with a written reply to my complaint. I left and when I got outside just fell about laughing. The only regret I have is that I didn’t wish them and the rottweiller receptionist a good weekend on my way out. I will let you all know what happens when I get my written response!!

    Jess

    P.S. Jules where did you hear about the open Exeter system coming to an end? If its replacement is rolled out as successfully as the “track and trace” it should be a total disaster.

    • Hi Jess, strewth, yes I thought it might go like that. It’s a complete imbalance of power. I’ve been in meetings with the Police where I assumed they were going to explain the assistance they were going to give me (I have a stalker), and instead I was told to shut up, get counselling and stop asking for help! (Bloody hell, the NSW Police are shit, I’ve been trying to stop my stalker for 4 years now by myself, thank god I’m not clueless when it comes to investigations! I don’t know how other women cope, because the police don’t care about stalking).

      I’m glad you stood up for yourself, you did well with that. It seems they were still assuming you would cave and do as your told, and they didn’t count on you knowing more than they do about this bloody test.

      At least you tried. The fault is entirely theirs if they stilll think their female patients are airheads who should do as they’re told.

    • And this is what the NHS describes as no coercion or pressure. “Anyone is free to opt out of screening at any time without having to give a reason” they say, and this is what really happens. How do you know you don’t have a cancer growing inside of you? What are your odds of this being the case? This doctor needs to give you this information so that you can make an informed choice. As we all know, the smear test is not a test to detect cancer, only abnormal cells so you can be put on the conveyor belt of harm for their financial benefit.

      The whole process is a digusting violation of our human rights, and their attitudes that this is normal, just show how far we have to go.

      I was disappointed to learn that my 24 year old daughter went to our GP recently with an infected toe nail and said she’d had a first smear test while she was there. I was too angry to discuss it with her. I never saw any invitation come through the door, so wondering if it was a case of “While you are here…” My first bowel screening test came through the door yesterday and went straight into the recycling bin. A small act of revenge.

    • Jess you held your corner well!! What your surgery doesn’t seem to realise is they are breaking the law by continuing to harass you and advise screening!

  24. I’ve just been struck off!!!! Just after lunch there the post arrived and there was a recorded delivery envelope. I gave the postie the thumbs up and off he went. It was from my surgery and basically reads that following our meeting last Friday they have decided that its in everyones best interests if I am removed from the list of patients and have sent me a list of nearby surgeries who “might” be able to add me.
    Around 2:30 the phone rang and it was “that” receptionist again asking me if I had recived my letter and if I had any questions. When I said I didn’t she seemed confused and asked me what surgery I would be registering with. I said I wouldn’t be as the private medical insurance I have covers me for up to 12 private GP visits per year either over the phone or face to face so if I did ever need to see a GP I will visit a professional GP through a private clinic and be seen on time and not be harrassed into having a humiliating, degrading, and above all totally pointless cervical screening test. I think my home phone must have gone faulty at this point as the line went dead and I couldn’t hear what she was saying anymore so I put the phone down. There loss is my gain!

    Jess

    • I thought this kind of attitude went out in the 1990’s but really shocked that they have removed you from their list for refusing to accept cervical screening. This is illegal. Everyone has a right to refuse any medical tests and treatment they wish. Can you threaten them with legal action? It is absiolutely appaling the way you have been treated, although if you have alternative healthcare you may not want to go back to that scummy place.

      • Hi Ada, I think the reason for the parting of ways isnt so much that I dropped out of their precious cervical screening program but the way I spoke to them. I certainly wasn’t rude but I had no intention of backing down when I know my rights. A lot of GPs think that their word is law and don’t like it when challenged. I think that they were shocked I turned up for the meeting in my work uniform (I did indeed work on Friday afternoon). All the same I think its pretty sad that one female professional doesn’t want to here the view of another female professional.

      • It is very sad, Jess. You took the trouble to attend the meeting and discuss it with them at their request, but they clearly didn’t want to hear your point of view. They must have lost a good customer and all over intransigence with this silly test. Just hope that they’re desperately below target and that’s the reason for their behaviour and they fail to get their money.

      • Indeed, they should be reported – they must have very low attendance rates if they’re engaging in such disgusting behaviour, so no doubt other women are being subjected to this horrendous bullying.

    • Omg Jess!!! Thats appalling behaviour on their part. Just awful. I think you’re better off without that lot, they don’t like patient automony and clearly expect women to shut up and do as they’re told. They could’nt handle an intelligent woman who knew her stuff!

  25. How many women, particularly young women have they blindsided with these underhanded tactics? Being told to come in for a ‘chat’, and “oh by the way, don’t have sex for 24 hours beforehand”, which pretty much means they fully intend to ‘persuade’ their victims into the very thing that their victims have opted out of. I am in my sixties now and I am at a stage in life where absolutely no one can coerce me in to doing anything I don’t want to do, but when I was a young woman I wasn’t very confident and the power differential between me and them was too much for me to cope with and I was subjected to things that still haunt me.

    Well done Jess for being strong enough to tell them where to go.

  26. Hi ladies, ( especially Jess ).
    Well done ,if all women were as determined as you , the attitude they have would have to change as adawells has pointed out it’s illegal
    for them to dismiss you as a patient for refusing an elective test, and they have just dug themselves into a deeper hole if you were to take the matter further (GMC). Even if nothing comes of it , it might have an effect on any job applications she applies for in the future , a black mark on her cv might just be what she deserves , also if you did follow up with a complaint to the GMC you could then post on their website that she has been reported to them ( and because this is the truth there would not be any comeback) all of their own literature on screening says that if a patient refuses to test that their decision must be respected and that it would be unethical to coerce someone , this bitch sounds like she needs a lesson in respect
    (or a punch in the mouth either would do ) as for open Exeter in 2022 a major shake up of services will see open Exeter, NHS digital and a couple of others are to be merged into one group known as the personal demographics service , one can only hope that this is a total screw up and the screening programme ends up in disarray sparing a few more cervices.
    Hugs Jules x.

  27. Hi all, i’m Jacqueline. First off thank you for posting this blog, as i often questioned doctors, especially gynos. I gone to 3 paps in my lifetime. One when i was a virgin and felt raped and used. Another with a different doctor who didn’t stop when the speculum hurt. Another with a different provider who at the very least prescribed the right birth control, but still didn’t stop even if after i said it hurt and moved because it hurt. She was also very rude and i left the office crying and cried all the way home. vagina hurt for a week. like it bothers me that i was never informed of any of the side effects of the pap. To make matters worse, my last provider reffered me to a colosophy, i said no because i have been a fan of women against stirrups and did not like the fact that a colosophy litterally scrapes the cervix! then they kept sending letters to make an appointment to follow up with another pap smear. like if the speculum bothered me, what makes them think that i will be back for another pap, and yet alone a colosophy! i stood up for them and wrote a letter, in which they then canceled the appointment for this year. Then with another provider, i called and asked for std testing and got a rude person saying “oh blood and urine tests are unreliable, we do cultures instead. i know that they are not unreilable and forgot the number but still. then i ask for a pedriac speculum, and get told oh the doctor decides what speculum to use! Dr. Mengle much? and you know it’s really got me thinking- how many people do actually use apps like nurx to get their birth control because they don’t want their bodies mulitated? How many people would use priority std testing.com to get tested their way? i know i add to the numbers of that!! like even too what i don’t get is if i request other ways- why do they turn people away- i mean they can still make money off of alternative ways.

    • Hi Jacquline, Here in the UK I wouldn’t hesitate to use an on line pharmacy if I needed the pill. Thankfully my partner has been snipped

      • Hi there, yes totally i’m in the us, and as soon as i decided to not go to the ob/gyn anymore, i was on the bandwagon to Nurx, which is an online pharmacy. no wait to get my pills either. it is better. only downside (in a sense) is that it cost 465 for 3 months supply should insurance not cover it. But honestly, i don’t mind because i’d rather protect my body and have things done my way without needing to expose myself. goes for both virgins and non-virgins alike. tho insurance plans- they stink to be honest- like i’m on a medicaid thing and the people won’t cover it because a doctor you see have to write the prescription… smh- what if one doesnt want to go because of the not reliable results?

      • Thats a lot of money for a 3 month supply, Jacqueline. Here in Oz it would cost about $120.00 – $180.00.

        But I agree, its worth the money to avoid being raped with a forced pap smear or pelvic exam.

  28. Hi ladies,
    Figures released today on the ITV news website,
    In 2019/20 4.63 million invites were sent out in 2020/21
    4.59 million invites were sent out a decrease of 1% .
    In 2019/20 3.2 million women tested .
    In 2020/21 3.03 million women tested a decrease of 5.3 % these figures cover up to 31 March this year.
    The age group 25-49 dropped from 70.2 % to 68%.
    The age group 50-64 dropped
    from 76.1 % to 74.7.
    Jo’s expressed concern at the Kensington and Chelsea areas where only 45.8% attended .
    In addition colposcopy procedure’s were down from
    191,563 in 2019/20.
    To 176,561 in 2020/21.
    To be totally honest I thought the figures would be much lower but at leased they are going in the right direction, and with the new variant of COVID flying about this should only add to the problem for them for next years figures .
    Hugs Jules x.

      • And the usual hysterical comments about how ‘I would be dead if I hadn’t had mine and my children would be motherless’ and nasty uninformed women telling those speaking about how awful the tests can be to ‘get a grip and suck it up’. That never seems to change. For heaven’s sake, why don’t they just offer self-sampling. Wouldn’t completely resolve all of the issues and still results in false positives and a potentially traumatic test if HPV positive, but at least it might stop the conversation constantly revolving around ‘stupid’ women who don’t want to submit to a degrading ‘routine’ test.

    • I spotted this on twitter about smear tests recently, posted by a GP:

      “we’re as up to date as we can be: many declining to come/signing disclaimers/never responding to multiple invites”

      Good to know those disclaimer forms are being used!

      • Oh it wasn’t that awful, patronising GP with the red hair who often appears on morning TV was it? I saw her on twitter earlier this week scaremongering about screening and validating all of the ‘it saved my life’ fanatics who were vociferously agreeing with her. I’ve seen her be challenged about her one-sided promotion of it before on twitter and she claimed she ‘always tells women about the risks vs benefits but that the benefits vastly outweigh the risks’. Still not respecting the patient’s autonomy, is it?!

      • No, it wasn’t that dreadful woman. Sarah somebody?? It was a group of GPs having a discussion on twitter. A patient was chipping in with the usual rubbish saying it was a painless procedure, and GP was at least decent enough to point out that for many people it was painful and a reason some stayed away. Another commented that they’d probably never get these people back onboard again. Good to see that they knew the game was up.

        https://www.qlocal.co.uk/uk/news_list/Decrease_in_number_of_people_having_cervical_screening_tests_in_20_21__new_statistics-55053926.htm

      • It’s here. If you have twitter, I hope you can read the thread.

      • This isn’t the “awful red haired GP is it” ? This video stops abruptly and the second part was never shown:

      • Jess – no that’s not her, but I would say this is also awful given that she gives no balance to her presentation characterises all cell changes as pre-cancerous. Pretty standard though. I suppose why would you promote informed consent and bodily autonomy when you get a nice financial incentive for each test. I think the woman is called something like Sarah Javid. There was a thread about cervical screening a while ago where people were talking about the risks and lack of informed consent because some woman who runs a beauty salon was tweeting all her clients about how the absolutely must go. Said woman then invoked this doctor to back her up in the conversation and she retweeted one of them who was providing perfectly valid info about the unreliability of the test, financial incentives etc, characterised them as a lunatic and allowed them all to be called tinfoil hat wearers.

  29. Dr. Phillipa Kaye is an ‘ambassador’ for Jo’s Trust, so the lack of balanced information is only to be expected. I’m pretty sure it was her who caused outrage on twitter a few years ago by making a little ‘festive’ joke, posting a picture of a nutcracker and comparing it to a speculum. She took it down pretty quickly when people started complaining but it says a lot about her mindset that she ever thought it was funny.

  30. https://patient.info/authors/dr-sarah-jarvis-mbe

    Do you mean Sarah Jarvis? She’s on the patient websites telling people how to live their lives. I remember she once did a comment on patient.co.uk telling people to follow the queens example, and if they adopted her good habits they wouldn’t get so much ill health. Noticed she’s got an MBE now. If I had Liz’s billions and several stately homes to live in with an army of servants, and no need to work, I think it would improve my health no end.

    • Yes that’s her. I find her insufferably patronising. And clearly very privileged and out of touch from what you’ve just said!

    • Yikes, I’ve read her profile. It’s all about how she strives to make medicine a partnership between the GP and patient and to empower the patient to take control of their own health. Scary that she believes that about herself! That’s the last thing I would have said about her from what I’ve seen. She comes across as really condescending and paternalistic.

  31. Hi ladies,
    This Sarah Jarvis sounds like a right one , fortunately I haven’t come across her ,it sounds like she just spouts out the same well rehearsed and practiced replies and lies all the others do, they must give them lessons in this at med school , she talks of informed decision making, in reality how many here have ever had that type of conversation with their dr . They have got what is known as a god complex, which leads to their belief of self importance, which in turn fuels their ridiculous egos and self righteousness and self opinionated views , which leaves very little space for listening to us insignificant people who should be at the very heart of their involvement. I have nothing but mistrust and contempt for most of them and until their attitude changes mine won’t either, and from the number of them frequenting the court system with everything from sexual misconduct to murder( dr Harold shipman ) my trust is the last thing I would place in their hands, to me my safety is paramount so it’s probably best to avoid them and their constant recommendations .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules, the “God complex” is known as Hubris syndrome. Google it as it makes interesting reading, another example of this was Tony Blair’s behaviour over the second gulf war. As a professional female who has assertiveness training as part of my job I love being able to deal with people like this. While I try not to engage in conversation when usually a firm NO is all that is required sometimes I just cant help contradicting their arguments. The are usually a mixture of both shock/anger/surprise that anyone has ever dared to stand up to them.

      • So called professional medical personnel like her… So long as you suck up every word said as if candy, so long as you take whatever crap they say as informed consent, so long as they walk into the room and find you naked and waiting, well that means you’re a good patient.
        But if you ask questions, complain about pain, mandate that your husband or boyfriend accompany you and furthermore have that person look over the provider’s shoulder at your gaping vagina, or if you refuse to play along with the game, well you’re barely fit to be unsupervised in society.
        We all know these individuals avoid like plague the same painful stupidity they force on us.
        They are control freaks. They hate the mere thought of being a helpless patient. Their day is coming. At some point they will be forced out of their own comfort zones.
        Try this. Offer to use the Delphi Screener instead of pap scrape.
        When they question you saying “scrape” tell them you’re aware that wooden spatula scrapes the cervix until it bleeds. Follow that with the official pap efficacy of 50%.
        Then take out a coin. Flip it repeatedly while saying “heads negative tails positive”.

    • Exactly. My ‘discussions’ with my GP around cervical screening involved the phrases ‘just stop being silly and get it done’ and ‘people who can have sex can have cervical screening, it’s nothing’ (shudder at the conflation of sexual activity and a medical procedure!). Hardly promoting informed decision-making based on a full appraisal of the risks and benefits taking into account my own personal circumstances! And, no declaration of the conflict of interest caused by financial incentives. For those reasons, and following a number of other appalling experiences with medical professionals, I feel exactly the same as you Jules. Unless I’m gravely ill, I completely avoid them to minimise the risk of harm.

      • “Stop being silly and get it done” that is highly professional behaviour (NOT) I would have complained about their condescending attitude. Was it a male GP??

      • No, it was a woman. Actually, I had the same conversation with multiple female GPs, always when I was there for something entirely unrelated. I even avoided medical care for other things that were causing me a lot of trouble, as I dreaded the ‘Your smear is due’ conversation and the ensuing pressure and coercion.. I find that women are just as bad in these conversations though. I would absolutely complain now, but as a younger woman who was desperately trying to avoid the test due to past trauma (now I avoid it mostly because of what I know about false positives etc), I always had a bit of a freeze response in those conversations and just sat there. It was really awful though because I was convinced I was going to develop and die from cervical cancer for a couple of years due to their scaremongering. It used to keep me awake at night, especially when I had so many friends being diagnosed with ‘pre-cancerous cells’. I wish I had known more about the actual risk, it would have saved me a lot of anguish!

      • Why not equate/conflate sexual activity with a speculum exam? Both involve penetrating the vagina. Both can be done with or without informed consent. With both, there are risks involving what other vaginas have been penetrated with the same penis/non-sterile speculum. Penetrating a vagina with anything without consent, using force or coercion is traumatic, and are legally related.

      • The notion that people who had sex can get this done is absolutely absurd! Sure, i mean it wouldn’t hurt to get tested for STDS once having sex, however- that should be an informed decision. Also a cervical screening isn’t the same as sex because of the sole fact that you consent to the sex and well are lubricated well if you participate in foreplay.
        I’m glad i found blogs/ sites like these who promote informed consent.

  32. Hi ladies,
    I’m afraid that they are taught that all woman are idiots, and to have that “dr knows best attitude ”.unfortunately for them the internet is a marvellous source of information and sites such as this one must prove to be a thorn in their side , the mistake they are making is not all women are stupid ,some have the presence of mind to question the norm and can unravel the science and facts behind medical terminology , figures and misleading facts, they absolutely love to use the fact that cervical cancer is the forth biggest killer of women , when everyone here knows that 88% of this cancer happens in third world countries, countries that have very poor sanitary and hygiene conditions where rape , famine , disease, hiv ,aids , and malnutrition all contribute to the weakening of the immune system. But they somehow fail to include this (very convenient)
    Until they give accurate , factual and unbiased information they can go Fock themselves.
    Hugs jules x.

  33. I’ve had aggravation from both men and women medics over smears. At my last smear 21 years ago, the female nurse told me that all women have the smear test and she herself has smear tests! I finally shut down the male doctor who gave me grief after I opted out by keeping repeating I opted out and signed a disclaimer over and over! They’ve given up now thankfully

    • Beth – I was referring to the appropriacy of a conflation of sexual activity with smear tests in a consultation setting, in the vein of ‘if you can have sex, you can do this’. I can think of multiple examples why this is not appropriate, not least the idea that if you can have sex with someone with whom you feel safe and comfortable, you should be able to spread your legs for a metal instrument wielded by a random stranger. And, how triggering such a conflation can be for survivors of sexual violence, which no one should feel obliged to disclose during a GP appointment to protect themselves from further coercion and abuse. Outside of that context, I personally would compare non-consensual vaginal exams, including those which are non consensual due to lack of informed consent, to sexual assault but that wasn’t what I was referring to. I was also speaking from my own experience as a young woman with previous trauma who went through a lot to be able to have sex being told that if I can do that then I should just be able to suck up an invasive and potentially traumatic medical examination that I didn’t even want. I’m well aware of how traumatic both of the situations you reference are from personal experience.

      • As i said before, the notion that one can spread your legs open for an forced instrument up your vagina just because one had sex is absurd! my gyno also said it and she came from a practice! luckily don’t go to her anymore but like jeez. Also personally speaking, even tho no one (except people like the ones here) believes that gyncology is a field that makes one feel violated, it can make one feel like a sexually assaulted survivor, because we were in fact sexually assaulted through power and a person in a white coat in the name of science or even abuse. i know i felt that way, and my first one was when i was a virgin! It is something that one doesn’t want to be honest, and if you don’t want it, it can turn people away, also due to the nature of the exam it can turn people away. i really hope to see the numbers go down worldwide.

      • I was speaking as a survivor of sexual child abuse as well as medical abuse – even outside of gyn exams.

        You’re right; it’s not at all the same thing as having loving, consensual sex. It’s more like, “If you could get through assorted rapes with fingers or instrumentation, you should be able to get through a gyn exam.” Yeah, I “got through” it, and years of therapy have told me that I don’t or I mustn’t and shouldn’t have to put up with that to get my basic needs met. There isn’t much difference between “Spread your legs, and this is why we feed you and give you a place to live.” and “Submit to a gyn exam or we won’t treat your diabetes.” There isn’t much difference between (a particularly disturbed abuser I had in my childhood) telling me, “I have to do this to get the demons out of you.” and telling me “I have to do this to make sure you don’t die of cervical cancer.” I’m an unbeliever, so to say the least I consider the demons story kind of unlikely. Meanwhile, I find there is roughly a 1:40,000 chance that I’ll die of CC, and about half of them in the US were “up to date” on their pap smears at the time of their diagnosis.

        The way I could have sex or a gyn exam when young was to mostly leave my body…. transfer “me” to the curtains, clock, a light fixture or something in the room. That way, they weren’t doing it to “me”, but using my body. It took a lot of therapy to “be there” with someone while making love. I’m sure I could easily go back to the dissociating, but I didn’t spend years of therapy and associated costs and work learning NOT to do it just so I would re-learn to do it!

        Moreover, I’m not sure I have another rape-recovery in me.

    • It sounds like we are coming from very similar perspectives and experiences and I’m extremely sorry to hear about what you have been though. I’m glad you were able to find a therapist who was on the same page as you and supportive. I’ve come across many therapists claiming to be well versed in trauma, whose focus when it comes to things like screening is that they can offer support to allow women to attend so as not to let their abuser continue to have power over them and for it to be an ’empowering experience’ – a horrible, potentially retraumatising and even abusive take in my personal opinion. I came across one specialist sexual trauma therapist online who acknowledged how traumatic screening can be for survivors but ‘given the fact it can be life-saving it’s well worth having done’. She then goes on to explain how she can support women to work up to it in her sessions (something I am not against if this is the client’s wish born of a truly informed decision). Again, though, where is the respect for informed consent, bodily autonomy and any real understanding of trauma? It beggars belief really.

      • Gem – exactly.
        “… well worth having done” – it’s the individual woman’s decision, thanks!

  34. Hi Beth kz,
    I didn’t know of the abuse that you suffered, and I’m so very sorry that it happened to you , to the extent that it’s been playing on my mind all day, I wish that I could go back in time and give you a hug and some comfort and stopped you’re pain, the scum that abuse children deserve nothing but the most severe punishment until the day they die , I hope you have now found a better place in your life with security and peace and not let this terrible ordeal ruin the rest of it , remember you are in my heart and mind , you are not alone anymore , people do care .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Thanks, Jules. I’ve mostly gotten beyond the childhood abuse issues. I can lay the blame squarely on people who did it and people who blatantly ignored the problem. They are dead or completely out of my life.

      The therapy I got on it was that all choices are mine, that NOBODY has a right to do things to my body which I am uncomfortable with. There has been no therapist who has aided me in refusing gyn exams, AND MAKING IT STICK. I did have a no-cost consultation with an attorney who was far more helpful in that area. If I let them know I am uncomfortable and demand they STOP, the person is committing a crime. Sadly, many physicians and nurses don’t seem to get what the therapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists are pointing out. I’ve come to learn that the law is on the side of refusing is refusing, lack of informed consent is a crime, coercion or fraud to get something that appears to be consent is really acquiescence – making it still a crime. There are documentation problems with it. Perhaps by the time I reach the end of my life, I might have figured out how to ensure a “no” is a “no” in the medical environment – which seems to view itself as having different rules than the rest of society.

    • Jess that would be so good but, sadly, they’ll probably just throw more money at “awareness “ and “overcoming barriers “ to bully more of us into getting it…
      A restful peaceful break to everyone!

    • Annette and Jules, thank you and likewise, a peaceful restful holidays to you and all the other amazing women on this brilliant site! X 😸

  35. Hi everybody,

    I hope you all had a good xmas and new year. Saw a couple of interesting things recently. I looks like in Wales are moving from 3 years between screening to 5 years and people are protesting against it:

    https://www.change.org/p/public-health-wales-keep-cervical-screening-to-3-years-and-not-extended-to-5-years?recruiter=false&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=8ff88840-6de9-11ec-b157-f9e169ad9615&utm_content=mit-31922582-10%3Av2

    Needless to say I wont be signing it!

    On a more personal note after being struck off last year yesterday I started looking for a new GP. I cant register with my partners practice as since he registered they have changed their boundries and I am now half a mile outside of their catchment area. The only other practice that I can register with seems to be a small local village practice 3 miles away to register I had to print the forms off and filled them in and I need to drop them into reception. There is a box asking for the date of my last cervical smear. Do I leave it blank, or write never had one, or write that I have opted out? Decisions decisions!

    Jess

    • I would make it clear on the registration form that you have opted out and the matter is now closed.

      Thanks for the link. What a pathetic petition, but just shows how duped and brainwashed women are under this scheme. There are already about 90,000 signatures, but even if it gets over the 100,000 required to be debated, it will go the same way as all the others and they will be told that the new HPV testing is more accurate and doesn’t need such frequent testing. Glad you posted the link. I’d heard people on twitter talking about screening being lengthened to every 5 years but couldn’t find anything about it on PHE website. Scotland already has 5 yearly intervals and there was a bit of an uproar about it, but it slipped through without too many noticing. It is obviously Wales’s turn to reduce screening. England will be next, but I bet there will be an even bigger uproar then. It is all their own fault. After decades of lies, lies, lies they now have to undo all that brainwashing that has been so essential to their screening programme.

    • Hi Jess,

      Put ‘opted out’. You could also put ‘informed disenter’ next to it as well.

      Or leave it blank and let them call you.

      If they do call, you’ll be able to gauge what they’re like. Wether they go berserk about it or they just shrug and say that’s fine, your choice.

      Good luck!

    • “Women are entitled to a smear every 3 years”! Really? Maybe they are, they are also entitled to decline a smear!! Let us know what happens Jess!!

      • Yeah, this is annoying too- in the US, at least the ones i’ve been to still follow the every year pap smear schedule. Makes me think if they are aware of the new guidelines but choose not to follow it, but then gets a patient that may want to follow the 3-5 year schedule. No more paps for me, but like i’ll all for getting it when you want to, or should you feel you need one. it’s just sad that doctors decline a patient just because their ideals are different than what the office wants one to do.

  36. Hi ladies,
    It’s great to hear from you all again , I’ve missed you all.
    That’s a good point adawells made about the reaction from the uneducated ,with 90,000 signature’s, it shows that we still have a long way to go. The women’s health brigade have made a rod for their own back with decades of brainwashing and installing the fear of cancer into anyone who would listen , and now they are making changes what the fook did they expect to happen, they are falling victim to their own bullshit, and it serves them fooking right.
    Hugs to all Jules x.

    • The number of otherwise very balanced, critically thinking and highly intelligent women sharing that petition in hysteria that I’ve seen on my personal social media is truly astounding. “As if it isn’t bad enough that the age limit has been reduced at the loss of countless lives. It’s all just a money saving exercise” “I know, it’s just crazy, the number of lives this will cost. I’m so scared for my daughters”. I genuinely feel sorry for them, the level of fear they have, but I know there is absolutely no point in trying to educate them as I’ll be seen as some kind of extremist conspiracy theorist and it will just turn nasty. Women are irrevocably wedded to their screenings and as long as they have GPs lecturing them and putting the fear of god into them for incentive payments, pink charities scaremongering and rogue celebrities and random charities set up by individuals spreading complete misinformation, I can’t see it changing anytime soon.

      • In a sad and horrible way the programme is a victim of its own “success!” First women were bemused that screening was paused during the lockdown after being told you risk your life by delaying through embarrassment for years, and now through the screening intervals increasing! And it’s not sinking in is it which is even scarier!
        My daughter is in Wales, she has received An “invitation “ and a reminder for a smear, she has decided she is not going to screen at this point. So far they’ve not called her or anything about it

  37. Just seen, and now comments are closed, 2 pieces in the daily fail about smears, one saying older women would be more likely to go for a smear if it was a swab they did themselves or a doctor doing a swab without the speculum and it said 31% got screened and how in a few years swabbing could become the norm!! How much longer will they delay rolling out a better test?! Actually don’t answer that lol…..

  38. Love your cervix indeed! Keep it as far away as possible from the cervical screening programme, in any country!!

  39. I’m normally a huge fan of the tv show, Call the Midwife, but even that’s jumped on the smear bandwagon this week, when one of the nuns takes a seat off a woman who wants to start a family, but the results are worrying so obviously the message is get your smears ladies! And I won’t be watching this episode! I’ll pass thanks

  40. Ada good point! I think this episode is more 1960 is but still the cervical screening programme only really took off in the 80’s ?!

    • I think it was in 1989 that the programme was started. I haven’t watched the series on TV, but the books were excellent and I really enjoyed reading them.

    • It’s amazing how much damage this test has done to womankind in such a short period of time. It’s only been around for what, 40 years? How many women have been traumatized, medically coerced, shamed and forced in that time?

      • My bad, I forgot to mention all the subsequent cutting, butchering, cauterizing, and organ removal.

  41. Yet another article about smears in the daily fail, an aspiring model who died of cervical cancer one day after diagnosis, because she was basically fobbed off and not given an internal exam until ages after complaining of symptoms! Must be a slow news week, or else they are waking up to the fact less of us are going to smears and are applying tactics…..

    • Again, they’re missing diagnostic tests with screening tests. If she’s complaining of symptoms of CC, that is a reason to do a diagnostic test for CC (or other cancers). Pap smears are screening tests.

      If she died one day after diagnosis, they did no one any favors by even doing the diagnosis if she was that far gone and close to death. At that point, palliative care is about as good as it gets.

      It sounds like it’s another case of medical people ignoring a woman’s complaints. Or, it could be flat-out BS.

      • I saw that. Poor young woman, it’s so tragic. But yes, it sounds like yet another case of symptomatic women not being taken seriously by medical professionals and suffering the consequences in the worst possible way. And, yet another case of the conflation between screening for ‘pre-cancer’ and diagnostic testing, misinformation and scaremongering. All fuel for the ‘smear on demand at any age’ brigade.

      • It’s extremely sad but the comments were dim in the extreme.

        She had a smear that was clear in 2017 and was dead just three years later and that doesn’t ring any alarm bells?!

        It sounds as though she had a very aggressive cancer that developed very quickly. Sounds like a classic adenocarcinoma.

        The GPs were wrong to not investigate the possibility of cervical cancer but imho, this also shows the danger of relying on smears.

        However, even if the GP had referred her sooner, I don’t think it would have made a difference to the eventual outcome, as sad as that was. It sounds as though she had a rare and very aggressive cancer.

        The lack of knowledge displayed by women in the comments is shocking.

  42. I agree Apocalyptic, but I think any alarm bells that are rung will be from women wanting to have a screening every year because they are afraid of being struck down in the three year interval. The lack of knowledge is extremely shocking – even among extremely educated women and among healthcare professionals. Just the other week, I saw a nurse who provides screening talking on twitter about how self-sampling won’t work because women won’t be able to take an adequate sample of cervical cells. And, all of the women in my life believe that the screening age should be lowered and it should be offered every year because cc is so common and because cells can become cancerous ‘overnight’. Nothing is being done to disabuse these women of this misinformation. I’ve also just come across this horrific and very recent document from the NHS all about increasing uptake, including by offering screening ‘opportunistically’, harassing women on the phone and encouraging women who consider themselves to never have been sexually active to take up the invitation. In the last scenario, apparently women don’t fully understand the issues around skin to skin contact in different types of sexual encounters and HPV so the decision should just be made for them that they should be encouraged to comply without any kind of nuanced discussion to promote informed consent. https://www.sussexccgs.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Screening-Quick-wins-and-Cancer-Screening-Insights-for-PCNs-Feb-21.pdf

  43. Patients can only be removed from screening after a discussion with a clinician… really? PHE made clear this is not the case and no reason needs to be given! I actually stopped reading it there, it’s scary!

  44. Hi ladies,
    I’ve just read Gems post about how to increase the uptake, and found it to be quite sickening. What’s it called again when you coerce and harass somebody into compliance where their vagina is penetrated by fingers , tongue, penis or objects, oh yes RAPE , one day these people will burn in hell ( the sooner the better) it’s getting increasingly harder to curtail my contempt for these abusers. One day there will be time when I come face to face with one of these people and if so they had better hope I haven’t had a drink or two because retribution will be the order of the day.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I saw that Gem’s post and read it the link with both horror and my sarcastic humour. Interesting that it for people in Surrey and Sussex. I live in Sussex but my new surgery is in Surrey and the old in Sussex. Did anyone see call the midwife last night? It was a very bad case of subliminal bias and persuasions. I am sure I read in the book 30 years of pap rape that back then only SIMS speculums were available so it would have been horrendous. I was so angry I was shouting at the telly much to my husbands amusement who said “calm down its only a TV show”, my retort was “yes and I am only a freedom fighter for the rights of the individual”.

  45. Jess I couldn’t face call the midwife!! Doesn’t sound like I missed much! The few smears I had were taken with the old metal speculum, it was bloody agony! The plastic ones must have been introduced after 2000, when my last smear was
    I’m following the debate about cutting back lateral flow screening tests, an oncologist has called mass screening “national self harm”! Hmmm, a bit like having healthy cervix chopped off then?! I personally think smears and mammograms cause so much MORE harm

    • We watched 1st year. While we liked the characters the subject matter was another thing.
      No doubt it was being used as indirect propaganda.
      We won’t watch a second of it now.
      Medical dogooderism tv.
      Like a medical Brady Bunch.
      F*** that!

  46. Hello Ladies, It looks like the hysteria over the move to make cervical screening every 5 years in Wales had some sort of effect as its being debated in the Welsh Senned:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59944508

    Interesting that the recommendation to move to 5 yearly screens came from the UK national screening comittee, maybe there are plans to move humiliation errr I mean screening to 5 years in the UK too. Que more hysteria!

    Jess

    • Hopefully, someone will produce the scientific evidence that has been used to make the decision and explain the risks vs benefits issue. Of course, that won’t stop the petitions being circulated endlessly and the hysteria in the future, which will be ongoing. I think it’s part of the initiation into the screening cult mentality to be honest and it’s frustrating that another thing has now been added into the mix. It’ll be like with the age limit, which has already been debated. I see so many women freaking out about that all the time, starting up endless petitions and men have jumped on the bandwagon too. An entire local football club where I live was smearing their faces with lipstick, including children, because ‘cancer doesn’t have an age limit’. I know I’ve said this before, but I feel so sorry that people are living with such a disproportionate fear of being struck down by cc. I know how it is because I was one of them and it kept me awake at night before I became properly informed. But, I’ve learned the hard way that people simply cannot be swayed in their opinion. I do understand in a way, because they’re being told by medical professionals that it’s something they have to do to protect themselves and being given the impression it’s a ‘no brainer’. And, influenced by public health drives and pink charities that it’s just something to put on your ‘to do list’ like getting your nails done and that you’re stupid, immature and irresponsible if you choose not to. I wonder how many people would still want to get their nails done if it emerged that there would be a risk of having their finger amputated down to the knuckle! Ridiculous analogy and not entirely comparable I know, due to the emotional impact of cancer, but it’s really frustrating how so few people are open to the true facts and promoting informed choice.

      • I agree Gem. I was talking to a lady at work over the Xmas period who is now in her mid 40s and got called for her first cervical smear aged 18 just after going on the pill. She had “abnormal cells” and got called in for a colposcopy where she was told that the changes were very small and would probably clear up on their own but it was a good idea to burn them off there and then. This left her traumatised and has not been back since despite numerous demands that she attends

  47. Hello! I’m hoping for a bit of advice, if possible. I’ve read lots of comments & I think I’m in the right place! I’m 50, and haven’t had a smear test for many years, since I was in my early 30’s. I lived for several years in the US & had them every year there, I think. When I moved back to the UK, I just…..didn’t bother. I put it off, thinking oh I’ll go after Christmas, or after my summer holiday….of course I didn’t. I haven’t really ever been pressured into having one here in Scotland, to be fair. So it started to occur to me that maybe I should have one, you know, getting older & whatnot & losing my Dad suddenly, made me start to (over)think my health. The thing is I’m now terrified that because I’ve left it so long…..well, you know where the brain goes!! Anyway, I’ve been trying to educate myself, and it’s difficult to get balanced info. All over social media are millions of women bullying me into having regular smears, and insisting I sign petitions etc. The strange part is, I’ve read that I have a 1 in 142 chance of getting this cancer, in my lifetime, I think. But….I have a 1 in 8 chance of getting breast cancer, and a 1 in 23 chance of colon cancer! WHERE are the slews of bullies yelling at me to get my mammogram, or to do my at-home bowel screening?? Are those not preventative screenings too?? Am I missing something here?? I was so upset at the end of last year about it, I panicked & got myself put back on the recall list & I’ll be invited for screening this year. I really don’t know what to do – so much of the rhetoric around this aggravates me – but I’m the mother of a 25 yr old autistic girl, who still lives at home with us & needs additional support. So am I being reckless & selfish?? I hope this isn’t too much of a ramble…I’d appreciate any replies. Thank you!

    • Tell them you want nothing to do with pap scrape that’s only 50% accurate. Is a coin good enough?
      Do the Delphi Screener only.
      It’s passive and best yet done at home.

    • Welcome KZ! No one here will tell you to screen or not… you seem to have a very good grip already on your stats, it’s a 0.65% lifetime risk of cervical cancer, I think you said 1 in 143, .
      All I can say is personally I had my last smear in 2000 when my daughter was just 5, she’s now 25 like your girl. I can quite honestly say I never once worried about dying of cervical cancer and leaving her motherless! I found this amazing site too, and read up about it all. You’re right, we aren’t yelled at about mammograms or bowel screening, but hey men are “invited “ for bowel screening too, they aren’t made to feel like naughty kids if they don’t screen! Please keep in touch , let us know what you decide

    • Hi KZ – you’re absolutely not being reckless and selfish, though that’s what the common narrative on this screening would have you believe. To the contrary you’re smart to think about it critically. For reassurance that your instincts are spot-on, please check out the References & Education section on this website for objective information from reputable sources instead of the emotional hysteria you would get from other women on the web. As for mammograms, I don’t know how long it’s been since you lived in the US but there is indeed a lot of bullying to have them too as well as colon cancer screening to some extent. Our healthcare here is for-profit and cancer screenings are a goldmine.

    • Hey Kat! Believe me, it’s just refreshing to read something other than the usual tirades! I can’t even talk to my close friends about it – they all just dutifully go along, and I feel like they’d be appalled so I keep it to myself. I expect there are many more like me who just don’t talk about it for fear of being bullied or scorned. I wish more people would be open to actually doing a bit of research & question what they are basically ‘told’ to do, maybe one day…..thanks for your reply x

      • Hi KZ,
        Screening has many risks as well as benefits and it’s up to the patient to weigh up the pros and cons and decide what’s best for them. Unfortunately the ‘information’ these screening programmes provide is designed to increase take-up, not ensure informed choice, and are thus little more than sales brochures.
        The ‘smear’ is an outdated and inaccurate test for an uncommon disease, so in order for this expensive and resource hungry programme to be considered worthwhile they need to screen huge numbers of women.
        Considering how invasive the procedure is, and many women are naturally reluctant to undergo the ‘test’, the powers-that-be have used every dirty trick in the book to convince us to attend.
        GP’s and their minions are constantly chasing non-attenders because they receive incentive payments for smears and also earn brownie points for hitting targets. Of course few patients know about this and come to the conclusion that the test must really be VITALLY IMPORTANT if these HCP’s spend so much effort persuading you to get yer knickers off.

        If women are paranoid about this disease, it’s due to the scaremongering, lack of factual information, and the inaccurate nature of the test itself. ‘Abnormal’ cell changes are incredibly common, while cervical cancer is not. But because there is no way to predict which abnormalities are a genuine threat and which are harmless, thousands undergo ‘just in case’ surgery, and many believe they were saved when they were overtreated.
        Over the years hundreds of thousands – if not millions – of healthy women have had a ‘scare’ or undergone ‘preventative’ treatment, perpetuating the lie that we’d all be dropping like flies without the pap test.

        One more thing. When there’s hysteria being whipped up by the authorities and the obnoxious pink charities, it’s a desperate attempt to tackle attendance rates which have fallen way below the minimum threshold.
        You see, all the screening programmes have an ‘ideal’ attendance percentage and a minimum rate. The DOH judges the ‘success’ of the programmes solely on whether they’re reached these upper targets. Bowel screening, with an upper threshold of only 60%, is doing ok. Breast screening has recently fallen just below the minimum 70% target, but they can blame that on the pandemic. Cervical screening has a lower threshold of 75% and fell below that a long time ago – so even though the attendance rate is higher than the other two, it’s deemed to be the worst performing of the three purely because it’s failed to hit its targets.

        Hope I didn’t scramble your brain there!
        Btw I haven’t had a test for over 20 years, and opted out of the programme last year.

      • Hi kz
        So pleased that you’ve managed to find your way here, this site has been the saviour of many and hopefully yours too,I’ve been a victim in the past of this scandalous test , but have found reassurance , knowledge and friendship . Please read up on some of the scientific facts that the amazing women on this site have uncovered , and you’ll see that it’s more likely that you will have more chance of harm off an alien wearing a sombrero riding a motorcycle.
        Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi KZ, welcome!

      If it helps, I’ve never had a pap smear and I’m 47. My partner and I were virgins when we met. Long ago I started researching what pap smears and cervical cancer was all about (I’m a biologist) after being abused and pushed around by a female obgyn.

      I was appalled at how women are abused with a test looking for a rare cancer using an inaccurate test. I decided not to screen unless I have symptoms.

      The hysteria over pap smears and mammograms really shocked me. I was also appalled by the way doctors consider women ‘well and cancer free’ if they pass a mammo and pap. Doctors only see us as a pair of boobs and a cervix. It’s so ridiculous. My family has a history of heart problems as they age, yet no doctor has ever asked me about my heart. It’s so stupid.

      My advice – take in all the facts about cervical cancer and breast cancer, and decide for yourself what path is best for you.

      I’ve had one mammogram when one of my nipples started to turn inside out (it was nothing) but I will NOT be doing regular mammograms as I age either. They have repeatedly been shown to miss cancers and cause more trouble than they are worth.

      Good luck!

      • Ladies – thank you all SO much for your incredibly helpful responses. I’ve read them all about 10 times each 🙂 Will read the education section next. I feel so much better knowing I’m not alone in this! X

    • KZ – not reckless and selfish at all.
      Years ago, when my GP trauma was fresh (I got harrassed every single time I went to this one GP), there was a market research study which paid $100 AUD (Australia, where I live), and it was on the campaign for pap smears.

      I flat out disagreed with every one of the marketing signages/posters, saying that I’d never ever screen. For market research purposes, they had to ask why.
      One of them said: Do it for your family.
      The guilt-tripping etc made me so ill. I was indeed there for the money as I was a poor student, but my decision was also based on speaking out. However, that said, at 22 years of age, I was not as articulate then.
      There were other women who said the same, along the lines of: Wtf does this have to do with my family? I’m not selfish for thinking of myself.

      Because, trust me, us Asian women have had a tonne of guilty familial garbage going on.

  48. Jess that’s so sad, your lady was probably one of the ladies whose cervix was maturing, if she’d had a follow up later after no treatment she’d probably of been normal, had she not had a test til 25, that would probably of been fine but hey….!let’s scrape burn and cut away!

  49. I am 60 years old stopped going for paps smears in my early 30’s, my question is… I went thru menopause when I was 50 lost my husband when I was 55,I only had 2 sex partners in my life not currently sexualy active with anyone, today I noticed I had light spotting is this normal? I dont want to call or visit a gyn Dr, I dont trust any of them, they will use there cancer scare tactics.
    And what I read on the internet says bleeding after menopause could be a sign of cervical cancer, there should be no bleeding or spotting after menopause. Im scared 😦

    • Hi Kathleen,

      Sorry to be blunt, but, may I ask what colour the spotting is? Fresh (bright red), dark red or brown (old)? Have you done anything that may have caused a leakage (ie. intercourse? I ride horses, when I do a lot of sitting trot, I can get spotting between periods).

      Is there any cramps with the spotting?

      Do you still have a uterus and cervix? (Hysterectomy?). Do you have any history of fibroids? A lot of them? Big ones?

      If the spotting has only happened once, its probably nothing.

      Spotting happening repeatedly? You might like to consider a smear with a doctor you feel comfortable with, and who won’t force you into doing anything you don’t feel comfortable with – but its not easy finding a nice doctor who isn’t obsessed with constant smears!

      You can also get a uterine ultrasound to see whats in there (transvaginal or abdominal).

      A blood test to check your hormones and confirm the levels (you’re definitely in menopause) would be good.

      If you decide to get a smear, and you don’t want to be on the list to be harassed every year for one by the doctor, MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR. Tell them its a once only deal for the symptom you have, so hands off! 😉

      Guys, any other suggestions to help Kathleen?

      Ozphoenx 🙂

      • A pap scrape won’t prove a thing.
        Go with internal and external ultrasound. It can measure your endometrial lining. Although it cannot biopsy you’ll know of you should be concerned.

    • Sorry, forgot to add – in America, they will want you to do an endometrial biopsy. In other places, its rarely done.

      Insist on a blood test and maybe an abdominal ultrasound FIRST!

      The biopsy will be to check what your uterus lining is doing, and if there are any suspicious cells (endometrial cancer). But do the simple, easy stuff first, and you may find your answer there.

      If you agree to an endometrial biopsy, INSIST on being knocked out in day surgery. Do not listen (or agree with) your doctor saying its a simple, in-office procedure, because that is utter horseshit. It’s very painful and traumatising to be awake for that. Its easy and quick for the doctor in-office, but HELL for you. Get light anaesthesia or twilight sedation. I repeat – do NOT have a biopsy awake. (thats IF you agree to a biopsy, because you don’t have to, consider your options).

      Sorry if I’m scaring you a bit, the spotting is highly likely to be nothing to worry about, but you must carefully consider your options and what you think is right, before you go face-to-face with a doctor. Forewarned is forearmed.

      A lot of us here with trauma were never equipped with the right info and confidence to speak up for ourselves and sadly, we once trusted that our doctors wouldn’t abuse that trust…

      Can you let us know what you decide? We’re all on your side with this. 🙂

      Ozphoenix 🙂

      • Years ago I got conned into an endometrial biopsy.
        Ozphoeni is absolutely right.
        It is beyond painful. The MF who did it to me claimed it was like “mild cramping.” Never seen him since.
        I hope he rots for it. I’ve talked about this here before.

    • One more thing – women can get spotting after menopause that is just a blip in your system. Textbooks say after 12 months without a period nothing should be coming out after that, but NOT every woman or everybody follows the textbook. It’s actually more of a very general rule. Hope that helps.

    • I’ve gone through same.
      I was offered pap scrape and declined. It won’t show a thing.
      As said go with ultrasound.
      If you’re on HRT use only bio identical hormones.
      Avoid Premarin. It’s horse urine and carcinogenic in long exposure.

    • I still have all my female reproductive organs, never been on the pill or hormone replacement. I dont trust gyn Drs since I was abused by one in my teen years.
      The blood is red but just little spots, I did fall about a week ago on my but slid through water on my laminate wood flooring from my little grandsons cup ,I did a split with 1 leg tucked under me and I fell on my butt. This spotting is like I used to get,before I got my periods and this was years ago last period was when I turned 50.I have no cramps, just this annoying very light spotting going on 2 days now. Maybe keep an eye on it maybe? I do not really want a pap smear or go to a Gyn Dr.

      • And this is the 1st time I had this light spotting after menopause. I have a huge distrust and fear of Drs. I wish my husband was still here.

  50. This is the 1st time I had something like this, after going thru menopause which was pure hell , and the spotting is very light spotting maybe 2 tiny red spots on a pad (size of a dime) when I wiped this am I applied a little tissue to my vagina very little red blood hardly could see it.
    I have a huge distrust and fear of Drs. I wish my husband was still here. 😦

    • Our vaginal tissue becomes much drier and thinner as we age – maybe when you fell it caused some small internal tears. Also, even after menopause hormonal fluctuations occur – I’m close to your age (61) and have experienced a little spotting now and then when my hormones are active. From your history it sounds like the possibility of cervical cancer is quite low. Since it’s only been a couple of days I would monitor it for another week or two and see if it persists. It may well just stop on it’s own. Please keep us posted.

  51. Hi Kathleen p.
    Sorry but I can’t help you medically, but it seems to be worrying you to a big extent, you may need to pluck up the courage to see a doctor but don’t forget you can specify a female doctor for any intimate exams, and you mentioned in your post that you have a grandson could you ask your daughter or daughter in law to go with you for some support, and as oz said you could also undergo tests that are not so disturbing first such as blood tests and ultrasound
    (The jelly on the belly kind).
    Try not to worry too much, there can be many reasons why this is happening and most are not serious thinking of you Jules .

    • Thanks Jules I know this group is not a substitute for a Dr, I was hoping somebody has gone thru this. My 2 sons have been urging me to see a Gyn and a regular Dr for years, but I have never told my reasons for why I dont go, I do see my Internal medicine Dr once a year for my Hypothyroidism and refills of Synthroid , but she does not do pap tests but occasionally when I see her, she does blood work on me, maybe I need to make, a appointment with her for blood work up, my next appointment with her is next January 2023.
      Maybe the blood work results would show something, it is like 5 vials of blood she draws everytime, but when I just saw her a 2 weeks ago, she forgot about doing my blood work up.
      Ok gals, calling her right now to schedule full blood work up.

      • Hi Kathleen,
        I had tiny red spots of blood appear like this when I was 52. I’m now 60. They would appear for a while then stop. I kept hoping they would stop and go away, as I was very reluctant to approach any doctors, especially gynos. However, I was at my desk at work one day, when I had a sudden flood of blood come gushing out and soak right through my jeans. Really embarrassing as it was quite a lot of blood. I knew I couldn’t risk that again so had to approach my doctor, I’m in the UK. It is the rule for any postmenopausal bleeding in the over 50s to be automatically referred to hospital here. I had a transvaginal ultrasound which showed that my uterine lining was about 19mm thick with blood. A maximum of 5mm is allowed before there are suspicions of cancer, so I was booked for a hysteroscopy under GA pretty quickly. Biopsies from this confirmed endometrial cancer, and I had to have a total hysterectomy including removal pf ovaries. This was all removed vaginally so I don’t have any marks at all. I have to say that I was treated with kindness and respect once the cancer was confirmed and have been in excellent health ever since.

        In contrast, I’ve heard some real horror stories of women having hysteroscopies without any anaesthetic and finding they are absolute agony and cause enourmous distress. Some have had several, and it made my treatment for cancer sound like a walk in the park in comparison.

        I hope yours isn’t cancer, but if you are referred for hysteroscopy, insist on having anaesthetic for it. I’m glad it was offered to me.

      • Ahhh, you might want to search video for what a vaginal hysterectomy looks like.
        It’s ghastly. You’re opened up like a canned ham.
        I’ll never go that route.

  52. So this might be normal? I hope so as I stated I have fear of ALL Drs and dont trust them,
    I do have Hypothyroidism and when I see her it is only once a year, plus a nurse in the exam room, no touching me and the door is wide open.
    When I was, a teenager around 13 or 14, I went at the forcefulness of my mother to see this Gyno and he was touching me inappropriately and rubbing my still forming breasts and I told him to stop and he told me to be quiet ,its all part of my exam, had a unessary pap smear, needless to say I layed there quietly crying and was trying to be quiet, and no nurse in the room, this exam room was away from the waiting room like towards the back of the office. (never told my mom I was too ashamed and I am still today ), So he could do what he wanted to teenage girls like me or naive women.
    He lost his medical license after I was there like 6 years,after I was there, some group of women sued him for malpractice. Then he took his life as more lawsuits againsts him were pending.
    I am glad he is not hurting other girls or women anymore, he was a sick monster.
    Yes I did get mental help with the encouragement of my husband, he was always supporting me, not forcing me into seeing Gyn Drs.
    When I had my 2 kids I used a midwife that came to our home and I trusted her, but to go now to see a Gyn I dont think I will be going unless this bleeding gets really bad and heavy like a period, there is no pain or cramps I feel great, I will keep an eye on it and hope and pray it goes away, I just dont trust Drs, and it makes my anxiety and blood pressure go way up and sick to my stomach feeling.

  53. No family history of any kind of cancer, I called and double checked with my mom. So if I do have cancer I think that would be rare, as nobody in my family has any kind of cancer, I would think you would need family history of vaginal and cervical cancer.
    And mom told me all the women in the family had bad menopause like I went through, but no cancer in tne family. And I got a appointment with my Internal medicine Dr for blood work in 2 weeks January 25th ,full blood work up, so if there is cancer it should show up and I will take it from there.
    I only had a little spot this am smaller than a dime and nothing throughout today, pad is still clean.

      • Hi anonymous,
        There have been a few irregularities caused by the jab this being one of them, I think it can alter the hormonal balance, it can also cause the lymph nodes to swell a little in the breast underarm area nearest the injected arm.
        Hugs Jules x.

    • There is a hereditary component to some women’s cancers, but these are usually among those who carry one of the BRCA genes which increases the risk of breast and ovarian cancer. The biggest risk is advancing age, not family history. Also, cancer isn’t going to show up in bloodwork. It may cause abnormal results that upon further testing would lead to a cancer diagnosis (such anemia leading to a colon cancer diagnosis). I’m not trying to scare you because I think you’re going to be just fine. But as women it’s important to be as well informed and educated in health matters as we can be in order to be able to intelligently advocate for ourselves in a medical setting.

      • Judy is right.
        Let me add this.
        Cancer has an affinity for acidic and sugar rich bodies. So no soda pop.
        Inflammatory issues are another thing. If the animals we eat are factory fed, then the grain rich diet and confinement usually in their own waste creates an unhealthy food source. You are what you eat.
        Use coconut, avocado, grape seed, or olive oil. Cold pressed. You need heavy omega 3 oils.
        Dental hygiene is another.
        Water; is it filtered?
        And last is virus exposure.
        Epstein Barr virus is long term havoc.
        It leads to lymphomas.

    • Went to my Internal medicine Dr and she refered me to a Gyn/Ob Dr. Since I opened my big mouth and told her its been over 30 years for a pap or mammogram and my reasons why and now I had a little 2 blood spots and I havent been to a Gyn and I could tell by the way she was talking she was 1 of them.. all for unnecessary tests, so she talked me into seeing a gyn, my Dr made the appointment for that same day as it was urgent I get it done I should not have waited 30 + years for my womanly exams, I left there with my head swimming, like cattle going in the slaughter house, get to the gyn office, went in the patient room undressed from the waist down and then the gyn Dr came in and proceeded to degrade me what is wrong with me? Not getting my womanly exams yearly 30+ years! blah blah and being raped years ago should not stop me from getting pap smears nor should no history of cancer in the family, or only 2 sexuals partners in my life and NO. I am not currently sexually active, I havent been sexually active since my 40s, I went on in tears, to tell her my husband was paralyzed from the waist down from a car accident, no sex after that,my husband passed when I was 55 ,this Dr.took a breath and said still no reason for you not getting your womanly yearly exams. With that I was really mad and fuming she is not listening me, and the Dr goes on and on, the spot could be cancer like uterine ,cervical breast or a host of numerous other things, and I need to go for a colonoscopy too ,like tomorrow and mammogram following that she was talking to me like I was a child, all the while sitting on the horrible table,legs up and crying . She said this should be quick and painless no need to act like a baby this is my fault for waiting over 30 years, and she went to reach for the spreader I told her to STOP! I slid back and hopped off the table and told her to get out, she left I knocked all her tools onto the floors getting redressed. And I left! I dont care what I have, 1 or 2 little blood spots dont constitute this crap.! All the same Drs. Do they get a kick back or something getting women to do these needless procedures??. Im surprised she didnt want blood work for Herpes virus orsomething else . I am so done with these Drs, it is my body not theres and my decision. Last time I checked this is the USA, what happened to my rights as a women? And if my Internal medicine Dr refuses to see me as a patient after this, fine with me ,there is tons of Drs out there. Mad as hell! 😡😡

      • Good for you. Too bad you didn’t tell the bitch doctor that her attitude was the primary reason you don’t waste your time getting these invasive painful BS exams.
        Do you use HRT? I imagine no.
        Are you spotting a lot? I have a 14mm uterine lining. I’ll be getting an ablasion done while having a rectocele fixed.
        My diagnosis was by abdominal and vaginal ultrasound.
        I won’t have endometrial biopsy. It is extremely painful. Had one many years ago.
        Pap scrape is a waste. Remind them the Scrape is only 50% effective.
        Pap won’t show CC if it’s growing outward from uterus. It can’t. The algorithm computers use for scoring pap scrape cannot read cells outside the cervix.
        I’m so glad you walked out and left their nazi instruments on the floor.
        You pay their salaries. How dare they act like that.

      • No I am not taking anything except Synthroid which btw I am going to see a 2nd Dr to see if I really have Hypothyroidism.

      • No more spotting ,it was 2 days of first spot size of a dime and def. red blood, 2nd day alot smaller maybe the size of a pinhead blood spot on a pad that was it, I mentioned in previous posts I fell the week before while babysitting my grandson, he splashed fruit juice from his sippy cup on the floor ,and I didnt see it and I slid through it, my 1 leg went almost under me the other leg straight out like a split and then whacked my head and back on the floor, my reading glasses I had on, flew across the floor, I was sore everywhere and black and blue all over but nothing was broken, so did the fall cause the 2 little spots a week later? But nobody I mean nobody deserves, to be treated like I was in that so called Drs office. They are like automated robots scaring the hell out of women with cancer scare tatics and they talk down to you ,like they are better than you, lack of respect. Over it, never again.

      • In the US it’s the “if he doesn’t pap scrape you he’ll go yo jail.”
        My husband asking for a copy of that law resulted in nurses refusing to talk to him.
        Nag them back like this.
        If they want screening? Tell them the Delphi Screener or nothing.
        My husband readily tells doctors I know more about his prostate than they ever will.
        Husbands often are first to find breast lumps etc.
        I need rectocele repair surgery. My husband discovered it. The asshole gynecologist I quit feels there’s no need to check for these.
        Tells you what their priorities really are.

      • Kathleen – Have you thought of ordering a self-HPV test online?
        It’s an internal swab you perform on yourself to test for the presence of HPV and send off to a laboratory.

        As we know, HPV is the precursor to squamous cell carcinoma (a pap smear cannot detect “changes” caused by adenocarcinoma, which is a rare form of cervical cancer).

        The traditional pap checks for “changes” caused by squamous cell carcinoma.

        A self-HPV test could give you some peace of mind though I’d tell anyone to be alert to any worrisome symptoms despite the outcome of any test – unlike our irresponsible health practitioners.

        But from what you have described, your changes may just be hormonal.

      • Remember the passive self tests are more accurate than 50% pap scrape.
        Passive means performed in privacy in your home. No stirrups. No BS. No doctors. And peace & quiet.

  54. Hello again everyone,
    I was on Youtube just now and this came up in my “recommended for you” list of videos:

    More propaganda! Handed the forms back to my new surgery at the start of this week and in the box “when was your last smear” I wrote “informed dissenter”. I got there at lunchtime and the place was shut so I just posted them through the letter box. Not heard anything back so hopefully will just be added to their patient list

  55. Hi ladies,
    I’m having a little trouble understanding this, maybe somebody can explain I’ve just read a a story that was in the daily mirror on 31/12/21 , it is a story by a nurse called Charlotte woodward who at the age of 32 has been diagnosed with terminal cervical cancer , even though she attended her screens regularly, she has set up an Instagram account to bring awareness of the disease , women have sent messages of support and are telling her that because of her they are going to or already have gone for tests themselves . !!!!!
    So this is what I’m struggling with this poor girl although attending regularly for smears is diagnosed with terminal cervical cancer even though her tests came back clear, and those that have replied to her are all rushing to get a test that has failed her ????
    Wtf is wrong with these women.
    This must be something beyond my comprehension because I just don’t get it .
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Quite ironic, isn’t it Jules, when the pro-screening fanatics tell us ‘silly girls’ not to fear the smear yet the only reason they go for testing is due to CC paranoia – fear which only exists because of the damned test!

      Critical thinking isn’t a skill which many possess, unfortunately, and fear of disease and death tends to cloud people’s judgement at the best of times.
      Doesn’t help that the NHS and their cronies have been lying to us for decades, and to this day won’t admit how horribly unreliable the test truly is. No doubt these young impressionable women believe that Charlotte’s case was very rare, when we know false negatives are very common. There’s so much spin surrounding smears that we rarely hear about the patients who fall through the net.

      It was the same with Jade Goody – a victim of medical negligence used to frighten young women. And I remember there was a character in a popular soap opera years ago who ‘died’ from CC despite having regular testing, same thing there – a surge in attendance.
      Yes, it boggles my mind too.

    • Pap scrape is only 50% accurate.
      That means a false result 50% or more.
      Why trust a coin toss?
      So she ending up with CC isn’t a surprise.
      Also if it’s an adenocarcinoma that grows from inside out pap cannot diagnose it. Period.

  56. Nothing today I just had that 1 small spot size of a dime, 2nd day very tiny blood spot and nothing since, I am not going for a pap smear or blood work up that sounds like it is a waste of time. I haven’t gone for a pap or mamogram since I was in my 30’s, it is my body not the Drs. I think its a propoganda scaring women into get unessary pap test.

  57. Hi ladies,
    I sometimes venture into enemy held territory to keep a watchful eye on going’s on, and their take on matters , and sorry to report that the vast majority of women must be as dum as mud . That petition that’s been mentioned a couple of days ago here that had reached 90,000 has now exceeded 150,000 , and the comments on Twitter are just insane , women saying that they had cervical abnormalities at 21 years old and If it hadn’t been detected and treated they would have died , others saying that it should be available from age 18 and done on a yearly basis ? I would love to ask them on what scientific studies are there conclusions based upon , but I think you would find their answers would be well my mom says or my friend says or the nurse says or the girl I work with says , I really despair sometimes as I mentioned earlier they really must be as dum as mud.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules,
      There have been a number of these petitions over the years and when they come to debate it they will trot out the same response as they have in all the others: that the new HPV test can detect further in advance than the old test and that screening more frequently and earlier than this causes ever more harm, but the girlies just won’t understand it. There will be another petition in a couple of years time when they bring about another change. They’ve been brainwashed by decades of propaganda about the test and the medical profession would prefer that the truth about all those LLETZ procedures was kept hidden from the public.

  58. Hi ladies,
    Just calmed down from my last rant, put my feet up turned the television on and sod me a report on the bloody news going on about cc awareness week , I give up telly off , music on , crossword at the ready , now where’s that bottle.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • I completely sympathise Jules. I’ve decided to stop engaging on social media around this topic for my own wellbeing. Women have been thoroughly brainwashed and nothing can make them shift their perspective. I can just imagine the twitter conversations now and they turn nasty very quickly. It truly is a cult-like mentality. It’s complete hysteria and I’m really trying to shift my own perspective from one of anger to one of sympathy that they are all so fearful and uninformed/misinformed. Mind you, it’s not easy because their hysteria has a direct impact on other women like us who want informed choice and to be able to have a GP appointment without pressure and coercion!

    • I only watch streaming channels and catch-up TV now so luckily I’m out of the loop! 😅

      Fed up of these tacky soaps and ill-informed z-listers banging on about screening! 😕😴

  59. Morning everyone,
    So this week is Cervical Cancer Hysteria Week (errr I mean awareness week). Has anyone else noticed that social media twitter especially is swarming with women saying they have just had this done or about to get it done. Worryingly even men are posting about the importance of having a smear test. The mind just boggles, one poor deluded sheep is even posting on Twitter that if you know the symptoms book a smear test. I didnt have the heart to tell her that if you must have this humiliating, degrading and completely pointless test then you wont be having “symptoms” in the first place. Honestly the mind boggles…… (Rant over )

    Jess

    • Some consolation is that in spite of these pathetic events, the uptake continues to fall year on year, so they clearly don’t work, at least not more than a week after the event. Some will book tests to appease friends and be one of the office clique, and then not show up when the hysteria dies down. It is the same self-righteous blind zealots who speak up for this again and again and it is re-assuring their number gets smaller and smaller each year. If they were hitting their targets and getting their full cash incentives we wouldn’t be getting any of these events at all. They are a sign that they are desperate and losing control over the herd.

    • Seeing men getting involved in this debate really boils my blood.

      What right have they got to get involved when scientists are busy trying to devise painless and non-intrusive methods to “screen” for prostate cancer?

      They can all bu**er off 🤬

  60. Hi ladies,
    It all seems to be kicking off in wales, there’s now over one million votes on that petition and they have stopped venting their anger out on sites such as Twitter and Facebook and have turned on the health services like rabid dogs , NHS wales have been left trying to defend their decision saying that the hpv test is better than the old cytology test and the five year gap is perfectly ok for this type of screening but admit what they should of done is to of made the change in a more informed way to the public , this could not have come at a more inappropriate time with it being awareness week, and some urging people to go for screening
    and these other morons telling them not to bother for another two years, I’m finding it absolutely hysterical, and can’t wait to see the reaction of the sheep when they try to do this in England, and the best thing is that this is all their own doing scaring the hell out of women for decades, and using underhand tactics for compliance and conformity, as they say karma will always find a way of coming back and biting you on the ass for wrongdoing.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Couldn’t agree more with you, Jules. It is entirely of their own making. They’ve brainwashed and scaremongered for decades and now they want to change something they get this huge backlash. If they had told women the truth from the start, the women would have started a petition to get the new test brought in sooner! It is utter madness and just shows how little the women really understand this test, and how ridiculous their argument is that these women attend through informed choice. Come to think of it, I didn’t think there were even 1 million women of screening age living in Wales…? Who are these people?

      • There’s also a lot of backlash against Jo’s Trust on twitter where they have tried to explain the change in interval between testing in Wales. JT tweeted something about the ‘confusion’ arising from the change and most of the responses are to the effect of ‘I’m not confused, but outraged. How many more women will die?!” and “You have blood on your hands for this” and of course all of the people who “would have been dead” if not for a screening before 25, or if they had gone longer without one. They have no idea how confused they truly are.

      • I hope they now realise just how damaging all these years of propaganda and brainwashing have been to women. They caused this hysteria with their slogans equating a missed smear test with certain death, and blaming those who have the disease of getting it because of failing to get a test. They should realise the harm this has caused to women. They’ve scaremongered to get money and donations from terrified women. Whole business is disgusting.

    • Very well said Jules, I am really hoping that Public Health/NHS England adopt this approach. While I have opted out I just want to view they hysteria when this is announced.

      Jess

      • Popcorn at the ready 🍿 🤣

        On another note, I am shocked how ill-informed and utterly hysterical these women are 😬

        They remind me of the kind of women who would have reported their neighbours for witchcraft in the 17th century.

  61. Hi All,
    I read about this site in the “30 years of PAP” rape book I read over christmas. Im Michelle and I am now in my 50s and was bullied into having this tests first at 18, then again at 21 and again at 24. The first was when I went on the pill at 18 everything was fine then when I went back to get the next three months worth I was conned into going to a well woman clinic. I had my children at 26 and 28 and afterwards my hubby had the snip and I have rarely been to a GP since as I know I will just get pressured into having a smear test that I dont want. The nurse “GG” the lady in the book refers to really did strike a chord with me. I am glad I found this site as it makes me feel normal that I wont go for a smear.

    Kind regards,

    Michelle

    • Hi Michelle,
      Welcome to this site and I’m very impressed with your choice of Christmas reading. You couldn’t have made a better choice!
      It is totally normal not to want to have cervical screening, but what has given rise to websites such as this is the propaganda and brainwashing which accompanies this test. That our health service is keeping honest statistics from women, plying them with bias, intimidation and outright lies is shameful and unacceptable. Women are treated like cattle rather than informed adults who have every right to make up their own minds. I consider the vast majority of women who go for screening to have not made an informed decision to do so. They are the ones who have not read anything other than advertising slogans. Those of us who have opted out are the informed ones who have worked out the truth. Glad you enjoyed the book and hope you enjoy more of this site.

    • Welcome Michelle, I found this site a couple of months ago and its very empowering. I have never had a smear test despite being coerced both passively and aggresively into having it done. I have now formally opted out of cervical screening an hoping I have seen the last of those awful invites and cheap paper leaflets.

      Jess

    • Yes Michelle P welcome! So glad u found your way to this amazing site, the site and the women here, on it, have been a support to myself for many years now, and to others too! It’s so positive, in the past few months, how many newcomers have found their way here, that’s yet more deserting the cervical screening programme, never to return!!! X

  62. There was a male gynecologist on are news channel today. He said the cc was the “second most diagnosed cancer in woman.” He was promoted if the government vaccine and saying it could “prevent abnormal Pap smears”. He didn’t say cc cancer he said abnormal Pap smears. He said that cc is preventable and all woman were at risk especially over 30.

    • ‘The second most common cancer in women’. Worldwide, perhaps, but not in the USA. It’s not even the second most common gyn cancer in the USA.
      When they use the term ‘in women’ (or ‘in men’) they’re only focusing on our reproductive system – body parts which are exclusive to one gender. Neatly ignoring all the other cancers which occur in both men and women, making their pet disease look far more of a threat than it is.

      And it’s also extremely manipulative to use worldwide figures or compare women from developed countries to those in the third world. Sure, their CC rates are indeed much higher but when you look at the all-cause mortality it’s clear that that CC is NOT a ‘leading cause of death’ for women in the third world, nor is the rate of CC higher over there purely due to a lack of screening.

      • My question when it’s brought up about how much CC there is in the undeveloped world, especially extremely poor countries is who is doing all of these autopsies? It seems a bit suspicious when there are not enough doctors, nurses,nor infrastructure to even come close to meeting the basic medical needs of their populations.

      • Yes I can’t believe all these doctors coming on the news channels trying to scare woman that they missed cancer screening during the pandemic. I new it was false I couldn’t believe his audacity. There is fear in the mead community that woman are not coming in for screenings.

  63. Also what’s with this chant hat the HPV vaccine prevents abnormal Pap smears. This is so misleading. Abnormal paps don’t always mean it’s cancer. I see the manipulation.

  64. I’ve just received a summons for breast screening. I’m in the UK. This is about my 4th and previously you got given a ready made appointment at some nearby facility to attend. They must have had so many no-shows, because this one leaves you to make your own appointment. That should see the uptake drop a bit. Interesting to see how soon the reminder comes.

    • Hi Adawells, I had this just after my 50th birthday a couple of years back. They took the liberty of making me an appointment at a time that was totally inconvenient (not that I would have gone anyway). I never bothered attending the appointment as I wasn’t interested and a few minutes after the time of the appointment my mobile started ringing like crazy from a withheld number. After about 30 minutes it stopped and I eventually listened to the voice message of an irate radiographer almost demanding that I answer her calls and hot foot down to the mobile breast screening unit. Like cervical screening I had a few chasing letters that went straight in the bin.

      • Woah Michelle you were unlucky there! I didn’t think they pushed as much for mammograms! I got my 1st summons in 2015, and felt obliged to cancel so it could go to someone who wanted/ needed it,,luckily I wasn’t given any hassle on the phone, I said cancel and I’m not interested in re booking! I formally opted out right after and haven’t been bothered since

      • Hi Kat Rehman, It was the radioographer herself that called me. I think she was more annoyed that I hadn’t turned up and she was waiting for me that triggered her call. She was quite stroppy with me so I think I had a lucky escape! I had a breast exam when I had my first two smears and also by the midwife after I had both my kids and I find them just as bad as a smear.

      • Michelle,
        I’m interested to see what happens this time around. I’ve always kept my mobile number a secret from my GP, but since we’ve had to download that blessed NHS App for COVID, they’ve now got my mobile number and have texted me before about some minor issue. Definitely a change of action from the breast screening organisation. Previously, a pre-arranged appointment has been made for me and I’ve always phoned to cancel. It frees up the appointment for some other misguided woman and stops any follow up letters, but now this is different. As there is no appointment to cancel I wonder what happens next. Will keep you posted.

    • I had that in the summer, but they rang me up after a couple of weeks to make the appointment.

      I had cancelled the previous appointment given me as it was only a 2 year interval since previous recalls and I wasn’t having it. Then I didn’t make an appointment myself later so I had about a 4 1/2 year interval which was fine by me.

      I was assuming they were trying to keep their numbers within the next time threshold for their statistics, but it may be a new system for everyone?

  65. Hi ladies,
    I hate the old cliche “I told you so”, but you just knew it was going to happen, upon hearing that Wales had followed Scotland
    In the change to five yearly testing women in Norwich are starting to organise a petition to try and stop the three year tests changing to five yearly in England , even though up to now there haven’t been any announcements it looks like the screening services are going to be in for a rough ride, and I will relish every moment.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Just what is it that’s wrong with these silly fools that they just can’t see common sense? With less than two thirds bothering with the programme, you’d think some of them would have tried to infiltrate some sense into them. I hope that if it kicks off there will be some serious questioning about the brainwashing that’s been going on all these years and some serious attempts to educate these nutters.

  66. Hi ladies,
    As you know a couple of weeks ago I registered with a new Surgery after being struck off by the last one at the end of last year. I handed my new patient registration forms in and in the box that said “what was the date of your last smear” I put in “Informed Dissenter”. I am off work today and tomorrow and just had a called from the new surgery. “Hi Jessica , its new surgery here just onboarding you to our system, and I have read your form and for your last smear you say you are an informed desserter can you explain what that means please”?
    “errr I am not an informed desserter”, “well on your form it says you are”, “well I am not an informed desserter but I AM an informed dissenter”….
    “Well anyway can you explain what you mean please”? “Yes it means I have never had a smear test, and more importantly will never be having one as I have opted out, and trying to coerce me into having one is regarded as harassment and wont be tolerated, furthermore I will report you to your superiors for harassment”

    “What???? you’ve never had a smear test? Its very important we need to get you booked in ASAP”. “Firstly congratulations on getting a degree in life sciences, you clearly seem to be very highlight qualified for a receptionist, but what part of the word no don’t you understand? Like I said I will never put myself through this humiliating, degrading, and completely pointless test”

    “OK firstly I done have a medical degree but I understand what you are saying, maybe I can get one of the nurses to call you and explain cervical screening, its really nothing to worry about and all women have them, you should have come in last week when it was cervical cancer awareness week and you could have had a walk in appointment”. “Dont bloody bother, and if you don’t mind I am busy”

    “well if you insist, but i’ll get one of the nurses to give you a call sometime, they are really lovely you know and do this every day” (I am thinking do they harass women every day or do cervical screening everyday)

    Sorry for my terrible punctuation, but hopefully you the idea of how this new place works. I look forward to her calling me as long as I am not jet lagged, I will think nothing of giving her a piece of my mind!!

    Kind regards,

    Jess

    • They claim to be so informed, so right and knowing all about it, but they are utterly clueless that women have any rights over their own bodies, and any say in the matter at all. The same people are shocked when you tell them that bullying and coercion are endemic in the programme. I’m afraid that is receptionists and nurses all over. I doubt the GP would have the time to stand there arguing about it, especially if you confronted them with questions about their incentive payments. They probably know how pointless the test is. but only want the payments. Doubt they’ve seen a case of cervical cancer in years. You can actually check your GP surgery’s screening uptake on the KPI indexes. (Key Performance Indexes).

    • Made a wordpress account as Facebook is being dumb and not connecting. This is still Jacqueline tho.
      It definetely is both nurses, doctors, and receptionists. My last experience, it was the receptionist that decided i was due for a pap smear in october of 2020 without even consent from me. To boot, i didn’t even want the pap, declined the colosophy, and smh. Then i got letters that my doctor was trying to reach me.. alll to bully me about a screening test! That’s not right, at all.

    • This is ridiculous.

      You are entitled – by law – to decline any medical treatment or procedure provided you are a competent adult and competency is presumed unless they are told otherwise.

      This needs to stop. Threaten to report them to the GMC unless they accept your refusal. They need reminding of their legal obligations.

  67. Btw… my husband was snipped after our 2nd son was born, so no to being on any kind of pills birth control or hormonal pills. And I demaded my patient file when I left that office and the receptionists gave it to me,which I was surprised ,I figured I would have to fight for those papers in court, but they are now all shredded then I burned the shredded pieces in my outdoor bbq grilled. And I reported this Dr to my health Ins company and to the local medical board, I highly doubt anything will be done, were are these Drs morales ? And NO I dont have or had any exposures to sexually transmitted infections, I cant believe she assumed I am some kind of I dont know what to call it, sexually active with other men since my husband was disabled,I never was unfaithful to my husband till the end and I am still faithful after his passing. 😡

  68. Hi jess,
    I think it’s time to have a little fun, when the nurse calls ask her questions that she couldn’t possibly know the answers to,
    Lifetime risk of cc ( 0.63)
    Accuracy of hr hpv testing (71%
    False positive percentages
    False negative percentages
    The over treatment percentages
    The spontaneous regression of cin 1, cin2, cin3. (99.1)(95)(88) respectively
    And then while her brain is still smouldering, ask her if it’s normal for the practice to act illegally by pressuring women who have made an informed decision to opt out, and if this is her idea of respecting a patient’s decision. And then finish her with a ku de gras by telling her she can help with some information and that you would like to know about the surgery complainants procedure.
    Hugs Jules x.

      • Thanks for your comments Ladies.

        I am half looking forward to a possible call from a nurse half dreading it. While I am happy to say “I am NOT having this test” I am not sure if I am confident enough to go through the stats, facts and figures in a way that sounds like I am not reading it off of a screen. Personally I wish they would just push off and leave me alone. I have been harrassed for this since I was 18 and have always just said a firm NO. I tend to think its a bit like getting rid of religous groups that knock on your door recruiting, the more you argue with them they more they persist as they like to attack your view and facts with theirs so I just so NO and walk away or slam the door in their face.

        Jess.

      • Stats? Don’t worry.
        Simply say your vagina deserves more than a test with 50% efficacy.
        Your pussy cat shouldn’t be disturbed for the equivalent of a coin toss.

      • Blimey Jess, how did you get away with not getting smeared? I got practically forced into having my first smear back in 1988 as a chubby shy 18 year old who had gone on the pill three months before. I have never felt more pressured into getting anything done as much as I was into having this.

  69. Hi ladies,
    Professor Peter sasieni has spoken to the mail on Sunday who is the head of medical trials at Kings college London about the public backlash over the time change in screening times, and that this same proposal was supposed to be introduced in England before the end of 2022 but that may now be postponed until a major awareness campaign has taken place to reassure women that the new proposal is in their best interest.
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha good luck with that Pete,
    Myself and Annette will be sitting at the by line drinking chianti and eating marshmallows watching it all unfold and trying our hardest not to pee ourselves laughing.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • Hi Jules (and everyone else), This is music to my ears. Que mass hysteria! Do you have a link to the article in the Daily Fail ? I am feeling down today and need a good laugh reading it

      Jess

    • Want to see pap scrape freaks commit suicide en mass?
      Begin insisting that 80 year olds should have them every 6 months and that teens are mostly immune from hpv and thus don’t require screening.
      Then we’ll really see what it’s all about.

    • You know Not that- but i bet if we all got together and created a movement that these exams are pointless, with the proof of the numbers and all, maybe more people will believe us. i thought of starting a movement like this in the US, As well as informing people about consent.

      • Hi sunflowergal 22
        I’m afraid that this has been proposed by numerous women before and has never been successful because of the way women have been programmed from a very early age to comply with medical recommendations and pressure from family ,peers and unscrupulous practitioners, until the medical profession actually come clean about the decades of misinformation and accuracy of testing things will sadly continue

  70. Hi jess,
    Sorry I’ve been searching but I can’t seem to find that article to forward it, I must have gone through hundreds yesterday and only remember that this article was on the daily fail website, probably 2-3 days after the Welsh announcement sorry again but from now on I will keep track of sources.
    Hugs Jules x.

    • https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-01-11/senedd-petition-fast-tracked-as-millions-voice-concerns-over-smear-test-changes

      It looks like they’re trying very hard to nip this in the bud. I’m sure I saw it too, but can’t find it anywhere now. They are going to rush through the Welsh petition to try and convince these silly women they’ve made a big mistake, and probably stop it sparking off petitions elsewhere. Did I catch somewhere that they’d planned to bring it in in England at the end of this year?

      • As someone who lives in Wales, it really makes me angry that a large proportion of those signing don’t even live here!! I hope the Welsh Government hold firm and do not reverse their decision. I bet Cervical Screening England are watching events very closely!

      • That’s what I thought. Far too many for Welsh population. I hope the Welsh govt stands up to these stupid petitions and stops anymore of them. I actually wonder if private individuals are actually behind them and not The Daily Fail, or private healthcare companies seeking to get rich on picking up the terrorised well…?

      • Hi Ada,
        Yes the article I read
        (And now can’t bloody find ) said that all countries of the uk were to use the new five year proposals by the end of 2022 , but I don’t know if this will happen now because of all the commotion by the
        Screenaholics.
        Hugs Jules .

  71. Hi all,
    I have a bit of a dilemma. One of my daughter’s friends who is nearly a year older than my daughter has just received her first invitation letter for cervical screening. Her mum sadly died suddenly when she was a teenager and her and my dau have always been close and she tends to regard me a bit of a surrogate mum, she got in with life after she lost her mum and is really level headed.
    She was asking me about cervical screening yesterday and I said I had stopped going when I was her age and that it can lead to a lot of false positives. I didn’t go as far as saying I am anti screening but made sure I explained that I don’t go myself. She says she would like to get it done “just to be sure” and asked if I would go with her when she makes her appt. Ladies help!!! Really not sure what to do here. Its against my standards to support this test but I want to help my Dau’s friend.

    • sorry I should add its Michelle Perkins here posting the above. I got a bit finger happy and submitted the post before entering my usual name

    • That’s a tough one. If she’s bound and determined to have this done even after you informed her of the potential harms, I would go with her. It may be that after the procedure, once she experiences firsthand how invasive and uncomfortable it is, she’ll have a different perspective. Perhaps what you told her will click and she’ll take a closer look at the harms vs. benefits. She’s lucky to have you as a surrogate mom.

  72. Hi Michelle,
    If this girl looks up to you for guidance, it would be best if you told her it’s her decision to make and suggest that she needs to read up on the subject before she decides, tell her to read about the pro’s and cons of the test, she could read the propaganda leaflets that they supply in favour of the test , and you could probably guess which source of information I would suggest in opposition to the test, (fweo) either way it should be her decision and say that you would support the choice she makes (and hopefully she makes the right one) .

    • Hi Jules and Judy, Thanks for your replies. I showed her this site and also read through the propaganda leaflet that they sent with her invitiation letter ( they get more and more tacky printed on crap quality paper that looks like its been done on a home printer). She has booked the appointment for Monday 14th February at 9am which is the first appointment of the day. I said that Drs have a habit of running late and the last thing you want to be doing before an appointment like that is stressing in a packed waiting room stressing out while they are running late. The appointment is with “The Nurse” who we understand is female. My daughters friend has asked if I can go in with her when the smear is taken and not just sit in the waiting room. I am not sure who is more nervous about this now me or her

      • Hi Michelle,
        I forgot to mention that she could always self test for hr hpv she could get reassurance from this test without having all the abuse tacked on, the test is as accurate as clinic sampling and this is what I will undertake when the time comes, it’s only a swab so she would miss out the speculum and the stranger part,
        Hugs jules x.

  73. Hi ladies,
    It has been announced on the news tonight by the health secretary that healthcare workers will no longer face getting fired for not having the COVID vaccine, in the following interviews of staff after the announcement a nurse said that 70,000 workers were prepared to lose their jobs because it was a matter of principle and that it went against all that they are taught on bodily autonomy and free choice , it’s a shame that they only think this applies when it’s them , and not to the patients they harass on a regular basis.
    Hugs Jules x.

  74. Jules I saw this too and am actually relieved about the u turn! However one feels about the vaccine, and people who choose not to have it, I always thought of the vaccine (or indeed any other treatment) was made compulsory the floodgates would open and more would be made compulsory, including smears for women! I think it was Demos who called for that a few years back!!

  75. Good morning Ladies,
    I hope everyone is well. I was looking through the Daily Fail website yesterday and this came up in my news feed:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10464317/Smear-tests-one-day-tell-women-ovarian-breast-cancer-experts-say.html

    While I am not overly interested in the claim that they can use this test to detect other cancers, it does state further down that they are planning to change the interval between screening to 5 years in the UK by the end of 2022. Que mass hysteria!

    Also on youtube there is a video rather worryingly filmed in the UK where a 38 year old lady was forced to have a smear test as part of IVF egg collection:

    I would have blown my top if this had been forced on me.

    Kind regards,

    Jess

    • They’ve tried this before (quelle surprise) and it didn’t work, so I’m not sure if this is the Daily Mail running an outdated story or scientists pushing their luck once again.

      A screening programme for ovarian cancer has recently been ruled out, despite the researchers saying early results were “promising”.

      Grasping at straws spring to mind. They just won’t give up, will they?!

      • This shist has come up in the States a couple years ago.
        Why the excitement? Another reason to get in our pants and get paid too.
        Same cells circulate in our blood.
        Same cells also are filtered out in our urine.
        But a vagina in the stirrups is worth two at home.

    • Honestly what is with testing virgins!!!!!!!!!!! Really if we never had sex, there is no need to test for these things. If we had sex, okay we are more at risk, but at that point it should be a choice.

  76. Hi ladies! Just had an alert from They work for you, cervical screening, about amoung other things yearly check ups to spot gynae cancers and it seems on 14 feb this year yet another campaign is to be launched help us to help you, raising awareness of the benefits of screening groan! Bloody Valentine’s Day! A new best timed pathway for gynae cancers will be announced shortly, can’t wait!

    • Well that sure strips romance and sex out of it.
      Or.
      They want to see your “heart” on Valentines Day.
      And, your heart puts them in heat.

    • It isno doubt an attempt to involve men in screening and to probably present an inappropriate, sexualised campaign 😡

      PHE had previously said that all their campaigns would be targeted at females as the decision to undergo screening is a woman’s choice!

      • For goodness sake this is getting out of hand now. If I want to get screened will get screened (I don’t so I opted out but still get harrassed) Who is “They work for you” it sounds interesting, do you have a link Kat Rehman ?

      • Hi AQ,
        I think you may be right by trying to influence your nearest and dearest to “persuade”you it would be beneficial for you to take the test . Imagine your other half ringing up and saying he’s picking you up on valentines night and taking you somewhere special and then arriving with a lovely bunch of flowers and a short drive later pulling up on the clinic car park and giving you a pre booked appointment card , after the argument I’m afraid I would be looking for another other half.
        Hugs Jules x.

      • Jules,

        The concept of a romantic partner taking one out for a romantic time on Valentines Day, taking the person to a clinic for a medicalized rape, then hoping for a “hot time” afterward is amusingly absurd. Yes, the stop at the clinic would quickly get me looking for a new partner.

        When will they get the notion of consent down pat? I’ve seen an explanation which would work in this setting as explained in a book written for middle school students, so it could be understood by 9-12 year old children. This seems too hard for medical professionals with advanced degrees though. Grown women don’t seem to understand the safety concepts that children can – it’s a blind spot when it comes to any medical setting.

    • They haven’t learned a thing have they? Can remember years ago Dr Margaret McCartney raised this issue of smear tests being presented as part of every woman’s lifestyle – haircut, cinema tickets, cervical screening. Remember that advertisement? They seemed to have stopped doing that for a while due to criticism, but it seems like they’ve reinstated it. We’ll just have to be prepared with the facts and waiting for them on social media.

  77. Hi ladies,
    Another awareness campaign less than a month after the last one, Jesus they really are clinging on to desperation,
    On the flip side a couple of women’s forums yesterday said that some hrt treatments could be made available without seeing a doctor and a prescription in the near future, a little bit of give and take, they give out shit and expect us to take it .
    Hugs Jules x.

  78. I am so annoyed at my new insurance right now, trying to order new birth control with NURX through my new insurance- all i get is CANCELED. SMH. And i thought of calling but they probably would say oh nurx isn’t a doctor’s office. Well the prescriptions are written by real doctors. whatever. more 435 for me!

  79. Jess, it’s the same old depressing language… raise awareness (why?? We already have smears forced on us every time we breathe! Encourage us to book for them… we would if we wanted to go wouldn’t we? And FFS HOW is a smear empowering? Answers on a postcard pls….now I’m off to find the vomit bucket 🪣!!

    • They never stop banging on with their unhinged campaigns do they!

      I’ve said it before. It’s like being stalked by Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction!

    • Has somebody somewhere really said that having a cervical smear is empowering??? Thats crazy, whats empowering about going to an appointment that has been practically forced on you, only to have the person you have the appointment with to usually be at least 20 minutes late, be forced to undress from the waist down or totally and put a surgical gown on, lay on a bed that forces your legs open, and have an hideously embarrassing/degrading/painful procedure carried out. There are some very strange people about

      • You are empowered to be humiliated, to sexually arouse the doctor, yo receive a 50% effective test, etc.

      • I think it’s more empowering to say no and put your foot down to something unwanted being imposed on you.

      • Well exactly. Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not advocating for you to attend. My husband insisted he go along. That was a good idea.
        There was one nurse practitioner who admitted the test was a waste of time. She was the most educational and helpful.
        Otherwise, having hubby there was my safety net, and something to distract the doctor from his own pants.
        I’ve said this before. But a reminder. Google Jeffrey Abrams MD and Naga Thota MD. I knew the latter. Each are doing 20 years prison time. It would be good for you to know what their MO was. If you’re going to go, then having your husband or significant other, especially if that person is educated and knows what to watch for, would be a very good idea.
        Otherwise my response was meant to be sarcasm. Something I hope you shove in the National Health’s or your pushy nurse’s face. Let the phone screener digest that.
        Because we know what empowerment really means.

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