This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
Oh god, I just had a brief peek at the Mumsnet discussion – a cult of screening hysteria if ever there was one. I beat a hasty retreat when I saw a comment about how women who don’t screen are ‘living in blissful ignorance’ about this ‘amazing test’. The irony – I’ve done more research into said ‘amazing test’ than any other woman I know who thinks it’s their duty to ‘educate the uneducated’ around screening. I can’t read the rest of it lol it’ll make me too angry and I’ll be tempted to set up an account and contribute. That never ends well, nothing you can say can provide any kind of alternative perspective.
I have just had a peek over at the mumsnet site too, talk about mass hysterial. I was going to post that I have never gone and never will! Some of the people on there who have also never been or have stopped going seem familiar from another site I look at 🙂 …..
Jess
I’ve looked at Mumsnet a few times on this issue – they are totally brainwashed into the cervix scrape over there. It’s frightening.
Thanks Jules for helping me out ! And Gem your right. They’re blinded by hysteria over on Mumsnet. I asked why the hysterical outpouring over smears and why don’t we target men and bowel screening. They couldn’t or wouldn’t answer the bowel screening but apparently… well you’ve seen what they say about life saving smears….
Hi Gem,
“Living in blissful ignorance”
This comment alone shows who’s really living in ignorance these women believe everything they are spoon fed by the screening authorities and don’t have the capacity or inclination to investigate the information supplied to them any further,
unlike them I prefer all the facts.
Hugs Jules x.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised that members of Jo’s Tosh are trolling these websites, posing as happy Mums who just love getting their smear tests. I know that in the past they’ve told people who contact them to go on social media and promote screening. I’ve seen a few people post about screening at the request of Jo’s. I’m sure their team go on Mumsnet from time to time to stir things up a bit, capture some of the waverers put their propaganda across..
Yes indeed….An older colleague of mine took a phone call today and seemed very shaken. When I enquired, she said it was her doctor telling her she ‘has to’ make an appointment to get some polyps cut off her cervix. They were noticed at her smear apparently. The doctor told her they are almost certainly beneign but should still come off ‘just in case’. I asked her if they caused her any problems and she said no, that she wouldn’t even have known they were there. She is so upset understandingly about getting them cut/pulled off but when I said she should think about just leaving them she said no because if it’s cancer she would never forgive herself if she did nothing.
On another note, I was at a woman’s centre recently and saw a pamphlet about the importance of breast screening. It had a table for my country comparing number of deaths of women of various ages with breast cancer who HAD screening vs NOT screening. Breast screening saves lives the pamphlet said but in actual fact, the difference was so tiny (in the younger age groups only 1 or 2 women difference in favor of screening) I almost laughed if it hadn’t been so sad. I really do question the supposed benefits vs the risks. I will be opting out of the free breast screening programme when I become eligible next year just as I have opted out of the cervical screening.
Good morning Ladies,
I hope you al had a good weekend. Sorry to keep starting new threads on here but I have just seen something on twitter that has made my blood boil. Dr Rosemary Leonard seems to think its acceptable to shame no shows for screening on twitter:
Dr Rosemary Leonard:
I did an extra surgery today doing catch-up smear tests. SEVEN no-shows. Would have been nine but after a phone call two came in. It’s not just bad manners, it’s wasting scarce (weekend!) NHS capacity. There’s something systemically wrong where there are no consequences for this.
Consequences??? How many of these no shows were forced/coerced/passively persuaded to attend in the first place? This arrogant individual (I nearly wrote something much stronger) needs to be struck off! I really feel for the two women who were called and submitted themselves to this ordeal. Shame on you Dr Rosemary Leonard.
Jess
Hi Jess,
If these ladies had been harangued into these appointments and then failed to show, it just about serves her right . ( I hope it really f up her weekend )
Another point is they keep trying to get swathes of ladies in for testing and around 220,000 in the uk will be found to have “abnormalities”annually who are then referred to colposcopy to decide if they need further procedures , when there are over 300,000 patients already waiting for cancer treatments and a backlog total of over 6,000,000 others waiting for general operations, who the f is going to give all this treatment, i think this cow should be doing a bit more than the odd weekend and moaning about it.
Hugs Jules x.
How awful. I wonder how many of those women were, for example, survivors of sexual violence who were trying to avoid something traumatic and didn’t wish to discuss it in person due to being harassed and harangued at every turn. And exactly Jess, how many of those people made an informed choice to attend in the first place? Not one, I’d wager.
Also, why is she shaming women not turning up for cervical screening in particular? I’m sure there are numerous no shows every day. I did see the point about her putting on an extra clinic to ‘improve access’, but is that really the reason…? Anyone would think they get incentive payments or something…
Maybe because we’re in the middle of another ‘scareness’ campaign and she though it was a good opportunity to chastise naughty non-attenders?
I firmly believe that many of the women who state they’re having trouble getting appointments at a convenient time are lying – they just don’t want to test but are afraid to admit it.
Dr. Leonard is yet another ‘celebrity’ doctor – MBE, no less – who reeks of arrogance. Made plenty of money, no doubt, form her books, articles, appearances on tv/radio, gets paid £50k+ per year for working part-time as a GP… yet whines about no-show patients being a ‘drain’ on NHS resources. Maybe she could use that extra time to write another book, eh?
Little bit suspicious that they’re still doing ‘catch up’ smears when the screening programme resumed last summer… if they’re struggling to cope with patient demand then it’s a bit rich for them to whine about DNA’s for ‘health checks’ which are largely a waste of time, money & resources. Her practice offers routine breast checks, so they’ve obviously got no problem when it’s only the patient’s time and money they’re wasting.
And yes, one wonders how many of those non-attenders were ‘persuaded’ to make an appointment or had one made for them and got cold feet. Maybe they thought they were going to see the practice nurse and found out at the last minute it was this egotistical cow, who knows.
Her practice is just a touch below the minimum 75% uptake threshold, so no doubt they’re desperate to get a few extra bums on seats for the good of their reputation. And a little more money, of course.
The incentive payments go up in 5% stages, so good detective work, Kate, she’s obviously after victims to nudge her above that 75% threshold so she gets the extra money. Good to see her efforts coming to nothing! Average screening uptake in my city is 66%. To think that in the 1990s it was universally widespread at 80% uptake in the UK with all that bullying. It wasn’t even a thing to think about not going. Now the zealots are getting worried that nearly one third in the UK don’t go, and what effect it will have on the rest of the blind believers.
I saw the thread on twitter and noticed she got quite a lot of criticism. It got me wondering if it’s also a mobile phone thing. I was deliberately keeping my mobile phone number from my GP as I don’t want them calling me, but with the new NHS Covid App you need a mobile and your GP can get your number. Sure enough the text messages soon started coming. None of them for screening, but I had recently visited about my arthritis and realised belatedly that they had been trying to call me on my mobile. I keep it turned down when I’m at work and don’t always have it near me at home, so don’t hear it ringing. Just wondering if this reliance on mobile phones is part of the problem people don’t turn up, or am I just old?
Thanks Cat and Mouse for your heads up! And Jess yes, it’s appalling that women are even phoned at all, it’s bcoz the medics can’t understand that some might not want this test
Thanks for heads up Jess I restarted my twitter and have been having a bit of fun with Doc Leonards. ..
Yes, I’m on Twitter and have joined in the thread!
Longtime visitor and occasional commenter here. I figured this would be a good place to ask. For those of you who experience PMS, how far in advance of your period do you usually start experiencing symptoms? Do you find yourself feeling extra fearful, anxious, emotional, etc. every month or just some months? My symptoms are less physical (bloating, water retention and so forth) and more on the emotional/mood swing side of things. How do you all cope with the emotional/mood symptoms?
I suffer with bad PMS as well as extremely debilitating cramps and heavy bleeding (sorry for TMI).
My PMS symptoms range each month. Sometimes they are very intense and I am virtually inconsolable. Other times, they feel nothing more than a bad mood.
They also range in terms of the time they show up.
The PMS symptoms can show from anything from 10-3 days before a period.
I am currently “self-medicating” for these symptoms with Microgynon, which I purchase online.
I have no family history of blood clots, have a blood pressure monitor at home and was previously prescribed with this to treat these symptoms.
I get severe PMS, sometimes suicidal. Pmdd or whatever that is.
The day after ovulation, my mood goes down, but is at its worst in the 7 days before I start bleeding. Its awful. Depressed, irritated, upset – all that.
I take herbal tablets called ’30Plus’, made by Nuwoman. They work brilliantly. Takes a month or 2 to kick in one you start them. Once it starts working the difference is huge!
They’re made in new zealand, and I get them posted to Oz. No prescription needed, its just herbal.
Have been taking them for 15 years, they’re a lifesaver.
I used to be sceptical that herbal things can work, but after taking these and feeling the effect, I’m convinced (with these at least!).
Hi Oz,AQ and Susanne,
You’re symptoms sound absolutely horrible, and as for premenstrual dysphoric disorder I’ve never even heard of it before, I’ve been looking it up to try and help, and other sufferers describe it as bad
pms times ten ,but many have found that during the luteal phase of your cycle ( approx two weeks before the bleed ) there are elevated cortisol levels
Known medically as hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal
(Or hpa ) axis dysregulation.
This impacts a females production of the sex hormones estrogen and progesterone, which in turn can affect the neurotransmitter seratonin as well as seratonin receptors in the brain, it all sounds rather complex but Oz is on the right track by herbal supplements , many have said that diet changes at the start of the luteal phase which include lowering sugar and salt levels taking B6 and calcium all contribute to lessening symptoms, hope this helps .
Hugs Jules x.
Make sure you’re getting 5k vitamin D, zinc, 1200mg soy lecithin, DHA, DHEA, ginseng, magnesium, also there’s raw hemp oil (Endoca 5%, CBD/CBDa), hemp seed, and coconut oil.
The vitamin D will help stabilize mood. Dark chocolate and raw walnuts or pecans will supply natural antidepressants, coconut is high in omegs 3 which is anti-inflammatory.
Endoca 3 drops or 15mg 2x day is best anti-inflammatory you can get.
Magnesium helps with mood and spasms. DHEA you need for energy. DHA from algal oil is best blood brain nutrient plus lecithin which helps mood. Ginseng for energy.
Masturbating or having an orgasm is good as we all know. Sperm or semen also helps mood.
Sex during a period is something that’s always helped me too.
The raw Endoca product with CBDa attaches to Wuhan spike and inhibits infection. Perhaps it’s why we haven’t gotten sick.
Use organic whenever possible. Especially if you consume meat and milk.
These are the things that helped me.
I had wicked periods. Clots like liver chunks and terrible moods.
Using nutrition helped more than doctors.
Although to do it over I’d take the Pill and block my periods for months.
Actually, coconut oil is not very high in Omega-3 fatty acids. It has many more medium-chain fatty Omega-6 fatty acids. They may have benefits, although the typical western diet has too many Omega-6 and Omega-9 fatty acids. For Omega-3, fish oil has the most long and medium-chain fats. Or, eat plenty of fatty fish – such as tuna, sardines or salmon. Flaxseed is a great source for short-chain Omega-3s – which the body uses to make the medium and long-chain DHA and EPA, although rather inefficiently. It may, although it’s unproven, to have benefits of its own.
For mood, be sure you’re getting enough vitamin B-6 and folic acid.
Actually from my research hemp had the best omega 3/omega 6 ratio. Corn and peanut worst.
DHA Algal oil excellent protection for brain. My brain functions like it did when I was 16 on DHA.
Flax tastes horrid and not as good source as coconut.
I can mix coconut into almost everything. Which is why I prefer it over flax.
Coconut admittedly has some Omega-3, but is much higher in saturated fats. According to https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-004140000000000000000-4.html? it’s #162 – below fat-free French salad dressing or industrial shortening. Still, if you like coconut, it probably won’t hurt you.
Again, if you’re eating anything found in a western and many eastern diets, you’re probably too high in Omega-6 and Omega-9. So, I don’t worry much about the ratio.
For plant-based Omega-3 though, try walnut or other tree-nuts.
One thing I did find was that several of my favorite vegetables, including peppers, broccoli, spinach, and brussels sprouts are also high in Omega-3. So are (dry) beans.
Coconut does have high saturated fat. What’s interesting is my husband used to have very high cholesterol.
Now, after getting his thyroid regulated, and on this diet, his cholesterol is 159.
What he’s really accomplished is finally getting his inflammation under control.
To add. We use it raw. Mixed with cold pressed avocado and grapeseed.
Those items you mention are processed.
These oils alone won’t win the war.
We use that Endoca Raw 5% oil.
Organic whenever; especially with eggs and milk which are used sparingly.
Hey, if a regimen is working for you and yours, I won’t knock it!
It’s not that I recommend those other products (fat-free French, or industrial shortening), but there is the notation that both of those are HIGHER in Omega-3 than is coconut oil.
What I use much of the time is ground flax meal. Note though, that it WILL go rancid if it’s ground very long before you use it. Or, if it sets out at room temperature for long. A better way is to get the flax seeds (always go organic with those! Non-organic has chemicals not approved or suitable for use on food crops – it’s classified as a fiber crop (for linen) ). The best way I’ve found to grind the seeds is with a coffee grinder only used to grind seeds and such – never coffee.
This is only useful when in something that requires an oil (e.g., breads and such). When I need a little oil to saute something, I prefer either olive oil or butter.
Personally, I find the cholesterol testing is a little dubious. But, I’ll have one before I go to the doctor. I’ve got to pick my battles.
A long time ago we were told fat was the enemy. Carbs were good.
That was polar opposite to what’s really good for us.
Same with eggs.
If you eat feed lot meat you’re consuming food that’s inflammatory because of corn, fructose, and the stress this causes.
Essentially we follow a modified Mediterranean diet.
I can add coconut or the oil mix to almost anything.
It’s not that I’m against flax, it’s just that it’s not as palatable as others.
If I did decide to use butter it will be grass fed only.
Ah yes. “The diet” has changed – fats were bad. Eggs were horrible. Butter was horrible. Margarine with trans-fats was okay. Carbs good. Vegetables were to be eaten in moderation. We had that upside-down food pyramid for decades. Then, as could have been predicted, people became more and more obese. They blamed those getting fat – but they were mainly eating what they’d been told and what was available, yet never feeling satisfied. So, now eggs are a “superfood”, margarine has been reformulated to eliminate the trans-fats (unnatural and horrible for you).
Another thing that isn’t talked about are there are 2 kinds of fiber. Everybody says, “High in fiber”, but lots of that is added wood fibers! Nondietary fiber from vegetables is good “to keep you regular”, but it’s the dietary fiber that goes in and filters out large molecules such as LDL (bad) cholesterol. That’s high in brans and many whole grains.
Corn is not the demon it’s made out to be, unless someone has an allergy to corn (amazingly common). In that case, it’s not the mix of Omegas, it’s the corn itself.
I’m following a diabetic diet – with meat. I live in a county with 5,000 people and 500,000 cattle! Much of it comes from locally-raised cattle. There was or is a distribution problem with eggs, and my local store has been getting eggs from a couple of local farmers – or their kids doing chickens for 4H projects. AFAIC, all that means is that I get more nutritious eggs that are fresher and taste better. For grain, I’ve been getting organic whole rye flour or whole wheat from a co-op – in 50 lb bags. They ran out out of wheat flour, last year, but this year they repackaged much of their other products (with lots of people stuck at home) but they have the 50 and 100 lb bags.
You’re getting your food as it was meant to be.
Fresh.
I don’t know if eggs are a superfood. Fred Dryer while playing football ate a huge number of them. No lasting bad effects.
We do eat corn but avoid the refined corn products when possible.
Where do you live?
Where do I live? I live in a tiny little town of just over 100 people in a “flyover state” in the middle of the US. One can legally have up to 5 chickens in town! A couple of my neighbors do have a few chickens in their yards. There is a feed lot maybe 250 meters from me.
BTW, one big practice is when hay/corn/wheat/etc has been harvested, cattle will be turned into the empty field. The harvesting machines are not perfect, and there are stalks – and the cattle can get food from this – nearly “feedlot rations” from the way they come back. Yet, they are called “grassfed cattle” when they are sold on the market. Well, yeah, technically corn and wheat are grasses.And, the cattle put manure in the field which will be fertilizer for next year’s crop.
When I see cattle on a range, where they have many square miles, they will often lay in very close proximity – just as close as in the feedlots – by their own choice. Cattle make friends. Among dairy cattle, being among friends while being milked by machine increases their productivity! http://nectar.northampton.ac.uk/6466/
Feedlots are cleaned of manure every few hours “around the clock”. It is piled in the center, and feedlot cattle will appear to play “king of the hill” with this pile. Calves play even more: My little black car will often be chased by dozens of black calves when I’m driving on lightly-traveled roads. 🙂
BTW, do you know there are no universally-recognized definitions for what is “organic”? California has encoded definitions, and it means something if it’s “organic” under California law. Often, it’s the same stuff – after all, one can use the definition of organic used in chemistry – it contains carbon. Even if a farmer is only using organic products on their field, if their neighbors spray some chemicals, or even if someone long upwind or upstream does, it can get on the “organic” products. As many chemicals as are in the environment, it would take decades to eliminate it from even the most remote locations on earth.
Hi Jules,
That specific dysregulation you mention? I had no idea about that. I’ll do some research for it, thanks!!!
Hugs,
Oz.
Hi cat&mouse,
You should become a dietitian that’s an impressive list of helpful information and it shows that we are all here for each other, the way it’s going
Who needs dr’s.
Hugs Jules x.
By the way, in the post today was my reminder that I hadn’t taken up my offer of breast screening a few weeks ago. It says at the top in big letters that my surgery supports breast screening. They don’t send a leaflet these days, only a weblink and QR code on the letter to download the leaflet, which means you’re highly unlikely to see the fleeting reference to harms and risks and also the sentence about opting out. It’s gone into the recycling now anyway.
Hi there all, so i spent some time this morning researching. i am appalled at how the medical community treats “women healthcare”. All my experiences pushed aside, for one the cdc says that paps should start at 21 years old. Now, what if that particular person has no prior sexual activity- then you use a big speculum. Well that can be processed as rape especially afterwards. Not to mention that even them can have false positives, and then they possibly destroy their healthy vagina for nothing. I also looked into the reasons for not going, not one of them says that they don’t consent, and it all attributes to being busy. Not consenting is a reason to not go, because of the false positives it is a reason to not go. ugh.
in my personal experience, in my first pap, it hurt so much and the doctor doing it didn’t even use a small/pedriac speculum. i felt like rape afterwards. Even at my last exam in 2020 (bleh!), i felt like i was raped afterwards. meanwhile, i had sexual activity and that feels fine and better. it also annoys me that no doctor wants to follow the guidelines of every 3-5 years of testing. not that i want to get tested again because i felt pressured and harrassed at that i didn’t follow up. it also would be more comfortable.
Speaking about comfortable: personally, i am confortable getting a blood and urine test to test for stds. according to this site, blood tests and urine samples are an accurate way to diagnosis the std. However, in my research not one word about that option is mentioned! WHY? people who are modest, had bad experiences, are not active, probably would opt for the non-invaisive option. WHY not give people the non-invaisive option?
i really don’t get it.
Plus to boot, back at my last pap- i got an ASCUS with HPV status, and they refered me to a colosophy, i said no because i was already aware of the risks because of sites like this and women against stirupps. But researching this– oh ask your doctor- no mention of any risks of either the pap or the colosophy. i researched all on the CDC site: http://www.cdc.gov .
First, your possible hpv status. Get a Delphi Screener or the “wick” self tester that’s being advertised over there. You’re in UK right? Do that before anything.
ONLY IF POSITIVE do anything further. If not, tell them to kindly go F*** themselves.
IF you’re hpv positive? Look at every holistic cure. See what Leroy Nicholas DC does in Chicago.
And, tell your doctor you have a cold sore or recurring cold sore. Get an Rx of Valtrex or Zovirax.
These are anti-virals that work on herpes type virus’.
You’ve heard me talk about Epstein Barr Virus that gave my husband his Hashimoto’s Disease and his NHL right? That’s also a herpes virus.
These two meds block viral replication.
My husband’s oncologist has him taking this med to block EBV which also keeps his NHL in check.
Do NOT ever consent to LEEP. It’s an amputation. Your cervix will never recover. You will have problems carrying a baby to term, lubrication issues, and forget deep orgasms. Many of these lead to hysterectomy as the problems after such are common. We’re talking a few mm between amputation and forever discharge and pain which necessitates radical surgery.
Stay away from low income clinics. These will have the newby doctors. They are most likely to want to do things to you that aren’t necessary. Because they need experience to gain their license.
Go to affluent area clinic if possible. They won’t be as pushy there.
Now regarding the speculum. My last pap was 2010 before I did the Trovagene Urine Based HPV Test. I’ve talked about that enough here. It was 93% accurate using PCR tech and antibody capture. It’s gone; discontinued. The company is now called Cardiff Oncology I think. The test was never advertised and few knew about it.
In contrast, pap scrape is 50% accurate.
I call it scrape because your cervix is scraped to drawing blood. The smear is when what’s taken is smeared on a slide.
The slides are rated by a computer algorithm. Rarely do human eyes diagnose.
As I said, regarding speculum size. I have lichen sclerosis. We have to be careful during sex or I tear at bottom, top, or both.
My husband requested a pediatric speculum. The doctor had one out that would be for a woman having had 6 kids.
If you’ve had kids via C-section; that info is vital.
Do not allow a metal speculum. These are soaked in a 1% bleach solution. Not autoclaved.
Wash your hands thoroughly. Especially after urinating. And make sure the toilet is clean too.
HPV survives outside. It can be transmitted from coat hangers, door handles, the table since the flimsy tissue paper isn’t any kind of a barrier.
Hope this helps some.
Hi there Cat & Mouse, i’m in the USA, so i am not sure if the Delphi Screener is an option here, or it may be but i would have to fight to get it. However, i am looking for a way to test for STDS as well as HPV. As for helping get rid of the HPV, i did start multivitamins with most of the vitamins and minerals that stop the hpv infection. that’s about all i did tho. i did see something on other website about dousing your vagina with a yogurt thing, but i’m sort of scared of trying it because i never douched before.
Thanks for the other tips- had no idea that HPV survives outside.
As for the computer algoritum, my last pap said it was reviewed by a person. it says both screened by and pathologist reviewed. Luckily i know about this because i requested my records from the place since i don’t consent anymore. Plus it causes constant worry- i was getting harrassed about not going for a colosophy, which is the follow up procedure. you are right when it is amputiation, i looked it up once.
But like why don’t other gynos tell you how to cure HPV naturally? i had to look it all up myself. am not sure if it’s gone but i haven’t experienced any sympotoms.
btw thanks so much for posting about dr. nicholas! that is very interesting! i should buy his book besides, even if the hpv cleared at least i would be healthy overall!
Search HPV naturopath protocol. I got this excellent result
https://avivaromm.com/natural-approaches-hpv/
Thanks so much that is useful information as well!
Hi ladies,
When I was new here one of my first posts was that I had a concern that at the end of the pandemic there would be a major push by the screening services to try and recoup their target figures.
THIS iS IT !
With Jo’s week of campaigning in January and barely a week or two break before the NHS month long campaign and I’ve no doubt another one or two campaign’s will follow in the later parts of the year, it struck me just how desperate they are, I think that even they see this as a last roll of the dice, if after all this persecution the target figures do drop again there is simply nowhere for them to go, I think the next one or two years could prove decisive .
I was watching the dog programme with Paul O’Grady last night when in the middle of it came the ads and the vile cervical screening advert came on. I made wretching sounds and pretended to be sick and my Husband just fell about laughing. He said to me to go and get screened, I gave him a V sign which made him laugh even more. Its pathetically sad both the campaign and the advert, although the hysteria continues on Twitter.
Jess
As I’ve mentioned before, I only watch streaming channels and catch-up TV.
Haven’t watched ITV, Channel 4 etc in years so imagine my wrath when I saw the advert during a break on the Sky movies channel 😡
Jules, they had to admit during the pandemic that smear tests were not so necessary after all and could easily wait. I’m sure that was an eye opener for many of the blind believers. The spell may have been broken, and the secret is out. Now they’ve got to re-convince them that smear tests just can’t wait and are so vital. Be interesting to see how many flock back.
Educate the husbands.
A house divided falls.
Husbands not taking this seriously need to be made to take it as seriously as we do.
The results from my husband are dramatic in this regards.
Hi everyone.
So I’ve frequently visited this wonderful site anonymously for a few years now and I want to finally just make an account on here. Where would I need to make an account? I’m a huge advocate for this and I even have an account made on the site titled “Women Against Stirrups” on Pro Boards (which I also highly recommend for you all, too. VERY informing site), so I would like to finally make an account here as well 🙂
This isn’t gynecology related but I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts on colonoscopies. I had one scheduled for 3/14 that I just cancelled. Reading the instructions for the prep made me shudder – it involves guzzling large quantities of laxatives. The procedure itself sounds more like an operation than a screening test. Gastroenterologists in the US are among the highest paid doctors, largely from performing these procedures, so likely the huge push for them is financially driven. I’m well past the recommended age to have one, but think I’m going to look into non-invasive options.
Search: over diagnosis of colon cancer or harms of colonoscopy. You get some interesting articles.
https://doctorschierling.com/blog/routine-colonoscopies-and-the-relationship-to-overdiagnosis
I know someone who had a routine colonoscopy recommended because the poo test showed blood. This person had hemorrhoids. Also some tests give a false positive when a person eats certain foods such as red meats, broccoli or a false negative if the person takes a certain amount of vitamin C supplements. This person had some harmless polyps removed. A few weeks later they received a letter from the hospital that the scope used was not properly cleaned and they could have contracted hepatitis, HIV or other infections or parasites.
Very interesting info, Anonymous. Thank you for posting it 🙂
Colonoscopy is a catch all like pap scrape.
In the case with gallstones the medical provider should have known from where symptoms were coming from. Recommending a colonoscopy was bs.
Just a way to scare the patient into testing.
An ultrasound would have sufficed.
That was me who posted thanking Anonymous for posting the interesting info – fyi.
Hi Judy, My husband was “offered” this about 4 years ago when he suddenly started losing weight. The NHS consultant he saw here in the UK tried to speak down to him and stressed that it was “very important” he had this test. When he said he didn’t want he almost sneered at him. My Husband asked to see his proof-of-qualification and the consultant didn’t have it with him. My hubby said he would be happy to have a 3D body scan and if this showed up anything of concern he would then consider a colonoscopy, he closed the appointment by thanking the consultant for his time but added he felt that he (the consultant) didn’t know what he was talking about and said he would be seeking a second opinion.
Needless to say they made an appointment for him anyway (I am getting a sense of DeJa Vu) and send him packs of bowel prep and laxatives. He cancelled the appointment and 4 years on is just the same as before.
Jess
My husband was referred for one some years ago, before either of us was anywhere near the screening age (60) in the UK. He had stomach pains. He said it was extremely unpleasant. I didn’t go with him as didn’t think it was that invasive, and regret it to this day. He was very upset by the whole procedure and came home quite shaken. Afterwards, they did a scan and discovered the nature of his problem: gall stones. He was very cross they hadn’t done the scan first which would’ve saved him having to have the colonoscopy. His advice is to ask for all non-invasive tests first before agreeing to have the colonoscopy. He’s since refused 2 bowel screening tests, as doesn’t want to go through it again, and I’ve refused 1.
Apparently, they pass the tube with the camera on it four feet into the intestines. So it’s really quite invasive. The screening age in the US was recently lowered to 45, supposedly because colon cancer is on the rise among younger people. But I think the old $$$ played a part (probably a big part) in the change. Ada, your husband’s advice is spot on to ask for non-invasive tests first.
Non invasive tests include CT w contrast, ultrasound, and swallowing a camera.
Judy, Yes, I’ve thought through colonoscopies too – mostly posted about them in a now-defunct Yahoo group on a gynecology topic.
I’ve never had one. I don’t plan to except, perhaps, as a diagnostic test. For the same reasons you’ve mentioned, it seems more like a surgery than it does a screening test. There is about a 2% risk of bowel perforation from this procedure. Also, there have been numerous substantiated reports of “single use” items for colonoscopies being re-used for years – without so much as cleaning! The risk of infection would appear to be enormous. On the guzzling laxatives, they’ve also been telling us for years not to do that, and the risks involved. Especially if you’ve got blood sugar issues or if you’ve got something else that requires a medication to be taken on time, this could be a problem. Having had probable food poisoning, and having passed out and landing in the ER from dehydration, this would seem to be a risk of that type of reaction. Additionally, the “waking sedation”, and the drug given to produce that, Versed, has a troubling side effect profile – such as short term memory difficulties for months afterward.
There have been numerous cases of people who have alleged, and charged, their gastroenterologist with sexual assault. For instance, https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/01/10/trial-underway-for-regina-doctor-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-five-patients.html or https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2020/01/14/south-fort-myers-doctor-loses-license-after-admitting-sexual-assault-patients/4465104002/
There are risks and benefits to this procedure. One thing is to know your risks – of having or not having the procedure. See https://knowyourchances.cancer.gov/custom_charts.php to find your risk of getting or dying of colon cancer based on your age, race, and gender. Other things can modify your risk, such as others in your family having had it.
I’ve personally known several people who went in from one of these procedures, ended up in the hospital afterward, I don’t know why – bowel perforation or infection is my guess, and they did not come out alive. Besides being a survivor of sexual abuse, including sodomy, I’m partly afraid that I will fight back against it – under the “waking sedation”, and find myself spending the rest of my life in prison for assault on a healthcare worker. One can have this procedure without such waking sedation, which might be somewhat uncomfortable
Hi there, i’m too young for a colonoscopy but my parents had a couple, and it seems kind of scary. i’d read their prep instructions and it is so ridiculous! For one, all you can eat is jello and soft foods, 2- you have to go to the bathroom alot to clean out your bowels. 3- you can;t eat nothing on the day of your test until afterwards… fourtly, and maybe this is a problem too in the field of gynology: but they don’t tell you that it is a screening test, and the doctors that my parents go to seem to not care about the patient. my dad asked if he needed a colonoscopy, and they were nasty about refusing it. he ended up going through with it, but to be honest, look into non-invaisive options as well.
If you consent, this is how you deal with the cleanout.
Get some low calorie lemonade. Chill it and mix with the solution to your desire.
Drink lots of water to chase it. The water is what seems to activate it in your bowels.
Wow Jess, good for your husband for not falling for the scare tactic. These doctors play on people’s fear of cancer to talk them into having invasive procedures and then get bent out of shape when their tactics don’t work. Colonoscopies are not a risk-free procedure – sometimes too much aired gets pumped into the colon and a puncture occurs resulting in a serious injury. Supposedly this is a rare occurrence, but there was a study done a few years ago that concluded patients are eight times more likely to be harmed by a colonoscopy then helped.
Not properly cleaned ass scopes happen more than you think.
Paying minimum wage isn’t the greatest thing when lives matter.
Hi ladies,
With all the terrible news coming out of Europe over the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it seems that there is little interest in the smear campaign at the moment, British politicians have said that they are prepared to take 200,000 refugees mainly women and children, it’s a wonder the screening brigade are not already at the airports waiting to hand out leaflets for screening they are that pathetic.
Hugs Jules x.
Once here no doubt the screening buzzards will begin circling.
Good morning everyone,
I have just read an interesting article in this mornings Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/hpv-vaccine-recipients-may-only-need-one-smear-test-in-their-lives-expert-says
Que hysteria from the mass screening brigade! Just one smear test in a lifetime isnt enough!
Jess,
They expect us to believe that?
So, are we to believe hpv isn’t human engineered like Wuhan and won’t mutate?
Or that uncircumcised migrants won’t import a new variant?
Why then all the continuing hype about screening?
Ah yes, more exciting predictions from Peter Sasieni, the Mystic Meg of the scientific world.
I like the language they use Jess, we still apparently “ need” smears!
Hi Everyone,
I haven’t posted on here for a few days but you might remember back in February I went with Daughters friend Hannah when she had her first smear. I got a hysterical call from her last Thursday saying she had been sent a letter saying she has cervical cancer. I managed to calm her down and explained that its highly unlikely that she has cervical cancer but it would appear that when she had her smear she has been identified as having abnormal cells. The letter she has had confirmed she has an appointment at the local hospital on March 29th for a “routine colposcopy” then finally on Saturday a letter arrived saying her cervical screening had identified potentially abnormal cells and that she would shortly be invited for a routine colposcopy (the letters crossed in the post).
She has asked me to go with her again, I have said I would even though the idea of going in there with her makes me feel physically sick. She has asked me if she should go or not and I said that its her decision and I will go with her if she decided to go. I really could have done without this as at 24 she seems really down about this and was going to opt out of the screening program. I will let you know what she decided to do.
Sorry, I should add its Michelle here posting above. I was tired yesterday morning and got my name and email in the wrong box!
OMG Michelle poor girl. Let’s hope for her sake its a false positive.
Jess
Hi Michelle,
She doesn’t need a colposcopy! She needs a repeat pap smear in a few months time. Smears at her age often have abnormal cells because that’s normal!
Just about anything could cause abnormal cells.
Please don’t let her do that colposcopy, its ridiculous. They’ll be happily cutting bits out of her cervix (LEEP, cold knife) probably without anaesthetic.
For gods sake, tell her to forget the colposcopy and repeat the smear in 3 months time. I guarentee it will be clear.
If she does that colposcopy she’ll be traumatised for life and stuck on the gyno gravy train of non-stop surveillance and procedures forever. Don’t do it!!!
Argh! One smear test does not mean that anyone has cervical cancer! I think the misstatements in such letters are the reason that so many believe they were “saved” from CC, that it’s so rampant, except for these smears.
Yes, getting on the colposcoppy/biposy/leep, cutting, drilling and tearing, mostly without anesthesia merry go round is a great way to get a customer for life.
Hi Michelle,
First of all calm down, “potentially abnormal cells”
Is not cancer, many girls/women
who are or have been “active ”can have abnormal cell readings on their test ,but this is very often transient as the bodies own immune system clears it, this is the reason that they upped the screening age to 25 as too many women under this age had
abnormal cells registered with this inaccurate test and went on to be over treated, which is what will probably happen to Hannah if she attends her appointment as they will almost certainly take a biopsy, if this uncommon cancer takes between 10 and 20 years to develop I’m sure she could retest in another year for hpv and find that it’s gone, it sounds like she has taken in the propaganda they dish out, and now carries the fear around, remember that they even have to put on the propaganda leaflets that there is a chance of the test resulting in false negatives or
false positives, this is because of its inaccuracies , and for legal reasons,
I haven’t been able to engage in the site for a while either as I’ve been busy at work and Annette has signed us both up for two nights a week packing clothes and toys for the Ukraine refugees
it’s a worthwhile cause but I’m missing an awful amount of chianti time.
Hugs Jules x.
Come back in 3 months.
Cells naturally abnormal at her age.
This should tell what BS this test is.
If the test was legit they would know when to administer it.
So one day the test gives a false positive? But another woman near her age with abnormal results would be seen as legit results?
50% efficacy means a coin toss.
3 months from now her body won’t have changed either.
This isn’t like buying beer.
One day you can’t but come your 21st birthday suddenly you can.
Get her nutrition in order.
Obtain an antiviral.
Do not pap scrape.
Get a passive home test for hpv.
Sounds similar to my results, i got a letter stating that they wanted me to come in October! i didn’t go at all. They kept bullying me and i kept getting letters to call to follow up. Due to this harassment, i still don’t trust doctors.
Look this up. Naga Thota MD convicted of molesting patients for drugs. This happened about 10 years ago. He’s about halfway through his sentence. He used to be my pain doctor. My husband always does with me. He’s first saw my cervix after our marriage 30+yrs ago.
He felt Dr Thota was attempting to groom me. Thota was also very pushy about me being alone in the room without my husband. Last, he wanted me to show up within 30 minutes after he called, alone, to p/u my Schedule II Rx. Well, I can’t drive…
He was having patients show up late at night. He’d drug them, molest, then send them home hours later with their new Rx.
Took the dense district attorney months and months to believe the patients/victims and act on it.
If you or I did that, the first time we’d be arrested. That’s disgusting.
The other doctor I almost saw, we had the intake packet ready, was Jeffrey Abrams MD. An endocrinologist; very well respected. He liked “volunteering” at a local low income clinic.
There he took pictures. Juveniles, adults, various forms of undress, lots of vaginas, even a woman masturbating in stirrups video. He had over 1500 vagina pictures on his phone.
Don’t want to think about the purpose of that… He claimed it was to be used to assist at UCSD med school.
The experiences, the memories, they don’t go away.
I understand what you mean by trust issues.
We know women who showed up with a cold and would be talked into a pelvic exam. The first we heard of this was over 40 years ago before I had to worry about these things.
But, we all know a woman today who is enduring the same harassment.
The medical perverts from yesteryear trained the medical perverts we have today. These will in turn “train” the next generation of medical perverts.
You ever wonder how many times a doctor masturbates in a day? Male and female.
Thanks for your replies ladies, I am calm (i think 🙂 ) its Hannah who was upset. She tried cancelling the appointment this morning and got the usual high pressure sales technique as to how important it is to attend the colposcopy examination so I think she is going to go, although I have the best part of three weeks to persuade her otherwise. x
Hi Michelle, this situation is so upsetting. I think it’s important Hannah really understand that the entire field is about breaking boundaries with her. They use the term “barriers” but it’s about breaking boundaries..breaking into women’s bodies, breaking down their minds with fear. Now that Hannah has experienced this both physically and mentally now maybe it will click what’s going on.
Sorry follow up comment… I think many young girls automatically trust medicine, as we’re groomed to do. But here they’ve manufactured a problem that they conveniently have a solution for. I hope she is able to really connect with the idea that the pap and follow up procedures are not the product, she is. She wouldn’t accept being used like this with any other person right? So why now in this situation?
I’m tempted to agree with Ozphoenix. Has Hannah had the HPV vaccine? She sounds about the same age as my daughter, who had to have 3 doses, only for them to decide a year later that 2 was enough. If she has had the vaccine, I would be very suspect that there is anything there at all. I know they’ve said that the vaccine doesn’t protect against ALL types of HPV, but the results so far have shown a good deal more cross protection than they anticipated, so the rarer types are being prevented even if the vaccine isn’t specifically licenced for it. This seems to be terribly bad luck. I seem to remember reading once that there would be a rise in colposcopy visits as the vaccinated cohorts entered the screening rounds, but can’t remember what the reason for this was.
Hang on, I thought the NHS did primary HPV screening these days?
Have they screened her for HPV? Or have they just told her she has “abnormal cells”?
Have they disclosed whether her results are CIN 1, 2 or 3?
Hi Everyone, I spoke to her last night, I havent seen the letter myself but I understand that they found HPV and when they investigated further the found low grade dyskariosis not sure if I have spelt it correctly. My main concern last night was telling her she certainly doesnt have cancer and there is a less that 0.5% chance she will have it in the future.
To follow up, that’s the annoying thing that they won’t tell you, even in the US: abnormal cells aren’t cancer! Sure there is a chance that it may turn into Cancer but it’s so low… ugh 😦 To boot, they don’t even admit the test is inaccurate. it’s like having a woman’s body is a disease, and it is not! reminds me of when i went to the dermolatologist and was diagnosed with vitalo. oh it’s cancer! meanwhile it is not and ine can use cream for it. i don’t tho
I have just seen this on the Daily Fail website. If this test is introduced I wonder if men will be pressurised/coerced/bullied/persuaded/hard sold the test:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10588257/New-prostate-test-safer-accurate.html
Kind regards,
Jess.
That’s interesting that it’s being discussed as a safer alternative due to eliminating false positives. I don’t remember ever hearing mentions of safety from false results from cervical screening. In fact it’s the opposite, the “safety” is supposed to be obtained through the follow up burning/cutting, etc to eliminate abnormal cells. Although I think the line between eliminating/removing abnormal cells and female organs is very thin and confusing. I suppose the classical view is that the female organs themselves are the disease.
I agree with you – women’s organs are treated as a pathology. I’m not sure much has changed since the days of ‘hysteria’ when it was believed that the womb was running around the body and women who practised herbal medicine were burned as witches.
It’s a minefield isn’t it? Michelle did Hannah’s letter say her HPV status?
My 59 yr old colleague, confidently monogamous, had a lump down below and the hospital doc took a smear even though lump had gone by time the hospital appointment rolled round
Her results were HPV negative but abnormal cells found and her letter said she’d be “invited “ for colposcopy
She asked my advice and I said if she was so worried to go, but to remember she’s negative and not fall for any hard sell. She turned up for the colposcopy where they said since she was negative they wouldn’t be doing it!! Total fiasco! She said she won’t be attending her last smear when “invited “
Let us know what Hannah decides and I’m thinking of her.. and you!
Very sorry to hear Hannah’s news but this is the reason countries like the Netherlands don’t start cervical screening until the age of 30. There are so many false alarms under this age, which clear up by themselves, but it frightens the life out of young women who become convinced that they’re destined to get this cancer. Who wouldn’t be terrified at this age? It marks them for life and puts them on a conveyor belt of procedures they cannot get off from. Low grade dyskariosis is CIN1, which has barely any significance at all. Before HPV testing came in, a CIN1 smear would put you onto a repeat test every 6 months until the HPV had cleared and a negative test came back. With HPV testing into the equation this happens with low grade HPV, but not if it’s types 16, 18, which refers you to colposcopy. Even then, it is unlikely there will be any treatment. Unfortunately, this has resulted in increases of colposcopy referrals of about 13% more than under the old test. It’s very sad that H is having to go through all this. So unnecessary, but I fear she may never get off their books after having this totally unnecessary positive result.
We’ve just had two high profile deaths in Australia from heart attacks – Shane Warne and a female politician.
I hope it shakes up the health system and we have more focus on the worst health issues like this, and –
…who am I kidding, a leopard doesn’t change its spots. Pap smears will always be the first, middle and last thing on a doctors agenda for women.
Heart attacks? Heart screening? Meh.
(Why yes, I am being sarcastic)
I did try to see a cardiologist once, when I turned 40. He insisted on doing a manual breast exam first.
When I said I wasn’t seeing him about my breasts, and I wouldn’t be having that, he refused to see me.
His receptionist was also very rude when I said ‘no’ to the breast exam. She couldn’t believe I was saying no! She acted like I’d just called her mother a dirty word. It was so ridiculous.
Our family on my mothers side has a terrible history of heart problems, starting in their 40’s.
Well, I tried. So much for that. I guess boobs are more important than heart attacks.
i have a problem with my heart where one of the arteries or veins go the wrong way, so i’ve been to the cardiologist too. One of them that i have been to also asked to examine my boobs, and i refused as well. they were okay about it, but like my boobs aren’t my heart.Went to another doctor, Last time i got an EKG, they refuse to let me wear a wire proof bralette, and i was shirtless and cold during the exam. it was quick, but certainly not fun either. That doctor was annoyed that i wanted to find someone else.. well i researched that one can wear a bralette as long as it is wire free. smh. You know, it’s annoying because you think that they would try to make things as pleasant as possible?!?!?!
Ah, but it’s not as CONVENIENT as possible! If they don’t have to work around some silly woman’s bralette, they can get done quicker and do an EKG on someone else. The more they can do, the more money they make – for the technician as well as for the machine. Time is money! So what if she’s cold? If they can throw in a breast exam while they’re about it, it might be an added perk for them while adding just a little time.
Call me a cynic.
Hi oz,
The average heart beats 100,000 times per day, which pumps around 8 pints of blood continuously around the circulation system re oxygenating muscles/organs etc,
which it gets from the lungs, which in turn keeps us alive pretty unimportant really when they can have a little play with your boobies instead.
Hugs Jules x.
Good morning Ladies,,
I hope everyone is well. It looks like we all survived “Cervical Screening Hysteria Month” and fortunatly I only saw that vile advert on TV once. Now its officially over it looks like this hasnt registered with Jo’s Tosh though as they have put a number of new videos on Youtube overnight. Once again presented by the patronising nurse who applies eye liner with a pallet knife. I am reaching for the sick bag already….
Jess
Get every urine incontinent 80 yr old to sign up. Over and over at every clinic.
The program will fold up overnight.
Hi everyone, It’s been quiet on here for the past few days . My Daughters friend Hannah is still going for her colposcopy on Tuesday at 11am, and she had been inundated with text messages from the NHS confirming her appointment. Yesterday a leaflet dropped through the letterbox explaining the procedure. From Sunday nigh she has to start “preparing” her vagina for the procedure, not sex, tampons, creams, douches, menstrual cups etc. She doesn’t want to go to the appointment but feels she has to. I will let you know how it goes on Tuesday after the appointment.
Michelle.
Good luck with her, Michelle.
I think its totally unnecessary, she doesn’t have to submit to the system. A repeat smear in 3 months time would be highly likely to be normal.
Please tell her she has the right to say ‘stop’ or change her mind at any time. Empasise that. And make sure if you’re there, and she starts saying no, and they start rabbiting on saying, ‘Almost there, not much longer’, instead of stopping, that you jump on them and make them stop. Sadly, we all know what they’re like…
Also, if you turn up and you have a male doctor? That would be a huge ‘NO’ from me, at any rate.
I really wish she wasn’t doing this. It’s so unnecessary and traumatic.
Hi Michelle,
I agree with what Ozphoenix says, remember she is entitled to say no. Even if you go in and talk to the Drs first there is no requirement to even proceed with the colposcopy. Let us know how you get on
Have to agree with others on here. Such a terrible ordeal for your young friend to have to go through. I think it’s a postcode lottery what kind of treatment she can expect. Depends entirely on the doctor’s view as it’s all so subjective. There will be some, who’ll say there’s nothing to be done here and send her away, or they’ll be others who think it’s best to treat, no matter how small. Had a browse through some of the Mumsnet posts and all seem to have got different levels of treatment for the same thing. It’s a dreadful waste, and the psychlogical harm has never been considered a factor in this pathetic programme.
Hi Michelle,
You’re right it has been quiet on the site, in my case it’s almost the end of the tax year so my work rate has gone through the roof, and helping out at a Ukrainian aid relief centre is taking up a lot of my time, but I still check the site most nights.
I’m sorry that Hannah feels the need to attend her appointment, and I’m not sure that they will let you be present during her procedure which means she will be very vulnerable to their persuasion techniques if they get her alone which could be traumatic if they take the see and treat approach, and don’t forget to remind her that she has the right of preference for a female doctor as well as a legal right to consent to or against treatment, and if it’s a teaching hospital NO F- ——G STUDENTS observing, I will be thinking of her on the day.
Hugs Jules x.
Well said, Jules. Good on you for helping out at the relief centre. It’s a nightmare for them over there, so awful. I wish we could make Putin go away. :’-(
I’m back on tonight but have been following events in Ukraine very closely. Cannot get my head around what is happening in Europe in this day and age 😥
Hi oz,
We don’t do that much, just four hours on the evening two nights a week I wish we could do more the boxes we packed last night were mainly underwear and sanitary products these poor girls and women have had to flee their homes , cities, country with just the clothes they had on and have been travelling to the safety
Of neighbouring countries for days I just can’t imagine how this must be for them, let’s hope it all ends soon.
Hugs Jules x.
Just checked my phone for new text messages and found this:
“We’ve been informed you did not attend your breast screening appointment. Please contact your local breast screening clinic to re-arrange this”.
It’s a no reply message so have emailed them and reminded them that this is an option and a choice, and women are entitled to make their own decisions about attending or not. Told them the surgery should not be supporting breast screening as it has been condemned by a Cochrane review and to remove my name from their screening list. If I’m going to be pestered I will opt out.
High five, Adawells! Great reply.
Hi Ada,
If I were you I’d just opt out, we get enough hassle over our other lady parts and don’t need further
harassment over our boobs as well, I do my own checks pretty regularly , and either have a bath or a shower daily so I think I would notice if something was not normal or different and needed to be looked at by a medic without them demanding that I do so to fall in line with their precious program.
Hugs Jules x.
Hey all!! Unrelated to pap testing but I need some advice. Husband and I took a bath together for the first time in forever, and of course things got hot and heavy rather soon. We’ve done it in the shower a bunch of times, but never in a bath tub until now lol.
My pH has never been thrown off after the fun in the shower, but we used a bath fizzer, and our parts were definitely underwater the whole time. Will this mess me up at all? I’ve only had one yeast infection in my whole life, when I was on really strong antibiotics after getting my wisdom teeth out. We had fun of course, but now I’m worried that it might throw off my pH, heh.
I know I will not go to a doctor of course because I ain’t having them look at my parts, but if anything happens I’ll want to treat it naturally at home. I’ve really never had constant issues with my vaginal health to be honest. Some people for some reason just have constant UTIs and yeast infections, and I’ve hardly had any at all. Just 2 UTIs ever and one yeast infection only from strong antibiotics. Maybe if I’ve had a generally healthy vagina my whole life I might not have anything to worry about, but I wanna know what you guys think. I’d appreciate it!
Bath products can unbalance your vaginal PH, making a yeast or bacterial infection more likely. However, it’s not certain that it will. A douche with a small amount of vinegar should re-balance it though.
If you decide to have more fun in the bathtub, I’d suggest skipping the bath fizzer. Or, you can “treat” it right after with a similar mild-vinegar douche.
Hi anonymous,
As long as you aren’t having
bath fun too many times a week I really can’t see much of a problem happening ,the vagina is pretty resilient contrary to what the medical profession would have you believe,
So enjoy !
Hugs Jules x.
Forgot.
For bladder infection try fresh pomegranate juice and fresh blueberry juice. Mixed. You can dilute with water too.
Cranberry juice cocktail as it’s sold usually has high fructose corn syrup which aggravates bladder infections.
Hi ladies! Oh dear it looks like help us help you hasn’t died and gone away! The town I live in, an extremely deprived one in SE England, has been awarded extra cash to persuade its women to “take a potentially life saving test “! U guessed it, a smear! Apparently only 59%of our women take the test, with , of course, embarrassment, fear of pain and precious negative experiences being 3 major reasons why it’s so low (I can empathise with the last two reasons!) We also have a large BAME population who are also “harder to reach”
Strategies include the ever present screening person at surgeries , who rounds up defaulters, and also all staff, clinical and non clinical, being trained and up to date to answer any questions worried women might throw at them, I’m guessing how do you opt out won’t be mentioned….! Why they can’t just leave us alone…
Interesting comment Kat, Wonder why they dont get the message that 41% of our women dont want this test, and let the matter drop!
Jess it’s actually depressing! The strategies they’ll b using aren’t new, they did a survey to find out why we don’t go, and the solutions never worked before… having screening status flagged up at first point of contact, ringing women, assuring us the nurse seen it all before, making sure all staff are trained in latest methods of harassment, extra out of hours clinics so we can have our smears… honestly our town has so many problems, high levels of poverty, substandard housing, above average number of kids on free school meals, large number of street homeless. .. and they get a grant for this, to police vaginas! ? Blergh
Hi everyone,
I am finally home it’s been a long morning, from leaving home at 9:30 and a Costa stop on the way. The appointment was for 11am and we eventually got in at 11:35. Sitting in the waiting room we got some funny looks as Hannah insisted I was with her. We got called in and I got up to go with her and the nurse told me I had to stay where I was. Hannah then said if I wasn’t allowed in, she wouldn’t be going in either so I was allowed in with the nurse giving me filthy looks. We go in and were greeted by a MALE doctor (to be fair we assumed that it would be a female Dr and didn’t request a female). He started going on about her recent smear and that there was a trace of HPV with mild Dyskaryosis and that it was very mild and would probably clear up on its own accord eventually, however he wanted to “take a look at it just to be sure”. All along we found him to be very patronising. He babbled on a bit more and said it was time to go through to the colposcopy room and gave Hannah a gown and told her to undress and put the gown on.
She was very hesitant by now and she eventually said that she wasn’t going to do this. The Dr asked why and she replied “Because I don’t feel comfortable with having this procedure, certainly not by you as you strike me as a pervy old man”! I had to hide the giggles and sit cross legged, although the Dr had a face like thunder by now and said he had never been spoken to like that in over 25 years of carrying out colposcopies! It was decided it would be best if we sat out in the waiting room until she had calmed down.
Eventually another nurse came out and said that she would carry out the procedure, fine and another argument started until I was allowed to go in with her. We went in and once again Hannah was asked to undress and put a gown on. She refused to wear the gown (what is it with forcing people to wear degrading hospital gowns?? ) as she wanted to keep her own clothes on and laid down on the bed with her feet in the stirrups with her jacket covering her.
I have had two kids but when I saw the size of the speculum she was going to use, it even made me wince, although the nurse explained that she had to use a large speculum to dilate the vagina enough to see the cervix clearly. Hannah said this was the worse pain she has ever felt, and the nurse was blobbing her cervix with various liquids which she said stung like mad, another smear was taken as well. The Nurse said the changes were nothing it was almost certain that they would clear up on their own but she offered to burn them off there and then which Hannah declined, she also wanted to do a punch biopsy which was also declined so Hannah was free to get dressed. I timed the length of the procedure and from the speculum going in to being withdrawn was just over 13 minutes. As a final act of embarrassment she was given a huge pad to wear which reminded me of the looped “Dr Whites” my own mum used to use.
Questions I am asking myself after today are:
1, Why do they try and force cervical screening on us when its known its inaccurate and leads to more false positives and genuine positives?
2, Why are we forced to wear degrading hospital gowns?
3, Who invented those horrible couches with Stirrups? They are humiliating for women?
Both of us and my daughter as well have now formally dropped out of the national screening program so it will be interesting to see what happens now as they say Hannah will be called for a repeat smear in 12 months time. Also if my daughter gets her first summons when she is 24 half in a few weeks time. I am now going to pour myself a large Gin as its been a somewhat fraught day.
Michelle.
It’s the same with childbirth. Lying on the back was invented and designed for men’s perversions and “ease” of access..
The male doctor should know there is a first for everything and I’m glad Hannah had the courage to say what so many of his female patients have undoubtedly wanted to say to him but have lacked the courage!
Why were they so insistent on lasering “abnormal” cells when they were mild and even they conceded, they’d highly likely revert to normal on their own?
Did they explain that it might be painful and offer pain relief? Did they explain the potential cons (as well as the “benefits”) to her?
This conduct is quite frankly, criminal. I have no idea why they referred her in the first place given her age and the fact that she had mild cell “changes”.
Furthermore, I thought that all male practitioners had to have a chaperone with them?
Hi Apocalyptic Queen, If she had gone with the male Dr then there would have been a female nurse in with us as well. Calling him a pervy old man it wasn’t just what she said that nearly made me wet myself but the way she said it as if she really meant it (she did). As for the lasering, it was the stock “It might be a bit uncomfortable for a few seconds but it will be over very quickly” no other pain relief was offered, the benefits were explained and the only cons given were no sex until the bleeding has stopped, and no tampons or menstrual cups either.
As we were going out we got some more dirty looks from the staff for basically standing up for our rights and not being intimidated. I feel a lot better today its a sort of relief for being coerced into having three smears when i was her age to hear someone stand up for themselves.
Hi Michelle, what a huge waste of time this has been and put you both through such a lot of trouble. They could have phoned you up to give you this result – that it was very mild, and would almost certainly clear up by itself. It should have automatically been a repeat in 12 months at the very most. So glad Hannah made her feelings felt, and hope these NHS staff think twice about calling people up with CIN1 again. Were the risks of a punch biopsy ever explained? Of course not. I didn’t like to say but posts on MumsNet are giving a wide variety of treatments with some women with CIN1 being told to go away and others being given all sorts of biopsies and cutaway harms. All depends on the preference and whim of the operator and not on medical evidence. Cut up cervices cause preterm birth leaving babies born too early with long term health conditions. They know this. The sooner these places are shut down the better. NHS care should be based on best evidence and not these government vanity projects.
Michelle – Is Hannah aware that she can purchase a self-HPV test from Superdrug online doctor?
In some countries – the Netherlands and to some extent, Australia – they screen women for cervical cancer by offering them a self-HPV test that they can do themselves at home.
If the test is positive, only then are women offered a smear test or investigation to look for cell changes.
They use primary HPV screening here but the sods do it via a smear, rather than offering women the DIY testing kit so that they can do it themselves.
Just a word of caution though – the self-screening test is supposed to be used in women over 30.
Before that age, HPV tends to be transient and will disappear on its’ own in around 96% of cases within that age group.
However, it may be worth giving it a go in 12 months time when they “call her up” again, and if the DIY HPV-test is negative, she can tell them where to stuff it 👌
Oh dear…. i’m sorry that hannah had to go through this. i agree tho, if it is Cin 1, why not just let it clear up on their own. also what is with the guy docs doing this… like crazy. I denied my colosophy, but it was going to be done by a guy doc too… ugh Also that i don;t get either, why can’t we just wear our clothes and only take off what we need to? Also, why not explain the benefits, and the harms. it’s like they just want us to go through with a barbaric procedure, that may affect our fertility in the long run. This is why i haven’t gone back to the gyncologist either.
All of it seems barbaric to me . But most of all the coercion and normalization of all this. I’m glad she didn’t allow the biopsy . I hope she was made aware of the risks with that . Glad you guys have opted out.
4) How come pap smears are seen as consensual when 99% of the time there’s no full body consent? How is pain or even just discomfort not seen as a revoking of consent? How is this not sexual assault?
Hi everyone,
Anyone seen this?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10649005/amp/NHS-apologises-family-aspiring-model-27-died-cancer-symptoms-mistaken-IBS.html
While I sympathise for the family, I am glad the Coroner did not cave in to pressure from activists and concluded that an earlier diagnosis would not have changed the outcome.
You’ll still see comments wanting the doctor’s head and claiming she would still be alive were it not for his omissions 🙄
Yet the smear test didn’t find it. Just shows how useless this test is, but nobody querying this in the comments.
Says that some “minor abnormalities” were found but no action taken.
Wasn’t it Kiwi Celt who found a study that revealed that over a third of women in NZ received a negative smear result within three years of a diagnosis of cervical cancer?!
All proving why pap scrape is 50% effective.
In the instant case, the outcome depends on where the scrape is taken.
Only the small part of cervix surrounding the endocervical canal is where the scrape down to drawing blood is done.
Any other areas possibly needing attention are missed.
During colposcopy areas are snipped without anesthetic which is extremely painful and causes bleeding.
If virus is present these techniques do nothing but spread infection, causing pain and anxiety.
None of these effectively diagnose infection.
Hi Michelle,
Wow that all sounded a bit nerve wracking, I’d make that gin a double, Hannah seems to have got away relatively Scott free but I’ve no doubt this would have taken its toll on her mental state, she has now got a year to take on board the findings of scientific studies proving the inaccuracies of this poor quality test which I hope will put her at ease.
Hugs Jules x.
Hello all,
it’s me again- does anyone else feel stressed from time to time about this? Like i keep looking at my old records and getting really mad- almost angry. Like it’s almost that my mental state is shot about this. Back in 2020, i was referred to a coloscopy that i refused, but then they kept harassing me by sending me letters, and the harassment isn’t fair. But now all i am convinced is that doctors lie about everything! that leads me to distrust doctors and like.. does anyone else?
In the post today, a letter from my GP surgery:
“We have received notification that you did not respond to the invitation sent to you regarding bowel screening. Please contact the surgery to let us know if you would like to do this. If you would like to be removed from the programme please ring or email for an exemption form.”
This is from not responding to my one and only bowel screening kit which starts at 60 in UK. Compare this to the endless demands from cervical and breast screening, which insist you to make an appointment, no mention of requesting a form to opt out or even suggesting that you may want to opt out. Because men are in the bowel screening programme they wouldn’t dare push men around the way they treat women.
Click to access B1333_Update-on-Quality-Outcomes-Framework-changes-for-2022-23_310322.pdf
QOF updates 2022/23
Thanks for this, Jan. That explains why my husband had a sudden request to attend for a blood pressure appointment. He wondered why this turned up out of the blue. They are obviously getting incentivised for it. With the cervical screening, I see that they think it is their right to “revisit” this question at every opportunity, if you’ve previously declined. Even if you’ve opted out it seems to be the case. I replied recently to a text asking me to book a mammogram. I told them that I had no intention of ever having one, and then received a letter on how to opt out of bowel screening. I think they may have confused the 2 programmes. The email link they sent me doesn’t work and the email has been returned non-deliverable. I refuse to waste any more time on it and will ignore any further sumons that turn up over the next 2 years. They make it a huge waste of your time to opt out. Huge waste of money.
“Personalised care adjustment” is not what you expect if you have been listening to the media about the future of the NHS and “personalised care”. It is one size fits all.
It also says choosing to opt out requires a consultation to discuss this with the GP first, but you don’t have to give any reason for opting out at all, and you definitely don’t need to discuss this with the GP or anybody first. I thought they’d taken ethics on board, but they seem oblivious to anybody’s rights, and not the slightest idea that they are dealing with adults here. It’s shameful, but then it’s for GPs so maybe basic patient rights doesn’t come into their thinking?
That consultation with the GP before opting out smacks of –
1. Women are stupid
2. Women need to be controlled
3. Women need to be told what to do
Jesus, when will this shit ever end…
Don’t do the stupid consult, just get the opt-out form, fill it in and send it off.
If the office argues with you about making a consult before giving you the form, ask them why they’ve decided you’re too stupid to be trusted to make your own decisions.
Also ask them (loudly, in the waiting room) how much money they get for forcing women to get pap smears.
Better yet?
Send them a letter stating you will ONLY use Delphi Screener to test.
My husband and I were badgered with medical speak numerous times. Then once my husband got the doctor to order Trovagene test for me, all the hassling stopped.
So be aggressive. Tell them you’ll cooperate. But only on YOUR terms.
They are hoping after 5 years you’ll have forgotten why you opted out. They will hope you need something and are vulnerable to manipulation. Once they have you inside the door their battle is halfway over.
Thanks Cat! I’ve never had a pap (I’m 48), and have no intention of having one, unless I have symptoms or something doesn’t seem right.
My male doctor has never asked me about paps.
I have had female doctors in the past who have gone ballistic that I don’t do them!
I just said to them, “I’m not interested in using an inaccurate test to find a rare cancer, and I know you get incentive payments.”
Silence after that…. 😀
They didn’t like me much after that, I got the disapproving expressions, but they didn’t try anything after that. I’m in Australia.
Ask your doctor this. IF you were HPV infected, and had a pap scrape, would the virus be introduced to deep tissues where it would have more nutrients to grow?
Isn’t disturbing the infected area going to spread the virus more?
That’s why I like the Delphi and Trovagene. All passive.
Hi ladies,
It’s hard to believe just how much authority they believe they have over an individual’s body, if I have problem I would no doubt go and get it seen to and this would be my decision, their total authoritarian attitude in demanding conformity to their obsessive behaviour is nothing short of disgraceful , for people who are supposed to be above average intelligence they show an awful amount of ignorance and lack of respect to others, it’s because of their “doctor knows best ”attitude that the NHS has just found out that the latest patient satisfaction survey is at an all time low .
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Ladies,
So the way this reads even though I have opted out of cervical screening I am still likely to get harrassed, coerced, persuaded to attend a screening appointment? I am half hoping I am going to get contacted as I wont be backwards at coming forwards! If I get a Doctor (or receptionist) knows best, the will get my Jessica knows better reply.
Jess.
Hi Jess, it’s true, that all the while you have a cervix you are still the target population. Can’t remember the exact wording, but have read in various places that they recommend 5 yearly reminders of your “opt out status” ( as if you didn’t know) to see if it may prompt you to change your mind. I’m sure it would vary between GPs and some more difficult than others, and all depends on how close they are to reaching one of their lovely QOF targets or not. Totally unethical to pester people like this.
Hi ladies,
Having read the damning official report on the Telford and Shrewsbury maternity scandal, where 201 babies and nine mothers died because of of
“negligence and inappropriate care,”I think they need to get their own house in order before
they start “ touting for new victims” also in the news recently was that last year approximately 66 women were waiting for over 1 year for cancer treatment this year that figure is
245,000 this just fills you with confidence doesn’t it.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Jess and Ada! I rad that too, that the GP can write every 5 years to remind you of your opt out status, they can get away with it as it’s not an official “invitation “. I would have been “due “ in 2020 but have never heard a word or had a letter, whether it’s due to covid or the fact my surgery might not chase opted outside or whether they finally realise I’m never going I don’t know! I just hope I’m not bothered any more
I had the Pfizer booster shot yesterday.
Now I’m getting strong uterine cramping. Its painful enough that I just took paracetamol.
Has anyone else had this?
I did a search about it, and lots of women are reporting unusual menstral/uterine problems but it’s dismissed as ‘women don’t know what they’re talking about’. Gee, where have I heard that before…
I experienced some mild menstrual contractions and light bleeding after the moderna. I say light, because I currently take the combined pill to address very heavy and painful periods, and “menstrual” pain is more or less non-existent with it.
Previously, I’d had two doses of the Pfizer and was fine, apart from some flu symptoms after the second dose. My third dose was a Moderna and I did notice a subtle difference, however the issues resolved themselves after a few weeks.
i have heard of those symptoms before. i got two doses of the moderna and didn’t experience that. but yeah it is ridiculous that it is off as women don’t know what they are talking about.
I don’t trust this vaccine. There are too many athletes dying, there’s too many other ill effects people are reporting. I will not boost.
If you’re really concerned, then find a raw hemp/MM oil. Endoca makes a good product.
Research out of Israel has shown that CBD/CBDa (especially CBDa) wraps around the Wuhan spike and inhibits infection.
We can attest that this is true.
Hey there, Cat & Mouse. I only got the moderna dose 1 and 2. I haven’t gotten any booster shots that have came out in the us. For one, i don’t even get flu shots every year- so I have no idea what the CDC/ Healthcare industry is thinking whenever they release new boosters. If others don’t get any booster shots of other diseases, what makes one think of getting one to cover this disease? I don’t blame you for not trusting the vaccine tho. For the longest time, i haven’t either but to travel we had to get the original shots.. which is a bit ridiculous. Even this whole teachers/police/heathcare workers losing their job over this is a bit much.
I’ve gained trust for the vaccines from the same set of sources I gained most of my distrust for these ridiculous gynecological tests – medical and scientific journals. I’ve had a total of 4 doses of Moderna now, and, yes, I’ll get them for as long as Covid is a thing – and it’s evidently endemic now. Some people will have adverse reactions to any medication. Most people have some reactions from the vaccinations – the 2nd and 4th shots had me feverish and crappy for a few days. But, as has been said before, if you don’t like how you feel with the vaccines, you REALLY wouldn’t like having Covid…. let alone the possibility for hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills. That includes having everything stuck in you everywhere, whether you want it or not.
If you distrust the mRNA vaccines, there are several other vaccines on the global market which do not use mRNA technology at all.
I trust some vaccines. I’ll never trust those full of mercury or aluminum. I’ve had live and dead vaccines.
Best that worked w/o adverse effects was the live flu that got dripped in your nose.
No side effects.
Using Vitamin D, zinc, and raw hemp drops (cbd/cbda), is proven to prevent.
I’ve had 2 Pfizer Wuhan.
Won’t be boostimg for reasons already stated.
Here’s the thing: i trust the vaccines because they may help in the long run, but i don’t like how the government is trying to make everyone get the vaccine, and for those who don’t want it, are forced to lose their jobs. Like make a choice you know. Same with us: We make a choice to not go to the gyno, and we would learn to deal with it. Now of course, the only difference is that COVID can cause hospitalizations, so def important to get that shot. But still, i’m hearing people on the news saying that they have side effects from the vaccine, and it should be listed as a side effect- as well as warranted as one.
I agree. I’ve always thought forcing people to get medical treatment and vaccinations was wrong. Everyone should have the right to make their own choice.
I’m not anti-vax but I am for making personal choices.
Forcing pap smears, forcing vaccinations? No way.
Hi ladies,
Yet another gp has been convicted of sexual misconduct
Dr Krishna Singh, has been found guilty of 54 offences against 48 women and girls in the age group of between 14and 66 over a period of 35 years, which is absolutely horrendous but the most sickening aspect of this is the fact that he was also a police examiner and when a women went to the police after being raped he subjected her to a further assault, his sentence is to be announced next month, I think we ought to run a parallel site where we push for the reintroduction of corporal punishment and then we could watch this bastard swinging on the end of a rope, I simply can’t describe how furious I was after reading about this, why in this day and age are men still involved in female healthcare.
Hugs Jules x.
Thanks Jules.
I think the horrendous thing is how long the offending went on for. I’m sure he was reported very early on by women, and their complaints must have been silenced or ignored.
I’m going through a horrendous situation myself where I’m being harassed and stalked to the point of considering suicide, and the police won’t believe a word I say.
I even had a detective tell me I was crazy and needed counselling.
The last time I went to a police station begging for help, they told me to go away and get lost.
The last two times I actually called police for help, they never arrived and I had a mental health nurse calling me instead of police assistance.
I wish I had been born in a time when women are believed and listened to. 😦
Hi Oz,
When myself and Annette were younger and living at home mom told us a story about an aunt of ours (she’s dead now ) who was plagued by someone who kept making obscene phone calls which went on for months in desperation she told her mom and she took her advice, when the next call came off this guy instead of putting the phone down she said unless you’ve got ten inches and a Mercedes I’m not really interested, that was the last time he called. Her mom was seventy at the time and very prim and proper so we both found this hilarious.
Hugs Jules x.
Thanks for the advice Jules, I’ll keep hoping the Police get off their butts and help, but after being abused for so long, I doubt it.
Hi oz,
I can’t imagine just how unnerving it must be having a stalker, when I was at uni an ex police woman used to come to give self defence classes in one of the communal rooms for any girl who felt the need for it, there are measures that you can take to protect yourself if nobody else will, one that stayed with me is always be aware of your surroundings and if you are walking alone at night is to always hold your keys in the palm of your hand with the longest sticking out between two fingers and keep your hand in your pocket if you are attacked jab the person in the eyes with the key making as much noise as you can. I don’t know about the gun laws in Australia you could always take that route if it was legal, nothing more off putting for a stalker than looking down the barrel of of gun held by your victim.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi everyone,
I hope you all had a good Easter, it feels like ages since I last posted on here but work wise its been manic. Quick question for you all, have any of you had a private health assessment? I have been offered one through my Husbands work as he gets high level private medical care and he has added me to it. This isn’t the sort of health check that I would normally consider as most of the tests are covered in the annual CAA medical I have to have for work but being a bit of a gym addict and the fact that the BUPA one offers a full ECG while your pedalling like mad under load on an exercise bike and I am interested in seeing how fit I really am.
You get the usual health checks as part of a 45 minute consultation at the end with a GP and my husband was offered (and declined) a testicles check, I will be offered “if clinically indicated” a breast exam, pelvic exam, cervical smear, and high vaginal swab. Needless to say I will be declining them and it will be interesting to see how push the GP is. Just wondered if anyone else on here has had one and if it was a positive experience or not..
Jess.
My neighbours have private health insurance as husband got Hodgkin’s Lymphoma about 20 years ago. He’s still going strong. She told me that she accompanied him to his appointments and was approached by some doctor there for a smear test. To this day she regrets agreeing to it as one wasn’t due and it was purely for his own gratification. She told me she felt pressure was put on her, like it may affect her husband’s treatment, and be part of a package, so felt compelled to go along with it. We must have been in our 30’s about this time and the pressure to test was relentless, and there was no social media to find out otherwise. Their NHS GP had failed to diagnose the lymphoma for a long time as he thought her husband was too young for it, so they genuinely feared being put back on this NHS GPs books again and were grateful his company offered private healthcare. She told me she was reluctant to upset the boat in any way and reluctantly went along with the smear test to ensure her husband had the best care. It was disgusting the way they treated women in those days, and I’d hope that’s not the case now, but I’d want to know if refusing these screening tests might in any way affect your care with BUPA.
Hi Adawells,
I will let you know how it goes, i would be shocked if refusing to have a smear test would affect my BUPA care but stranger things have happened (although if I was in the USA I would expect to be coerced into having this during the visit. I will have my assertive pilots head on when I go 🙂
Jess
Hi Adawells,
It’s a sad situation that somebody felt compelled to undergo
an unwanted procedure for thinking that it may have consequences that would affect the treatment of someone else near to them , women should have a well rehearsed response to this line of attack by saying that it’s the wrong time of the month or there is a probability of pregnancy or you’ve had a hysterectomy, a rehearsed answer may defend against unwanted attention.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Everyone,
Further to my post last week I still havent got round to booking my health assesment yet. In the meantime this came up on my twitter feed a few days ago. This poor deluded girl seems to have convinced herself that she needed a smear test when she was a virgin. Not only that she has the wrong information:
https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/smear-test-as-a-virgin
It looks like it was peer pressure that coerced her into having this vile procedure carried out.
Jess
That story is fake news equal to the Steel Dossier.
It’s watered down every concern one could have.
It automatically dismisses any protests, and it humiliates every woman who’s experienced trauma during of these medically condoned rapes.
As a person who had this test done when i was a virgin, why? What about False positives, and some doctors may actually biopsy the cervix. poor people are misinformed! mistake honestly.. ugh.
Hi jess,
Misguided
Misinformed
Mistake.
Hugs Jules x.
Poor girl, feeling that she has to undergo a “full body shave” prior to getting medically degraded
This is the twitterer who had the smear, I feel sorry for she has been put under peer pressure and medical coercion to get this done:
Jess
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/real-lives/woman-no-symptoms-given-devastating-23958350
Still peddling these stories, and seems like they’re getting desperate to find anybody with abnormal cells these days. Sounds like this lady had CIN3 and the “pre-cancerous” cells removed, but she’s calling it cervical cancer with real tumours. However, the colposcopy seems to have miraculously cured her of her “cancer” and she’s now in the clear, with 6 monthly check-ups. With real cancer you’d be in for surgery within the next 2 months. About time they got these stories straight and gave women honest information about this lousy test.
*sigh* There have always been thousands of these phoney “cancer survivors” who say they’d be dead had they not found it and cured it when they did, encouraging everyone to have more and more cancer tests. What’s really happening is these are victims of overdiagnosis and overtreatment – they are now cancer-free because they never had cancer – they just had a cancer scare and the ensuing hysteria.
Well said Beth, most of these people who have had their lives “saved by a smear” never had cancer in the first place.
Jess
What a hilarious article. Woman has pap, woman gets results that she doesn’t understand and isn’t willing to share for the sake of a published article, woman gets colposcopy and bam, cured of cancer.
That’s not how any of it works, but it seems to be enough to slap on the internet for all of eternity and use to frighten a few women into getting a pap they might’ve been putting off.
What’s the real deal behind this article? Did this woman really approach a sketchy looking news outlet in the hopes of sharing her weirdass story? Or was she approached? What on earth is going on here… it’d be straight up funny if it weren’t so frustrating. Gotta rely on ignorance to keep those pap numbers up and quotas met!
Same old same, unfortunately…
From QnA on
http://www.contemporaryobgyn.net/view/hpv-answering-your-worried-patientss-questions
Women’s Question, asked by women who tested positive for HPV:
“Should my partner be examined?”
Medical answer:
The only time you need to examine an HPV-infected patient’s male sexual partner is if he reports clinically visible lesions, such as penile or anal warts. Examination at high magnification with 3% to 5% acetic acid solution often leads to overdiagnosing and overtreating benign HPV-unrelated penile skin conditions with potentially disastrous adverse events.
So, men, regardless of their HPV status should be spared any tests, discomfort, pain, or -forbid- consequences! They can keep having fun and infecting other women.
At the same time, it is perfectly acceptable -and relentlessly advised by the medical system- to torture women with scary cancer stories, shove speculums inside their vaginas, scrape their cervixes with abrasive brushes and spatulas, tear off whole chunks of living cervix tissues for biopsies, and cut and burn off huge pieces of cervixes as a “treatment”.
Perfect equality between genders. Medical business as usual.
If you can, find a Youtube video of this test being performed. I’ve looked with no luck. It’s talked about though; which means without actual video of it being done should raise red flags. That’s a sign I always look for. If a demonstration of a procedure is honest, then we’ll see pain etc moderated.
This test involves inserting a cotton swab inside the urethra. I don’t know how far it gets inserted. Then it’s twisted to remove cells.
My husband cannot imagine how painful that would be. Especially if there’s a lesion.
If they wanted, local anesthesia could be injected at base of penis. But that’s an extra procedure and time. And we know how providers are when they have to mediate pain.
Otherwise you’re absolutely right. The male could have a weaker immune system and never throw the virus. While continuing to infect.
That’s why we need friendlier, more accurate tests.
And we know how the medical power nazis be feel about that.
Yes, of course we need less painful and more accessible HPV tests, for both genders. What I was pointing out is that painful procedures for men get much more consideration than for women.
There also should be an option to have an HPV test anonymously. So that a woman, if she wishes, could check her HPV status without having her personal data recorded in various screening databases and medical surveillance registers, and being harassed by countless recalls and reminders.
Regarding HPV and vinegar solution, HPV doesn’t have a cell. No viruses do. That’s why all viruses have to invade host cells and use the resources and mechanisms of those cells for self-replication. And that’s why DNA changes in the cell instigated by the virus may eventually lead to cancer: because the cell replication mechanism, altered by the virus, no longer works in the interests of the host body. It begins to work in the interests of the virus that “wants” only two things – to spread and to multiply. And that’s exactly what cancer is: uncontrolled, excessive and potentially infinitive multiplication and spread.
Yes, the vinegar solution can (possibly) damage the cell to the point that its mechanisms can no longer work for the virus. But at the concentration of 3-5% it would only happen to topmost cells, if at all. The virus would most likely survive in the cells underneath anyway. And using a more concentrated solution would be too harmful for the healthy cells, without any proved benefit. So, vinegar is definitely not the cure.
Luckily, our bodies already have a perfectly designed protection and cure mechanism. It is called the immune system. When functioning properly and not stressed by external factors (including cancer screening and medical scaremongering), it can (and does) efficiently detect and destroy all precancerous and cancerous cells in the body. That’s why most cervical abnormalities go away without any treatment. And when the medical system claims that its screening and treatment program “saved lives”, all it does in most cases is detecting and unnecessarily over-treating the lesions that would have healed on their own anyway. And in doing that, it is causing the affected women enormous amount of stress and pain along the way.
It is important to remember that our bodies produce various mutated and cancerous cells every day, and our immune system deals perfectly well with the vast majority of them. It’s only when something suddenly causes an excessive number of abnormal cells (such as having sex with an HPV-infected man) and/or has weakened the immune system (such as stress, or smoking, or unhealthy lifestyle), it misses some damaged cell somewhere, which may occasionally turn into cancer later.
Question if anyone can help me.
Doesn’t the 3-5% vinegar solution kill the HPV cells?
They absorb it differently as it causes them to illuminate under a proper light wavelength.
This is where my last gyno failed me, “oh you have HPV Positive results, so you have a chance of developing cervical cancer. He was trying to scare me with the oh you have cancer tactics, when it could not be the case at all. Also my partner had that test done before, he said it was painful. but you know, if it is painful for males, think of us females, super painful with the speculum.
How far was the swab pushed down his urethra? How long did it take? Draw blood?
Notice how they didn’t even advise that suspected HPV-positive men wear condoms to protect their partners or other unsuspecting female victims from infection 👀
Seem to remember reading somewhere that free HIV tests are available from various machines in clubs and maybe gyms in the UK. They trust people to turn up for treatment if they get a positive result, and I understand that this system is working well. I don’t see why they can’t make HPV swab tests similarly available for people to try. Cut out the screening and provide people with self-test kits if they want it. I strongly suspect it’s got a lot to do with men being trusted and women being treated as imbeciles who need their bodies policed by the gynos.
Nena, that’s such a fair point about biopsies!
It is incomprehensible that we live in a society that flew to Mars, built the Internet, invented smartphones, and yet is perfectly content with continuing using medieval torture methods in women’s healthcare.
It is unbelievable that cervix-puncturing tenaculum is still used for holding the cervix in place, and that cervical biopsy forceps are still used for taking samples!
The modern medicine thinks it’s perfectly fine to sink the claws of those forceps into the cervix tissue, then close them and tear off a huge chunk of meat off the woman’s cervix, usually without any anaesthetic, calling the procedure “a slight discomfort”. What’s most unforgivable is that this barbaric procedure tears off a chink of the underlying cervical stoma with muscles, nerves and blood vessels, which causes a lot of pain and an extensive damage to the cervix, but is absolutely not needed for the purpose of the biopsy and is discarded later in the laboratory, because the histology analysis requires only the thin layer at the top – epithelium.
And this butchery continues because it is cheaper for the system, and because it is faster and more convenient for the medical profession to keep torturing women like that. By keeping the status quo, they don’t need to rewrite the manuals, don’t need to learn anything new, don’t need to undergo any new training for much more humane methods like strip biopsy. Medical business as usual, indeed!
I have been away working for a few days and only just seen this discussion. Working for an airline when we are away on a long haul I often get chatting to the cabin crew when we are checked into the hotel. A number of male cabin crew have had the urethral swab and say it only goes in about 5mm but is incredible painful. Its like a small cotton bud going in without any KY that is then rotated and pulled out. It apparently takes about 3 seconds. The only way a local anaestetic woud work is if it was injected into the head of the penis which I am told would be even more painful. One of the guys said there was a series on channel 4 called sex clinic and it was shown on there and the guy screamed.
Jess
yeah that is pretty much how my partner explained it too!
That guy is correct. There are couples whom the male will use a very small and rounded eyedropper to install THC drops inside his urethra. The idea is to be erect, then sort of hold the phallus while the eyedropper goes just beyond the grip. Then the liquid is pushed in, while pressure is held on the bulb so it doesn’t suck out or leak. The endgame is to have wicked sex while hovering on the precipice of a huge orgasm.
Literally the same is done to dispense lidocaine gel into the male urethra. This is done prior to catheterization and some other procedures.
The lidocaine would sting some; but I don’t know how much. Similar but weather formulations are used in ejaculation delaying products which are topically applied. I don’t know if those effect women; never encountered them.
The problem in obtaining a STI specimen is that saline or lido on the q-tip would compromise obtaining a valid sample. As we know that story…
You’ve heard me talk about the long ago discontinued Trovagene Urine Based HPV test.
This product was perfect for HPV testing. As urine based, no pain, no muss, no fuss.
With PCR tech and antibody capture, 93% accuracy.
Easy to imagine how that would be a game changer.
So i actually have an update regarding me: i finally went to a new PCP, who is very friendly and helpful. got labwork done with my thyroid and it’s all wonky. What’s interesting is that i don’t feel weird at all, and always get accused of not taking my medicine. Which okay may seem that way, but i’ve been taking it every day at 5:00AM. Anyways, told my doctor this and she was nice about it thank god. I scheduled an annual exam for January of next year. My only issue is that i don’t want a pap smear like at all. I did tell the doctor’s assistant who made a note on my chart. because i explained that it hurt me and bla bla bla. but how can i deny an exam that i don’t want?
Hi Sunflowergal22, if you dont want a smear test tell the Dr at the time. If he/she wont take no for an answer tell him/her that if they force this on you you will report them to the police for sexual assault.
Jess
Just say no. If they push for a reason, tell them that saying no is sufficient, or you will report them for harassment.
I have been doing a bit of introspection. Some doctors that I have been to in the past have been respectful and takes a straight no for an answer.
There was one who waited for me to give a reason before going out of the room to ask the nurse something. To this day, I have not found out why.
They don’t need a reason from you. Just say no, I have made my decision of sound mind. If they do hear a reason, they will argue with you to wear you down until you cannot reasonably refuse. That’s coercion.
I have finally worked out why I was disturbed. I have received a response from the HCCC but they made it sound like there was no reason for me to be upset.
Thanks for the help! i suppose i am just scared because some may not want no for an answer. but i know what is good for my body. My issue is that i have been disrupted so many times in the past by what i want to put in my body and whatnot.
It doesn’t matter what they want. They are not you or your body, and to coerce or make the test sound mandatory or wear you down is harassment.
Hi ladies,
Sorry I haven’t been around for a while, but I’ve been insanely busy. I’ve seen a couple of unfamiliar names posting, it’s great that you’ve found your way here and welcome. It’s just been reported on the BBC news that after investigations into the cervical screening exam that a five yearly interval with the hpv test is adequate for cancer detection. I’ve got a feeling there may be an “announcement” soon, so expect outrage from the screenaholic brigade personally I can’t wait for the sh!! to hit the fan, they may have to reveal some truths to smooth things over with these morons.
Hugs Jules x.
Jules you beat me to it! I just saw the bbc piece. As you say, expect outrage and cries of the government is murdering women….
I can hear the moans from across the Atlantic.
Expect at least four women to parade themselves around news channels and magazines like prostitutes near an airport offramp.
One will be dying due to neglecting her invitations.
Another will be chirping about her mean husband who just doesn’t understand how a woman needs private time with her doctor.
Another will cheerfully talk about how wonderful it is to spread her legs for society to combat disinformation.
The last will exclaim that she was cured of a disease she never had.
Aren’t we lucky to have these 15 seconds of fame actresses?
Here is a taster of what is to come….
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/cervical-cancer-screening-hpv-smear-test-every-five-years-safe-extended-across-uk-study-1660070
Jess
Uk ladies, for anyone fed up with the Jubilee, BBC2 tonight 9pm making sense of cancer
Professor of Maths Hannah Fry diagnosed with cervical cancer at aged 36 “investigates the way we diagnose and treat cancer by examining statistics “
Hi ladies,
News about one of my previous posts, Dr Krishna Singh was found guilty of all but one charge at court of sexual misconduct over a period of 35 years against 47 females including two underage girls , one lady who was pregnant, and a rape victim who was abused during her rape exam, this animal was described in court of being of previous good character and the recipient of an MBE for his “services to the medical profession ” Who the fu!! are they trying to kid, his sentence 12 years is nowhere near enough for the emotional damage and anguish he’s caused
he should have been nailed to the floor , dowsed in petrol and set alight.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi Everyone,
This has just come through on my twitter feed. Some women will have put themselves through the ordeal of cervical screening only to have their samples lost and likely to be put under incredible pressure coercion to get it done again:
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/nhs-sorry-around-100-cervical-7198563
Jess.
That’s so pathetic. What a non-story that is. Says “up to 100” in the article, and we know that only about 1 in 100 women is at risk. These local rags are always promoting these “tragic” tales of doom, but every year thousands of young people commit suicide because children’s mental health services are so underfunded, but you can walk in and get a smear test anytime. Makes me sick the amount of money that’s thrown at this rubbish.
Meanwhile, downunder, HPV self-testing will be available to all after July 1st:
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/public-health/cancer-screening/cervical/self-collection
Thats brilliant but can you imaging the furore if 100% self testing was introduced here in the UK? It would free up practice nurses to do proper work, think of the poor agressive receptionist who would no longer be able to coerce you to come in for screening, it would even free up time in GP surgeries to do other more relevant treatments and ease the workload……
Jess
This was recently tweeted by @TomPMarshall a researcher in Public Health who I follow. Often says wise words about screening.
“The UK cervical screening programme faces an interesting dilemma. The cohort of HPV-vaccinated women are at half the risk of an earlier generation, changing the cost-benefit ratio.
But screening programmes are institutions & their primary function is to maintain their existence”.
There are quite a few in the public health sector who know it’s a big waste of money, and yet there are the afficionados who are raking in so much money for these pathetic research projects, where other countries have already moved on. Not to mention the GPs and their incentive payments.
We’re dealing with the last very elderly relations in the family now and it is appalling the lack of care elderly people actually get. Discharged from hospital with no care plans/support in place, family members at their wits end caring for very disabled relatives. These smear test nurses need putting back into the community to act as district nurses and caring for those most in need, yet families are forced to pay for all of this privately.
Makes my blood boil. And we have yet another cervical screening awareness week coming up on 20th June.
that’s great! This should be available to everyone, including other countries. There’s even a self test on NURX but, sadly it isn’t available in my state yet. And yeah it’s sad that mental health isn’t as important for professionals. it should be– i always said things can get better with time, but as a person who considered mental health issues, mental health should be available to all. it’s sad that we can ruin our bodies for free, but to talk to a therapist, we need to pay. crazy.
Hi adawells,
Another awareness campaign on the 20th can’t wait ,I find them a great source of amusement these days I’m just wondering if they can manage to come up with any new slant on the topic or if it will be the same old drivel they have been promoting for the last 30 years, I’m not going to hold my breath, probably just more of the same old same old, some people just don’t learn, but then again with more than 1 in 3 women not bothering with paps maybe some do.
Hugs Jules x.
Hi ladies,
You will be pleased to hear that we can all relax, on the BBC news today they announced that an ambassador for women’s healthcare has been appointed
Dame Lesley Regan she is leading a campaign called women’s health strategy and she wants to introduce “health hubs” where women can go to access all female health needs such as HRT, contraception , at home abortion pills and of course the good old smear test, thought it was too good to be true , but what can you expect from a prof of obstetrics and gynaecology from the imperial college London, she’s just going to enforce the age old propaganda they all do and any other person with a different view must be an idiot, sounds to me like if you did go with a problem it would just be another chance for them to try and get you to submit to their demands.
Hugs Jules x./
Wait until men begin lining up for abortions and scrape tests.
Ahh socialized medical care.
Getting what you pay for.
Daily Express today UK ladies, David Tennants wife Georgia fuelling the cervical hysteria raising awareness of her story and how vital smears are. She said borderline changes had her planning her funeral and eventually she had CIN 2 which we all know can reverse itself… groan!
On another note I’m relocating in 2 weeks from SE England to nearer my adult daughter in Wales, and I’m already thinking about if my as yet unknown new doctor will hound me to have smears and mammograms! The answer will still be NO!
Using cannabis that way?
Smart woman.
Perhaps Ms Tennant should read the Daily Fail who carry a story of a woman who’s cervical cancer returned. Said woman ditched her 16 hour long workdays became a vegan sex therapist and inserts cannabis into her vagina every day…..