This post has been created to provide an additional forum for discussion, and is a continuation of the old Blogcritics’ Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion. The original Blogcritics Unnecessary Pap Smears discussion had more than 10,000 comments, but the comments were deleted following changes to the Blogcritics’ site.
Fortunately, the comments from Blogcritics have since been recovered and are preserved here: http://unnecessarypapsmears.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/over-10000-lost-comments-on-unnecessary-pap-smears-find-a-home/ This post also provides a ‘part three’ continuation of the ‘part two’ discussion forum that exists on this site: https://forwomenseyesonly.com/2013/09/22/discussion-forum/
Thank you Alex for suggesting the addition of an open forum devoted to discussion on this blog.
forwomenseyesonly 
I forgot to add that not only is the character only 24, she also has had bleeding for 4 WEEKS which clearly requires diagnostics NOT screening, we all know screening is for women with no symptoms. But that won’t stop all these uninformed twats trying to get the age lowered / increase uptake!
I never watch this programme but I was pleased to see that quite a few of these idiot chavs were saying it was irresponsible scaremongering. Women were posting that it really doesn’t happen like this, and complaining about the script. It was good to see that at long last even the diehards are starting to see this propaganda for the vomit that it is.
…and a few years back the character Alma- died after missing a smear. ..! CC sure is rampant. .in Soap Land lol…
And I do recall that the writers were roundly criticized by the experts over that garbage. Maybe get your facts right before you embark on those sensationalist storylines, guys?
A few weeks ago, I had a torn/strained muscle injury and, over the weekend, visited an urgent care center affiliated with one of our local hospitals. Each of the local hospitals has these type of facilities all over the city. I had to fill out the usual forms, get weighed and have my blood pressure taken.
Nothing was said by the Dr on duty or any of the staff about screening tests, but yesterday in the mail, I received a postcard from that hospital group about screenings and to “call today to book your appointment!” It was one of those advertising/promotional type of postcards. I don’t know why, but it has me upset and bothered. This is a particularly difficult time of year for me, as my mother passed away from brain cancer 11 years ago in November. Anything that reminds me of that is quite distressing.
I’ve never received any sort of mailing like that before from that hospital group and am assuming that since I went to one of their urgent care facilities recently that my name and address were entered into some sort of database from which they retrieve addresses and send people these unsolicited postcards. That is very wrong, in my opinion.
Hi Susanne
As you know, health care in the US has largely been taken over by these large hospital systems. They are big business, and are more about making money than about providing healthcare, in my opinion. Sending out these postcards is their way of trying to get you to have cancer screenings in their facility. That way they can bill your insurance for them and take in lots of $$$ to pay their oftentimes thousands of employees and also make a profit. That’s no excuse, of course, but as women we not only give up our bodily autonomy, we give up our privacy and civil liberties as well. I’m very sorry about your mother. I lost my mother to cancer also and know how emotional it feels when those anniversaries roll around.
Daily fail again today ladies.. Aussie woman dying of CC even though she attended all her smears. She’s so proud soon due to vaccine and smears that no other woman will go through she is…even though stat said 269 women died of CC IN 2016..
it’s hardly rampant
Amazing that so few of them ever question why the smears didn’t work.
Article states she was diagnosed after her coil was removed covered in tumour and she’d been to all her 2 yearly smears..”the amount required for all women”…
It sounds to me that they are attempting to bash the new programme in Australia and say it’s unsafe. I haven’t seen the article, but it’s odd that if it was growing around her coil it must be inside the womb and not on her cervix. Sounds like it has been pushed in there when the coil was inserted and cancer spread up there. I’m amazed at hearing what some women put themselves through. They have treatment after treatment to fix the harm previous “treatments” have done to them. I simply cannot understand why these women can’t see the harm these gyne visits are doing to them, but they are completely brainwashed by the system.
Also daily fail just now Emma myk Mathuna one of the Irish women caught up in the cervical screening failings has died aged 37. That’s their 5th story on CC in a week if you count the story on Snead from Corrie
There’s definitely something very strange about what happened in Ireland. This lady has 5 children and the last one only 2 years ago, and it’s odd that nobody knew/saw she had cervical cancer in all this time?
There’s been media coverage of some research showing a lot of pregnancies in Australia are unplanned, and that most women were not using contraception at the time. So the recommendation is to talk about contraception post abortion and post natal – and look at long term methods, like the IUD. Some suggest young women can’t afford the expense of an IUD insertion using a specialist – most/many GPs don’t do IUD insertions. (I know the practice I use refers patients for IUDs but I’ve been told by two of the GPs that most women don’t want an IUD)
It’s incredible how deaf the medical profession chooses to be, they’ve never listened to women, how we feel is completely irrelevant, lots of women hate the idea of an IUD and don’t want one! I would never have considered an IUD, end of story. A doctor who keeps pushing IUDs when the woman doesn’t want to use that method is out of line.
“Women are still thinking of the old IUDs” etc. etc.
Such hypocrites too, women here have always had barriers placed around the Pill, even now it remains on script – every time there’s talk of freeing up access, the AMA and others come out bleating about women “missing their cervical screening & breast checks” and anything else they decide to tack on….it’s transparently about maintaining control over women and the Pill – protecting that business.
Cancer screening should never have been linked to the Pill and breast checks haven’t been recommended for many years – of course, they know that, but anything goes when it comes to maintaining their control over women.
https://www.australiandoctor.com.au/news/many-unplanned-pregnancies-due-contraception-fail
More than 40% of women have contraception failures? I can’t believe it’s that high. Sounds like they’re pushing IUDs on everyone. After giving birth, just the idea of anybody poking anything into your womb is as welcome as a needle in the eye. Just can’t imagine how painful it must be, and they have a high expulsion rate too. I’ve seen a lot of women post about how painful the insertion process is, and how painful it can be for some, with many asking for it to be removed in the following months. These women call themselves feminists and liberated, but it baffles me how putting up with this sort of torture can be anything remotely liberating.
Just spotted this on facebook. Just as I thought, Virgin would love to take on cervical screening but can’t quite understand why women don’t want to go…
SHOUT OUT:
Women aged 25-35 are invted to share their views about the NHS cervical screening programme in Devizes. Sessions will be light hearted and delivered by 2 female Virgin Care employees. Those who attend will receive a free £20 Love2shop voucher as a thank you for attending this one off informal discussion group, refreshments will be provided.
Please come along and join us on your lunch break -your feedback will be anonymously used to help shape and improve this service.
Date: Monday 29th October
Time: 12.30pm-2pm
Venue: Community First, Unit C2, Beacon Business Centre, Hopton Park, Devizes, SN10 2EY
Virgin Care are looking for Wiltshire women who have opted out of the cervical screening service, or have taken part in the programme to share their ideas, thoughts or experiences of cervical screening (smear tests).
To register interest please email lizzie.henden@virgincare.co.uk for more information.
or text call: 07976 918750
Thank you! and please share with your friends and family.
They’re hoping people will give reasons such as “difficult to get an appointment”, “don’t have the time”, “I think (fairly enough) it might hurt”…. They’ll get ideas for their marketing to make sure common complaints are brushed aside straight away. If people turned up and gave concerns based on objective facts, they’d find it impossible to work that into their marketing because it would be illegal to ignore or play down. The overtreatment rates are what they are. The miniscule reduction in lifetime CC risk is a fact.
I completed the survey and got a response. Did anyone else?
She promised to include my comments on informed consent, the NHS being dictatorial, false positives and the self-testing kit for HPV.
Well ada we told them in Devon was it b4….Maybe it’s better in Devizes lol..
I just been watching coronation Street. .don’t usually but I’m so tired I’m just vegging. ..Sinead the pregnant CC character has been advised to terminate and have aggressive treatment. …hmm. …
Ada I was thinking what you said about a government database of British vaginas and…while I’ve been called a conspirasist on other sites just think..maybe govt is researching. Think about the invasive questions asked at a smear. Last period. ..if menopausal. ..Maybe they’re tracking if women are starting it earlier or later…contraception? Is one method more popular? Do you practice safe sex? To predict possible outbreak of STI maybe? Or am I off the wall?
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy at all, but all very real. All the data about our smear history is all being used right now for research. Researchers have access to this information to predict disease trends over the years, and the smears taken today are being examined for HPV to detect how well the vaccine is performing and predict future disease trends. That’s why I think they’re desperate for young women to be a part of the programme and not abandon it. The data doesn’t identify name or address, but our medical, smear histories are available to researchers, who can request access through research applications. No-one ever knows that they’ve been a part of this research, because a lot of it is checking past medical data where people don’t need to be identified. I have seen a few research papers confirming that women start their periods earlier today, than they did a few years ago.
I meant to say about 50 years ago, not a few years ago!
Hi Kat and Ada.
When I was having smears I always sensed they were collecting data. I always felt annoyed having to ask these intrusive questions. I was asked about periods and contraception. I’m sure i was once asked about sexual persuasion ie was I hetrosexual but I was never asked any other question about sex. I always wanted to not tell them anything but because my doctor and his PN implied smears were compulsory I thought it was complulsory to answer the questions also.
No man would endure regular, unwanted, genital examinations followed by barrages of intrusive questions. This simply wouldn’t happen. How is it that this happened to us? We are fundamentally underneath the same human creatures as men. It just shows how clever the authorities were emplying such underhand tactics to get us to comply with all of this.
Hi Kat and Ada. I put having to ‘ask’ rather than having to ‘answer.’
I’m recovering from shingles followed by chest inf. Have been pretty low. On the up now tho.
X
Get well soon, Linda. Definitely think attitudes are changing, or are we just getting older? If I didn’t have my daughter, I might have buried my head in the sand over this, but when I think what happened to me and my “medical care” in the 1990’s, I will do everything I can to make sure it doesn’t happen to her.
I’ve always believed that they collect data to monitor sexual activity amongst women.
Like when there was a study quoted a few years ago suggesting that on average, women had had something like 9 different partners by the time of marriage, as compared to around 2, for the previous decade. So much morbid fascination with women’s private lives in contrast to men’s.
Hi linda. Get well soon. Thinking of u x Love Kat
Thanks Kat and Ada. Much love to both of you. X
Linda, on the subject of the intrusive questions at these exams – I’m a private person and always abhorred the intensely personal questions and found them almost as violating as the exam itself. You’re absolute right that never in a million years would men be subject to such a violation of their privacy. The fact that women are just fits in with the whole mindset in the medical community that our bodies are public property. It makes me livid!
What irritates me is that we are expected to be OK about it all. We have various campaigns in the UK (notably the gyne cancer charity The Eve Appeal) which encourage women to shout the word vagina, and talk about vaginas with their family, and on billboards we have flowers in the shape of vaginas and cup cakes in the shape of vaginas. We have knitted and crocheted wombs and vaginas. They want it all paraded everywhere, and tell us we need to get used to this to be liberated. It’s become a coming out experience for women, and a feminist rite of passage. You’re not a liberated woman if you don’t follow this crap and it’s always promoted that all women must want this. It’s about as liberating as page 3 in The Sun.
I agree. I remember once, many years ago, when I went to my previous GP about my ear being blocked (it just needed syringing) he started asking probing questions about what contraception I was using, before he even looked in my ear. He then tried to persuade me to book in for a smear test. I was so taken aback that the consultation was suddenly not about what I’d gone in for that, when he asked if he could look in my other ‘good’ ear, I thought “don’t bother”! I couldn’t wait to get out of there and, like a ‘good girl’, I promised to book my ‘smear test’ appointment on the way out, before hurriedly proceeding right past the receptionists!
In 2014 I wrote my GP a letter about the time she forced a smear test on me years before and how it had badly affected me. I sent it to our practice manager, because I wanted someone else to be a witness to what this GP was like. She wrote to me to acknowledge my complaint and had passed the letter to Dr X for her to reply. Never had a response. Have now found out that she’s retiring next year. Would be interested to see if the cervical screening rates at this surgery take a tumble, as they have some of the highest rates in our city. The surgery has been in special measures for some time, but has recently improved out of special measures – the CCG congratulated them on the high screening rates, so that got them off the hook.
Oh my days ladies over on cervical health instagram she has a new thread about abnormal cells. I get she’s a blog for women suffering with abnormalities but 79% of them have had them in their smears..and we all know it can go back to normal on other own…
63% had “treatment “…
Article today, state opposition (Liberal) will make the Pill available OTC if they win the upcoming election, Labor are considering it as well – you’ll still have to see a doctor for the first script but can then buy it over the counter. Currently, women have to go back to the doctor every 6 or 12 mths and fend off cervical screening, and sometimes even breast and pelvic exams or buy the pill online. Naturally, the AMA is already bleating that it’s a bad idea, lives could be at stake etc. Of course, they mention cervical screening…it should never have been linked to the pill but that’s still the case today…not sure how many doctors would deny women the pill these days if the Pap test is rejected, I imagine quite a few would still mislead women into believing it’s necessary if you’re on the pill and some probably still pressure women, most would strongly recommend it. So getting women into the consult room is incredibly important to protect the screening program…and of course, they want the income from all the consults. The screening program is now 5 yearly from 25 so the govt probably thinks most women will see a doctor at least 5 yearly when they can be “reminded” about screening…and Medicare would not be covering all the unnecessary consults.
This comes after recent research showing a lot of pregnancies in this country are unplanned, if we cared about that, we’d have freed up the Pill a long time ago, instead of that for many years it was the norm to leave empty handed if you refuses the excess.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/state-opposition-promises-over-the-counter-contraceptive-pill-20181021-p50b35.html
From this it looks as though you can only get your first prescription after you’ve had a smear test. A way to get women in for screening I bet. I wonder if the pharmacy will renew the prescription in 5 years time if you have declined to test. Also what happens if you want a break for a baby, and then want to restart the pill at a later date. Presumably, they can withhold it if you don’t get another prescription from GP. I have seen one GP post that women will miss the “added value” of their screenings if this goes OTC. These GPs have a very distorted sense of their own value.
I think the pressure today is different. It’s more cautious. They’ve gone from saying “you must have it” to “maybe you should think about booking yourself for a smear test”. It’s slightly more cautious. They must know a lot of women are not just aware of the limitations of the test, a lot of them know what their rights are too. It is no councidence that it is the younger generation spearheading the drive for lower take-up rates.
http://www.newspronto.com/news/pitch-engine/32693-hpv-testing-and-pap-test-market-or-cervical-cancer-screening-market-worth-4-523-1-million-usd-by-2020
Sales boost is due to “increasing incidence of cervical cancer”. I thought cervical cancer was set to be dying out? It seems the more money they throw at this disease, the more the incidence increases.
Thanks for that link….all about the dollars! All the more reason for them to get the increases they so desire! Words fail me…but my anger deepens!
Women are clearly wising up to this test and its implications. On the BBC news this morning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45593583
About three million women across England have not had a smear test for at least three-and-a-half years. Screening rates are at their lowest for two decades. A total of 220,000 British women are diagnosed with cervical abnormalities each year and there were 854 deaths from cervical cancer in England in 2016. The NHS target is for 80% of women aged 25 to 49 to be tested every three years and the same proportion aged 50 to 64 to be screened every five years.
Note this part – 220,000 put through this crap! And we know most of these would not turn to cc And the mentioned target 80%!! Still putting it down to embarrassment! Usual words “non-attenders”. Comparing it to “going to the dentist or opticians” for goodness sake! Used the name of Jade Goody yet again and another cc victim, although vague about her supposed cc “operations” which were probably just simple abnormalities??
No doubt the news coverage will encourage more (un-informed women) to the herd of happy pappers! Unless they open their eyes and clock the tiny amount of “854” deaths and decide “I don’t think so Doc”?
Good God, I wonder why they’ve suddenly started running this in the news? I thought January and June were their awareness months? Just thinking that the new uptake results for previous year come out about November but not able to see any published figures yet. By the sounds of it it looks like the figures have fallen again. Oh dear.
Chas and Ada I loved this. The sun paper is jumping up and down proclaiming so many lives will be lost as women shun smears in their millions….the article mentions my town where take up is 61%. Actually I’m amazed its that high….it’s a deprived area with a high ethnic minority mix of different group the kind NHS bleat it’s hard to reach. Interesting that maybe the earlier settlers took the “crap” jobs their children and subsequent generations flew high and became medics or radiographer ect… Maybe they too are more informed than embarrassed lol…back to the drawing board PHE…
Hi, i’ve not had a smear for 11 years and worry constantly that i’m being reckless with my health. You stated that 854 is a tiny amount but it’s still a death. I’ve been looking at statistics for Scotland and there are an average of 45 cases of cc in the under 30’s per year. I’ve read on here that you shouldn’t start testing until 30 year old. Surely that’s a bad idea.
Sorry if I seem argumentative but I don’t know what to believe, I have health anxiety and I worry constantly about getting cc.
Hi Tracey, this is exactly the kind of fear they have instilled in women! Women are not a disease. Our private body parts are NOT a ticking time bomb. Out of that 854 a third of those were MISSED by the screening so clearly it is NOT a good test! They screen approx 4 million women so 854 is not a big number. Also of the 854 how many died BECAUSE of the actual treatment not the cancer i.e. infection due to surgery (Sepsis), chemo (we know that kills), radiation (we know that kills too).
More people die from falling down the stairs! There are so many other deaths from other illnesses to worry about. Take a look at heart disease for instance: https://heartuk.org.uk/press/press-kit/key-facts-figures
Coronary Heart Disease remains the number 1 killer in the UK. 160,000 people die from heart and circulatory disease. 73,000 people die from coronary heart disease (CHD). 42,000 people died prematurely from cardiovascular disease (CVD).
And also here https://www.bhf.org.uk/for-professionals/press-centre/facts-and-figures
It is time women stopped worrying about cervical cancer OR cervical abnormalities. CIN 1/2/3 is NOT cancer and most will not turn to cancer. Abnormals can be because of bathing products/douching, sexual intercourse, condoms, tampons, simple hormone fluctuations which are normal, but they don’t bother to tell you that. They also include in their figures of diagnosed cc both CIN 2 & 3 so you have become a cancer patient – BUT CIN is NOT Cancer so why should these be added to those statistics?!? Misleading!!
So basically 220,000 women absolutely panicking thinking they have or may get cc. It messes with our brains, our thinking, we go through all these awful procedures, thinking we are cancer survivors…I wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for screening….utter BS I’m afraid! And it turns our world upside down to the extreme!
Please take a look at the Education page on this site as there are many links with fantastic information.
PLEASE STOP WORRYING AND RESEARCH PROPERLY….please!
Tracey, we’ve been over this with you many times before. The biggest threat to your health and wellbeing is your health anxiety, not your cervix. Do you worry about other body parts too, or is it just the constant scare stories and media hype that’s made you obsessive about one tiny part of your body? I find it hard to believe that you stopped testing because of the anxiety of waiting for results, yet you’re worrying yourself sick – literally – that you’re being irresponsible by not testing? Hmm.
Again… when they perform a smear, all they’re doing is scraping some skin cells from the END of the cervix, and checking those cells for signs of change. The skin can easily be irritated or inflamed by a number of things, and anything that looks unhealthy will be labelled a ‘risk’. The fact is, they do not know what cells are ‘pre-cancerous’ and which ones are not, so every little blip is treated as a threat. This leads to vast numbers of women undergoing damaging treatment for something that would never have caused them harm. A ‘smear’ is more likely to cause you distress than give you peace of mind.
Do yourself a favour and get yourself an HPV home testing kit if you’re so worried. It’s far more accurate than a smear test.
The type of CC that young women develop grows further inside the cervix – it’s almost impossible to detect genuine ‘pre-cancerous’ cells in the under 30’s with a smear. On the other hand, ‘abnormal’ changes are extremely common. So testing the under 30’s prevents very few cases but leads to huge numbers having surgery which can cause all sorts of problems. It would seem that the rise in cases among young women is this very type which is difficult to detect early.
The average rate of cervical cancers in Scotland is 13.7 per 100,000. In England it’s 9.1. In the Netherlands, 8.9. Scotland screens every three years and has been screening from age 20 until very recently. England screens from age 25. The Netherlands screens every five years from age thirty. So more screening = fewer cases? Nope.
I’ll stop now, because I don’t think any of this is going to sink in anyway.
Hello Tracey. If I remember rightly, you posted a very similar piece about a year ago. I see that you are still very concerned about your health.
Assess your own risk by reading as much as you can about the pros and cons of having the test – then decide. None of the women here would deffinitely say not to have one. We can only tell you what we have decided for ourselves. Only you can decide for yourself. It is your choice to have a smear test or not.
I think you will find that this forum was set up to listen to the feelings of those of us who for one reason or another believe we were forced into having smear tests against our will. We feel we have been coerced, conned and tricked into doing something we would have preferred not to have done. Some of us, me included, have been harmed by having this so called simple test. I am for one am very against it and would not have one. The forum comments are nearly always biased in favour of NOT having them.
You seem very concerned about your health. Perhaps you could be helped by buying your own HPV kit from an online retailer. This will tell you if you are HPV neg or pos. If you are neg then you can put your mind at rest there is little chance of you getting the type of CC cause by the most prolific HPV virus. If you are HPV pos then you might need to make some hard decisions “FOR YOURSELF” whether to screen or not….
I posted a reply but for some reason it’s gone to the bottom on the comments – sorry about that.
Katreham – thank you I have just looked at the sun article! https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/7561870/cervical-cancer-smear-tests-rates-drop/
Very similar to the BBC one although the picture of a naked woman with a question mark on her vagina is appalling and was not necessary to include….what a joke! The video also says women SHOULD be tested every 5 years etc. There’s that word again SHOULD!!!
Then they go on to explain what happens during the test in detail……we know already! And they used Stacey Soloman / Jade Goody / Jeff Brazier / Jessica Knowles here to try to increase the uptake. OMG……..all this makes me so mad! Half way down there’s a pink link https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/1770470/smear-test-nhs-cervical-cancer-hurt-painful/
“A SMEAR test is something almost every woman in the UK will experience at some point ”
“How often you need a smear test depends on your age, with every woman over 25 being invited for a screening”
You don’t sound argumentative, just anxious.
As other posters have mentioned, this is the reaction they want. They being anyone who works with or profits from cervical screening including that very well known charity… People want to keep their jobs at the end of the day. They want you scared and compliant.
If it helps you rationalise, your lifetime risk of dying in a car accident (+/- 0.42%) is pretty much the same as your lifetime risk of cervical cancer (+/- 0.65%). Do you worry about traveling in cars? Probably not and that’s because you haven’t had a terror campaign rammed down your throat for many years.
Lung cancer is way more common than cervical cancer but have you been looking out ways to get lung screening? Probably not and that’s because you haven’t had a terror campaign rammed down your throat for many years.
It’s your choice if you want to screen or not but please remember you have been conditioned to feel this way. Don’t feel bad but just try your best to put it in perspective.
Tracey Caroline is so right! The new changes to the UK system are meant to be beneficial to women. Yet I’ve actually seen a post over on the PHE blog from a worried screener asking about the effects on their jobs.! Yes redundancy is awful…it’s happened to me.. but these are changes meant to benefit us…to help us and they’re more worried for their jobs! We can throw steel workers and BHS staff on the scrap heap in this country no problem but hey let’s keep these screener in work! Sorry..rant over and Kat out lol..
Well ladies I’ve done it now-I’m pregnant!! I use FAM so i know fertile day was October 10 and the first verrry faint line showed at 13dpo on October 23. I’m absolutely thrilled much more than i thought i would be but omg I’m so scared too! Not about the pregnancy I think that’s going fine but all the things Drs will want to do. Hubby is over the moon happy. He’s promised he’ll be with me through everything and won’t let anyone disrespect my wishes. I know it’ll be a while before prenatal appts start and I’m trying not to stress since that’s even worse for me and baby.
A dear friend (one of my bridesmaids) is a bit like me but to a lesser extent i think. and she absolutely adored her ob. Described her as a calming presence and said she was very mindful that Drs can be stressful. Maybe I’ll call her tomorrow and give her a try.
I’m so nervous about all of this! Everyone here has always been so knowledgeable and supportive. I hope you won’t mind if ask a ton of questions and maybe even moan and/or rant from time to time!
Hi Emily. Congratulations. I’m over the moon for you. Keep in touch
xx
Congratulations and very best wishes to you both.
Oh for goodness sake, actress Jaime Winstone has investigated how the human papillomavirus (HPV), and The Made In Dagenham star getting involved on the HPV vaccine debate about offering to boys!! Unbelievable!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-12132676/jaime-winstone-warns-of-the-health-risks-of-oral-sex
Thinking the HPV problem is also related to the ridiculous lifestyle of youngsters today, they eat a lot of crap and do not take care of themselves. They like to party late, sleep less and drink excessively, some also smoke!
There is another link in this article taking you to BBC 3 blog http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcthree/2011/01/60seconds-sam-jaime-winstone-on-the-dangers-of-oral-sex.shtml
This part stood out, common virus and slim chance of turning to cancer!! Says it all IMO!
“Well, Human Papillomavirus (HPV) is common. It lives in the skin and can be passed on through sexual contact. Cancer Research UK says there are more than 100 different strains of HPV and most of us are likely to get it at some point in our lives. But there’s no need to panic. Most people won’t get any symptoms and it usually goes away without treatment. So the virus may be common, but the chance of it turning into anything cancerous is slim.”
Morning All, I just came across this that I have never seen before and thought it may interest you:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Cervical+Intraepithelial+Neoplasia&term=&cntry=GB&state=&city=&dist=
A little old but I selected the first Trial (completed) & it states- “Cervical cancer is the most common cancer in women under 35 years and is a major public health concern” UTTER RUBBISH OF COURSE! & the usual ways of intervention to increase uptake…..yawn LOL. And screen figures fell
In the under 30s London population, average coverage only reached 50% in 2013!
Year on year the uptake figures decrease. It is interesting to read and worth a quick look.
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/10/the-ellen-show-broadcasts-potentially-harmful-information-about-ovarian-cancer-screening.html
They quote (sounds a bit like cervical screening to me):
Many women report pain from transvaginal ultrasounds.
Women will be falsely reassured. That is unethical and cruel
Many women who get these unindicated ultrasounds will have findings that are likely benign, but it will take more (expensive) testing to prove that or even possibly surgery — surgery that would never have been needed if it were not for the unindicated ultrasound.
And then this part (but it’s ok in cervical screening to use Celebrities):
Celebrities have great influence on health care decision-making, and they should be mindful of that privilege. Information about ovarian cancer should come from a doctor, not from an actor who plays a doctor on television.
What a crazy world we live in!
http://www.histmodbiomed.org/witsem/vol38.html
I found this discussion on the history of cervical screening, which has some interesting highlights mainly from page 62 onwards. You can download the full brochure of the meeting. Before that there is a discussion about how the causes for cervical cancer were discovered from about page 30 onwards. Of note is how they managed to photograph cervices in virgins – apparently it was common for virgins to present at hospitals for a “stretch operation” before their wedding night, and the anaesthetised women provided a ready supply for the scientists to build up a collection of photographs of virgin cervices for their research. Another highlight is how the Coronation Street story of Alma scared women witless into screening. The speaker talks of how they’ve tried so hard to convince women that smears are nothing to be afraid of, but that the only thing that boosts attendance is to terrify them into going. How very funny…
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/10/prostate-cancer-screening-campaigns-are-giving-men-the-finger.html Copied some snippets below that they consider about men’s screening ……….but not with women’s screening i.e. harms/treated unnecessarily/informed decisions etc.
After years of going through the perfunctory DRE from my own doctor, I finally challenged him about the evidence. That was a couple of years ago. He hasn’t put the glove on to give me the finger ever since.
Nearly 100%? I recall one observer saying about such a statistic, “Hmmm. Almost as if it’s not a cancer.” Indeed, early detection may mean finding something that would never harm a man in his lifetime but would still end up being treated. detecting many things that won’t cause harm.
There are benefits—and harms—to screening and men should be helped to make informed decisions that best reflect their values and preferences.” In other words, a fully-informed shared decision making discussion between patient and physician is needed, not a “no excuse” mandate.
these campaigns do a disservice to uninformed men. It’s an absurd way to conduct an awareness campaign. It may raise awareness of the comical creativity of an advertising agency but does nothing to deliver the facts that men need to make an informed decision.
This approach and thought is not even considered with women…just suck it up & get used it crap!
I’ve been on one today people!!
Hi Chas. So glad ‘you’re on one.’ The article highlights the differences between how men and women are treated. There are almost no articles about informed decision making for women. This basic human right is not afforded to us. It was never afforded to me.
In the previous article you posted they state that CC is the most prevalent cancer in under 35 yet they do not go on to admit how rare it actually is. This is a gross exageration of CC rates. I think the statistic is currently 3 in every 100 000 women. They also tell how they are going to start rolling out texting women in the London area. ‘Your cervical screening test is now due’ This is exactly how the ‘invites’ used to be worded. No promotion of choice or pro’s and cons of screening. Just your test is now due end of conversation. It goes to the very fundamentals of lack of respect for women.
Its not just the UK. Its everywhere. Globally, doctors have colluded with governments to over ride the human rights of women everywhere to ensure that we have this unpleasant examination at all costs. I think America and Canada are worse but in India and China and probably North Korea too its compulsory. Thank God so many women in Britain are waking up and refusing this test. I read in London the rate is now low as 50% .
If I had had the choice all those years ago I would have refused. That stupid practice nurse who sexually assaulted me and then another time the test caused me to abort my baby. To date no department of the NhS, Conservative government, Healthwatch or PHE has had the good manners to reply to my letters. The collusion to silence women runs deep.
Eliz posted the other week that medical news today has removed its posts about painful smears. The news really passed us by and none of us made a fuss at the time. It was only the other day when I tried to access the site that it home to me that the Nazis are very much at work trying to control their version of reality. They shut down the site basically because it wasn’t in line with their way of thinking. I wonder how many others are disappearing without us noticing. I also can;t find the one about women complaining about spontaneous abortions after smears. I hope this one never goes.
And don’t think for one moment PHE and Anne Mackie is on the side of women. She is a pro screening Nazi just like all the others who would like to take freedom of choice away from women. I get that impression from the way she colludes with that other idiot Robert Music.
The other day on one of the morning programme that doctor Hillary was going on about how it only takes 3 minutes and women should just get on with it. What does a man know?
I wished, as I was watching it a bunch of us, would storm the studio, hold him down and perform an unwanted genital examination on him for three minutes!!!!
Personally I have no trust of doctors. Their mind set towards women and choice is rotten to the core. Notice how no doctors ever post here about how sorry they are about the way they have treated women in the past. The silence says it all.
Hi ladies..latest from cervicalhealthhannah Instagram. She links to a BBC radio clip. All women must start taking their smears seriously (really? Why?) ..sorry naughty kat. Anyway she asks how can we encourage women to go? One comment…it’s only5 minutes most women spend longer for g their brows!! Oh really! Just like a smear is just like the Opticians lol…..
I had one woman on Twitter saying going for a smear is just like going to the dentist. Errrrrr, not sure what your dentist has been doing but I’m not sure that’s a very sensible comparison LOL
I’m also sick and tired of this ‘you’ll wax your bikini line but won’t get a smear’ rubbish that gets shared. A wax is something you want to do with a beautician who isn’t an authority figure and who isn’t rooting around in there. It’s not an invasive medical exam you might not actually want but have been bullied into or summoned to. Ultimately it’s about control, you feel in control at a beauty appointment but many women don’t feel in control at a medical appointment. That’s wrong but realistic.
The comparison is ridiculous! Rant over 🙂
I can only take so much of these “self-styled healthcare advisors” like cervicalscreen1. Have you noticed how on social media they are always egging others on, saying how brave women are to put themselves through testing. Congratulating one another that they have been through this rite of passage to big girliehood. They are terrified women will break ranks and separate from the herd, leaving them to feel that they are the ones left who have to go. The ignorance is deafening. The whole system is constructed to ensure true knowledge and evidence never gets out.
I viewed a conversation between two nurses recently. They were discussing the lack of training for smear takers. They claimed the theory was good but practical skills lacking. They were being let loose on the British public with little practical skills. I’d always suspected this. When one mentioned this to supervisor, was told to just “Go out and go for it!”. These people really don’t know what they are doing. You cannot discuss anything with them because they know a lot less about it than we do. It is a bastion of ignorance, fear and bullying which keeps it all going, and prevents informed consent from ever coming into play.
Cervical health hannah is excited the spice girls are re uniting for a concert. She suggests we show real girl power…how?
By booking for our smears of course
I saw that and felt a little sick LOL
OMG……just sick!
The smear test doesn’t exactly fit with the profile of informed, empowered and educated women within the current #MeToo era does it?! She might hit a snag when it comes to discussing informed consent. Oops….
Michelle Keegan vlogs about her cervical cancer screening http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46172802
Is someone desperately trying to raise their profile? 🤮
Business is slow…. 😂
Hey ladies, the last smear test I had was 2 years ago when I was 29. It came back as borderline and scared me so much. I then went on to have a the camra looking at the cells and the dr said I had hpv and told me to come back in 6 months which I did. He said it looked better but to come back again in another 6 months and yet again it was still coming back abnormal. I then decided to do some research and came across this site which has helped me so much. I thought it was strange how so many of my friends and relatives have had treatment for abnormal cells as if it was normal. I felt so weird about the whole thing I have decided not to go back and have opted out of the programme. I have days when I worry but am trying to trust in my body!
There is a self-testing kit available online (Please google the “Delphi screener”).
It is generally recommended that women under 30 are not tested for HPV as the virus can be transient in that age group and often disappear by the time women are around that age.
This is the reason so many women were getting false positive results and receiving treatment that could often cause more harm than good.
This is the reason the test age was upped to 25.
Congratulations on finding this site – I hope you will find it helpful.
I suppose I shouldn’t laugh………………but…………I am LOL! Good old Capita aka Crapita!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46208137
More than 40,000 women in England have not received information regarding cervical cancer screening after a failure to send out letters by the NHS
Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, said the situation was “frankly appalling”.
“We know that, because of the nature of this procedure, many patients are already reluctant to attend these appointments, and therefore reminder letters are crucial.
“Incidents like this, therefore, will hardly inspire confidence in the system and risk even fewer women getting checked,” he said.
Apparently….No harm done – NO….really, oh what a surprise!
Forgive my sarcasm but I hate all screening now with a passion!
Naughty Crapita!
What’s frankly appalling is this idiot acknowledging that many women are reluctant to attend because of the nature of this procedure, but not suggesting or offering an alternative that patients are more comfortable with. How about widespread self-testing? But no, then they would lose control of women, and it would put too many in the program out of work. In socialized medicine it’s the program first, women last. In our insurance-based system in the US, it’s the industry first, women last. Notice a common theme here?
Hi Judy, it’s common because the UK government wants an exact replica of the US system in the UK. Makes mega bucks, that’s why they want to privatise it so that private companies can run it just like the US. Private companies are taking over “preventive healthcare” like screening because it is so lucrative, and the government is getting companies to take over any bits they can. I think this GP is lashing out because he wants to show how inneffective Capita is and wants a return to state control, at the expense of making women look stupid helpless creatures, of course.
I completely agree. He blatantly acknowledges many women don’t want to attend, the sub-text being we hound them with letters until they are screened..
I just tweeted back at them with this – “many patients are already reluctant to attend these appointments, and therefore reminder letters are crucial.” In other circumstances that’s known as harassment.”
Harassment is exactly what it is!
Wow Ada, that’s interesting. Kind of a fight between public and private healthcare with women being used as pawns. Its ironic that many in the US wish for a national health care program, but our politicians are in the pocket of big insurance companies, so its not likely to happen anytime soon. But this obsession with screening is apparently in both systems, and not likely to subside anytime soon with all the dough-ray-me it brings in. Unfortunately its one of the factors that drives the paternalism in women’s healthcare – got to keep women coming in for these supposedly life-saving screenings, otherwise the gravy train dries up.
Yes, that’s it exactly. We have a lot of private companies like Richard Branson’s Virgin Care running sexual health clinics, contraception and the like. I recently posted a survey they were running on why women didn’t go to screening. Obviously to research women’s views on how viable it is as a business if the uptake is falling year on year. Private companies are interested in cherry-picking the non-essentials of healthcare, while the car crash victims and emergency, end-of-life care is still picked up by the NHS.
“An incredibly serious situation” the doctor says 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Thank you C*apita 🖒
And of course the daily fail has jumped on the bandwagon totally outraged at the loss of life this will cause. ..
It sounds to me like the breast screening invitation failures a few months back. That ran into thousands, and there was talk of lives cost. A few weeks later they were forced to drastically reduce the figure and a few weeks after that it turned out that there was no error at all, but that the staggered entry age meant some women got their last invitation at 70 and others at 73. Only by then no-one was listening. It sounds to me this is a repeat exercise.
Wow that Daily Mail article is unbelievably long but made me laugh at the drama of it all!
Crapita strikes again! The woman in stirrups….why oh why?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6389197/Nearly-50-000-women-risk-cervical-cancer-NHS-error.html
Reading between the lines obviously very few lives (if any) are at risk here, but I bet it contributes to the many uninformed women panicking and helping to increase the attendance rates! If these women read the article properly there are many points that suggest the test just isn’t worth it looking at the numbers, but no…….they’ll all trot along!
Thanks for the info above about the GDPR rules regarding smear reminder texts. I had one last week only a few weeks after a pill prescription renewal appointment in which I said clearly to be taken OFF the surgery’s reminder list. They have a separate list to the national register.
I said the overtreatment rates were unacceptable to me, which the nurse didn’t grasp because – in order to convince me it’s worthwhile – she spelled out the conveyor belt you end up on as a good thing. “If this happens you’ll have tests every 6 months to keep an eye on it, and if this happens you’ll go straight to colposcopy and they can remove cells there and then if they see something wrong” – as if abnormal cervical cells are a medical emergency. People wait longer for treatment in A&E compared to women in colposcopy who are offered removal hours after their initial appointment. I have no idea how that’s ethical. People need a reasonable amount of time to make a decision about non-emergency care.
I’ve had a look at stuff for nurse training in smears, and they don’t appear to have training in what the harms are, answering questions from concerned patients or opting out of the programme. It’s not within their remit to do so, and yet they are often the only personnel a woman is likely to meet. All part of the plan to ensure that the only person who you can speak to, is not the person who can carry out your wishes to remove you from call up. I keep seeing special clinics being run here and there, asking women to come in and just have a chat about screening if they are not sure, and that you are under no obligation to have the test, but you can be certain that there won’t be anyone available who can have that discussion you want to remove your name from the recall list.
adawells – I agree there as I have looked at the training too. Also a concern is that they nurses have to perform a certain quantity of screens to keep their certificate, from memory I think it was at least 50 test per year, and the colposcopy staff have to have a certain amount too. So the numbers of women needed to practise on is huge as there are so many smear takers & colposcopists.
https://www.bsccp.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/colposcopy-training/trainer-trainee-guidelines/ COPIED & PASTED BELOW FOR COLPOSCOPISTS & MY WORDS IN CAPITALS:
“As a minimum standard the BSCCP/RCOG colposcopy training programme needs to produce sufficient colposcopists to maintain the status quo. There are currently approximately 2000 practising colposcopists in the UK, most of whom are BSCCP certificated.” THATS 2000 OF THEM IN THE UK….ALL MUTLILATING WOMEN TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO! IN THIS SITE I CAN SEE 150 COLPOSCPIES EACH ARE REQUIRED FOR THEIR TRAINING!
“If the professional life span of a trained colposcopist is 30 years, then the programme needs to produce 65 trained colposcopists a year. In fact, possibly only a quarter of trainees will complete training or continue to practice colposcopy in the UK so the training programme will need to enrol approximately 260 colposcopist trainees annually if the status quo is to be maintained.” THEY NEED TO TRAIN 65 NEW COLPOSCOPISTS PER YEAR BUT 260 TAKE THE TRAINING, 260×150=39,000 COLPOSCOPIES!
THOUSANDS OF WOMEN NEEDED ON THAT DAM COUCH TO TRAIN ON! MAKES ME SO MAD!
There is so much to read on this site but really worth a good look although I stuck to the Health Professionals & Education parts mostly, for now anyway. They have got an image gallery too of the cervix which are real pictures of these poor women. Imagine having photos of your vagina & cervix on file for all to see………..horrifying! Unbelievable the amount of wasted money on this crap!
I just saw this video for the first time on the same site:
https://www.bsccp.org.uk/colposcopy-resources/bsccp-debate-cervical-cancer-screening-audit-disclosure-is-of-no-benefit-to
BSCCP debate: Cervical cancer screening audit disclosure is of no benefit to patients
In this video, issues regarding the benefits and possible harms associated with cervical cancer audit and in particular the disclosure of results to women\.
A thought provoking debate on the process of disclosure of the results of cervical cancer screening audits.
https://www.bsccp.org.uk/colposcopy-resources/consent-in-colposcopy-what-should-trainees-know
This really has to be the worst screening programme ever!
“Crapita” have apologised LOL!
https://pcse.england.nhs.uk/news/
The risk to women of this incident is low and there is no current evidence of harm, but Capita nevertheless apologises to both the NHS and to the women whose correspondence was delayed.
They say they send nine million letters a year, but there are fewer than 5 million ‘invited’ for testing each year. So the rest are all begging letters a.k.a. ‘reminders’.
No “current evidence of harm”. Surprised they said that. That’s quite an indictment of screening – and a damning one at that! Capita clearly don’t rate these tests and don’t seem too bothered by the blunder.
Yet another campaign/blog & they don’t care about choices to not screen:
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2018/11/30/phe-to-launch-national-cervical-screening-campaign-in-march-2019/
•highlight the risks of cervical cancer
•highlight the preventative benefits of the often misunderstood screening test
•encourage women of all ages to respond to their screening invitation
•encourage women to consider booking an appointment if they have missed previous invitations
•aim to tackle issues of fear and embarrassment
The campaign will address a number of barriers to screening highlighted by this research.
These barriers include:
•lack of knowledge about cervical cancer and the purpose of cervical screening
•embarrassment about the test
•fear of pain
•fear that the test will result in a diagnosis of cancer
•the possibility of using a home-based self sample, which is being considered in a UK National Screening Committee consultation – DOUBTFUL OF COURSE!
Quoting women feel empowered when they screen LOL!
I feel empowered with informed dissent!
Same Chas. ..I feel empowered now I no longer feel agonising pain and complete violation due to life saving smear test lol…
It’s definitely a huge relief not going anymore, just so angry I went in the first place, down to their deceit/hounding of course……until I found all you lovely people here on FWEO and on the old blog critics site, I will be forever grateful to you all x
This organisation knows damn well some women simply don’t want a smear test but they will never acknowledge this fact. Instead they sight barriers that need to be ‘overcome.’ They play down the fact of ‘choice’ as much as they can.
Sorry to go on yet again, i know i’ve become a pain over it , but they never gave me any choice. My blood boils when i think of what they got away with.
I’m so glad younger women are thinking for themselves and doing the research. Perhaps they even find their way to a site like ours and read our experiences as well as the articles and comments.
Young women need to be ‘firm’ with these people who wont take ‘no’ for an answer.
Also apparently the over 50’s which for some reason they want to target. Me thinks the over 50’s are more likely to be ‘dissenters’ like me. If i get some unwanted text i will not be happy.
I am so angry about reading this. It was bad enough thinking we’ve got to sit through Ms Goody appearing across the media again next March with the anniversary bio pic, but it looks as though they’re planning a number of things. I see they are only going to talk about the benefits and no mention of choice at all. I posted recently on PHE’s screening blog, but the posts don’t even appear to wait in moderation anymore. They reply weeks later privately using your email address. I think it took them aback that some of us contributed so forcefully last year, and they don’t want a repeat of that. Ditto the Daily Fail.
I wonder what it is they’ve got planned.
What concerns me is that as the attendance levels are increasingly approaching the threshold levels, they are reverting back to coercive tactics. I’m apprehensive that we might get a repeat of the 80s where informed consent didn’t even exist (not for women anyway), and you’d have been laughed at for even mentioning it. The tone of these awareness campaigns suggests that they are becoming more militant. I expect a big push next year to get those figures back up. The only shining light here is that younger women in particular, don’t appear to be taking any notice.
Does anyone know if cervical screening is still referred to as a choice in the leaflets?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cervical-screening-description-in-brief
The latest leaflets are here. It does say it’s up to you, and since May this year, they’ve added the link to opt out on the very last line of the leaflet under Any Questions. I did read somewhere that they’ll be used when old stocks are exhausted so goodness knows when that will be. However the summons letter itself also says it’s your choice. A lot of women tweet their summons letter on twitter, so you can see what women are being sent. A good place to follow what’s going on and some lively discussions on screening on there at the moment!
AQ, I got a summons a few weeks back and both the letter and the sales brochure mention that it’s our choice. Or course it’s never really a choice if the screening Nazis have decided that compliance with orders is the only ‘valid’ choice.
Well, I’m sure they’re panicking over the possibility of their wonderful program crumbling due to loss of bums on seats, and I wonder if the recent issues with the screening programmes have had an impact on their thinking too? We’ve had the case in Ireland, and the recent cock-ups with the breast/cervical screening invites – although we all know, of course, those were not the disasters they were made out to be. So perhaps part of this awareness frenzy is a response to the damage done by those shocking (not really) failures with the system. Perhaps they think some women have lost faith in the system now they’re aware that their lady parts are in the hands of companies like Crapita and not the super-trustworthy NHS (lol).
I’ve noticed over the past few weeks that Jo’s Tosh seems to be – on the surface, of course – changing tactics. We all know that this awful ‘charity’ has been using the dirtiest tactics to browbeat young women into testing, yet a few days ago a friend of mine pointed out a tweet from Robert Music, who was complaining about an article being insulting to non-screeners. I skimmed this article, it’s the usual ’embarrassed, unaware’ crap that we’ve seen a thousand times before. The only difference is that there’s no comment from Music, the guy’s usually all over these articles like a rash. I said to my buddy that maybe he’s complaining about this article, which is no different to all the others he’s endorsed, because he’s offended that that they didn’t approach him so he could advertise his business – sorry, charity?
Also, a London radio station gave a little airtime to a rep from Jo’s recently, and while I shut most of it out (bad for my blood pressure if I don’t), she was waffling on about some women who may have difficulties with testing due to psycho-sexual issues.
Odd, isn’t it. They’ve been calling us all the names under the sun for years, but now they’re pretending to care about our feelings? I’d like to think that the numbers of women who’ve found the courage to fight back against this abuse has grown, and the message has finally got through to these fanatics that a lot of women despise their precious test. However, I’m more inclined to think it’s just a new battle strategy now that the programme’s in danger – if you can’t bully them into submission, treat them with kindness instead of cruelty.
Yes Ada, Twitter is on fire at the moment! The CEO (or similar) from the Eve Appeal has just jumped on one of our threads and said we shouldn’t be having a conversation on the downsides of screening in public!
The pro screening zealots and charities do seem rattled.
Caroline, I’ve had my eye on that thread. Funny how, when you challenge their beliefs, the pro-screeners always demand proof of your claims but have nothing to offer themselves? They just expect people to believe what they’re told, it’s almost like an organised religion, with them leading the flock. And we are the wolves trying to creep in trying to lead the sheep astray.
These people, whether they are the brainwashed sheep or their self-serving leaders who need ‘survivors’ to support their cause, start an argument hoping to make us look foolish in front of their followers, yet in the end they only succeed in making themselves look foolish. Good.
Has anyone pointed out to this Eve’s Trust woman that we are not in North Korea (ladt time I checked 🤔).
In a democracy, no topic is off limits for discussion including their beloved screening programme.
This is a sign of desperation though… and I love it! And the more desperate they become, the more irrational and bonkers they’ll seem.
You know what, it’s occurred to me that whenever we have dealings with these plonkers, whether it be heated exchanges on Twitter, PHE or the Daily Fail, we should be aiming to make them look stupid and irrational.
This is the tack they’ve used for decades to attack us. They’ve also used the old female stereotype of hysteria to make their point, which is thoroughly reprehensible.
Well, I say fight fire with fire. These people are getting ever more desperate and their arguments ever more ridiculous.
An idiot challenging informed choice proponents should be asked, what problem they have with a full and informed discussion of screening in the 21st century? Is it not sensible that a discussion takes place as the resultant treatment for “abnormal cells” is not insignificant. We would challenge any other procedure without condemnation, why does cervical screening in a modern democracy get a free pass? Is it not ignorant NOT to do so?
These cretins need to be shown up for the idiots they really are.
Finding this website and reading the advice from you all, and following the links you helpfully provide has empowered me. I’m almost to the finish line of getting my name removed from the screening database, just awaiting confirmation back from screening authority. I couldn’t have done it without you. Thanks ladies!
I have also read the PHE Screening Blog and I’ve tried to put a comment on it but when I start typing it out it ends up be a very angry one and I know it won’t end up going on, I have tried to tone it down but every time I go on that site my blood start to boil.
Linda you go on as much as you wish…we’re all here to listen! You are right that they will never acknowledge dissent as informed.
And here is another from the BBC – this infuriates me! Other women should not be sharing their test experience….its private, what is wrong with these women! Attention seeking too I guess.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-46387197
A photo shared by Rebekah Vardy as she waited to undergo a smear test has prompted many women to book their own screenings, a charity has said.
And all those women totally “uninformed” who were reminded to attend there smears.
Using her fame and her influence just like all the other twats out there that think they have a right to get involved with other’s screening! OH look Jade Goody gets a mention yet again!
If I get a text then I shall be calling them with a complaint along with an attitude, I don’t want texts regarding my vagina thank you very much!
I don’t think for one moment women were encouraged to book a test based on Ms Vardy getting her bits out. Where is the evidence?
They dabbled on the edge, didn’t they?
They were even bold enough to use the words, “it’s your choice” in one of the UK brochures, but what happened, lots of women exercised that choice, no, thanks!
So now it’s back to damage control, wheel out the old tactics, continue to treat women like public property to be used, exploited and harmed as they see fit.
The program is too expensive, it needs high numbers to justify the vast expense, it doesn’t work with choice.. and too many rely on the income from consults, unnecessary biopsies etc.
It will take a lot to let this cash cow go, but I view this program a bit like a fish in a pond being drained, eventually nothing will work…when numbers fall below a certain level, they’ll be forced to make changes.
They can do as they like, give us your worst…it simply doesn’t work on informed women, they just sound like increasingly desperate and pathetic liars.
Did anyone notice a couple of articles posted in the Daily Mail about Robert Music bleating on that a record 5 million women had now failed to show up for their screenings (naughty naughty, lol) over the last few days?
I noticed a few familiar names. I now post under the pseudonym of JeweloftheIsle.
What the b***ers did was initially ensure that all the comments were moderated then they took off the filters. By the time my post was published, a few pro-screening posts had been up for some time with lots of suspiciously upvoted green arrows.
The tone in green arrows soon changed though, with a few women asking about the Delphi Screener. I love challenging these people lol. They are so fanatical about screening, it’s bizarre.
What I notice is that when I present a lot of evidence to a gobby screening fascist, they quieten down.
I challenged at least three nurses and pointed out the overtreatment rates, test inaccuracies, informed consent and why the NHS was refusing to roll-out the self-test nationally. I also pointed out their lack of knowledge. No response. But then again, as they couldn’t refute any of ny claims, I suppose that they didn’t have an answer for me.
Hi everyone – what a great website here. What a relief to see that I am not the only person who is against these types of medical procedures. Thanks to you all for putting this information out there.
Apocalyptic Queen, I saw your comments on the Daily Mail website challenging all the pro screening posts. Well done for that!! I am very against cancer screening for myself and have never had a smear test. I hate the way it is rammed down our throats and we are made out to be ‘silly girls’ for not screening. I have my own personal reasons for not going and I never will go. Nothing anyone says will scare me into going.
That Daily Mail site had quite a number of articles about smear tests this week. Most of the comments were from pro screeners and berating those who don’t screen. Some of them are quite venomous. It’s like they can’t stand that anyone isn’t putting themselves through what they are putting themselves through.
Like someone mentioned on this site, it’s like there is a conspiracy to collate a database of vaginas. I am certain there is another reason for the pressure on women to screen for an uncommon illness than purely for the good of our health. There are plenty of more common cancers that no-one is bothered about screening for, yet it’s always the ones that involve women’s intimate areas that are pushed on us.
I believe that the origins of this test were rooted in perversion and they are still to this day driven by perversion. Even the photos that accompany articles about it show women spread-eagled, and things about breast screening show young women in the mammogram machine and young women’s bodies topless with their hands strategically placed to cover them but still leave enough on show, which is not even accurate considering it is older women summoned for screening. It is sexualising medical tests and it’s all wrong.
It’s portrayed as though the only choices are screening, or death from cervical cancer. Never is there a mention that it’s an uncommon illness and the vast majority of women will never be troubled by it. They’ve got thousands and thousands of women thinking they are ‘survivors’ when they would never have developed the illness in the first place!
This is a wonderful website and a great escape from the oppressive world of cancer screening. I’m only sorry I didn’t discover it sooner, as I had largely avoided the medical profession until a serious illness a few years ago. It was Elizabeth who told me about this site. Eternally grateful for everyone on this site. So much useful information. I’m very interested in the history of this testing and how it came about and like you I believe it has its roots in male control. The sexualised images for it are everywhere. Note that in the UK we have a lot of glamourous models promoting their smear test in glorious colour, so keen to give tantalising views of their open thighs on the couch, and yet they claim a lot of women don’t go because they are ashamed of their less than perfect bodies. Whole business is so vile.
Haha yes!! I think Jo’s Tosh must dread seeing my pseudonym appear everytime there’s an article about cervical screening! 😂😂
I’m quite persistent about challenging all the nonsense the pro-screeners come up with. Quite often, I’ll bombard them with evidence and questions to such an extent that they stop replying to me! They rarely have an answer for me once I present them with evidence (as opposed to insults!).
I’m so glad there are people out there like you who read my posts and take some degree of knowledge and comfort from them.
Yes, these women are quite vitriolic aren’t they?! It always puzzles me how they can be so invested with someone else’s business, but it makes challenging them all the more fun!
We’ve been silenced by these people for far too long and quite frankly, it’s more than time for them to be put in their places!
It isn’t about telling them not to screen after all, it’s about giving them all the information to enable them to make an informed choice.
I still post on there but under a different pseudonym.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46116262
Some people are saying this is sexist and shouldn’t be done nowadays but I had no hesitation entering what object of female oppression I would want to throw into the rubbish bin!
I just had a look and submitted a comment. Hopefully if enough of us mention it an interested journalist might pick it up. I doubt it but it’s worth a try.
I have also submitted a comment.
Same. They have an engagement ring on there ffs. Really??!!!!
I have also stated the obvious!
I submitted a comment too…Let’s see what happens
my comment:
“Speculum, stirrups, gynecology itself. Abusive, infantilizing, makes $ pathologizing female anatomy, stripping women of informed consent.”
There was a mention a short time ago about nurse training for smears leaving a lot to be desired. I’m on a FB group for women who have problems after Leep, and a lady posted about her experiences, here’s part of the post:
‘I had Lletz 6 years ago, following CIN3 which was deep and widespread. I was also cauterised due to a heavy bleed from an artery which was damaged. This was done without any pain relief as it was an emergency (the heavy bleed started once I had gone home). The whole situation was traumatising to me.
6 years on I am STILL having extremely painful periods. I was warned my cervix was extremely small and I was told I had scarring.
Well, this week has been the final straw after a failed smear test attempt. The nurse can’t find my cervix and I’m due back in 2 weeks where there will be 2 nurses to prod and poke about.
My last smear test was 3 years ago and it was extremely painful to the point of tears down my face. I am terrified of going back for my the next attempt.’
I advised her to avoid those nurses at all costs – see a trusted doctor and explain the problem if she’s still intent on having testing. It sounds very much like the nurse was a noob, lacking in skills or experience, and this idea of having two nurses present the next time sounds like a training exercise! How on earth can anyone with any compassion think it’s ok to traumatise a patient like this, just so they can get a freaking sample?
Tell her to purchase an HPV self-testing kit online and tell her to firget further testing if she’s HPV-
Tell her she’s had the LLETZ done despite a 20% chance of getting cervical cancer and that this has not been xommunicated to her to keep women testing.
What they have done to her amounts to savagery.
And tell her to file a complaint against those numpty nurses!
I did mention the HPV self-testing, but you have to be careful in a group like this not to come across as too militant – many of them are recent victims and are still dazed and confused. I do try to put some real info across but I don’t think it always sinks in.
I’m usually only ever militant with the avid pro-screeners on the Daily Mail though!
Ah, yes. And they are victims who show trauma as a result of the callousness that they have experienced.
She needs time to think about other options and whether she even wants (or needs) to go back to that appointment. Those nurses are way too eager and need to back the hell off. It’s another consequence of dismissing women’s fears about this test as if it’s nothing.
I agree with you about the message not sinking in. Rarely do I have anyone responding to me about this online, after they’ve given me a deluge of verbal abuse.
Some of them will claim to be curious about the Delphi Screener and start asking questions about it. Only then do I get the sense that they’ve taken on board the fact that there are other options out there.
Absolutely shocking. Her HPV status should be a priority for checking before anything else is done. This is the problem I have long suspected with the UK programme. In the US you have rained gynos doing this job, in the UK they have moved the same procedures to semi-skilled people with basic medical training. None of them have extensive knowledge about the test and what they are doing. Passed from one procedure to another. This must go down in history and the pooled comments from these support groups become public knowledge of what is really going on. So sorry for all these harmed women. Thank goodness I got out when I did.
I meant “trained” not rained.
Another thought on this is that I honestly think this is why they’ve hurried in the HPV vaccination before thorough testing, because the harm caused by smear testing has been more severe and widespread than they planned.
I beg to differ, Ada. Merck lost billions due to the Vioxx scandal, I think they were just desperate to find something else to fill up the coffers. If the powers-that-be were at all concerned about the harms caused by this god-awful test, they would have spent the millions they squander on ‘awareness’ campaigns on researching a more accurate test.
But no, there’s an industry, and it needs to be fed.
The only “silver lining” with this is that it is easier to challenge a nurse who knows sweet FA. You’d hope wouldn’t you that a woman seriously contemplating whether to opt out of the cervical screening programme, would be put off by someone who hasn’t a clue what they’re saying, let alone doing. The saying, “knowledge is power” really couldn’t be truer in this situation.
I am the founder of the group for talking about LEEP problems on Facebook. It is so horrible when this happens as there is no warning about the possibility of this level of destruction on the cervix. And when they go back for a smear the nurse will often say that she ‘’can’t find the cervix’’ as if it’s somehow hiding away when in reality so much hasbeem removed that it’s hardly there anymore.
I’ve often wondered why male contraceptive options have been so slow in development, or so it seems…
A scientist told me about 8 years ago they could make a male pill but it was viewed as “ not sufficiently commercial” so not enough money in it. I’ve heard that men wouldn’t use it, women wouldn’t trust their partner to use it, but I also wonder if like the go-slow with the development of a non-invasive screening test for cc, they also didn’t want the freedom a male pill would give to some women. We know the pill consult is always used to get women screened, so they definitely wouldn’t want women, perhaps a lot of women, with no need for the pill or that consult.
There’s a push here for access through a pharmacist, obviously to save Medicare all the unnecessary consult fees, especially now the program calls for less testing.
Naturally, the AMA and others are screaming that it’s unsafe for women…such hypocrites, they’ve knowingly over-screened and over-treated women from the very beginning of this program…so many women left with damage, psych and physical damage. We all know who they’re worried about and it’s certainly not women.
They’ve blocked access to the Delphi Screener here, shortly before the new program started, IMO, to force women into the program, even if it’s self-testing on their terms.
The profession and other vested interests have used women appallingly, change has only occurred as more women became informed and/or walked away from the screening program. (Often after a traumatic experience with over-treatment)
But…It’s getting harder and harder for them…and that’s a very good thing for women.
Just remember 77% of Australian women who followed our program (most forced or misled) have had something done to their cervix…and to think the cancer itself was always rare in this country and in natural decline. Speaks volumes that the medical profession were so aggressively in favour of this testing…and on any terms, coercion was even acceptable to get to that cervix. It shows a shocking lack of respect for the female body, and for women generally. I’d say it’s far more than a lack of respect…far more.
I recall that a similar argument was made about the HPV vaccine.
Can’t risk losing all those women can they?
Smelling a rat, a few women were (rightly) questioning why smears would still need to be undertaken despite the introduction of the vaccine, and were given the feeble response, “well, the vaccine doesn’t cover all strains of cervical cancer”.
Yet, even as some of them (reluctantly) acknowledge, adenocarcinoma starts higher up in the cervix so it is almost impossible to detect via a smear!
Do you know where you read about adenocarcinoma starting much higher up in the cervix? I’d love to share it.
Hi KT – I don’t have a reference to hand. I will look for you. I know two women I’ve conversed with online who have said that they either received a cancer diagnosis or their close relative did, yet they were also informed that the cancer would not have been picked up via a smear as it is an adenocarcinoma that has started much higher up in the cervix.
Probably better resources out there but a couple of bits of info here:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3435064/stunning-dancer-31-is-diagnosed-with-cancer-after-five-clear-smear-tests-missed-orange-sized-tumour-throttling-her-cervix/
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/cervical-cancer
KT – In a nutshell, adenocarcinoma is a rarer form of cervical cancer that develops in the gladular cells that line the cervical canal. This tidit was revealed (albeit begrudgingly) by the spokesman of Jo’s Toss(ers) himself!
*I mean, glandular cells*
I’ve been thinking about these new “awareness” campaigns (every new “trendy” cause sesms to have one, sick of hearing about them to be honest), that they plan to run in the new year.
Much has been made of offering women “flexible” appointments, ie. Tesco open all hours surgeries.
I have also heard of them rabitting on about employers and how women don’t want to ask their employers for time off to attend screening.
Without giving too much away (lest one of the pro-screening minions might be monitoring these threads), I hope they’re not thinking of hassling employers about this.
I know that some local authorities have explicit policies stating that you can take the time off to attend screening without incurring a day’s leave but get this… any “follow-up” appointments would be classed as annual leave. Rather pointless considering 63% of women “require” LEEP or cone biopsies under the conventional system.
With regards to mental health and other social issues, there have been drives to train and “raise awareness” amongst employers. There can be pros and cons to this. The cons may mean some employers “monitoring” their staff’s behaviour, coming to unfounded conclusions, and potentially, being overly intrusive.
My fear is that in order to increase take-up, there might be some drive that sees employers being encouraged to hold some very awkward conversations with their female staff.
I think in most cases this line about not being able to get time off for screening is just another excuse, really, an easy way to wriggle out of confessing they just don’t want a bloody test! Why on earth would a woman need to explain to her boss what the doctors appointment is for? If the boss asks questions, it means they’re either concerned for your health (or whether you’re going to be an asset or liability), or they’re the kind of git who work their staff to the bone and throws a fit if you want time off for anything. Either way, you’re not obliged to explain the gory details, a ‘routine health check’ should be adequate.
Remember the Demos ‘research’ where they were pointing out that when women developed CC the poor old government was missing out on their hard-earned taxes? (Boo hoo.)
With working women expected to take time off to get tested, go for investigation, surgery,
recovery, health problems caused by ‘treatment… if I were running a company, I would view screening tests as a liability to my business.
So, apparently lots of women want to go for testing but can’t get time off work, or can’t get an appointment, but at the same time we’re told we’re not going because we’re stupid and lazy? Hmmm.
I agree that they are making excuses because they want to avoid confrontation.
I’m raising this point because I’m due to start another job. And having read through the T&Cs, I’ve seen a reference in there to taking time off to have smear tests. I’m shocked too and most women wouldn’t dare tell their employers what they need the time off for!
But with this “can’t get an appointment” $hit, Jo’s Tosh has really jumped onto it. I’ve seen more and more awareness and training for managers for all sorts of issues recently.
And don’t get me wrong, I agree it can be a good thing, but I’ve also seen enough to also spot a few negatives.
A woman in an organisation was pulled in for lack of performance. Before she’d had a chance to think, she was disclosing all sorts and was referred to Occupational Health. It later came out that she was being bullied by the very manager who’d vonducted the referral. I suppose this can highlight that the problem was “nipped” in the bud, but it can also show how symptoms of under-performance can also be blamed or presumed to be as a result of that individual’s “mental health”.
I know of an organisation whose staff was trained to recognise symptoms of DV. One member of staff was approached during a 1:1 and was asked if she was being abused – her unwillingness to discuss her private life (she’s a private person) and her love of long-sleeved tops cited as a reason.
The shortcomings of being “over-zealous” in their approach can equally be as damaging.
Going back to my point about screening, the Jo Tosh propaganda has obviously been picked up by some employers over the country who have felt it necessary to include a proviso that women be given time off to attend screening.
But my concern is that as with other social or health issues, the discussion of screening (such as, “have you been screened recently”, “do you need time off to attend your screening”) becomes the proverb of employer-employee discussions as a result of these ever more militant awareness campaigns and hare-brained ideas conceived by the likes of Jo Tosh and PHE.
Hopefully, they won’t be able to venture down that road and maybe I’m just being pedantic about the whole thing.
You know, there are a lot of ill-informed men who think women are privileged to have our lady parts put under surveillance and are angry that men don’t get equal treatment when they should really be counting themselves lucky. The imbalance is turning some of them into misogynists. I can only imagine what these men would think of us lucky ladies if employers make special allowances for women to trot off for their oh-so-vital smears. What if a man wants a PSA test, is he allowed to bunk off for a few hours too? No? Sexist!!!
It’s all getting so ridiculous.
Kate – They do inadvertently highlight an interesting observation though, which is, why are medics so obsessed over women’s parts in comparison to theirs?!
I feel like saying to them, be my guest! At least, there’d be more “equality” in the misdiagnosis, and the overtreatment rates!
Our GP surgery is part of a group, all of which cover different opening hours, so if you are mobile you can get an appointment anytime, anywhere. Staggered that so many are saying they cannot get an appointment. As you say, they are probably wanting a reason not to go, and this is as good as any.
Consent has never been respected for women, add the enormous pressure placed on us to screen, along with all the scare campaigns and many women feel they need an excuse not to screen. Over and over we’re told not to be embarrassed, doctors and nurses see thousands of women, the test is painless etc. etc.
So women look for a neutral excuse that throws it back on the medical profession, women know not to get into a debate about screening with GPs.
Now some couples were virgins before they met, I know a couple of women who were admonished by their GPs for declining Pap tests – “if your partner has an affair, you’re at risk of cc without pap testing”. Or, they were told all women should test regardless…
Don’t give them anything they can use against you, Papscreen have provided doctors with a list of ways to combat any “excuse” you might produce…
The program didn’t want women assessing their risk because it would have been obvious that screening would help very few, the risk of cc was so small. I think it would have been impossible to get huge numbers to screen when the risk of cc was so small, especially when the test was invasive. (painful for some women & initially the test was carried out by male doctors) In fact, the test was unacceptable to many women which should have ruled it out as a population screening test, but no one asked us, or wanted to know, we were TOLD that all women must or should screen…if they were responsible, mature and wanted to look after their health.
It didn’t come out for a long time that HPV was a sexually transmitted infection, again, they didn’t want women assessing their risk profile.
So I don’t believe all these women can’t get appointments, we all know that when we’re motivated, we’ll find a way, reality is…most of these women want to exercise their right to decline screening but the way the system has been set up the only way they feel they can…is to say they can’t get an appointment. It’s only been fairly recently that some women have felt safe enough to say, “I don’t want pap tests,, I don’t need to explain my decision, I don’t need an excuse not to screen”…
I think it’s a good idea to simply say to GPs, all screening is elective, I’ve decided not to screen or something general like that..if you get attitude, send off a complaint to the Clinic – it’s only then that they’ll get that..yes, we do have a choice.
A friend in her late 40s told her GP she wouldn’t be having breast screening, her GP replied, “wow, you’re brave”…she replied, “on the contrary, I think the women who screen are the brave ones!”…
Sad thing is most haven’t a clue about the actual benefit and the risks with breast screening, I know many screen in ignorance or out of fear or to comply with medical recommendations.
The sun newspaper has run an article about self test kits for women who don’t attend screening! Eve appeal are in favour too….
They can hassle employers but I can’t see the employs giving in. I work in a school and we have draconian policies. A routine smear would HAVE to be booked for weekend or holidays and those wishing to attend mammograms are asked if they can change routine ones to holiday time. If they really can’t then it’s grudgingly given as unpaid…..so good luck with that one Mr Music…..
I should clarify even a routine doc or dental appointment would 99% likely be refused in term time too….
Anyone fancy commenting on this?: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6464315/Women-offered-DIY-smear-test-kits-order-boost-cervical-cancer-screening.html?login
Thank you, currently commenting but 3 of mine did not make it through unfortunately! I’ll keep trying though LOL
Not sure how yours wouldn’t have made it yet my incessant babbling did! Maybe I pushed the boat out a bit too hard. I’ll re-evaluate next time. I bet Jo’s Tosh dreads seeing my username pop up everytime there’s one of these articles! 😂
I was having a conversation with a coworker. She confided in me that her 25 year old daughter had never had a Pap smear. I’m 34 btw . Well she also mentioned that her daughter was having bad cramps and periods back to back. I really didn’t wasn’t to argue with Getz. A few weeks latter this morning she was cheerful and said that she took her daughter to her wonderful Gyno. That she was diagnosed with indo. Then she proceeds to ask me when was my last gun exam and where do I go? I was like I haven’t had a gym exam in years I’m 34 and that was when I was 17 to be clear. I also told her that I had faith in my body. She then wanted to refer me to there wonderful gynecologist. I was polite but she got the message I was not interested and left it like that. I’m just like what business do these woman have asking about others exams . I just can’t . What’s wrong with these woman. And I did it want to know about her daughter going . I feel so annoy. Has Nyone experienced this where woman are raving about these gym and try to push others to go too. I just can’t.
Sorry my I phone changes my words. I hope you could undewhT I was saying.
They have stopped accepting comments on the daily mail link
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6464315/Women-offered-DIY-smear-test-kits-order-boost-cervical-cancer-screening.html?login
And this is why this paper is known as the Daily Fail. The UK is lagging way behind other countries and yet due to these idiot reporters, the people in this country have no clue what’s going on. I note there are two photos of a woman in stirrups, ffs, as if one’s not enough! Hey Daily Fail, if you’re going to start wittering on about British women, don’t use a stock photo of an American clinic, it’s false advertising, ok? Idiots.
Equally sick of these stock photos.
Let’s face it, it’s a very conservative paper with antiquated views about women and their place in society. We know why they’re using those photos don’t we.
But let’s look at the positives here… those photos are hardly going to encourage young women to go out and get tested are they??!
Another own goal there Daily Fail lol.
Speaking of stock photos, today the lovely Dr Phillipa Kaye, smear pusher and Jo’s Trust mouthpiece posted a series of photos comparing a speculum to a nutcracker!
Apparently the comparison is amusing and supposed to encourage women to go for a smear. Quite a few of us expressed outrage and she has since deleted the crazed post. Not only is it ridiculous but a nutcracker is hardly the most gentle item in the kitchen.
I guess anything passes as ‘awareness raising’ these days. They seem so desperate which deep down, kind of pleases me.
Sorry if this posts twice but worded slightly differently. WordPress was in a grump and said the first one didn’t post.
The desperation amuses me too and gives me great satisfaction 😁
Are they trying to give speculums a festive twist? 😂
You should have told her that a “nutcracker” was an apt way to describe her and the rest of the lunatics at Jo’s Toss.
I recently started working with some all woman staff . Doing elderly care. Every single one of these woman has discussed going to their gynecologist with me. I hate it and feel triggered. I don’t want to know anything about there exams. To make matters worse one of the older ladies told me her daughter who is 25 has never had a Pap smear before. She was raised out of state with her dad. She has come to live with her mom , my coworker. Well a few days ladder this same coworker was bragging about how she took her daughter to her gynecologist and how wonderful this doctor was. She looked confused when I politely declined her phone reference. “ she’s wonderful can I give you her number “. My face went white. I told this coworker that I did not see doctors unless I was having symptoms. She looked so confused and I am 34 never had a Pap smear. I didn’t know how to discuss this with all these brainwashed woman. You can live a life with out Pap smears. I just had to vent.
I also dislike women discussing the intimate details of their lives with me, medical procedures, women’s “problems” (sometimes in an office with other men) etc. If it’s in private with a friend or confidante who wants someone to talk to someone, then that’s fine with me. But I dislike preaching by other women about things like screening, pregnancy, romantic relationships, breastfeeding etc. It’s got to the point now that I will openly say, ” that’s private. I don’t want to discuss that. Thanks”.
Totally agree!
Has anyone else seen this?
http://www.nogracias.eu/2018/12/15/my-dismissal-is-scientific-judicial-murder-by-peter-c-gotzsche/
Hi Chas, this is all over the HPV vaccine. Cochrane produced a review giving the vaccine the green light, but Goetzsche wasn’t satisfied and said not all the research had been reviewed, and there were reports of severe side effects which were not being investigated, but big pharma pushed the review through and are behind Goetzsche getting kicked out of Cochrane. All very sinister, because the Japanese withdrew the vaccine because of adverse events. What do they know that we aren’t allowed to find out? I’ve heard that Cochrane is now in the pay of big pharma and is no longer the independent body it once was.
Yes, it’s concerning that they didn’t really address Peter’s concerns about the review of Gardasil. I read their response…and wasn’t convinced that was the full story.
Peter has always been a no-nonsense, very direct sort of person, naturally, you’d expect him to challenge any research that falls short or recommendations that are not supported by the evidence. I’d be very cautious with Gardasil, i’d never accept official recommendations, we know the vast profits that flow from vaccines and screening means vested interests usually influence recommendations.
Expelling Peter from the Board certainly won’t silence him, if anything, he’s likely to be even more outspoken. I sometimes wish Peter could dial it down a bit, I know some dismiss him as a bit of a ratbag or conspiracy theorist but I understand his anger.
When Peter referred to big pharma as organized crime, I understood what he was saying but I know that reference was viewed as an exaggeration by many…and they stopped listening.
I have enormous respect for Peter Goetzsche and a few others at the NCI…they gave me the information I needed to decline mammograms. When everyone is silent or just accepting of official recommendations, people like Peter and his team are our guiding lights. I’ll continue to follow Peter…and will be cautious with NC reviews in the future.
Thanks for your replies and info Ladies x I have just seen this today which is interesting.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/12/181217120035.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine%2Fcervical_cancer+%28Cervical+Cancer+News+–+ScienceDaily%29
A new test for cervical cancer was found to detect all of the cancers in a trial of 15,744 women, outperforming both the current Pap smear and human papillomavirus (HPV) test at a reduced cost, according to a new study.
Very interesting…they say it’s better than hpv testing and women will need fewer tests; I assume it’s another invasive test. Fact is for most women who want to test, a hpv self test would do the job and should take lots of women out of testing. I suppose this test may help to identify the small number of hpv+ women likely to have a real problem.
Thankfully, this research may provide some answers with other sorts of cancer too, i’m amazed at the seemingly limitless resources available to conduct research into cc and cervical screening. Very little progress has been made with brain or pancreatic cancer…the former takes many young lives. Also, those diseases that take quality of life like Parkinson’s disease or MS…in recent years here, millions has been raised for research to find a cure for MND.
Or if they’re so fixated on women’s health, where’s the reliable screening test for ovarian cancer? This cancer is considered rare but it’s much more prevalent than cervical cancer and takes many more lives. The fact that women are expected to undergo an invasive “well woman” exam each year when it does nothing to reduce the incidence of this deadly cancer is truly an insult to our intelligence.
A really interesting read. First time I’ve seen the accuracy of the pap smear honestly given so low a rating in any paper. Makes you wonder if the HPV vaccine has all been a waste of time.
Whenever I hear of something new in the women’s screening space, it makes me nervous, because screening is done to women, it’s never discussed with women or freely offered. (and can be freely declined) Also, the people making those decisions usually do what’s best for them and other vested interests, what’s best for women barely gets a mention.
For example the pap test was used conservatively in the Netherlands and Finland (they followed the evidence – so far fewer tests and not before age 30) so far fewer women were harmed by over-treatment.
Other countries knowingly launched into excessive and non-evidence based screening harming huge numbers and reducing the quality of life for screened women generally…
The HPV test is used WITH the Pap test in the States, there’s no additional benefit to women using both tests, but that practice makes a lot more money for vested interests with all the confusing results.
Here we’re doing HPV testing from age 25, the evidence says NO HPV testing before 30 – the evidence has also been clear for many years, pap testing is of no benefit up to age 30 but leads to lots of over-treatment. HPV testing the right way should mean far fewer tests and many women walking away after one or two tests. Self testing should be freely available too…if this testing was really about doing what’s best for women.
So a new development is not necessarily a good thing for women, it may well be used in a way that puts us in harms way yet again.
The only way to protect ourselves is to get to the evidence, make an informed decision and stand firm – I know that’s not easy when we’re dealing with the industry called women’s cancer screening.
I wish I knew what’s cooking in the UK camp. At the moment we have some parts of the country, like Wales, which have fully switched to HPV as first test, and some parts of England too, but we still have the old 3 yearly recall going on with no sign of any announcement that this will extend soon. So if a 25 year old in Wales, you will get first summons at 25, then 28, then 31, so 3 HPV tests before age 31. Fortunately uptake is as low as 63% in under 30s, but even still this is a lot of women putting themselves at risk of colposcopies in this age bracket. And Jo’s Tosh and other charities really gunning for the young women to go.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/could-this-be-the-end-of-smear-tests-new-urine-test-more-accurate-than-current-cervical-screening_uk_5c1b5cebe4b05c88b6f50402?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter
I’ve just seen this today, and it looks as though the new test may be a urine test…
Wow! Thank you adawells for the link. Although its a start it will still be kept aside for a long time, probably more than the 5 years they state.
I wonder though how many women from the herd will actually read this, or even understand it, as most I speak to who have had an abnormal and Lletz just don’t get it at all. Most don’t even know what HPV is let alone anything else. Shameful as they are so uninformed. And of course “I’m a cancer survivor” attitude applies “I could be dead now if not for the screening and treatment”! Its like they almost want it to be cancer and never open to any other explanation, so maddening it is! Thanks again, and lets see how many comments it gets, i.e. its all about cost and letting women down crap! Theres one there already.
It would be wonderful if the urine test could be brought in asap. Would assume nearly all women would visit their GP at least once in 5 years and the sample could be given then. No need to send out all those letters -they must cost the NHS a fortune. But what role then for Jo’s Tosh, just what purpose will they have? They seem to be very pro self-testing at the moment. It leaves me wondering if they want to push self-testing kits because the recall business and social control will still be in place for years to come and a lucrative business for Crapita and Virgin?
Wow I’m so glad i got the stupid jab at 16 and felt like crap for 3 days after possibly for nothing/sarcasm. At least we finally have something concrete to reflect what we already knew about paps.
On a brighter note I’ve successfully opted out of paps! I explained my position to my midwife and she agreed that the benefits probably wouldn’t outweigh the risks in my case. She also said that pelvic/breast exams aren’t really recommend anymore without good reason so I’m not likely to need one. She did counsel me on symptoms of infection/cervical weakness and did a urine test for cultures.
I also opted out of glucola! I’ve had an aversion to sugar and most carbs since I fell pregnant so it’s unlikely I’d be able to tolerate it. Even then dumping tons of sugar in after having little for several months will likely trigger a false positive. No way in hell am I going into hi risk over a stupidly innaccurate test! She advised most who get GD have preexisting abnormalities and ordered A1C along w the other bloodwork. If the numbers are off she’ll order me supplies for self monitoring. She even offered to look into doulas for me! So far I have felt very empowered and supported by everyone at CMMC. Maybe there’s hope for the ones like us afterall!
It sounds af if things have greatly changed since I had my kids in 1990’s! Best wishes and hope it’s a great experience and you get everything you wish for!
I felt really uncomfortable as they chased up young women here, really young women, including teenagers (a few/some were tested before they were 17) Of course, at the sametime they were doing research into Gardasil, cross checking Gardasil records with the Pap test records of young women – one senior doctors openly said that the cervical screening program should not be changed, raising the age o
Sorry, my cat posted that for me!
As I was saying, it was stated the screening age should not be raised UNTIL the research was complete – it was also, stated that Australia was in a unique position to do the research because we were one of the few countries still testing young women. It shows you have brazen they are, perfectly happy to test unnecessarily and to risk harming healthy young women.
I did read somewhere that the UK is not moving to HPV testing until late 2019, I’ll see if I can find the article.
NZ is still testing from age 20 right now, and Scotland only very recently raised the age from 20 to 25 in about 2016 – many years after England raised the age to 25. Seen a few times that this is for comparative research studies. They really don’t care. All that matters to them is their research and keeping the guinea pigs in the dark. Couldn’t care less about women’s feelings or experiences.
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2018/10/25/hpv-primary-cervical-screening-october-2018-update/
Sounds like they’ll start rolling out HPV primary testing in 2019, hoping to complete the roll out by 2020.
Thanks Elizabeth (Aust) Another good start but still I find somewhat late, and still the usual invasive exam to our precious cervix.
This part stood out also looking at results, letters, leaflets etc.
We are working with screening services, academics and charities to look at the current invitation and result letters and leaflets used in the programme for the public. The work will reflect the findings from a psychological evaluation carried out in the HPV primary screening pilot sites which looked at how women responded to being told about HPV primary screening.
I have just seen this link too but I think the must/should screen will still apply: https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2018/12/21/a-busy-productive-and-challenging-year-for-screening/
Millions of people benefit from screening each year and we usually make the headlines for all the right reasons. As you know, that has not always been the case in 2018 because of issues with the arrangements for inviting women in the breast and cervical programmes.
All these resources give NHS screening providers powerful tools to help make sure people understand the screening they are offered and to participate if they wish to.
We are currently consulting on screening for 9 different conditions, including breast cancer and cervical cancer, and the evidence team has already started work on reviewing a further 27 conditions in 2019.
Another 27 conditions……it just gets worse! How much do they want to spend on screening when the NHS is at absolute breaking point! It simply can’t cope with it surely?
Capita gets another mention….investigating why thousands did not get the summons! Maybe a disgruntled worker caused it….or an informed woman? Wishful thinking LOL
I agree, Chas, with concerns re the invitations, etc. Why do they need to do a psychological evaluation for heaven’s sake? Do they think we’re incapable of making the right decision for ourselves? Just give us the facts in the leaflets and put a reply slip on the bottom of the letter for those of us who have made an informed decision to opt out, it would be much simpler. I’ve been trying to opt out for the last 2 years. I’ve received 5 invitation letters in that period, despite following all the PHE/NHS guidelines on opting out, and was amazed this week to receive my third (yes THIRD) letter/disclaimer from PCSE saying “I understand that you do not wish the NHS cervical screening programme to invite you for future screening tests. I enclose the leaflet NHS cervical screening helping you decide, which explains the benefits, bla bla bla” Er, well, this is actually the eighth copy of this leaflet to grace my recycling bin, and if I’ve written to them on numerous occasions telling them I’m opting out, I’ve obviously already made that decision so why send another? Are they hoping I’ll come to my senses and stay on the programme??!! I returned the previous 2 signed disclaimers mid-November (strangely they arrived within a week of each other and I returned them both separately), so what’s happened to those? At this rate, I’ll be getting another standard invite letter shortly. Anyway, I will be signing my disclaimer AGAIN and sending it by registered post. I had recently made a complaint to PCSE which is why they have sent a disclaimer(s) (they have never responded to my requests in the past) and they are supposed to respond to complaints within 40 working days, so I should be hearing by 14 January. Watch this space… Thanks ladies for all for your advice which keeps me going!
Hi Julie,
This sounds terrible. Can you threaten them that they are in breach with the new GDPR (General Data Protection Regulations)? It’ a hot topic in the NHS at the moment, and they should stop sending letters as soon as you’ve asked them to stop.
The obsession with screening is very sinister.
I don’t believe they are as interested as they claim to be in disease prevention. This is all about monitoring people’s bodies.
In the case of cervical screening, I’ve always believed it was a case of outdated science underpinned by the desire to monitor women’s sexual activity.
Some women would undoubtedly be very open at their test and encouraged or even asked to divulge intimate details of their private lives, such as number of sexual partners, type of contraception used, thus providing a very interesting source of data for their GPs. Those GPs could then use that information at a later date to tell them that they are “overdue” and how important (given the circumstances) that they screen on time as “he” cannot give them their next pill script if they don’t submit.
The thinking behind it in my view was that giving women the pill and all that freedom, came with a price. The price that in return for the pill, they were expected to provide ready access to their bodies for three reasons, 1.) Male gratification and patriarchal control of women; 2.) Research purposes; 3.) Money.
The pill didn’t really provide freedom. It was swapping one form of control for another.
How many times have we heard of nurses and doctors interfering in women’s relationships by implying that their husbands were unfaithful? Likely, women have been led into discussing their sex lives and to justify them. It’s sickening.
It seems to me sometimes that we live in a society that is more interested with monitoring and controlling people’s bodies (I say people, because this morbid curiosity seems as though it’s gradually being extended to males), than it is about tackling crime ridden cities or serious offences etc.
I agree it is sinsister. I was reading about the witchunts and that any woman who looked ‘too sexual’ was accused of being a witch. The smear test seems to be a modern day version of that as now hpv is the marker of women’s sexual activity and they are treated for it with LLETZ. I’ve had the Lletz and it really destroyed my libido and caused all kinds of sexual problems. I’ve since used various healing modalities based on Tantra to recover my sexual function and discovered that the cervix is actually me of the most powerful, and orgasmic parts of a women’s body. I think on some unconscious level men have always known it and in patriarchal society they will try to suppress women’s sexuality whenever they can as it’s the way to suppress their power and self esteem.
This happened to me as well he was told by me that my husband and I were virgins when we married he implied that my husband might not of been truthful I said I can’t wait to get home and tell him the doctor has called him a liar and he should expect a visit as he is very confrontational the docs face was a picture no more pressure for the pap he was trying to do just an urgency to get me out of his office
Recently I looked up what “P” values meant in terms of pap scraping. While I never found a suitable explanation of that…
I did find an article explaining that you can be monogamous and STILL end up with HPV.
They cannot test properly for it and they have o F’ing idea how we can get exposed.
The article said men aren’t tested; although they can be carriers or can contract it.
When did this BS ever make any sense?
Maz – That was a genius response from you to be fair. Lol, I can only imagine the doctor’s face haha 😃 Take a bow! 👏 🙌
Happy Holidays Everyone!
Sue XO
Thank you Sue. Here’s to a New Year of evidence-based enlightenment, crashing attendance figures and informed consent!
Yes, happy Christmas everyone.
See you back here in 2019
Ada, I second that…that would be a great New Year!
Hi Ada,
Yes, I quoted data protection in the second letter to my GP in August 2017, telling them that they were in breach of it as I’d informed them previously I was opting out, but I’ve received a further 3 invites since then. However, when I made my complaint by email to PCSE mid-November this year, I quoted data protection again and within days I received a disclaimer letter to send back. They sent another one a week later for some reason so I sent them both back. They are supposed to be writing back to confirm when they have removed my name from the list, but as mentioned above, this week I’ve received the same letter/disclaimer again. No idea what’s going on. If I receive another standard invitation letter I will seriously consider making a complaint under the GDPR.
They think that patients don’t know their rights, and that any old letter will do. CarolineBBlog saw a letter posted on twitter recently that simply told the woman to book an appointment. No mention of choice. Not all GP surgeries are using the NHS template (they don’t have to), and they are making up their own letters to send to people, usually done by someone with no GDPR training or awareness. That’s what gets me about the UK programme. The test is far from clear, but it’s all rolled out with those in the front line on the lowest pay and grade with the most basic knowledge. They don’t really know what they are doing and the public end up being treated like cattle.
I take it the letter is sent by the “screening authority” in the first instance. That one is the one that mentions “choice” I think.
My female relatives receive a very patronising letter from the surgery along the lines of, “as you’re aware, it’s now time for your cervical screening test. Please book an appointment”, sort of thing.
They don’t go but they haven’t formally opted out like I have, so I don’t receive these pestering letters.
We are really missing a trick with the GDPR. Let’s do what they’ve been doing to “non-compliant” women over the years and use the threat of a GDPR complaint.
The one I saw appeared to be a personalised letter directly from Dalefield Surgery and was a chaser because the lady in question hadn’t replied to her initial invite. The lady is disabled and cannot get on the bed for the test which has sparked a Go Fund Me for what I’m not 100% sure.
The letter is literally a summons saying you haven’t replied, smear tests save lives and you need to call to book. No mention of choice or opting out at all. It’s disgraceful.
I was sad to hear that Lisa Schwartz passed away from cancer in late November.
Lisa was married to Steven Woloshin, they worked together at Dartmouth along with Gilbert Welch, Lisa and Steven wrote “Know your chances” and “Overdiagnosed”…along with lots of articles.
I sent an email to Dartmouth a few years back, thanking them for their work and hoping they might also critically review cervical screening. (which always seems to dodge close scrutiny)
I was surprised to receive an email from Lisa, updating me on their research projects.
Lisa is in my medical hall of fame, i’m so grateful to Lisa and the Dartmouth team for their critical analysis of cancer screening and the increasing medicalisation of our lives.
Lisa has left a lasting legacy…
That’s very sad. Thanks for telling us about this wise lady. A shame she is hardly known in UK. It is always sad when someone of this calibre dies young, and she has pre-deceased her mother too. Just like Petr Skrabanek who died at only 53, it leaves the voices of common sense very quiet against the “preventive medicine” brigade. It makes you think what they could have achieved had they lived to a good age.
Uk ladies daily mirror today government looking at lowering smear age to 18 after death of latest young woman
Ah, another ‘debate’ triggered by yet another misguided petition. The evidence against screening young women is clear. These political debates rarely achieve anything, they’re just publicity stunts.
I had one young lady on Twitter, claimed she worked in the NHS looking at research and said there is a load of evidence the age should be lowered. Bizarrely though she couldn’t point me to any of said evidence other than her friend had been “been through it”. I sincerely hope she’s not really an NHS research professional with reasoning abilities like that!
While the death is obviously sad I personally think it’s just another excuse for charities and pro-screeners to whip women up into a frenzy, right before the big money maker that’s the smear for smear campaign *vomit*
From my experience she probably really is an NHS research professional with reasoning abilities like that.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29649936
Hi Kat,
I noticed this came out recently from the “women are brainless” school of screening attitudes at UCL recently. Is it the survey you took part in?
Hi Ada yes I really think it was….
Just looked at this abstract for the first time. Interesting that they concluded that most women who actively decline screening do so because they feel that it is of low relevance to them (sounds suspiciously like having assessed their individual risk profile to me), and have more important things to worry about (code name for, not buying the BS that the NHS peddles). What’s more, 70% are interested in self-testing. So, there you have it. Contradicts Mr Music’s little soundbite about a nation full of ignorant, uninformed, embarrassed women doesn’t it?!
What infuriates me about all of these papers (and this group do this all the time), is that they start from the wrong starting point. Nearly all of them start off by saying that this test saves 5,000 lives per year. OK, they’ve started adding more couched terms like “up to, estimated to” in front of this number, but this has long since been shown to be much less than this, and a recent paper suggested the figure was more about 1700 women. So at the outset they are suggesting that those women who do decline are taking a huge risk when they are not.
The other thing is that they claim that women who don’t attend are lacking information, knowledge, when we know that policy is deliberately to underinform women of harms and risks because they can terrorise them into going with Project Smear Fear. They always use the bottom line that any attendee is fully informed and understanding if they attend, when often it’s the most ardent supporters who don’t understand the test at all.
Do you know what would make a great survey/study? One that looks at the risks and harms of screening. It would be interesting to see how many women even know there are any and if pro-screening women actually believe them when presented with them in a factual way with evidence and data.
I can’t see anyone doing said survey but it would be a hugely interesting read I’m sure.
I’d love to see the actual statistics for this, but you will never see them published and the public allowed to know. How many babies died from preterm birth due to cervical procedures, or survived but with long term health issues due to prematurity? Another woman tweeted on twitter that she had to have c-sections because of cervical “treatments” preventing her cervix frpm opening, but never questioned the cervical treatments at all. So c-sections are another cost to screening treatments. Everywhere I read, preterm births are going up. This cost must be added to the programme.
Yet their conclusions don’t seem to support their pre-conceived notions of ignorant, uninformed women declining on the basis that they are uninformed and ignorant! The conclusion that these women actively decline because they perceive that the test is of low relevance to them suggests that these women have at the very least, assessed their risk levels! Oh dear…..
The NHS only needs to look at the old Australian program, we screened women from late teens, some GPs even screened girls under the age of 17, don’t know how many but when they were doing research comparing Gardasil records with pap testing records, it was mentioned that some girls were tested before age 17…and it was also mentioned that they shouldn’t have been tested, they were too young.
Of course, we know that before 30 is too young – we know cervical screening does not help up to age 30 and now we know that only HPV+ women aged 30 to 60 have a small chance of benefiting from a 5 yearly Pap test.
Early pap testing simply puts young women through an unnecessary test that carries a lot of risk, those under 25 produce a lot of false positives and that can mean biopsies and over-treatment, it can mean a damaged cervix before you’re 25 or 30. Serious stuff…
As it is, we do HPV testing from age 25 even though the evidence is clear, no HPV testing before 30. I think they feared a revolt from some women if testing moved from teens to 30.
Lots of our young women would have produced “abnormal” results and been referred, in other words, false positives, most of them don’t understand that, they think something was “caught”…so our “survivors” would have been more vocal with a move to start screening at age 30.
When you’ve practiced excess for decades and urged women not to miss their 2 yearly test, it’s hard to suddenly change course.
Thankfully, there’s been little push back here, we’ve finally pushed testing (HPV) to age 25, but I still read the odd comment from a GP complaining that it’s too late, that some girls are sexually active at 14, they just don’t get it…
Testing under 18s is criminal. Should be a bl***y offence.